Guild Wars 2

I’m hopeful that the specialization system brings back a lot of the feel of customization that I miss so much from GW1, but if there is just a single specialization added per class to start it seems like too little.

A single specialization per class isn’t any choice, it’s a single path to try. I realize the plan is to add more specializations as they go but for a specialization system to feel like you have any choice (and they said in an interview that it’s to feel more like a second profession) that each class should have at least 2 specializations to choose from to start.

For me the thing most lacking in GW2 has been individuality and the specializations will bring some of that to the game – provided there are actual choices, not just 1 path. I don’t see a great deal of sense of launching the feature with only 1 choice available per class.

In some regards, I’m beginning to think that “specialization” is a poor word choice for ArenaNet’s new system.

From what has been revealed so far, “specializations” are less about specializing in “one path” and more about unlocking (account wide) and choosing an alternative path for your profession. It’s not really a single path to try. That’s what they mean by second profession and not that your specialization is your second profession in addition to your original.

The option, for example, is between playing a Ranger and a Druid. If there were two specializations, then the choice would be between a Ranger, a Druid, and a third sub-class. Given that specializations unlock new elites, heals, utilities, and other skills, then it seems like a bit much to expect two specializations per profession at the outset. That is a lot to balance.

If going into a specialization loses you something from the base profession, such as losing a certain category of skills (f.e. Traps) and a trait line, than the base class is also a specialization in it’s own way.

I’ve typed this way too much this week but…

They said they’re going to use the system to add more skills etc into the game in time, so this is going to be the first run of specialisations and once they’re happy that the system works and they can roll out more specialisations in time.

it depends on how specializations are implemented in relation to the base profession.

for example, if you have to sacrifice enough mechanics/skills/traits/weapons in favor of the new ones, then you could say that we only had a single specialization until now, and now we’ll be able to choose between the one we already had and a new one (and later, future ones).

of course, this is just conjecture, though it is what i expect will happen, based on what little information we have. otherwise there would be no point in ever being a “pure ranger” again.

From what they’ve said, that you can swap from one specialization to another anytime you’re not in combat, it sounds more akin to GW1 where you could swap your build (and change of secondary class) anytime you were out of combat, but with balance being far easier to maintain than in GW1, since they control exactly what weapon skills are on your bar (since you get whatever skills they balance for each weapon) and the limited utility/heal/elite options they will give as well.

Since in an interview Colin said;

Colin: We’re really trying to make it feel like it’s almost a sub-profession or a secondary profession if you will, and not just a new set of a couple of skills.

That sounds like being able to have multiple builds was in GW1, but with more control for their balancing.

So to me, being granted the ability to make choices, but only have a single choice, doesn’t make that much sense. Telling me I will have all sorts of options, but only having 1 to choose from is pretty weak.

2 Choices is at least A choice to make. And more to come, but a single option isn’t a choice…

Egg Shennn.6240:

From what they’ve said, that you can swap from one specialization to another anytime you’re not in combat, it sounds more akin to GW1 where you could swap your build (and change of secondary class) anytime you were out of combat, but with balance being far easier to maintain than in GW1, since they control exactly what weapon skills are on your bar (since you get whatever skills they balance for each weapon) and the limited utility/heal/elite options they will give as well.

Since in an interview Colin said;

Colin: We’re really trying to make it feel like it’s almost a sub-profession or a secondary profession if you will, and not just a new set of a couple of skills.

That sounds like being able to have multiple builds was in GW1, but with more control for their balancing.

So to me, being granted the ability to make choices, but only have a single choice, doesn’t make that much sense. Telling me I will have all sorts of options, but only having 1 to choose from is pretty weak.

2 Choices is at least A choice to make. And more to come, but a single option isn’t a choice…

well like i said, if they do this right, the other choice would be to not specialize at all.

You don’t have a single choice. You have two: do you want to play as a pure ranger or as a druid? That’s a choice. It’s not between Specialization A or Specialization B.

Within those choices are further choices that you will have to make: weapons, skills, traits, equipment, etc. How will I build my ranger? How will I build my druid? What skills do I get with druid that I don’t get with the ranger? What skills do I get with the ranger that I don’t get with the druid? Yes, this entails “all sorts of options” for you to choose.

Genesis.8572:

You don’t have a single choice. You have two: do you want to play as a pure ranger or as a druid? That’s a choice. It’s not between Specialization A or Specialization B.

Within those choices are further choices that you will have to make: weapons, skills, traits, equipment, etc. How will I build my ranger? How will I build my druid? What skills do I get with druid that I don’t get with the ranger? What skills do I get with the ranger that I don’t get with the druid? Yes, this entails “all sorts of options” for you to choose.

Yup, and the lovely probability that they’ll add even more specialisations with more choice, more builds and more enjoyment for everyone.

Genesis.8572:

In some regards, I’m beginning to think that “specialization” is a poor word choice for ArenaNet’s new system.

From what has been revealed so far, “specializations” are less about specializing in “one path” and more about unlocking (account wide) and choosing an alternative path for your profession. It’s not really a single path to try. That’s what they mean by second profession and not that your specialization is your second profession in addition to your original.

The option, for example, is between playing a Ranger and a Druid. If there were two specializations, then the choice would be between a Ranger, a Druid, and a third sub-class. Given that specializations unlock new elites, heals, utilities, and other skills, then it seems like a bit much to expect two specializations per profession at the outset. That is a lot to balance.

Nah I think they were clear. Specializations deal with branching out the parent class I to new play styles. Ranger and Druid are two different Specializations for the same parent class which is Ranger

There will be more than one specialization per class. No neeed to worry.

ArenaNet handled the whole thing in a very bad way.

The term Specialization suggests multiple paths to choose. While that may be true in the long run, it isn’t for HoT.
People heard “Specialization” and started to imagine, as this is a very creative community.
This whole confusion could have been prevented if they said it directly at the announcement: “We’ll introduce a new system called Specializations. For HoT it will start with just one path per profession to choose, but we’re planning to expand on that system in the future.”

tekfan.3179:

This whole confusion could have been prevented if they said it directly at the announcement: “We’ll introduce a new system called Specializations. For HoT it will start with just one path per profession to choose, but we’re planning to expand on that system in the future.”

at 44:13

“will allow each profession to master a new specialisation” Singular, not plural. I disagree that using the word ‘specialisation’ implies multiple of them, using ‘specialisations’ would have.

And whilst they probably should have stated their plan to add more specialisations in future during the announcement, they did mention it in one or more of the interviews they did.

http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-interview/#page-2 “It’s also laying a permanent groundwork for us that we can use to expand and build on in the future, and that’s a common theme with everything you’re going to find in this expansion. Every decision we made, and the entire reason we made this expansion, was so that when this expansion releases we have the framework. We have the pillars we need so that we can regularly grow the game in the future. Specialisations is one of the key components of that.”

And do we want this expansion to come out this year or the next year thats all im saying about this

If specializations will introduce as extensive a change to the playstyle of a single class as ANet claims, then the effort it will take to balance it for PvP/WvW will probably be comparable to balancing a new class.

Sounds like a quantity vs. quality issue here. Either we can be drip fed a single, well developed specialization at a time or have a whole slew of shallow specializations that are “just a new set of a couple of skills.”

tekfan.3179:

ArenaNet handled the whole thing in a very bad way.

The term Specialization suggests multiple paths to choose. While that may be true in the long run, it isn’t for HoT.
People heard “Specialization” and started to imagine, as this is a very creative community.
This whole confusion could have been prevented if they said it directly at the announcement: “We’ll introduce a new system called Specializations. For HoT it will start with just one path per profession to choose, but we’re planning to expand on that system in the future.”

Exactly, that’s how they should have portrayed it.

The “you’ll be able to swap specializations anytime out of combat” makes it sound like there would actually be specializations to swap between. You can be the master class – Ranger, OR the specialization – Druid. Can’t be a druid without being a ranger. But there’s no other specialization to swap between. So for “swapping between specializations” you could go from Druid specialization to… Druid specialization! It’s a multiple choice question with the same answer on every choice…

It sounds like it will be great once there are actually options, but at the outset with one specialization to “swap between” it’s not impressive. A great groundwork, but hard to be excited over 1 choice.

Egg Shennn.6240:

tekfan.3179:

ArenaNet handled the whole thing in a very bad way.

The term Specialization suggests multiple paths to choose. While that may be true in the long run, it isn’t for HoT.
People heard “Specialization” and started to imagine, as this is a very creative community.
This whole confusion could have been prevented if they said it directly at the announcement: “We’ll introduce a new system called Specializations. For HoT it will start with just one path per profession to choose, but we’re planning to expand on that system in the future.”

Exactly, that’s how they should have portrayed it.

The “you’ll be able to swap specializations anytime out of combat” makes it sound like there would actually be specializations to swap between. You can be the master class – Ranger, OR the specialization – Druid. Can’t be a druid without being a ranger. But there’s no other specialization to swap between. So for “swapping between specializations” you could go from Druid specialization to… Druid specialization! It’s a multiple choice question with the same answer on every choice…

It sounds like it will be great once there are actually options, but at the outset with one specialization to “swap between” it’s not impressive. A great groundwork, but hard to be excited over 1 choice.

Or as they inteded you can go from druid back to ranger 2 choices.
As other have stated druid wont be all ranger and a bonus druid, you will lose something for specializing in druid hence you can go back and regain what you lost and not be able to have druid things

I don’t understand why people keep getting hung up on this topic. When you actually sit down and think about it, it makes perfect sense. The specialization is a choice you make. Do you want to give up one set of skills to unlock a different set, thus changing your class? It’s not a straight upgrade. It’s a choice between one base class and one “specialized” class. And obviously in the future they will add more specializations.

Anet can’t just add a multitude of specializations in one go. There will be 9 classes in HoT, each one with a multitude of skills and traits. On top of that each one will have a specialization which introduces further skills and traits into the mix. The number 1 problem with GW1 skill system was how bloated it got and how hard it was to balance. Anet doesn’t want to repeat that in GW2. They will slowly add a few skills and traits at a time to make sure things don’t get too crazy.

Anet is trying to try something new and they don’t want to put all their development time into one basket.

I agree. With only one option, its less specialization and more morphing or evolving. Literal definitions aside, while I appreciate an increase in diversity, only one option seems rather narrow/inhibiting to what specialization could actually be. Two seems to be the correct number regarding cost efficiency/game advancement ratios. Only one feels like filler.

Rialen.1524:

I agree. With only one option, its less specialization and more morphing or evolving. Literal definitions aside, while I appreciate an increase in diversity, only one option seems rather narrow/inhibiting to what specialization could actually be. Two seems to be the correct number regarding cost efficiency/game advancement ratios. Only one feels like filler.

Just a tip read the 2 posts starting 2 posts above your own and think on what they say bud

It’ll eventually be multiple paths. That’s what the whole idea is about. Right now there’ll be one. Later on more will be added.

Vayne.8563:

It’ll eventually be multiple paths. That’s what the whole idea is about. Right now there’ll be one. Later on more will be added.

Yes, eventually it should be a great plan, alot like secondary profession options gave you in GW1, but after just shy of 3 years from the initial launch, getting the 1 specialization for each class feels weak to me. And I was a huge GW1 fan, played it right up till GW2 finally arrived. GW2 was lacking at the outset to grab me the way GW1 did (lack of individuality in builds) so this finally being added to the game is huge to me, but like I said, starting with a single specialization isn’t much of a choice to swap between. Stay as you are or have this one option? That’s limited choice, though better than the current no choice…

2 years from now it’ll probably be great…

Egg Shennn.6240:

Vayne.8563:

It’ll eventually be multiple paths. That’s what the whole idea is about. Right now there’ll be one. Later on more will be added.

Yes, eventually it should be a great plan, alot like secondary profession options gave you in GW1, but after just shy of 3 years from the initial launch, getting the 1 specialization for each class feels weak to me. And I was a huge GW1 fan, played it right up till GW2 finally arrived. GW2 was lacking at the outset to grab me the way GW1 did (lack of individuality in builds) so this finally being added to the game is huge to me, but like I said, starting with a single specialization isn’t much of a choice to swap between. Stay as you are or have this one option? That’s limited choice, though better than the current no choice…

2 years from now it’ll probably be great…

It doesn’t feel weak to me. New expansion, new profession, a new way to play eight different professions, all with new elites and healing skills and utility skills and traits? Maybe you think it won’t take a year to balance it?

While it was be lovely to have more specializations, it’s not realistic. Even if each specialization only adds have a profession, that’s still five professions in the expansion, not counting the masteries which also affect balance.

You can add stuff too quickly.

And they don’t have to wait for an expansion to add another one once the functionality is in.

“Paths” would have been a better name for the system.

Egg Shennn.6240:

Vayne.8563:

It’ll eventually be multiple paths. That’s what the whole idea is about. Right now there’ll be one. Later on more will be added.

Yes, eventually it should be a great plan, alot like secondary profession options gave you in GW1, but after just shy of 3 years from the initial launch, getting the 1 specialization for each class feels weak to me. And I was a huge GW1 fan, played it right up till GW2 finally arrived. GW2 was lacking at the outset to grab me the way GW1 did (lack of individuality in builds) so this finally being added to the game is huge to me, but like I said, starting with a single specialization isn’t much of a choice to swap between. Stay as you are or have this one option? That’s limited choice, though better than the current no choice…

2 years from now it’ll probably be great…

In one ear and out the other with you, eh? They could have just as easily only added new skills and skipped the “specializations” all together. Would you be complaining then? Probably.

I for one am excited to see what new direction I’ll be able to take my warrior in. Will I have to give up the ability to use war horns in order to use, shall we say, a pistol? Sounds awesome to me.

Plus we know so little about everything this is all completely speculation.

Genesis.8572:

You don’t have a single choice. You have two: do you want to play as a pure ranger or as a druid? That’s a choice. It’s not between Specialization A or Specialization B.

That’s not a choice, unless they plan to add ranger specific elite, heal and skills that will become available to you when you “choose” to not become a druid. In any other scenario it’s you either go with the new thing and enjoy the new hotness or stay with the old and be grumpy. Not much of a choice there, is it?

Besides, if the choice was ranger or druid, they should allow for that from lvl 1. If I want to play a druid then give me access to my skills from lvl 1, don’t force me to endure 80lvs of ranger just to be a druid. Doesn’t make sense.

And let’s not forget that the specialization will bring A new elite skill, A new healing spell and SOME new skills. At least that’s what they’ve said so far. Let’s not make that one elite into many as some of you guys are doing. Keep your expectations real and low otherwise only disappointment awaits. I should know, i was expecting an underwater zone, a new race, and separate buidls for pve, underwater, wvw and pvp…

Silly A-Net, saying they want to increase build diversity by only adding one subclass per character.

nikdik.1934:

Silly A-Net, saying they want to increase build diversity by only adding one subclass per character.

One per class at the launch of HoT. It takes time to balance new skills and traits, I’d much rather they add 1 specialisation per class that has been tested thoroughly than have them add 2-3 less tested specialisations that will require weeks of patches to balance.

We don’t even know if we’re going to be waiting long for the second lot of specialisations, they could have some nearly ready that they could release a fortnight or a month after HoTs release.

^ What psizone said. There is a LOT of balance to be considered in what is essentially adding 8 new sub-professions. There will be more than one specialisation, however as OP has already recognised, these will arrive intermittently with future updates.

PorceleinEve.2973:

That’s not a choice, unless they plan to add ranger specific elite, heal and skills that will become available to you when you “choose” to not become a druid. In any other scenario it’s you either go with the new thing and enjoy the new hotness or stay with the old and be grumpy. Not much of a choice there, is it?

Besides, if the choice was ranger or druid, they should allow for that from lvl 1. If I want to play a druid then give me access to my skills from lvl 1, don’t force me to endure 80lvs of ranger just to be a druid. Doesn’t make sense.

It is a choice if you’re losing useful skills, elites and traits from the Ranger line if you choose to be a Druid. For example, BM bunker rangers may wish to stay a Ranger if they risk losing BM traits and skills or even their pet by specialising as a Druid.

And to be fair, you don’t get access to many skills and especially traits until you hit level 80 as a Ranger in the first place, and I don’t think they’ve announced if you have to be level 80 to be a Druid, just that you have to learn it from someone in the jungle.

They already said that when you specialized you get some new stuff, but you also lose some of your old stuff. So its like if there would be 2 specialistion when HoT will be released. Ranger or Druid will be your choice.

They also said that they plan on releasing more specialisations over time.

I have no problem with specializations as long as they compliment the profession instead of “insult” it.

psizone.8437:

It is a choice if you’re losing useful skills, elites and traits from the Ranger line if you choose to be a Druid. For example, BM bunker rangers may wish to stay a Ranger if they risk losing BM traits and skills or even their pet by specialising as a Druid.

And to be fair, you don’t get access to many skills and especially traits until you hit level 80 as a Ranger in the first place, and I don’t think they’ve announced if you have to be level 80 to be a Druid, just that you have to learn it from someone in the jungle.

I don’t think you understand what folks mean when they say no choice. For many, myself included, choice isn’t you either lose something you already have for something else, or you keep what you have and kitten off. Technically sure that’s a choice. But when folks refer to choosing they mean choosing between 2 NEW options. We’re not choosing like that though. We’re offered an “alternative” path, that takes away from the base class, or no alternative at all other than the base class. Do you understand now what ppl mean by the “no choice” argument?

There is no choice, not an actual one. Just an extra option with a cost and that’s it. As a said, an actual choice (and not the artificial one you feel is a choice) would be between Druid and Ranger+. To put it differently you’re not building on what you already have, you’re either replacing one bit with something else, or not. That “or not” bit, for me isn’t a meaningfull choice, just something artificial to trick you into thinking that you’re choosing something. “An expansion came out, and i -chose- to keep the same skills i’ve had for 3 years now, ain’t anet amazing for giving me this -choice-?”

It wouldn’t be much of an alternative advancement method if they didn’t force that 80 lvl grind would it? realistically speaking, don’t hold your breath. At best you’ll get a new elite, a new heal skill, some other utility skills and a new weapon and in exchange you’ll lose your class mechanic specific trait line and have it replaced with a new one fitting with the specialization theme/mechanic. And that’s about it. I would much prefer them to just flat out give everyone their new trait line, and add skills to the class, than what they’re doing now. It screams from miles away that it’s an artificial choice, masterfully implemented and sold on the promise of “don’t worry, we’ll add more later, trust us”. Feels very lazy to me, very much reminds me of the promise that they’ll slowly add new skills in the game as time goes by and all we’ve gotten was a new heal skill. Do we really have any reason at all, to believe that they’ll behave otherwise in the future, other than our own wishful thinking about how things will turn out?

PorceleinEve.2973:

I don’t think you understand what folks mean when they say no choice. For many, myself included, choice isn’t you either lose something you already have for something else, or you keep what you have and kitten off. Technically sure that’s a choice. But when folks refer to choosing they mean choosing between 2 NEW options.

That’s just a human reaction and not a great one. We always want more and that’s normal, but it can be a pain in the kitten . Ppl never want nerf, they always want buff even if a nerf would be better in some situation. Its the same, you said it yourself.

Ppl would rather have a choice between Ranger+ or Druid. Not Ranger or Druid. What will happen when they gonna add another specialisation. They gonna ask between Ranger++, Druid+ and Spirit Master?.

What will happen when they realease another specialisation. Ranger+++, Druid++, Spirit Master+ and Warden? You see that it’s becoming stupid rather quickly. I understand what you mean and the reason behind ppl wanting always more and only more. That doesn’t mean that its a good instinct in the long run. Adding stuff just for the sake of adding stuff only make balancing harder, which will make the game less good overall. They will already have to balance 1 profession and 9 specialization, they don’t need to screw everything they worked for balancing the current 8 professions.

Thaddeus.4891:

Ppl would rather have a choice between Ranger+ or Druid. Not Ranger or Druid. What will happen when they gonna add another specialisation. They gonna ask between Ranger++, Druid+ and Spirit Master?.

As far as i’m concerned yeaps thats what should happen. And if they think they can’t handle it, then they shouldn’t do it. An expansion expands. We’re not really expanding here are? If it is too much trouble for them, make druid a new class and be done with it. There, suddenly everyone is super happy. All classes get new skills and we get 2 or 3 new classes now (former specializations). Everyone and their cat would wet their pants over that. And nobody would notice that there’s a new race that’s missing…

Or, they could offer now, base class ranger, spec 1 druid, spec 2 warden and later on with another expansion (i don’t have delusions that they’ll add anything other than story in the form of lw stuff in between) spec 3 and spec 4. There, everyone would be happy with this also.

What most folk aren’t happy with is what we get now. Which isn’t a choice at all as far as i’m concerned.

As for the whole, “people always want more argument”, i find it unconvincing. “We’re not gonna give you anything cause you’ll always want more”. They could have said that and not come out with an expansion at all. but the fact is the game becomes better exactly because people always want more. That’s why we’re getting an expansion. Cause we’ve been asking for more, and they felt they needed to give it to us. And if we ever gonna get anything out of them it’s only by constantly asking for more. Not by accepting whatever bone they throw at us. We shouldn’t protect them from criticism at all. We should hold them to a high standard and expect the very best of them. They’re not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. They’re selling us something and they expect us to pay for it.

Anyways that’s my 2c…

PorceleinEve.2973:

We’re not really expanding here are? If it is too much trouble for them, make druid a new class and be done with it.

Before HoT. You are ranger. After HoT, you are either ranger or druid. Maybe that’s not enough expanding for you, but are you really saying that there isn’t any expanding here?

Although I’d like and expect more than one Specialization, it is not needed to still make the term make sense. As long as you lose something from the main class (traitline, skills, mechanic, etc.) in order to gain something from your Specialization, then it makes sense. When you Specialize, it implies that your studies are intense in one area, and therefore other areas are neglected. Losing something from the core profession fills this definition nicely, even if there is only just one Specialization path at first. Basically your choices then are Generalist, or Specialist.

Thaddeus.4891:

Before HoT. You are ranger. After HoT, you are either ranger or druid. Maybe that’s not enough expanding for you, but are you really saying that there isn’t any expanding here?

Before HoT i was a ranger. After hot i can be either what i was before, or lose part of what i had in exchange for something else. I don’t consider that expanding yes. It feels like this: Imagine i could offer you the ability to fly as a human. You say great, let me have it i wanna soar up the skies. I reply, no problem buddy, now, let me just remove your arms and legs and we’re done. Would you consider yourself expanded then? Cause I would not. Technically i offered you 2 choices. You can either continue to use your arms and legs, or you can now fly armless and legless. I, personally, wouldn’t consider this “expanding” my abilities as a person, nor would i consider it a choice. It’s totally matter of perception I guess. Just be happy you’re on the side that finds the choice offered enough. And not on the other one.

PorceleinEve.2973:

. It feels like this: Imagine i could offer you the ability to fly as a human. You say great, let me have it i wanna soar up the skies. I reply, no problem buddy, now, let me just remove your arms and legs and we’re done. Would you consider yourself expanded then?

The choice are expanded, the diversity is expanded. Let me see the other way around.

I have a build with AH and Pure of Voice on my WvW guardian. But I want Indomitable Courage too. What do I do, I make a choice. I can’t have both so I have to make a decision, what will be the best choice for me. What can I sacrifice and what is worth that sacrifice.

You can see expanding as expanding your capabilities or expanding your choice. I prefer the second one, its more engaging for me. But that’s just my 2cents

Thaddeus.4891:

You can see expanding as expanding your capabilities or expanding your choice. I prefer the second one, its more engaging for me. But that’s just my 2cents

Clearly i’m on the capabilities camp here. As I said be happy you’re not.

And since we’re asking for stuff, gief huge underwater zone, pvp, pve, wvw, and underwater speck tabs so we can have different skills and traits for each. gief new race, improved and updated personal story, new race personal story and 4 new race exclusive zones to lvl before hitting tyria proper, give updated orr zones, trahearn “healed” the land, it’s time we see some greenery there, also gief trahearn as a super evil mordremoth lakey who didn’t heal orr after all and make orr mordre infested, then gief the ability to kill trahearn, gief lvl cap increase, gief less wps more flavourfull means of transportation, gief new dungeons, update the old ones, more fractals, more mini games, more new maps cause we’ll end up hating plants before the expansion is over. also give some blacksmith in tyria the idea to make a really big axe that he’ll need both hands to use and see what happens… off the top of my head

PorceleinEve.2973:

Thaddeus.4891:

Before HoT. You are ranger. After HoT, you are either ranger or druid. Maybe that’s not enough expanding for you, but are you really saying that there isn’t any expanding here?

Before HoT i was a ranger. After hot i can be either what i was before, or lose part of what i had in exchange for something else. I don’t consider that expanding yes. It feels like this: Imagine i could offer you the ability to fly as a human. You say great, let me have it i wanna soar up the skies. I reply, no problem buddy, now, let me just remove your arms and legs and we’re done. Would you consider yourself expanded then? Cause I would not. Technically i offered you 2 choices. You can either continue to use your arms and legs, or you can now fly armless and legless. I, personally, wouldn’t consider this “expanding” my abilities as a person, nor would i consider it a choice. It’s totally matter of perception I guess. Just be happy you’re on the side that finds the choice offered enough. And not on the other one.

If you could freely choose between having wings or limbs, sure, expanding. That’s why it’s a choice to specialize and not a pigeon hole. Let’s say they gave us two specialties: Druid and Spirit Master, both have everything Ranger+more. Would this not, instead, limit your choice by forcing you to either specialize or get left behind? That’d be unwanted vertical progress when many[won’t speak for majority, but at least I and others] prefer the horizontal progression ANet’s doing with “Ranger or Druid”[Like saying that adding a new profession isn’t expanding gameplay because you can’t be the Revenant AND the Ranger at the same time]. We level, we get to 80, we get to decide what we want to be between two choices. And we can assume that ANet will have a greater ease adding them[specializations] from the initial 2 paths of each profession.

hoT is (hopefully) the first of many expansions. If they released every idea they have in one go.. what would they put into say.. “Gw2: Desert Wastes” or “gw2: The Far Shiverpeaks”?

Not to mention we’d be lucky to get HoT before 2050..

Those titles probably need some work mind you :P

PorceleinEve.2973:

I don’t think you understand what folks mean when they say no choice. For many, myself included, choice isn’t you either lose something you already have for something else, or you keep what you have and kitten off. Technically sure that’s a choice. But when folks refer to choosing they mean choosing between 2 NEW options. We’re not choosing like that though. We’re offered an “alternative” path, that takes away from the base class, or no alternative at all other than the base class. Do you understand now what ppl mean by the “no choice” argument?

There is no choice, not an actual one. Just an extra option with a cost and that’s it.

I knew exactly what people meant, I was pointing out that regardless of that point of view, it’s as you stated at the bit I put in bold. Regardless of how people, that staying the same isn’t a choice, it really is. An extra option with a cost means it may not be worth using that extra option for some players/builds, so it’s a choice to stay Ranger, you’re not forced into it.

Saying there’s no choice is different to saying “I’d have rather had 2 new specialisations for MORE choice”

PorceleinEve.2973:

Technically i offered you 2 choices. You can either continue to use your arms and legs, or you can now fly armless and legless. I, personally, wouldn’t consider this “expanding” my abilities as a person, nor would i consider it a choice. It’s totally matter of perception I guess. Just be happy you’re on the side that finds the choice offered enough. And not on the other one.

You mean you wouldn’t consider that a choice worth making, not that it isn’t a choice, you’re contradicting yourself. I’d imagine a great many people would give up the use of their arms and legs for the ability to fly.

Personal views does not discount something as a choice, it only disregards it as a choice you would make.

psizone is completely right.
Also, to me, the people saying 1 specialization isn’t enough is just whining, and lame whining at that. It very much is a choice whether you can understand that or not. The druid will offer a playstyle that ranger does not already cover. Not a necessity, just a nice touch

I’d note that you don’t have to choose just Ranger or just Druid. You can swap back and forth out of combat (hopefully for free, as with traits now). So you are nearly moment to moment choosing between the two setups.

There’s Coca-Cola on the shelf. If I want a drink, I have the choice to drink it or not, but that choice does not really apply to our situation. Now the Powers-that-Be introduce a variant Coke on the shelf: Diet Coke. It’s a variant Coke, and now I have the choice between Coke and Diet Coke. Should I really be complaining that the Powers-that-Be did not introduce another Coke variant (e.g. Vanilla Coke or Coke Zero) in addition to Diet Coke? Would I only have a real choice if there were three varieties of Coke on the shelf instead of two when your previous option was Coke or Coke? That sounds like entitled whining.

People complaining that the introduction of only one new specialization per profession is not a choice do not recognize that that they are being faced with a choice. Playing the ranger is still a choice, even if it does not get any new bells or whistles. People may like playing the ranger better than the druid. People who disliked the ranger play style may like the new play style fostered by the druid.

But even then, it seems pointless to complain about the “lack” of choices because specializations are not permanent, but something, as we have been told, that you can switch out of as easily as changing traits. Either way, your options for playing a profession are expanding.

Whether each class get’s two specializations, or three, or not, you’re still gonna get one alternative path for each class. Which is pretty friggin’ sweet, if you’ll excuse my 90’s-ism.

psizone.8437:

You mean you wouldn’t consider that a choice worth making, not that it isn’t a choice, you’re contradicting yourself. I’d imagine a great many people would give up the use of their arms and legs for the ability to fly.

Personal views does not discount something as a choice, it only disregards it as a choice you would make.

A choice not worth making to me is no choice at all. I think we’ve already established that. It’s not contradicting myself, it’s using the language to convey what i have in mind.

Personal views do discount this choice for me. Yes? I do have that right do I not? And since here are the official forums, the place where I have the opportunity to express my opinion, I do. We’re not in a university or scholarly debate discussing the subject “objectively” against a fixed set of criteria. We’re just stating our views. I don’t get why all this nervousness that’s floating around

A Massive Headache.1879:

psizone is completely right.
Also, to me, the people saying 1 specialization isn’t enough is just whining, and lame whining at that. It very much is a choice whether you can understand that or not. The druid will offer a playstyle that ranger does not already cover. Not a necessity, just a nice touch

Well in the same light, the people saying 1 specilization is more than enough are just easily content and naive individuals without imagination, works both ways I guess… If choice in an of it self is the goal here, please by all means petition anet to remove weapon switching competely, then you’ll get to make the choice what weapon you’ll equip for your next fight, so as another poster said “you are nealry every moment to moment choosing” between your weapons. Wow, choice. Make engineer kits, “unique” only one can be on your utilities. More choice. Give elementalists 120 seconds on their stances. That way every 2 minutes they can make a choice. Choices, choices everywere.

Seriously though, let the people who don’t like something to not like it. And be glad that you do. You’ve already won. What are you afraid of? that anet will listen and add another specialization and omg the sky will fall?

Have a nice one guys