Guild Wars 2

^ couple options if you like GW2 but don’t like HOT maps:

1. Dont play HOT maps, theres 30 odd other maps and a metric ton of new content you can play.
2. Learn what other players do that allows them to steamroll content in HOT.

Usually though, when people say they are quiting because of [blame thing here] its just that they are bored of the game type and nothing will change that.

The base game makes a terrible job scaling the difficulty of the open world up until hot and since ppl wanted more challenge the hot maps ended up being harder. You said it your self “last night i gave zhaitan a beat down” thats not supposed to be the case its a god kitten elder dragon and it you litterally glitter it to death. I say hot does a nice job showing how dangerous should a jungle be and how devastating an elder dragon as well as his minions are.

I understand your frustration but its not the hot maps and story thats garbage its the core tyria that poorly balanced and overall facerol easy.

Djinn.9245:

Just to offset the kneejerk GW2 defenders, I want to support the OP (if he’s still reading) …..

OP, keep in mind that those who think there is no problem either think that because they are naturally good at playing / making their characters “meta”, or they have played the game so much that they became good. Not all GW2 players are in that same situation even if the “defenders” would have you believe it.

Ok, i can be called many things, but kneejerk gw2 defender is definitely not one of those. I ’ve criticized this game many times, and defended some things many other times.

The game does have different challenge tiers.

0 would be the open world. You can barely die there, if at all. Sometimes you go for a glass of water and BAM! next thing you know you are dead when you come back. kitten happens.

1 would be the vanilla personal story. I may have died there when levellling some classes, due to not properly knowing how to use the class, or being half asleep.

4 would be dungeons. The first time you do them they are really challenging. They can be very challenging too, if you run full glass cannon with a group of bad glass cannons. It’s kill before they whack you, and the open world doesn’t prepare you for this.

5 may be the personal HOT story. I don’t know, i did it with my necro and it was easy, but necro usually makes everything easy and reaper made it even easier, so i wouldn’t say it’s going to be easy for everybody.

6 is probably open world HOT. If you haven’t played dungeons and went from vanilla story to this, boy are you going to suffer. Even if you have some skill, you will learn that there are some fights that are not worth picking. Don’t fight that elite smokescale with your shortbow thief!

8 is fractals, the highest levels. People playing there forget how tough they are because they have played them so many times, but for a newbie high level fractals are a no no.

10 is sPVP. No matter how skilled you get, you end up being pitched against equally skilled players. PVP really forces you to learn how to master your class and then playing the rest of the game is just a matter of having the right tools for the job.

Note: i didn’t rate raids because my playing schedule makes it almost impossible to be logged long enough to form a group and actually get to try the content. I tried at launch, and after spending more hours waiting than playing, decided raids were not for me until my kids grow older and become independant.

Im sorry i have to laugh at so many of these comments talking about L2P.

As someone who has 28k + AP and got to lgendary in the PvP seasons and was ranked in the top 250 for NA and place in platinum in the end. I find most peoples comments to be a joke.

First off OP is right, Anet made the new mastery’s mandatory to play the new areas. They also made it to play certain builds and weapon sets more viable then others. When HOT first came out i couldnt do alot of the PvE things with my guild mates because i was in PvP. So there is a frustration factor involved.

Also let me add on the 2nd part, HOT is difficult to solo. It is not easy soloing the HP/SP and AB-TD-DS are all meta event maps. That by definition alone means they can not be solo. Please be the person on the dead map trying to organize a meta event and have 3 people in Ogre Lane. ( omg so much fun)

Heres a bigger factor the OP hit the nail in the head on. Population in the game. We are at a point with 3 daily maps, HOT areas that revolve around meta timers and people are defending a increased difficulty level?

Raids are not difficult, they are mechanic based and gear based. Fractals were not difficult, they were simply AR based. Dungeons were given up on.

I love gliding. The vertical maps are a great joy. This was truly unique and special. It has been 2 maps, blood stone fen and verdint brink. The other maps are simply for organized groups who love to farm.

The amount of people saying L2P is so laughable i actually started chuckling when you see 3-4-5 people say learn the class when really that isnt the issue.

Anet introduce HOT and it was less content then the original, less story, less dungeons/raids, made WvW and PvP worse, made PvE a spam fest as well as brought in more of a zerging mentality.

Its ok to say that HOT isnt for the OP because it wasnt for me either. But the L2P is straight 3 stooges gold here.

kdaddy.5431:

Im sorry i have to laugh at so many of these comments talking about L2P.

As someone who has 28k + AP and got to lgendary in the PvP seasons and was ranked in the top 250 for NA and place in platinum in the end. I find most peoples comments to be a joke.

First off OP is right, Anet made the new mastery’s mandatory to play the new areas. They also made it to play certain builds and weapon sets more viable then others. When HOT first came out i couldnt do alot of the PvE things with my guild mates because i was in PvP. So there is a frustration factor involved.

Also let me add on the 2nd part, HOT is difficult to solo. It is not easy soloing the HP/SP and AB-TD-DS are all meta event maps. That by definition alone means they can not be solo. Please be the person on the dead map trying to organize a meta event and have 3 people in Ogre Lane. ( omg so much fun)

Heres a bigger factor the OP hit the nail in the head on. Population in the game. We are at a point with 3 daily maps, HOT areas that revolve around meta timers and people are defending a increased difficulty level?

Raids are not difficult, they are mechanic based and gear based. Fractals were not difficult, they were simply AR based. Dungeons were given up on.

I love gliding. The vertical maps are a great joy. This was truly unique and special. It has been 2 maps, blood stone fen and verdint brink. The other maps are simply for organized groups who love to farm.

The amount of people saying L2P is so laughable i actually started chuckling when you see 3-4-5 people say learn the class when really that isnt the issue.

Anet introduce HOT and it was less content then the original, less story, less dungeons/raids, made WvW and PvP worse, made PvE a spam fest as well as brought in more of a zerging mentality.

Its ok to say that HOT isnt for the OP because it wasnt for me either. But the L2P is straight 3 stooges gold here.

And yet there are people walking around without your experience that need to learn to play. I’ve easily taught a dozen people, probably more, how to handle HOT.

Before I showed them they couldn’t do it and after I showed them they could. Some of them still post here, maybe they’ll swing by and back me up, but either way, it’s true.

Simple examples like people not realizing that they can range something if it’s too hard to melee, because they meleed everything in the open world. The idea that they sometimes have to dodge back and switch to range never occurred to them.

Or the mechanics of the Smokescale, which people die too quickly without ever learning it. They don’t realize you have to pull the smokescale out of it’s circle of smoke to kill it, because inside the circle of smoke it can’t be harmed.

That doesn’t mean people will never die. And it doesn’t mean you can solo every hero point, but just because you’re a good player doesn’t mean most of the playerbase is.

We’ve seen it time and time again, many people over many events that don’t have the basics of the game down. People who kill themselves when they have confusion. People who don’t know how to remove condition. People who knockback stuff away from melee guys.

Plenty of people can’t play the new zones at all. Some of us can solo 90% of it. That’s the difference.

4 tips before starting hot maps:
-Make sure you gear yourself in lvl 80 exotic at least (metabattle or other build sites will often promote berserker gear, however if you are having problems, looking into more tanky statsets wouldn’t hurt. To the build guys best dps is always the most viable, it may not be to you)
-Have at least 1 ranged weapon.
-Do Silverwastes/dungeons a few times before going into the new zones and practice.
-Do not start HoT until you give yourself at least 1 week doing the pre-hot endgame.

HoT is more challenging then base game, but the fact you are dieing so much in personal story instances means you are doing something very wrong, they are fairly easy if you are decently geared.

What you are doing is basicly get to the story end, do none of the actual base game endgame stuff(dungeons/fractals/orr map farming: these all give exotic gear or higher), do non of the endgame stuff leading up to HoT (silverwastes/drytop: gives you money to get exotic or higher), jump into hot and expect to faceroll as before. it simply does not work that way.

Fox.3469:

4 tips before starting hot maps:
-Make sure you gear yourself in lvl 80 exotic at least (metabattle or other build sites will often promote berserker gear, however if you are having problems, looking into more tanky statsets wouldn’t hurt. To the build guys best dps is always the most viable, it may not be to you)
-Have at least 1 ranged weapon.
-Do Silverwastes/dungeons a few times before going into the new zones and practice.
-Do not start HoT until you give yourself at least 1 week doing the pre-hot endgame.

HoT is more challenging then base game, but the fact you are dieing so much in personal story instances means you are doing something very wrong, they are fairly easy if you are decently geared.

What you are doing is basicly get to the story end, do none of the actual base game endgame stuff(dungeons/fractals/orr map farming: these all give exotic gear or higher), do non of the endgame stuff leading up to HoT (silverwastes/drytop: gives you money to get exotic or higher), jump into hot and expect to faceroll as before. it simply does not work that way.

So much this. I would personally add another tip to explore HoT arenas relatively easily: play a bit of PvP in hotjoin arenas

kdaddy.5431:

Im sorry i have to laugh at so many of these comments talking about L2P.

Since when did games devolve so badly that LEARNING to play them became such an unreasonable expectation with players?

Granted, the leveling experience does not sufficiently challenge people to learn their class and prepare them for HoT (or dungeons for that matter), but the idea that people should be able to scrub through the game and fail because they aren’t willing to learn is preposterous.

^^ they confuse ‘L2P’ forum style insulting with the real valid point that you do in fact need to learn to improve (indeed this is one of the things that makes games fun). Worse, some people do not want to learn, and would prefer to demand that instead of learning something, the world should change to match their personal view of the world exactly – and at any given time.

These people cannot comprehend that a monster (for e.g) in a mmorpg fighting 2 real people at the same time cannot match both players skill level – this is single player thinking, it is impossible in a mmorpg.

While I don’t agree with the op on HoT being too hard, I do agree with the layout and design of the HoT maps being terrible. The 3 tiered maps are not supported by the minimap system. I also find this happening in the Grove and Black Citadel. It can be quite frustrating.

Thank you Anet for Bitterfrost Frontier and the new map.

the issue is the minimap system then for those that dont want to learn routes ^^ I love the layered style of map, especially considering there’s another 30 plus maps that don’t have layering like that – choice is good yes?

Choice isn’t good when minimap doesn’t do its job. I don’t want Anet putting more maps in the game that the minimap doesn’t support.

Vayne.8563:

kdaddy.5431:

Im sorry i have to laugh at so many of these comments talking about L2P.

As someone who has 28k + AP and got to lgendary in the PvP seasons and was ranked in the top 250 for NA and place in platinum in the end. I find most peoples comments to be a joke.

First off OP is right, Anet made the new mastery’s mandatory to play the new areas. They also made it to play certain builds and weapon sets more viable then others. When HOT first came out i couldnt do alot of the PvE things with my guild mates because i was in PvP. So there is a frustration factor involved.

Also let me add on the 2nd part, HOT is difficult to solo. It is not easy soloing the HP/SP and AB-TD-DS are all meta event maps. That by definition alone means they can not be solo. Please be the person on the dead map trying to organize a meta event and have 3 people in Ogre Lane. ( omg so much fun)

Heres a bigger factor the OP hit the nail in the head on. Population in the game. We are at a point with 3 daily maps, HOT areas that revolve around meta timers and people are defending a increased difficulty level?

Raids are not difficult, they are mechanic based and gear based. Fractals were not difficult, they were simply AR based. Dungeons were given up on.

I love gliding. The vertical maps are a great joy. This was truly unique and special. It has been 2 maps, blood stone fen and verdint brink. The other maps are simply for organized groups who love to farm.

The amount of people saying L2P is so laughable i actually started chuckling when you see 3-4-5 people say learn the class when really that isnt the issue.

Anet introduce HOT and it was less content then the original, less story, less dungeons/raids, made WvW and PvP worse, made PvE a spam fest as well as brought in more of a zerging mentality.

Its ok to say that HOT isnt for the OP because it wasnt for me either. But the L2P is straight 3 stooges gold here.

And yet there are people walking around without your experience that need to learn to play. I’ve easily taught a dozen people, probably more, how to handle HOT.

Before I showed them they couldn’t do it and after I showed them they could. Some of them still post here, maybe they’ll swing by and back me up, but either way, it’s true.

Simple examples like people not realizing that they can range something if it’s too hard to melee, because they meleed everything in the open world. The idea that they sometimes have to dodge back and switch to range never occurred to them.

Or the mechanics of the Smokescale, which people die too quickly without ever learning it. They don’t realize you have to pull the smokescale out of it’s circle of smoke to kill it, because inside the circle of smoke it can’t be harmed.

That doesn’t mean people will never die. And it doesn’t mean you can solo every hero point, but just because you’re a good player doesn’t mean most of the playerbase is.

We’ve seen it time and time again, many people over many events that don’t have the basics of the game down. People who kill themselves when they have confusion. People who don’t know how to remove condition. People who knockback stuff away from melee guys.

Plenty of people can’t play the new zones at all. Some of us can solo 90% of it. That’s the difference.

What you are saying is fine when it comes to actual fighting mechanics but the OP of the thread is talking about fighting and losing and no one being around, bosses being too hard etc etc.

That is not what i discussed and what potentially the OP of the thread is talking about.

I don’t get that complaint … it’s no different if you are in Core GW2 … you die, no one is around so you just WP somewhere. Yup it’s harder but the idea that bosses are too hard makes little sense. Again, MMO content … bosses … should be hard no?

Just like it’s a shame that MMO games devolved to a point where people aren’t willing to learn to succeed, somehow the same applies to teaming and co-operative play. Newsflash .. you’re playing a game style where the fundamental premise is co-operating with other people.

Obtena.7952:

kdaddy.5431:

Im sorry i have to laugh at so many of these comments talking about L2P.

Since when did games devolve so badly that LEARNING to play them became such an unreasonable expectation with players?

Granted, the leveling experience does not sufficiently challenge people to learn their class and prepare them for HoT (or dungeons for that matter), but the idea that people should be able to scrub through the game and fail because they aren’t willing to learn is preposterous.

If you read the whole comment instead of just picking 1 line out of context you would of seen the point but i will gladly do say it again.

HOT did not create a fun balance game in the 4 maps.

Please tell me how you solo TD-DS on a dead map? Please tell me the L2P issue when it comes to the meta maps and you jumping into a lane with 1-2 other people or in DS where there is not enough commanders or people who know how to run the event a “new” players issue.

Matter of fact how about a veteran player like me who has ran the events and am disgusted that when i simply want to run around for fun and explore. That these areas are unforgiving unless people are running SP trains or small guild groups running events but of course its a L2P issue for me as well. What was i thinking.

How about weapon mechanics, like on warrior lets say i want to run s/s with rifle and a bunch of pocket raptors come for me. Oh oh im screwed with my slow attack speed and single target damage on rifle.

Would your next comment be run different weapons and x-x-x utility skills. Because ive mained warrior in PvE and in PvP with nearly 4k matches alone on warrior as well near full completion of the HOT and new maps on warrior.

Simply put HOT needs to be certain way all the time. Its not as fun as core GW2, the story is not as good, living story is not as good and build diversity is not as good.

Im all for more challenging content but where exactly did we get it? Raids which are more rotation based, gear and team comp? Dungeons which they quit working on?

I can give Anet some huge credit on the new level 100 frac since it was fun and the challenge mote for it is more fun and challenging then the old 100 challenge.

Do not mix up L2P and telling me and other people that it might be a mechanic issue when there is a huge issue on many things for HOT.

Seriously why is mace/shield for warrior so much better in condi then sword and so much better in damage then axe? On top of the bonus block and stun?

Tell me why rifle was destroyed for PvP and PvE because WvW had a trait issue which they still havent improved?

Im fine with the rebuttal the other person gave because they actually gave a example which was fighting a smokescale. (ok people might die from this, i didnt know)

But you throw out nothing, how dare i ask people to learn to play?

Im pretty sure i dont need to l2p and i find alot of the same issues though I and the Op may have different examples for our frustration. They are still with in the HOT issues as well as the same umbrella problem.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t get that complaint … it’s no different if you are in Core GW2 … you die, no one is around so you just WP somewhere. Yup it’s harder but the idea that bosses are too hard makes little sense. Again, MMO content … bosses … should be hard no?

Just like it’s a shame that MMO games devolved to a point where people aren’t willing to learn to succeed, somehow the same applies to teaming and co-operative play. Newsflash .. you’re playing a game style where the fundamental premise is co-operating with other people.

Thats fine how about the stuff when maps are dead? We have 3 maps that revolve around a team game. Thats not harder content thats coordinated content.

You are using L2P as a cop out. Under the L2P issue is gear, trait set up, utility set up, and after that its mechanic set up and weapon set chosen as well food and accessorys.

Many people write L2P just accusing the OP of not knowing anything which is fine but you and others still have not answered those base questions.

Saying find a guild, grab some friends, blah blah blah isnt harder content. That is not challenging a group of players is simply throwing more apples at something makes it easier.

A real example of L2P is i play warrior in PvP i am in plat. You are playing warrior and am in bronze crying about the MM system, we 1 vs 1 and i crush you. You need to mechanically get better.

If i fight a boss and can not beat him and its not meant to be for 1 person to beat and i struggle to find people to help me or do not want to ask then this content is not for me.

Simply put HOT isnt for everyone and L2P might not be the answer and no HOT isnt harder based content just content not intended to be solo’d in a reasonable amount of time.

kdaddy.5431:

Vayne.8563:

kdaddy.5431:

Im sorry i have to laugh at so many of these comments talking about L2P.

As someone who has 28k + AP and got to lgendary in the PvP seasons and was ranked in the top 250 for NA and place in platinum in the end. I find most peoples comments to be a joke.

First off OP is right, Anet made the new mastery’s mandatory to play the new areas. They also made it to play certain builds and weapon sets more viable then others. When HOT first came out i couldnt do alot of the PvE things with my guild mates because i was in PvP. So there is a frustration factor involved.

Also let me add on the 2nd part, HOT is difficult to solo. It is not easy soloing the HP/SP and AB-TD-DS are all meta event maps. That by definition alone means they can not be solo. Please be the person on the dead map trying to organize a meta event and have 3 people in Ogre Lane. ( omg so much fun)

Heres a bigger factor the OP hit the nail in the head on. Population in the game. We are at a point with 3 daily maps, HOT areas that revolve around meta timers and people are defending a increased difficulty level?

Raids are not difficult, they are mechanic based and gear based. Fractals were not difficult, they were simply AR based. Dungeons were given up on.

I love gliding. The vertical maps are a great joy. This was truly unique and special. It has been 2 maps, blood stone fen and verdint brink. The other maps are simply for organized groups who love to farm.

The amount of people saying L2P is so laughable i actually started chuckling when you see 3-4-5 people say learn the class when really that isnt the issue.

Anet introduce HOT and it was less content then the original, less story, less dungeons/raids, made WvW and PvP worse, made PvE a spam fest as well as brought in more of a zerging mentality.

Its ok to say that HOT isnt for the OP because it wasnt for me either. But the L2P is straight 3 stooges gold here.

And yet there are people walking around without your experience that need to learn to play. I’ve easily taught a dozen people, probably more, how to handle HOT.

Before I showed them they couldn’t do it and after I showed them they could. Some of them still post here, maybe they’ll swing by and back me up, but either way, it’s true.

Simple examples like people not realizing that they can range something if it’s too hard to melee, because they meleed everything in the open world. The idea that they sometimes have to dodge back and switch to range never occurred to them.

Or the mechanics of the Smokescale, which people die too quickly without ever learning it. They don’t realize you have to pull the smokescale out of it’s circle of smoke to kill it, because inside the circle of smoke it can’t be harmed.

That doesn’t mean people will never die. And it doesn’t mean you can solo every hero point, but just because you’re a good player doesn’t mean most of the playerbase is.

We’ve seen it time and time again, many people over many events that don’t have the basics of the game down. People who kill themselves when they have confusion. People who don’t know how to remove condition. People who knockback stuff away from melee guys.

Plenty of people can’t play the new zones at all. Some of us can solo 90% of it. That’s the difference.

What you are saying is fine when it comes to actual fighting mechanics but the OP of the thread is talking about fighting and losing and no one being around, bosses being too hard etc etc.

That is not what i discussed and what potentially the OP of the thread is talking about.

I’m in those zones virtually every day and often at off hours since I live in Australia. There are plenty of people around. And by plenty I mean plenty.

However, there are enough hero points any who knows how to play can solo to get every elite spec unlocked.

I can find 25 soloable hero points quite easy. You might not be able to get map complete solo but you can certainly unlock your elite spec solo.

And I’m not convinced that the OP was talking about 15 hero points and a meta, which is most of what you can’t do.

It’s like going into Orr and saying you can’t solo orr because you can’t solo the temples. It’s just not true. From what the OP is saying I’m gathering he’s having difficult in HoT beyond just group content.

kdaddy.5431:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t get that complaint … it’s no different if you are in Core GW2 … you die, no one is around so you just WP somewhere. Yup it’s harder but the idea that bosses are too hard makes little sense. Again, MMO content … bosses … should be hard no?

Just like it’s a shame that MMO games devolved to a point where people aren’t willing to learn to succeed, somehow the same applies to teaming and co-operative play. Newsflash .. you’re playing a game style where the fundamental premise is co-operating with other people.

Thats fine how about the stuff when maps are dead? We have 3 maps that revolve around a team game. Thats not harder content thats coordinated content.

You are using L2P as a cop out. Under the L2P issue is gear, trait set up, utility set up, and after that its mechanic set up and weapon set chosen as well food and accessorys.

Many people write L2P just accusing the OP of not knowing anything which is fine but you and others still have not answered those base questions.

Saying find a guild, grab some friends, blah blah blah isnt harder content. That is not challenging a group of players is simply throwing more apples at something makes it easier.

A real example of L2P is i play warrior in PvP i am in plat. You are playing warrior and am in bronze crying about the MM system, we 1 vs 1 and i crush you. You need to mechanically get better.

If i fight a boss and can not beat him and its not meant to be for 1 person to beat and i struggle to find people to help me or do not want to ask then this content is not for me.

Simply put HOT isnt for everyone and L2P might not be the answer and no HOT isnt harder based content just content not intended to be solo’d in a reasonable amount of time.

L2P includes learning how to use a timer and learn how to use the LFG tool. The only meta that’s harder to get down now is VB, and that’s not because people don’t show up. It’s because what you need to do is badly explained.

I do the meta in every other HoT zone at least a few times a week. The VB meta I’ve done recently as well, but it’s not successful as often due to people not reading map chat. There are certainly enough people in the map when I’ve tried it.

@ vayne

People complained about Orr too with core GW2. The difference is there were 26 other maps they could slowly map out.

Hot has 0 maps because there is only 4.

Also “L2P includes learning how to use a timer and learn how to use the LFG tool.”
Are you serious?

Wow im fine if you want to say you enjoy the meta map by my god what a terrible excuse to defend something.

Also you living in Australia means nothing. 1/2 my guild is from there and im in the US and 2-3 others are in canada. These meta events are based on getting into the right map at the right time.

Lastly you end both comments with “you assume the OP is struggling with more then just group content” which is a issue beyond that. Then finish the last comment with a failed VB.

Seriously what point are you trying to get threw? You talk about the ability to use a LFG tool but that only works if the map is available with people who know how to do the event. Thats 1

People have not liked that all 4 maps require multiple people to grab a skill point, not all of them but if you are trying to explore and get 100% and you WANT to play solo this is a issue. Thats 2

Lets not forget that for people who want to run THERE OWN BUILDS that are not meta, people who are under geared, people who struggle with the mechanics of the different raid bosses can now not do raids. Thats 3

How are you seriously trying to defend this? HOT was horrible for WvW and PvP. It literally split the PvE community since GW2 core was a casual friendly game.

Verdint Brink i give you is a amazing map with multiple ways and is truly exceptional in all aspects.

The other 3 maps are simply for farmers, when you add in the fact the story was not very good to be kind. That doesnt leave a whole lot for the players like the OP.

Can i relate this to another area of the game having issues? Well thank you i will go ahead.

Right now in PvP gold players and below want warrior and DH nerfed and say OP. Players in plat and up are not really struggling against them. Alot of the higher end players are saying L2P like many of the people in this thread, without looking at alot of the real issues with what the OP is saying.

You are simply saying everything is ok because you dont have a problem with it. Many others like you are enjoying the constant repeat of events for farming. Good for you guys.

I have played all the events, completed them, did not enjoy them. (other then VB)

The OP and MANY others have shown disdain for it. Myself included, many people said its a L2P issue. I dont like it and mechanically if i can be forward. Im probably better then most of the people commenting on this forum, so i simply dont like the meta maps.

My issue becomes since you know and some others know how to deal with DH/war class stacking isnt a issue. But what about for everyone gold and below?

That is why HOT has been a huge let down. Before i could of played s/s rifle warrior in PvE, WvW and PvP. If i was better i won, now with HOT. If you are running the meta build and im running my non s/s rifle build and you cant get out of silver in league. Yet if i play the meta in league and get to plat, that shows Anet threw a brick at balance at build diversity.

Which is what they did to the player base with HOT meta server maps, raids, events.

You can by all means defend the style of play because you enjoy it.

What i would like to see is the L2P comments taken out since they are a loaded diaper.

“L2P includes learning how to use a timer and learn how to use the LFG tool” especially ones like this since its suppose to be a TOOL that can help players instead of being a necessary item to play 75% of the HOT maps.

kdaddy.5431:

@ vayne

snip

Also “L2P includes learning how to use a timer and learn how to use the LFG tool.”
Are you serious?

Wow im fine if you want to say you enjoy the meta map by my god what a terrible excuse to defend something.

snip

Lastly you end both comments with “you assume the OP is struggling with more then just group content” which is a issue beyond that. Then finish the last comment with a failed VB.

Seriously what point are you trying to get threw? You talk about the ability to use a LFG tool but that only works if the map is available with people who know how to do the event. Thats 1

People have not liked that all 4 maps require multiple people to grab a skill point, not all of them but if you are trying to explore and get 100% and you WANT to play solo this is a issue. Thats 2

Lets not forget that for people who want to run THERE OWN BUILDS that are not meta, people who are under geared, people who struggle with the mechanics of the different raid bosses can now not do raids. Thats 3

How are you seriously trying to defend this? HOT was horrible for WvW and PvP. It literally split the PvE community since GW2 core was a casual friendly game.

Verdint Brink i give you is a amazing map with multiple ways and is truly exceptional in all aspects.

The other 3 maps are simply for farmers, when you add in the fact the story was not very good to be kind. That doesnt leave a whole lot for the players like the OP.

Can i relate this to another area of the game having issues? Well thank you i will go ahead.

Right now in PvP gold players and below want warrior and DH nerfed and say OP. Players in plat and up are not really struggling against them. Alot of the higher end players are saying L2P like many of the people in this thread, without looking at alot of the real issues with what the OP is saying.

You are simply saying everything is ok because you dont have a problem with it. Many others like you are enjoying the constant repeat of events for farming. Good for you guys.

I have played all the events, completed them, did not enjoy them. (other then VB)

The OP and MANY others have shown disdain for it. Myself included, many people said its a L2P issue. I dont like it and mechanically if i can be forward. Im probably better then most of the people commenting on this forum, so i simply dont like the meta maps.

My issue becomes since you know and some others know how to deal with DH/war class stacking isnt a issue. But what about for everyone gold and below?

That is why HOT has been a huge let down. Before i could of played s/s rifle warrior in PvE, WvW and PvP. If i was better i won, now with HOT. If you are running the meta build and im running my non s/s rifle build and you cant get out of silver in league. Yet if i play the meta in league and get to plat, that shows Anet threw a brick at balance at build diversity.

Which is what they did to the player base with HOT meta server maps, raids, events.

You can by all means defend the style of play because you enjoy it.

What i would like to see is the L2P comments taken out since they are a loaded diaper.

“L2P includes learning how to use a timer and learn how to use the LFG tool” especially ones like this since its suppose to be a TOOL that can help players instead of being a necessary item to play 75% of the HOT maps.

Okay reality check time. The guy complained about trying to solo HIS STORY. The story isn’t as hard as the zone and they can all be soloed, but maybe the last story. If you can’t solo the early stories, you need to learn how to play.

I NEVER play meta builds. I don’t care about the meta and never have. And I do well in HoT. Not just fine.

As for timers, you want to run Teq, you need a timer. You want to run Triple Threat, you need a timer. The altnernative to timers is the situation you have in Orr with temples and anyone who’s needed a temple event probably knows how frustrating that can be.

The OP isn’t saying he can’t solo HPs. He’s saying he can’t solo story instances. They’re just not that hard.

You don’t have to run meta builds to beat them. You need to have exotic stuff and know your profession and that’s it.

I’ve soloed the HOT story on every single profession without any problem with Australian ping no less.

So yeah, you need timers to get to any world boss event in the game, and that’s in core. No one should be blaming HOT for that.

As for LFG tool,. it’s a tool there for people to use to get into maps and it works. If you come late, you’re locked out because the first map is full. That can also happen at Tequatl, where the last map doesn’t have enough people.

This isn’t HoT, this is the game, it’s been the game for a long time. And I suggest you read the OP, because having a problem with the story..that is a L2P issue.

28k AP or not, Vayne got it right. OP complains about not being able to play his SOLO STORY.

Proof:

I start up my SOLO play story line. Let me say this again.. SOLO PLAY Story line. To find out that not only do the NPCs get absolutely annihilated leaving you alone to fight 15+ mobs, but you yourself get zerg gibbed in 2 seconds. Yes i dodged, Yes i tried to avoid everything. At some point you have to try and hit them and thats when you get gibbed.

After dying and grinding my way through a few solo missions and getting to the point where I had to defend the frog village only to once again have every single npc dead within seconds and dying over and over i gave up.

The SOLO PLAY story line is simply not designed properly. Its garbage. And thats it for me, I was COMPLETELY enjoying the game .. right up until the expansion. Solo play is just not balanced properly.

Plautze.6290:

28k AP or not, Vayne got it right. OP complains about not being able to play his SOLO STORY.

Proof:

I start up my SOLO play story line. Let me say this again.. SOLO PLAY Story line. To find out that not only do the NPCs get absolutely annihilated leaving you alone to fight 15+ mobs, but you yourself get zerg gibbed in 2 seconds. Yes i dodged, Yes i tried to avoid everything. At some point you have to try and hit them and thats when you get gibbed.

After dying and grinding my way through a few solo missions and getting to the point where I had to defend the frog village only to once again have every single npc dead within seconds and dying over and over i gave up.

The SOLO PLAY story line is simply not designed properly. Its garbage. And thats it for me, I was COMPLETELY enjoying the game .. right up until the expansion. Solo play is just not balanced properly.

He even capitilized solo. I have a 60 year old woman with a bad computer in my guild who can beat the story.

What I’m guessing the OP’s problem is is that he spent all of core running into a million mobs with a greatsword or duel axe on his warrior.

It probably never occured to him to equip a bow or rifle. He probably never had to pull a few guys at a time or use the terrain to his advantage, all of which can be done solo.

He might not even have condition removal on his bar.

So yeah, it’s soloable by most people, I would think at least up to the last part. Then it’s a mixed bag. The last chapter is long and difficult by comparison. The first chapters, shouldn’t really be much of a problem.

I know that everyone measures according to their own standards, but just because you can play the game (and enjoy it) doesn’t mean it’s “just a L2p issue”.

Learning by itself can be full of challenges, and while it’s hard to accommodate for everyone, GW2 is far from ideal regarding this aspect.

I don’t think someone who played from the beginning of the game has the same experience as someone who started a few weeks ago.

FrizzFreston.5290:

I know that everyone measures according to their own standards, but just because you can play the game (and enjoy it) doesn’t mean it’s “just a L2p issue”.

Learning by itself can be full of challenges, and while it’s hard to accommodate for everyone, GW2 is far from ideal regarding this aspect.

I don’t think someone who played from the beginning of the game has the same experience as someone who started a few weeks ago.

Right, so someone buys the game, plays it for a few weeks, has done none of the end game content, skips to the expansion content, which was always going to be end game content (just like Eye of the North was in Guild Wars 1), and says he can’t solo the story an therefore it’s garbage.

The fact is, if you’re only playing a couple of weeks, maybe there is stuff to learn and if you need to learn stuff…about playing the game, that’s the very definition of learn to play.

When I fail at something in a game, any game, I don’t assume immediately the game is garbage and come to the forums to make abrasive posts.

I see if maybe there’s something I’ve missed, particularly if I’m new at a game.

The OP worded a post about the difficulty of a story in an abrasive manner, and that type of hyperbole helps no one, including the OP himself.

But if players who are playing the game longer can do it, because they know more, that’s the very definition of a learn to play issue.

I never stated it wasn’t one. Just that it understates the issue. Learning to play with a bad teacher is not always very enjoyable.

Plautze.6290:

28k AP or not, Vayne got it right. OP complains about not being able to play his SOLO STORY.

Proof:

I start up my SOLO play story line. Let me say this again.. SOLO PLAY Story line. To find out that not only do the NPCs get absolutely annihilated leaving you alone to fight 15+ mobs, but you yourself get zerg gibbed in 2 seconds. Yes i dodged, Yes i tried to avoid everything. At some point you have to try and hit them and thats when you get gibbed.

After dying and grinding my way through a few solo missions and getting to the point where I had to defend the frog village only to once again have every single npc dead within seconds and dying over and over i gave up.

The SOLO PLAY story line is simply not designed properly. Its garbage. And thats it for me, I was COMPLETELY enjoying the game .. right up until the expansion. Solo play is just not balanced properly.

In that 2nd paragraph you will see he started to try and play the story part which is story that happens in PvE.

In the part you didnt highlight the OP is complaining about the glider and mushroom masterys.

Some of the story in HOT is PvE and actually alot of it is getting experience points for masterys int he circle they Anet created. To use tunnels to expand the story you need to play PvE HOT. They are trying to do the story mode solo and are struggling big time because everything is tied together.

Let me say you guys keep bringing in other factors.

Vayne brought in examples such as triple threat, which i agree needs a timer but 3 out of 4 areas of HOT do as well. For example lets say OP gets a bad AB map, they cant win and hes stuck outside trying to get in. Struggles to find another route in and then gets frustrated since he doesnt want to do the meta event to get into tarir but simply wants to do the story, for someone new like the OP this will get frustrating.

Lets say OP learns a little, really wants it and learns the meta events. Uses the LFG tool sees its 1 hour away decides to do some PvE grind for experience points. 30 minutes away finds that 1 map filled up for which ever meta event. He gets into the 2nd map and finds out there are limited people who dont know how the event works and it fails. More frustration.

You are taking the 1 small line the OP says and you dont break it down.

OP of thread is struggling with the difficulty of HOT. They now have to figure out the new masterys to play the story, they need to PvE to unlock masterys, they need masterys to progress threw the personal story.

The OP unlocks gliding realizes they need mushrooms, tries to move on in the story realizes he needs tunnels, ran out of mastery points and runs back etc etc etc.

Vayne in his post even talked about how OP of thread is probably playing axe warrior.

You guys have the right to blame OP for being very new but you can not defend a system like this. We have 1 meta event in TT that really needs multiple zergs coordinated. Im sorry but i and my guild mates were able to take down temples back in the day when we only had exotics. Just because we found it easy doesnt make it easy for everyone.

There is a place for certain things. This player first time coming into HOT and he struggled badly.

Like i said before, If you are new tot he game and your a bronze level warrior and match making puts you against me a plat level warrior how is that fair?

Right now HOT (the 4 maps) are only for people who love to farm. The new system is a circle system meaning one needs the other. The OP can not escape until he/she figures it out.

Its one thing to say L2P and its another when HOT itself is just a bad set up which many have complained about.

kdaddy.5431:

Plautze.6290:

28k AP or not, Vayne got it right. OP complains about not being able to play his SOLO STORY.

Proof:

I start up my SOLO play story line. Let me say this again.. SOLO PLAY Story line. To find out that not only do the NPCs get absolutely annihilated leaving you alone to fight 15+ mobs, but you yourself get zerg gibbed in 2 seconds. Yes i dodged, Yes i tried to avoid everything. At some point you have to try and hit them and thats when you get gibbed.

After dying and grinding my way through a few solo missions and getting to the point where I had to defend the frog village only to once again have every single npc dead within seconds and dying over and over i gave up.

The SOLO PLAY story line is simply not designed properly. Its garbage. And thats it for me, I was COMPLETELY enjoying the game .. right up until the expansion. Solo play is just not balanced properly.

In that 2nd paragraph you will see he started to try and play the story part which is story that happens in PvE.

In the part you didnt highlight the OP is complaining about the glider and mushroom masterys.

Some of the story in HOT is PvE and actually alot of it is getting experience points for masterys int he circle they Anet created. To use tunnels to expand the story you need to play PvE HOT. They are trying to do the story mode solo and are struggling big time because everything is tied together.

Let me say you guys keep bringing in other factors.

Vayne brought in examples such as triple threat, which i agree needs a timer but 3 out of 4 areas of HOT do as well. For example lets say OP gets a bad AB map, they cant win and hes stuck outside trying to get in. Struggles to find another route in and then gets frustrated since he doesnt want to do the meta event to get into tarir but simply wants to do the story, for someone new like the OP this will get frustrating.

Lets say OP learns a little, really wants it and learns the meta events. Uses the LFG tool sees its 1 hour away decides to do some PvE grind for experience points. 30 minutes away finds that 1 map filled up for which ever meta event. He gets into the 2nd map and finds out there are limited people who dont know how the event works and it fails. More frustration.

You are taking the 1 small line the OP says and you dont break it down.

OP of thread is struggling with the difficulty of HOT. They now have to figure out the new masterys to play the story, they need to PvE to unlock masterys, they need masterys to progress threw the personal story.

The OP unlocks gliding realizes they need mushrooms, tries to move on in the story realizes he needs tunnels, ran out of mastery points and runs back etc etc etc.

Vayne in his post even talked about how OP of thread is probably playing axe warrior.

You guys have the right to blame OP for being very new but you can not defend a system like this. We have 1 meta event in TT that really needs multiple zergs coordinated. Im sorry but i and my guild mates were able to take down temples back in the day when we only had exotics. Just because we found it easy doesnt make it easy for everyone.

There is a place for certain things. This player first time coming into HOT and he struggled badly.

Like i said before, If you are new tot he game and your a bronze level warrior and match making puts you against me a plat level warrior how is that fair?

Right now HOT (the 4 maps) are only for people who love to farm. The new system is a circle system meaning one needs the other. The OP can not escape until he/she figures it out.

Its one thing to say L2P and its another when HOT itself is just a bad set up which many have complained about.

Okay first, the OP said he kept getting overwhelmed by 15 enemies IN THE STORY. That’s what he said. One would assume that’s he’s charging into the middle of a bunch of guys without trying to pull at all, without a ranged weapon and possibly without condition removal.

Secondly, ALL world bosses and meta events except the ones in Orr need a timer. How are you going to do Jormag if you don’t know when it spawns. Or the Shatterer? Or the Shadow Behemoth.

Timers have been a part of this game for years. HoT continues what already existed. Your blame is misplaced.

I feel you’re misrepresenting what the OP said to make some point of your own. He said he couldn’t do the story. He needs to learn how to play his character if he wants to do end game content.

FrizzFreston.5290:

I never stated it wasn’t one. Just that it understates the issue. Learning to play with a bad teacher is not always very enjoyable.

The game doesn’t do a great job of teaching how to handle stuff, if you come in new with HoT and don’t play through all the older content.

Living Story Season 2 instances are much harder than the open world but most new people will bypass that, unfortuately.

Southsun, the Silverwastes and Drytop are all harder than the core world but the personal story doesn’t take people there.

However, dungeons and fractals do exist and people can do those. And solo people should spend some time in the Silverwastes before they jump into HOT, or find someone to teach them the game (which I do often).

The game has never really been good at holding your hand. For some people that’s a real issue. Other people like it.

However, the difficulty curve from core game to HOT is pretty bad, I’ll give you that.

Poisonedpawn.7085:

New to guild wars 2. Been playing the last week leveling up a warrior through the main story line and base game. I was having a blast, great story line and fun interactions. I even enjoyed the new take on some of the quests and how you could do a quest a few different ways. Last night I gave Zhaitan a beat down and was hyped to jump into the next story line and expansion. I had NO problems at all through the main game.

Then today happened. I get into the new heart of thorns zones and right away the first thing that hit me is how GOD AWEFUL and annoying the layout and design of the zone was. this set a horrible tone. I get that it was trying to force the use of the glider and whatever bogus mushroom crap is in the game but it was FAR too forced. Its more annoying than its fun.

I start up my SOLO play story line. Let me say this again.. SOLO PLAY Story line. To find out that not only do the NPCs get absolutely annihilated leaving you alone to fight 15+ mobs, but you yourself get zerg gibbed in 2 seconds. Yes i dodged, Yes i tried to avoid everything. At some point you have to try and hit them and thats when you get gibbed.

After dying and grinding my way through a few solo missions and getting to the point where I had to defend the frog village only to once again have every single npc dead within seconds and dying over and over i gave up.

The SOLO PLAY story line is simply not designed properly. Its garbage. And thats it for me, I was COMPLETELY enjoying the game .. right up until the expansion. Solo play is just not balanced properly.

I always wondered why more people dont play this game. Now i know.

This is basically what happened to me. HOT came out, I had pre-ordered it, played it for a few hours and quit GW2 for over a year.

Here’s the thing: Don’t do the story. Just ignore HOT, it sucks big time. Everyone knows it. Just look at how GW2 scored on metacritic from users vs HOT.

Come back, do adventures and collect just enough mastery points to earn gliding, updraft, bouncing mushrooms BUT DON’T EARN YOUR XP IN MAGUUMA. Go to Bitterfrost Frontier and do meta map events to earn your XP. Then go back to Maguuma and join a hero point train to get your elite spec. Then never go back to Maguuma again. The place sucks.

@ vayne i understand what you are saying about the OP learning to play but he and torso reaper are saying the same thing.

Also i wasnt interrupting it differently i was breaking it down to the basics.

You talk about timers, i remember when GW2 first came out and how you did things. It was called Guild chat and go to LA. Before the mega servers, i used to say hey guys claw is up in guild chat. If no one was on i went to LA, there use to be a reason to sit in LA. We use to do the same thing for WvW.

So no you didnt have to use timers before, also you can do many many of the bosses with a few people. Its why i dont say you can blame VB because if you have 2-3 friends with you. You can go after a boss at night with a small group.

Cant do that with in the other 3 maps, the OP is trying to solo. Torso Reaper above me comments on the trains you do to finish Maguuma.

Thats not how it should be, if HOT was actually harder they bosses and monsters you face would be actually stronger. No instead all the HOT content is group based.

Then they throw a bunch of monsters out who have simply 1 shot mechanics or SP with monsters with tons of HP.

Like ive said before, im ok with saying HOT isnt for everyone. Telling the OP to L2P in a system that requires X to do Y to do Z which helps you do X is terrible.

The idea that LFG system TOOL is necessary to learn, to do things says something about the 3 maps. Your doing what Anet did to eles in PvP. Learn to play shout/support/healbot or play something else.

kdaddy.5431:

@ vayne i understand what you are saying about the OP learning to play but he and torso reaper are saying the same thing.

Also i wasnt interrupting it differently i was breaking it down to the basics.

You talk about timers, i remember when GW2 first came out and how you did things. It was called Guild chat and go to LA. Before the mega servers, i used to say hey guys claw is up in guild chat. If no one was on i went to LA, there use to be a reason to sit in LA. We use to do the same thing for WvW.

So no you didnt have to use timers before, also you can do many many of the bosses with a few people. Its why i dont say you can blame VB because if you have 2-3 friends with you. You can go after a boss at night with a small group.

Cant do that with in the other 3 maps, the OP is trying to solo. Torso Reaper above me comments on the trains you do to finish Maguuma.

Thats not how it should be, if HOT was actually harder they bosses and monsters you face would be actually stronger. No instead all the HOT content is group based.

Then they throw a bunch of monsters out who have simply 1 shot mechanics or SP with monsters with tons of HP.

Like ive said before, im ok with saying HOT isnt for everyone. Telling the OP to L2P in a system that requires X to do Y to do Z which helps you do X is terrible.

The idea that LFG system TOOL is necessary to learn, to do things says something about the 3 maps. Your doing what Anet did to eles in PvP. Learn to play shout/support/healbot or play something else.

Except that, as has been pointed out repeatedly here, the OP’s complaint is about soloing the story, not the zones as a whole. The story is soloable. If one has played a game for only a week or two, and cannot solo content that is designed for solo play, it might be a function of one’s mastery of one’s chosen character. Every game has a learning curve. Content meant to be challenge for people who have been playing at max level for YEARS might be a struggle, requiring extra effort to learn the ropes, for someone who picked the game up yesterday, or at the beginning of last week. Suggesting that someone might need to master, or at least stretch their knowledge of, their character before moving into veteran content isnt an insult, isnt dismissive, its just common sense.

No, “all of Hot,” is not, “group content,” as you claim. It does include group content, but so does the core game.

You simply have to change your mentality. I’m central tyria you can attack and kill every mob you encounter except some champions. In hot you have to be more tactical and pick your battles. If you charge headlong into every mob you see you’ll be punished. You’re not in a tame civilized area you’re in a hostile jungle overrun by dragon minions. It shouldn’t take you more than a few deaths to realize that running away from fights in the jungle is often the best move. If you fail to learn this lesson ever that’s your fault for being stubborn or learning disabled.

I understand that not every player is a top skilled player. But what keeps you from seeking help from other friendly players who can help you improve your play to a decent level, and give you a smoother play experience. Its a mmo afterall, not a singleplayer game. For myself i am no fan of the vertical chaos of the Hot maps. But i love the new more open and intuitive LS 3 maps and events. You miss out on a lot of new fun. You can even skip Hot and Still get enough mastery points from the new maps, i did it on my secondary Hot account.

IndigoSundown.5419:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-first-beta-weekend-event-begins-august-7/

“We’ve done a lot of work to balance creature difficulty, and we’ll be looking for your thoughts on the overall experience. Do you feel the need to use your entire skill bar in battles? Does teaming up with other players feel more rewarding? Do you find yourself wanting to change your skills and traits to overcome encounters? Warning—creatures will be more challenging than in the existing Guild Wars 2 world.”

As you can see, the intent in HoT was to present more challenging creature which are designed to encourage players to make greater use of their character’s builds than core mobs do, and/or to encourage playing with others. While I doubt that HoT forced the best players to do more than learn new mob moves, I believe it did raise the bar with regard to the minimum engagement with one’s character capabilities needed to successfully deal with HoT creatures. I’d call the XPac a qualified success in that regard.

Whether that is what the design intent ought to have been is another matter. However, the lesson for those who bought without learning what the XPac was intended to be is to exercise due diligence before buying. The information was — and is — out there.

It might have been mentioned that enemies would be more difficult but it certainly wasn’t emphasized. And what people expect from an expansion of a game they like is more of the same thing they already like. I certainly had zero idea that the expansion would be anything like it is. And I would not have purchased it if I did know ahead of time.

Ashen.2907:

Except that, as has been pointed out repeatedly here, the OP’s complaint is about soloing the story, not the zones as a whole. The story is soloable. If one has played a game for only a week or two, and cannot solo content that is designed for solo play, it might be a function of one’s mastery of one’s chosen character.

There are MANY players on the forums that complain about not being able to complete various parts of the story. And as I have said many times – in my opinion the story should be able to be enjoyed by everyone, not just those who have a certain mastery of their character. Challenge should be relegated to separate places in the game where those who prefer a higher challenge can go seek it.

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-first-beta-weekend-event-begins-august-7/

“We’ve done a lot of work to balance creature difficulty, and we’ll be looking for your thoughts on the overall experience. Do you feel the need to use your entire skill bar in battles? Does teaming up with other players feel more rewarding? Do you find yourself wanting to change your skills and traits to overcome encounters? Warning—creatures will be more challenging than in the existing Guild Wars 2 world.”

As you can see, the intent in HoT was to present more challenging creature which are designed to encourage players to make greater use of their character’s builds than core mobs do, and/or to encourage playing with others. While I doubt that HoT forced the best players to do more than learn new mob moves, I believe it did raise the bar with regard to the minimum engagement with one’s character capabilities needed to successfully deal with HoT creatures. I’d call the XPac a qualified success in that regard.

Whether that is what the design intent ought to have been is another matter. However, the lesson for those who bought without learning what the XPac was intended to be is to exercise due diligence before buying. The information was — and is — out there.

It might have been mentioned that enemies would be more difficult but it certainly wasn’t emphasized. And what people expect from an expansion of a game they like is more of the same thing they already like. I certainly had zero idea that the expansion would be anything like it is. And I would not have purchased it if I did know ahead of time.

Of course it was. You were not maybe part of it bit the fact is that difficulty of mobs in HoT was tested beforehand in Beta weekends (3 betas occurred). And not just by Anet but also by players. Please don’t spread false information about the topic

Vayne.8563:

The game has never really been good at holding your hand. For some people that’s a real issue. Other people like it.

However, the difficulty curve from core game to HOT is pretty bad, I’ll give you that.

And don’t forget Season 1. And the obscurity of Season 2 these days. Although that’s more of an assumption, but I believe after doing Zaithan, there’s no indication how to further your story, or at least that is behind a purchase. But also, since someone who would start now obviously doesn’t have season 2, nor the previous experiences, but DOES have HoT story, that leads to a distorted experience.

I think that someone who played since the start has most of the systems come to them gradually, and difficulty increase over time even more so. Season 1 was also a step up (still remember complaints about Molten Facility when that came first out, even though I had the greatest time). And then there’s season 2 which for a new player right now is behind a purchase, while HoT is just there to continue right away.

Plus personaly I wouldn’t mind season 1 coming back (:P) as repeatable, not just to provide the experience but also to close that gap. That and season 2 may need to be included in a new purchase a these days. Or better indicated.

It’s really not a fluent transition at all. And while for myself it really doesn’t matter anymore, I do think that is something the game can improve on greatly. (Though maybe not as easily…)

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

Except that, as has been pointed out repeatedly here, the OP’s complaint is about soloing the story, not the zones as a whole. The story is soloable. If one has played a game for only a week or two, and cannot solo content that is designed for solo play, it might be a function of one’s mastery of one’s chosen character.

There are MANY players on the forums that complain about not being able to complete various parts of the story. And as I have said many times – in my opinion the story should be able to be enjoyed by everyone, not just those who have a certain mastery of their character. Challenge should be relegated to separate places in the game where those who prefer a higher challenge can go seek it.

I understand your opinion, but, in my opinion, it is reasonable to expect players to know how to play the game with some degree of understanding in order to complete max level content.

I would expect a new buyer of the game who insta-leveled to 80 immediately after purchase to struggle with max level content in any game.

The only way for max level content to be guaranteed to be fully accessible to anyone, regardless of lack of experience with the game, would be for it to consist entirely of dialogue and cutscenes. To stop being a game. Admittedly interactive storytelling does not need to be a game, but GW2 is one.

kdaddy.5431:

Obtena.7952:

kdaddy.5431:

Im sorry i have to laugh at so many of these comments talking about L2P.

Since when did games devolve so badly that LEARNING to play them became such an unreasonable expectation with players?

Granted, the leveling experience does not sufficiently challenge people to learn their class and prepare them for HoT (or dungeons for that matter), but the idea that people should be able to scrub through the game and fail because they aren’t willing to learn is preposterous.

If you read the whole comment instead of just picking 1 line out of context you would of seen the point but i will gladly do say it again.

I think Vayne covered what i want to say to you very well, though to be fair, I didn’t just pick out one line out of context. OP is complaining about content that almost every player, short of some physical or mental disability, should be able to complete that knows their class well and understands the game.

If you wish to delve OUTSIDE of the OP’s complain about HoT in general, I’m game for that discussion too because I don’t believe the requirement on the player to complete that content is much higher than what is necessary than the HoT storyline. Yes, you need people around; I’ve yet to be in a map where people don’t exist interested in participating in content. Yes, there is an expectation that people are aware of the phase that the maps are in to get to the content they want … Neither of these extra requirements are outside of the capabilities of anyone that can figure out the requirements for the storyline in the first place. You make them sound like insurmountable barriers, yet lots of players of various capabilities have done them, so either your view of how the game works is wrong, or you’re being incredulous.

To me, the OP sounds like someone that just wants to rush into the endgame and ‘win’. Obviously GW2 isn’t the game for him in the first place because he will learn quickly that subsequent zones aren’t the scrubfest that core is either. In fact, I can’t think of an MMO that encourages that kind of play anyways. If anything GW2 is very friendly to players in that regard.

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

Except that, as has been pointed out repeatedly here, the OP’s complaint is about soloing the story, not the zones as a whole. The story is soloable. If one has played a game for only a week or two, and cannot solo content that is designed for solo play, it might be a function of one’s mastery of one’s chosen character.

There are MANY players on the forums that complain about not being able to complete various parts of the story. And as I have said many times – in my opinion the story should be able to be enjoyed by everyone, not just those who have a certain mastery of their character. Challenge should be relegated to separate places in the game where those who prefer a higher challenge can go seek it.

I understand your opinion, but, in my opinion, it is reasonable to expect players to know how to play the game with some degree of understanding in order to complete max level content.

I would expect a new buyer of the game who insta-leveled to 80 immediately after purchase to struggle with max level content in any game.

The only way for max level content to be guaranteed to be fully accessible to anyone, regardless of lack of experience with the game, would be for it to consist entirely of dialogue and cutscenes. To stop being a game. Admittedly interactive storytelling does not need to be a game, but GW2 is one.

Once again i will write that there needs to be a place for this harder content.

Guess what there is alot of PvP players in this game who straight quit because they get handled. I had 2 guild mates who were digging PvP this season. One started 7-3 was put at 1700 rating and then on his 11th game was place against ESL level players and was shut out 500-0. Didnt come back to PvP.

Another guild mate was in silver pushing to gold and he to was nearly in gold, maybe 150 rating away from it. He has played around 60 matches, his next game was 500-0. He was shocked and added 2 players from the enemy team to his friends list and they were in high gold.

There is a time and place, im sorry that i dont agree with some of the logic you guys are using. Im sorry that just because Anet did this style, means i have to agree with it.

No, its a bad set up, a bad design and people should not be told to L2P in starting areas of a map.

You keep talking max- level content, i dont even understand because non of it is actually hard. For me personally i walk threw most of it, ive solo most of the champions and skill points.

But having played with some guild mates who absouletly hate HOT maps, having played with people who struggle with the PvE content, i simply try to understand what is happening and break it down.

You are not, you are trying to say this is high level/difficult content and people should L2P or adjust there style.

Which is fine for you but that would be like me saying if you are not a top 100 player in PvP you can not speak about it because you are not at my level therefore you do not understand the game play as well as i do.

Which is why im pointing out you guys are wrong with the how this thread has gone.

I mean its not like Anet didnt give Mordremoth a challenge mode for you “high level content” players. Seriously, this isnt the first complaint about the story mode or living story coming from players who just want to play the game.

My goodness its story mode, if the OP was struggling with 98-99-100 fractal so be it, tell him to L2P. Raids fine tell him to L2P, hey even the precious meta events go ahead say L2P.

But for the basic story mode and exploring? Come on get that stick out of there.

Djinn.9245:

It might have been mentioned that enemies would be more difficult but it certainly wasn’t emphasized. And what people expect from an expansion of a game they like is more of the same thing they already like. I certainly had zero idea that the expansion would be anything like it is. And I would not have purchased it if I did know ahead of time.

So, game companies need to put disclaimers on their games that say: “CAUTION: Game content may be harder than you’re used to!”? Attempting to ensure that people inclined not to pay attention pay attention is not going to be accomplished by emphasizing something.

How about, instead, consumers take responsibility for their own choices? If you bought with no idea what HoT was like, you made no effort to look into it. There were blogs, forum discussions and youtube videos about HoT. Any attempt to learn about the XPac would have yielded the information you needed to make a more informed choice.

Djinn.9245:

There are MANY players on the forums that complain about not being able to complete various parts of the story. And as I have said many times – in my opinion the story should be able to be enjoyed by everyone, not just those who have a certain mastery of their character. Challenge should be relegated to separate places in the game where those who prefer a higher challenge can go seek it.

The problem is that there is no content in the PvE game that players at whom the content in question is not aimed will not demand access to it at a difficulty level they’re comfortable with.

Then there’s the philosophical issue of whether game developers ought to design their products in ways that do not respect the intelligence and/or ability of their players.
Personally, I’d rather a game require me to think from time to time.

kdaddy.5431:

@ vayne i understand what you are saying about the OP learning to play but he and torso reaper are saying the same thing.

Also i wasnt interrupting it differently i was breaking it down to the basics.

You talk about timers, i remember when GW2 first came out and how you did things. It was called Guild chat and go to LA. Before the mega servers, i used to say hey guys claw is up in guild chat. If no one was on i went to LA, there use to be a reason to sit in LA. We use to do the same thing for WvW.

So no you didnt have to use timers before, also you can do many many of the bosses with a few people. Its why i dont say you can blame VB because if you have 2-3 friends with you. You can go after a boss at night with a small group.

Cant do that with in the other 3 maps, the OP is trying to solo. Torso Reaper above me comments on the trains you do to finish Maguuma.

Thats not how it should be, if HOT was actually harder they bosses and monsters you face would be actually stronger. No instead all the HOT content is group based.

Then they throw a bunch of monsters out who have simply 1 shot mechanics or SP with monsters with tons of HP.

Like ive said before, im ok with saying HOT isnt for everyone. Telling the OP to L2P in a system that requires X to do Y to do Z which helps you do X is terrible.

The idea that LFG system TOOL is necessary to learn, to do things says something about the 3 maps. Your doing what Anet did to eles in PvP. Learn to play shout/support/healbot or play something else.

And I don’t use timers now. I say in Guild chat hey I’m going to do the meta in TD anyone interested and people who are interested join. Same with AB and Dragon Stands. The rewards aren’t interesting enough in VB to make anyone annouce it though. If you get T4 you get a chest piece for the armor set which most of us got a long time ago.

The point is, there’s no difference between a timer for Jormag or a timer for TD. WE’ve had timers long before HoT. You can announce HoT events in guild chat. So besides you not liking HOT what’s actually the difference?

I’ve done trains twice to finish maguuma. I’ve finished it on six characters, and that’s completing all four zones.

I’ve completed VB on over 20 characters. I’ve finished AB on nearly that many. I don’t train.

You can duo upwards of 90% of the content. You don’t need a train to do it, any more than you need a train to do temples in Orr.

You need a timer site, and you need LFG tool to get to metas, if you have to do the meta.

For example, a lot of people still think you need to get to night to get to the canopy in VB, which isn’t true. There are NO POIs in AB that require the meta to get. None. Zero.

There is exactly ONE POI in VB locked behind an event which occurs after the meta. Two people that are good can do that event, but three people certainly an do it and it’s done all the time. How is three people a zerg.

You’re talking through your dislike of the map, but I’ll put my money where my mouth is. I’ll show you how to do it if you don’t believe me. I’m relatively sure we can 2 man most of the zones.

There are two hero points in VB that are done regularly just by saying something in map chat. Or taking a third person. Or making sure you can break bars efficiently with two people.

You do not need to zerg, you don’t need full map, and you can go through all the HOT zones. Look I’m not saying it’s as easy as the core game. But saying you can play Guild Wars 2 without timers in the past because you can announce something in guild chat is just silly. What’s stopping anyone from announcing HOT content in Guild Chat.

The fact is more people will say I’m doing Dragon Stand in my guild than are saying I’m doing the Frozen More or the Shatterer.

To be fair there were no excessive farming warnings or horrible minimap interaction warnings when I bought HoT……

Difficulty level of enemies is fine

IndigoSundown.5419:

So, game companies need to put disclaimers on their games that say: “CAUTION: Game content may be harder than you’re used to!”?

Games that are overly challenging usually like to point out you’re going to fail, but that’s usually done to advertise to a different crowd.

IndigoSundown.5419:

How about, instead, consumers take responsibility for their own choices?

Anyone that tries the free game and likes it is probably going to buy HoT without question, just as many pre-purchased without any information. It’s actually better to purchase it and not like it than to not purchase at all, because that way you can send a clear message. For those that don’t like, simply request a refund (if purchased direct).

kdaddy.5431:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

Except that, as has been pointed out repeatedly here, the OP’s complaint is about soloing the story, not the zones as a whole. The story is soloable. If one has played a game for only a week or two, and cannot solo content that is designed for solo play, it might be a function of one’s mastery of one’s chosen character.

There are MANY players on the forums that complain about not being able to complete various parts of the story. And as I have said many times – in my opinion the story should be able to be enjoyed by everyone, not just those who have a certain mastery of their character. Challenge should be relegated to separate places in the game where those who prefer a higher challenge can go seek it.

I understand your opinion, but, in my opinion, it is reasonable to expect players to know how to play the game with some degree of understanding in order to complete max level content.

I would expect a new buyer of the game who insta-leveled to 80 immediately after purchase to struggle with max level content in any game.

The only way for max level content to be guaranteed to be fully accessible to anyone, regardless of lack of experience with the game, would be for it to consist entirely of dialogue and cutscenes. To stop being a game. Admittedly interactive storytelling does not need to be a game, but GW2 is one.

Once again i will write that there needs to be a place for this harder content.

Guess what there is alot of PvP players in this game who straight quit because they get handled. I had 2 guild mates who were digging PvP this season. One started 7-3 was put at 1700 rating and then on his 11th game was place against ESL level players and was shut out 500-0. Didnt come back to PvP.

Another guild mate was in silver pushing to gold and he to was nearly in gold, maybe 150 rating away from it. He has played around 60 matches, his next game was 500-0. He was shocked and added 2 players from the enemy team to his friends list and they were in high gold.

There is a time and place, im sorry that i dont agree with some of the logic you guys are using. Im sorry that just because Anet did this style, means i have to agree with it.

No, its a bad set up, a bad design and people should not be told to L2P in starting areas of a map.

You keep talking max- level content, i dont even understand because non of it is actually hard. For me personally i walk threw most of it, ive solo most of the champions and skill points.

But having played with some guild mates who absouletly hate HOT maps, having played with people who struggle with the PvE content, i simply try to understand what is happening and break it down.

You are not, you are trying to say this is high level/difficult content and people should L2P or adjust there style.

Which is fine for you but that would be like me saying if you are not a top 100 player in PvP you can not speak about it because you are not at my level therefore you do not understand the game play as well as i do.

Which is why im pointing out you guys are wrong with the how this thread has gone.

I mean its not like Anet didnt give Mordremoth a challenge mode for you “high level content” players. Seriously, this isnt the first complaint about the story mode or living story coming from players who just want to play the game.

My goodness its story mode, if the OP was struggling with 98-99-100 fractal so be it, tell him to L2P. Raids fine tell him to L2P, hey even the precious meta events go ahead say L2P.

But for the basic story mode and exploring? Come on get that stick out of there.

People are not being asked to learn to play in a starting area. It is being suggested that they might need to learn to play if they are going to max level veteran end game content.

Since ‘learn to play’ is used by some people use as an insult, I would rather say that that the story mode offers a different challenge that requires you to do more than spam, you need to think a bit about your skills and how you play and adapt to the encounter – as everyone who has completed it has had to do.

The alternative is that every fight is easy enough that even new players can complete with no such effort, even with end of expansion bosses – and what a dull dull unsatisfying game that would be.

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

Except that, as has been pointed out repeatedly here, the OP’s complaint is about soloing the story, not the zones as a whole. The story is soloable. If one has played a game for only a week or two, and cannot solo content that is designed for solo play, it might be a function of one’s mastery of one’s chosen character.

There are MANY players on the forums that complain about not being able to complete various parts of the story. And as I have said many times – in my opinion the story should be able to be enjoyed by everyone, not just those who have a certain mastery of their character. Challenge should be relegated to separate places in the game where those who prefer a higher challenge can go seek it.

I understand your opinion, but, in my opinion, it is reasonable to expect players to know how to play the game with some degree of understanding in order to complete max level content.

I would expect a new buyer of the game who insta-leveled to 80 immediately after purchase to struggle with max level content in any game.

The only way for max level content to be guaranteed to be fully accessible to anyone, regardless of lack of experience with the game, would be for it to consist entirely of dialogue and cutscenes. To stop being a game. Admittedly interactive storytelling does not need to be a game, but GW2 is one.

“Max level” in GW2 doesn’t mean the same thing it means in other MMOs. In GW2 it rains XP – anyone can get their character to max level in a very short time and without having to play enough to learn their character very well. Since Anet created this scenario of players being inexperienced at max level, why did they also create content where players are expected to be experienced with their characters? That’s completely contradictory. What are players supposed to do when they reach max level but play in level 80 zones? And of course they are going to want to go to HoT. They will want Elite Specialization and the fastest way to get that is with the 10HP Hero Challenges in HoT. Nevermind that’s most of the players are.

So people may be correct that Anet created HoT to be challenging, but it doesn’t seem like a great move for this game.

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

Except that, as has been pointed out repeatedly here, the OP’s complaint is about soloing the story, not the zones as a whole. The story is soloable. If one has played a game for only a week or two, and cannot solo content that is designed for solo play, it might be a function of one’s mastery of one’s chosen character.

There are MANY players on the forums that complain about not being able to complete various parts of the story. And as I have said many times – in my opinion the story should be able to be enjoyed by everyone, not just those who have a certain mastery of their character. Challenge should be relegated to separate places in the game where those who prefer a higher challenge can go seek it.

I understand your opinion, but, in my opinion, it is reasonable to expect players to know how to play the game with some degree of understanding in order to complete max level content.

I would expect a new buyer of the game who insta-leveled to 80 immediately after purchase to struggle with max level content in any game.

The only way for max level content to be guaranteed to be fully accessible to anyone, regardless of lack of experience with the game, would be for it to consist entirely of dialogue and cutscenes. To stop being a game. Admittedly interactive storytelling does not need to be a game, but GW2 is one.

“Max level” in GW2 doesn’t mean the same thing it means in other MMOs. In GW2 it rains XP – anyone can get their character to max level in a very short time and without having to play enough to learn their character very well. Since Anet created this scenario of players being inexperienced at max level, why did they also create content where players are expected to be experienced with their characters? That’s completely contradictory. What are players supposed to do when they reach max level but play in level 80 zones? And of course they are going to want to go to HoT. They will want Elite Specialization and the fastest way to get that is with the 10HP Hero Challenges in HoT. Nevermind that’s most of the players are.

So people may be correct that Anet created HoT to be challenging, but it doesn’t seem like a great move for this game.

Solid point about max level in GW2 being different than max level in some other games. The core content, as pointed out by others, does not do a very good job of teaching people to play.

That said, I do see a difference between core max level content and content released years later to challenge those for whom core max level content was no longer challenging. The new content was bridged, for we who were around at the time, by LS2. Perhaps a part of the problem is a lack of guidance for brand new players and lack of access to the bridge content.

I think that much of this could have been avoided had there been a better learning curve in the core content.

Finally, I hope the OP, even if unwilling to take my offer of assistance, reached out to, or found someone to aid with build or gearing advice.

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

Except that, as has been pointed out repeatedly here, the OP’s complaint is about soloing the story, not the zones as a whole. The story is soloable. If one has played a game for only a week or two, and cannot solo content that is designed for solo play, it might be a function of one’s mastery of one’s chosen character.

There are MANY players on the forums that complain about not being able to complete various parts of the story. And as I have said many times – in my opinion the story should be able to be enjoyed by everyone, not just those who have a certain mastery of their character. Challenge should be relegated to separate places in the game where those who prefer a higher challenge can go seek it.

I understand your opinion, but, in my opinion, it is reasonable to expect players to know how to play the game with some degree of understanding in order to complete max level content.

I would expect a new buyer of the game who insta-leveled to 80 immediately after purchase to struggle with max level content in any game.

The only way for max level content to be guaranteed to be fully accessible to anyone, regardless of lack of experience with the game, would be for it to consist entirely of dialogue and cutscenes. To stop being a game. Admittedly interactive storytelling does not need to be a game, but GW2 is one.

“Max level” in GW2 doesn’t mean the same thing it means in other MMOs. In GW2 it rains XP – anyone can get their character to max level in a very short time and without having to play enough to learn their character very well. Since Anet created this scenario of players being inexperienced at max level, why did they also create content where players are expected to be experienced with their characters? That’s completely contradictory. What are players supposed to do when they reach max level but play in level 80 zones? And of course they are going to want to go to HoT. They will want Elite Specialization and the fastest way to get that is with the 10HP Hero Challenges in HoT. Nevermind that’s most of the players are.

So people may be correct that Anet created HoT to be challenging, but it doesn’t seem like a great move for this game.

Great move or not … we are stuck with that. We make the best of it … at least some of us. While others moan continuously about something that isn’t going to change. I guess some people happier when … not happy.

Why did Anet create content where players are expected to be experienced with their characters while allowing people to be inexperienced at max level? That’s an easy one … because this is an MMO. While most people look down upon those that need to be carried, the nature of the MMO actually encourages it, especially in this one. I know several people that don’t know the most basic things related to their builds … yet they have more achievements and finished HoT much faster than I did … and they did it by teaming and having fun with their friends. Imagine that … the old “MMO = player co-operation” thing creeping back in there again and again. Almost like a …. theme that’s persistent with the MMO style of gaming. Amazing ay?

Max level in this game is indeed different form Max level in other games. But then, this isn’t other games, as we know. In other games, the game is hidden behind instances and the open world is mostly about leveling. Once you level you sit in cities and wait for queues to do instances. This game is more centered on the open world, which means the open world requires an end game.

Surely there was content between the launch of the core game and HoT. Southsun is a newer zone (and harder than anything in core Tyria). Drytop and Silverwastes both have upgraded difficulty over core Tyria too.

Likewise, dungeons have existed from launch and Fractals from shortly after launch. These are harder.

The Living Story Season 2 stories, particularly the later ones, are harder then the stuff in the personal story.

New people don’t have a roadmap in this game which explains to them, that HOt content is harder than core content and require more preparation and knowledge and maybe that warning should be in game.

Before you play HOT maybe a window should pop up to say this is end game content and you’re expected to know your profession, how to move while casting, how to dodge, and how to break breakbars.

That should link to tutorials for each, particularly break bars.

That kind of warning should be in the game.

But having played through Living Story Season 2, and doing not only the bosses but the achievements, I felt better prepared for HOT stuff than a new player might.

Which doesn’t mean HoT can’t be soloed.