Guild Wars 2

Sad to hear your HoT experience was so poor, Saephaan. I’m not an elite gamer myself, by any means, and I initially had trouble getting anywhere in VB when I first got HoT.

That being said, I think it’s deeply unfair that you and so many other accuse HoT of being geared towards “hardcore” players. It really…. isn’t, by my estimation at least. I’ve played a goodly number of games, and HoT is pretty forgiving by many standards. Such a huge percentage of encounters in this entire game are soloable, and in reasonable time too. I’ve soloed plenty of ostensibly group-oriented combat in other games, but it would always take a long time because I’d have to run a tank or healer to just survive the hits properly.

I think the most accurate thing to say is not that HoT is a difficult experience, but that core GW2 is an incredibly easy one. If that core easy experience is what you were looking for in HoT, then yeah, you’re definitely not going to have a good time in the jungle.

I have recently come back after playing at launch but was busy in a certain other mmo and dropped the game, GW2 has always been installed though and kept updated as I knew I would go back when I was done with raiding etc in wow.

I finally leveled my ranger 80 and have been blown away by the game and sad I did not stick with the game originally, finished the main story and spent a fair bit on gems expanding inventory and buying living season 2 and I also bought HoT before I had finished around level 60, I was about to put down on a second game, my wife loves the original and for a non game player, she has banged some serious hours into the original, she just loves the world completion side of it and the hearts, in turn she has got my daughter interested as well and it has turned into a family affair on a evening which has been great.

My hardcore days are long left behind in wow and this is why I came back, the original game is brilliant for the casual solo player or just playing with my family and we have fun doing it which has been amazing, I cant thank Anet enough for this.

I decided to skip the living story season 2 to get my gliding sorted and then go back and do it, my initial impression of HoT is wtf as it really does flip the game and changes to something totally different.

HoT is just frustration and not fun, you just get on with it the best you can and grind it out, it forces you to change play style but not to one that’s enjoyable or fun and again its just more frustration after playing 80 levels a certain way, a lot of it is also based on the grouping of players which more often and not I find my self in overflow maps with not enough to complete the main events which again is just wasting precious play time, and creating boredom.

I would stick it out if the wife would carry on playing but she has no interest in HoT after seeing me play it and I guess we will all be moving on to a different game or to wow once she hits 80.

For me HoT just removes all the things I love about the original game, it seems rushed and badly thought out, it seems it was designed for the few and not the many.

April.2468:

I have recently come back after playing at launch but was busy in a certain other mmo and dropped the game, GW2 has always been installed though and kept updated as I knew I would go back when I was done with raiding etc in wow.

I finally leveled my ranger 80 and have been blown away by the game and sad I did not stick with the game originally, finished the main story and spent a fair bit on gems expanding inventory and buying living season 2 and I also bought HoT before I had finished around level 60, I was about to put down on a second game, my wife loves the original and for a non game player, she has banged some serious hours into the original, she just loves the world completion side of it and the hearts, in turn she has got my daughter interested as well and it has turned into a family affair on a evening which has been great.

My hardcore days are long left behind in wow and this is why I came back, the original game is brilliant for the casual solo player or just playing with my family and we have fun doing it which has been amazing, I cant thank Anet enough for this.

I decided to skip the living story season 2 to get my gliding sorted and then go back and do it, my initial impression of HoT is wtf as it really does flip the game and changes to something totally different.

HoT is just frustration and not fun, you just get on with it the best you can and grind it out, it forces you to change play style but not to one that’s enjoyable or fun and again its just more frustration after playing 80 levels a certain way, a lot of it is also based on the grouping of players which more often and not I find my self in overflow maps with not enough to complete the main events which again is just wasting precious play time, and creating boredom.

I would stick it out if the wife would carry on playing but she has no interest in HoT after seeing me play it and I guess we will all be moving on to a different game or to wow once she hits 80.

For me HoT just removes all the things I love about the original game, it seems rushed and badly thought out, it seems it was designed for the few and not the many.

The thing is, if you’d played through LS 2, you’d probably have been more prepared for HOT. Like virtually all games, this game is a progression.

What you did, and this is partly Anet’s fault, is you jumped from great 7 to great 11, without passing through the grades between. So the difficulty jump would seem absurd.

When things get gradually harder, then people are much better at handling it than if they just skip ahead.

LS 2 really needed to come with HoT, because the jump from core to HOT is too drastic.

Vayne.8563:

When things get gradually harder, then people are much better at handling it than if they just skip ahead.

LS 2 really needed to come with HoT, because the jump from core to HOT is too drastic.

This, a thousand times over. While I was able to (relatively quickly) make the transition from core to HoT without the benefit of LS2, I can see how that would be a great bridge between the core game and the expansion.

When all is said and done, however, adding in LS2 (or any sort of difficulty ratcheting, however paced) is ultimately a departure from the stroll-in-the-park feeling of ease that attracts so many to core GW2. I’m not sure that even if they feel less overwhelmed by HoT thanks to a transitional phase, players who really feel wedded to the core game’s casualness would change their minds about HoT’s enjoyability, since HoT itself would remain a step above the core game’s challenge.

Do you like excessive farming requirements? if so you might like HOT

Do you like expansions that repackage core content and release them behind a paywall(guild buffs, fractal rewards) if so you might like HOT

Do you like gold sinks(guild hall, some mastery points) if so you might like HOT

Do you like Nintendo style gaming? if so you might like HOT

Do you like mazes or memorizing maps? if so you might like HOT

Do you like hyped features of this expansion being delayed while Anet works on the next expansion? if so you might like HOT

Dashingsteel.3410:

Do you like excessive farming requirements? if so you might like HOT

Do you like expansions that repackage core content and release them behind a paywall(guild buffs, fractal rewards) if so you might like HOT

Do you like gold sinks(guild hall, some mastery points) if so you might like HOT

Do you like Nintendo style gaming? if so you might like HOT

Do you like mazes or memorizing maps? if so you might like HOT

Do you like hyped features of this expansion being delayed while Anet works on the next expansion? if so you might like HOT

One a one sided story. Here’s the other side of the story:

Do you like more difficult open world content that requires you to do more than press 1, rinse and repeat? Then you might like HOT.

Do you like maps that make you think, that work as puzzles, that let you explore in an area that actually feels like it’s dangerous? Then you might like HOT.

Do you like horizontal progression that lets you feel like you’re actually making progress? Then you might like HOT.

Do you like meta events that require some sort of coordination? Then you might like HOT.

Do you like raiding? Then you might like HOT.

This is an easy game to play. You don’t like HOT. I get it. Plenty of people like it, however, and not for the reasons you list.

voltaicbore.8012:

When all is said and done, however, adding in LS2 (or any sort of difficulty ratcheting, however paced) is ultimately a departure from the stroll-in-the-park feeling of ease that attracts so many to core GW2. I’m not sure that even if they feel less overwhelmed by HoT thanks to a transitional phase, players who really feel wedded to the core game’s casualness would change their minds about HoT’s enjoyability, since HoT itself would remain a step above the core game’s challenge.

It’s a fair point. Perhaps HoT was just designed for slightly more invested players. Kind of, ANet wanting to increase the spectrum of casualness their game offers.

Feanor.2358:

voltaicbore.8012:

When all is said and done, however, adding in LS2 (or any sort of difficulty ratcheting, however paced) is ultimately a departure from the stroll-in-the-park feeling of ease that attracts so many to core GW2. I’m not sure that even if they feel less overwhelmed by HoT thanks to a transitional phase, players who really feel wedded to the core game’s casualness would change their minds about HoT’s enjoyability, since HoT itself would remain a step above the core game’s challenge.

It’s a fair point. Perhaps HoT was just designed for slightly more invested players. Kind of, ANet wanting to increase the spectrum of casualness their game offers.

I’d almost agree with that, except that I can play HOT casually and I have people in my guild who do it too.

Let’s say I go to metrica province. I do events. I gather stuff. I run around. It may be harder, but it’s not impossible.

So a casual player spends more time in VB and AB than TD, but I have a guild full of casuals who play HoT some of the time. And yes some solo it.

You’re talking about things like meta events, on timers, and having to use LFG.

Well if you stay in a map, sooner or later, the meta will start, and most of the time, if you’re in the map a long time, people will come and play it.

I mean it’s not like you didn’t need a timer site for SB or any other world boss. You’ve needed those for years.

It’s not like there’s any timer for Orr temples. You just have to be there.

There’s this fallacy floating around that all there is in HoT maps is a single meta. It’s not true.

I can do events in VB and TD and get currency for them or in the case of VB crowbars and run around and open chests. That’s how I pretty much play the new zones.

It’s perfect for two people actually if you duo, like my wife and I.

You can absolutely play HOT casually if that’s your choice. It’s when people convince themselves that it can’t be done, or that it’s only about a meta that the issues start to arise.

I didn’t say it’s not casual, I said it’s a different type of casual. In my opinion, it is targeted toward slightly more invested players, the type more likely to join in guilds and be active in communities rather than wander and explore solo.

Of course, it is still far from hardcore content.

Also, this isn’t actually a bad thing. It’s making the game more diverse, it has to offer something to a wider spectrum of users. Personally, I love the new maps. They get me more involved and they are more rewarding to play, both in loot and feel.

Feanor.2358:

I didn’t say it’s not casual, I said it’s a different type of casual. In my opinion, it is targeted toward slightly more invested players, the type more likely to join in guilds and be active in communities rather than wander and explore solo.

Of course, it is still far from hardcore content.

Also, this isn’t actually a bad thing. It’s making the game more diverse, it has to offer something to a wider spectrum of users. Personally, I love the new maps. They get me more involved and they are more rewarding to play, both in loot and feel.

Right but I’ve played with many casuals who said, I can’t do this, I don’t like this, and then I showed them around and suddenly they were able to do it, and it was fine. That’s my point.

Half the problem is the rhetoric. It’s like a bunch of people repeating stuff they’ve heard, or they have a bad experience early on and never tried it again after that big patch last April.

It is more like Orr than it is like Queensdale, that’s true.

But it’s just not as hard as some people are making it out to be, even if you’re just an average player.

Oh, I agree with that completely.

Another thing that probably throws people off is how big mastery progression plays into it. Playing VB with full gliding is a lot easier and more fun than with just basic (or no) gliding like when you first get there. By the time you have the masteries unlocked if you have moved on because the maps were too hard, go back and try again. The early impression may now be wrong.

I think that if the Raids were accessible to casual by having different difficulty levels with scaled rewards or drop rates then it could have really helped with the reception of HoT.

Having to search 2 hours to find a team for a raid and have people rage as they get wiped over and over made me hate the entire concept of raiding.

Again it’s a question of implementation. Having only 5% of your players playing your new content is NOT good.

There is all the other problems with raids too, like the fact that raids have no exploration or special armor sets (see GW1 hardcore content); it’s just a series of boss fights and you’re personal skill as a player doesn’t matter a it’s just a dps race.

Then there is PvP. The only made 1 map and gave up on their game mode. I expected at least 4 Stronghold maps with HoT. It was even advertised as GvG when they announced it.

WvW… where to start?

April.2468:

I have recently come back after playing at launch but was busy in a certain other mmo and dropped the game, GW2 has always been installed though and kept updated as I knew I would go back when I was done with raiding etc in wow.

I finally leveled my ranger 80 and have been blown away by the game and sad I did not stick with the game originally, finished the main story and spent a fair bit on gems expanding inventory and buying living season 2 and I also bought HoT before I had finished around level 60, I was about to put down on a second game, my wife loves the original and for a non game player, she has banged some serious hours into the original, she just loves the world completion side of it and the hearts, in turn she has got my daughter interested as well and it has turned into a family affair on a evening which has been great.

My hardcore days are long left behind in wow and this is why I came back, the original game is brilliant for the casual solo player or just playing with my family and we have fun doing it which has been amazing, I cant thank Anet enough for this.

I decided to skip the living story season 2 to get my gliding sorted and then go back and do it, my initial impression of HoT is wtf as it really does flip the game and changes to something totally different.

HoT is just frustration and not fun, you just get on with it the best you can and grind it out, it forces you to change play style but not to one that’s enjoyable or fun and again its just more frustration after playing 80 levels a certain way, a lot of it is also based on the grouping of players which more often and not I find my self in overflow maps with not enough to complete the main events which again is just wasting precious play time, and creating boredom.

I would stick it out if the wife would carry on playing but she has no interest in HoT after seeing me play it and I guess we will all be moving on to a different game or to wow once she hits 80.

For me HoT just removes all the things I love about the original game, it seems rushed and badly thought out, it seems it was designed for the few and not the many.

Nothing in hot is as difficult as the harder missions in GW1 that yoru wife probably played. It really is a case of them dumbing down the original, and most of the harder content being something many players never try any more.
Hot is not harder than most of the vanilla dungeons in GW2 if you played them without people who have mastered them.

getting to 80 is super easy, and most of the challenging parts of story, and the open world were nerfed.

It would be nice if they had a more understandable progression system. But there was a long time and a lot content, some of which disappeared, that makes HOT not so crazy.

Also id say one big problem is that verdant brink is not well designed for when you have no masteries at all. At the time when the map is the most confusing, you have very few tools to navigate it well. Usually they would guide you better until you have the needed abilities, but anet kind of just throws you in there in general to explore.

Its actually pretty entertaining later on though, when you have some masteries and are more used to the enemies.

voltaicbore.8012:

While I was able to (relatively quickly) make the transition from core to HoT without the benefit of LS2, I can see how that would be a great bridge between the core game and the expansion.

A Living Story season is temporary. An expansion is permanent. I played LS2 but still do not like HoT for the same reasons as April.

I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”

Djinn.9245:

I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”

Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.

Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”

Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.

Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.

any mmo needs bread and butter content to keep the wheels turning
if they spend all the resources on niche content, there will only be niche players
left to pay the bills
i still miss tyria…and i still blame mordy

battledrone.8315:

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”

Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.

Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.

any mmo needs bread and butter content to keep the wheels turning
if they spend all the resources on niche content, there will only be niche players
left to pay the bills
i still miss tyria…and i still blame mordy

I don’t believe that HOT is niche content. It may not be universally liked content, but that was true of core Tyria as well. Plenty of people expressed boredom while leveling in core Tyria. Not everyone had the same experience.

HoT provides an experience that is not the same as core Tyria, but that doesn’t make it niche content. I believe more people play HoT than most who don’t like it believe. Certainly plenty of people in my casual guild play hot relatively regularly.

Raids, however, I do believe are niche content.

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”

Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.

Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.

My comment was about people putting words in others’ mouths. But I’ll bite – it’s a universal adage that you can’t please all of the people all of the time. So: “of course.”

But I disagree that adding different content to a game is ultimately good. GW2 started as a game that encouraged exploring, play your own way, and was fairly easy ramping up to difficult in Orr / Southsun (talking about my standards). Truly challenging content was relegated to Dungeons (talking about the past), Fractals, and some Story boss fights. (Sad that I have to put disclaimers that this is my POV in my own post. And people will probably still argue with it.)

The player base for GW2 obviously enjoyed the game or they would not have played it from 9/2012 to 10/2015. When a new expansion was announced, I assumed it would be on the same level as what was already proved a success and enjoyed by the players. Instead I got platforming, 3D maps that I could not find my way around, and packed with deadly mobs with cc (remember, this is my POV). I had been introduced to a more 3D map with Drytop and I didn’t even like that. HoT is an order of magnitude worse. I was stunned that Anet created an entire expansion that was so completely different from the core game. And very disappointed that there wasn’t more of what I already was enjoying.

There is also an old adage: “jack of all trades, master of none”. As you said, you can’t please all of the people. In trying to appeal to everyone, GW2 doesn’t have enough content that any particular player base enjoys. Why would players that are looking for a challenging MMO come to GW2 which was comparatively easy for 3 years? On the other hand, GW2 had a good player base which enjoyed what it already was doing. But has now provided those players with no expansion to date that they enjoy.

At this point, I only go back to HoT for a daily or because I need something for a collection. I did a Tarir meta last night that actually failed the first try (3 wings were slow while one burned blindly away) – something I had never seen before. I actually left Tarir at that point because I didn’t know there was a recovery from that. Luckily there were a couple of vets who knew what to do and we eventually succeeded (at the last possible second). I see people in Map chat begging for help with various HP. In that same map there was only 1 person attempting to do the pylons for one of the directions. Etc. Apparently there aren’t enough people who actually enjoy the HoT maps to keep them populated on a regular basis. Wasted content – so no, I don’t think it was good for Anet to add this different content.

Djinn.9245:

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”

Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.

Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.

My comment was about people putting words in others’ mouths. But I’ll bite – it’s a universal adage that you can’t please all of the people all of the time. So: “of course.”

But I disagree that adding different content to a game is ultimately good. GW2 started as a game that encouraged exploring, play your own way, and was fairly easy ramping up to difficult in Orr / Southsun (talking about my standards). Truly challenging content was relegated to Dungeons (talking about the past), Fractals, and some Story boss fights. (Sad that I have to put disclaimers that this is my POV in my own post. And people will probably still argue with it.)

The player base for GW2 obviously enjoyed the game or they would not have played it from 9/2012 to 10/2015. When a new expansion was announced, I assumed it would be on the same level as what was already proved a success and enjoyed by the players. Instead I got platforming, 3D maps that I could not find my way around, and packed with deadly mobs with cc (remember, this is my POV). I had been introduced to a more 3D map with Drytop and I didn’t even like that. HoT is an order of magnitude worse. I was stunned that Anet created an entire expansion that was so completely different from the core game. And very disappointed that there wasn’t more of what I already was enjoying.

There is also an old adage: “jack of all trades, master of none”. As you said, you can’t please all of the people. In trying to appeal to everyone, GW2 doesn’t have enough content that any particular player base enjoys. Why would players that are looking for a challenging MMO come to GW2 which was comparatively easy for 3 years? On the other hand, GW2 had a good player base which enjoyed what it already was doing. But has now provided those players with no expansion to date that they enjoy.

At this point, I only go back to HoT for a daily or because I need something for a collection. I did a Tarir meta last night that actually failed the first try (3 wings were slow while one burned blindly away) – something I had never seen before. I actually left Tarir at that point because I didn’t know there was a recovery from that. Luckily there were a couple of vets who knew what to do and we eventually succeeded (at the last possible second). I see people in Map chat begging for help with various HP. In that same map there was only 1 person attempting to do the pylons for one of the directions. Etc. Apparently there aren’t enough people who actually enjoy the HoT maps to keep them populated on a regular basis. Wasted content – so no, I don’t think it was good for Anet to add this different content.

Well said!

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”

Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.

Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.

any mmo needs bread and butter content to keep the wheels turning
if they spend all the resources on niche content, there will only be niche players
left to pay the bills
i still miss tyria…and i still blame mordy

I don’t believe that HOT is niche content. It may not be universally liked content, but that was true of core Tyria as well. Plenty of people expressed boredom while leveling in core Tyria. Not everyone had the same experience.

HoT provides an experience that is not the same as core Tyria, but that doesn’t make it niche content. I believe more people play HoT than most who don’t like it believe. Certainly plenty of people in my casual guild play hot relatively regularly.

Raids, however, I do believe are niche content.

if it isnt universally liked, then it IS niche content, how else would you define
niche?
lets look at the merits of HoT:
first they fired the director
then they nerfed it
now they have just abandoned it, to work on the next expansion
does that look like a success to you?

I actually didn’t find HoT to be all that difficult – just frustrating. The map design gives me a migraine. That, and the story was pretty – meh… Considering all the hype that went into it, I wasn’t all that impressed and think it hurt the game overall.

Djinn.9245:

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”

Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.

Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.

My comment was about people putting words in others’ mouths. But I’ll bite – it’s a universal adage that you can’t please all of the people all of the time. So: “of course.”

But I disagree that adding different content to a game is ultimately good. GW2 started as a game that encouraged exploring, play your own way, and was fairly easy ramping up to difficult in Orr / Southsun (talking about my standards). Truly challenging content was relegated to Dungeons (talking about the past), Fractals, and some Story boss fights. (Sad that I have to put disclaimers that this is my POV in my own post. And people will probably still argue with it.)

The player base for GW2 obviously enjoyed the game or they would not have played it from 9/2012 to 10/2015. When a new expansion was announced, I assumed it would be on the same level as what was already proved a success and enjoyed by the players. Instead I got platforming, 3D maps that I could not find my way around, and packed with deadly mobs with cc (remember, this is my POV). I had been introduced to a more 3D map with Drytop and I didn’t even like that. HoT is an order of magnitude worse. I was stunned that Anet created an entire expansion that was so completely different from the core game. And very disappointed that there wasn’t more of what I already was enjoying.

There is also an old adage: “jack of all trades, master of none”. As you said, you can’t please all of the people. In trying to appeal to everyone, GW2 doesn’t have enough content that any particular player base enjoys. Why would players that are looking for a challenging MMO come to GW2 which was comparatively easy for 3 years? On the other hand, GW2 had a good player base which enjoyed what it already was doing. But has now provided those players with no expansion to date that they enjoy.

At this point, I only go back to HoT for a daily or because I need something for a collection. I did a Tarir meta last night that actually failed the first try (3 wings were slow while one burned blindly away) – something I had never seen before. I actually left Tarir at that point because I didn’t know there was a recovery from that. Luckily there were a couple of vets who knew what to do and we eventually succeeded (at the last possible second). I see people in Map chat begging for help with various HP. In that same map there was only 1 person attempting to do the pylons for one of the directions. Etc. Apparently there aren’t enough people who actually enjoy the HoT maps to keep them populated on a regular basis. Wasted content – so no, I don’t think it was good for Anet to add this different content.

i still believe, that if they had continued to make more casual zones, they could have
dethroned WoW
tyria was one of the best gaming experiences in my 13+ years in mmos
too bad that it had to end so soon

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”

Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.

Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.

any mmo needs bread and butter content to keep the wheels turning
if they spend all the resources on niche content, there will only be niche players
left to pay the bills
i still miss tyria…and i still blame mordy

I don’t believe that HOT is niche content. It may not be universally liked content, but that was true of core Tyria as well. Plenty of people expressed boredom while leveling in core Tyria. Not everyone had the same experience.

HoT provides an experience that is not the same as core Tyria, but that doesn’t make it niche content. I believe more people play HoT than most who don’t like it believe. Certainly plenty of people in my casual guild play hot relatively regularly.

Raids, however, I do believe are niche content.

if it isnt universally liked, then it IS niche content, how else would you define
niche?
lets look at the merits of HoT:
first they fired the director
then they nerfed it
now they have just abandoned it, to work on the next expansion
does that look like a success to you?

Leveling in core Tyria wasn’t universally liked. By your definition Core Tyria is niche content.

They didn’t fire the director. He left for a job with Amazon. Had they fired him, after they announced he was leaving they wouldn’t have allowed him to participate in an AMA. Colin left of his own accord. Saying he was fired is simply not true.

They didn’t particularly nerf HOT, except for the TD meta. They added some veteran events, and thinned out a couple of paths.

They haven’t abandoned HoT, they’ve moved onto the living story. They did make major changes to the last story episode of HOT only recently, and they’ve added current events in HOT, and even a new raid wing. Not sure how you can say HOT was abandoned.

The fact is, there are still plenty of people playing HoT. Anyone who doesn’t play HOT has no real idea how many people are still playing. Even off times, there are people there doing event chains, and if you use a timer site and LFG, there are people doing the metas as well, at all hours of the day and night.

Saying something is abandoned doesn’t actually make it abandoned.

Guys look at the bright side at least now they know what they shouldn’t do in next xpacs and better sooner than later

Nole.3017:

Guys look at the bright side at least now they know what they shouldn’t do in next xpacs and better sooner than later

Actually this is a good point, but I’m also worried that Anet will throw about the baby with the bathwater. There are some people who love HoT and there are things in HoT that will probably never be repeated, in spite of that.

I just geared my thief and i’m getting HoT map completion on her. It’s a character i have barely played and i only got the Daredevil elite spec yesterday. With full berserker armor i decided to start with VB. I was surprised at home many people were still there. When i asked in mapchat to do the vampire Hero Point, loads of people answered and together we killed it. I was moving through the map without too much effort and could easily handle a group of mobs. I’m by no means an amazing player, it just takes experience and learning some basic class mechanics. Just need to learn how to deal with the different enemies.

The maps in HoT are confusing, but that’s what makes them so fantastic. I remember on my first playthrough i just loved getting lost in the jungle, and the jungle feeling like an actual threat and something dangerous i needed to keep my attention on. Now that i’m getting the map completion on alts, i dont find the map frustrating at all. Once you get an idea of it and get the right masteries, traversing the jungle can be done swiftly. Took me about an hour and a half today to get map completion on my thief.

For me HoT added the kind of challenging content that i desperately needed. I had pretty much done everything in the game before and the endgame maps in core tyria just felt like a joke after a while. I mean, it’s been a few years since i’ve feel threatened in Orr. I understand it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but me and a lot of guildies and friends around me wouldn’t be playing today if it handt been for raids and the harder HoT content.

Vayne.8563:

Nole.3017:

Guys look at the bright side at least now they know what they shouldn’t do in next xpacs and better sooner than later

Actually this is a good point, but I’m also worried that Anet will throw about the baby with the bathwater. There are some people who love HoT and there are things in HoT that will probably never be repeated, in spite of that.

“some” people are not enough for big budget projects
for those, you need MANY people
and know we know, why nobody tried something like this before
Anet should hire a market researcher (or get a better one)

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”

Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.

Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.

any mmo needs bread and butter content to keep the wheels turning
if they spend all the resources on niche content, there will only be niche players
left to pay the bills
i still miss tyria…and i still blame mordy

I don’t believe that HOT is niche content. It may not be universally liked content, but that was true of core Tyria as well. Plenty of people expressed boredom while leveling in core Tyria. Not everyone had the same experience.

HoT provides an experience that is not the same as core Tyria, but that doesn’t make it niche content. I believe more people play HoT than most who don’t like it believe. Certainly plenty of people in my casual guild play hot relatively regularly.

Raids, however, I do believe are niche content.

if it isnt universally liked, then it IS niche content, how else would you define
niche?
lets look at the merits of HoT:
first they fired the director
then they nerfed it
now they have just abandoned it, to work on the next expansion
does that look like a success to you?

Leveling in core Tyria wasn’t universally liked. By your definition Core Tyria is niche content.

They didn’t fire the director. He left for a job with Amazon. Had they fired him, after they announced he was leaving they wouldn’t have allowed him to participate in an AMA. Colin left of his own accord. Saying he was fired is simply not true.

They didn’t particularly nerf HOT, except for the TD meta. They added some veteran events, and thinned out a couple of paths.

They haven’t abandoned HoT, they’ve moved onto the living story. They did make major changes to the last story episode of HOT only recently, and they’ve added current events in HOT, and even a new raid wing. Not sure how you can say HOT was abandoned.

The fact is, there are still plenty of people playing HoT. Anyone who doesn’t play HOT has no real idea how many people are still playing. Even off times, there are people there doing event chains, and if you use a timer site and LFG, there are people doing the metas as well, at all hours of the day and night.

Saying something is abandoned doesn’t actually make it abandoned.

if it can sell a mio copies a year, then it isnt niche
very few games could do that, even fewer mmos
tyria got people in, HoT scared them away

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”

Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.

Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.

any mmo needs bread and butter content to keep the wheels turning
if they spend all the resources on niche content, there will only be niche players
left to pay the bills
i still miss tyria…and i still blame mordy

I don’t believe that HOT is niche content. It may not be universally liked content, but that was true of core Tyria as well. Plenty of people expressed boredom while leveling in core Tyria. Not everyone had the same experience.

HoT provides an experience that is not the same as core Tyria, but that doesn’t make it niche content. I believe more people play HoT than most who don’t like it believe. Certainly plenty of people in my casual guild play hot relatively regularly.

Raids, however, I do believe are niche content.

if it isnt universally liked, then it IS niche content, how else would you define
niche?
lets look at the merits of HoT:
first they fired the director
then they nerfed it
now they have just abandoned it, to work on the next expansion
does that look like a success to you?

Leveling in core Tyria wasn’t universally liked. By your definition Core Tyria is niche content.

They didn’t fire the director. He left for a job with Amazon. Had they fired him, after they announced he was leaving they wouldn’t have allowed him to participate in an AMA. Colin left of his own accord. Saying he was fired is simply not true.

They didn’t particularly nerf HOT, except for the TD meta. They added some veteran events, and thinned out a couple of paths.

They haven’t abandoned HoT, they’ve moved onto the living story. They did make major changes to the last story episode of HOT only recently, and they’ve added current events in HOT, and even a new raid wing. Not sure how you can say HOT was abandoned.

The fact is, there are still plenty of people playing HoT. Anyone who doesn’t play HOT has no real idea how many people are still playing. Even off times, there are people there doing event chains, and if you use a timer site and LFG, there are people doing the metas as well, at all hours of the day and night.

Saying something is abandoned doesn’t actually make it abandoned.

if it can sell a mio copies a year, then it isnt niche
very few games could do that, even fewer mmos
tyria got people in, HoT scared them away

Until you can produce actual metrics, this is just conjecture on your part. HoT has people in it. Tyria has people in it. Only Anet knows just how much are in either.

More to the point, only Anet knows which group of people are actively supporting the game with cash, as well.

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

Nole.3017:

Guys look at the bright side at least now they know what they shouldn’t do in next xpacs and better sooner than later

Actually this is a good point, but I’m also worried that Anet will throw about the baby with the bathwater. There are some people who love HoT and there are things in HoT that will probably never be repeated, in spite of that.

“some” people are not enough for big budget projects
for those, you need MANY people
and know we know, why nobody tried something like this before
Anet should hire a market researcher (or get a better one)

Some people are mostly all the ever buy an expansion. As I’ve already mentioned elsewhere, we don’t know WHY those people didn’t buy. If price was the biggest indicator, and it might have been, then you can’t tell if the expansion is niche or not.

And if the price and bad publicity in combination drove people to stop playing the game, there’s a decent chance changing the direction again, will kitten off the players there now, rather than the players who have already left.

Sometimes, even if you make a mistake, you can’t go back to how it was.

At any rate, all this really says is you don’t like the expansion so you think not enough people have bought it, for the reasons you don’t like it. That’s not only not proven, but not provable.

Just to add my two cents worth to this forum. I too do not like HOT. The game play is so different from the base game. I was looking forward to being able to do things like the hearts and events if I felt like doing them. In HOT there are no hearts and the events are zone events and if you can not find your way around, you miss out on them. I only ever played the Silverwastes once a month or so because I do not like that kind of game play. I have tried to get around in HOT but in order to do that you have to open your map, and once you open your map, you are mobbed to death! To have an entire expansion based on the same kind of game play like the Silverwastes is very disappointing. Hope the next expansion returns to more game play like the original.

Moonyeti.3296:

Another thing that probably throws people off is how big mastery progression plays into it. Playing VB with full gliding is a lot easier and more fun than with just basic (or no) gliding like when you first get there. By the time you have the masteries unlocked if you have moved on because the maps were too hard, go back and try again. The early impression may now be wrong.

I agree. Having not to worry about your endurance bar while gliding has been a HUGE QoL aspect, even though I did not enjoy the grind to fill the mastery experience bar and am really glad it’s account-bound. It would have been neat if the mastey learning aspect was – at least a bit – tied into doing tasks related to it. This might have not worked for every mastery skill and/or the tier-based structure but with stuff like mushroom bouncing, or maybe the chak acid thingy. But that’s just personal preferance on my part.

Djinn.9245:

Leveling a character to 80 and through the entire Personal Story should teach you all you need to know. If it isn’t, that is Anet’s fault.

Also, where did Anet state that HoT was supposed to be for those who were better players? I don’t remember seeing that at all.

That’s the same as saying :
You go to school for X amount of years. If you are not a genius by the end of it, it’s the schools fault.

The game can show you and teach you a lot of things. But it can’t THINK for you. Mastering a character is a lot more than knowing about the basics(skills, traits, equipment). It needs tactical thinking, experience and the will to adapt to certain situations.

That being said, i could solo all the personal story content, be it core game or expansion.

Blue.2734:

Just to add my two cents worth to this forum. I too do not like HOT. The game play is so different from the base game. I was looking forward to being able to do things like the hearts and events if I felt like doing them. In HOT there are no hearts and the events are zone events and if you can not find your way around, you miss out on them. I only ever played the Silverwastes once a month or so because I do not like that kind of game play. I have tried to get around in HOT but in order to do that you have to open your map, and once you open your map, you are mobbed to death! To have an entire expansion based on the same kind of game play like the Silverwastes is very disappointing. Hope the next expansion returns to more game play like the original.

So just how long are you staring at your map exactly? Presumably, the enemies weren’t there to mob you before you opened your map. So they must be spawning while you’re staring at your map.

Here’s what you do: Next time you want to begin a marathon map-staring session, stand somewhere that enemies don’t spawn. Contrary to players-who-hate-HoT-but-don’t-actually-play-it, this is no more difficult to do than it is in core Tyria and in fact may be a bit easier with gliding, etc. since you can often just glide over to an object that enemies can’t reach.

Somehow I don’t expect this to resolve your issue, though.

Wow, not a very nice person, are you? When you are lost and trying to figure out where you are and where you need to be takes a few minutes and the spawn rate is pretty high for mobs. It is so nice to see there are still the elitist that think their mean and not helpful things to say are okay and just for the record, I have played it, although not as high as some I have seen my mastery level is 23 all zones open with completion between 57 to 96%. If you have nothing nice to say, then please say nothing at all.

Blue.2734:

Wow, not a very nice person, are you? When you are lost and trying to figure out where you are and where you need to be takes a few minutes and the spawn rate is pretty high for mobs. It is so nice to see there are still the elitist that think their mean and not helpful things to say are okay and just for the record, I have played it, although not as high as some I have seen my mastery level is 23 all zones open with completion between 57 to 96%. If you have nothing nice to say, then please say nothing at all.

You don’t really get ‘lost’ you just use the in game map as you have done until you get familiar with the map. If you need a reference you just port back to a WP.

RE mob spawning, find a spot where mobs don’t spawn, then look at maps as much as you like. In other words no need to blame the game when there are perfectly safe solutions available.

For info, Here’s a couple things i bet my bottom dollar people who struggle with mobs don’t do:

use damage reduction food/util (for e.g -10% all dmg taken)
use toughness food/util
use defensive sigils and runes
use condy removal and toughness talents
stronger preference for defensive stats.

This is why people find HOT difficult.

I am pretty sure that people find HoT to be more difficult because that was the developer’s intention for the expansion.

Ashen.2907:

I am pretty sure that people find HoT to be more difficult because that was the developer’s intention for the expansion.

The Devs offered a different challenge from the mobs in existing zones in HOT, otherwise it would simply be different pixels, spam skill x. We already have 30 zones that offer that. My point is players are saying HOT mobs are difficult when actually they are as trivial as you want them to be to the point where they can hardly scratch you. As per comment above if you don’t consider the following then that’s why the mobs are difficult, i.e its like fighting a boss called ‘fire boss’ in armor called ‘melty ice armor’

use damage reduction food/util (for e.g -10% all dmg taken)
use toughness food/util
use defensive Sigils and runes
use condy removal and toughness talents
stronger preference for defensive stats.

Djinn.9245:

But I disagree that adding different content to a game is ultimately good. GW2 started as a game that encouraged exploring, play your own way, and was fairly easy ramping up to difficult in Orr / Southsun (talking about my standards). Truly challenging content was relegated to Dungeons (talking about the past), Fractals, and some Story boss fights. (Sad that I have to put disclaimers that this is my POV in my own post. And people will probably still argue with it.)

I’d argue the difficulty of HoT isn’t that much different. Yeah, it IS harder than Orr, but the player characters are more powerful too, thanks to 4-stat gear and elite specializations. More on that in a minute.

Djinn.9245:

The player base for GW2 obviously enjoyed the game or they would not have played it from 9/2012 to 10/2015.

Here’s the crux of it. What makes you think these are the same players?

Players come and go. Giving them “more of the same” eventually tires them and they leave. Giving something fresh and different I think is better for the health of the game. HoT does that and it does it by playing into a strength of the game – namely, how well the game mechanics work with large number of players. I’ve always liked this about the game. It creates a different feel, and it’s a good one. This by the way addresses your “jack of all trades” comment. I don’t believe it is relevant.

Djinn.9245:

When a new expansion was announced, I assumed it would be on the same level as what was already proved a success and enjoyed by the players. Instead I got platforming, 3D maps that I could not find my way around, and packed with deadly mobs with cc (remember, this is my POV). I had been introduced to a more 3D map with Drytop and I didn’t even like that. HoT is an order of magnitude worse. I was stunned that Anet created an entire expansion that was so completely different from the core game. And very disappointed that there wasn’t more of what I already was enjoying.

That’s hardly ANet’s fault though. Let’s be honest – it was your own choice to dislike the content instead of trying to learn/master it. The maps are easy to navigate and easy to play. Yes, they require you to spend some time there earning the masteries which is questionable. But once you get through that, it’s hardly any harder than Orr.

vesica tempestas.1563:

For info, Here’s a couple things i bet my bottom dollar people who struggle with mobs don’t do:

use damage reduction food/util (for e.g -10% all dmg taken)
use toughness food/util
use defensive sigils and runes
use condy removal and toughness talents
stronger preference for defensive stats.

This is why people find HOT difficult.

I don’t use any of these either. I run full zerk ele with the glass meta build and I find HoT piece of cake. It’s just a matter of learning what the mobs do. After it you know how to deal with them properly, when to dodge, when it’s safe to attack and when to avoid them completely if you’re alone for instance.

ye i know this ^^ but the point is the tools are there for those that want things to be easier.

The content in HoT is fine, it just needed way more of it.

- Elite professions, new skills and trait: not enough variety and effects, not enough new fields and combo effects, terrible balance
- Stronghold: Where are the maps? Why was it sold as GvG?
- PvE: Needs 3-4 times more explorable maps, needs indoor explorable areas, more bosses, a longer quest
- Dungeons: Where are they? Old dungeons needed harder difficulty settings, perhaps new rewards.
- Collections, wardrobe, ingredients, new armors/weaps and rewards? Not enough new items.
- WvW: Everything needed a lot more work there.
- Guild Halls: Where are the larger arenas for GvG that were promised? Needed more work in the implementation.
- Raids: No sense of difficulty scaling, just boss fights with timers. Where are the difficulty settings? Everyone should be able to participate and win proportional amount in rewards.
- Legendary weapons and armors: Released before 2020?

For me it just seems completely rushed out, but it’s just my opinion. For half the price it would have been ok by my expectations. I hope the next xpac has much more than HoT in terms of content.

Blue.2734:

Wow, not a very nice person, are you? When you are lost and trying to figure out where you are and where you need to be takes a few minutes and the spawn rate is pretty high for mobs. It is so nice to see there are still the elitist that think their mean and not helpful things to say are okay and just for the record, I have played it, although not as high as some I have seen my mastery level is 23 all zones open with completion between 57 to 96%. If you have nothing nice to say, then please say nothing at all.

No, that was not a very nice post. I’m not going to respond to it in case it gets removed.

I agree that mobs in HoT are very deadly. Anyone who thinks that mobs in core Tyria are anywhere near as bad (in general) are just not truthful.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Blue.2734:

Wow, not a very nice person, are you? When you are lost and trying to figure out where you are and where you need to be takes a few minutes and the spawn rate is pretty high for mobs. It is so nice to see there are still the elitist that think their mean and not helpful things to say are okay and just for the record, I have played it, although not as high as some I have seen my mastery level is 23 all zones open with completion between 57 to 96%. If you have nothing nice to say, then please say nothing at all.

You don’t really get ‘lost’ you just use the in game map as you have done until you get familiar with the map. If you need a reference you just port back to a WP.

How can you tell someone else that they don’t get lost? O.o

I get lost in HoT all the time and I have been playing in it since it came out. And going back to a WP all the time costs money.

vesica tempestas.1563:

RE mob spawning, find a spot where mobs don’t spawn, then look at maps as much as you like. In other words no need to blame the game when there are perfectly safe solutions available.

If you don’t know the maps well, how do you know a place where mobs don’t spawn?

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

But I disagree that adding different content to a game is ultimately good. GW2 started as a game that encouraged exploring, play your own way, and was fairly easy ramping up to difficult in Orr / Southsun (talking about my standards). Truly challenging content was relegated to Dungeons (talking about the past), Fractals, and some Story boss fights. (Sad that I have to put disclaimers that this is my POV in my own post. And people will probably still argue with it.)

I’d argue the difficulty of HoT isn’t that much different. Yeah, it IS harder than Orr, but the player characters are more powerful too, thanks to 4-stat gear and elite specializations. More on that in a minute.

I don’t have 4-stat gear and it takes time to get Elite specializations. You can either go back to core Tyria and get your Elite specs the long way, or suffer through HoT to get them.

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

The player base for GW2 obviously enjoyed the game or they would not have played it from 9/2012 to 10/2015.

Here’s the crux of it. What makes you think these are the same players?

Players come and go. Giving them “more of the same” eventually tires them and they leave.

Many of us are specifically stating that we wanted more of the same, including my post you are quoting, so idk who you are talking about.

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

When a new expansion was announced, I assumed it would be on the same level as what was already proved a success and enjoyed by the players. Instead I got platforming, 3D maps that I could not find my way around, and packed with deadly mobs with cc (remember, this is my POV). I had been introduced to a more 3D map with Drytop and I didn’t even like that. HoT is an order of magnitude worse. I was stunned that Anet created an entire expansion that was so completely different from the core game. And very disappointed that there wasn’t more of what I already was enjoying.

That’s hardly ANet’s fault though. Let’s be honest – it was your own choice to dislike the content instead of trying to learn/master it.

So I should “learn to like it” like its brocolli or something? This is a game – you know, entertainment? If I don’t like it why should I play it? And of course it is Anet’s fault, they made HoT. If a book is not good, it is the author’s fault, not the reader’s.

Feanor.2358:

The maps are easy to navigate and easy to play. Yes, they require you to spend some time there earning the masteries which is questionable. But once you get through that, it’s hardly any harder than Orr.

I’m glad that you think the maps are easy, there are many people who don’t. This is an opinion – you are allowed to have yours and I have mine. But you can’t change my opinion by simply telling me I am wrong.

Djinn.9245:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Blue.2734:

Wow, not a very nice person, are you? When you are lost and trying to figure out where you are and where you need to be takes a few minutes and the spawn rate is pretty high for mobs. It is so nice to see there are still the elitist that think their mean and not helpful things to say are okay and just for the record, I have played it, although not as high as some I have seen my mastery level is 23 all zones open with completion between 57 to 96%. If you have nothing nice to say, then please say nothing at all.

You don’t really get ‘lost’ you just use the in game map as you have done until you get familiar with the map. If you need a reference you just port back to a WP.

How can you tell someone else that they don’t get lost? O.o

I get lost in HoT all the time and I have been playing in it since it came out. And going back to a WP all the time costs money.

vesica tempestas.1563:

RE mob spawning, find a spot where mobs don’t spawn, then look at maps as much as you like. In other words no need to blame the game when there are perfectly safe solutions available.

If you don’t know the maps well, how do you know a place where mobs don’t spawn?

No-one knows the maps well to start, that’s the point of new content. You play them and you learn by playing, how else do you learn stuff in games? Re not using WP because you think the silver is too expensive – 1 daily reward in 1 day that takes 5 minutes will give you the price of 200 WP portals..

Djinn.9245:

Blue.2734:

Wow, not a very nice person, are you? When you are lost and trying to figure out where you are and where you need to be takes a few minutes and the spawn rate is pretty high for mobs. It is so nice to see there are still the elitist that think their mean and not helpful things to say are okay and just for the record, I have played it, although not as high as some I have seen my mastery level is 23 all zones open with completion between 57 to 96%. If you have nothing nice to say, then please say nothing at all.

No, that was not a very nice post. I’m not going to respond to it in case it gets removed.

I agree that mobs in HoT are very deadly. Anyone who thinks that mobs in core Tyria are anywhere near as bad (in general) are just not truthful.

Yep mobs in HoT are harder. There are snipers who will kill you with a red line of death fired from their bows. But there’s also a target that appears over you when that’s happening that lets you know it’s coming and if you move sideways, it will always miss you.

There’s smokescale who do a ton of damage and can’t seem to be hit at all. Unless you learn to back out of their circle of smoke, where they can’t be hit, and let them come to you, in which case they still do a lot of damage, but they die very quickly.

And yes, there are pocket raptors which do a lot of damage, but die quickly to AOE and there are a ton of them around to rally on.

Creatures in HOT are harder, but most of them do have a strategy to deal with them. It takes a bit of patience to learn the strategy.

The hardest stuff in HoT for most people are probably the frogs that create poison circles. Shadow leapers are better to attack from close range (and jump away from you), and blade dancers are better to attack from range. Just be conscious of the poison and move out of it as fast as possible.

Having condition removal is helpful as well.

HoT is harder, but it’s just a matter of knowing your enemy. In the mean time there should be somewhere in the game where you’re fighting a powerful foe like an elder dragon that just destroyed the entire pact fleet, where you feel like you’re in some kind of danger at some point.

Blue.2734:

Wow, not a very nice person, are you? When you are lost and trying to figure out where you are and where you need to be takes a few minutes and the spawn rate is pretty high for mobs. It is so nice to see there are still the elitist that think their mean and not helpful things to say are okay and just for the record, I have played it, although not as high as some I have seen my mastery level is 23 all zones open with completion between 57 to 96%. If you have nothing nice to say, then please say nothing at all.

Hey, relax. I was just poking fun at your hyperbole. I can’t even open my map! That’s laying it on a little thick, don’t you think?

You’re welcome to your feelings on HoT. Don’t like the mob density/difficulty or the complex layouts? You wouldn’t be the first and you won’t be the last. I happen to disagree and hope to see more HoT-style maps.

I guess we’ll see what happens in the next expansion. Right now, I enjoy the LS3 maps but I find their design (with the exception of bloodstone fen) uninteresting and their lack of a meta or long-term goal beyond farming currency leaves me wanting more.

Having said that, I don’t require all maps to be exactly what I personally consider a great map. Overall I’m pleased with the maps provided since HoT released, even while the LS3 maps haven’t quite hit the mark with me. If, in the next expansion, they offered a mix of meta and non-meta, complex and “flat” maps I doubt I would have any complaints.

I still maintain that core Tyria should be more diverse in difficulty.
The problem is: Core Tyria doesn’t teach you anything.
You can rush most content, exlporation is as easy as drawing a straight line on a map and fights need even less thought than they require in HoT.

I know a lot of people who started playing on release, played for a little while and after a month said: Jesus, this is boring as hell, no challenge at all.
And went on to other games. The first two years of GW2, from my stand point, looked like a revolving door and i’m not even sure that stopped, maybe just slowed down a little bit.
And then the NPE happened, because we had to turn Core Tyria into an even bigger joke.
No conditions in the starter area but the first utility skill you get is a condi counter.
Players are still over tuned when down leveled as well, it’s better than it was right after the patch but it’s still not good.

If we had a few more mechanics every ten levels or so i think that HoT would have been much better received in terms of difficulty.