Guild Wars 2

The new trait “Berserker’s Power” is paired in the same grandmaster as “Axe Mastery”

Berserker’s Power is arguably the strongest damage trait on all of Warrior
This forces you to not take Axe Mastery, since Berserker’s Power will actually give you more damage even if you have an Axe.

Please separate these 2 traits, even if Axe mastery has to go into a different trait line.

http://i.imgur.com/093v9dI.jpg

That’s the same problem I have as a mesmer, DE is inaccessible without giving up the mantra trait which I’ve been using for such a long time.

I disagree. The new trait does not work the way the old trait did. The new version is a boost to burst damage, not a static +10% to +20% depending on your adrenal level so long as you don’t use a burst skill (allowing you to keep up higher damage with a three condition removal in your back pocket). Not the same thing at all. You are trading off +20% damage on most bursts vs. +2 adrenaline from axe skill plus 20% cooldown reduction on axe skills plus +150 (1 axe) or +300 (2 axes) ferocity. Not sure that you’re making the better choice by taking Berserker’s Power (more damage on bursts) over Axe Mastery (more attacks due to lower CD, quicker adrenaline building, plus extra damage on crits from all types of attacks so long as your are wielding an axe).

Arrow.4619:

I disagree. The new trait does not work the way the old trait did. The new version is a boost to burst damage, not a static +10% to +20% depending on your adrenal level so long as you don’t use a burst skill (allowing you to keep up higher damage with a three condition removal in your back pocket). Not the same thing at all. You are trading off +20% damage on most bursts vs. +2 adrenaline from axe skill plus 20% cooldown reduction on axe skills plus +150 (1 axe) or +300 (2 axes) ferocity. Not sure that you’re making the better choice by taking Berserker’s Power (more damage on bursts) over Axe Mastery (more attacks due to lower CD, quicker adrenaline building, plus extra damage on crits from all types of attacks so long as your are wielding an axe).

Op is saying you cannot combine them anymore, axe wielding wars could use these together now they have to choose and reduce the efectivenes of an axe wielder who relied on high adren = dmg boost results while having lower axe cd then other wars not using the mastery.

The new system holds them both as 1/3 grandmaster choices thus 0 combo value since they cannot both be selected in this system as opposed to current.

Arrow.4619:

I disagree. The new trait does not work the way the old trait did. The new version is a boost to burst damage, not a static +10% to +20% depending on your adrenal level so long as you don’t use a burst skill (allowing you to keep up higher damage with a three condition removal in your back pocket). Not the same thing at all. You are trading off +20% damage on most bursts vs. +2 adrenaline from axe skill plus 20% cooldown reduction on axe skills plus +150 (1 axe) or +300 (2 axes) ferocity. Not sure that you’re making the better choice by taking Berserker’s Power (more damage on bursts) over Axe Mastery (more attacks due to lower CD, quicker adrenaline building, plus extra damage on crits from all types of attacks so long as your are wielding an axe).

Axe burst skill recharges fairly quickly with the last trait line. And you can also get adrenaline fairly quickly with axes.
An Axe warrior would be able to keep that buff up fairly consistently.
So it’s a MASSIVE loss to damage.

I agree with the OP, this trait is in really bad position. It’s a trait that would hold the same value as the greatsword trait but is in grand master position while greatsword’s one is in master position. Thus, axe gain nothing from this trait line when greatsword hold the top spot.

Weapon wise, this is totally unbalanced. And 20% more damage vs 300 ferocity you would be fool if you were taking the 300 ferocity. Com’on, look at it with greatsword you will be able to have perma 40% damage increase (stick and move/forcefull greatsword/berserker power) and easy might while with axe, you will have more adrenaline than you need and a 10% damage increase + 300 ferocity.

Galeskyring.9617:

Op is saying you cannot combine them anymore, axe wielding wars could use these together now they have to choose and reduce the efectivenes of an axe wielder who relied on high adren = dmg boost results while having lower axe cd then other wars not using the mastery.

The new system holds them both as 1/3 grandmaster choices thus 0 combo value since they cannot both be selected in this system as opposed to current.

Is that the truth though? The point is, the traits that are being compared from the current build to the new build are different.

Berserker’s Power currently gives a static bonus to damage depending on your adrenaline while the new Berserker’s Power only gives you 10sec of bonus damage AFTER using a burst skill. Also, Axe Mastery is not only combined with Sharpened Axes, but if you enjoy off-hand axe for whatever reason (like myself) you can then combine that with sword for mobility/final thrust or what have you and gain the benefit of extra ferocity OR wield two axes for double the current bonus!

Yes, you’ll have to choose, but will the net results end with lowered damage? If so, by how much? That doesn’t even touch on the other damage bonuses changed such as Stick and Move’s bonus being changed from 5% to 10%.

I think that Forceful Greatsword and Berserker’s Power could have been swapped, so people can choose the weapon they want to spec for in the Grandmasters, but I feel that they chose to put Forceful Greatsword as a Master trait, to get people to take Berserker’s Power (Because the other 2 GMs are useless to GS users), to encourage the use of Arcing Slice, because currently, nobody really uses Arcing Slice, and just lets their Adrenaline stagnate and do nothing, and from the livestream, I got the feeling they want to encourage people to use their profession mechanics (EG: Encouraging Warriors to use Bursts more, Necros to use their Lifeforce more, etc, etc.)

I just read the description for axe mastery.

Gain ferocity for each axe you are wielding.

So dual axe would be +300 ferocity, or 20% critical damage.
Considering the 50% damage bonus to axe #5 in pvp, it will be better to take axe training in pvp. Simply due to buildup time of adrenaline and the damage on eviscerate.

I believe making these traits fight against each other fights against the spirit of the warrior axe. Now, I don’t main warrior but my leveling experience with mine was attempting a rifle build, only to move onto an axe build because I find trying to keep a ranged weapon equipped to be frustrating. Is the point of the axe not to to land a tonne of hits racking up adrenaline super fast so you can abuse the incredible stopping power of its burst skill?

Forcing a choice between mastery of the weapon for abusing burst skills and the trait that gives you a huge boost for using burst skills doesn’t make much sense, especially when the only other trait in the trait line for such a build is the Master Minor: Building Momentum.

I think there will be 2 builds with axes. One with burst traits (Burst precision, berserker’s power and burst mastery) and 1 with (axe mastery and dual wielding). Both look quiet good. I think its a good trade off.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I just read the description for axe mastery.

Gain ferocity for each axe you are wielding.

So dual axe would be +300 ferocity, or 20% critical damage.
Considering the 50% damage bonus to axe #5 in pvp, it will be better to take axe training in pvp. Simply due to buildup time of adrenaline and the damage on eviscerate.

dual axe gets fast adrenaline, they will get full adrenaline in 10 seconds.
this means
20% bonus to all damage
versus 20% bonus to axe CRIT damage if you have two axes.

so the question is does the 20% recharge on axes skills overule the damage lost from non crits, and weapon swaps.

id say, probably not.

edit: well i guess another factor is ramp up time. axe trait doesnt need much but ehhh still seeming kind of limited

The adept and master tiers of Strength look pretty weak to me.

Greatsword users are going to take Forceful Greatsword, which is a good option (not really a choice, though) for them. Everyone else will just take Great Fortitude. I don’t see Body Blow seeing much use in PvE.

In the adept tier, the most generally useful trait is Restorative Strength. But that won’t be of use if Healing Signet remains as the most used heal skill. Death from Above doesn’t really have a use in PvE, and Physical Training is only an option if you’re actually using physical skills enough to justify it.

Just remove all weapon-specific traits. Done. ANet already removed all weapon-specific traits for elementalists, so why not other classes as well.

Instead make some traits focus on melee/ranged, otherwise make the traits specific to attack types/skill types.

Chobiko.9182:

Just remove all weapon-specific traits. Done. ANet already removed all weapon-specific traits for elementalists, so why not other classes as well.

Instead make some traits focus on melee/ranged, otherwise make the traits specific to attack types/skill types.

Honestly this is how it should be.
Anyone that equips a weapon is obviously going to take these kind of traits.
It just forces people into trait lines.

Argon.1563:

I think that Forceful Greatsword and Berserker’s Power could have been swapped, so people can choose the weapon they want to spec for in the Grandmasters, but I feel that they chose to put Forceful Greatsword as a Master trait, to get people to take Berserker’s Power (Because the other 2 GMs are useless to GS users), to encourage the use of Arcing Slice, because currently, nobody really uses Arcing Slice, and just lets their Adrenaline stagnate and do nothing, and from the livestream, I got the feeling they want to encourage people to use their profession mechanics (EG: Encouraging Warriors to use Bursts more, Necros to use their Lifeforce more, etc, etc.)

Granted, I somewhat defended the decision by the devs, I only did so to kind of get people discussing trait placement and weighing options, not so much “what trait can’t I use together”. Whatever the case may be, I somewhat agree that the placement of the traits could use some work.

I’m not sure what the deal is with Forceful Greatsword’s placement. It’s combining 2 master traits, one of which has a secondary effect of might on crits but it remains a master trait. Axe Mastery is the same, combining 2 masters but it does add the extra of being able to gain a bonus from off-hand axe and a bonus for wielding two axes. If that’s good enough to qualify as a Grandmaster, then so would Forceful Greatsword which affects 2 weapons and can potentially affect others with its might stacking.

I wouldn’t be opposed to swapping Forceful GS and Berserker’s Power and bringing down the bonuses to current (5/10/15%).

mrstealth.6701:

The adept and master tiers of Strength look pretty weak to me.

Greatsword users are going to take Forceful Greatsword, which is a good option (not really a choice, though) for them. Everyone else will just take Great Fortitude. I don’t see Body Blow seeing much use in PvE.

In the adept tier, the most generally useful trait is Restorative Strength. But that won’t be of use if Healing Signet remains as the most used heal skill. Death from Above doesn’t really have a use in PvE, and Physical Training is only an option if you’re actually using physical skills enough to justify it.

I agree! Would definitely think reworking the orders and placement of the Master and adept levels since they don’t really offer as compelling of choices. I think they could roll Reckless Dodge into Death From Above so that this trait has actual combat applications and put Restorative Strength as the Minor. Or roll Restorative Strength and Great Fortitude together. Then that’ll free up a slot or two for revamped choices but utility wise, they don’t feel like real meaningful impactful choices.

Ok. You can’t take Berserk+Axe Mastery. So the tradeoff of that for 2 additional Minor traits (1 from Master and Grandmaster) and an additional Master and Grandmaster Trait is apparently so awful every Axe Warrior is automatically being screwed over? Take a look at those additional traits you can get and if you cannot figure out a way that those traits can make your characters either more powerful, more effective or more interesting to play then that’s a failure of imagination on your part.

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-arms-specialization.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-defense-specialization.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-tactics-specialization.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-discipline-specialization.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-defense-specialization.jpg

Arrow.4619:

Ok. You can’t take Berserk+Axe Mastery. So the tradeoff of that for 2 additional Minor traits (1 from Master and Grandmaster) and an additional Master and Grandmaster Trait is apparently so awful every Axe Warrior is automatically being screwed over? Take a look at those additional traits you can get and if you cannot figure out a way that those traits can make your characters either more powerful, more effective or more interesting to play then that’s a failure of imagination on your part.

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-arms-specialization.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-defense-specialization.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-tactics-specialization.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-discipline-specialization.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-defense-specialization.jpg

uhh its not about tradeoff versus what used to be, its about what is going on now.
.
Essentially there is no reason to take the axe trait, its a slightly less powerful/versatile version of the same thing.

so basically the axe trait has no real value in competition with the burst trait.
so its a false choice.

phys.7689:

Arrow.4619:

Ok. You can’t take Berserk+Axe Mastery. So the tradeoff of that for 2 additional Minor traits (1 from Master and Grandmaster) and an additional Master and Grandmaster Trait is apparently so awful every Axe Warrior is automatically being screwed over? Take a look at those additional traits you can get and if you cannot figure out a way that those traits can make your characters either more powerful, more effective or more interesting to play then that’s a failure of imagination on your part.

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-arms-specialization.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-defense-specialization.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-tactics-specialization.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-discipline-specialization.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-defense-specialization.jpg

uhh its not about tradeoff versus what used to be, its about what is going on now.
.
Essentially there is no reason to take the axe trait, its a slightly less powerful/versatile version of the same thing.

so basically the axe trait has no real value in competition with the burst trait.
so its a false choice.

That actually makes no sense to me phys. It is about the entire system as proposed. If you think that Axe Mastery synergizes well with other choices in other lines you might well take it even if you think its slightly inferior to Berserker Strength. Dual Wielding, Leg Specialist and Burst Mastery come to mind but it might synergize well with other one hand weapon skills like Blade Master, Sundering Mace.

Also not 100% certain I agree with your assertion that Axe Mastery is inherently the lesser trait. If you can burst and miss the target and still get the damage boost then yes/maybe assuming you can burst every 10 seconds or so. If it only procs on successfully using the Burst then its absolutely not. One attack every so often that can miss, be blocked, dodged, etc. (an you lose the 10 second damage boost) verses a continuous passive boost to axe cool downs, crit damage (general btw from what I can tell – so axe main or offhand give the ferocity with all attacks regardless of main or off hand) plus extra adrenaline and therefore more burst attacks plus potentially lots of fury up-time (through axe #4 if its your off hand). Combine Axe Mastery + Burst Mastery and you have strong regular attacks with a high crit chance and lots of burst (1-2-3-burst-1-2-3-burst and repeat.

If the issue is its having to make a choice, well I would say: Tough, join the club, choice is likely going to be something for every player and every class.

Arrow.4619:

That actually makes no sense to me phys. It is about the entire system as proposed. If you think that Axe Mastery synergizes well with other choices in other lines you might well take it even if you think its slightly inferior to Berserker Strength. Dual Wielding, Leg Specialist and Burst Mastery come to mind but it might synergize well with other one hand weapon skills like Blade Master, Sundering Mace.

Also not 100% certain I agree with your assertion that Axe Mastery is inherently the lesser trait. If you can burst and miss the target and still get the damage boost then yes/maybe assuming you can burst every 10 seconds or so. If it only procs on successfully using the Burst then its absolutely not. One attack every so often that can miss, be blocked, dodged, etc. (an you lose the 10 second damage boost) verses a continuous passive boost to axe cool downs, crit damage (general btw from what I can tell – so axe main or offhand give the ferocity with all attacks regardless of main or off hand) plus extra adrenaline and therefore more burst attacks plus potentially lots of fury up-time (through axe #4 if its your off hand). Combine Axe Mastery + Burst Mastery and you have strong regular attacks with a high crit chance and lots of burst (1-2-3-burst-1-2-3-burst and repeat.

If the issue is its having to make a choice, well I would say: Tough, join the club, choice is likely going to be something for every player and every class.

I agree. The choice shouldn’t be easy. Picking something should feel like sacrificing the option of something else. I, however, feel it’s rather unfair compared to Forceful Greatsword. I mean, what kind of rage would occur if Forceful GS and Axe Mastery were swapped?

If anything, I think either Forceful GS should become a Grandmaster trait or Axe Mastery should become a Master trait. You can keep them exclusive from Berserker’s Power if you want but there’s no reason you should be able to have one pair and not the other.

Leo G.4501:

Arrow.4619:

That actually makes no sense to me phys. It is about the entire system as proposed. If you think that Axe Mastery synergizes well with other choices in other lines you might well take it even if you think its slightly inferior to Berserker Strength. Dual Wielding, Leg Specialist and Burst Mastery come to mind but it might synergize well with other one hand weapon skills like Blade Master, Sundering Mace.

Also not 100% certain I agree with your assertion that Axe Mastery is inherently the lesser trait. If you can burst and miss the target and still get the damage boost then yes/maybe assuming you can burst every 10 seconds or so. If it only procs on successfully using the Burst then its absolutely not. One attack every so often that can miss, be blocked, dodged, etc. (an you lose the 10 second damage boost) verses a continuous passive boost to axe cool downs, crit damage (general btw from what I can tell – so axe main or offhand give the ferocity with all attacks regardless of main or off hand) plus extra adrenaline and therefore more burst attacks plus potentially lots of fury up-time (through axe #4 if its your off hand). Combine Axe Mastery + Burst Mastery and you have strong regular attacks with a high crit chance and lots of burst (1-2-3-burst-1-2-3-burst and repeat.

If the issue is its having to make a choice, well I would say: Tough, join the club, choice is likely going to be something for every player and every class.

I agree. The choice shouldn’t be easy. Picking something should feel like sacrificing the option of something else. I, however, feel it’s rather unfair compared to Forceful Greatsword. I mean, what kind of rage would occur if Forceful GS and Axe Mastery were swapped?

If anything, I think either Forceful GS should become a Grandmaster trait or Axe Mastery should become a Master trait. You can keep them exclusive from Berserker’s Power if you want but there’s no reason you should be able to have one pair and not the other.

I agree. GS should become Grandmaster or Axe should become Master.
It’s the only way to make things fair.

As it stands right now, Berserker is simply a straight upgrade over Axe Mastery.
Doesn’t make sense design wise either.

It’s just making GS warrior even stronger than the other builds PvE and make Axe Warriors feel awful about their trait choices.