Guild Wars 2

So, I was in Bloodstone Fen farming the meta (as you do) and someone in map chat mentioned that their XP was going to waste, and they couldn’t get Spirit Shards because they don’t raid.

I asked them some more questions and they said they were not getting any XP gain on the bar and getting the spirit shard rewards when it filled up. The reason being because their Masteries weren’t completed – i.e they don’t raid so it hasn’t unlocked.

Is this true? It seems like an oversite. Why do raiders get this perk? You have to raid to get free Spirit Shards.

Mostly true. You have to kill at least one raid boss. Some people sell raids, or do practice teaching raids. After your first kill you unlock raid masteries and you can train them like any other.

Once all your masteries are completed you again get spirit shards for leveling.

MashMash.1645:

Why do raiders get this perk?

The answer to this question is every issue in HoT.

I was asking last night why my ex bar wasn’t moving and no one could explained this to me aspect to me. TY for the info. I used LFG to see, and there was nothing offered that could help (lots of restricted/ we need/ must have this ……. ones though).
Bottom line for me, it is forcing me to play an aspect of the game that I don’t want to or have ever been interested in if I want my EXP bar to fill. That is ridiculous. I continue to question poor design decisions by Anet that negatively affect and frustrate PvE players( I speak for myself, but I am sure there are others).

I wasn’t aware that you had to complete the Raid Masteries to get back to XP gain. Yet another method for Anet to force you to play a game mode whether you want to or not. I’m quickly coming to the decision to leave GW2 over this strong-arming. Shame as I just bought gems. I won’t be foolish enough to do that again seeing how this game is becoming mostly an on-rails experience which I CAN’T STAND.

Players have to complete all Heart of Maguuma masteries to earn spirit shards. The raid is in the heart of Maguuma and thus the mastery track is a part of that. There are few raid encounters that can be done easily to unlock that mastery track. Not being able to earn spirit shards in HoT isn’t the end of the world.

Its not the end of the world but it is pretty bad design to not account for it in this type of game imo.

Zalani.9827:

Its not the end of the world but it is pretty bad design to not account for it in this type of game imo.

“I don’t like it” does not equate to “bad design”.

Ayrilana.1396:

Zalani.9827:

Its not the end of the world but it is pretty bad design to not account for it in this type of game imo.

“I don’t like it” does not equate to “bad design”.

Its bad(or perhaps poor?) design to force people into a game mode they have no interest in when everything else can be completed in the open world. I can see it in games like WoW but It’s not needed in a more casual game like Gw2.

And I never said I don’t like, im actually pretty neutral since I don’t care about spirit shards. I’m merely making a comment on it with how I see it.

Although at the Op, unless something like that even happens I do suggest looking around for one of those beginner groups just to get the boss if your open to it. You can also try searching on the forums too possibly. Perhaps even grab some guildies and do a mastery run on vale guardian? I’m sure theres bound to be some other people that want finished masteries. G’luck getting it regardless.

I’m a raider. I haven’t completed the last Nuhoch mastery, and I don’t get shards in HoT maps as well. It’s fine in core Tyrian zones though, so it’s outright wrong how you’re not getting spirit shards at all.

My suggestion: Instead of complaining about how raid masteries are ‘strong-arming’ you into a raid you don’t like, try and get 10 people for wing 3’s first encounter. It’s basically an extended event with no time limit, and incredibly easy to do. It unlocks your mastery, and you’ll never need to raid ever again.

Otherwise, there isn’t a problem – unless you choose to make it a problem yourself.

Zalani.9827:

Ayrilana.1396:

Zalani.9827:

Its not the end of the world but it is pretty bad design to not account for it in this type of game imo.

“I don’t like it” does not equate to “bad design”.

Its bad(or perhaps poor?) design to force people into a game mode they have no interest in when everything else can be completed in the open world. I can see it in games like WoW but It’s not needed in a more casual game like Gw2.

And I never said I don’t like, im actually pretty neutral since I don’t care about spirit shards. I’m merely making a comment on it with how I see it.

Legendary weapons have “forced” players into other game modes since launch. Achievement hunters have been “forced” to do other game modes to maximize their AP count. It is not poor design to have systems that cross over several areas in a game to encourage players to play in those areas no matter how brief it may be in comparison to their usually mode of play.

The escort event is pretty easy. We almost beat it within a couple hours with random players (most had no prior experience with it) with random builds/classes. We easily saw the progression that we were making and would have beaten it within the next few attempts. One of the key things is for players to actually pay attention and to realize that the red rings are bad since the traps kill you. You will need a Mesmer with the the raid masteries, or a few other players, as the tunnel requires a certain mastery.

I have no idea how anyone can argue that the design is fine. It doesn’t matter if you raid or not. If for any reason you cannot get any more xp towards masteries, whether they are locked or you have no MP, you should be able to use your xp towards spirit shards.

I wonder if players who only have the base game get spirit shards. If they do, HoT players are actually at a disadvantage here.

I said this in another thread, but I’ll reiterate here:

I don’t feel that raid masteries should block players from re-establishing spirit shard generation. I sort of feel that raid masteries (while tied to HoT) should be their ‘own thing’ as raids are intended (by Anet’s own words) for a minority of players, not the majority. They are a tier of “optional” beyond even what basic hot masteries are, imo. It’s why the story components where (supposedly) kept as “not necessary” to the larger story. As such, they shouldn’t be integrated as a requirement for the spirit shards.

Either way, it doesn’t bother me overly much since I have oodles of spirit shards (imo) and seem to regularly get a few as random drops. Still, just my 2c.

Ganathar.4956:

I have no idea how anyone can argue that the design is fine. It doesn’t matter if you raid or not. If for any reason you cannot get any more xp towards masteries, whether they are locked or you have no MP, you should be able to use your xp towards spirit shards.

I wonder if players who only have the base game get spirit shards. If they do, HoT players are actually at a disadvantage here.

Raids are a part of the Heart of Maguuma which all of the Heart of Maguuma masteries are as well. If you want to earn spirit shards then you need to max out every mastery. Everything is accessible including raids. It’s just that there’s some players that have chosen to shrug it off, are unwilling to do them, and want Anet to accommodate them.

Spirit shards hardly give a player an advantage.

While I don’t think this is the biggest issue in the world (as others have mentioned, you only need to beat one raid boss, and escort counts), I think the ideal solution is a spirit shard track that players can select if they’re unwilling or unable to complete the masteries.

Masteries have failed their stated purpose as a level-cap stand-in. Leveling in MMO’s has always been an open system. Generally, one can level doing a large number of different things that the MMO offers. GW2 took this a step further than most MMO’s. XP is awarded for doing pretty much anything except playing the TP or standing around chatting. In doing so, GW2 took a step forward in MMO design.

The Mastery System takes a giant step away from the way MMO’s treat leveling. Instead of being a leveling stand-in appealing to all, it is a system aimed at completionists. It does not appeal across the entire range of players in the same way a level cap increase would.

Apparently, Anet feels the need to tie anything and everything to specific game elements. This comes across as an attempt to make those game elements appealing. This is being done more and more as the game ages, even though ANet knows substantial numbers of players have no interest in some content.

It stands to reason that ANet’s current approach to game design is going to be defended by completionists. It also stands to reason that the more ANet ignores players with game-play preferences, the worse it will be for them in the long run. Completionists who love the game ought to consider that before they lambast others for having preferences.

To such players, the developer’s attitude seems to be, “If you don’t like and want to play everything we produce, we don’t care what you want or think.” Of course, it could be that they just don’t think things through or try to see beyond their own love for the game they’ve made. While the latter is understandable, it will often be viewed as the former by those such decisions impact negatively.

Sabetha.4910:

My suggestion: Instead of complaining about how raid masteries are ‘strong-arming’ you into a raid you don’t like, try and get 10 people for wing 3’s first encounter.

Instead of complaining that you feel forced to do something you don’t like, you should just do the thing you don’t like.

O.o

Really, the only problem with the Raiding mastery is that it only unlocks after defeating the raid. If it could be unlocked more easily, even if it consumes mastery points, I’m sure people would not be so heated over this issue. Oh, people would still complain, as people usually complain about anything that isn’t standard practice, but it might be a little less vocal.

Why do people keep assuming that this was intended behavior? Isn’t it just as likely that this is a bug? (Or an oversight.)

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Why do people keep assuming that this was intended behavior? Isn’t it just as likely that this is a bug? (Or an oversight.)

Because it’s consistent with all the previous instances of Anet assuming that everyone that matters raids (and everyone else is a second class citizen).

I haven’t done the raids at all and I noticed the other day I am indeed getting spirit shards.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Why do people keep assuming that this was intended behavior? Isn’t it just as likely that this is a bug? (Or an oversight.)

While I would believe Anet didn’t think about the negative reactions, they did program the Shard acquisition to require all masteries be completed. It’s even in the patch notes.

“Added back the ability to receive Spirit Shards once all the Masteries in a given region (Central Tyria or the Heart of Maguuma) have been earned. Players will continue to earn experience, and with every 254,000 experience points gained, players will earn a handful of Spirit Shards, which are useful to spend in the Mystic Forge or with the Mystic Forge attendant Miyani.”

italics mine

That strongly suggests this is neither a bug nor unintended. Oversight, while possible, is not likely either based on past behavior. Legendary Armor, a long-awaited carrot aimed at everyone, is gated behind content that not everyone will do. It’s not much of a step beyond that to get to the XP bar change.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Why do people keep assuming that this was intended behavior? Isn’t it just as likely that this is a bug? (Or an oversight.)

Because that is the way Anet works and have demonstrated it more and more lately. Anet pushes content that (it seems in this case) that many players don’t want or care to do and are pushing raids (among other things) then locking progress.

People assume things because of their perception of Anet, be it right or wrong. IF players feel that anet is manipulating them or game, nerfing, devs don’t like to assist in the official forums,not balancing all areas of the game, broken RNG, locking and time gating just to slow progress etc., it really doesn’t matter if they are right or wrong. The perception of the Anet by the players is what matters.
It also doesn’t help in the least the devs will not address issues like this in the official forums. False perceptions will have a negative impact on the game overall.

Anyways, back to topic now. Raid participation should not restrict XP in fen. A dev dropping in here could easily clear up is it a bug or sorry , we designed it so you must do raids (or a raid) to have your XP bar active again.

Here I am at not max masteries getting spirit shards. I don’t understand the system, nor do I care or want spirit shards, but I’m getting them.

Djinn.9245:

Sabetha.4910:

My suggestion: Instead of complaining about how raid masteries are ‘strong-arming’ you into a raid you don’t like, try and get 10 people for wing 3’s first encounter.

Instead of complaining that you feel forced to do something you don’t like, you should just do the thing you don’t like.

O.o

How would you know you don’t like it if you’ve never given it the time of day ?

The poster above is giving you some pretty legit advice and the first fight of wing 3 is literally no different than any open world escort quest you’d come across sans for the 10 player cap.

Ganathar.4956:

I have no idea how anyone can argue that the design is fine. It doesn’t matter if you raid or not. If for any reason you cannot get any more xp towards masteries, whether they are locked or you have no MP, you should be able to use your xp towards spirit shards.

I wonder if players who only have the base game get spirit shards. If they do, HoT players are actually at a disadvantage here.

Thank you, THIS is how it should be. But, btw, core tyria you have to finish all that too, so personally I have to go back and do triple trouble or spend the cash on a bunch of cultural styles I don’t even like… completionist bullkitten.

The raid lock isn’t the problem, the lock behind masteries that people don’t care about is. Forcing people to go do things they don’t want to do so they can actually get use out of their experience points is just wrong.

So am I just bugged? Really no one else is getting spirit shards after not doing the raids?

Fluffball.8307:

So am I just bugged? Really no one else is getting spirit shards after not doing the raids?

The picture you posted above is just a thin line on my computer. I can’t see what it’s trying to show. However people do get spirit shards through normal gameplay. Killing mobs will occasionally give you spirit shards for example no matter what level your char is or the number of Masteries you have. Possibly that’s what you are seeing.

Ha, I was trying to make it smaller for convenience, I think I went too far. Everytime I level up, I get a spirit shard. The line shows that I am not at max mastery and I have a spirit shard showing as my next reward.

Here is the same image at real size.

Fluffball.8307:

So am I just bugged? Really no one else is getting spirit shards after not doing the raids?

Masteries are region based, so you don’t need every mastery, just all of them for whichever region you’re playing in. You may get XP again in HoT/Tyria, but not in Tyria/HoT.

Ah that would explain it, I noticed it while doing dungeons. Thanks.

I’m surprised it’s not just a selectable repeatable mastery track.

Pifil.5193:

I’m surprised it’s not just a selectable repeatable mastery track.

Yes, this is what it should be. Like PvP and WvW, selectable tracks would be fine that we could do at any time in lieu of furthering mastery post 80. PvE tracks could be tied to PvE maps, and replacing the current bonus reward system in place.

Would it be an issue to have a way to unlock the raid mastery either by paying a small fee or just entering forsaken thicket?
In the beginning it locked access to Dessa but since the aerodrome everybody can exchange magnetite shards.
On top of that people who are not raiding but intend to do in the future will already have the rift travel to join any encounter (e.g. Trio) or Waters and turrets for escort and will be able to collect shards again.

Ranael.6423:

Would it be an issue to have a way to unlock the raid mastery either by paying a small fee or just entering forsaken thicket?
In the beginning it locked access to Dessa but since the aerodrome everybody can exchange magnetite shards.
On top of that people who are not raiding but intend to do in the future will already have the rift travel to join any encounter (e.g. Trio) or Waters and turrets for escort and will be able to collect shards again.

+1

I have to wonder if acquiring 1 Spirit Shard per ~250,000 XP is that game-breaking. It seems we already get something like 20 to 50 per level-up as it is.

Before the change to Spirit Shards, I had maybe 300 Hero Points saved; since then I have acquired thousands of Spirit Shards.

Again, I have to wonder if 1 Spirit Shard is worth the angst. Of course, that’s just me.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I have to wonder if acquiring 1 Spirit Shard per ~250,000 XP is that game-breaking. It seems we already get something like 20 to 50 per level-up as it is.

Before the change to Spirit Shards, I had maybe 300 Hero Points saved; since then I have acquired thousands of Spirit Shards.

Again, I have to wonder if 1 Spirit Shard is worth the angst. Of course, that’s just me.

It adds up. I don’t know how much XP is needed but if it really is 250,000 then it won’t take much effort to level up.

This is not true… I am currently sitting at 162 having not had anything to do with raids so far and yet I earn spirit shards as per normal.

Although this did only recently change as I used to only have a full XP bar although I’m not 100% sure when the change occured.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I have to wonder if acquiring 1 Spirit Shard per ~250,000 XP is that game-breaking. It seems we already get something like 20 to 50 per level-up as it is.

Before the change to Spirit Shards, I had maybe 300 Hero Points saved; since then I have acquired thousands of Spirit Shards.

Again, I have to wonder if 1 Spirit Shard is worth the angst. Of course, that’s just me.

I think it’s not so much the value of the reward but more that folks dislike the feeling of all that XP going completely to waste, especially as several of the new events reward a sizeable chunk of “instant XP” that cannot be saved for later, or used on a lower level toon.

I get that it’s ‘the principle of the thing’, but unless the reward is changed, I don’t really understand.

I guess it’s just the ‘ding’ at the end of the bar.

I’d rather the community asked for something less common or useful for leveling up, rather than focus on Spirit Shards, which would make the whole ‘Raid’ thing locking some out more impactful/important, but, obviously, I’m in the tiny minority. Lol.

Carry on.

Spirit shard is gold … up to 5 from Gw2 Efficiency. In one evening in Bloodstone Fen, I don’t know how much I can get, but I’d say easy 1 to 2 per hour.
I do raid every week and earn some gold from it, then I earn spirit shards and convert them into gold (well I could, because I actually don’t). It’s not that raid cost a lot of money once you have your gear (free repair!) so it is clearly a disadvantage for those who don’t raid.
But honestly I think it is more something devs forgot to do than did on purpose…

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Why do people keep assuming that this was intended behavior? Isn’t it just as likely that this is a bug? (Or an oversight.)

Because it is obvious that Anet’s new mandate for GW2 is to try to make people play all game modes whether they want to or not.

Ranael.6423:

Spirit shard is gold … up to 5 from Gw2 Efficiency. In one evening in Bloodstone Fen, I don’t know how much I can get, but I’d say easy 1 to 2 per hour.
I do raid every week and earn some gold from it, then I earn spirit shards and convert them into gold (well I could, because I actually don’t). It’s not that raid cost a lot of money once you have your gear (free repair!) so it is clearly a disadvantage for those who don’t raid.
But honestly I think it is more something devs forgot to do than did on purpose…

You might check out the recipes for turning Spirit Shards into Gold. The best is ~2 Gold per Shard, but it requires an awful lot of Gold to begin with. Now, for some, 800 or so Gold is chicken-feed, but I’m guessing it’s quite a bit for many.

One can, easily afford to promote mats, but the profit per Shard is in Silvers, not Golds. This, of course, is a form of crafting, and there are some that do not care to craft.

Personally, I’d rather have 50 or even 25 Silver at the completion of an XP bar, rather than the hassle of converting a Spirit Shard to Gold.

Unlock them be default -> Problem solved. No Masteries should be locked.

You do not need to kill a boss, just grab 9 casuals players and do the siege encounter for Wing 3, its as easy as a fractal/dungeon.

Sabetha.4910:

I have to ‘bite the bullet’ as well when I did Adventures to get my mastery points. I spent an entire night trying to get silver on Leyline Scramble once. I don’t recall making a complaint…

If it was so unfun for you, you should have complained. Many did, which is why a lot of adventures were made easier, and why the new zone has so many relatively easily accessible mastery points (with only 1 needed for new mastery track).

Sabetha.4910:

I’m not advising you. I’m telling you what you can choose to do.

Sure, but the “cure” you suggest is as bad as the disease, so it’s no surprising people call you on it.

Sabetha.4910:

Or not. I don’t really care what solution you pick. I’m only here to say that this problem is very easy to solve.

Nope, since the “easy solution” you provided is the problem.

Vayne.8563:

Mostly true. You have to kill at least one raid boss. Some people sell raids, or do practice teaching raids. After your first kill you unlock raid masteries and you can train them like any other.

Once all your masteries are completed you again get spirit shards for leveling.

Need to complete also includes MP’s. No MP’s no SS. It really was not thought out well.

SteepledHat.1345:

MashMash.1645:

Why do raiders get this perk?

The answer to this question is every issue in HoT.

The answer to this is in every game ever: There is a something you have to do to get the reward to finishing that something. Maybe people are to accustomed being told that they are winners for just participating, but that’s not how life works or games for that matter. Raiders get this ‘perk’ simply because they have done what is necessary to get it.

Grebcol.5984:

Unlock them be default -> Problem solved. No Masteries should be locked.

This, I disagree with. For instance, there’s no point having Exalted Mastery unlocked when you haven’t even met the Exalted, and it unlocks as soon as you enter Auric Basin for the first time. The new ability is pretty much useless outside of Bloodstone Fen, at least for the moment. I think it’d be fine if the raid masteries unlocked as soon as entering a raid wing, even if the first ability is locked for a reason.

Obtena.7952:

SteepledHat.1345:

MashMash.1645:

Why do raiders get this perk?

The answer to this question is every issue in HoT.

The answer to this is in every game ever: There is a something you have to do to get the reward to finishing that something. Maybe people are to accustomed being told that they are winners for just participating, but that’s not how life works or games for that matter. Raiders get this ‘perk’ simply because they have done what is necessary to get it.

Nah people are just accustomed to playing a game that didn’t heavily incorporate raids.

If this were a feature of the game at launch then your argument would hold water.