Guild Wars 2

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

DoctorDing.5890:

The point of this thread is very valid. Players who have absolutely no interest in raids or raiding and who have absolutely no use for a raid mastery are being “encouraged” to do them just so they can have a use for excess XP again. It’s like asking a jazz-hating metal-head to buy a Robbie Coltrane album just to earn a Metallica bonus track.

The jazzers are saying “Hey, you might like it”, “Broaden your mind”, “You don’t know if you don’t try it” but the metal-head is thinking “But all I want is the bonus track”.

I think it’s actually worse. The metal-head could think, “ok, I’ll try it just to unlock the track”, but then isn’t able because he needs to find 9 other people who also want to do it with him. But those jazzier don’t want strangers and his metal-head friends don’t care…

That’s not all of it. Even if you do manage to find a group for one raid boss and unlock the mastery, you still need the extra mastery points. Bloodstone Fen does not give enough MP to max the raid mastery, which means that the rest of the MP must be gotten either by doing the gold adventures that you haven’t done or raiding even more. Getting gold on some adventures was hard enough for some people, but having to get gold on the harder ones that you have ignored will be even worse.

Ganathar.4956:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

DoctorDing.5890:

The point of this thread is very valid. Players who have absolutely no interest in raids or raiding and who have absolutely no use for a raid mastery are being “encouraged” to do them just so they can have a use for excess XP again. It’s like asking a jazz-hating metal-head to buy a Robbie Coltrane album just to earn a Metallica bonus track.

The jazzers are saying “Hey, you might like it”, “Broaden your mind”, “You don’t know if you don’t try it” but the metal-head is thinking “But all I want is the bonus track”.

I think it’s actually worse. The metal-head could think, “ok, I’ll try it just to unlock the track”, but then isn’t able because he needs to find 9 other people who also want to do it with him. But those jazzier don’t want strangers and his metal-head friends don’t care…

That’s not all of it. Even if you do manage to find a group for one raid boss and unlock the mastery, you still need the extra mastery points. Bloodstone Fen does not give enough MP to max the raid mastery, which means that the rest of the MP must be gotten either by doing the gold adventures that you haven’t done or raiding even more. Getting gold on some adventures was hard enough for some people, but having to get gold on the harder ones that you have ignored will be even worse.

Not sure if that’s worse. At least I can keep trying at that whenever I want. I don’t need a group of 9 others.

(besides, personally, I have 7 MP’s I cannot spend, and a lot of XP that gets wasted…)

Ganathar.4956:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

DoctorDing.5890:

The point of this thread is very valid. Players who have absolutely no interest in raids or raiding and who have absolutely no use for a raid mastery are being “encouraged” to do them just so they can have a use for excess XP again. It’s like asking a jazz-hating metal-head to buy a Robbie Coltrane album just to earn a Metallica bonus track.

The jazzers are saying “Hey, you might like it”, “Broaden your mind”, “You don’t know if you don’t try it” but the metal-head is thinking “But all I want is the bonus track”.

I think it’s actually worse. The metal-head could think, “ok, I’ll try it just to unlock the track”, but then isn’t able because he needs to find 9 other people who also want to do it with him. But those jazzier don’t want strangers and his metal-head friends don’t care…

That’s not all of it. Even if you do manage to find a group for one raid boss and unlock the mastery, you still need the extra mastery points. Bloodstone Fen does not give enough MP to max the raid mastery, which means that the rest of the MP must be gotten either by doing the gold adventures that you haven’t done or raiding even more. Getting gold on some adventures was hard enough for some people, but having to get gold on the harder ones that you have ignored will be even worse.

This is incorrect.

You need 49 MP for Tyria and 121 MP for Maguuma to max those masteries.

There’s currently an excess of 17 Tyria MP and 31 Maguuma MP.

There are 14 MP that can be obtained from raids. One of them just requires a completed instance as you channel a “place of power” to get it. Another point you will get when you beat any of the bosses. So this leaves 12 MP.

If you remove the remaining 12 MP you can get from raids, that leaves 19 MP available. If you remove the 15 MP that you get from obtaining gold in the adventures, that’s now 4 MP available.

Esquilax.3491:

Don’t think I should be required to raid to unlock experience. It should be optional, but okay I’ll leave it at that.

Thanks for the response.

There are several threads up addressing that exact issue.

If you don’t want to search for them, the short version:

• Some people say it’s fair: raids are part of the new region and anyone can unlock one point (and therefore fully unlock the region’s masteries). In other words: you barely have to raid.
• Others say it’s unfair: raids are supposed to be challenging content, deliberately designed to appeal to a fraction of the community. It’s ridicuiculous [sic] to require it to earn spirit shards.
• A smaller group suggests this is much ado about nothing: there are tons of ways to earn spirit shards already and not that many ways to spend them. This affects a tiny fraction of people; ANet should worry about bigger issues.
• Yet another group says that they think this was a bug, an oversight and that it will get fixed. We haven’t heard from ANet about it because it’s not that urgent.

Ayrilana.1396:

If you remove the remaining 12 MP you can get from raids, that leaves 19 MP available. If you remove the 15 MP that you get from obtaining gold in the adventures, that’s now 4 MP available.

And even I can get silver in adventures (and my loathing for — and lack of skill in — adventures is well documented in these forums).

Mind you, I think ANet should change things so that raids aren’t part of Heart of Maguuma masteries. I’m not sure that it’s urgent or that it’s that big an issue (I get plenty of shards from all the new sources). (I was hoping that extra XP would generate something else instead.)

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

(I was hoping that extra XP would generate something else instead.)

That would only result in more complaints given the current situation …

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

If you remove the remaining 12 MP you can get from raids, that leaves 19 MP available. If you remove the 15 MP that you get from obtaining gold in the adventures, that’s now 4 MP available.

And even I can get silver in adventures (and my loathing for — and lack of skill in — adventures is well documented in these forums).

I think its great that you can get Silver in Adventures, but my question is why you would do an activity that you loath in a game that is supposed to be for entertainment?

Many people say that “there are plenty of MP”. Not for me. I play a game ONLY for entertainment, not to work. I have a job and chores around the house for working. Apparently Anet believes that you should be required to do what THEY want you to do while being entertained or be locked out of PvE character progression.

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

If you remove the remaining 12 MP you can get from raids, that leaves 19 MP available. If you remove the 15 MP that you get from obtaining gold in the adventures, that’s now 4 MP available.

And even I can get silver in adventures (and my loathing for — and lack of skill in — adventures is well documented in these forums).

I think its great that you can get Silver in Adventures, but my question is why you would do an activity that you loath in a game that is supposed to be for entertainment?

Many people say that “there are plenty of MP”. Not for me. I play a game ONLY for entertainment, not to work. I have a job and chores around the house for working. Apparently Anet believes that you should be required to do what THEY want you to do while being entertained or be locked out of PvE character progression.

There are players that loathe grinding. Should legendary weapons be made to not be a grind since the game is for entertainment?

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

If you remove the remaining 12 MP you can get from raids, that leaves 19 MP available. If you remove the 15 MP that you get from obtaining gold in the adventures, that’s now 4 MP available.

And even I can get silver in adventures (and my loathing for — and lack of skill in — adventures is well documented in these forums).

I think its great that you can get Silver in Adventures, but my question is why you would do an activity that you loath in a game that is supposed to be for entertainment?

Many people say that “there are plenty of MP”. Not for me. I play a game ONLY for entertainment, not to work. I have a job and chores around the house for working. Apparently Anet believes that you should be required to do what THEY want you to do while being entertained or be locked out of PvE character progression.

There are players that loathe grinding. Should legendary weapons be made to not be a grind since the game is for entertainment?

Oh no… you used the dreaded g word. Now this thread is going to go into a death spiral of debate over whether the game is grindy.. xo

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

If you remove the remaining 12 MP you can get from raids, that leaves 19 MP available. If you remove the 15 MP that you get from obtaining gold in the adventures, that’s now 4 MP available.

And even I can get silver in adventures (and my loathing for — and lack of skill in — adventures is well documented in these forums).

I think its great that you can get Silver in Adventures, but my question is why you would do an activity that you loath in a game that is supposed to be for entertainment?

Many people say that “there are plenty of MP”. Not for me. I play a game ONLY for entertainment, not to work. I have a job and chores around the house for working. Apparently Anet believes that you should be required to do what THEY want you to do while being entertained or be locked out of PvE character progression.

If you play the game for entertainment, then don’t do things that don’t entertain you. Of course, don’t pretend that everything you want is going to be obtained through entertaining activities for you either, nor should Anet bend over backwards to do that for you. That’s an insurmountable task; to make sure no one ‘works’ and everything is obtainable to everyone through entertaining methods.

That being said, you are being very disingenuous here… you are NOT locked out of PVE progression by this particular issue. You still obtain spirit shards through other means. Also, you make it sound like it’s unreasonable that Anet design the game to make it required to do what THEY want you to do to obtain rewards when in fact … that’s the only way Anet could possibly design the game.

This is NOT create your own adventure here. You are not entitled to rewards you aren’t willing to complete the tasks for and YES, Anet determines what those tasks are. If that’s a problem for you, you should rethink your decision to play MMO’s or any game, computer or not, for that matter. I’ve yet to play a game where the players decide what they are willing to do to get rewards, and that includes non-computer games as well. The fact is that it seems you just don’t like rules in games that don’t appeal to your sense of ‘entertainment’. Best get over it; that’s how games work.

Obtena.7952:

That being said, you are being very disingenuous here… you are NOT locked out of PVE progression by this particular issue. You still obtain spirit shards through other means. Also, you make it sound like it’s unreasonable that Anet design the game to make it required to do what THEY want you to do to obtain rewards when in fact … that’s the only way Anet could possibly design the game.

Such bull gravy. There are a lot of ways to design games and the reward systems within them. ANet designed the original game so that most rewards were available via the universal currencies of Karma or gold. Yes, there were exceptions, but they were exceptions, not the rule. So, it’s eminently possible for ANet to design things which can be gotten via a choice of play options. They still do this with some things. That’s what reward tracks are.

Many players have found, sometimes to their dismay, over the nearly 4 years the game has been out, that ANet can and will change the way things work to suit the squeaky wheels. So, it’s fine for players who dislike the way things work to be squeaky wheels. There is nothing sacred about the way the game is currently designed despite your — and others’ – insistence that there is.

It’s fine if you prefer the way things are. However, if that’s the case then say that instead.

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

If you remove the remaining 12 MP you can get from raids, that leaves 19 MP available. If you remove the 15 MP that you get from obtaining gold in the adventures, that’s now 4 MP available.

And even I can get silver in adventures (and my loathing for — and lack of skill in — adventures is well documented in these forums).

I think its great that you can get Silver in Adventures, but my question is why you would do an activity that you loath in a game that is supposed to be for entertainment?

Because I was entertained?

Before GW2, I loathed PvP and I only started WvW because (at the time) it was required for the Gift of Exploration. Turned out, I really like WvW. I even got involved in each of the seasons by joining a WvW guild. I’m still a PvEr at heart and I don’t do much sPvP.

Similarly, I hate games like Super Mario or Candy Crush, but I’ve been known to try a few out at the recommendation of my young nephews, nieces, cousins. So when GW2 added adventures and gated MPs behind them, I figured I could try them out, see if they were as bad as I feared.

Turns out, they are (in my opinion) terrible, horrible, no good, and very bad (depending on which one). In other words, I loathe them. All the same, I’m glad I tried them. It was entertaining to give them a go.
——————————————-
My point, which seems to have been lost among the comments is that they can be done by anyone who chooses to do them. Since it is optional to maximize masteries, not everyone has to choose to do them all.

(If XP was the sole source of spirit shards, I might feel differently about this particular point. However, now, it’s just one of many sources.)

Should people do stuff that they find boring? I can’t answer that for anyone else. I would point out even great games offer stuff that each one of us finds annoying, although generally not the same things. Having to grind sometimes in a game doesn’t make the entire game grindy and it certainly doesn’t invalidate a mechanic. I can’t imagine that anyone loves every moment of pursuing the Gift of Exploration, but I can easily imagine that some people love exploring the map on more than one character.

Also lost among the comments: I think ANet should adjust things so that earning spirit shards via XP isn’t gated behind doing raids. ANet designed raids to appeal a minority and there are already plenty of rewards for that game mode. I also am in favor of more mastery point unlocks, including enough to allow people to avoid adventures.

The point is, I don’t think ANet has to make the changes; those who want to can already max masteries without becoming a full time raider, even if they might not love every minute. I hope ANet makes the changes; I just don’t think it’s urgent.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Obtena.7952:

That being said, you are being very disingenuous here… you are NOT locked out of PVE progression by this particular issue. You still obtain spirit shards through other means. Also, you make it sound like it’s unreasonable that Anet design the game to make it required to do what THEY want you to do to obtain rewards when in fact … that’s the only way Anet could possibly design the game.

Such bull gravy. There are a lot of ways to design games and the reward systems within them.

This is not bull gravy … the idea that a game dev could develop a game so that every aspect is entertaining to every person is not possible. If it’s bull gravy, then ask yourself why don’t we have games like that?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

(If XP was the sole source of spirit shards, I might feel differently about this particular point. However, now, it’s just one of many sources.)

So you understand that mastery points are optional to some extent and that spirit shards may be obtained in other ways. But is it necessary to force players to complete all masteries to receive any reward at all for the experience they gain?

That doesn’t add up to me. The argument could certainly be made that spirit shards for XP are the reward for completing all masteries. But that isn’t a good argument for why players who do not complete these “optional” masteries get absolutely nothing for their experience.

If spirit shards are such a great reward, then give something else for XP along the way and switch over to spirit shards upon mastery completion. But leaving it so that a large portion of the playerbase gets nothing for their XP is a low-value option, in my opinion. We can do better than that, don’t you think?

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ayrilana.1396:

If you remove the remaining 12 MP you can get from raids, that leaves 19 MP available. If you remove the 15 MP that you get from obtaining gold in the adventures, that’s now 4 MP available.

And even I can get silver in adventures (and my loathing for — and lack of skill in — adventures is well documented in these forums).

I think its great that you can get Silver in Adventures, but my question is why you would do an activity that you loath in a game that is supposed to be for entertainment?

Many people say that “there are plenty of MP”. Not for me. I play a game ONLY for entertainment, not to work. I have a job and chores around the house for working. Apparently Anet believes that you should be required to do what THEY want you to do while being entertained or be locked out of PvE character progression.

There are players that loathe grinding. Should legendary weapons be made to not be a grind since the game is for entertainment?

Not at all – since I don’t like grinding I don’t expect to get a Legendary weapon. I don’t have anything that requires grinding – no special backpack, etc. Maybe after a couple more years since I like to collect crafting materials and they now have HoT Legendaries. But maybe I’ll never get one.

However, Legendaries are not part of the PvE progression of your character like Masteries are.

What this all comes down to is Anet attempting to force players into game modes whether the players want it or not. I think its sad, really. Why does Anet want to do this? Are there not enough people who want to play these modes?

Instead of using a stick of trying to FORCE people by gating regular character progression, why not use a carrot? Make a special achievement or title for people who kill their first Raid boss. Same for PvP, WvW, Adventures, JP, etc. Stop trying to force people to play the way you want.

Djinn.9245:

What this all comes down to is Anet attempting to force players into game modes whether the players want it or not. I think its sad, really. Why does Anet want to do this? Are there not enough people who want to play these modes?

Instead of using a stick of trying to FORCE people by gating regular character progression, why not use a carrot? Make a special achievement or title for people who kill their first Raid boss. Same for PvP, WvW, Adventures, JP, etc. Stop trying to force people to play the way you want.

I’ve read this a few times over, and I’m still very confused. How are spirit shards a part of regular character progression? If you’re trying to make a lot of ascended weapons and armour, you only need that quality for high-end specialized content.

Anet added an additional source of spirit shards which not everyone can currently get, but for over a year now all of our accounts have been able to get them through playing how we want. People who enjoy PvP can get them, people who enjoy WvW can get them, etc. Your character progression isn’t stopped by Anet adding an additional source.

Daddicus.6128:

Malediktus.9250:

Spirit Shards are useless anyway, you get so many of them and if you would want to convert them to gold you would have to click yourself to a broken mouse and carpal tunnel syndrome.

I’ve made far more money upgrading crafting materials than I’ll ever make adventuring. And, that requires spirit shards.

That is because 99% of the players cannot be bothered to convert their shards to gold since it is an insane amount of clicking. If all people would use their shards it would be less than 10s profit per shard.

Djinn.9245:

What this all comes down to is Anet attempting to force players into game modes whether the players want it or not. I think its sad, really. Why does Anet want to do this? Are there not enough people who want to play these modes?

Instead of using a stick of trying to FORCE people by gating regular character progression, why not use a carrot? Make a special achievement or title for people who kill their first Raid boss. Same for PvP, WvW, Adventures, JP, etc. Stop trying to force people to play the way you want.

Exactly. I don´t even need Spirit Shards at this point, but the ignorance of Anet in this point is quite irritating for me too.
With the beginning of the ascended backpack in fractals, I always was an enemy of this practice.

when you didn’t unlock a mastery, it should not count till it’s unlocked.
is that really such a big problem?

Djinn.9245:

What this all comes down to is Anet attempting to force players into game modes whether the players want it or not. I think its sad, really.

No, they aren’t. You don’t need to raid to obtain spirit shards. Get your facts straight.

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

What this all comes down to is Anet attempting to force players into game modes whether the players want it or not. I think its sad, really.

No, they aren’t. You don’t need to raid to obtain spirit shards. Get your facts straight.

Obviously no clue as to the Anets apparent new policy of policy of promoting modes of play that some (I would say many) don’t care to participate in. It ISN’T about obtaining shards. I just love seeing all those experience points being rewarded as I play but my EXP bar doesn’t move just because I have no interest in raids. This is happening with many other aspects of game as well (daily, adventures, etc).

So the complaint of the thread is that XP bars don’t move … and that not getting shards from XP just happens to be a insignificant side effect of that? Is that yellow line so offensive? Please.

Let’s be honest here … this thread isn’t about a static yellow line and Anet isn’t applying any ‘policy’ of promoting modes of play here because you don’t need to raid to get spirit shards … people just want shards with XP and don’t like that they have to unlock with raids to do that now. Don’t pretend this discussion is about ANYTHING other than this. It’s simply obtuse to insist Anet is forcing players to do something they don’t even need to do to get a specific reward.

Honestly, the new way is better and actually pretty transparent … you get shards about as often as you did when they were level 80 XP bar rewards. They are also rewards for other parts of the game too now. This ‘locked out from shards’ idea is just nonsense … everyone still gets shards, even if you don’t have raid unlock.

Obtena.7952:

So the complaint is that your XP bar doesn’t move … and that not getting shards from XP just happens to be a insignificant side effect of that? You don’t think we are that naive do you? Is that yellow line so offensive? Please.

Let’s be honest here … it has nothing to do with XP bars not moving or whatever and Anet has no ‘policy’ of promoting modes of play because you don’t need to raid to get spirit shards … people just want shards with XP and don’t like that they have to unlock with raids to do that now. Don’t pretend this discussion is about ANYTHING other than this. It’s simply obtuse to insist Anet is forcing players to do something they don’t even need to do to get a specific reward.

I know you aren’t replying to me, but I just wanted to point out that for some of us the issue is that, ideally experience should always provide some benefit to a character. Or else why even have it?

I’m fine with spirit shards after mastery points if that’s considered an attractive reward in exchange for experience. And if that reward is specifically intended for post-mastery, could we at least get SOMETHING for those who are stuck with no intention of doing anymore masteries and have all XP bars maxxed?

Or, if it’s a fairly minor reward in either case, then just allow spirit shard gain for experience regardless. The moment you hit 80, every so much XP you gain a spirit shard. Just as it is now for players post-mastery. The masteries themselves should be necessary for their own reasons (and they are), but I see no need to create this situation where players who don’t care for more masteries feel compelled to do them anyway just to get anything at all out of the XP they earn.

AliamRationem.5172:

Obtena.7952:

So the complaint is that your XP bar doesn’t move … and that not getting shards from XP just happens to be a insignificant side effect of that? You don’t think we are that naive do you? Is that yellow line so offensive? Please.

Let’s be honest here … it has nothing to do with XP bars not moving or whatever and Anet has no ‘policy’ of promoting modes of play because you don’t need to raid to get spirit shards … people just want shards with XP and don’t like that they have to unlock with raids to do that now. Don’t pretend this discussion is about ANYTHING other than this. It’s simply obtuse to insist Anet is forcing players to do something they don’t even need to do to get a specific reward.

I know you aren’t replying to me, but I just wanted to point out that for some of us the issue is that, ideally experience should always provide some benefit to a character. Or else why even have it?

That’s not an issue though … the XP you gain after 80 is used for mastery progression; it still has a purpose, even if the bar doesn’t reward spirit shards. There is a problem with the starting assumption that you should get something for your gained experience, even once you hit 80, done masteries, etc…. that’s not necessarily true. It’s not really relevant if it’s right or wrong. There is no morality attached to rewards beyond leveling with XP.

The whole problem with this thread is that it poses the context of obtaining shards in a completely disingenuous manner. Unlocking raids and gaining shards through XP gain is the ADDITIONAL way Anet introduced to obtain them, not the only way. The people complaining in this thread have completely ignored the fact you get them randomly from just killing stuff now and make it sound like they will never get another shard as long as they don’t unlock through raids. That’s just ignorant.

It’s a great snip because it’s completely ridiculous to think any group of game devs could develop any game so that every game aspect is entertaining to every player. I don’t see how that’s not obvious to people. Again, if this is something that is easily done, then why doesn’t the industry have games where every single person is entertained all the time everywhere in it? It’s a red herring. People are making comparisons to things that don’t exist.

I mean, what is exactly wrong with my response? You refer to choice of game options to get rewards … well guess what … this is EXACTLY that case. You can get spirit shards with XP bar unlocking from raids or just from playing and they drop randomly … or both. That didn’t happen before. So what am I missing here?

Again, I think the people complaining about this are not aware or simply ignoring these various options that they get shards, just to make it seem like the changes are really bad when in fact, they are exactly inline with what you were talking about; giving people options to get rewards.

Obtena.7952:

AliamRationem.5172:

Obtena.7952:

So the complaint is that your XP bar doesn’t move … and that not getting shards from XP just happens to be a insignificant side effect of that? You don’t think we are that naive do you? Is that yellow line so offensive? Please.

Let’s be honest here … it has nothing to do with XP bars not moving or whatever and Anet has no ‘policy’ of promoting modes of play because you don’t need to raid to get spirit shards … people just want shards with XP and don’t like that they have to unlock with raids to do that now. Don’t pretend this discussion is about ANYTHING other than this. It’s simply obtuse to insist Anet is forcing players to do something they don’t even need to do to get a specific reward.

I know you aren’t replying to me, but I just wanted to point out that for some of us the issue is that, ideally experience should always provide some benefit to a character. Or else why even have it?

That’s not an issue though … the XP you gain after 80 is used for mastery progression; it still has a purpose, even if the bar doesn’t reward spirit shards. There is a problem with the starting assumption that you should get something for your gained experience, even once you hit 80, done masteries, etc…. that’s not necessarily true. It’s not really relevant if it’s right or wrong. There is no morality attached to rewards beyond leveling with XP.

The whole problem with this thread is that it poses the context of obtaining shards in a completely disingenuous manner. Unlocking raids and gaining shards through XP gain is the ADDITIONAL way Anet introduced to obtain them, not the only way. The people complaining in this thread have completely ignored the fact you get them randomly from just killing stuff now and make it sound like they will never get another shard as long as they don’t unlock through raids. That’s just ignorant.

Well, I don’t really care what anyone else is putting forth in this thread. I was just sharing my own perspective, which is that adding spirit shards as a way to give just a little something back for experience post-cap is a good idea that could (and should!) be applied to all characters regardless of mastery system progress.

Does it “need” to be this way? Of course not. I’m new as of HoT, but my understanding is that the mastery system was added as part of the expansion and that previously nothing existed for post-cap experience. Obviously, they thought it was a good idea to start adding a purpose for those earned points that previously went to waste.

That’s the reason experience is linked to the mastery system – as a form of progression and to add purpose to experience post-cap. Spirit shards serve the same function: adding a purpose to experience post-cap.

So what I’m saying is that it was a good idea and they should expand upon it. Perhaps they could even consider a slight rework of the way masteries work and tackle more than one problem at once.

Suggestion: Unlink experience from masteries. There is already progression in earning the required points. Instead, create a long-term reward track of sorts entirely based upon post-cap experience. Expand upon the rewards to create a progression. The more exp you gain, the bigger the rewards.

Just a thought. I realize nothing has to be anyway. It’s just a game after all. But I do think it’s poor design to have players gaining experience for absolutely no reason at any point in a game.

AliamRationem.5172:

So what I’m saying is that it was a good idea and they should expand upon it. Perhaps they could even consider a slight rework of the way masteries work and tackle more than one problem at once.

Suggestion: Unlink experience from masteries. There is already progression in earning the required points. Instead, create a long-term reward track of sorts entirely based upon post-cap experience. Expand upon the rewards to create a progression. The more exp you gain, the bigger the rewards.

That would be a lovely iteration of the system. I’ve got a fair number of friends who have hit a wall with their Mastery progression (be it by choice or otherwise), and would appreciate another side progression.

Obtena.7952:

The people complaining in this thread have completely ignored the fact you get them randomly from just killing stuff now and make it sound like they will never get another shard as long as they don’t unlock through raids. That’s just ignorant.

Except that isn’t true, is it now? Perhaps you should be a bit less selective in what you read.

What people are complaining about is that they (non-raiders) are apparently barred from getting spirit shards through experience (in the HoT area) unless they complete at least one raid. This means that people who have never completed a raid end up wasting an infinite amount of experience even when all the other HoT masteries have already been completed unless they participate in a game mode which they might not enjoy and which was marketed as being for a small minority of “elite” players.

Yes, there are a lot of other sources of spirit shards. Almost nobody is denying that. But I don’t see why that somehow makes it okay to hide this behind raids, which – as mentioned before – were intended as elite content. And as far as I’m aware, spirit shards have nothing to do with raids. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

As for the value of the currency, that’s to some extent subjective. You might find spirit shards absolutely useless, while somebody else who’s aiming to get every single skin/legendary in the game might find them invaluable and spend them at an alarming rate. Don’t assume that your play style and spending habits in this game are the norm; everybody is different.

Now, some people will say ‘just do a raid if you want to unlock that spirit shard source so badly.’ However, those people appear to forget that not all people are interested in raids or for that matter, skilled enough to complete them. Remember, Raids were meant to be “elite” content. And certainly, I suppose it is possible to pay an exorbitant amount of money to a group to get them to carry you through a raid, but it seems silly that this would be a requirement just to get those spirit shards. And before anybody goes ‘but 50-100 gold (or however much it costs these days) isn’t that much,’ please remember that that this too is a subjective thing, and a very casual player will often not have that much gold.

As for me, I don’t need more spirit shards. I’ve got plenty of them. But there’s a very simple reason I want to be able to get spirit shards from “levelling” in HoT: It doesn’t waste the XP which I gain.

This may sound silly to some of you, but seeing a lot of XP simply go to waste when I know that there’s a possibility actually make it do something is incredibly demotivating. And yes, this may not affect your enjoyment of this game, but it does affect mine. You may not understand why I feel like this. You may think it’s stupid, and you’re entitled to your opinion. But regardless, it’s still a factor for me which negatively impacts my enjoyment of the game.

A big part of the issue for me is actually Bloodstone Fen. I absolutely adore this map and spent a lot of time on it doing the achievements, getting XP for masteries (when I still needed it, went on a quick mastery levelling spree for Nevermore) and just farming events. But lately, I don’t spend much time on it outside of doing the dailies. Why? The map bonuses. Whether you can use XP or not, it constantly bombards you with XP boosts. And again, if you’re like me (pray that you are not), that very quickly starts to nag at you.

And let me make one thing clear: It’s not that I’m unwilling to put time into this game levelling masteries and acquiring mastery points to unlock it. I’m more than willing to level those masteries if I must. Hell, the fact that I’ve been slavering away on Nevermore suggests that I’m quite willing to go the distance for stuff I care about. But I don’t see why I have to do Raids (or more accurately, at least complete one of them) just to unlock the possibility of getting spirit shards through XP in the HoT areas.

And in case people are wondering: Yes, I’ve tried doing Raids. Partially because I was curious about it and intended to give it a try at least once, but mostly because I needed it to unlock the Forsaken Thicket mastery track. And while I can see why some people enjoy Raids, I personally do not really care too much for them. It’s just a game mode which does not appeal to me all that much, and which I find too hard to be enjoyable (yes, I’m a casual scrub). And again, before anybody goes ‘but raid wing 3 is easy:’ No, that is your opinion. It is not an objective fact.

Don’t get me wrong, I wholeheartedly believe that people should try game modes (whether that’s Dungeons, Fractals, PvP, WvW or Raids) before saying that they don’t like something. And I would definitely encourage people to try out Raids at least once or twice. Who knows, you might enjoy Raids far more than you thought you would. Hell, I know I got hooked on Fractals for a while after somebody just gave me that little extra push to try it out. But if you make content for “elite” players, then you should not then make that content a barrier for other things in PvE for the so-called “casual” players.

Again, I’m fine with people having to complete all the other HoT mastery tracks before getting access. Hell, I’m fine with completing the Forsaken Thicket mastery track if I have to, even if I might never use it in the future. I’m not completely opposed to having to put in some effort to get to the stage where I can get spirit shards from XP (in HoT areas). I just genuinely don’t see the point of locking the Forsaken Thicket mastery track – and thus the spirit shard “levelling” mechanic – behind the successful completion of a Raid (or behind a Raid boss kill, for the nitpickers amongst you). I just don’t.

Lastly, for those who are for some reason opposed to changing the current system to allow non-raiders to also get spirit shards: why are you opposed to it? Would this proposed quality of life change in any way harm you? As far as I can see, it would not influence you in any way whatsoever, and only (positively) affect those who currently feel like this neat little feature/spirit shard source/method not to completely waste XP is locked away from them.

I really see no reason to oppose a change which would positively affect a sizeable chunk of the community and harm none. The only real reason I can think of is elitism, and I do not find that particularly compelling. But hey, that’s my subjective view on the matter.

PS: For those who are wondering how much I care about this: enough to write this massive wall of text. Enjoy! =P

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

What this all comes down to is Anet attempting to force players into game modes whether the players want it or not. I think its sad, really.

No, they aren’t. You don’t need to raid to obtain spirit shards. Get your facts straight.

It is a Fact that Experience is the main foundation of character progression. And it is a Fact that I can’t get any more Experience OR the benefit from Experience until I cap Masteries which are locked, in part, behind raiding.

Obtena.7952:

people just want shards with XP and don’t like that they have to unlock with raids to do that now. Don’t pretend this discussion is about ANYTHING other than this.

Congratulations on understanding what the thread title says: “blocked-from-XP-bar-spirit-shards”.

Obtena.7952:

It’s simply obtuse to insist Anet is forcing players to do something they don’t even need to do to get a specific reward.

Honestly, the new way is better and actually pretty transparent … you get shards about as often as you did when they were level 80 XP bar rewards. They are also rewards for other parts of the game too now. This ‘locked out from shards’ idea is just nonsense … everyone still gets shards, even if you don’t have raid unlock.

Except that people who have capped Masteries get BOTH… O.o

Obtena.7952:

It’s a great snip because it’s completely ridiculous to think any group of game devs could develop any game so that every game aspect is entertaining to every player.

GW2 pre-HoT WAS entertaining to pretty much every MMO player type. Pre-HoT I could gain XP from WvW, PvP, Crafting, Dungeons, Fractals, Open-world PvE, JP, etc. People leveled entire characters just by crafting!

Now my XP gain has stopped because I currently have no more MP to get without doing something I don’t find entertaining.

Obtena.7952:

It’s a great snip because it’s completely ridiculous to think any group of game devs could develop any game so that every game aspect is entertaining to every player. I don’t see how that’s not obvious to people. Again, if this is something that is easily done, then why doesn’t the industry have games where every single person is entertained all the time everywhere in it? It’s a red herring. People are making comparisons to things that don’t exist.

I mean, what is exactly wrong with my response? You refer to choice of game options to get rewards … well guess what … this is EXACTLY that case. You can get spirit shards with XP bar unlocking from raids or just from playing and they drop randomly … or both. That didn’t happen before. So what am I missing here?

Again, I think the people complaining about this are not aware or simply ignoring these various options that they get shards, just to make it seem like the changes are really bad when in fact, they are exactly inline with what you were talking about; giving people options to get rewards.

OK, you don’t get it. ANet has the power to set tasks for rewards. That’s true. However, it’s not relevant to the discussion — though you’re trying to make it relevant. You are attempting to use status quo to invalidate posts that are asking for a change. That’s the bull gravy. There have been hundreds — if not thousands — of changes to the way GW2 does a myriad of things, including rewards. Many, if not most of them, started out with someone saying, “Hey, I’d like this to be different because reasons.” Many, if not most of those received push-back from people who appealed to the status quo. Status quo means jack-all with a developer like ANet that iterates constantly.

Also,the fact that Anet had previously designed much of the game’s rewards to be broadly available sinks your point that developers cannot make greater accommodations than they’re making currently.

Obtena.7952:

I mean, what is exactly wrong with my response? You refer to choice of game options to get rewards … well guess what … this is EXACTLY that case. You can get spirit shards with XP bar unlocking from raids or just from playing and they drop randomly … or both. That didn’t happen before. So what am I missing here?

Again, I think the people complaining about this are not aware or simply ignoring these various options that they get shards, just to make it seem like the changes are really bad when in fact, they are exactly inline with what you were talking about; giving people options to get rewards.

Those of us who aren’t complaining about anything are suggesting changes not because we can’t get spirit shards, but because we get no reward from experience gain due to the fact that we haven’t completed the mastery system.

As the thread title indicates, this is an issue for some because now a reward that really should be available to all (continued rewards from experience gain) is instead locked behind the mastery system (and raids) when it really has nothing to do with that system at all. It was an odd and arbitrary choice that could easily have gone the other way.

As you pointed out to me previously, this is not a moral issue. It would not be wrong to change the way this works so that masteries are earned independently of post-cap experience rewards. They could also leave it as is.

In my opinion, that would be a mistake. I see no benefit to the current system over my proposal (aside from the additional resources required to make it happen, of course). The way it works now you have a lot of players who gain no benefit whatsoever from gaining experience.

Why is that the way to go? Wouldn’t it be better if everyone gained rewards from post-cap experience gain? And why stop at spirit shards? They should make a reward track like they have for achievements.

So, yeah. Not whining here. Just suggesting a better design to ANet. You should relax a bit and stop talking down to everyone. It’s unnecessary.

Djinn.9245:

Except that people who have capped Masteries get BOTH… O.o

Yup … they are rewarded with those extra shards for doing what needs to be done to get them, in addition to all the random shards everyone gets. I guess that whole concept is lost on some people here; it’s rather odd considering the whole MMO genre is based on activity completion = rewards. It should be very familiar to you. You want your XP to worth spirit shards? You know what you need to do …

AliamRationem.5172:

As the thread title indicates, this is an issue for some because now a reward that really should be available to all (continued rewards from experience gain) is instead locked behind the mastery system (and raids) when it really has nothing to do with that system at all. It was an odd and arbitrary choice that could easily have gone the other way.

For me, that’s where the debate begins, not ends … why should there be a reward for people with XP who haven’t completed their masteries? I still don’t see this as a ‘right/wrong’ thing … I don’t get the point of rewarding people with tangibles from repeated completing XP bars in the first place … it’s just another participation reward; even the fat kid that walks the race gets them. THAT’S garbage game design.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Also,the fact that Anet had previously designed much of the game’s rewards to be broadly available sinks your point that developers cannot make greater accommodations than they’re making currently.

Yet, Anet DID accommodate EVERY player with this change … people in this thread make it sound like Anet hung non-raiding players out to dry, when in fact, Anet ensured everyone would still get spirit shards through random mob drops.

Obtena.7952:

Yet, Anet DID accommodate EVERY player with this change … people in this thread make it sound like Anet hung non-raiding players out to dry, when in fact, Anet ensured everyone would still get spirit shards through random mob drops.

You still think this is solely about shards? smh

The larger issue is whether a leveling stand-in ought to be gated by one type of content. Leveling stand-ins ought to be open acquisition, and accommodate everyone.

Obtena.7952:

why should there be a reward for people with XP who haven’t completed their masteries?

What about people who have? I’ve completed the central and HoT masteries but I only get rewarded in central maps because I haven’t complete the raid masteries. Raiding is a different game mode with its own mastery category but for the purpose of mastery completion, it’s lumped with HoT. This is design with an ulterior motive.

I will openly say that I enjoyed completing the central and HoT masteries. I’m working with pugs to unlock the raid mastery so I can enjoy completing it, even though I don’t actually want to raid at this time. This design will not stop me for long. But that doesn’t excuse it. It’s a not very subtle and rather insulting trick to lure more people into raiding, even if they have no interest in it. Perhaps it drives up the numbers in some statistical analysis anet have and they can point and say, “Aha! See! Raiding is growing in popularity.”

I have nothing against raiding. I’m glad others enjoy it. I intend to get into it one day when I’m ready. And that’s the trouble with this design. As others have pointed out, rather than letting people get into raiding when they want to and thereby feel more passionate about it, it’s coercing people to get into raiding now if they want to complete the entirely separate goal of making XP mean something post-cap. That’s going to turn some players from being on the fence about raiding to actually disliking raiding. This is a case of using a stick instead of a carrot, and even more sadly there are plenty of good ideas coming from players about how to make raids more attractive to non-raiders, to draw them in willingly. Just my two coppers.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

why should there be a reward for people with XP who haven’t completed their masteries?

What about people who have? I’ve completed the central and HoT masteries but I only get rewarded in central maps because I haven’t complete the raid masteries.

What about em? You want extra shards, you need to unlock the raid thing. I don’t think you can exclude them just because they can be categorized differently than the ones you have completed. That’s a pretty cherry picked argument that I can’t understand.

You don’t get to say “oh, I did these things, that’s good enough for the reward I see I want”. I mean, what is that? When has that ever been a reasonable argument to change something, ESPECIALLY if Anet has already implemented that reward in a way that accommodates EVERYONE. /shakeshead

Obtena.7952:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

why should there be a reward for people with XP who haven’t completed their masteries?

What about people who have? I’ve completed the central and HoT masteries but I only get rewarded in central maps because I haven’t complete the raid masteries.

What about em? You want extra shards, you need to unlock the raid thing. I don’t think you can exclude them just because they can be categorized differently than the ones you have completed. That’s a pretty cherry picked argument.

Like several other posters said here, it’s not about the shards. I don’t care about the shards. I just like my xp bar going up. It’s satisfying to me. I earn xp through effort and want something to come of it. You seem to be overly fixated on the shards for some reason and I think it’s biasing your perception of what people are saying. You also used cherry picking in a really strange way that doesn’t make sense. I agree that I can’t exclude the raid thing, because that’s the design. I just don’t like that design. It smacks of coercion. I think anet can and should change it.

In response to this paragraph which you added subsequent to my first reply..

Obtena.7952:

You don’t get to say “oh, I did these things, that’s good enough for the reward I see I want”. I mean, what is that? When has that ever been a reasonable argument to change something, ESPECIALLY if Anet has already implemented that reward in a way that accommodates EVERYONE. /shakeshead

There’s an inconsistency in the things that are required. In central, completing all masteries gets you a reward. In HoT, completing all masteries doesn’t unless you also complete a separate category which relates to a different game mode. This inconsistency is at least questionable.

Suppose there was a mastery for PvP and you couldn’t get rewards in central maps even with all your central masteries completed unless you also completed the PvP mastery. And suppose you’re not interested in PvP. Would that requirement seem reasonable?

Obtena.7952:

ESPECIALLY if Anet has already implemented that reward in a way that accommodates EVERYONE. /shakeshead

As you’ve said yourself in other posts, it’s impossible for anet to accomodate everyone.

And what constitutes a reasonable argument to change something is a whole separate discussion in itself. I don’t have any expectation that anet will change this design. I’m just voicing my personal opinion on a design I don’t agree with. As I said, I’m going to satisfy their requirements eventually, but their methodology is leaving a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to raids, and that’s a shame.

What it comes down to is that players used to be able to progress their characters by doing any Game Mode they pleased. Now Anet has narrowed the game so that you can only progress your character by gaining Mastery Points which you MUST gain from multiple Game Modes whether you prefer to do so or not. Very sad state of the game.

How is not maxing out your raid masteries preventing progression when you likely have no plans to do raids in the first place? I can understand complaining about not having access to spirit shards via leveling but not about progression being blocked.

Ayrilana.1396:

How is not maxing out your raid masteries preventing progression when you likely have no plans to do raids in the first place? I can understand complaining about not having access to spirit shards via leveling but not about progression being blocked.

It doesn’t, but it sure sounds good ay?

Obtena.7952:

AliamRationem.5172:

As the thread title indicates, this is an issue for some because now a reward that really should be available to all (continued rewards from experience gain) is instead locked behind the mastery system (and raids) when it really has nothing to do with that system at all. It was an odd and arbitrary choice that could easily have gone the other way.

For me, that’s where the debate begins, not ends … why should there be a reward for people with XP who haven’t completed their masteries? I still don’t see this as a ‘right/wrong’ thing … I don’t get the point of rewarding people with tangibles from repeated completing XP bars in the first place … it’s just another participation reward; even the fat kid that walks the race gets them. THAT’S garbage game design.

I disagree that providing a reward track for experience gain post-cap is poor design. Providing nothing at all seems the far worse option from my perspective. But we aren’t going to agree on that.

By the way, I’ve repeatedly agreed that this is not an issue of right or wrong. Why does it need to be the way I suggest? It doesn’t. Neither does it need to remain as it is. The point seems irrelevant, so I’m not sure why you keep bringing it up. It does nothing to strengthen your argument or detract from my position.

Obtena.7952:

why should there be a reward for people with XP who haven’t completed their masteries?

Because it slowly unravels the tapestry they’re trying to create.

When Masteries launched I had enough to unlock most of the Tyrian ones with XP-gain the only block to finishing them until, ah heck, I ran out of points so my Tyrian Masteries have been halted since that time. Now the side-effect from that is that firstly; I use my 80s less in Tyrian territory because there’s still my Magus Masteries that need levelling and secondly; xp boosters of all kinds (chests, scrolls, food) have less value in Tyria.

Recently, thanks to the release of Bloodstone Fen, Magus XP has been flooding in and, oopsie, I’ve run out of points again. Until they’re completed; all kinds of XP boost are useless which means focusing on non-80 characters, which I have plenty of, and frustrating myself trying and failing to do adventures which are either based off activities I already despise like Jumping Puzzles or Races OR hanging around HoT maps waiting for the next rotation of Dragon’s Stand or Tangled Depths to come around and hope there’s enough people to do it.

Now I used to be a City player so I’m used to finding value elsewhere; I was a shameless AE powerleveller that could generate tickets at full bore every run-through when my maxed character who wouldn’t earn xp took equals and sidekicks in with them. But my farmer could still earn influence and prestige even if they didn’t earn XP.

So, for example, I no longer need to go to Bloodstone Fen (except it’s the main source of unbound magic and blood rubies), I no longer need to go anywhere with my 80s (except to try and unlock specific mastery points that I haven’t got yet) and less reason to hit 80 because progress is halted (again, back to finding alternative values) and any potential progress is ‘lost’. The lifeblood of most, if not all, MMOs is the grind and anything that shines a light on it not being there is bad for longevity.

I mean tonight I just decided not to go Bloodstone Fen frustrated by the lack of mastery points and the need to do very specific events to unlock them; I just closed down the client and decided to do other stuff instead. I mean I’ll do it later when I’m feeling less perturbed (mainly by the assumptions in mapchat that everyone knows everything about everything about HoT).

Tyger.1637:

Obtena.7952:

why should there be a reward for people with XP who haven’t completed their masteries?

Because it slowly unravels the tapestry they’re trying to create.

When Masteries launched I had enough to unlock most of the Tyrian ones with XP-gain the only block to finishing them until, ah heck, I ran out of points so my Tyrian Masteries have been halted since that time. Now the side-effect from that is that firstly; I use my 80s less in Tyrian territory because there’s still my Magus Masteries that need levelling and secondly; xp boosters of all kinds (chests, scrolls, food) have less value in Tyria.

Recently, thanks to the release of Bloodstone Fen, Magus XP has been flooding in and, oopsie, I’ve run out of points again. Until they’re completed; all kinds of XP boost are useless which means focusing on non-80 characters, which I have plenty of, and frustrating myself trying and failing to do adventures which are either based off activities I already despise like Jumping Puzzles or Races OR hanging around HoT maps waiting for the next rotation of Dragon’s Stand or Tangled Depths to come around and hope there’s enough people to do it.

Now I used to be a City player so I’m used to finding value elsewhere; I was a shameless AE powerleveller that could generate tickets at full bore every run-through when my maxed character who wouldn’t earn xp took equals and sidekicks in with them. But my farmer could still earn influence and prestige even if they didn’t earn XP.

So, for example, I no longer need to go to Bloodstone Fen (except it’s the main source of unbound magic and blood rubies), I no longer need to go anywhere with my 80s (except to try and unlock specific mastery points that I haven’t got yet) and less reason to hit 80 because progress is halted (again, back to finding alternative values) and any potential progress is ‘lost’. The lifeblood of most, if not all, MMOs is the grind and anything that shines a light on it not being there is bad for longevity.

I mean tonight I just decided not to go Bloodstone Fen frustrated by the lack of mastery points and the need to do very specific events to unlock them; I just closed down the client and decided to do other stuff instead. I mean I’ll do it later when I’m feeling less perturbed (mainly by the assumptions in mapchat that everyone knows everything about everything about HoT).

Excellent points and I completely agree. The same has happened in my case. I’ve been leveling up my non-80 alts because at least they can get something for their XP.

AliamRationem.5172:

By the way, I’ve repeatedly agreed that this is not an issue of right or wrong. Why does it need to be the way I suggest? It doesn’t. Neither does it need to remain as it is. The point seems irrelevant, so I’m not sure why you keep bringing it up. It does nothing to strengthen your argument or detract from my position.

Actually, it is relevant because behind all this is a company that has finite resources they allocate for work … so if someone is going to suggest something need to change , it better be a really good reason to do so. Reasons like “I want it, but can’t be bothered to do what’s necessary” don’t cut it here.

Tyger.1637:

Obtena.7952:

why should there be a reward for people with XP who haven’t completed their masteries?

Because it slowly unravels the tapestry they’re trying to create.

I’m going to challenge that; so IIRC, you saying that if you don’t get something for your XP once you ‘top level’, the game offers nothing to you that makes it interesting enough to play at level 80 to unravel its tapestry? Well, I can only think that’s a very exceptional player that views XP in this manner; there are ALL kinds of reasons to continuing unraveling that tapestry at level 80, other than gaining XP. In fact, I think gaining XP is such an inconsequential reward in this game, it hardly goes noticed when you get it, even while leveling. It’s basically thrown at you. I click a bloodstone stalagtite and get some 5 figures XP gain or something ridiculous like that … it’s participation rewards … it seems silly to insist we get some tangible reward for the continuous flood of XP obtained from doing anything in this game.

MAYBE if XP was not so freely given away, there would be a sensible reward item to attach to it.

Obtena.7952:

Tyger.1637:

Because it slowly unravels the tapestry they’re trying to create.

I’m going to challenge that; so IIRC, you saying that if you don’t get something for your XP once you ‘top level’, the game offers nothing to you that makes it interesting enough to play unravel its tapestry? Well, I can only think that’s a very exceptional player that views XP in this manner; there are ALL kinds of reasons to continuing unraveling that tapestry past level 80, other than gaining XP. In fact, I think gaining XP is such an inconsequential reward in this game, it hardly goes noticed when you get it, even while leveling. It’s basically thrown at you. I click a bloodstone stalagtite and get some 5 figures XP gain … participation rewards …

So now put your tinfoil hat on with me and sit beside my campfire for a moment, Obtena-san.^^

Mind you that I don´t care in the slightest for xp or spirit shards. I have plenty of both and could go on for months without them if the need would arise.
I think that is blatantly obvious that Anet not only nudges people to play raids. They push, drag and seduce people into trying them, in an intensity I would not have thought possible from a company like this.
-It startet with the nerf for dungeons. Ok, you will say, that was because the game was fre to play and people should be nudged to buy HoT. Ok, fair enough, I can relate to that argument, but it is a rather lucky concidence for my theory.
-Legendary armor as exclusive reward. At this point things start to get ridiculous, but you can argue that Anet has already done that in the past and has finally bended over to give people more chances to get it.
-Adding more mastery points for raiders. What, you don´t want to make the stupid adventures? No problem, you just have to raid. This point was countered by the Fen, but you get the idea when it was installed.
-And now this shard thing. It is the weakest link and inconsequential, but I agree that there could be a pattern.

Oh I don’t disagree with that … Anet do want people to experience Raiding; in fact I think it’s key to future endgame content strategy. Expansions and LS are too ‘spiky’ to keep people ingame with the frequency they need to have constant revenues. If they attach rewards to raids that aren’t limited in usefulness to just raids, more people will try them out. They might not stick to it, but I bet some will like them and do it. That’s a smart move IMO.

Obtena.7952:

Actually, it is relevant because behind all this is a company that has finite resources they allocate for work … so if someone is going to suggest something need to change , it better be a really good reason to do so. Reasons like “I want it, but can’t be bothered to do what’s necessary” don’t cut it here.

Except that’s not what’s being said. That’s your straw man. What’s being said is more like, “This content is not fun for me, and I don’t think rewards this basic ought to be locked behind this content.”

ANet has cheesed off lots of people with their decisions in the years since launch. This is cheesing off more. This is the kind of feedback ANet needs to hear. Cheesed off people are less likely to support them, financially or verbally.

I’ve no idea whether they will or won’t change this feature, nor do I particularly care whether they do. I do want them to consider the desires of players with relation to basic progression systems and how they structure them going forward.