Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Your statement is false – I completely understand that Spirit Shards are not the same as XP. That is very easy to see. What many people in this thread DON’T understand is the basic idea of why there is XP in the first place. RPGs have XP in order to allow players to witness their character progressing. It is fundamental to game design (read an article on game design to understand why). That said, the fact that I am not receiving ANYTHING at the base level for playing my character is simply bad design.

Once players reach the level cap, they stop progressing. XP no longer contributes to character progression as they cannot gain levels above the cap. As far as I know, there are no level 81+ characters in the game controlled by players.

Once players max their masteries, or get to a point where XP can no longer train a particular mastery, XP no longer contributes to character progression. This was how the mastery system was designed. If you’ve maxed all masteries then XP can’t train anything obviously. If you haven’t unlocked the next tier of a mastery, and no other tiers of other masteries are available for training, XP cannot train any masteries.

Your issue is that you are under the belief that earning spirit shards, a currency, is somehow progressing your character. It isn’t.

I said nothing about gaining levels – not sure why you are bringing it up. The fact is that each time my level 80 characters kill a mob, text flashes on the screen telling me that I got XP. Why does it do that if I’m not supposed to be getting XP?

And no, I’m not “under the belief” (?) you mention. Don’t put words in my mouth please.

Well XP usually goes towards levels in most RPG’s which is a topic you brought up.

Anyway… how about Anet just hide the XP numbers? Easy solution. Now you don’t have to worry about the text on your screen.

Precisely … the issue that he gain XP on a bar and ‘get nothing for it’ simply exists because he sees the bar. A purely cosmetic and insignificant problem based on perception. It’s not a progression issue at all, even though its what we keep hearing about.

I stil did not raid and don´t run out of shards. It´s a minor symptom of a much bigger problem though. If you want at least all the Mastery Points of HoT, you have indeed a lot of boring options.
You can:
a) make boring adeventures
b) get grumpy in jumping puzzles or jumping puzzle lookalikes in tangled depth
c) bore yourself to sleep for battling the same mob for hours and hours
d) wait until a new ls story comes out and store excess points

Of course you can argue that there is lots of choice, but why are most of the choices so close together in intend? You can avoid the most boring stuff until you reach around 120 MP, then you have to swallow the toad and start to do stuff like that.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

So, why no problem with Iteration 2? It seems the complaint is XP ‘going to waste’. Or, not getting ’rewarded with Spirit Shards.

It didn’t really seem to be a problem for those 4/5 months. In fact, not only the 4/5 months, but only since the advent of said Spirit Shard reward.

Still seems odd to me.

Why?

Everyone was treated the same in Iteration 2, and people had Masteries to look forward to. There was no “left out” group and, the way the change was presented, the “nothing from post-80 XP” was temporary. Also, when game changes are still theoretical, players complain less, or not at all. Once implemented, well, you know what happens.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m wondering where the outcry was for the 4 or 5 months prior to the release of HoT when XP gain gave L80 characters absolutely nothing? No Hero Points, no Skill Points, nothing.

There was quite a huge outcry. It’s exactly because of those complains that spirit shards for xp were brought back.
Edit: Ah, you mean before HoT, but after skill point split? Mostly because most people didn’t notice yet that the game was acting differently than advertised (original info for that change said that we would get skill shards for leveling past 80, or at least was worded in such way that almost everyone interpreted it like that). But as soon as people started to realize that something is not right, complains started. It has just taken them a while to build up.
Also, as Indigo said: equal treatment vs. better treatment for small group of people.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Why is it such a big deal now that some players can attain Spirit Shards, of all things?

When you ask for something, and see it being implemented… but only for a small minority of players (and not the same group that was asking either), it’s not unreasonable to feel as if Anet was being playing the role of Monkey’s Paw… again.

It’s probably been said over a dozen times in this thread, but what they really need to do is just make the spirit shard reward an infinitely repeatable mastery track that doesn’t require mastery points. That way, if for any reason you’re not able to work on your masteries, you can just switch to spirit shards instead so your XP gain isn’t totally going to waste.

draxynnic.3719:

It’s probably been said over a dozen times in this thread, but what they really need to do is just make the spirit shard reward an infinitely repeatable mastery track that doesn’t require mastery points. That way, if for any reason you’re not able to work on your masteries, you can just switch to spirit shards instead so your XP gain isn’t totally going to waste.

It has been said, but it could be said again. I think a reward track for post-cap experience independent of the mastery system is a great idea.

If a separate reward track was ever implemented, I hope it offers just about anything but Spirit Shards (or Tomes of Knowledge).

Both are attained much too easily, already.

draxynnic.3719:

It’s probably been said over a dozen times in this thread, but what they really need to do is just make the spirit shard reward an infinitely repeatable mastery track that doesn’t require mastery points. That way, if for any reason you’re not able to work on your masteries, you can just switch to spirit shards instead so your XP gain isn’t totally going to waste.

so much this!

i have <30k hot xp from being out of places to store xp. its making me really not want to waste my time playing any of the hot content. which is said, because i love doing the meta events.

yes. i have raided, so i have that track unlocked, and its actually completed. and i haven’t used it since i’m not consistently online to set up a group to raid with. (i also kind of suck at high level play.)

i have two hot mastery points left. i need 12 to finish the last track. to get more i have to play hot. which means all of that xp that could be getting stored someone where is wasted.

this isn’t the first time this happened, especially since bloodstone fen came out. i farmed out as many mastery points as i could, and there are two left that i could probably get with out hours and hours for the adventures. (remember what i said about sucking at high level play? they might not be ‘high level’ but they require more coordination than i normally have) not being able to do them doesn’t bother me. i’ll struggle through getting silver on them all eventually to fill the collections, but i probably won’t enjoy it.

and all that xp from doing to metas to open the adventures…and the rewards from the adventures themselves? totally wasted.

draxynnic.3719:

It’s probably been said over a dozen times in this thread, but what they really need to do is just make the spirit shard reward an infinitely repeatable mastery track that doesn’t require mastery points. That way, if for any reason you’re not able to work on your masteries, you can just switch to spirit shards instead so your XP gain isn’t totally going to waste.

The system is the way it is to try to get players into modes that they don’t want to play. I originally loved GW2 because I could choose how to play. Now that liking is slowly being worn away by all this gating of rewards and progression behind modes that I don’t want to play.

AliamRationem.5172:

draxynnic.3719:

It’s probably been said over a dozen times in this thread, but what they really need to do is just make the spirit shard reward an infinitely repeatable mastery track that doesn’t require mastery points. That way, if for any reason you’re not able to work on your masteries, you can just switch to spirit shards instead so your XP gain isn’t totally going to waste.

It has been said, but it could be said again. I think a reward track for post-cap experience independent of the mastery system is a great idea.

I think so too.

The problem atm is that you can have the points to max everything and be happily along your way but then they add more masteries, and you’re generally having to go back to gain even more mastery points. Granted, the Living Story have more points than needed but it does feel like the goal is constantly moving.

Blackwyn.8127:

The entitlement and arrogance in this thread is sickening and worries me. Everyone that has put the effort to reach to a state that they only need one raid to get full masteries, are capable of getting it.

The truth is not that you’re “not capable of raiding”, that “you’re not good enough for raiding” or “that it shouldn’t be part of its completion process”.
The truth is, that you’re lazy and not willing to put the effort to learn an event. The spoiled kid mentality in this thread that if you want something, it should just be given to you makes my dog cry.

So if someone has completed all the masteries including raiding they’re just fine, but if they’ve completed all masteries except raiding they’re …lazy? Guess I know where I stand. Thanks. My effort to complete ALL masteries except the one “optional” game mode I’m not interested in apparently makes me lazy and spoiled. Is your dog sensitive to hypocrisy and elitism by any chance?

I don’t think it makes you lazy, that’s for sure but I don’t understand where people get off thinking they deserve the bonus rewards for NOT doing the content needed to unlock it. Yes, I do think entitled is the correct word for that.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think it makes you lazy, that’s for sure but I don’t understand where people get off thinking they deserve the bonus rewards for NOT doing the content needed to unlock it. Yes, I do think entitled is the correct word for that.

Why is it OK for some players to demand changes to the game to suit their preferences, but not for others to make demands to suit theirs? We have raids at all due to such demands. Raids have exclusive rewards because raiders demanded those rewards. Apparently, those players were not entitled, yet they bucked not only the status quo but also ANet statements that there would be no raiding in GW2.

smh

Funny, the Devs spoke about raiding even before the game launched. (They talk about raiding in many of the pre-release interviews.) I’ve no idea if there are statements about ‘never having raids’ in the game after launch, but if so, then I guess they changed their minds, and then changed them, again.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think it makes you lazy, that’s for sure but I don’t understand where people get off thinking they deserve the bonus rewards for NOT doing the content needed to unlock it. Yes, I do think entitled is the correct word for that.

The funny thing is, ‘entitled’ has been thrown around so easily at those that disagree with this raiding requirement that not only has it lost any meaning, but it’s actually starting to sound like a badge of honor to me. (Mmm… entitled)

It’s a strange situation. Here’s this “challenging end-game” content. It sounds like something that should only be do-able by the best of the best. It sounds like something hard. But apparently, anyone can do it, and should. And if they don’t, they’re just being lazy/entitled. And, instead of building up to it and training your skills until you feel ready to tackle raiding, it’s really something you should do as soon as possible just so you can see your XP bar go up in some maps. And once it’s unlocked, you can go back to ignoring raiding. To me, that seems like it would trivialise the end-game content, turning it from something epic to a temporary chore you just need to get through. It seems to imply that raiding isn’t interesting enough by itself and anet needed a way to herd more players into it. That’s demeaning to raiding and players alike. Or whatever. I’m just your average lazy/entitled bum. And casual too! I have the trifecta!!

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Funny, the Devs spoke about raiding even before the game launched. (They talk about raiding in many of the pre-release interviews.) I’ve no idea if there are statements about ‘never having raids’ in the game after launch, but if so, then I guess they changed their minds, and then changed them, again.

I remember references to explorable dungeons as raid equivalents. I also remember 3+ years of no raids in GW2. Regardless of who said what and when, it’s a stretch to think they’d have added raids if demand for did not exceed reactions against — and there certainly was reaction against.

I think a lot of people here forget that raid masteries can be unlocked with first event of the 3rd raid wing, which is not a boss fight, doesn’t require meta gear, food etc…Just watch a vidéo or read à guide. I think some gold aventure are way harder than this…

I did not follow all the responses that were put into this thread but just 2 random questions: if players are so into having spirit shards, why not consume a ToK on your lvl 80 toon ? What content in the game require you to actively spend spirit shards in a regular basis so that it justifies the need to get them at each end of xP bar ?

flog.3485:

I did not follow all the responses that were put into this thread but just 2 random questions: if players are so into having spirit shards, why not consume a ToK on your lvl 80 toon ? What content in the game require you to actively spend spirit shards in a regular basis so that it justifies the need to get them at each end of xP bar ?

Spirit shards can be converted to gold (at quite a decent return) and many are also required for legendaries. But another big issue that I personally felt when I encountered this problem is that back before HoT I would get a skillpoint (now shard) after each level up. With the new mastery system that got replaced, however once I hit the same point again all my experience was going to waste, it was literally worthless. After playing the game for 4 years knowing your experience was going towards something useful was a nice thing to have. People don’t like to have benefits taken away. Now I personally ended up just killing a Vale Guardian, but raiding is definetely not something for everyone as it requires quite some hours of dedicated time. Exactly what many players in GW2 don’t have.

Furthermore, this might repeat itself for those who have HoT but don’t own certain LS episodes, or when a new raid comes out etc. I agree with people that a permanent solution should come for this.

flog.3485:

I did not follow all the responses that were put into this thread

If you did, you’d know it was never about spirit shards specifically. It’s about your experience not getting to total waste. And about locking things that should be (and at some time was) accessible to pretty much everyone behind some side content designed for a small minority of player population.

Also, about Anet forgetting (again) that this small minority of players is not representative of the community (and thus treating them as a baseline when designing new things is most possibly a really bad idea).

Lethalvriend.1723:

flog.3485:

I did not follow all the responses that were put into this thread but just 2 random questions: if players are so into having spirit shards, why not consume a ToK on your lvl 80 toon ? What content in the game require you to actively spend spirit shards in a regular basis so that it justifies the need to get them at each end of xP bar ?

Spirit shards can be converted to gold (at quite a decent return) and many are also required for legendaries. But another big issue that I personally felt when I encountered this problem is that back before HoT I would get a skillpoint (now shard) after each level up. With the new mastery system that got replaced, however once I hit the same point again all my experience was going to waste, it was literally worthless. After playing the game for 4 years knowing your experience was going towards something useful was a nice thing to have. People don’t like to have benefits taken away. Now I personally ended up just killing a Vale Guardian, but raiding is definetely not something for everyone as it requires quite some hours of dedicated time. Exactly what many players in GW2 don’t have.

Furthermore, this might repeat itself for those who have HoT but don’t own certain LS episodes, or when a new raid comes out etc. I agree with people that a permanent solution should come for this.

Ok thx for responding but you did not answer my question: why not spend a ToK? Don’t you have a pile of ToK that you don’t know what to do with it? And no it doesn’t seem like that you spend it on a regular basis simply because you don’t craft legendaries in a matter of small period of time. And not everybody wants to craft a legendary. Personally I would say the best way to acquire gold on a regular basis is to play silverwaste or tarir or dragon stand. However I would agree with your last point: maybe Anet could tune it so that the acquisition of spirit shards only take into account the last mastery line that has been added to the game? Anyway even with this suggestion, I do get spirit shards in HoT and I have never been into a raid instance. What strikes me also is that I get more shards in less time that it would take me to fill up many xP bars. In the end I really don’t see much problem

Astralporing.1957:

flog.3485:

I did not follow all the responses that were put into this thread

If you did, you’d know it was never about spirit shards specifically. It’s about your experience not getting to total waste. And about locking things that should be (and at some time was) accessible to pretty much everyone behind some side content designed for a small minority of player population.

Also, about Anet forgetting (again) that this small minority of players is not representative of the community (and thus treating them as a baseline when designing new things is most possibly a really bad idea).

Ok thx for the reminder. I guess once again I disagree with your stance on the game. I don’t play to fill up xP bars to get some “benefits” out of it, I just play for enjoyment. It seems your enjoyment is different from mine.

spirit shards are not rare. i have 1k and havnt finished maguuma or tyria. i could but i dont need to atm. i dont see why you need 3k+ spirit shards.

Astralporing.1957:

flog.3485:

I did not follow all the responses that were put into this thread

If you did, you’d know it was never about spirit shards specifically. It’s about your experience not getting to total waste. And about locking things that should be (and at some time was) accessible to pretty much everyone behind some side content designed for a small minority of player population.

Small minority? The maps are full with ppl who have max mastery lvl. All you need is to do one raid boss. You can do W3 escort event( easiest) where people usually don;t care about LI and experience in raids. Or, if not, you can buy Vale Guardian for 40-50 gold…..Ppl throw more than 50gold in mf weekly then they come here and cry about not being able to unlock their raid mastery. Raids are ok as they are and they are not gonna change just because some ppl wants to get carried.

Daniel.5428:

Small minority? The maps are full with ppl who have max mastery lvl. All you need is to do one raid boss. You can do W3 escort event( easiest) where people usually don;t care about LI and experience in raids. Or, if not, you can buy Vale Guardian for 40-50 gold…..Ppl throw more than 50gold in mf weekly then they come here and cry about not being able to unlock their raid mastery. Raids are ok as they are and they are not gonna change just because some ppl wants to get carried.

Exactly, but there are some people here on the forum that will use many topics in order to say their hate about raids, and how about dev made a mistake with them.

Blackwyn.8127:

Now let’s put this into a different perspective. Imagine the players that only raid and don’t want to PvE to get full masteries. Other than the basics and raid masteries, they haven’t touched the rest at all. If these guys wanted to get full masteries so they can get their spirit shards, how long do you think it would take them? Do you think they have it as easy as you guys that they only need to do one event and it’s over? They would have tons of hours to play content they don’t want to to look forward to.

If you’d followed the spirit of the thread, you would see that what’s really being asked for is a post-80 level tick reward that is not gated by Mastery completion. Were that to happen, that hypothetical player you’ve postulated could gain said reward by earning XP playing content he enjoys, the same as everyone else.

Blackwyn.8127:

But here’s the mind blower. How many posts have you seen of people that just raids, that they deserve to get spirit shards too cause they don’t want to do map exploring, adventures, quests, meta events, pve?
Let that sink in to you for a moment.

Perhaps those players who are reaping the substantial rewards offered by raids are feeling less hard done by than those whose preferences are, by comparison, nowhere near as rewarding.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think it makes you lazy, that’s for sure but I don’t understand where people get off thinking they deserve the bonus rewards for NOT doing the content needed to unlock it. Yes, I do think entitled is the correct word for that.

Why is it OK for some players to demand changes to the game to suit their preferences, but not for others to make demands to suit theirs?

I guess it depends what people are after … you can make all the demands you want. I think this particular demand is ridiculous.

“I want what they get, but let me tell you how much I’m not going to do what’s needed to get it”.

Let’s be realistic here, people who had enough patience to get all mastery points from all the other contents by strongboxes/insights,, doing adventures and other achievements not willing to do a 15 minute event (that only fails if people have no idea of what they are doing and comp doesn’t really matter as long as you have two healers) to open the raid masteries makes no sense.

nsleep.7839:

Let’s be realistic here, people who had enough patience to get all mastery points from all the other contents by strongboxes/insights,, doing adventures and other achievements not willing to do a 15 minute event (that only fails if people have no idea of what they are doing and comp doesn’t really matter as long as you have two healers) to open the raid masteries makes no sense.

+1
It is honestly more “work” to acquire all the mastery points needed to earn spirit shards again.

Also, the “lock-out” from spirit shards only takes place in HoT maps. Being anywhere else in Tyria still allows one to earn spirit shards as long as they have all the Tyrian masteries unlocked.

nsleep.7839:

Let’s be realistic here, people who had enough patience to get all mastery points from all the other contents by strongboxes/insights,, doing adventures and other achievements not willing to do a 15 minute event (that only fails if people have no idea of what they are doing and comp doesn’t really matter as long as you have two healers) to open the raid masteries makes no sense.

Or perhaps it tells you how much raids are really popular, if even people that were able to max all the other masteries so dislike them.

By the way, i feel that not requiring any masteries in order to start again obtaining past-80 xp levelup rewards would be perfectly fine, and would be way better than just singling out specifically raid masteries.

welp I must say that at the moment being I’m really confused on how those spirit shards level works

for example recently when running second toon throught LS2 I’ve noticed that in instances I have spirit shard exp bar instead of mastery one [and I’m far from maxing any mastery at this point] which has somewhat progressed durin that instance

and after ending that instance I have made sure that my current central tyria mastery has also progressed

which, leads me to being convinced that it is actually one huge pile of mess :/

Blackwyn.8127:

Yea, about that.. One Tarir 30min multiloot run will yield you more gold than completing all the raid wings.

Oh, please, we both know it’s going to get nerfed soon. And nerfed hard.

Blackwyn.8127:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Perhaps those players who are reaping the substantial rewards offered by raids are feeling less hard done by than those whose preferences are, by comparison, nowhere near as rewarding.

Yea, about that.. One Tarir 30min multiloot run will yield you more gold than completing all the raid wings.

If I were to imagine something in PvE less interesting than raiding, it would be the multi-loot run.

Astralporing.1957:

nsleep.7839:

Let’s be realistic here, people who had enough patience to get all mastery points from all the other contents by strongboxes/insights,, doing adventures and other achievements not willing to do a 15 minute event (that only fails if people have no idea of what they are doing and comp doesn’t really matter as long as you have two healers) to open the raid masteries makes no sense.

Or perhaps it tells you how much raids are really popular, if even people that were able to max all the other masteries so dislike them.

By the way, i feel that not requiring any masteries in order to start again obtaining past-80 xp levelup rewards would be perfectly fine, and would be way better than just singling out specifically raid masteries.

Just social anxiety, the same reason people are asking in another thread to nerf Hero Points, people apparently are affraid of interacting with other players in this game, even if for short amounts of time for easy tasks.

And maybe, I have zero interest in completing the Nuhoch mastery line so I would like the shards without having to do it, but I’m still getting the mastery points to complete it because there is no way around it.

Razor.9872:

Exactly. Raiders could be considered the only sub-category of the playerbase incapable of using/earning elite-specs without doing the rest of the game

Untrue. In that regard raiders are no different than Dungeon or Fractal runners. It’s because raiding is not considered to be a completely separate mode, but a submode of pve.
Raiders are expected to pve. Pve players may raid if they want to, but raiding is supposed to be just an optional mode. The same as Dungeons or Fractals.
Also, notice how they are not expected to do “the rest of the game” – only their base mode (PvE). Nobody requires them to do sPvP or WvW.

Blackwyn.8127:

If you’d put all this energy towards the Escort event instead, you’d already been done and over with it a long time ago.

Blackwyn.8127:

But here’s the mind blower. How many posts have you seen of people that just raids, that they deserve to get spirit shards too cause they don’t want to do map exploring, adventures, quests, meta events, pve?
Let that sink in to you for a moment.

It seems like people tend to forget you need a raid mastery in order to do the escort event in first place. You’ll need at least one mesmer with raid masteries who’s got nothing to do but helping other groups to unlock them (+ time to do so).
Raids are not solo-able like HoT adventures or map exploration. It takes organization, time and ten people who know what they’re doing to succeed.

But the main reason why there is a problem in first place is the psychological aspect of an xp bar and xp in general. Put yourself in the place of a game designer. Now ask yourself: Why did they invent xp in games? It’s there to reward players for what they did and show them some sort of progress. Even though there are no more levels (after lvl80/ all masteries unlocked) – if you do events, your xp bar will be filled. Your reward center will be stimulated – you’ll feel good. Like a dog getting rewarded with a treat.

Why would you play in HoT maps (now even Ember Bay!) if it doesn’t feel good to you? Now why is it about xp and not about gold or karma? It would be different if we got a gold or karma bar at the bottom of our screen. And every time you kill an enemy you’d get gold or karma instead (+ notifications).

Blocking players from getting xp is just illogical with regards to basic game design principles. It’s counterproductive to the idea of making people play your game (except for forcing people to raid which many players struggle with).

Astralporing.1957:

Razor.9872:

Exactly. Raiders could be considered the only sub-category of the playerbase incapable of using/earning elite-specs without doing the rest of the game

Untrue. In that regard raiders are no different than Dungeon or Fractal runners. It’s because raiding is not considered to be a completely separate mode, but a submode of pve.
Raiders are expected to pve. Pve players may raid if they want to, but raiding is supposed to be just an optional mode. The same as Dungeons or Fractals.
Also, notice how they are not expected to do “the rest of the game” – only their base mode (PvE). Nobody requires them to do sPvP or WvW.

The double-standard is real.

Razor.9872:

Astralporing.1957:

Razor.9872:

Exactly. Raiders could be considered the only sub-category of the playerbase incapable of using/earning elite-specs without doing the rest of the game

Untrue. In that regard raiders are no different than Dungeon or Fractal runners. It’s because raiding is not considered to be a completely separate mode, but a submode of pve.
Raiders are expected to pve. Pve players may raid if they want to, but raiding is supposed to be just an optional mode. The same as Dungeons or Fractals.
Also, notice how they are not expected to do “the rest of the game” – only their base mode (PvE). Nobody requires them to do sPvP or WvW.

The double-standard is real.

If you would like to start a thread about the game being unfair for Raiders (which didn’t exist until recently), be my guest. That has zero to do with the point of this thread.

Razor.9872:

The double-standard is real.

What double standard? I see none. Raids aren’t (and were never intended) to be a separate gamemode, so you shouldn’t expect them to be treated like one.

(and, as i have mentioned, they are hardly unique in being like that – Dungeons and Fractals are exactly the same)

I really don’t care about earning more Spirit Shards (they are already common drops), but it does seem as though a lot of the player-base considers Raiding as a separate game mode in the ways they refer to it. They might not call it as such, but the comments about it and unwillingness to step foot in it (just like WvW or PvP) make it seem like has little to do with what players have come to consider GW2 ‘PvE’.

Oh, well; carry on. I don’t really have a horse in this race. I might if it were almost anything but Spirit Shards.

As a long time SWTOR player who only recently came to GW2, I’m frankly a bit shocked that we get anything at all for grinding xp past level cap. Maybe it’s poor design on SWTOR’s part, but your xp bar in that game just sits empty after you hit cap. Frankly I never felt like there needed to be anything further, and here in GW2 I think it’s just a nice plus that some progress is available after you reach the level cap.

I realize I might feel differently once I finish all the masteries (I’m at 124 now) and grind out the few Legendary weapons I’m interested in. Lol I also realize that from a game design aspect, SWTOR sets the bar incredibly low. That being said, I don’t think filling up an xp bar and getting rewarded for it beyond the level cap is the the only (or even a primary) reason to stick around for endgame.

voltaicbore.8012:

As a long time SWTOR player who only recently came to GW2, I’m frankly a bit shocked that we get anything at all for grinding xp past level cap. Maybe it’s poor design on SWTOR’s part, but your xp bar in that game just sits empty after you hit cap. Frankly I never felt like there needed to be anything further, and here in GW2 I think it’s just a nice plus that some progress is available after you reach the level cap.

I realize I might feel differently once I finish all the masteries (I’m at 124 now) and grind out the few Legendary weapons I’m interested in. Lol I also realize that from a game design aspect, SWTOR sets the bar incredibly low. That being said, I don’t think filling up an xp bar and getting rewarded for it beyond the level cap is the the only (or even a primary) reason to stick around for endgame.

The issue isn’t whether you should get XP/shards after you hit 80. The issue is that some players do and some players don’t.

Djinn.9245:

The issue isn’t whether you should get XP/shards after you hit 80. The issue is that some players do and some players don’t.

Yet all players can if they’re willing to invest a finite amount of time and effort to do so. No one is suffering exclusion save the exclusion they choose to inflict on themselves.

If you want something bad enough, you find a way. If you don’t, then you find excuses.

~EW

Djinn.9245:

voltaicbore.8012:

As a long time SWTOR player who only recently came to GW2, I’m frankly a bit shocked that we get anything at all for grinding xp past level cap. Maybe it’s poor design on SWTOR’s part, but your xp bar in that game just sits empty after you hit cap. Frankly I never felt like there needed to be anything further, and here in GW2 I think it’s just a nice plus that some progress is available after you reach the level cap.

I realize I might feel differently once I finish all the masteries (I’m at 124 now) and grind out the few Legendary weapons I’m interested in. Lol I also realize that from a game design aspect, SWTOR sets the bar incredibly low. That being said, I don’t think filling up an xp bar and getting rewarded for it beyond the level cap is the the only (or even a primary) reason to stick around for endgame.

The issue isn’t whether you should get XP/shards after you hit 80. The issue is that some players do and some players don’t.

Like the exclusion that those who mastered the legendary mastery track are able to craft HoT legendary weapons while those who didn’t master it would not be able to?

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

voltaicbore.8012:

As a long time SWTOR player who only recently came to GW2, I’m frankly a bit shocked that we get anything at all for grinding xp past level cap. Maybe it’s poor design on SWTOR’s part, but your xp bar in that game just sits empty after you hit cap. Frankly I never felt like there needed to be anything further, and here in GW2 I think it’s just a nice plus that some progress is available after you reach the level cap.

I realize I might feel differently once I finish all the masteries (I’m at 124 now) and grind out the few Legendary weapons I’m interested in. Lol I also realize that from a game design aspect, SWTOR sets the bar incredibly low. That being said, I don’t think filling up an xp bar and getting rewarded for it beyond the level cap is the the only (or even a primary) reason to stick around for endgame.

The issue isn’t whether you should get XP/shards after you hit 80. The issue is that some players do and some players don’t.

Like the exclusion that those who mastered the legendary mastery track are able to craft HoT legendary weapons while those who didn’t master it would not be able to?

Legendary mastery track is not locked behind any specific content. If raid mastery didn’t require an unlock, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Besides, it’s rather obvious that anyone interested in crafting legendaries would have a legendary crafting mastery – just as it is understandable that raiding might require raid masteries. In this case however the unlock action and the unlocked part aren’t related at all. It would be more like requiring you to craft a HoT legendary before allowing you to Raid. I’m pretty sure all raiders would be perfectly okay with that [/sarcasm]

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

voltaicbore.8012:

As a long time SWTOR player who only recently came to GW2, I’m frankly a bit shocked that we get anything at all for grinding xp past level cap. Maybe it’s poor design on SWTOR’s part, but your xp bar in that game just sits empty after you hit cap. Frankly I never felt like there needed to be anything further, and here in GW2 I think it’s just a nice plus that some progress is available after you reach the level cap.

I realize I might feel differently once I finish all the masteries (I’m at 124 now) and grind out the few Legendary weapons I’m interested in. Lol I also realize that from a game design aspect, SWTOR sets the bar incredibly low. That being said, I don’t think filling up an xp bar and getting rewarded for it beyond the level cap is the the only (or even a primary) reason to stick around for endgame.

The issue isn’t whether you should get XP/shards after you hit 80. The issue is that some players do and some players don’t.

Like the exclusion that those who mastered the legendary mastery track are able to craft HoT legendary weapons while those who didn’t master it would not be able to?

Legendary mastery track is not locked behind any specific content. If raid mastery didn’t require an unlock, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Besides, it’s rather obvious that anyone interested in crafting legendaries would have a legendary crafting mastery – just as it is understandable that raiding might require raid masteries. In this case however the unlock action and the unlocked part aren’t related at all. It would be more like requiring you to craft a HoT legendary before allowing you to Raid. I’m pretty sure all raiders would be perfectly okay with that [/sarcasm]

The point was that something was locked behind having to do something which is applicable to everyone. Players have to max all masteries in order to obtain spirit shards when they level. Just as those that want to craft legendary armor must max that mastery line. I wasn’t getting into specifics on what someone seems content they wish or wish not to do as that is very subjective and varies greatly among players.

You have a group that doesn’t want to do a particular thing required in order to get the benefits of someone that has done that thing. Some players don’t want to do raids but want the benefits of those who have completed at least one raid boss and are now able to acquire spirit shards from leveling. There may be some players that don’t want to farm Tyria MP, or buy LS2, but want the benefit of those that have done so are receiving.

Sounds a bit like those threads players create wanting access to Heritage armor. They don’t want to fulfill the requirements, either.

I suppose there will always be threads lamenting certain content out of the reach of some, but available for others willing to put in the extra effort. /shrug

Its illogical to gate the base method of character progression. Anyone who knows anything about the psychology of games knows that games started giving XP because players like to see progression.

he thread is about raiding. Lets be clear:

- If you want to raid you are expected to use certain build or not be welcome.

- If you want to raid you have commit to schedules arranged by others, or you need to take on responsibility for organizing a successful raid.

- Out of all content in Guild wars 2 only raids are tuned to the point where people feel the need to exclude others.

Having max mastery in everything in the game, but punished by being capped from any more xp generation ever unless you agree to the above – that’s unfair and unreasonable.

Imagine there was an pvp mastery that required you to get to the legendary league – that wouldn’t be fair either – indeed it would disrupt genuine pvp players. Likewise with raiding.

Djinn.9245:

Its illogical to gate the base method of character progression. Anyone who knows anything about the psychology of games knows that games started giving XP because players like to see progression.

Spirit shards are a currency. They offer no form of player progression.