Guild Wars 2

I’m just reading this topic for the first time. No, completing a Raid should not be a requirement to unlock. I have to admit, having a dead XP bar that sits there lifeless has been disturbing to me. Though I have to say, I do like not having that screamingly blindingly annoying yellow and white color of the bar being black. Much better experience and the Dev’s should really start adding ways to mute the Hud or make a transparency slider for it.

The easiest option could be to make a repeatable Spirit Shard Mastery line. Make it the default line that runs and the game reverts to, when no other Masteries are toggled on.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Its illogical to gate the base method of character progression. Anyone who knows anything about the psychology of games knows that games started giving XP because players like to see progression.

Spirit shards are a currency. They offer no form of player progression.

Wealth is progression…….

DeWolfe.2174:

I’m just reading this topic for the first time. No, completing a Raid should not be a requirement to unlock. I have to admit, having a dead XP bar that sits there lifeless has been disturbing to me. Though I have to say, I do like not having that screamingly blindingly annoying yellow and white color of the bar being black. Much better experience and the Dev’s should really start adding ways to mute the Hud or make a transparency slider for it.

The easiest option could be to make a repeatable Spirit Shard Mastery line. Make it the default line that runs and the game reverts to, when no other Masteries are toggled on.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Its illogical to gate the base method of character progression. Anyone who knows anything about the psychology of games knows that games started giving XP because players like to see progression.

Spirit shards are a currency. They offer no form of player progression.

Wealth is progression…….

Not really. Most definitely not character progression. Spirit shards are rewards/currency. Otherwise we can argue for increasing drop rates for precursors as it improves character progression. Yeah… no.

Djinn.9245:

Its illogical to gate the base method of character progression. Anyone who knows anything about the psychology of games knows that games started giving XP because players like to see progression.

Good thing that obtaining spirit shards, which is a crafting material, has nothing to do with character progression then, otherwise we would have a problem here ><

I think it’s pretty safe to say at this point that your constant reference to what is being discussed in this thread as being a ‘progression’ issue is just really far fetched, insincere attempt to justify your position. Getting a material reward from repeated XP bar completions has zero impact on your progression.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Sounds a bit like those threads players create wanting access to Heritage armor. They don’t want to fulfill the requirements, either.

Not close to the same. A level tick benefit was available to everyone at one point. Heritage Armor was not. It’s one thing to ask for access to exclusive rewards. It’s another to protest against ANet taking something that was once available to everyone and restoring it — but only for completionists.

I wonder if those adopting this position were also unreserved advocates of ANet removing iteration 1 guild benefits and placing similar benefits behind the HoT GH “experience.”

I don’t know. A bit and not close may be nearly the same. Both are small amounts.

Ayrilana.1396:

DeWolfe.2174:

I’m just reading this topic for the first time. No, completing a Raid should not be a requirement to unlock. I have to admit, having a dead XP bar that sits there lifeless has been disturbing to me. Though I have to say, I do like not having that screamingly blindingly annoying yellow and white color of the bar being black. Much better experience and the Dev’s should really start adding ways to mute the Hud or make a transparency slider for it.

The easiest option could be to make a repeatable Spirit Shard Mastery line. Make it the default line that runs and the game reverts to, when no other Masteries are toggled on.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Its illogical to gate the base method of character progression. Anyone who knows anything about the psychology of games knows that games started giving XP because players like to see progression.

Spirit shards are a currency. They offer no form of player progression.

Wealth is progression…….

Not really. Most definitely not character progression. Spirit shards are rewards/currency. Otherwise we can argue for increasing drop rates for precursors as it improves character progression. Yeah… no.

Gearing up a character and obtaining appearance item’s is certainly most of the progression in game. Spirit Shards can be converted to gold and other items. Spirit Shards are also required for our “Legendary Journeys” which is absolutely a form of progression. So… yes really.

I don’t get why some get so defensive and hostile, because others find certain aspects to be problematic.

How does non-raiders being able to progress their XP bar affect those who want to raid?

Does the non-raider asking for this to be fixed affect you negatively?

Do the raiders not get the benefit of playing the harder content and better rewards?

What do you really care if they earn spirit shards or not?

You are not impacted. Plain and simple. They are, and that’s the point they are hoping gets taking into consideration by the development team.

Personally, as raids are its own game type (despite being in a HoT region) I think they should have worked where the XP gain from HoT areas could not progress the bars and ONLY the XP gained from inside the associated raid wing could.

After all, we do not get to earn PvP or WvW XP while we are playing in the PvE game type so why should we be able to simply kill one boss and then run around HoT regions for an hour on an XP booster to max out raid masteries.

No. Raids should just have simply had their own “Raid” header (untied from any other regions mastery line) with “Forsaken Thicket” inside as a subsection from the start followed by any and all new raids as they came out.

That way it would not matter if they were in HoT regions, Core regions, future regions (crystal desert), etc.

DeWolfe.2174:

Ayrilana.1396:

DeWolfe.2174:

I’m just reading this topic for the first time. No, completing a Raid should not be a requirement to unlock. I have to admit, having a dead XP bar that sits there lifeless has been disturbing to me. Though I have to say, I do like not having that screamingly blindingly annoying yellow and white color of the bar being black. Much better experience and the Dev’s should really start adding ways to mute the Hud or make a transparency slider for it.

The easiest option could be to make a repeatable Spirit Shard Mastery line. Make it the default line that runs and the game reverts to, when no other Masteries are toggled on.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Its illogical to gate the base method of character progression. Anyone who knows anything about the psychology of games knows that games started giving XP because players like to see progression.

Spirit shards are a currency. They offer no form of player progression.

Wealth is progression…….

Not really. Most definitely not character progression. Spirit shards are rewards/currency. Otherwise we can argue for increasing drop rates for precursors as it improves character progression. Yeah… no.

Gearing up a character and obtaining appearance item’s is certainly most of the progression in game. Spirit Shards can be converted to gold and other items. Spirit Shards are also required for our “Legendary Journeys” which is absolutely a form of progression. So… yes really.

A bit of a stretch to call rewards character progression but whatever helps someone’s argument, right? Why stop there. You can twist around the meaning of character progression to the point that everything applies to it.

Spirit shards are simply a reward of currency for making the effort to max all of their masteries including what entails unlocking them.

There is a simple solution to this problem and that is this; make the instance accessible by singular players and unlock the Mastery Track by viewing a cinematic or something (something that explains the lore behind the raid and the benefits the track might provide). Discussion as to the legitimacy of spirit shards as “progression” is irrelevant, it’s not fair to lock a progression mechanic behind one part of one gametype (those last 8 MPs…I need mah 173).

Also, to answer Michael a few posts above me…
PvP, WvW, and PvE all have separate XP’s to earn in their respective environments. Raids still fall under the PvE banner and should be treated as such. The more you section off game play like this the more isolated each respective playerbase becomes.

DeWolfe.2174:

Ayrilana.1396:

DeWolfe.2174:

I’m just reading this topic for the first time. No, completing a Raid should not be a requirement to unlock. I have to admit, having a dead XP bar that sits there lifeless has been disturbing to me. Though I have to say, I do like not having that screamingly blindingly annoying yellow and white color of the bar being black. Much better experience and the Dev’s should really start adding ways to mute the Hud or make a transparency slider for it.

The easiest option could be to make a repeatable Spirit Shard Mastery line. Make it the default line that runs and the game reverts to, when no other Masteries are toggled on.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Its illogical to gate the base method of character progression. Anyone who knows anything about the psychology of games knows that games started giving XP because players like to see progression.

Spirit shards are a currency. They offer no form of player progression.

Wealth is progression…….

Not really. Most definitely not character progression. Spirit shards are rewards/currency. Otherwise we can argue for increasing drop rates for precursors as it improves character progression. Yeah… no.

Gearing up a character and obtaining appearance item’s is certainly most of the progression in game. Spirit Shards can be converted to gold and other items. Spirit Shards are also required for our “Legendary Journeys” which is absolutely a form of progression. So… yes really.

Even if that is the case … you aren’t locked out of earning spirit shards anyways, so the argument that shards locked behind raid mastery affects progression is nonsense to begin with.

Unlock that mastery → problem solved. There should not any locked masteries because this is silly. It’s like locking a Mastery Tree behind WvWvW which don’t play everybody. U have to earn Points and there are Points in the Raids, that’s enough.

Leolas.6273:

Unlock that mastery -> problem solved. There should not any locked masteries because this is silly.

All other points aside, if ANet could do this, please. Most raid groups are going to want people to have these masteries in place anyway, so why wait for the first raid boss completion when it could just be open and available for players to take when they have enough mastery points?

vesica tempestas.1563:

- If you want to raid you are expected to use certain build or not be welcome.

Only if you raid with people you don’t know. Join a group that doesn’t care what you run. There are enough people here who seem to think the same thing. Why not form a group?

vesica tempestas.1563:

- If you want to raid you have commit to schedules arranged by others, or you need to take on responsibility for organizing a successful raid.

You don’t need to. If you were to form a group like I suggested you do, and enough people were in it, you could just post in a guild chat “looking to do xxxxx. Who wants to join?” There, no scheduling, and no responsibility beyond starting the conversation.

vesica tempestas.1563:

- Out of all content in Guild wars 2 only raids are tuned to the point where people feel the need to exclude others.

I suppose you have never played in old CoF runs, or Aetherblade path runs, or the days when Tequatl and the TTW were introduced. Not to mention organized WvW zergs and PvP premades. That blanket statement you made is hardly accurate.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Having max mastery in everything in the game, but punished by being capped from any more xp generation ever unless you agree to the above – that’s unfair and unreasonable.

I agree that it would be unreasonable. Thankfully, that is not the case.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Imagine there was an pvp mastery that required you to get to the legendary league – that wouldn’t be fair either – indeed it would disrupt genuine pvp players. Likewise with raiding.

I would not carelessly throw around absolutes so casually with assumptions. In my opinion, that sounds like it could help add more pvp players to the gamemode.

Razor.9872:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Imagine there was an pvp mastery that required you to get to the legendary league – that wouldn’t be fair either – indeed it would disrupt genuine pvp players. Likewise with raiding.

[…] In my opinion, that sounds like it could help add more pvp players to the gamemode.

And that is exactly the mindset of Arenanet right now in terms of raiding. There were people who asked for raids, so let them have fun with raiding. Maybe some players who didn’t ever think of it before might also try it out and have fun. Why is it necessary to ‘add more players to the gamemode’?

Forcing players into a part of a game won’t bring more people into it.
People who ‘have’ to raid in order to unlock their masteries will certainly not come back again after they’ve unlocked them. Some might also buy a raid if they’re not able to succeed. So what’s the purpose of that?

Also, the new maps such as Ember Bay are also affected. They’re considered to be part of the ‘Heart of Maguuma’ so they’re still locked for xp. Of course the current living world season is part of HoT, but lorewise and in a geographical point of view it doesn’t make sense at all.

Obtena.7952:

DeWolfe.2174:

Ayrilana.1396:

DeWolfe.2174:

I’m just reading this topic for the first time. No, completing a Raid should not be a requirement to unlock. I have to admit, having a dead XP bar that sits there lifeless has been disturbing to me. Though I have to say, I do like not having that screamingly blindingly annoying yellow and white color of the bar being black. Much better experience and the Dev’s should really start adding ways to mute the Hud or make a transparency slider for it.

The easiest option could be to make a repeatable Spirit Shard Mastery line. Make it the default line that runs and the game reverts to, when no other Masteries are toggled on.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Its illogical to gate the base method of character progression. Anyone who knows anything about the psychology of games knows that games started giving XP because players like to see progression.

Spirit shards are a currency. They offer no form of player progression.

Wealth is progression…….

Not really. Most definitely not character progression. Spirit shards are rewards/currency. Otherwise we can argue for increasing drop rates for precursors as it improves character progression. Yeah… no.

Gearing up a character and obtaining appearance item’s is certainly most of the progression in game. Spirit Shards can be converted to gold and other items. Spirit Shards are also required for our “Legendary Journeys” which is absolutely a form of progression. So… yes really.

Even if that is the case … you aren’t locked out of earning spirit shards anyways, so the argument that shards locked behind raid mastery affects progression is nonsense to begin with.

You keep building your straw man. The suggestion was to have a repeatable mastery track that happens to award shards, so that anyone who wanted not to “waste” XP can use that track. What’s locked is the ability to have the XP do something, not access to shards.

Tekey.7946:

Razor.9872:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Imagine there was an pvp mastery that required you to get to the legendary league – that wouldn’t be fair either – indeed it would disrupt genuine pvp players. Likewise with raiding.

[…] In my opinion, that sounds like it could help add more pvp players to the gamemode.

And that is exactly the mindset of Arenanet right now in terms of raiding. There were people who asked for raids, so let them have fun with raiding. Maybe some players who didn’t ever think of it before might also try it out and have fun. Why is it necessary to ‘add more players to the gamemode’?

Forcing players into a part of a game won’t bring more people into it.
People who ‘have’ to raid in order to unlock their masteries will certainly not come back again after they’ve unlocked them. Some might also buy a raid if they’re not able to succeed. So what’s the purpose of that?

---

Also, the new maps such as Ember Bay are also affected. They’re considered to be part of the ‘Heart of Maguuma’ so they’re still locked for xp. Of course the current living world season is part of HoT, but lorewise and in a geographical point of view it doesn’t make sense at all.

exactly and also, raiding represents the highly tuned end of pve gameplay, targeted at a niche. As i said earlier, nothing wrong with encouraging people to play new forms of content (raiding is not new however, many are sick to death of it) but forcing you to enter at the very top end of pve simply to unlock a mastery line is flawed. Either Allow people to unlock the mastery chain by detuning as Anet has done in the past with tequati , or better, make the mastery chain specific to raiding and decouple it from the xp bar block.

As i said earlier – if you done the same for PVP, it would be unlock a track if you win at ranked or get to a reasonable division – but it would be a nonsense if you only awarded if you got to legendary division which is aimed at dedicated pvp teams.

Razor.9872:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Imagine there was an pvp mastery that required you to get to the legendary league – that wouldn’t be fair either – indeed it would disrupt genuine pvp players. Likewise with raiding.

I would not carelessly throw around absolutes so casually with assumptions. In my opinion, that sounds like it could help add more pvp players to the gamemode.

And it would have similar results as all the previous attempts to add more players to that gamemode. It would burn out semi-casual pvp players (because there’s a majori difference between playing pvp casually, because you want to, and feeling pressured to play it), and make veteran pvpers angry due to influx of “noobs” that would be there only for unlocks.
Just like league, that ended up decreasing pvp population

correction: not all attempts one (reward tracks) was actually succesful. Because it was a pure carrot with no time limitations – you didn’t feel the need to advance the tracks, you could do it at your own pace when you wanted to. There was no other, unrelated content locked out behind it.

a gamemode is a gameplay preference, not something you can just lure players to.
i just can’t stand PvP, even if i get 100G for every kill i would still not do it…..

sorudo.9054:

a gamemode is a gameplay preference, not something you can just lure players to.
i just can’t stand PvP, even if i get 100G for every kill i would still not do it…..

sorudo.9054:

a gamemode is a gameplay preference, not something you can just lure players to.
i just can’t stand PvP, even if i get 100G for every kill i would still not do it…..

I agree. I dislike PvP because of the toxicity it encourages so I would not participate for any reward also.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Obtena.7952:

DeWolfe.2174:

Ayrilana.1396:

DeWolfe.2174:

I’m just reading this topic for the first time. No, completing a Raid should not be a requirement to unlock. I have to admit, having a dead XP bar that sits there lifeless has been disturbing to me. Though I have to say, I do like not having that screamingly blindingly annoying yellow and white color of the bar being black. Much better experience and the Dev’s should really start adding ways to mute the Hud or make a transparency slider for it.

The easiest option could be to make a repeatable Spirit Shard Mastery line. Make it the default line that runs and the game reverts to, when no other Masteries are toggled on.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Its illogical to gate the base method of character progression. Anyone who knows anything about the psychology of games knows that games started giving XP because players like to see progression.

Spirit shards are a currency. They offer no form of player progression.

Wealth is progression…….

Not really. Most definitely not character progression. Spirit shards are rewards/currency. Otherwise we can argue for increasing drop rates for precursors as it improves character progression. Yeah… no.

Gearing up a character and obtaining appearance item’s is certainly most of the progression in game. Spirit Shards can be converted to gold and other items. Spirit Shards are also required for our “Legendary Journeys” which is absolutely a form of progression. So… yes really.

Even if that is the case … you aren’t locked out of earning spirit shards anyways, so the argument that shards locked behind raid mastery affects progression is nonsense to begin with.

You keep building your straw man. The suggestion was to have a repeatable mastery track that happens to award shards, so that anyone who wanted not to “waste” XP can use that track. What’s locked is the ability to have the XP do something, not access to shards.

This guy is right, you must see how awkward the current system is for non completionists. Everything they do grants xp and fills up the bar, but it doesn’t actually reward them with anything. It’s clunky and doesn’t fit in the game.

Razor.9872:

vesica tempestas.1563:

- Out of all content in Guild wars 2 only raids are tuned to the point where people feel the need to exclude others.

I suppose you have never played in old CoF runs, or Aetherblade path runs, or the days when Tequatl and the TTW were introduced. Not to mention organized WvW zergs and PvP premades. That blanket statement you made is hardly accurate.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Imagine there was an pvp mastery that required you to get to the legendary league – that wouldn’t be fair either – indeed it would disrupt genuine pvp players. Likewise with raiding.

I would not carelessly throw around absolutes so casually with assumptions. In my opinion, that sounds like it could help add more pvp players to the gamemode.

You are right with CoF and old PvP, both were sinkholes of fun for the largest majority of people. Skyhammer for example is just garbage for most people, even dedicated PvPers scoff when they have to play on it.
And look how popular aetherblade path is today.
The early Tequatl was as much a slaughterhouse as the early TT worm. Pros were yelling and stomping their feet, but it was to no avail as they simply did not know how it worked themselves in the early days or were so bad at communicating it that it took whole guilds of like minded people to break it. Beside ls1, this was the glory area of GW2 in my opinion.
Nobody can stop you from following an organized zerg around in WvW. They can scream and yell at you, but they can´t stop you following them.

I won´t ever be able to reach legendary level in pvp if not all stars align for me or I train train and train while throwing all my hotkeys around. Being unable to reach something at your own pace is not as satisfactory as you may think.^^

This blew up way more than I intended. I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

MashMash.1645:

I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

They can.

MashMash.1645:

This blew up way more than I intended. I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

It didn’t blow up, don’t worry. It decided to go into a devolving circle for many, many pages.

MashMash.1645:

This blew up way more than I intended. I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

Raiders generally don’t want to be nice to non-raiders. Supposedly it cheapens their experience. Thus you will find some people protesting suggestions like that just on principle.

Astralporing.1957:

MashMash.1645:

This blew up way more than I intended. I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

Raiders generally don’t want to be nice to non-raiders. Supposedly it cheapens their experience. Thus you will find some people protesting suggestions like that just on principle.

Well let’s see.

• I pointed out the easiest raid literally any casual player can do to get the raid masteries unlocked with virtually no investment if raids just aren’t your thing.
• Warmly invited anyone who so wishes to a great guild of folks who are always doing raids and often do training runs.

You’re right man. I’m an irredeemable monster who just wants to keep all the raids to myself.

Filthy peasants.

draxynnic.3719:

It’s probably been said over a dozen times in this thread, but what they really need to do is just make the spirit shard reward an infinitely repeatable mastery track that doesn’t require mastery points. That way, if for any reason you’re not able to work on your masteries, you can just switch to spirit shards instead so your XP gain isn’t totally going to waste.

This is what should happen.

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

They can.

Well yes. I meant via the xp bar fill though.

MashMash.1645:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

They can.

Well yes. I meant via the xp bar fill though.

They still can.

Astralporing.1957:

MashMash.1645:

This blew up way more than I intended. I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

Raiders generally don’t want to be nice to non-raiders. Supposedly it cheapens their experience. Thus you will find some people protesting suggestions like that just on principle.

It is rather amusing how ofting the ‘elitist card’ is being drawn to completely downplay and even discredit anything raiders disagree with, are worrried about or simply argue against.
Interesting enough, I actually seem to agree with his idea. It also wouldn’t bother me in the slightest if non-raiders were able to gain shards this way. I even think that it would be fair. I am probably not a true ‘raider’.

On a serious note, never liked raids being tied to masteries in any way. That inlucdes being rewarded with mastery points or the requirement to have any specific mastery.

MashMash.1645:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

They can.

Well yes. I meant via the xp bar fill though.

They can.

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

They can.

Well yes. I meant via the xp bar fill though.

They can.

Sure. In core maps. Not in HoT ones, where the current new action is.

Astralporing.1957:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

They can.

Well yes. I meant via the xp bar fill though.

They can.

Sure. In core maps. Not in HoT ones, where the current new action is.

That is nice but then how do you explain the fact that I get spirit shards by opening chests in HoT ? And no I haven’t entered any raid instances

flog.3485:

Astralporing.1957:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

They can.

Well yes. I meant via the xp bar fill though.

They can.

Sure. In core maps. Not in HoT ones, where the current new action is.

That is nice but then how do you explain the fact that I get spirit shards by opening chests in HoT ? And no I haven’t entered any raid instances

Your post is kinda pointless since if you would be more careful with reading you would know that he comment was about the spirit shards from the xp bar not other sources.

Honestly i cannot even understand why there are even people, who think it is fine the way the mastery system is currently implemented. Heck even if all mastery tracks could be used without requirments, it would still a problematic system because you also need the mastery points and if you dont have any you cannot advance. And I know getting mastery points isnt hard. But thats not my point, my point is that if there are rewards for xp gain after level 80, they shouldnt have the requirement of completing all your mastery tracks, when said tracks also require more then just xp. Hence why i think the whole mastery system needs a repeatable track without any requirments apart from level 80.

Muchacho.2390:

flog.3485:

Astralporing.1957:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

They can.

Well yes. I meant via the xp bar fill though.

They can.

Sure. In core maps. Not in HoT ones, where the current new action is.

That is nice but then how do you explain the fact that I get spirit shards by opening chests in HoT ? And no I haven’t entered any raid instances

Your post is kinda pointless since if you would be more careful with reading you would know that he comment was about the spirit shards from the xp bar not other sources.

Honestly i cannot even understand why there are even people, who think it is fine the way the mastery system is currently implemented. Heck even if all mastery tracks could be used without requirments, it would still a problematic system because you also need the mastery points and if you dont have any you cannot advance. And I know getting mastery points isnt hard. But thats not my point, my point is that if there are rewards for xp gain after level 80, they shouldnt have the requirement of completing all your mastery tracks, when said tracks also require more then just xp. Hence why i think the whole mastery system needs a repeatable track without any requirments apart from level 80.

True I’ve taken the sentence too much out of context. But this is exactly why some people will disagree with others: some see spirit shards as a reward and others see it as another currency that you stack without really spending it. Thus it doesn’t bother to not get them at the end of a xP bar. Personally I don’t see the point of point of stacking a currency that you barely use but I guess in the end Anet should player choose if they want it or not. I would rather be on your side if spending this currency was something essential that you needed to spend on a regular basis.

Again the point is that xp progression is blocked when it doesnt need to be. Its a fundamental design flaw (im guessing oversight) when every time you kill a mob an xp reward flashes up on the screen, but then you are not actually awarded that xp, wheras someone standing next to you killing the exact same mode does.

flog.3485:

Astralporing.1957:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

They can.

Well yes. I meant via the xp bar fill though.

They can.

Sure. In core maps. Not in HoT ones, where the current new action is.

That is nice but then how do you explain the fact that I get spirit shards by opening chests in HoT ? And no I haven’t entered any raid instances

You get spirit shards in HoT from filling xp track, without being in Raid instance even once? Somehow i doubt you.

flog.3485:

But this is exactly why some people will disagree with others: some see spirit shards as a reward and others see it as another currency that you stack without really spending it. Thus it doesn’t bother to not get them at the end of a xP bar.

It may be a reason to not support the change. It’s however not a reason to oppose it.

Astralporing.1957:

flog.3485:

Astralporing.1957:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

They can.

Well yes. I meant via the xp bar fill though.

They can.

Sure. In core maps. Not in HoT ones, where the current new action is.

That is nice but then how do you explain the fact that I get spirit shards by opening chests in HoT ? And no I haven’t entered any raid instances

You get spirit shards in HoT from filling xp track, without being in Raid instance even once? Somehow i doubt you.

flog.3485:

But this is exactly why some people will disagree with others: some see spirit shards as a reward and others see it as another currency that you stack without really spending it. Thus it doesn’t bother to not get them at the end of a xP bar.

It may be a reason to not support the change. It’s however not a reason to oppose it.

Where did I talk about filling an xp track ? I said that I was getting spirit shards by opening chests such as airship cargoes in verdant brink and I also said I took your comment out of context. Clearly you were talking about spirit shards by xp bars which you are now

The fact that you can get Spirit Shards by doing other things has nothing to do with the thread. People who continue to insist that it does simply do not understand the topic at hand.

flog.3485:

Astralporing.1957:

flog.3485:

Astralporing.1957:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

Ashen.2907:

MashMash.1645:

I just thought it would be nice for non raiders to still be able to get spirit shards.

They can.

Well yes. I meant via the xp bar fill though.

They can.

Sure. In core maps. Not in HoT ones, where the current new action is.

That is nice but then how do you explain the fact that I get spirit shards by opening chests in HoT ? And no I haven’t entered any raid instances

You get spirit shards in HoT from filling xp track, without being in Raid instance even once? Somehow i doubt you.

flog.3485:

But this is exactly why some people will disagree with others: some see spirit shards as a reward and others see it as another currency that you stack without really spending it. Thus it doesn’t bother to not get them at the end of a xP bar.

It may be a reason to not support the change. It’s however not a reason to oppose it.

Where did I talk about filling an xp track ? I said that I was getting spirit shards by opening chests such as airship cargoes in verdant brink and I also said I took your comment out of context. Clearly you were talking about spirit shards by xp bars which you are now

He always was, don’t play the fool.
Topic: Non Raiders blocked from XP bar...

Djinn.9245:

The fact that you can get Spirit Shards by doing other things has nothing to do with the thread. People who continue to insist that it does simply do not understand the topic at hand.

It’s just a straw man, there’s really no argument for Anet to gate things behind exclusive content after they sold this game on the play how you want principle.
Your xp was worth something for years, then it wasn’t, and now it’s ok…. because of reasons.
Incoming “play how you want” straw mans (free legendary, free skins, etc.)

The content is not exclusive, if one has HoT he can do it, there is an easy event that will unlock the mastery track that people mentioned here multiple times, now if people aren’t willing to play through it just once it’s their own problem.

Just like if you want a legendary you play WvW for a Gift of Battle, there is no way around it.

nsleep.7839

The content is not exclusive, if one has HoT he can do it, there is an easy event that will unlock the mastery track that people mentioned here multiple times, now if people aren’t willing to play through it just once it’s their own problem.
Just like if you want a legendary you play WvW for a Gift of Battle, there is no way around it.

The content is exclusive - according to the devs statements the raids were designed with the idea to be completed only by the most dedicated / skillful / with a great desire of challenge and adventure players etc., with other words not for all players. The problem is not that the people aren’t willing to play such content, but, maybe you did not notice, to unlock the mastery you should actually win in that content. But success in the raids is not for everyone – look again at the devs statements – is only for few.

In my opinion this is not a missed details from the devs part, this is designed in this way with intention and knowing very well what this implies. What I don’t understand is how the devs considered that this can help the game ?

As a side note: Although everybody can craft a Legendary, not everybody wants (or actually is in the process of crafting) one. On the other hand, by killing a mob / gathering / doing a daily vista / completing an event in HoT everybody gains XP. But this XP counts for only a few. This is the point: If I want a Legendary I can crafty it. If I want max Mastery, I cannot. Why? Because is according to the devs will – not everybody should be able to do this. Why they implemented this ? God knows.

Cristalyan.5728:

nsleep.7839

The content is not exclusive, if one has HoT he can do it, there is an easy event that will unlock the mastery track that people mentioned here multiple times, now if people aren’t willing to play through it just once it’s their own problem.
Just like if you want a legendary you play WvW for a Gift of Battle, there is no way around it.

The content is exclusive - according to the devs statements the raids were designed with the idea to be completed only by the most dedicated / skillful / with a great desire of challenge and adventure players etc., with other words not for all players. The problem is not that the people aren’t willing to play such content, but, maybe you did not notice, to unlock the mastery you should actually win in that content. But success in the raids is not for everyone – look again at the devs statements – is only for few.

In my opinion this is not a missed details from the devs part, this is designed in this way with intention and knowing very well what this implies. What I don’t understand is how the devs considered that this can help the game ?

As a side note: Although everybody can craft a Legendary, not everybody wants (or actually is in the process of crafting) one. On the other hand, by killing a mob / gathering / doing a daily vista / completing an event in HoT everybody gains XP. But this XP counts for only a few. This is the point: If I want a Legendary I can crafty it. If I want max Mastery, I cannot. Why? Because is according to the devs will – not everybody should be able to do this. Why they implemented this ? God knows.

Originally this content was meant only for the most hardcore guilds as stated by them as you said. But this is no longer true. It didn’t take long before they got proven wrong that you didn’t need a dedicated hardcore organized guild team to complete them and eventually you could find pugs randomly searching for groups / players in the LFG that would successfully complete these raids with a high success rate.

The fact that they added a specific LFG section for raids further strengthens the fact that they acknowledged this and that they no longer hold true to their old statement.
If the requirement was actually a raid boss to get this perk, trust me, I would be here complaining here with you guys and that it shouldn’t be locked behind such content cause it’s a bit extreme.
But as I’ve said before and I’ll keep saying it again. There’s the escort event (that’s right, I don’t call it raid, cause it’s not a raid) in wing 3 (it’s the first one) which is not even a boss. It’s an easy event that most players would be able to complete if they just took the time to research / read about how it works and actually took the effort for it. And it even counts as a raid encounter since it rewards you the same way as you would beat a proper raid boss which is insane if you ask me for such an easy event.

Blackwyn.8127

Originally this content was meant only for the most hardcore guilds as stated by them as you said. But this is no longer true.
…………………………………
But as I’ve said before and I’ll keep saying it again. There’s the escort event (that’s right, I don’t call it raid, cause it’s not a raid) in wing 3 (it’s the first one) which is not even a boss. It’s an easy event that most players would be able to complete if they just took the time to research / read about how it works and actually took the effort for it.

We have the original statements of the devs of how hard the raids should be and that not all the players will be able to complete it.
Can you point to an official statement of the devs stating that this is no longer true?

Second – to complete that event you need a mastery. And, as a curse, that mastery can be obtained by successfully completing other raid parts.
“Hiring” a mesmer (or any other class with a Portal device) to portal the team is out of question here :-)) – as you noticed already this was the part I answered to a statement that “the people aren’t willing to play through that content”. I mean: “to play” and not “to cheat”.
No matter how much I may research / read about it and no matter how much effort I will invest, without that mastery I cannot complete it.

My conclusion is that by adding a raid part requiring a mastery obtainable from previous raids, the devs don’t negates their original statement. In fact they strengthened it.

Cristalyan.5728:

Blackwyn.8127

Originally this content was meant only for the most hardcore guilds as stated by them as you said. But this is no longer true.
…………………………………
But as I’ve said before and I’ll keep saying it again. There’s the escort event (that’s right, I don’t call it raid, cause it’s not a raid) in wing 3 (it’s the first one) which is not even a boss. It’s an easy event that most players would be able to complete if they just took the time to research / read about how it works and actually took the effort for it.

We have the original statements of the devs of how hard the raids should be and that not all the players will be able to complete it.
Can you point to an official statement of the devs stating that this is no longer true?

Second – to complete that event you need a mastery. And, as a curse, that mastery can be obtained by successfully completing other raid parts.
“Hiring” a mesmer (or any other class with a Portal device) to portal the team is out of question here :-)) – as you noticed already this was the part I answered to a statement that “the people aren’t willing to play through that content”. I mean: “to play” and not “to cheat”.
No matter how much I may research / read about it and no matter how much effort I will invest, without that mastery I cannot complete it.

My conclusion is that by adding a raid part requiring a mastery obtainable from previous raids, the devs don’t negates their original statement. In fact they strengthened it.

Their statement was that raids were designed for hardcore guilds only. This is the reason there wasn’t a section for raids in the LFG when it was first introduced as it never was intended to be completed by random pugs to begin with. This was proven wrong.
When they added a LFG section for raids, that’s pretty much as official as it gets that their first statement was wrong and they acknowledged that it can be completed by random pugs.

Only one mesmer needs the mastery. Whenever I don’t have anything to do, I join these raid groups, be it training, learning, exp and help them do it. And I don’t demand a single dime for it, imagine that. There’s plenty of people doing the exact same thing and there are even people that takes this further to have weekly scheduled times where they take people that has never done it and they teach them step by step on what to do.

If you ever need a mesmer and you have a group that it’s at least prepared for the event gearwise and informationwise. Feel free to send me a message and I’ll gladly help you out for free if I’m not busy (EU).

Cristalyan.5728:

nsleep.7839

The content is not exclusive, if one has HoT he can do it, there is an easy event that will unlock the mastery track that people mentioned here multiple times, now if people aren’t willing to play through it just once it’s their own problem.
Just like if you want a legendary you play WvW for a Gift of Battle, there is no way around it.

The content is exclusive - according to the devs statements the raids were designed with the idea to be completed only by the most dedicated / skillful / with a great desire of challenge and adventure players etc., with other words not for all players. The problem is not that the people aren’t willing to play such content, but, maybe you did not notice, to unlock the mastery you should actually win in that content. But success in the raids is not for everyone – look again at the devs statements – is only for few.

Not only did Anet make these statements about the GW2 Raids, but it is common knowledge that Raids are the most difficult content in all MMOs. In most MMOs Raiding is also gear gated and part of a Raiding progression. It is meant as content for only the most dedicated and skilled players.

And yet, despite being marketed towards players who were looking for highly competitive gameplay, there are a couple of encounters mentioned in this thread which don’t require as much. Those two specfically would be the escort for wing 3 and trio in wing 1.

So while it may be marketed toward a specific group of players, the ability to complete at least one encounter to unlock the raid mastery line is not inaccessible to all players.

Honestly i cannot understand this, why do players defend such a problematic system.

Even if it was easy to unlocky the raid masteries, why is it bad to simply add a repeatable mastery track that works everywhere and doesnt have any requirments just to ensure that xp doesnt go to waste no matter what the reason is for not completing the normal mastery tracks (be it for a lack of mastery points or a lack of raid/fractals/whatever unlocks).

Heck i dont even think implementing such a track would be hard since WvW/spvp already has such tracks, so why cant pve have it?