Guild Wars 2

Muchacho.2390:

Honestly i cannot understand this, why do players defend such a problematic system.

Even if it was easy to unlocky the raid masteries, why is it bad to simply add a repeatable mastery track that works everywhere and doesnt have any requirments just to ensure that xp doesnt go to waste no matter what the reason is for not completing the normal mastery tracks (be it for a lack of mastery points or a lack of raid/fractals/whatever unlocks).

Heck i dont even think implementing such a track would be hard since WvW/spvp already has such tracks, so why cant pve have it?

Takes developer time to develop. Mastery tracks currently do not award anything. It was clearly intended that the raid mastery line was to only be obtainable by completing one of the raid encounters. It was clearly intended that one would need to complete all Maguuma masteries to enable the ability to get spirit shards from leveling. Many players went and completed one of the raid encounters to unlock that mastery line. There’s really no reason that’s been given against what was designed other than people who don’t want to do it but feel they’re entitled to get that anyway.

Ayrilana.1396:

Muchacho.2390:

Honestly i cannot understand this, why do players defend such a problematic system.

Even if it was easy to unlocky the raid masteries, why is it bad to simply add a repeatable mastery track that works everywhere and doesnt have any requirments just to ensure that xp doesnt go to waste no matter what the reason is for not completing the normal mastery tracks (be it for a lack of mastery points or a lack of raid/fractals/whatever unlocks).

Heck i dont even think implementing such a track would be hard since WvW/spvp already has such tracks, so why cant pve have it?

Takes developer time to develop. Mastery tracks currently do not award anything. It was clearly intended that the raid mastery line was to only be obtainable by completing one of the raid encounters. It was clearly intended that one would need to complete all Maguuma masteries to enable the ability to get spirit shards from leveling. Many players went and completed one of the raid encounters to unlock that mastery line. There’s really no reason that’s been given against what was designed other than people who don’t want to do it but feel they’re entitled to get that anyway.

Well i wouldnt really call it entitled, its just kitten spirit shards. Its not like they are hard to get though other means. Not to mention that before HoT and the mastery system you always got them (or their predecessors) though xp. So technically it more like wanting something back, you previously had.

But that not really my point anyway. Heck my problem isnt even that you need raids to unlock certain masteries. My problem (and the reason why i think the whole system is problematic) is that you can get into situations where your xp doesnt to anything. This can also happen because you dont have enough mastery points so technically even raiders are affected by it.

Ayrilana.1396:

And yet, despite being marketed towards players who were looking for highly competitive gameplay, there are a couple of encounters mentioned in this thread which don’t require as much. Those two specfically would be the escort for wing 3 and trio in wing 1.

Notice how design for both of them requires finishing other, harder encounters first (Escort needing a raid mastery, trio being a second encounter in its wing).

Ayrilana.1396:

So while it may be marketed toward a specific group of players, the ability to complete at least one encounter to unlock the raid mastery line is not inaccessible to all players.

See above.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

And yet, despite being marketed towards players who were looking for highly competitive gameplay, there are a couple of encounters mentioned in this thread which don’t require as much. Those two specfically would be the escort for wing 3 and trio in wing 1.

Notice how design for both of them requires finishing other, harder encounters first (Escort needing a raid mastery, trio being a second encounter in its wing).

Ayrilana.1396:

So while it may be marketed toward a specific group of players, the ability to complete at least one encounter to unlock the raid mastery line is not inaccessible to all players.

See above.

People have reported that you don’t need raid mastery for the 3rd one as you can get around the cave. That said, you only need 3 people with the mastery at most, or just one that has a Mesmer, if you do go through the cave.

For trio, you can always find someone willing to open it for the group.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Obtena.7952:

DeWolfe.2174:

Ayrilana.1396:

DeWolfe.2174:

I’m just reading this topic for the first time. No, completing a Raid should not be a requirement to unlock. I have to admit, having a dead XP bar that sits there lifeless has been disturbing to me. Though I have to say, I do like not having that screamingly blindingly annoying yellow and white color of the bar being black. Much better experience and the Dev’s should really start adding ways to mute the Hud or make a transparency slider for it.

The easiest option could be to make a repeatable Spirit Shard Mastery line. Make it the default line that runs and the game reverts to, when no other Masteries are toggled on.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Its illogical to gate the base method of character progression. Anyone who knows anything about the psychology of games knows that games started giving XP because players like to see progression.

Spirit shards are a currency. They offer no form of player progression.

Wealth is progression…….

Not really. Most definitely not character progression. Spirit shards are rewards/currency. Otherwise we can argue for increasing drop rates for precursors as it improves character progression. Yeah… no.

Gearing up a character and obtaining appearance item’s is certainly most of the progression in game. Spirit Shards can be converted to gold and other items. Spirit Shards are also required for our “Legendary Journeys” which is absolutely a form of progression. So… yes really.

Even if that is the case … you aren’t locked out of earning spirit shards anyways, so the argument that shards locked behind raid mastery affects progression is nonsense to begin with.

You keep building your straw man. The suggestion was to have a repeatable mastery track that happens to award shards, so that anyone who wanted not to “waste” XP can use that track. What’s locked is the ability to have the XP do something, not access to shards.

No strawman .. the thread is about shards … i DID read the first post. If people are QQIng they don’t get something for their XP bars, I got a simpler solution; remove the bar from the screen once it’s not needed. Then, people won’t invent reasons to deserve something.

Obtena.7952:

No strawman .. the thread is about shards … i DID read the first post. If people are QQIng they don’t get something for their XP bars, I got a simpler solution; remove the bar from the screen once it’s not needed. Then, people won’t invent reasons to deserve something.

If you have read the thread then you’d have known that it has been said many times already that the previous situation (when you didn’t get anything for levelling), while not satisfactory for many reasons, was still at least fair (everyone was treated equally), and thus better than the current one.

That’s just one of many considerations that need to be made. Lucky for everyone, A few people hear don’t ignore the fact that this is additional work for devs … with little benefit. If you have already read the thread, you would have known that as well, said many times. Funny how people like to ignore many of the things that matter. Makes it all so easy when you do that doesn’kitten

Simply put … the benefit is already there and it is implemented fairly; everyone has access to raids. Here is the irony … people proposing alternate ‘solutions’ to get the same additional shard rewards as the people that have done the mastery unlock , claiming it’s being done for fairness. In fact, that’s completely unfair. I guess that’s the way people have been brought up … everyone gets a participation ‘reward’.

Cristalyan.5728:

We have the original statements of the devs of how hard the raids should be and that not all the players will be able to complete it.
Can you point to an official statement of the devs stating that this is no longer true?

You have a dev statement to support you. He has actual dev actions to support him. Anet has demonstrated time and again that words are meaningless. Judge by their actions. They have chosen for the raid to NOT be what they originally spoke of just as Anet took plenty of other actions that contradicted their stated intentions.

Ashen.2907:

Cristalyan.5728:

We have the original statements of the devs of how hard the raids should be and that not all the players will be able to complete it.
Can you point to an official statement of the devs stating that this is no longer true?

You have a dev statement to support you. He has actual dev actions to support him. Anet has demonstrated time and again that words are meaningless. Judge by their actions. They have chosen for the raid to NOT be what they originally spoke of just as Anet took plenty of other actions that contradicted their stated intentions.

2 thumbs up and a dozen likes. Anet described perfectly.

Ashen.2907:

Cristalyan.5728:

We have the original statements of the devs of how hard the raids should be and that not all the players will be able to complete it.
Can you point to an official statement of the devs stating that this is no longer true?

You have a dev statement to support you. He has actual dev actions to support him. Anet has demonstrated time and again that words are meaningless. Judge by their actions. They have chosen for the raid to NOT be what they originally spoke of just as Anet took plenty of other actions that contradicted their stated intentions.

So you’re saying that players who don’t want to Raid and don’t believe they can complete a Raid because Anet said Raids are the most difficult content for dedicated Raiders should somehow decide to put up a LFG for a Raid so they can open the Mastery? And you believe that such a PUG group would be successful?

And you think it is reasonable to expect this?

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

Cristalyan.5728:

We have the original statements of the devs of how hard the raids should be and that not all the players will be able to complete it.
Can you point to an official statement of the devs stating that this is no longer true?

You have a dev statement to support you. He has actual dev actions to support him. Anet has demonstrated time and again that words are meaningless. Judge by their actions. They have chosen for the raid to NOT be what they originally spoke of just as Anet took plenty of other actions that contradicted their stated intentions.

So you’re saying that players who don’t want to Raid and don’t believe they can complete a Raid because Anet said Raids are the most difficult content for dedicated Raiders should somehow decide to put up a LFG for a Raid so they can open the Mastery? And you believe that such a PUG group would be successful?

And you think it is reasonable to expect this?

Except at least two of the encounters that unlock the raid mastery line are not that difficult and parallel that of perhaps the Arah dungeon.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

Cristalyan.5728:

We have the original statements of the devs of how hard the raids should be and that not all the players will be able to complete it.
Can you point to an official statement of the devs stating that this is no longer true?

You have a dev statement to support you. He has actual dev actions to support him. Anet has demonstrated time and again that words are meaningless. Judge by their actions. They have chosen for the raid to NOT be what they originally spoke of just as Anet took plenty of other actions that contradicted their stated intentions.

So you’re saying that players who don’t want to Raid and don’t believe they can complete a Raid because Anet said Raids are the most difficult content for dedicated Raiders should somehow decide to put up a LFG for a Raid so they can open the Mastery? And you believe that such a PUG group would be successful?

And you think it is reasonable to expect this?

Except at least two of the encounters that unlock the raid mastery line are not that difficult and parallel that of perhaps the Arah dungeon.

Exactly. They are essentially glorified dynamic events.

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

Cristalyan.5728:

We have the original statements of the devs of how hard the raids should be and that not all the players will be able to complete it.
Can you point to an official statement of the devs stating that this is no longer true?

You have a dev statement to support you. He has actual dev actions to support him. Anet has demonstrated time and again that words are meaningless. Judge by their actions. They have chosen for the raid to NOT be what they originally spoke of just as Anet took plenty of other actions that contradicted their stated intentions.

So you’re saying that players who don’t want to Raid and don’t believe they can complete a Raid because Anet said Raids are the most difficult content for dedicated Raiders should somehow decide to put up a LFG for a Raid so they can open the Mastery? And you believe that such a PUG group would be successful?

And you think it is reasonable to expect this?

I said nothing of the sort.

sorudo.9054:

TexZero.7910:

sorudo.9054:

it shows they never even listened to ppl complaining about dungeons and made the exact same mistake, elite only, screw the casuals.

I’m sorry but what ?

If you couldn’t do dungeons, that had nothing to do with the company and everything to do with the player. There was nothing hard or elite about dungeons.

ok, so why can’t i ever complete even one while all the other things like PS, LS, open world for both core and HoT are easy to me….

Cause you didn’t group with people who knew how or take the time to learn how. Most dungeons are relatively easy.

Hey, at least they gave you the things you asked for to have dungeons made properly … you’re just going to have to remember you’re playing an MMO to do it.

You do still earn them through xp. It’s just not as glamorous as it was because of masteries. You’ll see the spirit shards go into your loot side when you get one.

They explained this before and after heart of thorns launched people.

I still earn them and I haven’t finished my masteries

Honestly, Mastery Points gated behind raids are no reason to complain. I reached lvl 165 1 week ago, what did i do? organised within my guild a group of 10 people (6 didn’t have Raids unlocked), we watched a 10 minutes video on how to do the scort mission and we cleared it first try in less than 20 minutes. In total, i think i have spent around 2 hours organising and asking people around if they’d like to join. Easy.
Just step up and chase whatever your goal is.

“If you really want to do something, you’ll find a way. If you don’t, you’ll find an excuse.”

Biggest problem with GW2 community is that they think everything should be handed to them for free…

dodgerrule.8739:

You do still earn them through xp. It’s just not as glamorous as it was because of masteries. You’ll see the spirit shards go into your loot side when you get one.

They explained this before and after heart of thorns launched people.

Sure about this one?

If so the whole tread is pointless.

Muchacho.2390:

dodgerrule.8739:

You do still earn them through xp. It’s just not as glamorous as it was because of masteries. You’ll see the spirit shards go into your loot side when you get one.

They explained this before and after heart of thorns launched people.

Sure about this one?

If so the whole tread is pointless.

I’m pretty sure he is mixing it up with getting spirit shards as direct drops from mobs (which do happen on occasions).

Astralporing.1957:

Muchacho.2390:

dodgerrule.8739:

You do still earn them through xp. It’s just not as glamorous as it was because of masteries. You’ll see the spirit shards go into your loot side when you get one.

They explained this before and after heart of thorns launched people.

Sure about this one?

If so the whole tread is pointless.

I’m pretty sure he is mixing it up with getting spirit shards as direct drops from mobs (which do happen on occasions).

It’s possible to earn shards via XP without completing ALL masteries, by completing a Masteries in either Tyria or HoM but not the other, and gaining XP in the completed region. If that’s what was meant, then the post is at best out of touch with the thread. If not, then the post is incorrect.

Well right now the Lab is the best place to earn XP. If you need spirit shard then I suggest you go there. I estimate that with a decent sized group to scale the events up, you can maybe make about 30 spirit shards an hour with a theoretical 60 but that would be pushing it. I have gain an entire level within a minute but it was reliant on a door event.

While Anet will likely not reverse their decision on the HoT side, players can use this as a temporary way to alleviate their issue if they need the shards.

I’m pretty sure the developers would be fine with players getting spirit shards when they are stuck behind the raid Masteries. I know alot of people who would be glad if its not reliant on that. Some are even hoarding daily chests that give XP so they can max the masteries even faster if they ever get past a raid.

I’m thinking that if people like the illusion that the experience is going somewhere useful rather than going nowhere with barely any real benefit and if that makes them enjoy playing the game more, then why not for everyone.

It’s not enough for a substantial reward, it’s not in any way prestigious, so there’s no reason to lock this thing behind ANYthing. (other than possible systemdesign limitations ofcourse, but no one here is qualified to make any substantial statements on that)

TBH, I’d be happy if XP wrap-around rewarded anything at all, no matter how paltry. One AP? One point of progress towards a title with a crazy-high target?
One copper? A ticket that says “I earned one million XP and all I got was this lousy ticket”?

Actually, just making the bar flash and go “ping” each time would make me happy. In GW1 you got a skill point each time. After a while you had nothing to spend the points on, but it was still nice to get one.

You still get spirit shards at the normal rate this has not changed. In fact the developers stated this as people were worried about the mastery system interfering with legendary production. You still get the spirit shards it just goes into your currency.

dodgerrule.8739:

You still get spirit shards at the normal rate this has not changed.

Not true,

• Everyone gets shards in the ways that replaced the original post-80 level tick skill point.
• Completionists get additional shards via the post-80 level tick.

It’s not the shards, it’s the inequity which did not exist before.