Guild Wars 2

In the traditional MMO every single random mob in the open world takes everything on your skill bar to kill it. This is extremely boring going from PvE enemy to PvE enemy and it is why I stay away from the traditional mmo.

When Anet announced that they want players having to think about using your whole skill bar to kill any enemy in HoT I was a little worried and still am.

I believe there should be varying difficulties of mobs. The normal mobs right now that are not elite, not veterans, or champions are fine. They should not take more than 10 seconds to kill. If we have to use all of our skill bar that means we have to wait in between mobs for cooldowns.

The only enemy NPCs that should have a makeover on difficulty are veteran to champion level mobs. Veterans should be able to be soloed by utilizing dodges and various hindering abilities. Elite should be able to be taken down by 2 players. Champions should take at least 3 or 2 well skilled players.

If I have to use every skill on my bar to kill say a normal non-veteran mordremoth denizen, deer or boar in the HoT zone I will be bored very quickly. This kind of repetitiveness will kill Guild Wars.

I don’t understand… you’re saying that you’d rather mobs can be killed by autoattacking (which is already very much possible) because having to use your entire set of skills is boring? But… that’s the opposite of boring?
And I don’t think the challenge aspect refers to normal, non-special mobs, just to the extra-freaky new stuff. And even if it were, I wouldn’t mind that much, it would make the zones very different from what we know from basegame.

Besides, cooldowns aren’t that long, unless you mean elite, and that’s just whining.

Which MMO’s would you be referring to?

What makes said MMO’s defined as “standard”?

In my experience in other MMOs, generally speaking, same level mobs dies easily. It is only when you fight mobs above your level where you start taking everything on your skill bar.

I disagree with most of what you said. I can train a monkey to play 95% of the PvE. Why would I want to continue such a dull pattern?

I much prefer every square inch of territory being quit difficult when solo. Making grouping much more valuable.

If they made combat a bit more like NWO I think it would be fine actually because what we hae there is the ability to make a diverse set of choices even if your class is usually used for a specific set of goals.

The autoattack thing not so much unless he’s talking about adding a new improved AI to the ranger and necro pets which they are in very dire need because the pets in this game are just outright stupid in many cases and don’t really respond well. The first attack on you should instantly aggro them, they should immediately change enemies on the next two attacks of which those that did the higher amount of damage should be what it responds to, and then after that it should watch what the player is attacking until the player is hit by something again, the pets attacks should be buffed as well. I’d love to see a beastmaster option for PVE.

combat diversity is coming though, just wait I have a feeling it’s going to be a whole new game when it comes to combat.

Can’t say I share your concern. Perhaps pressing one button is engaging to you, but I think for the majority of people, they yearn for something a little more engaging and making encounters that require more than just #1 is a reasonable and sensible way to do that.

I trust that based on what we have seen so far, Anet will not create a situation where we kill mobs so fast, that the tools we need to progress in HoT will be on perpetual cooldown and we have to wait around. That would be rather stupid.

Red Queen.7915:

I don’t understand… you’re saying that you’d rather mobs can be killed by autoattacking (which is already very much possible) because having to use your entire set of skills is boring? But… that’s the opposite of boring?
And I don’t think the challenge aspect refers to normal, non-special mobs, just to the extra-freaky new stuff. And even if it were, I wouldn’t mind that much, it would make the zones very different from what we know from basegame.

Besides, cooldowns aren’t that long, unless you mean elite, and that’s just whining.

Its actually not the opposite of boring if you have to do that for every single mob you encounter in the zone. 10 mordremoth hounds in front of you , each require you to 1v1 them one after another because you have to use your whole skill bar to kill one. That’s boring.

There has to be varying levels of difficulty and repetitiveness to keep the game fresh and if every mob requires you to do the same thing then it will be very boring. Just saying.

I know that all normal mobs in the game right now can be auto-attacked to death when you are level 80. That’s perfect IMO. Normal mobs should stay the same. Only Veterans up to champions should get a rework.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

If we have to use all of our skill bar that means we have to wait in between mobs for cooldowns.

You know I was inclined to disagree with you until I hit this. I think you might be right.

As an on and off player, I was actually quite encouraged when I went into one of the new zones and found much tougher mobs. Events would fail if I tried to solo them. I couldn’t easily solo every mob there. It was refreshing.

But GW2’s current combat design for most professions is just to more-or-less hit everything as it comes off cooldown, maybe keeping a few up your sleeve for emergencies. Abilities with cds longer than a single fight takes fall into that category for me. With these changes…

Since I intend to play revenant and forget every other profession exists the moment HoT launches this won’t actually be a problem for me. But I’ll feel sorry for other profs if the OP’s fears are made real.

coglin.1867:

Which MMO’s would you be referring to?

What makes said MMO’s defined as “standard”?

In my experience in other MMOs, generally speaking, same level mobs dies easily. It is only when you fight mobs above your level where you start taking everything on your skill bar.

I disagree with most of what you said. I can train a monkey to play 95% of the PvE. Why would I want to continue such a dull pattern?

I much prefer every square inch of territory being quit difficult when solo. Making grouping much more valuable.

Archeage, Rift, Aion, TSW. Maybe you should play those games passed level 20 and you will see what I mean.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

coglin.1867:

Which MMO’s would you be referring to?

What makes said MMO’s defined as “standard”?

In my experience in other MMOs, generally speaking, same level mobs dies easily. It is only when you fight mobs above your level where you start taking everything on your skill bar.

I disagree with most of what you said. I can train a monkey to play 95% of the PvE. Why would I want to continue such a dull pattern?

I much prefer every square inch of territory being quit difficult when solo. Making grouping much more valuable.

Archeage, Rift, Aion, TSW. Maybe you should play those games passed level 20 and you will see what I mean.

I have, and you are incorrect. The average trash mob in those games are not particularly difficult.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Red Queen.7915:

I don’t understand… you’re saying that you’d rather mobs can be killed by autoattacking (which is already very much possible) because having to use your entire set of skills is boring? But… that’s the opposite of boring?
And I don’t think the challenge aspect refers to normal, non-special mobs, just to the extra-freaky new stuff. And even if it were, I wouldn’t mind that much, it would make the zones very different from what we know from basegame.

Besides, cooldowns aren’t that long, unless you mean elite, and that’s just whining.

Its actually not the opposite of boring if you have to do that for every single mob you encounter in the zone. 10 mordremoth hounds in front of you , each require you to 1v1 them one after another because you have to use your whole skill bar to kill one. That’s boring.

There has to be varying levels of difficulty and repetitiveness to keep the game fresh and if every mob requires you to do the same thing then it will be very boring. Just saying.

I know that all normal mobs in the game right now can be auto-attacked to death when you are level 80. That’s perfect IMO. Normal mobs should stay the same. Only Veterans up to champions should get a rework.

You appear to be confusing objective opinion with subjective fact.

Just because you feel something is or is not fun, does not allow you to deem it fact.

OP has some weird definitions of “fun” lol.

It isn’t like they are going to have you utilize the entire skill bar the exact same way as you seem to be implying, instead, depending on the enemy and circumstances you will utilize that bar in different ways (saving your pull for defiance bar vs positioning, taking a reflect utility vs condi cleanse). The majority of players aren’t going to find mindlessly pressing 1 more fun than actually being immersed in the fight. However, they may find it more frustrating and less rewarding. That said, I would much rather prefer removing the current <spam 1> combat style.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

When Anet announced that they want players having to think about using your whole skill bar to kill any enemy in HoT I was a little worried and still am.

That doesn’t mean you’re going to have to use your whole skill bar. It simply means that they want you to put in the effort, as in don’t just casually stand there and auto attack or spam 1-5 on cooldown. If you’re good enough, I doubt you’ll ever need more than dodge and auto attack.

Different weapon skills have different purposes. Take a warrior’s greatsword for example. Instead of using whirlwind on cooldown, use it as another way to dodge. Instead of using rush to close in, use it to move away. Think about the skills and weapon sets your using and use them based on the situation. Maybe you’ll now want to carry a defensive set in your second slot. The game has always been like this, but most people would rather put in the least effort – if the content is too challenging, simply complain or zerg it.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

In the traditional MMO every single random mob in the open world takes everything on your skill bar to kill it.

In most other MMOs, I remember having at the very least 20 skills. A majority of the time, only 5 of them were actually used.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

coglin.1867:

Which MMO’s would you be referring to?

What makes said MMO’s defined as “standard”?

In my experience in other MMOs, generally speaking, same level mobs dies easily. It is only when you fight mobs above your level where you start taking everything on your skill bar.

I disagree with most of what you said. I can train a monkey to play 95% of the PvE. Why would I want to continue such a dull pattern?

I much prefer every square inch of territory being quit difficult when solo. Making grouping much more valuable.

Archeage, Rift, Aion, TSW. Maybe you should play those games passed level 20 and you will see what I mean.

I have played rift beyond 20, actually to max, and your fear is really unfounded. The class that has the most abilities currently in game are else since they swap between specs. So that’s a total of 25 for one profession, could long CDs on the right side. I could be wrong and it could be engis though with kits.

You are trying to say gw2 is going to get as bad as those games where you need 4 different sets of task bars to have all your skins on? Uh no. No its not. At most you are going to have 10-14 buttons to click at a time. That’s it. Anet wants you to do more than press 1 to win, which I’m fine with.

As Healix said, this doesn’t mean “use every button on your skill bar at least once per mob.” It means “don’t ignore the rest of your skill bar because just one skill will mow down the mob, use the situationally appropriate skills even if they’re way over in your utilities.”

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

In the traditional MMO every single random mob in the open world takes everything on your skill bar to kill it. This is extremely boring going from PvE enemy to PvE enemy and it is why I stay away from the traditional mmo.

When Anet announced that they want players having to think about using your whole skill bar to kill any enemy in HoT I was a little worried and still am.

I believe there should be varying difficulties of mobs. The normal mobs right now that are not elite, not veterans, or champions are fine. They should not take more than 10 seconds to kill. If we have to use all of our skill bar that means we have to wait in between mobs for cooldowns.

The only enemy NPCs that should have a makeover on difficulty are veteran to champion level mobs. Veterans should be able to be soloed by utilizing dodges and various hindering abilities. Elite should be able to be taken down by 2 players. Champions should take at least 3 or 2 well skilled players.

If I have to use every skill on my bar to kill say a normal non-veteran mordremoth denizen, deer or boar in the HoT zone I will be bored very quickly. This kind of repetitiveness will kill Guild Wars.

I’m calling BS on all of this. As it is I can solo champions with ease. The game cannot be any easier. The more challenges the better. Since our character will theoretically progress in HoT I’d half expect the enemies too progress as well.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Red Queen.7915:

I don’t understand… you’re saying that you’d rather mobs can be killed by autoattacking (which is already very much possible) because having to use your entire set of skills is boring? But… that’s the opposite of boring?
And I don’t think the challenge aspect refers to normal, non-special mobs, just to the extra-freaky new stuff. And even if it were, I wouldn’t mind that much, it would make the zones very different from what we know from basegame.

Besides, cooldowns aren’t that long, unless you mean elite, and that’s just whining.

Its actually not the opposite of boring if you have to do that for every single mob you encounter in the zone. 10 mordremoth hounds in front of you , each require you to 1v1 them one after another because you have to use your whole skill bar to kill one. That’s boring.

There has to be varying levels of difficulty and repetitiveness to keep the game fresh and if every mob requires you to do the same thing then it will be very boring. Just saying.

I know that all normal mobs in the game right now can be auto-attacked to death when you are level 80. That’s perfect IMO. Normal mobs should stay the same. Only Veterans up to champions should get a rework.

Not entirely sure what you’re doing 1v1ing wolves. I attack whole mobs of mordrem on my sinsiter power/conditionn necro and burn the lot of them down with condition bombs and melee attacks or death shroud. Short of getting cross charged by teragriffs none of the mobs in their are that hard provided you’re prepared. Taking on whole hordes of mordrem is more interesting than the mobs in any other map. You have to use your whole skill bar and not just on CD. I have to pick my position and time the epidemic bombs to get maximum impact. It’s very satisfying unleashing 25 stacks of bleed on 5 targets, watching the blizzard of ticks exploding, not to mention all the conditions from Signet of spite and blood is power.

You pick your fun way to play and I’ll do mine, thank you very much

yeah, because autoattacking things to death in 3 seconds repetitively is not repetitive at all. And actually, “standard” MMORPG don´t work the way you describe. Bad players struggle with standard mobs, good ones just hack through like everyone does in this paradise of the unskilled here :P

I think the op is refering to the wildstar effect. I don’t know if any of you guys played it, but the combat there did require you to be more “alert” than the usual mmo. It was great, and fun. But only for the first hour or so. After that, the constant need to aim your abilities, to monitor your procs, to dodge out of the way made it very hard to enjoy the game after a long day at work. You came home tired, wanted to grind a bit to unwind and relax, but no cigar.

The same thing could easily happen to gw2 if every single mob requires your full “presence” to beat. You wouldn’t be able to just log in, join an event and unwind. I think that’s what the op means.

However, in all honesty, I wouldn’t worry so much. The game is very casual friendly, and I suspect that what challenging is for anet and gw2 would be much more relaxed and casual than what other games offer. Which is one of the many reasons many folk still play it. My 2c

Caeledh.5437:

But GW2’s current combat design for most professions is just to more-or-less hit everything as it comes off cooldown, maybe keeping a few up your sleeve for emergencies.

That’s really sad if you play that way.

My fear is that the expansion will go the way that Star Trek Online did. Increasing difficulty to the point where pugs are more usually a liability and make your mission fail as well as making the whole spec thing grindy as hell.

A harder game would likely make the whole toxic/elitist thing a lot worse while driving away a lot of people.

What’s so bad about something more challenging? Doesn’t mean PUGs can’t do it, or that elitists will take over the game. The new zones will be level 80, after all, so why would anyone expect them to be a walk in the park in the first place?

So, people want endgame content, but when endgame content is what they get, it’s suddenly “too hard”. It’s impossible to please everyone, someone will always rage about it and possibly quit, and it’s just as likely people will do that when there’s nothing more to do but autoattack mobs in a new, pretty zone as when the new zones and content are harder to master than vanilla zones and content.

I, for one, prefer the latter option. If I want to play with my eyes closed, I can stick to the starter zones, or go play another game altogether. GW2 is very casual friendly as it is, but making everything easy enough to master without any practice or challenge whatsoever will alienate lots of players, too. This game is rather good at keeping a balance between what its offering to casuals and to more invested gamers.

At end game if the game is too easy it gets boring, so having to try a few times to complete a difficult event for example, in my opinion, makes the game a lot more interesting. Also the more skills used the better in my opinion I am much looking forward to the higher difficulty of Heart of Thorns. I understand your point though, the game needs to have a balance of difficulty and fun. I think its got it right at the moment though

PzTnT.7198:

My fear is that the expansion will go the way that Star Trek Online did. Increasing difficulty to the point where pugs are more usually a liability and make your mission fail as well as making the whole spec thing grindy as hell.

A harder game would likely make the whole toxic/elitist thing a lot worse while driving away a lot of people.

Mordrems are fine in my humble opinion as open world mobs. They require you to stay focused on the fight and to use more than just your AA to defeat them.

For instanced content however, the difficulty could scale up a bit.

Like others have pointed out this is not so much about hey dont forget to use that skill over there or the mob will not die and more a case of the encounter is difficult enough that thinking about how to do the most amount of damage is not good enough.

You can experience this right now too if you want. Just play solo and over aggro a lot of stuff. if you try to dps your way out you’ll die but if you put in some control and self support you may actually walk away a lake of corpses.

It all goes back to the age old argument of DPS is king…. DPS is king so long as you can kill whatever you’re fighting before it can kill you. When you get over that balance it means you need to hinder its ability to damage you enough so that you can keep yourself enough to do enough damage so you can be able to kill it. In practical terms that means instead of using the 2 – 3 skills that do most damage you will need to use other skills that increase your survivability, skills that blind, interrupt, block, push back, slow down, daze etc…

What they name challenging is mostly annoying to me.

I disagree with OP, imo autoattacking mobs to death it’s tremendously boring, I’d like normal mobs to force me to fight for my life. I like it harder, the combat system allows for great action and its wasted by autoattacking.

The system they gave us information about (as little as it was) is a definite improvement over the current one. Is it a big improvement or a small improvement..time will tell…but it IS an improvement.