Guild Wars 2

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind it. Now all we need is content where it will be required to use one (except WvW to an extent), maybe the AI rework will change things in dungeons and events so a healer will be important. We’ll see.

As you stated we have to see. Will future content require or only favor builds like Ventari? Will all classes get a healing build like Ventari – same efficiency but with a class-specific flair?

If all classes can fill all roles with the same efficiency – it could be the goal to be reached with specialisations – we will not have a traditional Holy Trinity. If the specific roles are not mandatory (except of speed clearer) to finish content it will open up more diversity in play styles if you want it.

And then there is taunt, the ultimate tank-tool…
And the new break-bars, making cc-spammers viable options in boss-fights…

Smells like raids.
C’mon a-net, it this point we all know that we’re getting instanced content for 10 players or more. Just announce it already.

@Belenwyn:
Have you looked into the canges to engineers inventions and explosives line?

Our bomb-on-dodge will get a trait to become a blast-finisher.
Our elite kit (mortar) potentially has blast-finisher as auto-attacks. (and the mortar itself already comes with a healing field)
In inventions we get a trait that allows ALL our blast-finishers to heal allies. (master in inventions)
We will clear 1 condi by default when using a healing skill (+the 2 from healing turret itself). (minor in inventions)
We will stack regen (not that we didn’t already had perma-regen) for each cleared condi on us and allies, (minor in inventions)
and here comes the overkill:
We get a trait that heals allies for a fixed percentage of ALL heals we receive. (grandmaster in inventions)

Run this with sigils of water & benevolence + monk runes in cleric or settlers gear and you have one hell of of a healing powerhouse…

Wouldn’t surprise me if they tweak the numbers to make bloodmagic necros a thing as well, since they already announced the implementation of vampiric aura anyways.

While I’m up for the trinity I don’t want GW2 to break word on its promise of people being forced into roles just to complete content. If I can clear content as a tank , healer then I should do able to do it in a all DPS group to as well.

Nah, if Ventari-Leg starts outputting the sort of healing that would allow players to mindless stand around face rolling keys while a Champion is hitting them in the face they’ll probably nerf it.

@ Arantheal

It could be raids or better GW2-like raids. It could be group content where multiple tasks are active during boss encounters and fights with mob groups..

Mobs will get taunts too. I hope we will see mobs in different roles: robust “tanks” with taunts, powerful healer, nasty controllers or boon distributors etc.

Yes, there are strong signs that at least several classes can heal with the same effectiveness in HoT. After the release of a few more elite specialisation each class can fill each possible role. No need to search for a certain class to fill a certain role. You can do it by yourself.

Belenwyn.8674:

If all classes can fill all roles with the same efficiency – it could be the goal to be reached with specialisations – we will not have a traditional Holy Trinity.

You’re right. We’ll have an untraditional, unique holy trinity that not only fulfills GW2’s goal of “all classes = any playstyle” , but also fulfills the hopes of individuals who want to see this system in play while still having a system that promotes roles.

If the specializations cause every profession to go this route, I’m all for it.

piano man.1672:

Belenwyn.8674:

If all classes can fill all roles with the same efficiency – it could be the goal to be reached with specialisations – we will not have a traditional Holy Trinity.

You’re right. We’ll have an untraditional, unique holy trinity that not only fulfills GW2’s goal of “all classes = any playstyle” , but also fulfills the hopes of individuals who want to see this system in play while still having a system that promotes roles.

If the specializations cause every profession to go this route, I’m all for it.

I’d love to see the day where any profession can fulfill any role.

Amen to that!

Although I’m a bit worried that revenant will be the only class to truly support all roles this well. I have no interest whatsoever into the revenant but I happen to love playing tanky characters in groups so I might be forced to play a rev. Revenants get to be tanky AND get a taunt; not even guards get that.

Bearhugger.4326:

piano man.1672:

Belenwyn.8674:

If all classes can fill all roles with the same efficiency – it could be the goal to be reached with specialisations – we will not have a traditional Holy Trinity.

You’re right. We’ll have an untraditional, unique holy trinity that not only fulfills GW2’s goal of “all classes = any playstyle” , but also fulfills the hopes of individuals who want to see this system in play while still having a system that promotes roles.

If the specializations cause every profession to go this route, I’m all for it.

I’d love to see the day where any profession can fulfill any role.

Amen to that!

Although I’m a bit worried that revenant will be the only class to truly support all roles this well. I have no interest whatsoever into the revenant but I happen to love playing tanky characters in groups so I might be forced to play a rev. Revenants get to be tanky AND get a taunt; not even guards get that.

I Don’t see revs being the only class that will be able to take advantage of the “all roles, Any class” idea, taunt is just one of many tools that can be used, other forms of cc could be a big player too.

Regardless though. I’m excited to see if a gw2 spin-off of the holy trinity will be coming to the meta, I’ve been waiting for that sense launch!

I am having a hard time seeing this as a step closer to a dedicated healing role.

People forget that this same thing was being said about elements talists and engineers when the game first came out.

meeflak.9714:

Bearhugger.4326:

piano man.1672:

Belenwyn.8674:

If all classes can fill all roles with the same efficiency – it could be the goal to be reached with specialisations – we will not have a traditional Holy Trinity.

You’re right. We’ll have an untraditional, unique holy trinity that not only fulfills GW2’s goal of “all classes = any playstyle” , but also fulfills the hopes of individuals who want to see this system in play while still having a system that promotes roles.

If the specializations cause every profession to go this route, I’m all for it.

I’d love to see the day where any profession can fulfill any role.

Amen to that!

Although I’m a bit worried that revenant will be the only class to truly support all roles this well. I have no interest whatsoever into the revenant but I happen to love playing tanky characters in groups so I might be forced to play a rev. Revenants get to be tanky AND get a taunt; not even guards get that.

I Don’t see revs being the only class that will be able to take advantage of the “all roles, Any class” idea, taunt is just one of many tools that can be used, other forms of cc could be a big player too.

Regardless though. I’m excited to see if a gw2 spin-off of the holy trinity will be coming to the meta, I’ve been waiting for that sense launch!

I’m also very excited to see GW2’s spin-off of the holy trinity!

I also don’t think Revs will be the only profession that will be able to take advantage of this idea, but I do see them having a lot of build diversity from the get-go. We haven’t even seen its Specialization yet, and already they can go Support (Vent), DPS (Mallyx), and Tank(Jalis) no problem.

I think currently, Revenant has the most diversity in roles but not necessarily in builds (In the sense that, if I’m running Support I am most likely running a Salvation Revenant with Staff and Ventari.)

Specializations are meant to open up new roles and build diversity for every profession, so hopefully we see that each professions gets a Specialization added to them that gives them another role to play with. We do know that there will be more Specializations in the future. If we don’t see the type of variety Revenant has in roles in the professions now, hopefully future Specializations fix this.

phokus.8934:

I am having a hard time seeing this as a step closer to a dedicated healing role.

People forget that this same thing was being said about elements talists and engineers when the game first came out.

I didn’t forget. I never saw anything like this being discussed when the game first came out. Nothing to forget

I think you’re wrong on your first point. I definitely see this as a step closer to a dedicated healing role. If a Salvation, Staff-Wielding Ventari Revenant which screams healing for themselves and allies isn’t a step forward to a dedicated healing role, then I’m not sure what is. A step is a step, and I think this is a step in the right direction.

I don’t think I’ve used ‘step’ as much as I have in one post than this one.

So long as they dont make them required for anything i dont care. If people want to role a healer than let them. Ill only have a problem if they decide that healing must be required for content. Make it usable, make it accepted for things(Dungeons, i could for sure see where this would be a boon to pug groups for example), but dont make it required, unless the team wants one.

well its not liek your forced to go Healer ect ect the content does not need it , its by choice and going as support or healing has no effect on the content but it does effect other players.

so no , no trinity..

also Ventari is a legendary stance not a role or a Class your forced into and that goes against the classic Knowledge of the common Trinity set up.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

well its not liek your forced to go Healer ect ect the content does not need it , its by choice and going as support or healing has no effect on the content but it does effect other players.

so no , no trinity..

also Ventari is a legendary stance not a role or a Class your forced into and that goes against the classic Knowledge of the common Trinity set up.

But choosing Ventari as one of your legendary stances defines the type of Revenant you’re playing. It may not be your “classic Knowledge of the common Trinity set up”, but it doesn’t throw away roles altogether. In my opinion, each legendary stance is a mini-class on its own.

I agree, I think it goes against the “classic, common Trinity” and rightly so – GW2 isn’t looking for that type of system. They’re creating a system where any class can fulfill any role, and Specializations are allowing these professions to do so. (At least that’s what my hopes are.)

piano man.1672:

phokus.8934:

I am having a hard time seeing this as a step closer to a dedicated healing role.

People forget that this same thing was being said about elements talists and engineers when the game first came out.

I didn’t forget. I never saw anything like this being discussed when the game first came out. Nothing to forget

I think you’re wrong on your first point. I definitely see this as a step closer to a dedicated healing role. If a Salvation, Staff-Wielding Ventari Revenant which screams healing for themselves and allies isn’t a step forward to a dedicated healing role, then I’m not sure what is. A step is a step, and I think this is a step in the right direction.

I don’t think I’ve used ‘step’ as much as I have in one post than this one.

People just want to believe what they want to believe which is understandable. But that does not mean this is any step closer to any dedicated healing role in this game. On paper, their healing is ridiculously high which will most likely be scaled down after a few iterations. Their staff and specialization skills are that of Guardians and Elementalists – knowing this one true and hard fact does not mean that any type of dedicated healer is going to be the startup of the class trinity or a dedicated healer.

The core of this game is to be able to spec into whatever you want and still be able to play the game how you want to play it. That aspect is definitely not being changed, modified, or going away – which they’ve made clear. Anything that points to a dedicated healer, damage, or tank role is a step in the wrong direction for GW2… as pointed out by the many posts when the subject is brought up as new posts.

phokus.8934:

piano man.1672:

phokus.8934:

I am having a hard time seeing this as a step closer to a dedicated healing role.

People forget that this same thing was being said about elements talists and engineers when the game first came out.

I didn’t forget. I never saw anything like this being discussed when the game first came out. Nothing to forget

I think you’re wrong on your first point. I definitely see this as a step closer to a dedicated healing role. If a Salvation, Staff-Wielding Ventari Revenant which screams healing for themselves and allies isn’t a step forward to a dedicated healing role, then I’m not sure what is. A step is a step, and I think this is a step in the right direction.

I don’t think I’ve used ‘step’ as much as I have in one post than this one.

People just want to believe what they want to believe which is understandable. But that does not mean this is any step closer to any dedicated healing role in this game. On paper, their healing is ridiculously high which will most likely be scaled down after a few iterations. Their staff and specialization skills are that of Guardians and Elementalists – knowing this one true and hard fact does not mean that any type of dedicated healer is going to be the startup of the class trinity or a dedicated healer.

The core of this game is to be able to spec into whatever you want and still be able to play the game how you want to play it. That aspect is definitely not being changed, modified, or going away – which they’ve made clear. Anything that points to a dedicated healer, damage, or tank role is a step in the wrong direction for GW2… as pointed out by the many posts when the subject is brought up as new posts.

I agree that the idea of play any playsyle you want when you want on any profession is not going to change, but I do however see the possibility of the trinity coming to gw2 .
I wouldn’t necessarily say that rev will be the designated healer, but could very well play the role in what looks to be a shift towards the trinity in gw2. Still could just be wishful thinking though (;

The point is that some people WANT to play a dedicated tank or healer role. It’s not being forced, that’s just how they want to play, and if the game is really supposed to let you play however you want then you should be allowed to play those roles IF YOU WANT. I know a lot of people who said “nope” to GW2 just because it wouldn’t really let them play healers.

It does NOT mean that it has to be mandatory to bring a healer or a tank in the future. It could be better in some fights, while for other fights the zerk meta might be better, and other fights might prefer totally new strategies. There’s a lot of things Arenanet can do here.

Finally Anet realizes that the Vanilla design was poorly done.

Knighthonor.4061:

Finally Anet realizes that the Vanilla design was poorly done.

I’d say done with good intentions. It will be nice to see them make there design of all processions all roles viable throughout gw2

Also can’t forget changes to Engineer Medkit, also might give dedicated healing a push. I don’t think healing will be essential, but it will be nice to finally have good options.

Humenkind.9587:

Also can’t forget changes to Engineer Medkit, also might give dedicated healing a push. I don’t think healing will be essential, but it will be nice to finally have good options.

Wait, what was those changes?

Knighthonor.4061:

Humenkind.9587:

Also can’t forget changes to Engineer Medkit, also might give dedicated healing a push. I don’t think healing will be essential, but it will be nice to finally have good options.

Wait, what was those changes?

http://dulfy.net/2015/04/24/gw2-specializations-ama-livestream-notes/
down to engineer, also a trait giving heals on blast finishers and another putting blast finishers on heal skills in inventions.

Ferever.7014:

While I’m up for the trinity I don’t want GW2 to break word on its promise of people being forced into roles just to complete content. If I can clear content as a tank , healer then I should do able to do it in a all DPS group to as well.

This^

Stop catering to cry babies over imagined slights ANET. Balance your game on numbers and facts…not forum balancing. Recognize the game dynamics you created (that we purchased) and stop trying to nudge us into a trinity.

Bearhugger.4326:

The point is that some people WANT to play a dedicated tank or healer role. It’s not being forced, that’s just how they want to play, and if the game is really supposed to let you play however you want then you should be allowed to play those roles IF YOU WANT. I know a lot of people who said “nope” to GW2 just because it wouldn’t really let them play healers.

It does NOT mean that it has to be mandatory to bring a healer or a tank in the future. It could be better in some fights, while for other fights the zerk meta might be better, and other fights might prefer totally new strategies. There’s a lot of things Arenanet can do here.

You do realize, that the moment it becomes necessary or even preferable to have a healer or a tank, then that becomes a mandatory role in groups? That means forced roles…even if not forced by the game itself…but forced by meta. As it is now, there is literally nothing stopping anyone from clearing any content. What exactly is broken about that? What part of that needs fixing? If you want to roll up into any content with 5 nomads…you can…and you can clear the content. If you want to roll up into any content with 5 zerks…you can…and you can clear the content. If you want to build your character based on healing….have at it. If someone wants to build their character based on all damage…the same applies…not sure why people have a problem with this fairness? This expectation that a group should be forced to accept your play style or choices is pretty ridiculous. Groups are made of players…not AI, and therefore should be free to make their own decisions on who and what they want to group with. This game is about fun…fun is not being forced to reserve group slots because you need a healer or a tank to survive. By the same token that players did not buy this game because of the lack of forced roles…there are lots of players that bought this game because they were not going to be forced into these same roles. The minute I log in and see that I can’t clear content because I have to wait for a tank or healer to join….or that I cannot get a group slot because they need a tank or a healer instead…that’s pretty much the end of me logging in to this game. I’m pretty sure there is a large population of players that feels the same way. Don’t shoot yourself in the foot, ANET, by trying to cater to players who failed to read the original game description or to players who can’t/refuse to adapt to a new game and its mechanics.

hobotnicax.7918:

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind it. Now all we need is content where it will be required to use one (except WvW to an extent), maybe the AI rework will change things in dungeons and events so a healer will be important. We’ll see.

They need to be careful not to turn gw2 into the old curse other games have, the yee old dreaded "LF healer & LF tank posts in LFG systems.

It should be viable but not required !

Man, the people screaming for trinity to be implemented are gonna ruin this [censored] awesome game.

If you miss the [censored] trinity so much, go play one of the million and one other pieces of [censored] mmorpg’s out there that have it.

I’m tired of saying this over the years !!!

phokus.8934:

People just want to believe what they want to believe which is understandable. But that does not mean this is any step closer to any dedicated healing role in this game. On paper, their healing is ridiculously high which will most likely be scaled down after a few iterations. Their staff and specialization skills are that of Guardians and Elementalists – knowing this one true and hard fact does not mean that any type of dedicated healer is going to be the startup of the class trinity or a dedicated healer.

The core of this game is to be able to spec into whatever you want and still be able to play the game how you want to play it. That aspect is definitely not being changed, modified, or going away – which they’ve made clear. Anything that points to a dedicated healer, damage, or tank role is a step in the wrong direction for GW2… as pointed out by the many posts when the subject is brought up as new posts.

I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. Either that, or I didn’t say what I wanted to clearly enough. I apologize if that’s the case. I understand what you’re saying. But in my posts I’m not talking about “starting up the class trinity” or creating “a dedicated healer”.

First in foremost, I believe GW2 is continuing to head into the direction of “any class = any role”, which is what they’ve always done (or attempted), and according to Specializations are trying to continue (or attempt). I’m all good for that, and completely support it.

Within this “new trinity model”, we still have (or are gaining) the roles/archetypes of “DPS”, “HEALER”, and “TANK” – so within this sytem, professions are now exploring the roles they haven’t fulfilled in the past. So when I’m saying GW2 is heading in the right direction of a healing role, I don’t mean the Revenant is now becoming the dedicated healing/support class. I’m saying the Ventari/Salvation Revenant is a step towards fulfilling a [singular] healing role for the Revenant – an option for the player to decide how he wants to roll their Revenant. We’ve got DPS role (Mallyx) and Tank (Jalis RIP) for him, and Ventari/Salvation Revenant fills the Healing/Support role.

Whether or not it excels at a particular role is up to the decision of the development team and players. In this case, I’m not talking about how well it fulfills these roles, only that these roles are available to the Revenant and the Revenant has the decision to decide what role he wants to play at a certain time. The “DPS”, “TANK” and “HEALER” roles are joining other Professions with their Specializations (or future Specializations), allowing other professions the ability to do the same.

“Anything that points to a dedicated healer, damage, or tank role is a step in the wrong direction for GW2”

Please correct me if I’m wrong:
When you say, “dedicated healer, damage, or tank role”, do you mean a 100% dedicated, strictly healer, damage, or tanking Profession? If that’s the case, then no duh! GW2 isn’t heading in this direction. Their philosophy from the get-go is the “All Professions = Ability to Fulfill All Roles” mentality. Not heading in this direction breaks their original plan for the game’s class mechanics.

If GW2 heads toward the direction of giving all professions the ability to fulfill a support/healer, tank, or dps role whenever they choose to spec into one, is GW2 heading into the wrong direction? If so why?

“Their staff and specialization skills are that of Guardians and Elementalists – knowing this one true and hard fact does not mean that any type of dedicated healer is going to be the startup of the class trinity or a dedicated healer.”

Are you saying here that, for example, if a Guardian plays the role as Support/Healer though his skills, traits, and playstyle choices, that Guardian is not fulfilling a support/healer role? I’m not saying that the options Professions will have to fulfill a specific role is causing a profession to be designated a “dedicated healer”, but allowing professions to fulfill any role still creates roles similar to that of the Trinity (DPS, Healer, Tank) and depending on what the player chooses, can fill a role as they see fit.

TLDR: If you’re saying that I’m saying that Specializations are causing Professions to turn into a 100% dedicated role, then you’re wrong. I’m saying Specializations are allowing professions to fulfill roles they haven’t been able to in the past. Specializations aren’t changing Professions into a 100% dedicated role (like Revenants aren’t the dedicated Healers for GW2), but Specializations are giving Professions the option to fulfill any role they choose to (like Revenants can fulfill the role of DPS, or TANK, or SUPPORT, or anything inbetween as they choose, without forcing them to become a dedicated something.)

In my opinion what would make healers desirable but not mandatory would be something very simple like this:

• Out of combat health regeneration only starts after X minutes in open world PVE.
• Out of combat health regeneration doesn’t exist inside instances and dungeons at all.

These small changes would in my opinion promote healing while not specifically making it mandatory.

Just my 2 cents on the issue.

latinkuro.7304:

In my opinion what would make healers desirable but not mandatory would be something very simple like this:

• Out of combat health regeneration only starts after X minutes in open world PVE.
• Out of combat health regeneration doesn’t exist inside instances and dungeons at all.

These small changes would in my opinion promote healing while not specifically making it mandatory.

Just my 2 cents on the issue.

So this idea would effectively decrease quality of life factors for all players…just to push healers onto players. So players with their heal skill on CD, would essentially either have to stand around waiting on this (completely unnecessary) time gate to elapse…or harass another player for a heal.

There was nothing more annoying when playing a character in a game like WoW…when my character has a skill that can heal others…than to have someone demand healing from me. Regardless of me not being grouped with them. Regardless of my actual build…always something dps oriented. Regardless of what I’m doing.

Nope I dont think it is moving that way, GW2 ALWAYS had support builds/rolls.

The game getting harder (maybe) doesnt mean it is still needed, Aegis/blinds/walls for 90% all fights will still be used.

Blinds/Protection boon/Walls/Aegis/Time warp ARE the Support sets for PVE Wvw/pvp is a different monster, but for PvE in order to NOT be forced into a Holy Trinity anet will keep it about the same, better AI and Mechanics doesnt me Trinity.

Faux.1937:

Nope I dont think it is moving that way, GW2 ALWAYS had support builds/rolls.

The game getting harder (maybe) doesnt mean it is still needed, Aegis/blinds/walls for 90% all fights will still be used.

Blinds/Protection boon/Walls/Aegis/Time warp ARE the Support sets for PVE Wvw/pvp is a different monster, but for PvE in order to NOT be forced into a Holy Trinity anet will keep it about the same, better AI and Mechanics doesnt me Trinity.

I wish more people would understand this ^^ and stop asking for holy trinity, but that would require them to be open minded and forward thinking towards the future instead of being stuck in the past. But, noooooo that would make to much sense for them I guess.

it has been stated so many times in the past 3 years…..

gw2 does have support roles and really good ones, just NOT the kind the trinity loving crowd wants and those just would ruin the game, so stop asking for them, please for the love of Tyria……

ODB.6891:

Bearhugger.4326:

The point is that some people WANT to play a dedicated tank or healer role. It’s not being forced, that’s just how they want to play, and if the game is really supposed to let you play however you want then you should be allowed to play those roles IF YOU WANT. I know a lot of people who said “nope” to GW2 just because it wouldn’t really let them play healers.

It does NOT mean that it has to be mandatory to bring a healer or a tank in the future. It could be better in some fights, while for other fights the zerk meta might be better, and other fights might prefer totally new strategies. There’s a lot of things Arenanet can do here.

You do realize, that the moment it becomes necessary or even preferable to have a healer or a tank, then that becomes a mandatory role in groups? That means forced roles…even if not forced by the game itself…but forced by meta. As it is now, there is literally nothing stopping anyone from clearing any content. What exactly is broken about that? What part of that needs fixing? If you want to roll up into any content with 5 nomads…you can…and you can clear the content. If you want to roll up into any content with 5 zerks…you can…and you can clear the content. If you want to build your character based on healing….have at it. If someone wants to build their character based on all damage…the same applies…not sure why people have a problem with this fairness? This expectation that a group should be forced to accept your play style or choices is pretty ridiculous. Groups are made of players…not AI, and therefore should be free to make their own decisions on who and what they want to group with. This game is about fun…fun is not being forced to reserve group slots because you need a healer or a tank to survive. By the same token that players did not buy this game because of the lack of forced roles…there are lots of players that bought this game because they were not going to be forced into these same roles. The minute I log in and see that I can’t clear content because I have to wait for a tank or healer to join….or that I cannot get a group slot because they need a tank or a healer instead…that’s pretty much the end of me logging in to this game. I’m pretty sure there is a large population of players that feels the same way. Don’t shoot yourself in the foot, ANET, by trying to cater to players who failed to read the original game description or to players who can’t/refuse to adapt to a new game and its mechanics.

That’s basically my stance.
I’m okay with more healer/tankish build being viable ingame. But I don’t want them to be required to do anything. I don’t want to think that I’ll have to have one tank and/or one heal if I want to make some dungeons. I want to play like I want, and it’s mostly being free from the Holy trinity that I love in the game.

Faux.1937:

Nope I dont think it is moving that way, GW2 ALWAYS had support builds/rolls.

The game getting harder (maybe) doesnt mean it is still needed, Aegis/blinds/walls for 90% all fights will still be used.

Blinds/Protection boon/Walls/Aegis/Time warp ARE the Support sets for PVE Wvw/pvp is a different monster, but for PvE in order to NOT be forced into a Holy Trinity anet will keep it about the same, better AI and Mechanics doesnt me Trinity.

Those aren’t builds or roles, what you described is utilities. Every full zerker DPS can use blinds/prot/walls/aegis/time warp, there is no build or role required. Those are full dps characters who have the right utilities.

A healing rev will have to spec for healing and wear healing power gear in order to do enough healing for the entire party, that is a role. Currently nothing like that exists, everyone can run full zerker gear and still provide the exact same utility as someone in full nomads gear.

Hopefully we’ll see a similar role develop for tanks where they get a build that gives them tons of taunt and prot and they will benefit from full soliders or nomads gear.

I personally think that GW2 took the no trinity stuff one step too far. The traditional way the trinity works is wrong.

You got tanks agroing everything, dps (and sometimes CC as a separate role) doing the damage and healers healing the tanks. The reason that is boring is cause the tanks can hold all the agro. In GW2 the agrosystem prevents that allready. Still a bit more diversity would be important. A tank holding bout 50% of the agro and a bit more specialisation as a healer would mean that the fight difficulty can be increased a lot and it would encourage coop instead of the current hit it hard tactic.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Faux.1937:

Nope I dont think it is moving that way, GW2 ALWAYS had support builds/rolls.

The game getting harder (maybe) doesnt mean it is still needed, Aegis/blinds/walls for 90% all fights will still be used.

Blinds/Protection boon/Walls/Aegis/Time warp ARE the Support sets for PVE Wvw/pvp is a different monster, but for PvE in order to NOT be forced into a Holy Trinity anet will keep it about the same, better AI and Mechanics doesnt me Trinity.

Those aren’t builds or roles, what you described is utilities. Every full zerker DPS can use blinds/prot/walls/aegis/time warp, there is no build or role required. Those are full dps characters who have the right utilities.

A healing rev will have to spec for healing and wear healing power gear in order to do enough healing for the entire party, that is a role. Currently nothing like that exists, everyone can run full zerker gear and still provide the exact same utility as someone in full nomads gear.

Hopefully we’ll see a similar role develop for tanks where they get a build that gives them tons of taunt and prot and they will benefit from full soliders or nomads gear.

Gear doesnt make a role. IDK why you think this.

A Mesmers Roll and a Guards roll blurr alittle but still have huge differences (In dungeons as for this example).

Doesnt matter what gear they have on, a Mesmer has the ability to give, Reflects, Quickness, Restack boons, Portal, Condi removal and Boon Stripping.

A guard can do these too, but isnt as good as Mesmer by far, a guard tho can Stack more boons, give better ones and Keep Protection up 100% (If wanted to) Uses Walls/blocks to protect players.

A Guard doesnt have to spec into healing to be a good healer, There is the Book to do that, Protection+Regen also is a very strong Combo (this is fitting the Roll of a guard)

The Difference in GW2 is ALL PLAYERS need to pull their own wieght in BOTH DPS and Team Support. A team or a player CAN use difference gear to HELP fill a void the team is missing, this doesnt mean it defines that roll or sudo forces a player to gear for this roll.

Faux.1937:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Faux.1937:

Nope I dont think it is moving that way, GW2 ALWAYS had support builds/rolls.

The game getting harder (maybe) doesnt mean it is still needed, Aegis/blinds/walls for 90% all fights will still be used.

Blinds/Protection boon/Walls/Aegis/Time warp ARE the Support sets for PVE Wvw/pvp is a different monster, but for PvE in order to NOT be forced into a Holy Trinity anet will keep it about the same, better AI and Mechanics doesnt me Trinity.

Those aren’t builds or roles, what you described is utilities. Every full zerker DPS can use blinds/prot/walls/aegis/time warp, there is no build or role required. Those are full dps characters who have the right utilities.

A healing rev will have to spec for healing and wear healing power gear in order to do enough healing for the entire party, that is a role. Currently nothing like that exists, everyone can run full zerker gear and still provide the exact same utility as someone in full nomads gear.

Hopefully we’ll see a similar role develop for tanks where they get a build that gives them tons of taunt and prot and they will benefit from full soliders or nomads gear.

Gear doesnt make a role. IDK why you think this.

A Mesmers Roll and a Guards roll blurr alittle but still have huge differences (In dungeons as for this example).

Doesnt matter what gear they have on, a Mesmer has the ability to give, Reflects, Quickness, Restack boons, Portal, Condi removal and Boon Stripping.

A guard can do these too, but isnt as good as Mesmer by far, a guard tho can Stack more boons, give better ones and Keep Protection up 100% (If wanted to) Uses Walls/blocks to protect players.

A Guard doesnt have to spec into healing to be a good healer, There is the Book to do that, Protection+Regen also is a very strong Combo (this is fitting the Roll of a guard)

The Difference in GW2 is ALL PLAYERS need to pull their own wieght in BOTH DPS and Team Support. A team or a player CAN use difference gear to HELP fill a void the team is missing, this doesnt mean it defines that roll or sudo forces a player to gear for this roll.

Gear doesn’t CURRENTLY play a role. What i’m saying is that will change with HoT and the introduction of the trinity that is Rev. A healing power primary stat geared rev will be able to heal the entire party for what currently looks like 4-5k/s. There is nothing even close to that currently. I think the best you can currently do is a staff ele, which can burst heal ~15k but then is stuck on 20-30s of little to no healing at all. The Rev has no CD’s, they can just keep healing forever.

With the introduction of Taunt, a tank role is also potentially viable, which would require soldiers gear to keep threat.

So yes, currently roles are not gear dependent, everyone wears zerker and can fill any role they want. That will not be the case once the trinity is introduced.

But hot and rev arnt making a trinity at all… Just b.c 1 Spec is healing based doesnt mean anything at all, its the nature of the class to have different dominated specs as a play style.

But you can say the same for all other classes, its clearing visible with Condi vs not condi.

Taunt again other classes are getting it, a Zerker can add taunt to the bar doesnt mean he is a tank.

Ferever.7014:

While I’m up for the trinity I don’t want GW2 to break word on its promise of people being forced into roles just to complete content. If I can clear content as a tank , healer then I should do able to do it in a all DPS group to as well.

Well as it is, it’s virtually only DPS. If there’s not going to be a trinity, then things besides dps need to be able to complete content as efficiently as a bunch of dps characters.

Faux.1937:

Gear doesnt make a role. IDK why you think this.

It’s part of what makes a role. Glass cannons cannot be glass cannons with nomad gear, just as healers cannot be healers with berserker gear.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Ferever.7014:

While I’m up for the trinity I don’t want GW2 to break word on its promise of people being forced into roles just to complete content. If I can clear content as a tank , healer then I should do able to do it in a all DPS group to as well.

Well as it is, it’s virtually only DPS. If there’s not going to be a trinity, then things besides dps need to be able to complete content as efficiently as a bunch of dps characters.

Faux.1937:

Gear doesnt make a role. IDK why you think this.

It’s part of what makes a role. Glass cannons cannot be glass cannons with nomad gear, just as healers cannot be healers with berserker gear.

But a Zerk can still support or CC or Heal, a Zerk ele traited correctly can still heal for 500-700 HP.

Gear makes it more effective not defines it, Traits, weapons sets and utilities defines it.

latinkuro.7304:

hobotnicax.7918:

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind it. Now all we need is content where it will be required to use one (except WvW to an extent), maybe the AI rework will change things in dungeons and events so a healer will be important. We’ll see.

They need to be careful not to turn gw2 into the old curse other games have, the yee old dreaded "LF healer & LF tank posts in LFG systems.

It should be viable but not required !

Man, the people screaming for trinity to be implemented are gonna ruin this [censored] awesome game.

If you miss the [censored] trinity so much, go play one of the million and one other pieces of [censored] mmorpg’s out there that have it.

I’m tired of saying this over the years !!!

Maybe it’s a case of attempting to create an innovative new ballgame by leaving out the ball.

Faux.1937:

But a Zerk can still support or CC or Heal, a Zerk ele traited correctly can still heal for 500-700 HP.

Gear makes it more effective not defines it, Traits, weapons sets and utilities defines it.

A berserker player can only do all of that because the support and CC they use (from utilities typically) all have high base values and little-to-no scaling values, so they don’t have to give up anything proper to use it (PvE-wise). Other roles are different. A support character can’t just slot damage utilities and suddenly gain an enormous amount of damage.
And healing for 500-700HP is pathetically weak. If I was that zerker ele, I wouldn’t even bother casting that.

It defines it along with traits, weapons, and utilities. One cannot properly play their role without having the appropriate stats for it.
A perfect example are staff elementalists, staff elementalists using berserker gear can immediately be considered glass cannons.

Curses, ninja’d! I had it in mind to start a thread with this same title.

But yes, the new Revenant functionality as a dedicated healer is a bit alarming. I suspected for a while that ANET might try to shake up the game by slipping in the holy trinity, but until now thought it was just the paranoia of an old, jaded gamer who had been burned too many times in the past.

Perhaps it wasn’t just paranoia.

I doubt they want to ruin their unique combat system.

All classes have their healing/tanking traits and utilities. Freedom of customization just washed out these borders. Revenant’s non existent customization and main mechanic just made these choices more distinct.

By the way… taunt in gw2 is a “reverse fear” condition, not some tanking utility.

i really hope they dont trinity this game, but making ventari such a heal heavy specialization, when current content sees no benefit at all to healing, suggests the new content will need it.

i mean, pvp will likely become heal heavy just with the existence of such a high HPS class.

It’s my hope that ANet will stick to its “healing for others is optional” design. However, I’ve been disappointed more than once about the way they’ve rolled the game since launch. So I’m expecting the worst, and looking to see what else is out there/coming.

I don’t mind the idea of more options to provide healing, if that’s the way someone wants to go. After all, that is possible now. I am concerned that the Ventari legend might be so much more effective at it than the other professions. However, we have not seen the effect of the new core specs yet or whether healing coefficients on the skills of other core professions will be changed.

I would mind the idea that heal others would become mandatory in content. Also, if that much group heal is locked into one profession then making such necessary will make that profession mandatory. I’d view this as a game-breaking (for me) departure from ANet’s original design intent, as well as another thumb in the eye of those who bought the game based on their pre-launch design hype.

Also I want people to keep in mind.

Poison will be the new major +Healing Counter. It stacks intensity now. Meaning poison got a major buff.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Faux.1937:

Nope I dont think it is moving that way, GW2 ALWAYS had support builds/rolls.

The game getting harder (maybe) doesnt mean it is still needed, Aegis/blinds/walls for 90% all fights will still be used.

Blinds/Protection boon/Walls/Aegis/Time warp ARE the Support sets for PVE Wvw/pvp is a different monster, but for PvE in order to NOT be forced into a Holy Trinity anet will keep it about the same, better AI and Mechanics doesnt me Trinity.

Those aren’t builds or roles, what you described is utilities. Every full zerker DPS can use blinds/prot/walls/aegis/time warp, there is no build or role required. Those are full dps characters who have the right utilities.

A healing rev will have to spec for healing and wear healing power gear in order to do enough healing for the entire party, that is a role. Currently nothing like that exists, everyone can run full zerker gear and still provide the exact same utility as someone in full nomads gear.

Hopefully we’ll see a similar role develop for tanks where they get a build that gives them tons of taunt and prot and they will benefit from full soliders or nomads gear.

what you described is also WRONG !

those are the traditional style trinity roles which are tied to stats and all that.
utilities ARE part of your build in gw2 it is THE reason zerkers can bring meaningful support…..

This also points to yet another thing trinity lovers do that ticks me off !
trying to implement those trinity style ideas to a game that is vastly different.
if you don’t like how a.net implemented support and you wanna play a trinity style role system go play a trinity based game there problem solved.

I for one like the ideas implemented though they are not perfect they are to me far better than the yee old stuffy trinity roles of getting stuck on one role you either do dps, tank or heal. what a boring crap.

I think it’s a good thing, with the Ventari and the Druid perhaps the elementalist will get to play more offensively and will less feel like a water bot.

It could also be a bad thing, and the ele will be out of the meta as everyone rolls revenants and necros.

What I’d really like to see is something that takes us away from the all zerk meta we are stuck in currently. Everyone keeps saying that they don’t want to see a shift torwards required healing or optimal healing but until we have content that cannot be so easily cleared by the zerkers all those healing builds , weather they are viable or not , will continue to be pushed to the side. The mindset goes, there’s no reason to slow down our dps if we have no reason to, so if we are not required a healer, we don’t want it.

We need content in this game that will give those healing, tanking , support roles purpose, until then they will never be optimal builds and the community will continue to push other viable builds to the side

What’s the point in running a healer if no body needs you and most don’t want you