One step closer to holy trinity with Ventari

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

why cant you see that zerk is dead. good ridance

HOT is gunna have trinty bc anet is listining to the real players who dont want to exploit every boss with stacking and zerkers and blinds or reflect abuse. wee want real mecaanics not braindead metazerger.

their giving us the trinty and heal and tanks bc HOT is going to be super hard and challanging. they already said u will need to bring more defence and less dmg to the new fights sence they are tough like mordrem mobs

try doing HOT in zerk = wipe. the trinty is comin bc anet wants to fix the game

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

:( dont be mean and laugh, i paid for this game and deserve an opinon. im just like you

you dont think this means trinty? why not? ventrilo can heal a tank that has taunt to holed agro on mobs for dps

this absolutly opens up trinty gameplay

all theyd need to do is nerf self heal abilites and we have a trinty meta!

But is doesnt open it up at all………….

Ele and Guard can both heal an AMAZING amount, we never had trinity before that.

And Taunt is like a 2-3 sec Reverse fear that Many classes are getting. Taunt I see more as a way to help please res or be able to get the mob off them for a short time to heal/wait for a cool down.

As far as I know the best healing before now was a staff ele… which had 3 heals. a 200/s heal on auto attack, geyser, a burst heal which heals ~3k + 800/s for 3s (20s CD) and healing rain which grants 12s of regen and curse 3 conditions (45s cd)… That gives 200/s + 270/s + 60/s = 500-600/s.

Rev gets 1400 healing on 3rd auto attack (2s combo), 1500 healing (15s CD), heal skill that heals 900 on 2s CD, passive heal that heals 100/s, unlimited projectile reflect, 1900 healing every 2s, condition removal (35s CD), 1200 healing fragments (no CD, high energy cost).

That gives 700/s + 100/s +450/s + 100/s +950/s = 2300/s plus burst heals and condition removal

That of course doesn’t use the fact that rev can get traits for plus 40% healing increase plus 1.5% healing output per 100 healing power, bringing the total to 3200hp/s without healing power gear…so yeah it seems rev is 5x better at healing than any current healers, and that doesn’t even count the HUGE boost they will get from healing power.

With a healing rev you could have the rest of your group facetank the entire game. No need to waste time dodging or moving out of fire, just DPS it down!

You need to do ele stats again with the correct traits…..

No I don’t. I didn’t include stats or traits in this calculation… 500 for ele 2300 for rev, no traits or stats included. They both get access to stats and traits (rev gets much more than ele anyway). That’s 5x, it gets closer to 7x if you want to include traits and stats since rev gets much better healing traits.

Also with that much healing you won’t need to dodge or move so it doesn’t need to be taken into account, plus PvE is stack and spam anyway, so this will just further enforce that.

Um? Yeah stack and spam is really gonna help you in HoT. Not. Watch any of the videos.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

While I’m up for the trinity I don’t want GW2 to break word on its promise of people being forced into roles just to complete content. If I can clear content as a tank , healer then I should do able to do it in a all DPS group to as well.

This^

Stop catering to cry babies over imagined slights ANET. Balance your game on numbers and facts…not forum balancing. Recognize the game dynamics you created (that we purchased) and stop trying to nudge us into a trinity.

The problem though is having no trinity creates the other side of the coin where elitism exist since a single play style (zerk meta) can clear pretty much all content and many develop the attitude of “no zerk gtfo”. The game needs to rebalance its current content to have better variety catering to some condi or support builds required to have a smoother experience rather than zerk always being the meta for everything.

GW2 has no more elitism than any other MMO. The main difference is that in other MMOs they actually supply us with high end content. This means your casual player rarely encounters the elitism because they’re in a completely different set of content.

GW2 forces everyone to play together no matter how much their viewpoints on things conflict. “you’ll play together and get along and you’ll like it!”

But, look how well that’s turned out…

Of course a little respect and communication could go a long way. YOu know, zerk people playing with zerk people, and non zerk’s playing with non zerks, and when you bump into each other you just give a head nod and move on away from each other so you don’t have to deal with points of view that may annoy you. But hey, this is getting silly, we all know respect and communication are two things that will never happen

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Posted by: Eponet.4829

Eponet.4829

Heal support characters are valued. Have you not seen the prevalence of shout-warrior in PvP?

The problem is that in PvE, everyone goes glass cannon, and thus everyone gets killed too quickly for healing to work when they mess up, and at the highest levels, even if they’re not going berserker they tend to die too quickly to heal due to enemy damage numbers being so high.

(edited by Eponet.4829)

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Posted by: Faux.1937

Faux.1937

While I’m up for the trinity I don’t want GW2 to break word on its promise of people being forced into roles just to complete content. If I can clear content as a tank , healer then I should do able to do it in a all DPS group to as well.

This^

Stop catering to cry babies over imagined slights ANET. Balance your game on numbers and facts…not forum balancing. Recognize the game dynamics you created (that we purchased) and stop trying to nudge us into a trinity.

The problem though is having no trinity creates the other side of the coin where elitism exist since a single play style (zerk meta) can clear pretty much all content and many develop the attitude of “no zerk gtfo”. The game needs to rebalance its current content to have better variety catering to some condi or support builds required to have a smoother experience rather than zerk always being the meta for everything.

LOL omg LOL

Do you really think having a Non trinity/zerk meta made players Elitest force ALL OTHER PLAYERS to be elite?

NO!!!!!

You have MANY options to NOT play Zerk or be Elitest

Here are a few ways

  • Join Fun/non elite guilds
  • LFG with FUN play ANY build
  • Meet like minded players and FRIEND THEM
  • Dont join Elitest groups
    etc… etc….

This game is one of the ONLY MMO’s that you DONT have to be FORCED to play a certain way. Other MMO’s with trinity YOU HAVE TO have 1-2 Tanks, 1-2 Healers and 3-6 DPS, and Raids you HAVE to make sure raid buffs are up blah blah blah, and your very limited on the builds you play, some games you DON’T have any options other than Tank build, DPS build, Heal build. Then you have some games where your weapons ARNT even an option.

At least in GW2 you can change your traits, weapon sets, utilities and gear stats.

Stop pretending like you dont have options, b.c from the ACTUAL games point of view You have MORE options than any other MMO I have ever played.

SAB or RIOT

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Posted by: NapTooN.6283

NapTooN.6283

Also I want people to keep in mind.

Poison will be the new major +Healing Counter. It stacks intensity now. Meaning poison got a major buff.

Stacking in Intensity only affects the Damage, not the Anti Heal. It means it is less viable at countering Healing because it will not last as long as right now.

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Posted by: Algreg.3629

Algreg.3629

While I’m up for the trinity I don’t want GW2 to break word on its promise of people being forced into roles just to complete content. If I can clear content as a tank , healer then I should do able to do it in a all DPS group to as well.

This^

Stop catering to cry babies over imagined slights ANET. Balance your game on numbers and facts…not forum balancing. Recognize the game dynamics you created (that we purchased) and stop trying to nudge us into a trinity.

The problem though is having no trinity creates the other side of the coin where elitism exist since a single play style (zerk meta) can clear pretty much all content and many develop the attitude of “no zerk gtfo”. The game needs to rebalance its current content to have better variety catering to some condi or support builds required to have a smoother experience rather than zerk always being the meta for everything.

You are either rather inexperienced in the genre or least you never have played MMORPG heavily or let´s call it “seriously” for the lack of a better word.

-BiS gear would only change to having new BiS gear for your relevant role.
- Blame and shame the healer. Investigate that. It is really fun for people playing that role.
- “I need those last %”-tanks. Yeah, good luck on pinging your beloved “play how I want gear” when roles arrive. People have way more responsibility in trinity AND their failure does not vanish in the background noise of the encounter. That goes for subpar gear for their role too, especially for that.
- LFM/LFG queue fun.

The original GW2 approach is more forgiving for unskilled and uninvested players. Many of the “but I wanna play the way i want to!” crowd will be in for a very rude awakening if GW goes trinity.

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

I don’t even think that Ventari will be that good support.

It lacks HoTs, has little personal healing, little boons, very small radius it can be really effective in and relies very heavily on thinking capabilities of other teammates/allies. Has to stay in the melee fight for max use.

Honestly, Shoutbow, Gaurd are still better supports. Easier to play, don’t depend heavily on teammates.

Ventari healing Revenant is certainly an interesting choice, but I believe, reduced to organized groups.

That’s said, Ventari will stack incredibly well with other supports/healers, because it doesn’t overwrite boons, it’s just raw healing, except of occassional Regeneration which will be much more powerful than regular regen from other sources.
I imagine that two Revenants healing each other and the party may be really strong.
However, what party would bring two healing supports?

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

lol rite thier are 83 stat in the game but onyl zerk can be used. and you say ‘divesity’ smh

when anet anounces trinty based raids for chalanging group content well finaly have a use for other gear not just zerk. ventrilso can wear clercs for OP healing and still have a main power state for rly strong dps. how will ther be less diversty when we have hybrid heal/dps gear and proffesion hmm/

taunt tanks could wear smthing like soldier gear with power tough and vitals to be able to soak dmg and hitting hard with the power.

the trinty will be there but it will be a trinty of hybred. tank/dps and heal/dps but well neeed the strong survive from tanky gear and healing gear to win the content. zerk wont work anymore

that is what is diversty

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

what is BiS?

need to rite more apparently…need 15 charcters?

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Posted by: DresdenAllblack.1249

DresdenAllblack.1249

Agreed. Anyone even mentions meta in our guild & they’re gone!
Wait…how is that better?!?

Angelina is free game again.
Crystal Desert

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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

:( dont be mean and laugh, i paid for this game and deserve an opinon. im just like you

you dont think this means trinty? why not? ventrilo can heal a tank that has taunt to holed agro on mobs for dps

this absolutly opens up trinty gameplay

all theyd need to do is nerf self heal abilites and we have a trinty meta!

But is doesnt open it up at all………….

Ele and Guard can both heal an AMAZING amount, we never had trinity before that.

And Taunt is like a 2-3 sec Reverse fear that Many classes are getting. Taunt I see more as a way to help please res or be able to get the mob off them for a short time to heal/wait for a cool down.

As far as I know the best healing before now was a staff ele… which had 3 heals. a 200/s heal on auto attack, geyser, a burst heal which heals ~3k + 800/s for 3s (20s CD) and healing rain which grants 12s of regen and curse 3 conditions (45s cd)… That gives 200/s + 270/s + 60/s = 500-600/s.

Rev gets 1400 healing on 3rd auto attack (2s combo), 1500 healing (15s CD), heal skill that heals 900 on 2s CD, passive heal that heals 100/s, unlimited projectile reflect, 1900 healing every 2s, condition removal (35s CD), 1200 healing fragments (no CD, high energy cost).

That gives 700/s + 100/s +450/s + 100/s +950/s = 2300/s plus burst heals and condition removal

That of course doesn’t use the fact that rev can get traits for plus 40% healing increase plus 1.5% healing output per 100 healing power, bringing the total to 3200hp/s without healing power gear…so yeah it seems rev is 5x better at healing than any current healers, and that doesn’t even count the HUGE boost they will get from healing power.

With a healing rev you could have the rest of your group facetank the entire game. No need to waste time dodging or moving out of fire, just DPS it down!

You need to do ele stats again with the correct traits…..

No I don’t. I didn’t include stats or traits in this calculation… 500 for ele 2300 for rev, no traits or stats included. They both get access to stats and traits (rev gets much more than ele anyway). That’s 5x, it gets closer to 7x if you want to include traits and stats since rev gets much better healing traits.

Also with that much healing you won’t need to dodge or move so it doesn’t need to be taken into account, plus PvE is stack and spam anyway, so this will just further enforce that.

Um? Yeah stack and spam is really gonna help you in HoT. Not. Watch any of the videos.

Well I don’t know about any videos, but i’ve played HoT and stack and spam is still the name of the game. The only potential candidate for removing that is the upcoming raids, but we have heard nothing about those yet, and if anything they will require more trinity not less.

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Posted by: EcoRI.9273

EcoRI.9273

I have a question for the people that think Berserker is the only viable way to play this game, where are you getting this information from?

Look up [KING] FOTM tournament. The tournament was about who can run FOTM the fastest and had top speed running guilds participating, aka some of the best players in PvE participated in this event. The 2nd place guys ran a bunker PTV AH Guardian. So how is berserker the only viable way of playing this game?

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Posted by: Faux.1937

Faux.1937

I have a question for the people that think Berserker is the only viable way to play this game, where are you getting this information from?

Look up [KING] FOTM tournament. The tournament was about who can run FOTM the fastest and had top speed running guilds participating, aka some of the best players in PvE participated in this event. The 2nd place guys ran a bunker PTV AH Guardian. So how is berserker the only viable way of playing this game?

What makes a Bunk Guard with good rotations better (for some teams, not for all) Is that the Other players DONT have to dodge/res/get down/waste utility for D-fens skills and focus ONLY on straight dps.

But again this is not for everyone and not all teams will like this, They are the only ones Pushing for records, but I bet the more players that push for fotm records you would see a few different team just like we do for Dungeons.

SAB or RIOT

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Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

Which means it’s a viable way to play, correct?

It’s just not optimal. Most groups want optimal these days because there are a lot of bored players that have ‘experience’, e.g. have memorized the encounters and can pull it off in optimal gear.

Other gear is still viable, just not popular, and that’s entirely due to stale, first generation mechanics that haven’t been touched since launch.

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Posted by: Faux.1937

Faux.1937

Which means it’s a viable way to play, correct?

It’s just not optimal. Most groups want optimal these days because there are a lot of bored players that have ‘experience’, e.g. have memorized the encounters and can pull it off in optimal gear.

Other gear is still viable, just not popular, and that’s entirely due to stale, first generation mechanics that haven’t been touched since launch.

Was just explaining a Few things about it and why it is viable. never said it wasnt

And this is WHY gw2 DOESNT need trinity, the game is actually balanced really well for build diversity, just players dont want to explore and try new things, or even play this way. They think its All or nothing ALL THE TIME, and that is just not true.

Some fights you dont even need high dps, and some are DPS races, thats why we can change traits while out of combat in Dungeons/Instances. Otherwise Anet wouldnt have let us in Instances.

They want us to change utilities/weapons/builds when it sees fit.

SAB or RIOT

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

what is BiS?

Best in Slot, referring to gear with the maximum amount of stats. In GW2 this is Ascended gear (and/or Legendary Weapon).

lol rite thier are 83 stat in the game but onyl zerk can be used. and you say ‘divesity’ smh

when anet anounces trinty based raids for chalanging group content well finaly have a use for other gear not just zerk. ventrilso can wear clercs for OP healing and still have a main power state for rly strong dps. how will ther be less diversty when we have hybrid heal/dps gear and proffesion hmm/

taunt tanks could wear smthing like soldier gear with power tough and vitals to be able to soak dmg and hitting hard with the power.

the trinty will be there but it will be a trinty of hybred. tank/dps and heal/dps but well neeed the strong survive from tanky gear and healing gear to win the content. zerk wont work anymore

that is what is diversty

Nope, that’s not diversity, it’s dedicated roles. I’m afraid you’re going to have to look for another buzz word to justify your preferred approach, promoting gear diversity is inaccurate.

In trinity play, what options would the dedicated tank have? Would he be able to slot a variety of different gear and perform his role? Nope, he’d be required to wear Soldier’s. How about the healer? Would he be wearing Magi? Nope, he’d be wearing Cleric’s (or whatever).

No meta group will ever allow a departure from what is considered ideal. Trinity would not change that.

If you’re going to call being able to wear a variety of gear prefixes “diversity,” then that’s what GW2 has now. The game presents content that groups can complete in their choice of gear/weapon/traits build. The more requirements imposed by the game, the less diversity the game promotes. Making tanks and healers mandatory would kill a lot of the “anything goes” groups that complete content in GW2 now.

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Posted by: Ranael.6423

Ranael.6423

Every profession has currently a healing spec. Some are most powerful than other but still…
So a new profession should have it, there is no surprise but it doesn’t mean it will be more required in any game activity. Actually you can perfectly play healer in the actual state of the game, even in dungeons. The fact that it is not required is a different story.

The difference with Rev is that you have a big boost in outgoing healing which makes sense from a design point of view since we are speaking about a heavy armoured and medium life profession, so obviously giving him to much self healing would be too strong or too mandatory if base healing was low.

That said I quite don’t like the fact that healing is dependant on a Legend AND a weapon. I can see the point of having an off legend for healing but I fail to see right now any synergy between staff and other legend. I truly think Staff revenant will be the next bearbow, as in they will suffer from auto kick upon grouping.

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Posted by: EcoRI.9273

EcoRI.9273

Cleric’s build in FoTM, https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCxfgAjHhmmy0a29VtGeRpCK4ADb4SQTS . Another viable build that isn’t berserker.

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

what is BiS?

Best in Slot, referring to gear with the maximum amount of stats. In GW2 this is Ascended gear (and/or Legendary Weapon).

lol rite thier are 83 stat in the game but onyl zerk can be used. and you say ‘divesity’ smh

when anet anounces trinty based raids for chalanging group content well finaly have a use for other gear not just zerk. ventrilso can wear clercs for OP healing and still have a main power state for rly strong dps. how will ther be less diversty when we have hybrid heal/dps gear and proffesion hmm/

taunt tanks could wear smthing like soldier gear with power tough and vitals to be able to soak dmg and hitting hard with the power.

the trinty will be there but it will be a trinty of hybred. tank/dps and heal/dps but well neeed the strong survive from tanky gear and healing gear to win the content. zerk wont work anymore

that is what is diversty

Nope, that’s not diversity, it’s dedicated roles. I’m afraid you’re going to have to look for another buzz word to justify your preferred approach, promoting gear diversity is inaccurate.

In trinity play, what options would the dedicated tank have? Would he be able to slot a variety of different gear and perform his role? Nope, he’d be required to wear Soldier’s. How about the healer? Would he be wearing Magi? Nope, he’d be wearing Cleric’s (or whatever).

No meta group will ever allow a departure from what is considered ideal. Trinity would not change that.

If you’re going to call being able to wear a variety of gear prefixes “diversity,” then that’s what GW2 has now. The game presents content that groups can complete in their choice of gear/weapon/traits build. The more requirements imposed by the game, the less diversity the game promotes. Making tanks and healers mandatory would kill a lot of the “anything goes” groups that complete content in GW2 now.

ok roles, gear what ever. same thing. rite now all is zerk dps.

zerk will alwyas be best for dps bc dps has no diversity. power nad crit is all u need no other stats give dmg like these

heal could be more than clercs:

heal gears
- clerc: heal power, power, tough — versitle heal build that has tank and dps minor atts for less heal importnt fight
- zealot: power, crit, heal pow — dps/heal hybrid
- nomad: tough, vit, heal — tankie heal build could be used when healer, needs to take sum dmg, to keep tank and dpsrs up
- grivers: tough, boontime, heal pow: survive and HoT can help when regen is mor import than direct heals
- magi and apoth: both have potental use too

tank can be more than solders:

tank gears
- solders/valkiary/knight good dps good survive
- nomad very strong tank esp with good regen sinrgy
- gvier good for like hammar guaurd prot spam

we already have a ‘bis’ and its alway zerk

with more roles we have better divrse gear choice opton and more possiblty to use other gear when it make sences.

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Posted by: EcoRI.9273

EcoRI.9273

What I love about this game is that when content is balanced correctly(FOTM 50), Berserker is only BiS when your group is skilled. If your group is not skilled, having a guardian that is specced to be a bunker will probably be faster at completing the content( as shown in the [KING] tournament, where berserker players were slower than a group with a ptv bunker guardian)

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(edited by EcoRI.9273)

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

ok roles, gear what ever. same thing. rite now all is zerk dps.

zerk will alwyas be best for dps bc dps has no diversity. power nad crit is all u need no other stats give dmg like these

heal could be more than clercs:

heal gears
- clerc: heal power, power, tough — versitle heal build that has tank and dps minor atts for less heal importnt fight
- zealot: power, crit, heal pow — dps/heal hybrid
- nomad: tough, vit, heal — tankie heal build could be used when healer, needs to take sum dmg, to keep tank and dpsrs up
- grivers: tough, boontime, heal pow: survive and HoT can help when regen is mor import than direct heals
- magi and apoth: both have potental use too

tank can be more than solders:

tank gears
- solders/valkiary/knight good dps good survive
- nomad very strong tank esp with good regen sinrgy
- gvier good for like hammar guaurd prot spam

we already have a ‘bis’ and its alway zerk

with more roles we have better divrse gear choice opton and more possiblty to use other gear when it make sences.

Sorry. Assuming that having a tank and/or healer becomes required, there will always be a single gear choice for that role, just as there is for DPS. That’s what a metagame is in an MMO; the most popular choice because it’s considered to be the best choice. There is only one best choice. All a trinity meta does with dedicated roles is make tanks wear the best tank gear, healers the best heal gear and DPS the best DPS gear.

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

Sorry. Assuming that having a tank and/or healer becomes required, there will always be a single gear choice for that role, just as there is for DPS. That’s what a metagame is in an MMO; the most popular choice because it’s considered to be the best choice. There is only one best choice. All a trinity meta does with dedicated roles is make tanks wear the best tank gear, healers the best heal gear and DPS the best DPS gear.

sorry 4 my enlish im still learning. i dont think i made my point good

when all role is dps there is only zerk no other stats are dps. just need power crit

othr roles can use more stat as i shown in my list. boontime, dps, tough, hp, etc all can b used for tweeking for spacific encounter

there is no tweek for dps no reason to do anything but zerk

hopeful that is more clear

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

meta problem here is all fights have same best BIS

we need to have fights need divers gear for more interest gameplay

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

instead of just one gear for evrything.

there are 93 amrors, y?

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Posted by: EcoRI.9273

EcoRI.9273

Honestly I think there are some players who shouldn’t play Berserker set ups. I had a real life friend who ran berserker guardian but keeps dying even in the easiest dungeons like SE because he was playing GW2 on a toaster and couldn’t dodge what so ever. Dead Guardian = no team support in WoR,stability, condition removal so my whole team wipes. I then complained to him that he should run knight’s gear and then runs got smoother. This was at a stage of my gw2 life where i pugged 2 random people with my 2 RL friends.

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Posted by: MattyP.6954

MattyP.6954

I think that there is a bit of an issue with how this whole Trinity Discussion has been framed. I don’t think that GW2 will ever have a system where there is a dedicated healer, a dedicated tank, and dedicated DPS. It doesn’t fit with game, and it doesn’t fit with what Anet has revealed their design philosophy thus far.

What we’ll probably see in a GW2-flavored trinity system is a situation where every player is expected to play 2 of three roles (Damage, Sustain-Support, Condi-Support), and gear choices will have to compliment the roles players want to fulfill.

Roles:

  • Damage: Basic DPS
  • Sustain-Support: Support Through Healing/Tanking/Boon-sharing and general mitigation
  • Condi-Support: Support Through CC/Debilitating enemies with Conditions

There will always be YOLO Zerkers who will go full DPS, but most players will probably go for some combination of the three above to provide maximum party flexibility. Some examples:

  • Explosives/Inventions Engineer Running Settlers and PS for Condi-Support and Sustain-Support through Elixer Bombs, upcoming healing traits, and all of the condis in the explosives line and weapon sets
  • Shout Warrior running Zealot Gear with Longbow/Sword Warhorn providing boons, condi removal, and AoE heals on top of consistent damage for DPS and Sustain-Support

I don’t think that it will be about shoehorning people in to a certain role—it will probably be about making roles more attractive to play.

Server — Fort Aspenwood
Mains — Mathias of the Wood [Ranger]; Collaborator Bluatt [Engineer]
Alts — Necromancer, Warrior, Elementalist

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Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

I don’t even think that Ventari will be that good support.

It lacks HoTs

Wait, so HoT won’t have HoTs?

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Posted by: Faux.1937

Faux.1937

I don’t even think that Ventari will be that good support.

It lacks HoTs

Wait, so HoT won’t have HoTs?

Guard, Ranger, ele.. oh wait, every class has Regen (aka Hot)

SAB or RIOT

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Posted by: EcoRI.9273

EcoRI.9273

I think that there is a bit of an issue with how this whole Trinity Discussion has been framed. I don’t think that GW2 will ever have a system where there is a dedicated healer, a dedicated tank, and dedicated DPS. It doesn’t fit with game, and it doesn’t fit with what Anet has revealed their design philosophy thus far.

What we’ll probably see in a GW2-flavored trinity system is a situation where every player is expected to play 2 of three roles (Damage, Sustain-Support, Condi-Support), and gear choices will have to compliment the roles players want to fulfill.

Roles:

  • Damage: Basic DPS
  • Sustain-Support: Support Through Healing/Tanking/Boon-sharing and general mitigation
  • Condi-Support: Support Through CC/Debilitating enemies with Conditions

Condi-Support in current meta: Guardian with purging flames, Virtue of resolve(f2) with absolute resolution trait.
Debilitating enemies with Conditions in current meta: Thief can poison, weaken, cripple and immbolize when needed. Ele can chill and give vulnerability.
Sustained-Support in current meta: Guardian can F2 to heal, can provide Aegis for general mitigation, can give stability boon to share. Eles can share might and fury. Eles can also Heal with staff 5 when needed.

Looks like the current game is what you want.

http://www.twitch.tv/eco_r_i
Wynd Cloud | Fierce N Licious

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Posted by: TheRandomGuy.7246

TheRandomGuy.7246

instead of just one gear for evrything.

there are 93 amrors, y?

Armor count is increasing at an alarming rate.

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

instead of just one gear for evrything.

there are 93 amrors, y?

Armor count is increasing at an alarming rate.

ok ok i didnt actually count but it isnt import

my arguement is still sound even if the number is off

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

ok smartee pants how many armors are even in the game

since u think its even posble to know that

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Posted by: Dante.1763

Dante.1763

ok smartee pants how many armors are even in the game

since u think its even posble to know that

There are 24 armor and weapon stats. Not counting mixing multiple stat types together. Zerk, Zealot, Soldiers, Valkyrie, Captains, Rampagers, Assassins, Knights, Cavaliers, Nomads, Settlers, Givers, Sentinel, Shaman, Sinister, Carrion, Rabid, Dire, Winter, Giver(Different from Givers), Clerics, Magi, Apothecary, Celestial.

Now, not all of those are available in Armor, or Weapons, Or trinkets. Im honestly starting to think you are a troll at this point because of your last few comments.

The pvp community reminds me of what Obi-kittenenobi describes Mos Eisley as from star wars.

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

how did you find that? i was lookin on the bl tp for the stats but i couldnt count them all.

only 24 stats means there r still 23 that dont get used. not a troll i just wnat to help make the game more fun bc zerkmeta is lame. if evryone who wants zerkmeta to change is a troll thn i guess there are a lot of trolls lol

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Posted by: Dante.1763

Dante.1763

how did you find that? i was lookin on the bl tp for the stats but i couldnt count them all.

only 24 stats means there r still 23 that dont get used. not a troll i just wnat to help make the game more fun bc zerkmeta is lame. if evryone who wants zerkmeta to change is a troll thn i guess there are a lot of trolls lol

GW2 Wiki. Its a thing. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equipment_acquisition_by_stats

And again you are wrong. I use Sinister on my Ranger, Zerker on my Mesmer, Knights, Zerker, AND nomads on my Guardian. Celestial on my ele, Assassins on my other Mesmer. Rampagers on my Necromancer.

I never get kicked from dungeons, but then again i never join Zerker speed groups unless im on my mesmer. Even on my ranger and my necro i never get kicked.

And there arent alot of people that want it changed. Just a loud minority.

The pvp community reminds me of what Obi-kittenenobi describes Mos Eisley as from star wars.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

meta problem here is all fights have same best BIS

we need to have fights need divers gear for more interest gameplay

Gear provides passive boosts to stats. Changes to passive aspects of games do not promote more interesting play. Changes to active aspects of games promote more interesting play. Interesting gameplay can be achieved via demanding that players use their skills, active defense, positioning, etc. more or in different ways. It can be achieved via diverse fight mechanics.

None of this requires wearing different gear — except in the heads of people who cannot get over the idea that gear is a major determiner of role. That’s not what gear does in this game. Gear determines condition v. direct damage and survivability v. damage. Role is determined by profession, weapon choice, utility choice and traits.

Lupicus is a more interesting fight than the HotW story shaman Champion that just stands in one place and uses 2-3 ST attacks in the same rotation. As with all PvE content, though, even interesting active play and mechanics remain interesting only so long.

So, will HoT content task players active play more? Probably. Will that last? Not likely. Will it affect dungeons that ANet has no intention to do anything with? Nope. Will glass gear still be the meta choice in dungeons? Yep. Will people continue to use whatever gear they want in the persistent world events? Yep. Will there be PvP/WvW complaints about Rev heals? Maybe, it depends on how much the tablet issue limits the Rev. Dedicated healing and tanking is not going to happen without much more drastic changes to the game than a CC that will be less than reliable and increased healing.

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

thanks for the info that wiki is neat. there goes my afernoon

you may not use only zerg gear but that means u are not the problem

all these other ppl sayin ‘no trinty zerk is ok’ though

i hope anet isnt listens to them. i bought gw2 to play a casul gameplay were people have fun but its hard to have fun when u cant play how u want. trinty would help a lot with that i thnk.

maybe they shuld redo the lfg tool. take out desc and just make it a que so everyone just gets auo paired

since theres no trinty (for now!!!) and no rolls any group setup can play thro the content and there woud be no more zerk only for fast run nonsence.

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

None of this requires wearing different gear — except in the heads of people who cannot get over the idea that gear is a major determiner of role. That’s not what gear does in this game. Gear determines condition v. direct damage and survivability v. damage. Role is determined by profession, weapon choice, utility choice and traits.

Lupicus is a more interesting fight than the HotW story shaman Champion that just stands in one place and uses 2-3 ST attacks in the same rotation. As with all PvE content, though, even interesting active play and mechanics remain interesting only so long.

So, will HoT content task players active play more? Probably. Will that last? Not likely. Will it affect dungeons that ANet has no intention to do anything with? Nope. Will glass gear still be the meta choice in dungeons? Yep. Will people continue to use whatever gear they want in the persistent world events? Yep. Will there be PvP/WvW complaints about Rev heals? Maybe, it depends on how much the tablet issue limits the Rev. Dedicated healing and tanking is not going to happen without much more drastic changes to the game than a CC that will be less than reliable and increased healing.

ok that makes sence i guess. gear doesnt make the game mor intersting, but i think it still matters

sure changin gear dont chang the content but thats bc the content isnt divers enof to make u WANT to change gears. everything is stand and spam

now if there were trinty and rolls then evryone would WANT to chnge gears and not try to tank in zerk lolol

so while the gear wont fix the problem. the lack of gear diversty, is a simptom.

and i say trinty is the cure

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Posted by: Dante.1763

Dante.1763

No trinity is the way to go. If this game ever goes trinity i will leave. I got sick and kittening tired of having to wait for a godkitten healer or tank in GW1 for content, before heroes where added, and even after it was annoying as hell.

I like being able to swap to a healing guardian or ele if i need to. I also like being able to be a tank ele or warrior if needed.

Even if they change the content i dont see Trinity ever being a thing. They just need to introduce monsters that have different aggro mechanics, different ways to beat them. See the husks. My condition ranger and necro melt them. My full zerker mesmer does not, at least not as fast. That is all it would take for you to see more people running these other armor sets in PVE.

The pvp community reminds me of what Obi-kittenenobi describes Mos Eisley as from star wars.

(edited by Dante.1763)

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Posted by: Faux.1937

Faux.1937

No trinity is the way to go. If this game ever goes trinity i will leave. I got sick and kittening tired of having to wait for a godkitten healer or tank in GW1 for content, before heroes where added, and even after it was annoying as hell.

I like being able to swap to a healing guardian or ele if i need to. I also like being able to be a tank ele or warrior if needed.

Even if they change the content i dont see Trinity ever being a thing. They just need to introduce monsters that have different aggro mechanics, different ways to beat them. See the husks. My condition ranger and necro melt them. My full zerker mesmer does not, at least not as fast. That is all it would take for you to see more people running these other armor sets in PVE.

I never had a Fully Dedicated Healer after Factions hit, it was played like GW2 is played, You have necro/Ele/monk all have some Healing, some utility and then Aoe Burst.

At least thats how I played and never had any troubles other than Speed Clears, and you cant count those, b.c They were Special Team builds per area. UW was different than FoW and Topk was different than Slayers and that was different than DoA.

SAB or RIOT

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Posted by: Dante.1763

Dante.1763

I never had a Fully Dedicated Healer after Factions hit, it was played like GW2 is played, You have necro/Ele/monk all have some Healing, some utility and then Aoe Burst.

At least thats how I played and never had any troubles other than Speed Clears, and you cant count those, b.c They were Special Team builds per area. UW was different than FoW and Topk was different than Slayers and that was different than DoA.

Im aware of this, however i was never in a big guild, didnt have any friends who played, etc. i always had to rely on pug groups, and those werent always the best, hell they arent in this game either, and most of them would wait for a dedicated healer and tank. I did of course after awhile start doing everything myself with just heroes.

The trinity still will not solve anything. It takes less skill than running around in zerker armor too. The tank takes all the hits. The healer heals the tank and keeps him alive, and the DPS stay in the back(what im used to) and kill everything. <-Trinity, did i nail it?

With Zerker speed clear groups(and some of those dont even want everyone in zerker gear), everyone is doing CC, Healing, and doing damage, all when needed, while using active defenses and boons to reduce or negate any damage taken. That takes more skill than the above at least to me.

The pvp community reminds me of what Obi-kittenenobi describes Mos Eisley as from star wars.

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

i see it diffrent. i like play heals so i never had problems finding group in trinty

if u have bad time finding group as dps make a tank/heal alt. wanna play dps too bad

ok ok i dont mean that im just makin a point

bc thats what im told here when i try to heal:: switch to dps wanna play heal too bad

there is no play how i want when no one needs the toon i wanna play

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Posted by: ForeverAway.5948

ForeverAway.5948

watch nikeeu’s video of trinty play in WILDSTAR.

the mechanic is simple to explane ok but it can be used to build more harder fight

here the mechanic is now stand around a boss that cnt move and dps until it dead <- zerker meta did i nail it

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Posted by: Darkwolfer.7819

Darkwolfer.7819

i see it diffrent. i like play heals so i never had problems finding group in trinty

if u have bad time finding group as dps make a tank/heal alt. wanna play dps too bad

ok ok i dont mean that im just makin a point

bc thats what im told here when i try to heal:: switch to dps wanna play heal too bad

there is no play how i want when no one needs the toon i wanna play

I like to play heals too but because the way the game is designed it is far inferior. There is not enough dungeons / challenging content.

I’ve said many times I don’t care if they want people to be able to play without the holy trinity but they should also make it viable for those who want it.

I’ve made a couple of “to-the-point” suggestions.

1. Make it so we can have alt builds, so when I am solo in PvE I can switch to DPS spec but in group content can switch to healing spec. This is also a potential $$$ for them as they could sell build slots.

2. Make heals and toughness mean more. (Which I feel they are doing with the trait line changes but we will see)

I who have played MMORPGs since MUDs were a thing and I enjoy the trinity. Perhaps I feel safe in it… or perhaps everyone can do everything feels like it takes no skill or coordination.

They just need content for everyone. I still don’t play the meta. I run full Soldier’s on my Engineer and run a tanky/Flamethrower build. I’ve never had anyone complain about my DPS. It has been sited though that I tend to get aggro which helps others DPS since the mob isn’t on them.

So it is possible. You just have to find other players with like-minded ideas. Is every combination going to work? Probably not but it depends on you and as long as you are having fun.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

ok that makes sence i guess. gear doesnt make the game mor intersting, but i think it still matters

sure changin gear dont chang the content but thats bc the content isnt divers enof to make u WANT to change gears. everything is stand and spam

now if there were trinty and rolls then evryone would WANT to chnge gears and not try to tank in zerk lolol

so while the gear wont fix the problem. the lack of gear diversty, is a simptom.

and i say trinty is the cure

There is no lack of gear diversity in GW2. There is a lack of understanding of the role of gear on the forums, and a lack of new and challenging small group content that forces people to use the role diversity the game provides.

Trinity is a “cure” for the desire to play a dedicated role. There are plenty of boring encounters in trinity games.

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Posted by: Windsagio.1340

Windsagio.1340

There’s pressure against gear diversity on the forums and to a lesser degree in the LFG tool.

The funny thing is, that as far as actual impact it’s faded greatly. FAR fewer lfg ads require zerk now, you can get into most things pretty quickly as anyone (as I’ve mentioned elsewhere there are some exceptions to that. Try starting a LFG for Arah or a high fractal as a Necro or Ranger and you might be waiting there a while watching your toenails grow).

The problem is fixing itself as people realize that it simply doesn’t matter that much whether you’re zerk or not. The problem seems to be that the forum never forgets a grievance, so they’re still worked up over it.

~~~~

This is sad to me, because there’s a lot of interesting discussion to have over the current game balance and encounter style, and how it might change.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

There’s pressure against gear diversity on the forums and to a lesser degree in the LFG tool.

The funny thing is, that as far as actual impact it’s faded greatly. FAR fewer lfg ads require zerk now, you can get into most things pretty quickly as anyone (as I’ve mentioned elsewhere there are some exceptions to that. Try starting a LFG for Arah or a high fractal as a Necro or Ranger and you might be waiting there a while watching your toenails grow).

The problem is fixing itself as people realize that it simply doesn’t matter that much whether you’re zerk or not. The problem seems to be that the forum never forgets a grievance, so they’re still worked up over it.

~~~~

This is sad to me, because there’s a lot of interesting discussion to have over the current game balance and encounter style, and how it might change.

Exclusion by profession is an issue that is at least relevant to GW2 design intent. Professions were designed to be definitive with regard to different play experiences. If one is just persistent world herding then this is less apparent than in content where players do more than strafe, use #1 skill on auto-attack and use other skills when off CD regardless of whether their effects are needed.

The issues with Ranger and Necro are different from each other. The variety of play-styles available to a Necro just work better in PvP/WvW than in small group PvE. This is especially evident the harder the small group content is — as in Arah and FotM high scales.

Rangers, otoh, suffer from prejudice due to a (perhaps mistaken, but perhaps not) belief that a ranger is likely to be playing the longbow role. The LB role suffers because of the proximity requirement for group synergy mechanics. LB is demonstrably easier to play than melee ranger, where single sword is actually to play successfully than weapons that do not lock the character into an animation.

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Posted by: Windsagio.1340

Windsagio.1340

For the record, I feel the problems with necro and ranger are also insignificant, but that’s just a tougher stereotype to crack.

At least it only really impacts you if you’re trying to start a group yourself (usually, there are still a few kittens out there still posting “NO CLASS X”)

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Posted by: IllegalChocolate.6938

IllegalChocolate.6938

ok that makes sence i guess. gear doesnt make the game mor intersting, but i think it still matters

sure changin gear dont chang the content but thats bc the content isnt divers enof to make u WANT to change gears. everything is stand and spam

now if there were trinty and rolls then evryone would WANT to chnge gears and not try to tank in zerk lolol

so while the gear wont fix the problem. the lack of gear diversty, is a simptom.

and i say trinty is the cure

There is no lack of gear diversity in GW2. There is a lack of understanding of the role of gear on the forums, and a lack of new and challenging small group content that forces people to use the role diversity the game provides.

Trinity is a “cure” for the desire to play a dedicated role. There are plenty of boring encounters in trinity games.

What is the role of gear if you don’t mind me asking? I haven’t actually read anything official on the matter myself. From what I understand they were specifically designed to simply boost the stats of your character sheet.