Guild Wars 2

Okay, I know the term “good” can be ambiguous, but just hear me out on this. I’m pretty sure I wasn’t the only one that was disappointed in the Zhaitan fight. I mean you worked all those story missions and traveled all the way to orr to engage in a battle that meant spamming “2” for three minutes (or whatever you hotkeyed the trigger at the time).

Sure it was “pretty” to watch, but it was TOO EASY and a big slap in the face, considering how difficult some of of his minions were. There are arguments justifying, "Well Zhaitan was basically a necromancer. And Necroes are not generally stronger than his minions. " That’s not the case I’m trying to say here, I’m saying “boss battles,” not lore logic.

What I feel, is that a final boss battle should include the culmination of all the skills you’ve learned up to that point. And if you don’t apply them, you fail. It shouldn’t just be a fancy cinematic mixed with so little action that even a new guy can do it. SERIOUSLY! I really feel that a level 1 newbie could have killed Zhaitan! I mean all he’d have to do is sit at the cannon and press the button right?

Have you ever fought a disappointing boss? Or been a situation where it was even missing a boss battle? What do you all think? I personally think its not just about the visuals and storyline, but it’s also got to include your peak skills and experience.
: The boss battle should satisfying both as a game and visual story.

They would get so much flak if they gave us Mordremoth as Zhaitan 2.0. I don’t know how good it will be, but it is almost impossible to have it be as bad as Zhaitan was.

Ralanost.8913:

They would get so much flak if they gave us Mordremoth as Zhaitan 2.0. I don’t know how good it will be, but it is almost impossible to have it be as bad as Zhaitan was.

Have to agree with this. The devs are very aware of the community’s reaction to the Zhaitan fight, I think this will be pretty awesome. I’m expecting something similar to the final Scarlet fight. Large group for the “raid” feel, then a personal way to go in and smash its face so you feel like the hero.

Just my thoughts.

Our skills, as a individual character, is a joke compared to the eternal dragons. It makes a Lot more sense , logically, that we would use a super weapon to kill them.

No.

1) Autoattack
2) ??
3) ?????
4) Mordremoth dead
5) Profit

Brother Dulfite.5793:

Our skills, as a individual character, is a joke compared to the eternal dragons. It makes a Lot more sense , logically, that we would use a super weapon to kill them.

Unless youre a norn who can knock out a tooth!

I do not think we will be fighting Mordy in the expansions.
Matt Visual HoT interview

most likely, since the expansion is about mordremoth, he’ll probably be the raid boss.

AVM.5746:

Okay, I know the term “good” can be ambiguous, but just hear me out on this. I’m pretty sure I wasn’t the only one that was disappointed in the Zhaitan fight. I mean you worked all those story missions and traveled all the way to orr to engage in a battle that meant spamming “2” for three minutes (or whatever you hotkeyed the trigger at the time).

Sure it was “pretty” to watch, but it was TOO EASY and a big slap in the face, considering how difficult some of of his minions were. There are arguments justifying, "Well Zhaitan was basically a necromancer. And Necroes are not generally stronger than his minions. " That’s not the case I’m trying to say here, I’m saying “boss battles,” not lore logic.

What I feel, is that a final boss battle should include the culmination of all the skills you’ve learned up to that point. And if you don’t apply them, you fail. It shouldn’t just be a fancy cinematic mixed with so little action that even a new guy can do it. SERIOUSLY! I really feel that a level 1 newbie could have killed Zhaitan! I mean all he’d have to do is sit at the cannon and press the button right?

Have you ever fought a disappointing boss? Or been a situation where it was even missing a boss battle? What do you all think? I personally think its not just about the visuals and storyline, but it’s also got to include your peak skills and experience.
: The boss battle should satisfying both as a game and visual story.

The only way it could be epicly good is if they made it a world boss where 100+ players are involved. A dungeon boss or storyline boss would have to be toned down a lot and essentially be Zhaitan 2.0.

Brother Dulfite.5793:

Our skills, as a individual character, is a joke compared to the eternal dragons. It makes a Lot more sense , logically, that we would use a super weapon to kill them.

I don’t care. This is a fantasy game. Turrets aren’t fun. Screw your logic.

Ralanost.8913:

Brother Dulfite.5793:

Our skills, as a individual character, is a joke compared to the eternal dragons. It makes a Lot more sense , logically, that we would use a super weapon to kill them.

I don’t care. This is a fantasy game. Turrets aren’t fun. Screw your logic.

I have love for you!

Lindelle.3718:

Brother Dulfite.5793:

Our skills, as a individual character, is a joke compared to the eternal dragons. It makes a Lot more sense , logically, that we would use a super weapon to kill them.

Unless youre a norn who can knock out a tooth!

Asgeir was helped by all the Spirit and had the most powerful Jotun artefact with him.

Brother Dulfite.5793:

Our skills, as a individual character, is a joke compared to the eternal dragons. It makes a Lot more sense , logically, that we would use a super weapon to kill them.

I agree, the personal story is done individually (yes you can choose to add more) but it can’t be you (and a few NPCs) against a dragon and be some kind of “epic” fight without some type of super weapon manned by you or an NPC.

This just in…

The final boss battle is an epic cutscene where we get to watch our hero in the most over the top, action packed, and mind blowing fantasy fight that you will lay your eyes on.

No, but really, I fall asleep doing PvE I really hope the xpac changes that.

it will be as epic kittenerer………………lol i would cry.

Brother Dulfite.5793:

Our skills, as a individual character, is a joke compared to the eternal dragons. It makes a Lot more sense , logically, that we would use a super weapon to kill them.

Sure, phase 1 use super weapons to knock Elder Dragon down a peg or two, phase 2 go in for the kill ala no super weapons needed.
The easiest way to fix the Zhaitan fight would simply have been to add another phase after the tower in which we actually get to hit / shoot / magic zhaitan to death.

Nephziel.6053:

I do not think we will be fighting Mordy in the expansions.
Matt Visual HoT interview

Colin has the amazing ability to not say things. He didn’t technically say we’re killing Mordy, but he didn’t technically say we’re not killing Mordy.

DeathPanel.8362:

The only way it could be epicly good is if they made it a world boss where 100+ players are involved. A dungeon boss or storyline boss would have to be toned down a lot and essentially be Zhaitan 2.0.

I don’t think Zhaitan’s fight was bad, I just think it was incomplete.

The problem with defeating either dragon is explaining the persistance of their influence – Orr still full of Risen, SW still full of Mordrem, etc.

Call me crazy, but I think the personal story should be re-done where we FAIL to kill Zhaitan. We only neutralize it temporarily.

DeathPanel.8362:

The only way it could be epicly good is if they made it a world boss where 100+ players are involved. A dungeon boss or storyline boss would have to be toned down a lot and essentially be Zhaitan 2.0.

I don’t think Zhaitan’s fight was bad, I just think it was incomplete.[/quote]

IT IS incomplete, or at least, there area lot of hints pointing at that. (I think youll find videos, etc.)

Just look at the map of Arah. There are some locations youll never see. Neither in story or explorer mode. Such as “The Elder Dragon´s Lair”. (Or did anyone manage to get there?)

I just think ANet cut out the second phase (if there ever was one in the first place! It could be just me imagine things there….)

o/

Ralanost.8913:

Brother Dulfite.5793:

Our skills, as a individual character, is a joke compared to the eternal dragons. It makes a Lot more sense , logically, that we would use a super weapon to kill them.

I don’t care. This is a fantasy game. Turrets aren’t fun. Screw your logic.

I am glad that we don’t think in stereotypes anymore.

Yea…the Zhaitan battle was kinda rushed imo.

What makes you think we will be fighting Mordremoth directly, or that there will be a “final boss battle” at all?

Colin was very, very cagey in one of those previous press interviews when questioned about “the Mordremoth fight”

It doesn’t seem like that we will kill Modremoth in the expansion. They also talk about living story after the expansion taking place in expansion area. It feels like we would be fighting modremoth for probably another year.

Yes because u will most likely not get more then 2 maps (if lucky) in this expansion. Instead new maps will be released with LS and slowly leading to Mordremoth. That’s what i understood at least. Is that a good or bad thing? I personally hate if they would go in that direction. I want a content expansion that keeps me playing not a feature expansion with “maps/zones” being considered third class priority. If it’s just features i will most likely continue to do what i am doing now…play the initial content then login for like 10min/day because of nothing to do.

Showing us a dragon and then not offering us a fight with him is kinda dumb on all human levels.

AVM.5746:

Okay, I know the term “good” can be ambiguous, but just hear me out on this. I’m pretty sure I wasn’t the only one that was disappointed in the Zhaitan fight. I mean you worked all those story missions and traveled all the way to orr to engage in a battle that meant spamming “2” for three minutes (or whatever you hotkeyed the trigger at the time).

Sure it was “pretty” to watch, but it was TOO EASY and a big slap in the face, considering how difficult some of of his minions were. There are arguments justifying, "Well Zhaitan was basically a necromancer. And Necroes are not generally stronger than his minions. " That’s not the case I’m trying to say here, I’m saying “boss battles,” not lore logic.

What I feel, is that a final boss battle should include the culmination of all the skills you’ve learned up to that point. And if you don’t apply them, you fail. It shouldn’t just be a fancy cinematic mixed with so little action that even a new guy can do it. SERIOUSLY! I really feel that a level 1 newbie could have killed Zhaitan! I mean all he’d have to do is sit at the cannon and press the button right?

Have you ever fought a disappointing boss? Or been a situation where it was even missing a boss battle? What do you all think? I personally think its not just about the visuals and storyline, but it’s also got to include your peak skills and experience.
: The boss battle should satisfying both as a game and visual story.

This. I specifically remember a ton of people quitting the game especially people new to the guild wars community and just excited about all the hype from ign etc. They had an amazing new game unlike any other mmo… then zhaiten lol quite possibly the lamest last boss in any video game, ever. That coupled with the fact of “nothing to do now” attitude that people not used to sideways progression with skins instead of up progression of raid stats. While I’m cool with the sideways progression idea, that AND the terrible last boss was a huge reason why so many players quit. This isn’t my speculation anyone who played during that time remembers tons of people whining about it in mapchat and saying that’s why they were quitting. Personally the revamped teq fight puts zhaiten to shame, and he’s supposed to be his lieutenant, an underling.

I’m not saying make it impossibly hard though that would be something awesome to work to at least. But make it an awesome battle. Some of the living world fights are going in that direction

For me the final battle with Zhaitan was the best part of personal story lvl 80.
It was the reason I didn’t quit the game after all the unfair fights in previous chapters and horrible Orr.
Why? Because it was all I wanted to have in Orr instead of horrible killing machines – It was spooky, mysterous, atmospheric and surprising. Also Zhaitan had really cool image.

But on the other hand if they would make it the opposite – more spooky then dangerous island and more dangerous boss fight – it would be even better for me. I wouldn’t mind to have more dangerous boss fight in the end of my personal story if my previous lvl 70-80 gaming experience wouldn’t be full of unfair fights and slaughtering. Obviously – both RP and fighting players would be satisfied.

If they would have better pacing of how the danger of the hell island grows – as it would be in a well made horror game – for example – walking corpses are spooky enough because you never know when they would notice you, so they would attack randomly – it would have more cool effect. Or if more of them would come with fog only – you would feel strange – asking Where are they? and then they would come with fog in great numbers and event would start. I really loved the island when I saw it within the dream with Pale tree avatar, I’m so sad it ruined my game experience when I was trying to enjoy it

I belive they admited something along the lines of Zhaitan beeing a failiure, in the way that they wanted to make something cool, but couldn’t pull it off, so it ended as a “click 1 to victory” bossbattle, but since the release of the game they learned a lot about the design off bossbattles, I belive most of us can agree for example that the bossbattles in silverwastes are way more interesting then the ones in Orr, or that the fractal bosses are more challanging than most dungeon bosses right?
Therefore, I belive Mordremoth will be a way more challanging boss than Zhaitan was, since we won’t even be able to just blast him with canons(he is most likely going to be underground, since his leyline vines are part of his body).

The best design for the Mordremoth bossfight I could think of is him beeing a dungeon/raid, where the whole dungeon is his body, where we fight section after section of organs and stuff that lives inside of him, but let’s see how this is going.

I think we will fight Mordremoth in the expansion, it would be kind of weird having all of season 1 working towards him, all of season 2 prepearing for him and then still not do anything with him in season 3(I am just calling HoT season 3 now, since the end of season 2 goes over into HoT).

CureForLiving.5360:

DeathPanel.8362:

The only way it could be epicly good is if they made it a world boss where 100+ players are involved. A dungeon boss or storyline boss would have to be toned down a lot and essentially be Zhaitan 2.0.

I don’t think Zhaitan’s fight was bad, I just think it was incomplete.

The problem with Zhaitan is you can’t really do an epic dragon fight with just a 5 player instance. They should’ve implemented Zhaitan as a world boss in cursed shore in line with difficulty and scale of TEQ.

DeathPanel.8362:

The problem with Zhaitan is you can’t really do an epic dragon fight with just a 5 player instance. They should’ve implemented Zhaitan as a world boss in cursed shore in line with difficulty and scale of TEQ.

naaah, that would be no good because it wouldn’t feel like we really killed an elder dragon, when it just gets done every 3 hours. That and, I prefer it beeing press 1 to win over it beeing a zergrush that gets done every 3 hours.

The Bosses in the storymodes are pretty important to the overall lore in the world, be it king Adelbern, Gaheron Baelfire or Zhaitan.

The fight against Scarlett was able to do this because it was part open world and part instanced, that said though, it worked only because it was in a limited time window and now Scarlett is dead for certain.

Maybe they will try to approach Mordremoth like that, but it wouldn’t work for Zhaitan anymore, since he has been dead for quite some time in the timeline now.

You know what happens when you azzume that there’s going to be a big boss battle at the end of HoT?

Maybe they’ll release him later on post expansion as some sort of raid boss like they did with the lich king. It was quite an epic way to finish that expansion.

Im more worried about character development. Not our characters because from what I saw that looks pretty good. But I mean the dragon and namely every other character.

Zaklex.6308:

You know what happens when you azzume that there’s going to be a big boss battle at the end of HoT?

It’s a game. Not only a game, but an MMORPG. Of course there are going to be big bosses to fight. You look silly saying that.

Zaklex.6308:

You know what happens when you azzume that there’s going to be a big boss battle at the end of HoT?

You make an kitten out of u and me?

Nova.8021:

Maybe they’ll release him later on post expansion as some sort of raid boss like they did with the lich king. It was quite an epic way to finish that expansion.

I’m still wondering why my warlock never ran through the streets of Dalaran shouting: “The Lich King is still alive! The Lich King is still alive!”. Of course player characters are not a part of lore in WoW though…

If there’s no elder dragon fight at the end of HoT you can already start calling it Living Story Season 3 “this time in a box”

if the dragon is big enough, I can imagine something like old gods (or something like that) fights from WoW (C’Thun, Yogg-Saron, Iso’rath etc), where you literally enter their body through some part or teleport and kill them from inside by killing the brain or something… does it make sense from GW perspective?

I would like to see the Mordremoth battle end up being its own open world map similar to Silverwastes, except this time the zone wide event is just the fight against the dragon.

It could be broken into phases, including (as just an example) clearing our way to the dragon (20 minutes), freeing packs of mobs (Sylvari) from corruption, forcing the elder dragon to the surface (taking about 30 minutes), climbing the dragon/positioning teams to take him out (10 minutes), an epic zone wide fight against the dragon itself (10-20 minutes) and, finally, a short celebration period (20 minutes) during which there are loot-heavy fun events (giving people a reason to continually work the map).

Yes, because pew pew ing elder dragon with a hundred ppl zerg shooting lasers from max distance would be so much different to zhaitan’s fight.

I can see us weakening Mordy by cutting off troops and doing other things like we did with Zhaitan and at the last step we see another elder dragon most likely Primordus actually killing him. So far Mordy has gone into all the elder dragon’s territories so its only a matter of time when one fights back.

Dear Arena NET, please . . .

make the battle against Mordremoth permanent! (1-time account chest reward)
make it HARD as you never did before!
make players to fulfill their destinies as heroes against SUPREME FOE together!

And please . . .
dont make Mordremoth battle to be a 5 ppl story line dungeon – its pathetic!

Mordremoth is one of the Elder Dragons and you have no right to humiliate dignity of the players and the Dragon by simple 5-10min fights.

Cheers!

Seishiro.7468:

DeathPanel.8362:

The problem with Zhaitan is you can’t really do an epic dragon fight with just a 5 player instance. They should’ve implemented Zhaitan as a world boss in cursed shore in line with difficulty and scale of TEQ.

naaah, that would be no good because it wouldn’t feel like we really killed an elder dragon, when it just gets done every 3 hours. That and, I prefer it beeing press 1 to win over it beeing a zergrush that gets done every 3 hours.

The Bosses in the storymodes are pretty important to the overall lore in the world, be it king Adelbern, Gaheron Baelfire or Zhaitan.

The fight against Scarlett was able to do this because it was part open world and part instanced, that said though, it worked only because it was in a limited time window and now Scarlett is dead for certain.

Maybe they will try to approach Mordremoth like that, but it wouldn’t work for Zhaitan anymore, since he has been dead for quite some time in the timeline now.

That idea is bad. Making Mordremoth temporary like Scarlet makes no sense since he is tied to the expansion and not living story. All that means is someone getting the expansion at a later date after the time period would be locked out of crucial content. The best way to do it is via world boss implementation with zone wide event chain.