Guild Wars 2

So I was listening to the regular POI, and heard this:

“unlocking a waypoint after progressing a certain amount”
“unlocking NPC interactions”
“unlocking resource farms”

Does anyone else feel this could be horrific BS? After the screaming over progression-gating traits, skill-lots and other features, they’re going to add more progression-gating?

I mean, ‘unlocking’ waypoints could just mean getting them uncontested, but it doesn’t sound like that to me. It sounds like people need to progress the meta event for the map to be accessible.

The new maps are going to be all 100% Silverwaste style, so I’m bracing myself for fights about people being on the map and but participating in the meta events. We’ve seen enough of that with champ trains and Silverwastes/Dry Top. Some people like wandering, or finding interesting NPC dialogue, or taking absurd screenshots! Sometimes people like doing meta events at one point and not another. But if we have to deal with the meta events to get access to the map, apparently. Why is ANet building an entire expansion solely for a single playstyle?

Other major problems:

• Zones shown seem totally designed around group play. People playing at offhours are SOL.
• Adventures and leaderboards – does anyone else have more info on how these work? Can we disallow our data showing up on leaderboards? Not everyone likes measuring their kitten every play session, and some people like playing alone/have stalkers/etc and don’t want to share their favorite content with all and sundry.

Gilosean.3805:

So I was listening to the regular POI, and heard this:

“unlocking a waypoint after progressing a certain amount”
“unlocking NPC interactions”
“unlocking resource farms”

Does anyone else feel this could be horrific BS? After the screaming over progression-gating traits, skill-lots and other features, they’re going to add more progression-gating?

I mean, ‘unlocking’ waypoints could just mean getting them uncontested, but it doesn’t sound like that to me. It sounds like people need to progress the meta event for the map to be accessible.

We have that now. It’s Straits of Devastation, more or less. And some people really like the design, considering . . .

The new maps are going to be all 100% Silverwaste style, so I’m bracing myself for fights about people being on the map and but participating in the meta events. We’ve seen enough of that with champ trains and Silverwastes/Dry Top. Some people like wandering, or finding interesting NPC dialogue, or taking absurd screenshots! Sometimes people like doing meta events at one point and not another. But if we have to deal with the meta events to get access to the map, apparently. Why is ANet building an entire expansion solely for a single playstyle?

Are you sure about that?

• Zones shown seem totally designed around group play. People playing at offhours are SOL.

I doubt it. Megaservers should cover that except for maybe a small period at around 5am PST?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Gilosean.3805:

So I was listening to the regular POI, and heard this:

“unlocking a waypoint after progressing a certain amount”
“unlocking NPC interactions”
“unlocking resource farms”

Does anyone else feel this could be horrific BS? After the screaming over progression-gating traits, skill-lots and other features, they’re going to add more progression-gating?

I mean, ‘unlocking’ waypoints could just mean getting them uncontested, but it doesn’t sound like that to me. It sounds like people need to progress the meta event for the map to be accessible.

We have that now. It’s Straits of Devastation, more or less. And some people really like the design, considering . . .

The new maps are going to be all 100% Silverwaste style, so I’m bracing myself for fights about people being on the map and but participating in the meta events. We’ve seen enough of that with champ trains and Silverwastes/Dry Top. Some people like wandering, or finding interesting NPC dialogue, or taking absurd screenshots! Sometimes people like doing meta events at one point and not another. But if we have to deal with the meta events to get access to the map, apparently. Why is ANet building an entire expansion solely for a single playstyle?

Are you sure about that?

• Zones shown seem totally designed around group play. People playing at offhours are SOL.

I doubt it. Megaservers should cover that except for maybe a small period at around 5am PST?

It could be like Orr…but it could also not. If they mean ‘uncontesting a waypoint’ why did they say ‘unlock’ instead? It sounds like they’re thinking of something new, and the way it was presented made it seem like it was more heavily tied to completing the meta events then current content is.

I’m pretty sure that when they say ‘all the maps will be built around metaevents like Silverwaste’ that’s what they mean. It’s great that some people like Silverwastes. But it’s only 1 way to build a map. A very specific way that strongly encourages people to play it exactly as intended, and doesn’t leave room for much exploring or anything else. When I hear that the expansion maps are all built like Dry Top/Silverwastes I get a lot less interested, because I don’t find those maps very fun.

We’ve never really seen what happens to a metaevent map when it isn’t the latest farming content. Right now Silverwastes seems to be doing OK, but Dry Top seems a lot less populated. When we get a whole new expansion, how much will the spreading player population impact that? How badly will the new-content-farmers leaving SW for HoT mess up the ability to complete the map? IDK, but taking a look at WvW I think coverage could be an issue for keeping the maps playable. I could be wrong, but a whole map designed around high-level group play is riskier than one not designed for that.

I don’t think we have enough info to get upset over.

Sieg.8439:

I don’t think we have enough info to get upset over.

When has that ever stopped people from overreacting?

The more we have info about the new expansion the more we get disappointed XD I truly hope this trend will change..or no Hot for me sorry ^^

Darkness.9732:

The more we have info about the new expansion the more we get disappointed XD I truly hope this trend will change..or no Hot for me sorry ^^

Who are these we, you keep talking about?
Maybe you should go and get a check up so we dont keep happening

Edit
Im glad we havent heard the R word from you yet in this thread tho its and improvement

There’s stuff to explore even in the Silverwastes, though admittedly less of it. Then again, it’s not an expansion map.

My guess is there will be plenty to explore in the new maps in addition to whatever else they give us.

Think of normal maps a sec. There’s tons of POI’s way points, all sorts of stuff. You can complete some maps without even getting into every area of that map. There’s hidden stuff all over the place.

The these things aren’t mutually exclusive.

People DID ask for progression. They asked for horizontal progression. There’s different ways things can progress. There’s character progression, story progression…and yes, with any sort of progression something is always gated in some sense. Pretty sure you can’t get to 80 without hitting 79 first.

Progression doesn’t have to be a bad word.

POI is so disappointing? and only tell us, dont buy HoT

Please let it be like vanilla Orr.

I pray to the six gods that it will be. Vanilla Orr was the best MMO experience in my whole life, and I surely got some of MMO experience over the last 15 years.

Make it so!

Gilosean.3805:

So I was listening to the regular POI, and heard this:

“unlocking a waypoint after progressing a certain amount”
“unlocking NPC interactions”
“unlocking resource farms”

Does anyone else feel this could be horrific BS? After the screaming over progression-gating traits, skill-lots and other features, they’re going to add more progression-gating?

I mean, ‘unlocking’ waypoints could just mean getting them uncontested, but it doesn’t sound like that to me. It sounds like people need to progress the meta event for the map to be accessible.

The new maps are going to be all 100% Silverwaste style, so I’m bracing myself for fights about people being on the map and but participating in the meta events. We’ve seen enough of that with champ trains and Silverwastes/Dry Top. Some people like wandering, or finding interesting NPC dialogue, or taking absurd screenshots! Sometimes people like doing meta events at one point and not another. But if we have to deal with the meta events to get access to the map, apparently. Why is ANet building an entire expansion solely for a single playstyle?

Other major problems:

• Zones shown seem totally designed around group play. People playing at offhours are SOL.
• Adventures and leaderboards – does anyone else have more info on how these work? Can we disallow our data showing up on leaderboards? Not everyone likes measuring their kitten every play session, and some people like playing alone/have stalkers/etc and don’t want to share their favorite content with all and sundry.

thanks to the people always complaining about just one or two hour content in LS. now they slow down the players to accomplish their expectations for at least xx hours content in the addon.
anet listen to their customers, so better beware what you wish

so the three leyers for maps will be just 3 maps on top of each other?
and if we slip down from the top we die? or is it a “beta” thing?
it will be nice to get ported into the lower map?

it seems an silverwaste style expansion, and i dont like it, my hope was about istanced challenging content, but in this expansion the only things i like is the new pvp mode, but is not enough for spend 50 euro… i played dry top for 5 days and silverwaste just for 1, i dont like to farm event i like to do challenging content with friends, so istance…
i really hope to see something like that, because gw2 is the only game i m playing at moment and i like the combact style, but i really hate silverwaste style and JP… and HoT it seems like that…

Actually, when I hear “unlocking a waypoint”, I think more like the format they used for missions in Factions and Nightfall. For those unfamiliar with GW1, missions in GW1 were specific plot-driven instances that would be the forefather to the Personal Story. However, because of the design of original Tyria, it was possible for players to be “run” to zones of higher levels then they should be in, since all that was needed was for one player to reach the border “portal” for the entire party to be moved, even if they had died. Thus, it would be possible to be run from, say, Ascalon City down to Droknar’s Forge (the “capital city” of the southern shiverpeaks, about 3 or 4 chapters later) without doing the missions in between and thus have a level 2 character in a zone where only level 20 characters should have been.

To counteract this (or at least, I assume so; didn’t hear the interviews of the time), missions were unlocked only through main storyline quests, rather than being run to a zone they shouldn’t be at. As such, it was possible to be in a mission hub outpost, but not even realize it because the player hadn’t yet unlocked the mission. They could still map travel there, but they might think it was just an ordinary outpost.

I imagine the waypoints will be similar to this. Upon entering the zone, there will be one waypoint near the start of the zone, so that players who die won’t have to leave the map. Beyond that, though, they would need to complete certain events or personal instances before the waypoint is even seen. Honestly, the idea of a krewe of asura rushing into an area and establishing a new waypoint amuses me to know end, and we might learn even more about how one is established.

Rognik.2579:

Beyond that, though, they would need to complete certain events or personal instances before the waypoint is even seen.

This is also how I picture it and what I think they mean by “unlocking” a waypoint.

It’s clear that the expansion is about horizontal progression. However, I don’t think that excludes exploration. It’s just that it’s more of a challenge how to get places.

Linken.6345:

Darkness.9732:

The more we have info about the new expansion the more we get disappointed XD I truly hope this trend will change..or no Hot for me sorry ^^

Who are these we, you keep talking about?
Maybe you should go and get a check up so we dont keep happening

Edit
Im glad we havent heard the R word from you yet in this thread tho its and improvement

what about “SADNESS”?!

Well I mean, this IS an RPG. If we’re moving away from the conventional levels and loot for progression, then we’re going to have to unlock something as a part of progressing, making our character not necessarily stronger! but more able.

The way point comment is simple to understand- you can’t reach it without certain skills. Its not locked off and hell a mesmer can probably port you there without the skill.

as per the rest of this, so what? I mean really so freaking what? Oh no I can’t go everywhere in the new zone right away. Well could you do that at level 1 when this game came out? No, you had to earn levels, you had to complete certain things first, to hgain access to content. This is natural progress for a game and the ONLY way complaining about this would make sense is depending on what content is being prevented and how long it takes to be able to obtain it. We do not know the answer to this yet and I highly doubt it will be so painfully slow, its more likely to happen practically naturally and with little effort save for a few things, which again, is how games work.

dobri.7820:

so the three leyers for maps will be just 3 maps on top of each other?
and if we slip down from the top we die? or is it a “beta” thing?
it will be nice to get ported into the lower map?

3 layers =/= maps. We do ont know how many maps other then ‘a small amount’ and thats in comparison to the entire world we have already. We can rightly assume about 3 or 4 though by that statement. The layers however are in reference to each map which is very vertical, you will have 3 distinct layers per map to explore by going up or down without a map change. This could be wrong, sure, but this is whats being implying more so then what you are saying.

Why would there waypoints there anyway? They don’t automagically install themselves now, do they? Somebody had to go install them. Who? When? How? Point being, if there are waypoints, this is not unexplored territory.

I guess it makes about as much sense as hang gliding in a jungle.

Tachenon.5270:

Why would there waypoints there anyway? They don’t automagically install themselves now, do they? Somebody had to go install them. Who? When? How? Point being, if there are waypoints, this is not unexplored territory.

You don’t think the pact fleet had the means with them to install waypoints?

Diovid.9506:

Tachenon.5270:

Why would there waypoints there anyway? They don’t automagically install themselves now, do they? Somebody had to go install them. Who? When? How? Point being, if there are waypoints, this is not unexplored territory.

You don’t think the pact fleet had the means with them to install waypoints?

No, I think the surviving members of the pact fleet are hanging out in the smouldering bits and pieces of ship wreckage on top of the jungle canopy waiting for us to come rescue them.

Diovid.9506:

Tachenon.5270:

Why would there waypoints there anyway? They don’t automagically install themselves now, do they? Somebody had to go install them. Who? When? How? Point being, if there are waypoints, this is not unexplored territory.

You don’t think the pact fleet had the means with them to install waypoints?

The pact fleet was destroyed within minutes of reaching the djungle.

Malediktus.3740:

Diovid.9506:

Tachenon.5270:

Why would there waypoints there anyway? They don’t automagically install themselves now, do they? Somebody had to go install them. Who? When? How? Point being, if there are waypoints, this is not unexplored territory.

You don’t think the pact fleet had the means with them to install waypoints?

The pact fleet was destroyed within minutes of reaching the djungle.

Depends on what you call destroyed. The gameplay shown clearly shows us that at least one group of pact soldiers is still a somewhat organized unit. I’d hazard a guess and say that there are more groups around.

Gilosean.3805:

• Zones shown seem totally designed around group play. People playing at offhours are SOL.

Strictly impossible. Mega Servers have prevented several events from having even a glimmer of hope to exist, such as the Seraph being pushed all the way back in Harathi Hinterlands. With the volunteer’s blessing in place, you’d have to shoot yourself in the foot, repeatedly, with a rocket launcher and then get lucky that a small group had been on the same page as you, just to experience the same incredible camaraderie I received as my first character reached 80.
Starting alone, helping the Seraph push back the Centaur Horde, sometimes an extra person showing up at each new camp taken… Culminating into a grand battle of all the people who’d shown up along the way against the chieftain of the centaurs and falling down, struggling in the difficult fight, but in the end just barely standing in the glory of victory.

Playing at off-hours doesn’t do a thing. I’ve tried.

What?!? You all have a problem with having to walk/run everywhere? As for getting to the different levels, no, you don’t fall down underneath, you have to walk/run there via what ever path leads you down, same with going up, though you will also be able to use the glider once you have enough endurance I presume…from watching the episode.

Off hours, what are those, there is no such thing as off hours, and I’ve been online in NA between Mid-nite and 6 am PST/PDT, still plenty of people in SW to complete events and even Breach/VW.

On one hand, exploration and achievement is highly desirable, and necessitates ‘gating’ of some sort. On the other hand, the biggest problem when GW2 released was tons of content, so many map zones and events, and hardly any of it worth exploring for it’s intrinsic challenge or replay value. So, the problem with this intricate gating system is, it doesn’t address the central point, which is, content needs to offer a unique challenge, or it’s not interesting. And the content you >can< fail in GW2 almost never fails in an interesting way; usually it fails because you don’t have enough people, or, for a few mega-events, you don’t have the hyper-organization required.

That’s quite a contrast to GW1, where the challenges so varied from one map to another, and even more so one dungeon to another, that you could easily wipe if you didn’t adjust your team and builds to meet the challenge.

yanipheonu.5798:

Well I mean, this IS an RPG. If we’re moving away from the conventional levels and loot for progression, then we’re going to have to unlock something as a part of progressing, making our character not necessarily stronger! but more able.

Why?

Having more numbers isn’t an inherent part of an RPG. It’s just a common tactic designers use.

Trock Bronze.9625:

The way point comment is simple to understand- you can’t reach it without certain skills. Its not locked off and hell a mesmer can probably port you there without the skill.

as per the rest of this, so what? I mean really so freaking what? Oh no I can’t go everywhere in the new zone right away. Well could you do that at level 1 when this game came out? No, you had to earn levels, you had to complete certain things first, to hgain access to content. This is natural progress for a game and the ONLY way complaining about this would make sense is depending on what content is being prevented and how long it takes to be able to obtain it. We do not know the answer to this yet and I highly doubt it will be so painfully slow, its more likely to happen practically naturally and with little effort save for a few things, which again, is how games work.

Actually, you could. And you still can. The game currently does not lock players off from going somewhere based on their level.

That freedom was part of the draw for me. If I wanted to go anywhere, I could. It might not be a great choice, but I wasn’t being shoved out of certain content because of arbitrary numbers.

Pikka.6023:

On one hand, exploration and achievement is highly desirable, and necessitates ‘gating’ of some sort.

That’s quite a contrast to GW1, where the challenges so varied from one map to another, and even more so one dungeon to another, that you could easily wipe if you didn’t adjust your team and builds to meet the challenge.

Why do you think we need gating?

Exploration is about finding new places for their own sake. It’s not about bigger numbers, it’s about having fun poking your nose into hidden places. POIs, etc are not exploration, they’re a way to hand out XP besides combat. I’m really glad they’re in the game for that reason, but it’s not the same as exploring. Exploring is looking for cool spots to take screenshots, or learning the stories playing out on the map, identifying hidden secrets or just taking time to slowly investigate every crevice. This kind of play doesn’t mesh with a map full of powerful monsters and group events where everything is trying to kill you. Exploring needs to include at least some time to stop and smell the roses, and the current high level maps don’t really offer that.

High level content doesn’t need to mean ‘constant tension and watching your back’. It doesn’t need to mean ‘run, run in the metaevent treadmill!’. It’s good to have some of those maps for people who enjoy them, but it’s disappointing that ANet is making the entire expansion that way. I don’t find those kinds of maps fun, and so this expansion sounds like it won’t be very fun for me, based on what we know. That’s all I’m saying.

Gilosean.3805:

Pikka.6023:

On one hand, exploration and achievement is highly desirable, and necessitates ‘gating’ of some sort.

That’s quite a contrast to GW1, where the challenges so varied from one map to another, and even more so one dungeon to another, that you could easily wipe if you didn’t adjust your team and builds to meet the challenge.

Why do you think we need gating?

Please. Every game needs some form of gating.

Gilosean.3805:

Why do you think we need gating?

because people consume content like a swarm of locusts and complain afterwards about boredom. how long did it go till the first people came after release and complained about nothing to do, two weeks? so when they dont slow down the players it would be with an addon just a few days.