Guild Wars 2

phys.7689:

no, they arent supposed to be stronger, If elite specs are stronger the whole game balance/variability will go in the garbage

yes it was said they will be horizontal progression = not stronger… but right now I’m not sure if I believe them…

Chronomancer is a straight boost to the Mesmer, not a horizontal progression, he don’t have any adjustments on him, just additions and improvements…

on the other hand, Dragonhunter sounds more like an option, he have mainly changed the class mechanic, but it doesn’t look like a straight upgrade, it’s just different…

so we will see what will be next…

Elite specs should be elite otherwise there’s no point, and anet need that to drive people to buy the xpac. Having said that the guardian elite is definitely not stronger, I doubt I will use it, but the chronomancer has the potential to be mandatory for some parts of the game.

phys.7689:

MelGT.8326:

Elite specializations are ArenaNet’s answer to increasing the level cap, and advancing character progression, in an expansion. Of course they’re going to be an upgrade to a profession. They wouldn’t be called an “elite” specialization otherwise. But calling it “pay-to-win” is just ridiculous. You could say the same about any MMO releasing an expansion that increases the level cap too.

no, they arent supposed to be stronger, If elite specs are stronger the whole game balance/variability will go in the garbage

Nah, even if they’re stronger, they’re still only stronger at what they do, and what they do will always have counterplay. A “bad” class can be the “best” class if it’s the only counter to an otherwise unbeatable build.

Still, they look reasonably balanced anyway, for now. That, and it will be increasingly less of an issue as more elite specs are released. Even if the base classes fall to the wayside, there will still be thousands of variations left to pick from (eventually).

MaXi.3642:

phys.7689:

no, they arent supposed to be stronger, If elite specs are stronger the whole game balance/variability will go in the garbage

yes it was said they will be horizontal progression = not stronger… but right now I’m not sure if I believe them…

Chronomancer is a straight boost to the Mesmer, not a horizontal progression, he don’t have any adjustments on him, just additions and improvements…

on the other hand, Dragonhunter sounds more like an option, he have mainly changed the class mechanic, but it doesn’t look like a straight upgrade, it’s just different…

so we will see what will be next…

chronomancer is giving up Direct DPS/condi/control for versatility and support.
If played excellently, MAYBE chronomancer can equal other builds, but probably not.

to understand mesmer you have to look at the traits, a lot of mesmers capabilities are tied to traits.

Pay2win as a notion will always be directly related to the player character’s ability. The main selling point of an mmo is character progression, whether real or perceived. Both vertical (numbers) and horizontal (options) progression contribute toward making the player feel like they’re moving forward.

This is why you see barely anyone complaining about the fact that the HoT map areas themselves are probably paywalled. Those are world areas, not part of the character.

Regardless of how much of an advantage elite specs give and whether they’re balanced, players will never be okay with having a a part of their ability to develop their characters blocked off. In addition to the fact that elite specs provide a definite increase in utility with many of them filling in the gaps in which the base professions were lacking, they will also likely be more powerful than the base professions, and even if not, they retain a unique identity that the player is denied if he/she does not buy the xpac.

morrolan.9608:

Elite specs should be elite otherwise there’s no point

This is exactly what I mean.
I really hope Anet doesn’t make the mistake of linking the word “elite” to a paywall like this.

There’s also the pvp problem. Yeah, that one’s pretty obvious. It’d be foolhardy to expect a balanced pvp environment with so much disparity between base professions and their elite specs.

And I’d hate to see a situation where a player is kicked from a pug dungeon run for running mesmer instead of chronomancer. Balance or no, a necro with team support will always be better than one without, and a mesmer with alacrity will always be more useful. Keep in mind that though an elite spec character loses out on one base trait spec, they still (correct me if I’m wrong) retain access to all the original skills and class functionality, in addition to their upgrades. Not much of a tradeoff if you ask me.

I am not in favor of having elite specs be paywalled. I will probably buy the xpac regardless of this because I’m looking forward to enjoying all the other content being offered. I understand that Anet needs the money, but I hope they consider the implications I’ve mentioned above of blocking part of character progression. Ideally they find some way to make elite specs available to all players without significantly cutting into their bottom line.

There’s also the possibility of new elite specs arriving outside of HoT, which will then be available to all players. How that works out remains to be seen.

morrolan.9608:

Elite specs should be elite otherwise there’s no point, and anet need that to drive people to buy the xpac. Having said that the guardian elite is definitely not stronger, I doubt I will use it, but the chronomancer has the potential to be mandatory for some parts of the game.

the point is not more power,
its getting something new and different.
its an “elite” specialization because they will be exclusive with one another, and they change mechanics

Crossflip.4390:

I am not in favor of having elite specs be paywalled. I will probably buy the xpac regardless of this because I’m looking forward to enjoying all the other content being offered. I understand that Anet needs the money, but I hope they consider the implications I’ve mentioned above of blocking part of character progression. Ideally they find some way to make elite specs available to all players without significantly cutting into their bottom line.

There’s also the possibility of new elite specs arriving outside of HoT, which will then be available to all players. How that works out remains to be seen.

Elite specs aren’t the only thing you miss out on if you don’t get the expansion. Even still, P2W is quite nebulous, and there isn’t a distinct line separating what is and what isn’t P2W; but I don’t believe GW2 falls into the P2W category even with the expansion.

Would anybody argue that WoW was P2W? That game had so much vertical progression locked behind expansions that it was insane. You couldn’t enjoy the game if you didn’t buy the expansion as the level cap was increased, meaning all the expansion players moved on to new PvE and PvP content. Expansions should not be considered P2W by the nature of what they are and how they differ from DLC or in-game store purchases. Even in WoW, you didn’t get any advantages from buying the expansion, but you did get more access to more things. For HoT, the advantages seem slim at worst and relatively non-existent as a default. It’s not as if you can throw more money towards HoT and get better things for an advantage because everyone is going to pay the same price for it (unless they want the wardrobe packs or whatever).

elite spec isnt even stronger.

anet has no plan in destorying all the builds in game now.

We’ll have to see how often it makes sense to take 3 core trait lines over 2 + elite. If the answer is ‘never’, I agree it is a bit disturbing, although I don’t think this is really a pay-to-win issue.

GW1 actually had a bigger expansion issue with the EOTN PVE skills, which are laughably over-powered.

lighter.2708:

elite spec isnt even stronger.

anet has no plan in destorying all the builds in game now.

Speaking from a PVE mindset, yes they are, at least what we’ve seen so far. I do hope they tone it down to open up options.

Jerus.4350:

lighter.2708:

elite spec isnt even stronger.

anet has no plan in destorying all the builds in game now.

Speaking from a PVE mindset, yes they are, at least what we’ve seen so far. I do hope they tone it down to open up options.

how is chronomancer good for pve.
how is longbow good for pve?

you do realize every single spec is getting huge boost too.

It’s not pay to win. It’s pay and get more possibilities.

Some builds will improve by having the new trait line, but not all of then.

Am pretty sure that the meta will stay meta like the Medidation Hammer Guardian

Mesmer can finaly become meta with the new trait line but we have to wait and see how the new elite speccs can improve the current builds.

Players with Heart of Thorns will have an advantage in the same way as someone in League of Legends with more champions or someone in Yugioh with more cards. The specialisation system was created entirely so that Arenanet can do this without causing players who don’t have the expansion to suffer as much.

Will players with elite specialisations be more powerful? I’d have thought so, if they weren’t changing profession mechanics with elite specs so much that they can’t be combined, dragon hunter makes justice a spear, a future elite spec might make justice a ground targetted bomb, combining these would be a programming nightmare. Elite specs are about uniqueness, not power level.
Will players with multiple elite specialisations be more powerful than players with only one? I highly doubt it, each elite spec should be on par with each other otherwise only one would ever see use and that would be pretty rubbish for everyone.
Will HoT owners have access to items, stat sets and tools in PvE that other players will suffer for not having? Probably, I mean, we’re still waiting on that ferocity primary stat set. But I doubt you’re going to get kicked out of dungeons because you don’t have a stack of mega ogre pet whistles.
Will a player with Heart of Thorns have more fun than a player without it? Unless there’s a bug prevent HoT players from playing, undeniably so.

I’m not gonna lie, you won’t be among the best if you don’t have the expansion, that’s just not how the universe works. But if Arenanet’s track record with GW1 is any indication you should be able to remain competitive in all content available to you without having to buy an expansion.

lighter.2708:

Jerus.4350:

lighter.2708:

elite spec isnt even stronger.

anet has no plan in destorying all the builds in game now.

Speaking from a PVE mindset, yes they are, at least what we’ve seen so far. I do hope they tone it down to open up options.

how is chronomancer good for pve.
how is longbow good for pve?

you do realize every single spec is getting huge boost too.

Chronomancer and damage support mainly, really helped out by how weak current mesmer is, where outside of portal tricks they’re rarely wanted anyways. And you’re not stuck with Longbow on DH, all the damage mods and vuln mixed with either Zeal/Honor or Zeal/virtue, depending on what defensive supports you need.

And I’m very aware of the severe power creep they’re putting in, doesn’t mean there won’t be an imbalance still.

Jerus.4350:

lighter.2708:

elite spec isnt even stronger.

anet has no plan in destorying all the builds in game now.

Speaking from a PVE mindset, yes they are, at least what we’ve seen so far. I do hope they tone it down to open up options.

i disagree.

DH isnt mechanically stronger
and CM isnt mechanically stronger.
CM is party stronger, mostly because alacrity cant be provided elsewhere, and the pve meta bosses last 20 seconds.

if the fight lasted 2 minutes, it would be more of a toss up.

Well in PvE, there will be a clear winner that’s for sure. PvE is about support and dps, which 3 lines will give the most will be the new meta and for now it seem that CM and DH are clear winner. But not by far.

I’m not really an expert with Mesmer, but DH isn’t that more powerful than Virtue or Honor. Virtue give you around 5% damage modifier from UC (25% Aegis uptime) and a 3-5% damage modifier from Power of the Virtuous,

DH is all about the grandmaster trait BGH with give 15% damage modifier + Vulnerability when a foe is tethered by spear of justice.

15% damage modifier + Vulnerability vs 8-10%. It seem that DH is a clear winner. But while Virtue give you a general damage modifier that work for every attack, BGH is a bit more limited. Spear of justice is not a AoE, it’s a single target skill. Yes technically you can get 5 target because it pierce, but in reality it will probably always 1 or 2 targets, maybe 3 if you are lucky. Which mean that a DH guardian in dungeon will be superior against bosses, but a non DH guardian will be better against group of mobs. And we still don’t know how defiant will work now, the vulnerability from BGH may not be necessary.

It was already like that in GW1. If you didn’t have “Profecy/Faction/Nightfall and Gwen”, you didn’t have half of the skills and can’t join any party.

Thaddeus.4891:

Well in PvE, there will be a clear winner that’s for sure. PvE is about support and dps, which 3 lines will give the most will be the new meta and for now it seem that CM and DH are clear winner. But not by far.

I’m not really an expert with Mesmer, but DH isn’t that more powerful than Virtue or Honor. Virtue give you around 5% damage modifier from UC (25% Aegis uptime) and a 3-5% damage modifier from Power of the Virtuous,

DH is all about the grandmaster trait BGH with give 15% damage modifier + Vulnerability when a foe is tethered by spear of justice.

15% damage modifier + Vulnerability vs 8-10%. It seem that DH is a clear winner. But while Virtue give you a general damage modifier that work for every attack, BGH is a bit more limited. Spear of justice is not a AoE, it’s a single target skill. Yes technically you can get 5 target because it pierce, but in reality it will probably always 1 or 2 targets, maybe 3 if you are lucky. Which mean that a DH guardian in dungeon will be superior against bosses, but a non DH guardian will be better against group of mobs. And we still don’t know how defiant will work now, the vulnerability from BGH may not be necessary.

You’re forgetting the 10% on cripple trait. 10% + 15%, HUGE burst increase.

And phys you have a point, but do you think they’re going increase enemy HP by like 500%? If not then we’re still going to be int he same situation. There’s a reason enemies don’t have that level of health currently, and I don’t think they’ll throw less optimized groups into 10min fights(or even poorly executed ones into 20 minutes) just to get optimized groups to have a minute or two fights.

Jerus.4350:

Thaddeus.4891:

Well in PvE, there will be a clear winner that’s for sure. PvE is about support and dps, which 3 lines will give the most will be the new meta and for now it seem that CM and DH are clear winner. But not by far.

I’m not really an expert with Mesmer, but DH isn’t that more powerful than Virtue or Honor. Virtue give you around 5% damage modifier from UC (25% Aegis uptime) and a 3-5% damage modifier from Power of the Virtuous,

DH is all about the grandmaster trait BGH with give 15% damage modifier + Vulnerability when a foe is tethered by spear of justice.

15% damage modifier + Vulnerability vs 8-10%. It seem that DH is a clear winner. But while Virtue give you a general damage modifier that work for every attack, BGH is a bit more limited. Spear of justice is not a AoE, it’s a single target skill. Yes technically you can get 5 target because it pierce, but in reality it will probably always 1 or 2 targets, maybe 3 if you are lucky. Which mean that a DH guardian in dungeon will be superior against bosses, but a non DH guardian will be better against group of mobs. And we still don’t know how defiant will work now, the vulnerability from BGH may not be necessary.

You’re forgetting the 10% on cripple trait. 10% + 15%, HUGE burst increase.

And phys you have a point, but do you think they’re going increase enemy HP by like 500%? If not then we’re still going to be int he same situation. There’s a reason enemies don’t have that level of health currently, and I don’t think they’ll throw less optimized groups into 10min fights(or even poorly executed ones into 20 minutes) just to get optimized groups to have a minute or two fights.

my guess is they are going to restructure things a lot

I think there is going to be some big changes in PVE enemies, and possibly in might stacking, but its just conjecture.

Nerfing might stacking (outside of PS war) would be a nice way to dumb down the game to even people out. If Unshakable leaves and they just have breakbar, then Vuln should be silly easy to upkeep as well.

I still don’t see them raising the HP of enemies by 10X to make burst ineffective. People are already downing things like Lupi in 15s. I think only HoTW bosses take any real time and even they are able to be blown up pretty well.

I do not believe the elite specs will offer any noticeable advantage in PvE.

Continuum Shift only effects you, so only really boosts your own damage/survival. And only for one burst every 60 odd seconds. Not a massive advantage.

The DH virtues are no more or less advantageous then the guardians. The spear no longer grants a benefit to your allies and resolve and courage now require more effort to use effectively. It is a trade off really, they may be slightly more powerful, but you need to work more to make them work. The guardian virtue actives are pretty much fire and forget skills, like shouts. They effect a large area, so need less aiming.

The big difference, I believe, will be noticed in PvP. Maybe not so much with the DH, but certainly with the chrono’s CS F5 skill. That said, I am sure once players get used to how CS works it will not be as big a problem as it seems on paper. And I am sure if it is, Anet will balance things. They said themselves that they do not want elite specs to be stronger than core specs, so I expect there will be a far bit of balancing during beta and post HoT release.

Well to be honest chronomancer is pay2win unless for example 5th shatter replaces 4th. Then ok. Else we’re looking at non chronomancers having 4 shatters, chronomancers having same 4 + 5th. That’s not an alternative playstyle, that’s straight up upgrade.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Well to be honest chronomancer is pay2win unless for example 5th shatter replaces 4th. Then ok. Else we’re looking at non chronomancers having 4 shatters, chronomancers having same 4 + 5th. That’s not an alternative playstyle, that’s straight up upgrade.

No, it’s not definitely an upgrade, though it could be. Expansions are Buy2Play, just like this game, not Pay2Win. There is a difference.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Well to be honest chronomancer is pay2win unless for example 5th shatter replaces 4th. Then ok. Else we’re looking at non chronomancers having 4 shatters, chronomancers having same 4 + 5th. That’s not an alternative playstyle, that’s straight up upgrade.

Yes, because the only difference between chronomancers and normal mesmers is that f5.

Jerus.4350:

You’re forgetting the 10% on cripple trait. 10% + 15%, HUGE burst increase.

I’m not forgetting it, i’m ignoring it. The cripple uptime in a dungeon meta will be terribly low. We’ll see when we’ll see when everything is out.

Jerus.4350:

Nerfing might stacking (outside of PS war) would be a nice way to dumb down the game to even people out. If Unshakable leaves and they just have breakbar, then Vuln should be silly easy to upkeep as well.

I still don’t see them raising the HP of enemies by 10X to make burst ineffective. People are already downing things like Lupi in 15s. I think only HoTW bosses take any real time and even they are able to be blown up pretty well.

Don’t think they should nerf might stacking, they already did it. But I guess that dropping fury to a 15%, making vulnerability harder to max, maybe nerfing a bit the banner of the warrior. Those little thing could help. If they just make several small nerf and don’t make these stuff almost useless it should be ok. It will make the nuking of bosses a bit more difficult for dungeon team, but not creating 20min fight for random pugs.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Well to be honest chronomancer is pay2win unless for example 5th shatter replaces 4th. Then ok. Else we’re looking at non chronomancers having 4 shatters, chronomancers having same 4 + 5th. That’s not an alternative playstyle, that’s straight up upgrade.

You sacrifice another trait line to get that 5th shatters. You limit your capability in other portion of the game to get that 5th shatter.

I think we’ll find ways to get cripple in there. And I’m not proposing a nerf to might just stating it.

Thaddeus.4891:

Jerus.4350:

You’re forgetting the 10% on cripple trait. 10% + 15%, HUGE burst increase.

I’m not forgetting it, i’m ignoring it. The cripple uptime in a dungeon meta will be terribly low. We’ll see when we’ll see when everything is out.

I dunno. Every boss I fight in dungeons seems to be permanently crippled while I’m fighting it.

This is one of the most absurd things I’ve ever read. I don’t know how anyone could logically arrive at this conclusion.

1.) It would appear some people’s definition of ‘pw2’ is as horrible as their definition of exploit. Releasing an expansion with new classes is NOT a p2win scenario, and that’s pretty much what the elite specs equate to.

2.) Everything we’ve seen right now is in Beta form. Anet has stressed this, anyone who played the first beta or the PAX demo know it. Why you refuse to is beyond me.

3.) There will ALWAYS be something broken when something new is introduced into the game. Anet’s QA simply can’t match the possibilities of what a million+ players can find. Anyone who has played the Revenant thus far knows exactly what I’m talking about. Double Elites, perma stability, insane resistance uptime…its not even close to finished.

4.) Boohoo you have to pay for something. That’s pretty much what this is about and it’s pretty obvious. Pretty much the same as everyone else crying the expansion should be free (which is ridiculous). The game doesn’t develop itself and the people doing it have to get paid a salary. They HAVE to make money.

Uhm, some people really don’t get pay 2 win.
I should know, i have played some of them long ago.

But just to sum up. Gw2 is not pay to win.

GW2 is not pay to win.
If you want to see what is p2w, get any cellphone game, I haven’t seen one that isn’t p2w so far… See the difference between that and GW2.

When HoT starts, there will be balancing issues, of course, and we will have some balancing issues for a long time, since when they buff/nerf one thing, they will realize that now they need to buff/nerf another thing and so on.

I don’t think that HoT specializations will be OP compared to the old classes, and I don’t think Anet wants them to be either. They wil have advantages, and somehow even be more powerful (let’s go to the most basic thing: the specializations will have a new weapon each, with new skills. So ignoring every other change like traits and skills, we can say for an example that the dragonhunter will at the very least be like a guardian but that can use a longbow, which actually is an advantage) but having an advantage like being more versatile is not the same as being OP, and the access to the bow won’t mean that a dragonhunter cannot be beaten by a guardian.

phys.7689:

MelGT.8326:

Elite specializations are ArenaNet’s answer to increasing the level cap, and advancing character progression, in an expansion. Of course they’re going to be an upgrade to a profession. They wouldn’t be called an “elite” specialization otherwise. But calling it “pay-to-win” is just ridiculous. You could say the same about any MMO releasing an expansion that increases the level cap too.

no, they arent supposed to be stronger, If elite specs are stronger the whole game balance/variability will go in the garbage

Again, it depends, there’s 2 models they might be going with.

“Choose between elite Specs” and “choose between specs”

If it’s the former, balance will be a little fubar until they get at least 1 more elite spec out per class. —- well in a sense, in another sense it will just be like how it is now for people that have HoT, but with a different label.

phys.7689:

MelGT.8326:

Elite specializations are ArenaNet’s answer to increasing the level cap, and advancing character progression, in an expansion. Of course they’re going to be an upgrade to a profession. They wouldn’t be called an “elite” specialization otherwise. But calling it “pay-to-win” is just ridiculous. You could say the same about any MMO releasing an expansion that increases the level cap too.

no, they arent supposed to be stronger, If elite specs are stronger the whole game balance/variability will go in the garbage

I don’t know what post you read, but it wasn’t mine. I never said elite specs were “stronger”. I just said they were a form of character progression. Read the quote you’re quoting before putting words into peoples’ mouths.

Expansions move the game forward, if you don’t buy it you should honestly just stop playing, there won’t be anything left for you. This is the case for every MMO in history and this one won’t be any different.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Expansions move the game forward, if you don’t buy it you should honestly just stop playing, there won’t be anything left for you. This is the case for every MMO in history and this one won’t be any different.

I seriously don’t know what you’re talking about. Sure, you won’t have access to new content or the elite specializations or the revenant but other than that you’re fine if you’re not buying HoT.

You still get the new trait system, you get the new borderlands map, you get the new pvp map, you get any other future QoL update, balance update and feature update. In addition, you should still be competitive in dungeons/fractals, wvw and pvp. Because there is no vertical progression (i.e. new gear levels and new character levels) GW2 is different from other MMOs.

MelGT.8326:

phys.7689:

MelGT.8326:

Elite specializations are ArenaNet’s answer to increasing the level cap, and advancing character progression, in an expansion. Of course they’re going to be an upgrade to a profession. They wouldn’t be called an “elite” specialization otherwise. But calling it “pay-to-win” is just ridiculous. You could say the same about any MMO releasing an expansion that increases the level cap too.

no, they arent supposed to be stronger, If elite specs are stronger the whole game balance/variability will go in the garbage

I don’t know what post you read, but it wasn’t mine. I never said elite specs were “stronger”. I just said they were a form of character progression. Read the quote you’re quoting before putting words into peoples’ mouths.

you made an analogy with level cap, which is a power boost
you said elites are an upgrade, which implies better.

if thats not what you intended to imply thats fine, but thats what your post suggests

Diovid.9506:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Expansions move the game forward, if you don’t buy it you should honestly just stop playing, there won’t be anything left for you. This is the case for every MMO in history and this one won’t be any different.

I seriously don’t know what you’re talking about. Sure, you won’t have access to new content or the elite specializations or the revenant but other than that you’re fine if you’re not buying HoT.

You still get the new trait system, you get the new borderlands map, you get the new pvp map, you get any other future QoL update, balance update and feature update. In addition, you should still be competitive in dungeons/fractals, wvw and pvp. Because there is no vertical progression (i.e. new gear levels and new character levels) GW2 is different from other MMOs.

This is one thing Guild Wars 2 has going for it. After the expansion has dropped, new players won’t feel obligated to drop $80-100+ for the game+plus expansion to be relevant. It looks like most if not all of the features of HoT are for level 80 characters, with nothing being added or changed in the “vanilla” game. This way new players can just buy the base game and see if they enjoy it then buy the expansion. Kinda seems like the opposite of “pay-to-win” to me.

Diovid.9506:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Expansions move the game forward, if you don’t buy it you should honestly just stop playing, there won’t be anything left for you. This is the case for every MMO in history and this one won’t be any different.

I seriously don’t know what you’re talking about. Sure, you won’t have access to new content or the elite specializations or the revenant but other than that you’re fine if you’re not buying HoT.

You still get the new trait system, you get the new borderlands map, you get the new pvp map, you get any other future QoL update, balance update and feature update. In addition, you should still be competitive in dungeons/fractals, wvw and pvp. Because there is no vertical progression (i.e. new gear levels and new character levels) GW2 is different from other MMOs.

Do you really think the best rewards are going to be found in the same 3 year old dungeons? Fractals will likely stay relevant, I will admit that, but the best rewards, the best content and the majority of players will be in the new zones. It won’t be that you can’t play the old content, it is that 99% of the players won’t be there anymore.

We’ll see ont he fractal bit, my hopes aren’t very high with the level of power creep we’re seeing.

Jerus.4350:

We’ll see ont he fractal bit, my hopes aren’t very high with the level of power creep we’re seeing.

I think you’re overselling the power creep a little.

They could as simple as raw-scale the crap out of post-50 and power creep would be the least of our problems.

Bloodsrain.9132:

They never said that Heart of Thorns was going to be needed to pay for in the first place >….>

Ahem
Q: Is the expansion “buy to play”?

A: Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is a paid expansion to Guild Wars 2, but once you buy it, there are no subscription fees. This means that you can continue playing and access future updates for Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns with no subscription fee.

https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/105801626-Guild-Wars-2-Heart-of-Thorns-FAQ

Sooooo..yes its buy to play…and you wont get elite specializations or quite a bit of the new stuff that comes with it unless you buy it. WVW and the new pvp game mode not included obviously!

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

We’ll see ont he fractal bit, my hopes aren’t very high with the level of power creep we’re seeing.

I think you’re overselling the power creep a little.

They could as simple as raw-scale the crap out of post-50 and power creep would be the least of our problems.

I don’t think so at all. Guard will be able to maintain the support it has while gaining a huge amount of damage. Engi will be able to raise it’s support a ton while likely increasing it’s damage a little. Ele will get slightly better damage with staff, though it’s support options will drop a tad, but staff is already the go to with such high damage. Warrior is just going to be amazing damage while providing 25stacks of might. Only Guardian in that set have we seen the Elite specialization which if goes unchanged will be even more damage on top. Thief is also going to see a boost if the traits go live as is.

But yeah, if we get post 50 fractals that may help, but have they confirmed that? I may have missed it but wasn’t aware of any confirmation on what is to happen with fractals other than specializations, which again I worry will just result in some power creep.

But, you do know me, pessimistic to the end so maybe I am, but everything I’ve seen has pushed me in that direction, it’s not completely unfounded pessimism.

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

We’ll see ont he fractal bit, my hopes aren’t very high with the level of power creep we’re seeing.

I think you’re overselling the power creep a little.

They could as simple as raw-scale the crap out of post-50 and power creep would be the least of our problems.

I don’t think so at all. Guard will be able to maintain the support it has while gaining a huge amount of damage. Only Guardian in that set have we seen the Elite specialization which if goes unchanged will be even more damage on top.

The specialization isn’t giving us large amount of damage. In fact, damage has already been increased across the board thanks to all the damage modifiers they’re giving us.

You can’t stand toe-to-toe against some one with the Bow alone. It’s mainly used as a cc, control weapon with mediocre damage output. Similar to a Warrior’s Bow except DH will offer more support.

The biggest buffs in the Specialization tree is going to be the F1 changes and condi changes.

• Blocking attacks powers your F1 passive, making your next attack inflict burns.
• Trap hits inflict bleeds
• F1’s Active pulses burns instead of applying a single target burn effect.

Everything else is pretty much generic traits that may or may not be worth taking. So no, it’s not going to be pay to win.

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

We’ll see ont he fractal bit, my hopes aren’t very high with the level of power creep we’re seeing.

I think you’re overselling the power creep a little.

They could as simple as raw-scale the crap out of post-50 and power creep would be the least of our problems.

I don’t think so at all. Guard will be able to maintain the support it has while gaining a huge amount of damage. Engi will be able to raise it’s support a ton while likely increasing it’s damage a little. Ele will get slightly better damage with staff, though it’s support options will drop a tad, but staff is already the go to with such high damage. Warrior is just going to be amazing damage while providing 25stacks of might. Only Guardian in that set have we seen the Elite specialization which if goes unchanged will be even more damage on top. Thief is also going to see a boost if the traits go live as is.

But yeah, if we get post 50 fractals that may help, but have they confirmed that? I may have missed it but wasn’t aware of any confirmation on what is to happen with fractals other than specializations, which again I worry will just result in some power creep.

But, you do know me, pessimistic to the end so maybe I am, but everything I’ve seen has pushed me in that direction, it’s not completely unfounded pessimism.

Numbers are far from final. Saying anything is a huge amount of damage is seeing things in a vacuum with no comparison and also assuming nothing will change. Are you really that naive?

Ralanost.8913:

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

We’ll see ont he fractal bit, my hopes aren’t very high with the level of power creep we’re seeing.

I think you’re overselling the power creep a little.

They could as simple as raw-scale the crap out of post-50 and power creep would be the least of our problems.

I don’t think so at all. Guard will be able to maintain the support it has while gaining a huge amount of damage. Engi will be able to raise it’s support a ton while likely increasing it’s damage a little. Ele will get slightly better damage with staff, though it’s support options will drop a tad, but staff is already the go to with such high damage. Warrior is just going to be amazing damage while providing 25stacks of might. Only Guardian in that set have we seen the Elite specialization which if goes unchanged will be even more damage on top. Thief is also going to see a boost if the traits go live as is.

But yeah, if we get post 50 fractals that may help, but have they confirmed that? I may have missed it but wasn’t aware of any confirmation on what is to happen with fractals other than specializations, which again I worry will just result in some power creep.

But, you do know me, pessimistic to the end so maybe I am, but everything I’ve seen has pushed me in that direction, it’s not completely unfounded pessimism.

Numbers are far from final. Saying anything is a huge amount of damage is seeing things in a vacuum with no comparison and also assuming nothing will change. Are you really that naive?

Naive? I think it’s more just my lack of faith in this game. I’ll refer back to my last comment in the quoted.

To elaborate on that a little, I think some of the ideas are awesome, but if they don’t reign in the power creep, I think they’re going in the wrong direction. But, if the powers that be want to push people to get the expansion through the promise of increased power (would not be the first game to do that at all) then so shall it be.

Saiyan.1704:

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

We’ll see ont he fractal bit, my hopes aren’t very high with the level of power creep we’re seeing.

I think you’re overselling the power creep a little.

They could as simple as raw-scale the crap out of post-50 and power creep would be the least of our problems.

I don’t think so at all. Guard will be able to maintain the support it has while gaining a huge amount of damage. Only Guardian in that set have we seen the Elite specialization which if goes unchanged will be even more damage on top.

The specialization isn’t giving us large amount of damage. In fact, damage has already been increased across the board thanks to all the damage modifiers they’re giving us.

You can’t stand toe-to-toe against some one with the Bow alone. It’s mainly used as a cc, control weapon with mediocre damage output. Similar to a Warrior’s Bow except DH will offer more support.

The biggest buffs in the Specialization tree is going to be the F1 changes and condi changes.

• Blocking attacks powers your F1 passive, making your next attack inflict burns.
• Trap hits inflict bleeds
• F1’s Active pulses burns instead of applying a single target burn effect.

Everything else is pretty much generic traits that may or may not be worth taking. So no, it’s not going to be pay to win.

I have 0 intention of bringing a Bow into PVE, it’s just the traits and utilities I’d be grabbing. Though it sounds like you’re speaking from a more PVP focused stance, what you quoted is discussing Fractals specifically. In which case the traits that I’m concerned with are the damage modifiers mainly. We’re looking at the potential of like 50%+ in damage modifiers from builds.

P2W? Bro, have you played World of Tanks or Heroes and Generals before? You’re saying GW2 is P2W? Do you have any idea how off base and hyperbolic you sound to us?

I’m a fairly invested Heroes and Generals player. I’ve spent at least 120$ just getting my account baseline playable. You have to pay for every bullet you fire out of a rifle, every shell out of tank, every grenade you throw.

If you think GW2 is p2w you have no idea how much worse some games are. Honestly it’s insulting considering how little GW2 actually costs compared to the shear amount of content available for free.

Shame on you. You can’t save $50 up by the time Thorns comes out? You’ve had literally years now to save up. You still have several months to save the $50 if you even tried.

Jerus.4350:

Ralanost.8913:

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

We’ll see ont he fractal bit, my hopes aren’t very high with the level of power creep we’re seeing.

I think you’re overselling the power creep a little.

They could as simple as raw-scale the crap out of post-50 and power creep would be the least of our problems.

I don’t think so at all. Guard will be able to maintain the support it has while gaining a huge amount of damage. Engi will be able to raise it’s support a ton while likely increasing it’s damage a little. Ele will get slightly better damage with staff, though it’s support options will drop a tad, but staff is already the go to with such high damage. Warrior is just going to be amazing damage while providing 25stacks of might. Only Guardian in that set have we seen the Elite specialization which if goes unchanged will be even more damage on top. Thief is also going to see a boost if the traits go live as is.

But yeah, if we get post 50 fractals that may help, but have they confirmed that? I may have missed it but wasn’t aware of any confirmation on what is to happen with fractals other than specializations, which again I worry will just result in some power creep.

But, you do know me, pessimistic to the end so maybe I am, but everything I’ve seen has pushed me in that direction, it’s not completely unfounded pessimism.

Numbers are far from final. Saying anything is a huge amount of damage is seeing things in a vacuum with no comparison and also assuming nothing will change. Are you really that naive?

Naive? I think it’s more just my lack of faith in this game. I’ll refer back to my last comment in the quoted.

To elaborate on that a little, I think some of the ideas are awesome, but if they don’t reign in the power creep, I think they’re going in the wrong direction. But, if the powers that be want to push people to get the expansion through the promise of increased power (would not be the first game to do that at all) then so shall it be.

What power creep? There are no new levels, there is no new tier of gear. Elite specs will be on par with core trait lines. If the numbers look large in the ready up videos, maybe it’s the same for the current traits/specs? Don’t assume the worst when you have zero information.

HoT can only be considered Pay2Win if the counter-to-specializations meta only exists within other class HoT specializations. But if done right, base core-game builds will be able to complete and/or be meta.

The problem probably won’t be based via P2W as much as just core class mechanic issues being put on back burner over new HoT balancing once launched.

TL;DR Real concern should be that HoT will likely put vanilla-class issues on back burner over new HoT Specialization issues.

Artaz.3819:

HoT can only be considered Pay2Win if the counter-to-specializations meta only exists within other class HoT specializations. But if done right, base core-game builds will be able to complete and/or be meta.

The problem probably won’t be based via P2W as much as just core class mechanic issues being put on back burner over new HoT balancing once launched.

TL;DR Real concern should be that HoT will likely put vanilla-class issues on back burner over new HoT Specialization issues.

It’s not based on Pay2Win at all. In Pay2Win, somebody can continually invest money into the game to the point where doing so both exceeds a reasonable amount of money for other players and gives them an objective advantage in doing so. Even if the elite specs gave a clear advantage, the fact of the matter is that the expansion will have a set price. Even if somebody wanted to throw $1000 at the expansion, they could not; they would only be able to pay the $30-$60 for it and the rest could go to the gem store for vanity items. When everyone has a reasonable limit placed on themselves via an expansion, nobody has an unfair advantage because everyone can do it.

Mobile games like Clash of Clans or Game of War are Pay2Win because you can literally throw thousands of dollars at the game and be objectively better off than anyone else. It becomes a matter of “who can spend the most money” rather than the expansion principle of “whoever wants to spend this set amount one time”.