Guild Wars 2

1. point blank on my LB & concussion shot on the SB
2. I use an ascended zerker LB/SB combo and never pick up a frost bow

Nothing is more annoying than to run across something where the CC skills do nothing to the break bar.

Sird.4536:

Then the average player must be lower than what I expected.

And herein lies the incredibly annoying but definitely necessary cause for nearly every [dumb] feature (or lack thereof) that A-net has ever implemented.

There are so many versions of CC in this thread its funny as.. And perfectly sums up the issue at hand as well ..

Sird.4536:

Sird.4536:

Then the average player must be lower than what I expected.

And herein lies the incredibly annoying but definitely necessary cause for nearly every [dumb] feature (or lack thereof) that A-net has ever implemented.

They aren’t dumb, they just don’t care or can’t be bothered, also a large amount have no clue but that group is 100% on Anet.

They should list the defiance damage on skills so new players will know how to deal defiance damage.

CC is not visible to players, and not intuitive enough. It doesn’t help that you can pretty much coast through the game without ever using it or that the CC functions are written in this light gray font that screams “useless mechanic you can ignore”. Why even have it ingame in that case?

In their ever wonderful wisdom the devs strived to make CC “complex” and “deep”. Which, much like a lot of features, was left half done.

“look all these fun, interesting and different kinds of CC, this is so god kitten ed fun!” they hope you would say. Instead players just say “durrr, is bleed a CC??”

that’s the problem. What the heck is CC to a new player?

Just get over this fascination to make a simple mechanic annoyingly complex and stop pretending it’s some sort of deep aspect of the game. consolidate it into one easy-to-understand function that doesn’t have to sacrifice a build for CC, and that doesn’t leave a new player saying “I bleeded the enemy why is bar not down???”

Burtakus.1839:

CC is not visible to players, and not intuitive enough. It doesn’t help that you can pretty much coast through the game without ever using it or that the CC functions are written in this light gray font that screams “useless mechanic you can ignore”. Why even have it ingame in that case?

In their ever wonderful wisdom the devs strived to make CC “complex” and “deep”. Which, much like a lot of features, was left half done.

“look all these fun, interesting and different kinds of CC, this is so god kitten ed fun!” they hope you would say. Instead players just say “durrr, is bleed a CC??”

that’s the problem. What the heck is CC to a new player?

Just get over this fascination to make a simple mechanic annoyingly complex and stop pretending it’s some sort of deep aspect of the game. consolidate it into one easy-to-understand function that doesn’t have to sacrifice a build for CC, and that doesn’t leave a new player saying “I bleeded the enemy why is bar not down???”

Its not new, the system that you have to use a number of cc for an effect (bring down stacks and then the next cc worked) was here before. It was more difficult to handle, especially with randoms and no communication. They make it easier and expand it to more bosses in open world. Now just a lot of people seems to notice it the first time.

Ramoth.9064:

They should list the defiance damage on skills so new players will know how to deal defiance damage.

This would be a simple feature that would help not just new players, but veterans as well. All CC effects and conditions have fixed defiance damage, but you can’t see the exact amount anywhere within the game. Having the same kind of visibility for defiance damage that direct damage and condition damage have would go a long way.

As a side note, a select few professions have much more potent CC abilities available to them than others when it comes to defiance damage (eg, Mesmer, Revenant). This kind of inbalance is not healthy for the concept of defiance bars.

Can anyone tell me what CC a Daredevil gets, i’m not seeing any at all, bare in mind new players or Returnees like me have yet to even master all their specs so all the new skills aren’t accessible to me yet (in all classes)

Sird.4536:

Then the average player must be lower than what I expected.

Then your expectations were really high. Think how many readers this forum has. Compare that to the game population. Realize, than a person that doesn’t even read official forums is even less likely to read anything else about the game

Sird.4536:

To be fair it has been months since break bars were introduced so I would have guess players would have figured out what to do.

On most mobs breakbars do not show up for only for a few seconds, and you don’t need to time cc’s. They most likely go down just from slowness-on-attack mesmers and knockback rangers in the crowd. On others not breaking the bars just make the fight slower to what it could be, but doesn’t really change it from how it was before the defiance was removed.

Sartharina.3542:

Yeah. I’ve been learning what my class’s "CC"s are, but It’s really kitten hard to figure out what counts for breaking the Breakbars or not.So far, all I’ve confirmed are Stun and Daze are “CC” skills, but Immobilize and Cripple (The ones I have more access to most of the time) apparently aren’t.

The situation is not helped by breakbar on different mobs reacting differently to some cc skills. In extreme cases some mobs even have complete immunities (Bloomhunger for example is immune to any immobilizes, knockbacks, knockdowns, and pulls – they don’t affect its breakbar at all) to selected control effects.

Okay, to keep it simple for people who don’t really understand fully yet. When I see someone say “CC” does that mean I should use skills that I know reduce the break bar or something?

Vyrulisse.1246:

Okay, to keep it simple for people who don’t really understand fully yet. When I see someone say “CC” does that mean I should use skills that I know reduce the break bar or something?

Yes

Yes, but sometimes it might not reduce the breakbar, depending upon the particular boss and the particular skill and, assuming others are also CC’ing, it will be hard for you to tell whether your particular attack did any good.

DoctorDing.5890:

Yes, but sometimes it might not reduce the breakbar, depending upon the particular boss and the particular skill and, assuming others are also CC’ing, it will be hard for you to tell whether your particular attack did any good.

That is true but until I memorize when to use what and where, I guess it doesn’t hurt to try.

I came into this thread because I’ve seen people just saying “CC” randomly and like others assumed it meant crowd control, so it’s nice to learn what it really means. Now I just gotta memorize the big stuff. I figured out that the “break bar” was important to destroy on my own I just never knew the term for reducing it.

The average player doesn’t understand when you are raging “use cc” in chat. All they will do is wonder for a second what is he about and then carry on doing their things. Many questions are unanswered unless really trying hard to look for them. “Oh that’s a nice blue bar, let me hover my cursor on it to see what it is… Well this doesn’t say much at all, I guess it’s just fluff.”

Did the average player read every hot blog about break bars? No.
Does he go to the wiki to find out things instead of playing the game? No.
Does he understand what you are raging in chat? No.

Conclusion: Breaking the breakbar fails.

Dante.1508:

Can anyone tell me what CC a Daredevil gets, i’m not seeing any at all, bare in mind new players or Returnees like me have yet to even master all their specs so all the new skills aren’t accessible to me yet (in all classes)

It’s in the skills’ descriptions with a few exceptions

Soft CC
Disabling Shot
Weakening Charge
Dust Strike
Sword AA
Dagger AA when traited with Lotus Poison
Shadow Shot
Distracting Daggers
Black Powder
Blinding Powder
Needle Trap
Caltrops
Devourer Venom
Ice Drake Venom

Hard CC
Pistol Whip
Headshot
Tripwire
Scorpion Wire
Reflexive Strike from Bandit’s Defense
Distracting Daggers
Basilisk Venom
Thieves Guild – the female thief summoned will use Scorpion Wire

Ambush – this could be either type of CC depending on if it summons a male or female thief

Khisanth.2948:

Dante.1508:

Can anyone tell me what CC a Daredevil gets, i’m not seeing any at all, bare in mind new players or Returnees like me have yet to even master all their specs so all the new skills aren’t accessible to me yet (in all classes)

It’s in the skills’ descriptions with a few exceptions

Soft CC
Disabling Shot
Weakening Charge
Dust Strike
Sword AA
Dagger AA when traited with Lotus Poison
Shadow Shot
Distracting Daggers
Black Powder
Blinding Powder
Needle Trap
Caltrops
Devourer Venom
Ice Drake Venom

Hard CC
Pistol Whip
Headshot
Tripwire
Scorpion Wire
Reflexive Strike from Bandit’s Defense
Distracting Daggers
Basilisk Venom
Thieves Guild – the female thief summoned will use Scorpion Wire

Ambush – this could be either type of CC depending on if it summons a male or female thief

DD elite as well, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impact_Strike (it’s 3 attacks, the first 2 are cc’s, 3rd one you don’t need to use as it is mainly for finishing players in spvp/wvw)

They should add a breakbar tutorial event in the first HoT mission. Some low damage boss before you arrive at the first cutscene in the second story mission that’s invincible when not broken, like a vine with a wall that prevents further movement forward.

just hook it up to the help tips UI to point out “HEY, SEE THIS BLUE BAR? You need to use crowd control effects to empty it to stun certain powerful foes!”

FalconOSeven.2364:

Khisanth.2948:

Dante.1508:

Can anyone tell me what CC a Daredevil gets, i’m not seeing any at all, bare in mind new players or Returnees like me have yet to even master all their specs so all the new skills aren’t accessible to me yet (in all classes)

It’s in the skills’ descriptions with a few exceptions

Soft CC
Disabling Shot
Weakening Charge
Dust Strike
Sword AA
Dagger AA when traited with Lotus Poison
Shadow Shot
Distracting Daggers
Black Powder
Blinding Powder
Needle Trap
Caltrops
Devourer Venom
Ice Drake Venom

Hard CC
Pistol Whip
Headshot
Tripwire
Scorpion Wire
Reflexive Strike from Bandit’s Defense
Distracting Daggers
Basilisk Venom
Thieves Guild – the female thief summoned will use Scorpion Wire

Ambush – this could be either type of CC depending on if it summons a male or female thief

DD elite as well, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impact_Strike (it’s 3 attacks, the first 2 are cc’s, 3rd one you don’t need to use as it is mainly for finishing players in spvp/wvw)

So only two on DD, i must use daggers pistols or obscure secondary skills switching and swapping… very annoying i use none of the above ever..

I use Dust strike and weaken charge all the time and they do nothing.

Btw they are thief skills in general.. I haven’t unlocked the elite yet.

2? One of us seem to have problem counting …

Dante.1508:

FalconOSeven.2364:

Khisanth.2948:

Dante.1508:

Can anyone tell me what CC a Daredevil gets, i’m not seeing any at all, bare in mind new players or Returnees like me have yet to even master all their specs so all the new skills aren’t accessible to me yet (in all classes)

It’s in the skills’ descriptions with a few exceptions

Soft CC
Disabling Shot
Weakening Charge
Dust Strike
Sword AA
Dagger AA when traited with Lotus Poison
Shadow Shot
Distracting Daggers
Black Powder
Blinding Powder
Needle Trap
Caltrops
Devourer Venom
Ice Drake Venom

Hard CC
Pistol Whip
Headshot
Tripwire
Scorpion Wire
Reflexive Strike from Bandit’s Defense
Distracting Daggers
Basilisk Venom
Thieves Guild – the female thief summoned will use Scorpion Wire

Ambush – this could be either type of CC depending on if it summons a male or female thief

DD elite as well, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impact_Strike (it’s 3 attacks, the first 2 are cc’s, 3rd one you don’t need to use as it is mainly for finishing players in spvp/wvw)

So only two on DD, i must use daggers pistols or obscure secondary skills switching and swapping… very annoying i use none of the above ever..

I use Dust strike and weaken charge all the time and they do nothing.

Btw they are thief skills in general.. I haven’t unlocked the elite yet.

Along with the Daredevil elite skill (which is 2 CC skills in one, plus finisher if relevant), we also have Palm Strike (2s stun) in chain after Fist Flurry. Reflexive Strike (2s knockdown), in chain after Bandits Defense. And Distracting Daggers, thrown to interrupt enemies (1/4s daze per cast, 3 per use)

So no, not “only two” on DD. Personally though I only equip power+precision signets with either Fist Flurry or Bandits defense.

Many kids nowadays. Some don’t know what CC is, others don’t give a kitten about why they should use it. And yet, somewhere in there, a myth from the old GW2 days survives that CC should NAAT be used on some bosses… Becoz, let’s be honest, kitten the wiki.

I’m getting now the same people asking for “nerf HoT” are the ones that just don’t want to use any skill that is not pure DPS.

Ardid.7203:

I’m getting now the same people asking for “nerf HoT” are the ones that just don’t want to use any skill that is not pure DPS.

Aye, I’ve been thinking this for a few months. People just need to see those high numbers (I do play as glass on all of my toons though, I just don’t ask for nerfs to content that is fine as it is. I rarely die now however :P) you either need to be good at dodging and active defense such as blocks, be able to type in mapchat for added support for some events. Or die :P

Nowadays I run glass and celestial indistincly, but tend to take always a big selection of CC skills instead of only DPS effects. I’m not the faster of the crowd when killing things, but I find it way more fun.

misterman.1530:

Not everyone goes online to watch a twitch stream, a youtube video, or read wiki notes about a game they are playing.

Yeah, I have WAY better things to do in RL than this.

LoL NooBs.5076:

Many kids nowadays. Some don’t know what CC is, others don’t give a kitten about why they should use it. And yet, somewhere in there, a myth from the old GW2 days survives that CC should NAAT be used on some bosses… Becoz, let’s be honest, kitten the wiki.

That is still true for the chak gerent. They made it take more damage when the bar is broken but it is not worth it with the constant charging around afterwards.

Im still new to the game but ive been playing mmos forever, of course with some very long breaks in between but something I have learned about newer mmorpgs is no one wants to try out different ways to play together its always max dps, max dps, max dps, im sorry but usually this is not the only way to play, while this game does seem to stray away from roles it doesnt seem like it does completely, someone explained to be in the game like this, there isnt a tank but there is a bruiser who does higher dps but can take punishment.

Why would anet give certain classes all these tools if they didnt want it to happen? Look at all the support the guardian can give for example, maybe its bruiser, support like boons or cc, and utility? But as I said im still new and learning but maybe someone can clear this up who has allot of experience experienmenting with different kinds of groups?

Haleydawn.3764:

Dante.1508:

FalconOSeven.2364:

Khisanth.2948:

Dante.1508:

Can anyone tell me what CC a Daredevil gets, i’m not seeing any at all, bare in mind new players or Returnees like me have yet to even master all their specs so all the new skills aren’t accessible to me yet (in all classes)

It’s in the skills’ descriptions with a few exceptions

Soft CC
Disabling Shot
Weakening Charge
Dust Strike
Sword AA
Dagger AA when traited with Lotus Poison
Shadow Shot
Distracting Daggers
Black Powder
Blinding Powder
Needle Trap
Caltrops
Devourer Venom
Ice Drake Venom

Hard CC
Pistol Whip
Headshot
Tripwire
Scorpion Wire
Reflexive Strike from Bandit’s Defense
Distracting Daggers
Basilisk Venom
Thieves Guild – the female thief summoned will use Scorpion Wire

Ambush – this could be either type of CC depending on if it summons a male or female thief

DD elite as well, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impact_Strike (it’s 3 attacks, the first 2 are cc’s, 3rd one you don’t need to use as it is mainly for finishing players in spvp/wvw)

So only two on DD, i must use daggers pistols or obscure secondary skills switching and swapping… very annoying i use none of the above ever..

I use Dust strike and weaken charge all the time and they do nothing.

Btw they are thief skills in general.. I haven’t unlocked the elite yet.

Along with the Daredevil elite skill (which is 2 CC skills in one, plus finisher if relevant), we also have Palm Strike (2s stun) in chain after Fist Flurry. Reflexive Strike (2s knockdown), in chain after Bandits Defense. And Distracting Daggers, thrown to interrupt enemies (1/4s daze per cast, 3 per use)

So no, not “only two” on DD. Personally though I only equip power+precision signets with either Fist Flurry or Bandits defense.

I do not have the elite, i said that in the first post, its gated content and i’m still gated, jesus…

Dante.1508:

Haleydawn.3764:

Dante.1508:

FalconOSeven.2364:

Khisanth.2948:

Dante.1508:

Can anyone tell me what CC a Daredevil gets, i’m not seeing any at all, bare in mind new players or Returnees like me have yet to even master all their specs so all the new skills aren’t accessible to me yet (in all classes)

It’s in the skills’ descriptions with a few exceptions

Soft CC
Disabling Shot
Weakening Charge
Dust Strike
Sword AA
Dagger AA when traited with Lotus Poison
Shadow Shot
Distracting Daggers
Black Powder
Blinding Powder
Needle Trap
Caltrops
Devourer Venom
Ice Drake Venom

Hard CC
Pistol Whip
Headshot
Tripwire
Scorpion Wire
Reflexive Strike from Bandit’s Defense
Distracting Daggers
Basilisk Venom
Thieves Guild – the female thief summoned will use Scorpion Wire

Ambush – this could be either type of CC depending on if it summons a male or female thief

DD elite as well, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impact_Strike (it’s 3 attacks, the first 2 are cc’s, 3rd one you don’t need to use as it is mainly for finishing players in spvp/wvw)

So only two on DD, i must use daggers pistols or obscure secondary skills switching and swapping… very annoying i use none of the above ever..

I use Dust strike and weaken charge all the time and they do nothing.

Btw they are thief skills in general.. I haven’t unlocked the elite yet.

Along with the Daredevil elite skill (which is 2 CC skills in one, plus finisher if relevant), we also have Palm Strike (2s stun) in chain after Fist Flurry. Reflexive Strike (2s knockdown), in chain after Bandits Defense. And Distracting Daggers, thrown to interrupt enemies (1/4s daze per cast, 3 per use)

So no, not “only two” on DD. Personally though I only equip power+precision signets with either Fist Flurry or Bandits defense.

I do not have the elite, i said that in the first post, its gated content and i’m still gated, jesus…

I am well aware you have not unlocked the Daredevil in it’s entirety. My problem was with your lack of understanding and basic brushing off of skills.

If you had read my post properly, I was replying to the fact you stated, specifically, Daredevil has “only two” crowd control abilities. Which is incorrect. I listed all of the crowd control abilities Daredevil exclusively gets when it is traited for, and Khisanth listed all of the base thief crowd control abilities quite handily.

Jesus…

It sucks actually being helpful sometimes.

It’s gotten to the point where some of my friends and I use builds specifically designed to compensate for other people’s lack of CC. A few of us run a Chronomancer to use Continuum Rift for two Signets of Humility.

You want to know why so many players don’t use or can’t figure CC out?

Because it’s called CC. Crowd Control. Which most logical, reasoning people who don’t spend all their time gaming would take to mean controlling crowds, such as blowing back boss ADDS, or controlling the field of battle such that crowds of enemies don’t interfere during a burn phase or somesuch.

Using Crowd Control to break a “breakbar” on a single boss enemy makes no rational sense. GW2’s interface and instructions do not do an adequate job of explaining to players what enemies do, what affects them, etc. And it’s been this way since launch, with ANet’s idea of a minimal interface and excessive battle pyrotechnics from all professions.

A more concise description could read: “Use Status Control Effects to stun Enemy and take more damage.” Skill tool tips in game could actually say what effect they’d have on a Breakbar if any, or those skills could have a differently colored background or would highlight an enemy translucent blue if it affects the breakbar, etc.

If you’re going to have a minimal interface and no tutorial, along with a frantic combat system where one hit KOs occur frequently, you can’t expect players to Alt-Tab to search the Wiki for the encounter they’re currently in. It’s poor game design to have to consult a reference manual, unless you’re playing flight sims.

Kaleban.9834:

You want to know why so many players don’t use or can’t figure CC out?

Because it’s called CC. Crowd Control. Which most logical, reasoning people who don’t spend all their time gaming would take to mean controlling crowds, such as blowing back boss ADDS, or controlling the field of battle such that crowds of enemies don’t interfere during a burn phase or somesuch.

Using Crowd Control to break a “breakbar” on a single boss enemy makes no rational sense. GW2’s interface and instructions do not do an adequate job of explaining to players what enemies do, what affects them, etc. And it’s been this way since launch, with ANet’s idea of a minimal interface and excessive battle pyrotechnics from all professions.

A more concise description could read: “Use Status Control Effects to stun Enemy and take more damage.” Skill tool tips in game could actually say what effect they’d have on a Breakbar if any, or those skills could have a differently colored background or would highlight an enemy translucent blue if it affects the breakbar, etc.

If you’re going to have a minimal interface and no tutorial, along with a frantic combat system where one hit KOs occur frequently, you can’t expect players to Alt-Tab to search the Wiki for the encounter they’re currently in. It’s poor game design to have to consult a reference manual, unless you’re playing flight sims.

People just want to do the most damage and not think about a fight generally.

People to this day still get knocked on their kitten by Tequatal stomps even when they know the fight perfectly since they know where to run back to exactly before he even lands after a laser shot.

They aren’t newbies and know what the waves do and how to jump over them but they will still face tank the knock down even if it kills them by knocking them into a poison cloud. It’s simply just one more thing to do when they just want to go through the motions for some merchant trash loot.

You can spam “USE CC TO BREAK THE BREAK BAR!!!” over and over again during the Matriarch fight or Legendary Vinetooth and people will still just not even try outside of skills they use to pewpew more like Ranger longbow knock back.

Kaleban.9834:

You want to know why so many players don’t use or can’t figure CC out?

Because it’s called CC. Crowd Control. Which most logical, reasoning people who don’t spend all their time gaming would take to mean controlling crowds, such as blowing back boss ADDS, or controlling the field of battle such that crowds of enemies don’t interfere during a burn phase or somesuch.

Using Crowd Control to break a “breakbar” on a single boss enemy makes no rational sense. GW2’s interface and instructions do not do an adequate job of explaining to players what enemies do, what affects them, etc. And it’s been this way since launch, with ANet’s idea of a minimal interface and excessive battle pyrotechnics from all professions.

A more concise description could read: “Use Status Control Effects to stun Enemy and take more damage.” Skill tool tips in game could actually say what effect they’d have on a Breakbar if any, or those skills could have a differently colored background or would highlight an enemy translucent blue if it affects the breakbar, etc.

If you’re going to have a minimal interface and no tutorial, along with a frantic combat system where one hit KOs occur frequently, you can’t expect players to Alt-Tab to search the Wiki for the encounter they’re currently in. It’s poor game design to have to consult a reference manual, unless you’re playing flight sims.

This is an MMO, if we had tutorials on absolutely everything the game would be incredibly cluttered. These are far too big to detail everthing down to the t. That’s just how the MMO games work.

So that’s what patch notes are for. To explain changes and additions to content. That’s what the wiki is for, to define mechanics and/or give in-depth information about practically everything in game.

If you don’t at least read patch notes then the problem of not knowing lies with the player, not the game.

Defiance bars are not exactly rocket science to figure out. “I used a knockback on this foe, it didn’t work but that blue bar decreased. Let’s do it again. It’s turned orange the beast is stunned, and I’m doing more damage at the moment. Ok then”

The defiance bar replaced the Unshakeable stance many enemies had, with a couple of anomalies. This was to add circumstances where crowd control effects can effect higher tier enemies. Anything that would control what an enemy can or can’t do is crowd control. I thought this was obvious and you didn’t need excessive tooltips for.

Haleydawn.3764:

This is an MMO, if we had tutorials on absolutely everything the game would be incredibly cluttered.

Tutorials can be easily built right in. For example, the first story boss in HoT could go invulnerable at 50% and begin casting a ~30s everyone dies, which requires breaking the bar to interrupt. The NPCs could shout to use stuns/etc to break it.

Don’t expect the majority of players to read patch notes or bother to research the game. They’re just going to jump in and play, doing whatever they want. They’re just playing a game.

Or they could change it to a more obvious mechanic. If so many folk don’t get it or don’t understand it then maybe it is just, you know, a bad idea.

I’m still confused by the difference between soft and hard cc, and by bosses who are immune to some of my cc attacks.

DoctorDing.5890:

Or they could change it to a more obvious mechanic. If so many folk don’t get it or don’t understand it then maybe it is just, you know, a bad idea.

I’m still confused by the difference between soft and hard cc, and by bosses who are immune to some of my cc attacks.

It’s an obvious mechanic. However, they never explain how it works and just added it with an update. If we had the old launcher then we could’ve had the patch notes displayed upon login so that more players see it instead of reading the forums.

Also,
Hard cc = stun, daze, knock-backs/-downs (anything that’s an instant)
Soft cc = cripple, blind, taunt, fear, chill, etc (you can see which conditions are soft cc by looking at the applied conditions, soft cc conditions are flashing grey instead of staying red)

If you see a boss with a metal bar instead of the blue one then that means that it’s immune to cc. Sometimes, they have a window of opportunity where you can cc them like with the wyvern’s or vinetooth.

Haleydawn.3764:

This is an MMO, if we had tutorials on absolutely everything the game would be incredibly cluttered.

We don’t need tutorials on everything. There are already tutorials in the game. We just need one more for CC.

Maximus.8376:

DoctorDing.5890:

Or they could change it to a more obvious mechanic. If so many folk don’t get it or don’t understand it then maybe it is just, you know, a bad idea.

I’m still confused by the difference between soft and hard cc, and by bosses who are immune to some of my cc attacks.

It’s an obvious mechanic. However, they never explain how it works and just added it with an update. If we had the old launcher then we could’ve had the patch notes displayed upon login so that more players see it instead of reading the forums.

Also,
Hard cc = stun, daze, knock-backs/-downs (anything that’s an instant)
Soft cc = cripple, blind, taunt, fear, chill, etc (you can see which conditions are soft cc by looking at the applied conditions, soft cc conditions are flashing grey instead of staying red)

If you see a boss with a metal bar instead of the blue one then that means that it’s immune to cc. Sometimes, they have a window of opportunity where you can cc them like with the wyvern’s or vinetooth.

If it was obvious there would not be threads about it. And some bosses have a normal blue bar that is not affected by some CCs. /shrug

Kaleban.9834:

You want to know why so many players don’t use or can’t figure CC out?

Because it’s called CC. Crowd Control. Which most logical, reasoning people who don’t spend all their time gaming would take to mean controlling crowds, such as blowing back boss ADDS, or controlling the field of battle such that crowds of enemies don’t interfere during a burn phase or somesuch.

Using Crowd Control to break a “breakbar” on a single boss enemy makes no rational sense. GW2’s interface and instructions do not do an adequate job of explaining to players what enemies do, what affects them, etc. And it’s been this way since launch, with ANet’s idea of a minimal interface and excessive battle pyrotechnics from all professions.

A more concise description could read: “Use Status Control Effects to stun Enemy and take more damage.” Skill tool tips in game could actually say what effect they’d have on a Breakbar if any, or those skills could have a differently colored background or would highlight an enemy translucent blue if it affects the breakbar, etc.

If you’re going to have a minimal interface and no tutorial, along with a frantic combat system where one hit KOs occur frequently, you can’t expect players to Alt-Tab to search the Wiki for the encounter they’re currently in. It’s poor game design to have to consult a reference manual, unless you’re playing flight sims.

I think you are correct in the assertion that many players just don’t understand the mechanic.

The other part is that they feel forced to limit certain skills until the break bar resets before using them again, which also messes with normal and perhaps more logical rotations. Not to diss on Rangers too much, but how many times have you watched one senselessly use that knock back and push a mob/boss right out of everyone’s aoes, weapon range? Many other players do this stuff all the time, but we don’t see it clearly because a knock back is a huge visual clue.

Playing a staff Necro as an example is s a bit frustrating if you are trying to use only 2 skills for the majority of the fight and saving the combo finisher for a break bar, or the CCs directly for the break bar. I tend to drop 3 then 4 as a matter of normal rotation. It feels weird to spam 1 and 2 waiting for that break bar to reset, and the utilities vary depending the on fight mechanics.

There are other weapons to use also, but they require being in certain ranges and positions that are not healthy for a Necro to be in against some bosses. It can be very frustrating knowing that you have some very good CC skills to break the bar, only to risk certain death to use them.

I don’t hate the system. I just don’t like how the break bar mechanic sometimes forces players to play poorly because of the boss mechanics. This is greatly magnified when a large portion of the players have no idea how to break that bar, or simply can’t do it effectively.

A basic Champion like the Champion Ram in Timberline Falls is not a challenge or a real threat for most players. I often happen across people soloing it and that break bar is full or nearly full as I approach. Within my first few seconds of joining the fight I have dropped it almost entirely and he begins to melt fast. It is not required to drop the bar on this Champion, but I do find it odd that many don’t even try to do it.

I think that Anet should invest a bit more in getting the players to understand the mechanic, how it works, and which skills are required to do it. It couldn’t hurt.

Maximus.8376:

If you see a boss with a metal bar instead of the blue one then that means that it’s immune to cc.

Problem is, they are always immune to cc. The only thing cc skills can do is to deplete breakbar, but their normal function never works on those bosses.

Players learn very fast that cc does not work on bosses, because it’s something highly visible. Learning that in some situations those skills can still be useful is for many not something that can be easily noticed just by observing, however.

Astralporing.1957:

Maximus.8376:

If you see a boss with a metal bar instead of the blue one then that means that it’s immune to cc.

Problem is, they are always immune to cc. The only thing cc skills can do is to deplete breakbar, but their normal function never works on those bosses.

Players learn very fast that cc does not work on bosses, because it’s something highly visible. Learning that in some situations those skills can still be useful is for many not something that can be easily noticed just by observing, however.

Somewhere else in the thread, I think I saw the proposal of “blue numbers” when a player damages a breakbar. This kind of visual feedback would be great for getting players to do it more often, since they see an actual effect.

I wonder now how many people have never noticed that the ‘Charge’ attack of a Flesh Golem does a massive amount of breakbar damage.

The various ‘fear’ skills while in Shroud also damage breakbars significantly, while basically being otherwise useless in such fights.

Cc is not a hard concept to grasp, I understand it in my first mmorpg with no issues, and learned how to use it when needed, if anything this game tells you as clear as day what your skills and traits do, really how much more simple can it be?

Ryou.2398:

Cc is not a hard concept to grasp, I understand it in my first mmorpg with no issues, and learned how to use it when needed, if anything this game tells you as clear as day what your skills and traits do, really how much more simple can it be?

not having the mechanic in the first place
that would be simpler AND cheaper

Ryou.2398:

Cc is not a hard concept to grasp, I understand it in my first mmorpg with no issues, and learned how to use it when needed, if anything this game tells you as clear as day what your skills and traits do, really how much more simple can it be?

When you put an immobilize/knockdown/knockback/etc skill on boss and the boss keeps moving as if nothing has happened, the concept suddenly stops being so simple.

I am 100% sure that about 70% of the player base have no idea what the blue bar means. I assume most think it’s kind of a mana/energy bar. Just play Shatterer and you know what it means.

This is the lack of introduction in the game. The game needs to teach what CC is. I mean really hard teaching like an instance you have to accomplish with all the mechanics the game offers: CC, dodging, combo fields/finishers etc. Also people just mash buttons without thinking once, resulting in kitten like the typical Bearbow to use LB #4 kicking mobs out of a AoE field.