Guild Wars 2

I’m sorry, I left out an important part. I’ve edited my post accordingly.

You claim to be pretty sure of something. You use your own tiny little experience to illustrate. And then you patronize someone about comfirmation bias.

Priceless.

Manasa Devi.7958:

I’m sorry, I left out an important part. I’ve edited my post accordingly.

You claim to be pretty sure of something. You use your own tiny little experience to illustrate. And then you patronize someone about comfirmation bias.

Priceless.

I’m pretty sure of something, and I said it as a response to someone stating their opinion as fact. Yep. That’s right. I’m pretty sure of something based on my experience, not just with this game, but over the course of many years, with many different games.

But I didn’t come to the forums slinging that opinion around. I responded to someone else who was slinging their opinion around as if it were some kind of fact. It’s not.

I’m quite happy to wait to see what six months brings. What’s priceless is your seemingly endless attempts to make a reasonable point of view seem unreasonable.

It’s very entertaining. It’s also not working. The people who have already judged me a white knight aren’t listening to what I say anyway, but plenty of other people are. They can see the difference between someone making a hard and fast statement, and someone saying they don’t believe it’s so.

Since neither of us will have proof until time passes, I’m going to leave it at that. Have fun.

Raid is just the new big thing that everyone is clambering to get a piece of thats why the game feels void right now everyone there doin raid once the next update is kicked out people will be pushing for it next with the holidays comming up people will be out roaming the maps again for achievment and whatever goodies are out there for us again. Game literally a kitten ed if you do kitten ed if you dont for anet becasue no matter wth they decide to add part of the community gonna moan about thats just natural i just wish people would learn to stop feeding into the hyperbole posts i see popping up by trolls all over the forums.

Vayne.8563:

I responded to someone else who was slinging their opinion around as if it were some kind of fact. It’s not.

Rofls

anyways, being able to adapt is one thing but being able to identify problems is another.

While loyal fans are defending anet, loyal fans are also coming out and pointing out the issues with the design decisions. Anet should take notes of what going on in the forum as issue raised can be crucial for them to retain their player base. #justsaying

nobleroar.2078:

Vayne.8563:

I responded to someone else who was slinging their opinion around as if it were some kind of fact. It’s not.

Rofls

anyways, being able to adapt is one thing but being able to identify problems is another.

While loyal fans are defending anet, loyal fans are also coming out and pointing out the issues with the design decisions. Anet should take notes of what going on in the forum as issue raised can be crucial for them to retain their player base. #justsaying

I agree with you. I think Anet should (and does) pay attention to what’s said on the forum. For example, I don’t believe that mastery points should be tied into adventures. I think that’s a mistake.

I think that having the raid entrance in a zone that needs people for the meta is a mistake. I think that having some collections depend on doing events that only spawn after another event fails is a mistake. I believe that break bar changes made to certain foes in the open world have screwed up certain encounters, like Sotz the Scallywag, needed for certain guild missions.

And I don’t think small guilds should lose functionality and have to earn stuff over again. I think that was a mistake.

Which doesn’t mean I’m not a loyal fan. It just means that the problems some people have are different than the problems i have.

Black Box.9312:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That’s exactly what Anet did. People asked for more challenging content.

I did not claim otherwise. The OP is suggesting that the consumer should adapt to the product. I merely pointed out that he had it backwards.

HoT is an example that demonstrates my point. Nearly every aspect of the expansion is an example of ANet attempting to adapt GW2 to consumer desires.

Vayne.8563:

Doam.8305:

Straylight.7529:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That might be true for a kickstarter project. HoT however is not a kickstarter project.

Besides, you can’t please everyone.

What is wrong with today’s world and youth what country could you possibly come from where that isn’t true for every product.

This is capitalism and there isn’t a single instance in this type of system where the consumer is forced to adapt to the wims of the salesman. The burden is on them it isn’t true for a kickstarter but everything this isn’t some socialistic society where people care that a business stays afloat. If they can’t meet the demands of the consumer then it will fail and it in MMO’s that’s an all to common occurrence even now the number one complaint on these forums are empty maps and empty modes because people continue to use there rights to find a product that suits there needs.

Others see this and know it will happen and complain to see if changes will be made because this game requires people and if Anet continues to drop people there won’t be enough people left playing for the rest of us to enjoy the game exactly like those posts complaining about empty, maps, dungeons, events, wvw, and even something as simple as a LFR tool to l shrink the amount of afk raiders waiting for a raid in VB.

Actually this isn’t really true at all. Consumers adapt all the time. Of course there are cases when they don’t also. But don’t fool yourself.

Selling in part, is convincing people to change their minds. Anet has done a bad job of selling a lot of the changes to the game. They’re devs, not sales people. But that doesn’t make the changes bad. Sometimes people are forced to adapt and end up better for it.

Nearly every product on the market is designed and adapted to meet a perceived or potential demand before sales gets involved with attempting to maximize revenue by minimizing the, “you cant please everyone,” aspect.

In general though you are attempting to get consumers to give your product, which was designed and adapted to (hopefully) meet their desires, a shot. If the new flavor of Coke makes a consumer nauseous no amount of asking him to adapt to the new recipe is going to get him to buy in to the product. Either the product changes or that consumer doesn’t buy.

Ashen.2907:

Black Box.9312:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That’s exactly what Anet did. People asked for more challenging content.

I did not claim otherwise. The OP is suggesting that the consumer should adapt to the product. I merely pointed out that he had it backwards.

HoT is an example that demonstrates my point. Nearly every aspect of the expansion is an example of ANet attempting to adapt GW2 to consumer desires.

Unfortunately, they failed in their attempt. ANET seems to think that challenging means grinding ad nauseum. I do like that they also made the mobs themselves harder with more interesting attacks. But it is the rest of HoT and it’s endless grinds / paywalls that sucks.

Challenging mobs = good.
Endless grinding = look for another game.

Goldrock.9076:

Most the compaints are simply sourpuss people is all never happy

You have absolutely zero proof that this is even true.

Pezz.4758:

Black Box.9312:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That’s exactly what Anet did. People asked for more challenging content.

If you weren’t one of those people, well… Sorry. There’s plenty of other content to go around for you, and plenty of other games for you to play.

i cant stress how extremely damaging telling people to quit the game can be in the long term
ive ridden the hardcore vs casual content roller coaster before, the biggest loser was the game company
ive moved on i refuse to ride it again, but i hope for the sake of the fans of this IP people dont leave and if you are a fan of this game you would think the same

How is it damaging to tell someone who isn’t enjoying a game to stop playing it? There will always be people displeased with things no matter what you do. It’s far less damaging to embrace one side at the risk of alienating the other than it is to try to juggle everything and end up with nobody satisfied.

The issue that people are arguing against is not going to change. The content is going to be difficult because that is what people wanted. For anyone who didn’t want more difficulty, there’s just nothing else you can really do except move on to something else that will make you happy. The rest of us might miss you juuuuuuuust a little bit, but I promise we’ll be okay.

If you mean the whole permastack and melee thing, in instances, I think that is a huge design mistake and that people shouldn’t even humour it.

If you’ve come here from a game like WoW, you can see how utterly ridiculous that is, so you are likely to just laugh and/or refuse to comply.

Being flexible, within reason, is one thing, but being forced to “adapt” to blatant cheesing, as if that is a good thing, is quite another.

Also, if people want to play ranged/ranged, they should be able to and in this game, you simply can’t, unless your group is prepared to humour you.

It may seem innovative to some; but, actually, it’s just bad design.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

People are just human. Some listen; some don’t. Some like to adapt; some don’t. Some like to witch and bine; some like to try something new.

Typically, when I see nattering nabobs of negativity in /map or /say, I /block them. If they post here, I ignore them (unless they post something that is demonstrably untrue, in which case, I often feel compelled to offer the evidence that refutes that aspect of the rant). And I all-but-completely refuse to play with people who prefer to complain about bugs or difficulty or grind, rather than work to succeed (the sole exception being for friends of friends).

tl;dr yeah, people have trouble adapting. I try to adapt to that lack of adaption.

Apparently, you don’t…

Blaming, ignoring, refusing to play with and blocking people, for not liking things in a game, is not adapting to them (or their lack of adaption).

If those people were the game, it’s more the equivalent of leaving the game in disgust, rather than adapting to it.

I’m sure lots of people are trying to adapt but still haven’t bothered switching traits, stat sets, and/or utilities.

The problem however isn’t the mob mechanics, but relatively poor balancing. Yes there should be challenging world events like the Tangled Depths meta, and yes rewards should scale with difficulty. Cursed Shore and Silverwaste are drastically more rewarding and reliable than the Tangled Depths meta, so to logically reconcile this the meta could obtain a reward buff reflecting the true mastery over the content.

Another thing is masteries are too much EXP. It isn’t the gating that’s the problem, just the sheer number of experience needed especially given the scarcity of mastery points in HoT. I got one for diving over a waterfall near a vista so who knows maybe I need to look more (thought there was a jumping puzzle in the area needing to hop on stones, jump to a helicopter, fly to a helicopter blade, climb that, etc., no jumping puzzle but the dive was cool).

Interesting, because one of the greatest feats of mankind is the ability to adapt…yet here we are talking about people unwilling to adapt…what they’re unwilling to adapt however is their play style…nothing more/nothing less…and I can point out a thousand single player games that make you adapt or die…nothing different than in this game, the game is designed one way, you can either adapt your play style to make life easier or trudge along doing the same old, same old.

None of HoT is honestly that super difficult that you can’t do a lot of it roaming around solo, as long as you pay attention to what’s going on around you. Having said that, yes, there are events and Meta events that require groups, but you don’t need to join in to enjoy them…you can hang around the fringes and still participate…though some might frown on that, you’re still doing something helpful, only doing it your way.

P.S. – I’m one of many taking a break for FO4, it just happened to release not long after HoT, can’t help companies release schedules.

If I want hardcore raids – I play WoW
If i want rated PvP – I play WoW

I bought GW2 because it was more casual friendly and didn’t have to invest in it too much to get my share of fun and could follow my own pace. A game that you could log 1-2h a week and still get something done and have fun.
With HoT there’s so much gated content and grinding involved I might aswell go play a game that does it better.

TLDR;
GW2 had a niche, and now it tries to do things it wasn’t designed for, and it does them worse than other MMOs out there.

VaLee.5102:

TLDR;
GW2 had a niche, and now it tries to do things it wasn’t designed for, and it does them worse than other MMOs out there.

What things was GW2 designed for and what things it wasn’t designed for?

Doam.8305:

HoT is a shift in the game that doesn’t align itself with the vision or what brought people to GW2 in the first place.

What kind of vision are you talking about?

I actually really agree with OP on this. Prejudgment and the resulting action is a large part of some peoples problem. I’m not saying everybody, or even a lot of people, are suffering from this, nor am I saying that Anet / HoT is perfect. But, I have known several people who have quit, or complained, without giving it a chance. I’ve had similar experiences with PvP, WvW, and any number of other things. Heck, even my guild! I’ve had 5 people quit my guild because I mandated that they sign up for the Guild Website. This is the ONLY requirement to be in my guild. We ASK that you check it once per week, that you participate in missions, and donate what you can. But all we require is that you sign up for the website so you can access the guild upgrade, mission, and event calendar.

In my experiences, people are hesitant to change, and will often avoid something on pure prejudice (I’m guilty of it myself in many occasions). Although I think OP did not adequately make himself (or herself) clear (which they already addressed), I think their idea (or at least what I took their idea to be) has merit.