Guild Wars 2

Consider this as a banter, as I am by no means an experienced GW2 player and I do consider myself casual as I play the game on and off all the time.

I always hear complaints about how hard the game, how hard that boss is, how fraustrating it is to kill this or to achieve that. And to be fair, GW2 has alot of flaws and Anet is by no means perfect. There is alot of things that could be done better, that is a fact. However, have you ever considered that you maybe the reason you aren’t enjoying GW2?

I happened to be playing fractals lately. I am a complete newbie to them as I never fancied the concept and as I said, I am a really casual player. Ironically enough I have started playing fractals when the rewards got nerfed. Anyhow, just playing them the last couple of days I have experienced alot of ’’negativity’’. Alot of people just refuse to adapt. I have been trying fractal 17 for around 2 hours today. I am pretty sure it is just ’’luck’’ that I ended up with groups where people didn’t know how to play the instance and it is no problem by any means. I couldn’t play it properly just yesterday. However, seeing that people just totally refuse learning the mechanics is just depressing. on top of that, alot of people type stuff like ‘’why does g2 need to be so fraustrating?’’ on chat after failing the encounter. I do understand that some content could be hard, however, tehre is way too many people who are totally against the concept of being flexible.

‘’I will play how I want, I paid for the game’‘. This is a sentence that gets repeated over and over again and it feels like people really expect the game to play exactly the way they wants to be. I know there is alot of casuals and I am alot of them. However, I do honestly believe that alot of people are not enjoying the game because they simply don’t want to. There is a difference between being a casual and simply having no interest trying to learn the different mechanics.

And to be fair, i could totally understand the fraustration happening currently with HoT. I mean, if fractals 17 could take 2 hours ( I am sure that if I was good enough, we could have been done faster. but the fact that I am just average doesn’t help either ), I totally understand that some see HoT content as hardcore to the point of being unplayable.

PS. This isn’t a post related to other HoT issues like maps being empty etc. It is simply to point out that some people want to play the game the way they want. And while it is not wrong by any means, it maybe one of the main reasons that alot of people don’t enjoy MMOs nowadays. Because they don’t seem to realize that adapting to the game may not be as bad as they think. because the game adapting to their needs may not always happen.

PS. Sorry, due to some issues with the construction/grammar of the post, some people seem to have misunderstood my point. I posted a second comment below that explains my point a bit more clearly

Said it before and say it again: it has nothing to do with toughness, but with playing style. I don’t like action games and platform games, so I don’t play them. Simply because I have no fun in that.
Maybe its just about information: if Anet had revealed more about the expansion instead of trying to push it right away with pre-purchases, than some players would have thought twice, and no complaining at all.
Anyway, fortunately I’m a patient guy so I waited to see how it would be. No complaints here, just observing and trying to give some useful feedback.

And yet, I knew before the game came out what it would be, just from what was said. I mean yes, we didn’t know how many points were needed for elite specs (and Anet changed it pretty fast anyway). I know about masteries. I had that whole thing understood before launch. Well before launch. I knew we wouldn’t be getting as many zones but that they would be complex. I knew the zones would be more challenging. I knew something about the elite specs.

There really was a lot of information…but you can’t make people listen anyway.

Every day I spend hours roaming the maps for trash events all because I can never get a group to join the one server active in the meta event. If I ever manage to join the meta event, I get DC right before it ends with no credit given. (Yes. I’m using the 64 bit client)

Difficulty is not a problem. The servers are the problem.

It’s not hard to understand also there is nothing more disgusting than making people adapt to a product that’s not how the world or capitalism works.

GW2 existed for 3 years and brought it many new players

It is said that many of the staff left during Season 1 so a shift in the game with new people is only expected. World of Warcraft for instance died or rather is dying by a similar fashion and I’m amazed there are still people that don’t know this but at there 11mill prime around WOTLK the company was purchased by Activision the Call of Duty dev and the internal bits of Blizzard changes drastically and the game has been in a constant spiral of death ever since they became part of Activision and went through a shift though that shift is an extreme example because the first thing they did was release Cata and wipe out the core maps and all nostalgia.

HoT is a shift in the game that doesn’t align itself with the vision or what brought people to GW2 in the first place. This is capitalism and if people don’t like something then they simply go to another product that they do and many of those people went to GW2 over other MMO’s. With HoT those people voiced there concerns and in proper fashion with any product many simply left to find another product that’s more aligned with the initial vision that GW2 laid out. People aren’t supposed to adapt to goods and services nor should they sit around for years hoping for a product to change like these Mount, SAB, or Template people.

If you don’t like the burger then go to a different restaurant and what TC is experiencing is that people don’t like changes to a certain mode so they stopped playing that mode yet didn’t leave the game because there are other modes that exist that they still like to play. You can’t expect people to adapt when they shouldn’t have to adapt it’s Anet job to sell us a product and if they can’t sell us the product then it’s not going to be used even if a few people like it or not.

Look at the forums we used to have tons of complaints and concerns about HoT arrise all the time however nowadays we get “Map drying up” topics as people voiced there concerns at launch and moved on with there lives which is natural and expected.

T

nGumball.1283:

However, have you ever considered that you maybe the reason you aren’t enjoying GW2?

This is, with distance, the saddest thing I ever read on this forum.

Think about a hundred things you don’t enjoy, and repeat this sentiment about each thing. Start with the things you least enjoy. And blame yourself. It’ll make you a better person.

People these days.

Manasa Devi.7958:

nGumball.1283:

However, have you ever considered that you maybe the reason you aren’t enjoying GW2?

This is, with distance, the saddest thing I ever read on this forum.

Think about a hundred things you don’t enjoy, and repeat this sentiment about each thing. Start with the things you least enjoy. And blame yourself. It’ll make you a better person.

People these days.

You haven’t gotten the point behind the sentence whatsover.
Your post doesn’t make sense in relation to what I posted.

There is nothing in your post that places that quote in a context fit for human consumption.

Manasa Devi.7958:

There is nothing in your post that places that quote in a context fit for human consumption.

I’ll admit, I laughed at that line. But, I also agree with it.

Gumball, look at it like this: ANet was serving up some nice chocolate chip cookies. We like chocolate chip cookies. They’re yummy. But, someone complained that they wanted healthier cookies, and for some reason, ANet listened. So, suddenly, they’ve changed to carob chip cookies, with raisins.

Now, some people may not mind this change. Some may even enjoy the change. But is it really on the rest of us to eat them anyway and try to force ourselves to like the new ones? No. The sensible thing to do is complain, and if that doesn’t work, then to go and get chocolate chip cookies from elsewhere.

People go through their lives enjoying some things and not others. It’s incredibly patronizing to blame people for not enjoying some things.

I wonder if the OP enjoys classical music or modern interpretive dance. I wonder if he’d enjoy having a better grasp of grammar. If not, I wonder if he blames himself and if he’ll take steps to remedy his shortcomings.

This line of thinking is unthinkable.

Manasa Devi.7958:

nGumball.1283:

However, have you ever considered that you maybe the reason you aren’t enjoying GW2?

This is, with distance, the saddest thing I ever read on this forum.

Think about a hundred things you don’t enjoy, and repeat this sentiment about each thing. Start with the things you least enjoy. And blame yourself. It’ll make you a better person.

People these days.

It’s always partly the player no matter what the reason for not liking something.

I don’t like PvP because I’m not good at it and no real desire to get good at all.

If ANet decides for whatever reason to add open world PvP to the game, me suddenly not liking the game would be part me, because I don’t like PvP. But it’s also part ANet for adding in more PvP.

It’s always a combination of player and game when someone doesn’t like something in a game. And games are easier to change than players are. Because it’s hard to change your own preferences, especially if you’ve already tried what you say you don’t like.

So saying it’s the player or saying it’s ANet alone isn’t enough. ANet needs to know the what you didn’t like. So that it can make an informed decision on whether it should change the game or not.

NayNay.7680:

Every day I spend hours roaming the maps for trash events all because I can never get a group to join the one server active in the meta event. If I ever manage to join the meta event, I get DC right before it ends with no credit given. (Yes. I’m using the 64 bit client)

Difficulty is not a problem. The servers are the problem.

And when you finally land in that primed meta crunching map you can spend the best part of an hour more … then you blink and you have been pushed to an empty map without rhyme or reason.. this megaserver malarkey is utter trash and should be renamed megafailure..
You can be waiting ages for a map to ramp up to full potential, especially since ANET thought it would be a good idea to place the raid entrance inside one of those meta maps… only to find all your time and efforts are just puked on by this shambolic server system.
There is a reason other MMO’s like this kind of stuff either instanced or the game provides the ability for players to choose which map copy they want to be in, not that, that concept would sort this games server frailties.

People are just human. Some listen; some don’t. Some like to adapt; some don’t. Some like to witch and bine; some like to try something new.

Typically, when I see nattering nabobs of negativity in /map or /say, I /block them. If they post here, I ignore them (unless they post something that is demonstrably untrue, in which case, I often feel compelled to offer the evidence that refutes that aspect of the rant). And I all-but-completely refuse to play with people who prefer to complain about bugs or difficulty or grind, rather than work to succeed (the sole exception being for friends of friends).

tl;dr yeah, people have trouble adapting. I try to adapt to that lack of adaption.

I really see no reason why i should force myself to adapt to the changes i don’t like when for me those changes were for the worse. Sorry, but i’m not a martyr willing to suffer for other people’s enjoyment.

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

I knew the mobs would be more challenging. I didn’t know the HCs wouldn’t all be soloable. I wish I’d known that before HoT launched.

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That might be true for a kickstarter project. HoT however is not a kickstarter project.

Besides, you can’t please everyone.

If people are unhappy en mass things get changed or the game dies. It’s a game, if it’s not fun, it fails.

Straylight.7529:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That might be true for a kickstarter project. HoT however is not a kickstarter project.

Besides, you can’t please everyone.

it also is true for a game that is able to be changed through coding…. patching…. it is software, so it can be changed. simples.

Straylight.7529:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That might be true for a kickstarter project. HoT however is not a kickstarter project.

Besides, you can’t please everyone.

You can’t please everyone, but you can do better than ANet has.

How? Difficulty adjusters, for starters.

Imagine if ANet went back into the dungeons in the main game, and fixed them up. Gave them each a solo story version, and set them up for adjustable difficulty on exploration paths. Let’s say the difficulty goes from 0-5, with 0 being base. For every point of difficulty, you go through with a -2 to your effective level. Other changes may show up as well, such as a boss having new attacks or there being an unexpected ambush at one of several points, chosen randomly each time you run it.

They could even tie this to a Mastery line, with each level of the mastery allowing you to go to that level of difficulty adjustment.

I can’t help but suspect that such a thing would have been more widely acclaimed than raids, and would likely take less work than a single new raid does.

To be fair, my main post was badly constructed with alot of flawed grammar. This may have lead to some misunderstanding regarding the subject I wanted to discuss.. or rather the point I wanted to make.

Alot of people seem to introduce their own desires and values as if they were common knowledge that every single player in the game should be agreeing with. That ANet is a company filled with uneducated kids who have no knowledge whatsover as to how a game should be run. Throughout my time playing GW2, I have always seen people complaining. However, the complaints don’t always come from the same audience. Sometimes we have the ’’bored’’ audience asking for additional challenging content. At other times we have the ’’casual’’ audience complaining about ANet’s changes, calling them fraustrating and that everything should be re-created to fit the picture that ANet drew for the game at its’ release. However, there is also alot of people who complain about how the game was at release, saying that they awaited progression but all they got was the same old ’’garbage’’.

The point here is that different parts of the community constantly ask for completely different things, that in many cases are impossible to have in the game together. Some ask for changes while others complain about those same changes, calling them out for being bad decisions by ANet. Alot of those people, however, seem to ignore the fact that MANY of these changes were in fact asked for by the player-base. No, not the audience that YOU are standing for, but that other one that you pretend it doesn’t exist.

I am in no way telling people that they should be playing the game in a certain way. I am not either telling them that they should be liking things they don’t enjoy. My point was that since the game will never be perfect, having the right mentality could actually improve the experience a ton. Sometimes we, as players, need to be more flexible. Maybe this specific content doesn’t match my taste, but let’s give it a try before writing it off the table. Let’s perhaps try this ’’HARD’’ content. Maybe playing it for a day or two and actually trying to figure out the mechanics could help improve my experience.

My point is that since the game will never be perfect, maybe we could try to look at the good things and try to enjoy the game a bit more. This could not work and you may still hate the game. However, there is also the chance, that you may enjoy some of the content that you ,originally, didn’t like the concept behind. That was in reference to my own experience playing fractals, seeing that people complained about how frustrating the experience was. My opinion was that alot of these people didn’t really try to adapt to the difficulty in the instance. It may have been frustrating for them but I think part of it was because they never tried to learn the mechanics and rather wanted everything to be a faceroll. Yes, that may have been their prefered playstyle and they have the right to be inclined to that. However, I also do believe that being flexible in those situations may make your gaming experience alot more enjoyable. Games will never be perfect and I doubt you can find a game that can fully match your playstyle. Sometimes, being openminded about trying new stuff could mean alot. While clinching to your original ideas in a conservative way may actually limit your own enjoyment, not only in gaming but in life as a whole.

ANet is by no means a perfect company. GW2 is also flawed and so is the expansion. However, my point was that ‘’IF GW2 is to stay like this’’ there surely are some ways to enjoy the game more. One way is to be a bit more openminded about trying new things and experiencing new stuff that perhaps doesn’t fit your perfect picture. Maybe being openminded as a player could also help ANet decide on what their priorities should be.

One of the things that I think ANet did completely wrong isis not deciding on an identity for their game. They keep trying to make everyone satisfied. And by this point, none seems to be satisfied anylonger due to the company changing their values all the time.

nGumball.1283:

snip

Alot of people seem to introduce their own desires and values as if they were common knowledge that every single player in the game should be agreeing with.

snip

This is true but also realize that so many people so many ideas/tastes/complaints etc etc plus most people are egoistic even if they think they are not (and that is a human flaw nothing else). we all want what is best for ourselves. thats just human nature.

but you are right some parts. it is like what i try to teach my son: keep at it and you might get better at it. if not it is perhaps not your thing and we move on to the next!

1. People in general have a thing about being right.
2. It’s common for people to project their own thoughts and feelings onto others. This happens anywhere people interact with others.
3. In discussions, people tend to want to make their opinions real by generating agreement from others. When others don’t agree, they’re generally considered to be wrong. See #1. Defaming others who differ is is part of the process of generating agreement. It’s kind of a shameful part when it degenerates to pejoratives, but some don’t choose to put forth reasoned arguments, or add the pejoratives to the arguments for a little extra zing.
4. Examining one’s own assumptions critically is something people have to be trained to do or train themselves to do. It does not come naturally. Again, see #1.

This is all pretty basic psychology.

That said, a game is for enjoyment. There is no right or wrong in terms of what people enjoy. They will still try to generate agreement about what they want being (obviously) the best course for the game, though.

Fwiw, I also think that ANet is trying to provide something for everyone. However, they’re also trying to stick to a vision they have for the game. They’ve been pretty consistent about it, tbh, while still trying to cater to diverse gamer demographics.

It’s possible that some players will expand their horizons by trying stuff outside their comfort zones. ANet certainly hopes so, with all the incentives in the form of virtual rewards tied to multiple game modes and things to do within modes they throw out there. Others won’t though. Since games are a matter of enjoyment, that’s their prerogative.

Yours is one of the more measured and kind variations on this topic that I’ve seen, but I still disagree on principle.

Here’s what I do agree with: If you aren’t getting any enjoyment out of the game, but are continuing to play it anyway, that is largely on you. I say “largely” because there is room for addiction in this equation.

However, what you have to realize is that a lot of people enjoy parts of the game and dislike other parts. Sometimes there is even content that is a mix of parts they like and don’t like.

It would be silly to think that you will enjoy every moment of a game, or anything in life for that matter. But when people get consistently upset about some aspect of a game, it is usually because that aspect of the game has a significant impact on their enjoyment. It does not necessarily mean they enjoy no parts of the game. And suggesting that they adapt is like suggesting that a Pepsi fan “adapt” to drinking Coke.

There are two underlying points here:

1) Sometimes people complain to vent (it doesn’t mean that every time they complain they want something to burn, or change to meet their demands).

2) People aren’t “unwilling” to adapt. They are uninterested. If my taste buds say that Coke tastes like crap, there is little point in me trying to convince myself that Coke tastes good. That’s what it’s like in a lot of cases. Preference, in a word. Preferences can change over time and acceptance can happen with a heavy sigh (see grief and loss), which is where the illusion of adapting comes from, but it doesn’t mean that any person in a situation of dislike can easily change their preferences to make themselves happier.

If enjoyment was that simple, the world would probably be nicer, but we’re human beings with rampant emotions, not souped up android beings.

@Labjax, I think the word you are looking for is subjective. People seem to forget their views are subjective. Difficulty, fun, taste, favorites, it’s all subjective. Gamers always seem to forget this, and try to force their subjective views on other people. Such as “I find it easy, you are doing it wrong.” That’s a poor comment because difficulty is subjective, it’ll vary wildly between players. The better comment would always be “Why is this difficult for this player? And is there anything I can do to help?” But then that actually requires things like empathy, effort, time, and/or even resources. So I understand why many players simply shrug them off. You can’t spend your game time helping every single person through the content.

Labjax.2465:

However, what you have to realize is that a lot of people enjoy parts of the game and dislike other parts. Sometimes there is even content that is a mix of parts they like and don’t like.

I think this is a lot more common that people realize. I’ve read so many forum posts where people seem to think you either absolutely hate the game and everything about it or absolutely love the game and everything about it. The reality is, most people are a mix of the two.

And when you’ve invested considerable time and effort into a game, even if you don’t end up liking an expansion or don’t like the direction a game is going, it’s not a simple thing to write all that off and just leave. A lot of factors come into play that keep people around even when they’re upset about something.

Straylight.7529:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That might be true for a kickstarter project. HoT however is not a kickstarter project.

Besides, you can’t please everyone.

It is true, in general, for almost any product.

Palador.2170:

Straylight.7529:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That might be true for a kickstarter project. HoT however is not a kickstarter project.

Besides, you can’t please everyone.

You can’t please everyone, but you can do better than ANet has.

How? Difficulty adjusters, for starters.

Imagine if ANet went back into the dungeons in the main game, and fixed them up. Gave them each a solo story version, and set them up for adjustable difficulty on exploration paths. Let’s say the difficulty goes from 0-5, with 0 being base. For every point of difficulty, you go through with a -2 to your effective level. Other changes may show up as well, such as a boss having new attacks or there being an unexpected ambush at one of several points, chosen randomly each time you run it.

They could even tie this to a Mastery line, with each level of the mastery allowing you to go to that level of difficulty adjustment.

I can’t help but suspect that such a thing would have been more widely acclaimed than raids, and would likely take less work than a single new raid does.

I would love this implementation to dungeon. Add scaling rewards (within the current nerfed version) so that players who love group play don’t feel like being slapped in the face for the added difficulty and even a dungeon-allergic like I would run a dungeon at least once (for the story).

IndigoSundown.5419:

1. People in general have a thing about being right.
2. It’s common for people to project their own thoughts and feelings onto others. This happens anywhere people interact with others.
3. In discussions, people tend to want to make their opinions real by generating agreement from others. When others don’t agree, they’re generally considered to be wrong. See #1. Defaming others who differ is is part of the process of generating agreement. It’s kind of a shameful part when it degenerates to pejoratives, but some don’t choose to put worth reasoned arguments, or add the pejoratives to the arguments for a little extra zing.
4. Examining one’s own assumptions critically is something people have to be trained to do or train themselves to do. It does not come naturally. Again, see #1.

This is all pretty basic psychology.

That said, a game is for enjoyment. There is no right or wrong in terms of what people enjoy. They will still try to generate agreement about what they want being (obviously) the best course for the game, though.

Fwiw, I also think that ANet is trying to provide something for everyone. However, they’re also trying to stick to a vision they have for the game. They’ve been pretty consistent about it, tbh, while still trying to cater to diverse gamer demographics.

It’s possible that some players will expand their horizons by trying stuff outside their comfort zones. ANet certainly hopes so, with all the incentives in the form of virtual rewards tied to multiple game modes and things to do within modes they throw out there. Others won’t though. Since games are a matter of enjoyment, that’s their prerogative.

There’s no subjectivity to the criticism that event cycles of 2 hours are awkward verging on the impossible for many people to deal with. It is a fact. This is so far my only substantial criticism, and it killed the expansion for me. I’ve stopped going to HoT areas until something about that changes.

When you’re in the game, adapting to new things you encounter is a natural thing. We do that all the time, we often don’t notice because we’re enjoying ourselves. Whenever we encounter a new creature, with new skills and new patterns, we adapt and kill it.

Having to adapt our real-life “activity cycles” to synch up with those present in HoT? That’s way more demanding than any game can permit itself without losing players. They’ve lost my presence in the new areas for now, and I cannot in good conscience continue to talk positively about this game in real life. They turned me into a detractor.

Manasa Devi.7958:

There’s no subjectivity to the criticism that event cycles of 2 hours are awkward verging on the impossible for many people to deal with. It is a fact.

Actually there is subjectivity there. What you consider to be, “many people,” will be considered to be, “some people,” or, “a few people,” by someone else.

In order for your statement to be a truly non-subjective fact it would need to read more like, “event cycles of 2 hours are awkward verging on the impossible for some people to deal with.”

No, it’s objective fact.

Manasa Devi.7958:

No, it’s objective fact.

Some would be an objective fact, many is a subjective term.

I didn’t read your post all the way through because the continual denial that there’s a problem with this kitten excrement expansion is rubbing me the wrong way.

You’re reading me wrong.

What my post is saying is that to certain people, regardless of their number, it is a fact that the game causes scheduling problems. These problems do exist. They are not a subjective opinion. The quantifier isn’t the fact. The existence of the problem is the irrefutable fact.

And I dare say, it affects many people.

Straylight.7529:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That might be true for a kickstarter project. HoT however is not a kickstarter project.

Besides, you can’t please everyone.

What is wrong with today’s world and youth what country could you possibly come from where that isn’t true for every product.

This is capitalism and there isn’t a single instance in this type of system where the consumer is forced to adapt to the wims of the salesman. The burden is on them it isn’t true for a kickstarter but everything this isn’t some socialistic society where people care that a business stays afloat. If they can’t meet the demands of the consumer then it will fail and it in MMO’s that’s an all to common occurrence even now the number one complaint on these forums are empty maps and empty modes because people continue to use there rights to find a product that suits there needs.

Others see this and know it will happen and complain to see if changes will be made because this game requires people and if Anet continues to drop people there won’t be enough people left playing for the rest of us to enjoy the game exactly like those posts complaining about empty, maps, dungeons, events, wvw, and even something as simple as a LFR tool to l shrink the amount of afk raiders waiting for a raid in VB.

Aidenwolf.5964:

If people are unhappy en mass things get changed or the game dies. It’s a game, if it’s not fun, it fails.

If enough people are unhappy, you’re right. I don’t believe enough people are unhappy for that to happen here though.

Doam.8305:

Straylight.7529:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That might be true for a kickstarter project. HoT however is not a kickstarter project.

Besides, you can’t please everyone.

What is wrong with today’s world and youth what country could you possibly come from where that isn’t true for every product.

This is capitalism and there isn’t a single instance in this type of system where the consumer is forced to adapt to the wims of the salesman. The burden is on them it isn’t true for a kickstarter but everything this isn’t some socialistic society where people care that a business stays afloat. If they can’t meet the demands of the consumer then it will fail and it in MMO’s that’s an all to common occurrence even now the number one complaint on these forums are empty maps and empty modes because people continue to use there rights to find a product that suits there needs.

Others see this and know it will happen and complain to see if changes will be made because this game requires people and if Anet continues to drop people there won’t be enough people left playing for the rest of us to enjoy the game exactly like those posts complaining about empty, maps, dungeons, events, wvw, and even something as simple as a LFR tool to l shrink the amount of afk raiders waiting for a raid in VB.

Actually this isn’t really true at all. Consumers adapt all the time. Of course there are cases when they don’t also. But don’t fool yourself.

Selling in part, is convincing people to change their minds. Anet has done a bad job of selling a lot of the changes to the game. They’re devs, not sales people. But that doesn’t make the changes bad. Sometimes people are forced to adapt and end up better for it.

Vayne.8563:

Doam.8305:

Straylight.7529:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That might be true for a kickstarter project. HoT however is not a kickstarter project.

Besides, you can’t please everyone.

What is wrong with today’s world and youth what country could you possibly come from where that isn’t true for every product.

This is capitalism and there isn’t a single instance in this type of system where the consumer is forced to adapt to the wims of the salesman. The burden is on them it isn’t true for a kickstarter but everything this isn’t some socialistic society where people care that a business stays afloat. If they can’t meet the demands of the consumer then it will fail and it in MMO’s that’s an all to common occurrence even now the number one complaint on these forums are empty maps and empty modes because people continue to use there rights to find a product that suits there needs.

Others see this and know it will happen and complain to see if changes will be made because this game requires people and if Anet continues to drop people there won’t be enough people left playing for the rest of us to enjoy the game exactly like those posts complaining about empty, maps, dungeons, events, wvw, and even something as simple as a LFR tool to l shrink the amount of afk raiders waiting for a raid in VB.

Actually this isn’t really true at all. Consumers adapt all the time. Of course there are cases when they don’t also. But don’t fool yourself.

Selling in part, is convincing people to change their minds. Anet has done a bad job of selling a lot of the changes to the game. They’re devs, not sales people. But that doesn’t make the changes bad. Sometimes people are forced to adapt and end up better for it.

Tell me in ANYWAY why i should adapt. Dont tell me that people do tell me why i should? First people said WvW was dead coz HoT maps, now HoT maps and fractals and dungeons are dead because raids and Fallout 4. PEOPLE ARE NOT ADAPTING. They are leaving. This is the EXACT thing that happened to wildstar. The posts are almost word for word, even down to the euphemism for swearing, except there is was cupcake and here it is kitten.

Alot of people arent happy. That is not subjective, nearly all game forms have seen a drop and the forums are filled with complaints. There is a white knight crew telling people to adapt, or dont like it leave, or get good or get out. Its the exact thing that happened with wildstar. Where is wildstar now? Struggling to survive even as a comlete free to play game.

And to think i came here for the very REASON i didnt want to adapt to wildstar. Blaming the player for a bad or poorly recieved game is the first step of denial.

I voted with my wallet with wildstar, i voted with my wallet for WoD. I sure as hell have no problem voting with my wallet here. GW2 isnt a life necessity. There is 0 absolutely 0 reason to adapt to any form of entertainment product. OF ALL products on any market in the world entertainment is the WORST one to expect people to adapt to.

to A-net, email me when this crap gets figured out, i already stopped playing the game a week ago and ive seen this forum argument play out before. Guess who lost? Carbine, the makers of wildstar. NO ONE ELSE.

There where a few things I had to do when HoT came out and I was playing through it’s content.

1. Slow Down and Think: I couldn’t just plow through everything like I did in the Core Game, and I had to Think about how to handle situations with mobs, bosses, and other mechanics.
2. Have Patience: Like it my previous adaption, I had to have patience and look around for an active map for “X” meta-event, ect. I couldn’t just blaze through it, I had to sit back and be patient.

Doing these things, HoT opened up to me, and I was able to have an enjoyable time. I believe people are just way too stubborn and caught up in themselves, and dare I say it “selfish” and think that because they spent “X” money on it, that they somehow are entitled to a game custom tailored to how they want it to be, so they can have everything on a silver platter…

Some would be an objective fact, many is a subjective term.

Some enjoy obsessing over semantic terminology when they’ve already internally ceded the cogent points of discussion but don’t want to admit to it.

Most the compaints are simply sourpuss people is all never happy doesnt matter how great anet does or how bad always gonna have that vocal minority that just moan for attention or because they think they are entitled to everything.No biggy i normally respond anyways although best to just ignore the bantering.

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That’s exactly what Anet did. People asked for more challenging content.

If you weren’t one of those people, well… Sorry. There’s plenty of other content to go around for you, and plenty of other games for you to play.

I’ve never seen anyone ask for content you can only enjoy to the fullest if you set your clock to it and play regardless of whether or not it’s a good time for you to be playing.

Black Box.9312:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That’s exactly what Anet did. People asked for more challenging content.

If you weren’t one of those people, well… Sorry. There’s plenty of other content to go around for you, and plenty of other games for you to play.

i cant stress how extremely damaging telling people to quit the game can be in the long term
ive ridden the hardcore vs casual content roller coaster before, the biggest loser was the game company
ive moved on i refuse to ride it again, but i hope for the sake of the fans of this IP people dont leave and if you are a fan of this game you would think the same

Pezz.4758:

Vayne.8563:

Doam.8305:

Straylight.7529:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That might be true for a kickstarter project. HoT however is not a kickstarter project.

Besides, you can’t please everyone.

What is wrong with today’s world and youth what country could you possibly come from where that isn’t true for every product.

This is capitalism and there isn’t a single instance in this type of system where the consumer is forced to adapt to the wims of the salesman. The burden is on them it isn’t true for a kickstarter but everything this isn’t some socialistic society where people care that a business stays afloat. If they can’t meet the demands of the consumer then it will fail and it in MMO’s that’s an all to common occurrence even now the number one complaint on these forums are empty maps and empty modes because people continue to use there rights to find a product that suits there needs.

Others see this and know it will happen and complain to see if changes will be made because this game requires people and if Anet continues to drop people there won’t be enough people left playing for the rest of us to enjoy the game exactly like those posts complaining about empty, maps, dungeons, events, wvw, and even something as simple as a LFR tool to l shrink the amount of afk raiders waiting for a raid in VB.

Actually this isn’t really true at all. Consumers adapt all the time. Of course there are cases when they don’t also. But don’t fool yourself.

Selling in part, is convincing people to change their minds. Anet has done a bad job of selling a lot of the changes to the game. They’re devs, not sales people. But that doesn’t make the changes bad. Sometimes people are forced to adapt and end up better for it.

Tell me in ANYWAY why i should adapt. Dont tell me that people do tell me why i should? First people said WvW was dead coz HoT maps, now HoT maps and fractals and dungeons are dead because raids and Fallout 4. PEOPLE ARE NOT ADAPTING. They are leaving. This is the EXACT thing that happened to wildstar. The posts are almost word for word, even down to the euphemism for swearing, except there is was cupcake and here it is kitten.

Alot of people arent happy. That is not subjective, nearly all game forms have seen a drop and the forums are filled with complaints. There is a white knight crew telling people to adapt, or dont like it leave, or get good or get out. Its the exact thing that happened with wildstar. Where is wildstar now? Struggling to survive even as a comlete free to play game.

And to think i came here for the very REASON i didnt want to adapt to wildstar. Blaming the player for a bad or poorly recieved game is the first step of denial.

I voted with my wallet with wildstar, i voted with my wallet for WoD. I sure as hell have no problem voting with my wallet here. GW2 isnt a life necessity. There is 0 absolutely 0 reason to adapt to any form of entertainment product. OF ALL products on any market in the world entertainment is the WORST one to expect people to adapt to.

to A-net, email me when this crap gets figured out, i already stopped playing the game a week ago and ive seen this forum argument play out before. Guess who lost? Carbine, the makers of wildstar. NO ONE ELSE.

I’m pretty sure as many people came back as those that are leaving. In my guild, more people came back, and no one has left, so this whole people are leaving claim? Meaningless.

Yes, some people are playing Fall Out 4, like my son, but he’s almost done with it and he’ll be coming back to Guild Wars 2 very soon. He returned to play HoT and he’s enjoying it.

So if some people took a break because a bunch of new games came out, well that’s not that unusual. Many of them will be back.

WvW, I agree, is in a bad place. The rest of the game isn’t suffering though. Even if you think it is. You should look up confirmation bias.

Vayne.8563:

Pezz.4758:

Vayne.8563:

Doam.8305:

Straylight.7529:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That might be true for a kickstarter project. HoT however is not a kickstarter project.

Besides, you can’t please everyone.

What is wrong with today’s world and youth what country could you possibly come from where that isn’t true for every product.

This is capitalism and there isn’t a single instance in this type of system where the consumer is forced to adapt to the wims of the salesman. The burden is on them it isn’t true for a kickstarter but everything this isn’t some socialistic society where people care that a business stays afloat. If they can’t meet the demands of the consumer then it will fail and it in MMO’s that’s an all to common occurrence even now the number one complaint on these forums are empty maps and empty modes because people continue to use there rights to find a product that suits there needs.

Others see this and know it will happen and complain to see if changes will be made because this game requires people and if Anet continues to drop people there won’t be enough people left playing for the rest of us to enjoy the game exactly like those posts complaining about empty, maps, dungeons, events, wvw, and even something as simple as a LFR tool to l shrink the amount of afk raiders waiting for a raid in VB.

Actually this isn’t really true at all. Consumers adapt all the time. Of course there are cases when they don’t also. But don’t fool yourself.

Selling in part, is convincing people to change their minds. Anet has done a bad job of selling a lot of the changes to the game. They’re devs, not sales people. But that doesn’t make the changes bad. Sometimes people are forced to adapt and end up better for it.

Tell me in ANYWAY why i should adapt. Dont tell me that people do tell me why i should? First people said WvW was dead coz HoT maps, now HoT maps and fractals and dungeons are dead because raids and Fallout 4. PEOPLE ARE NOT ADAPTING. They are leaving. This is the EXACT thing that happened to wildstar. The posts are almost word for word, even down to the euphemism for swearing, except there is was cupcake and here it is kitten.

Alot of people arent happy. That is not subjective, nearly all game forms have seen a drop and the forums are filled with complaints. There is a white knight crew telling people to adapt, or dont like it leave, or get good or get out. Its the exact thing that happened with wildstar. Where is wildstar now? Struggling to survive even as a comlete free to play game.

And to think i came here for the very REASON i didnt want to adapt to wildstar. Blaming the player for a bad or poorly recieved game is the first step of denial.

I voted with my wallet with wildstar, i voted with my wallet for WoD. I sure as hell have no problem voting with my wallet here. GW2 isnt a life necessity. There is 0 absolutely 0 reason to adapt to any form of entertainment product. OF ALL products on any market in the world entertainment is the WORST one to expect people to adapt to.

to A-net, email me when this crap gets figured out, i already stopped playing the game a week ago and ive seen this forum argument play out before. Guess who lost? Carbine, the makers of wildstar. NO ONE ELSE.

I’m pretty sure as many people came back as those that are leaving. In my guild, more people came back, and no one has left, so this whole people are leaving claim? Meaningless.

Yes, some people are playing Fall Out 4, like my son, but he’s almost done with it and he’ll be coming back to Guild Wars 2 very soon. He returned to play HoT and he’s enjoying it.

So if some people took a break because a bunch of new games came out, well that’s not that unusual. Many of them will be back.

WvW, I agree, is in a bad place. The rest of the game isn’t suffering though. Even if you think it is. You should look up confirmation bias.

sorry where is the confirmation bias in needing taxis to do 3 week old maps?
where is my personal bias of the dozens of threads of “maps are dead” that i have never posted in?

you know what never mind i keep hitting myself for trying when literally this entire thing has played out before for me down to the letter. i hope for the IPs sake everything is going as planned, ive seen one IP sink with this exact conversation paving the way, im not sticking around to find out if it happens again.

Pezz.4758:

Vayne.8563:

Pezz.4758:

Vayne.8563:

Doam.8305:

Straylight.7529:

Ashen.2907:

In general the expectation is that products be designed and adapted to meet the needs and desires of consumers, not the other way around.

That might be true for a kickstarter project. HoT however is not a kickstarter project.

Besides, you can’t please everyone.

What is wrong with today’s world and youth what country could you possibly come from where that isn’t true for every product.

This is capitalism and there isn’t a single instance in this type of system where the consumer is forced to adapt to the wims of the salesman. The burden is on them it isn’t true for a kickstarter but everything this isn’t some socialistic society where people care that a business stays afloat. If they can’t meet the demands of the consumer then it will fail and it in MMO’s that’s an all to common occurrence even now the number one complaint on these forums are empty maps and empty modes because people continue to use there rights to find a product that suits there needs.

Others see this and know it will happen and complain to see if changes will be made because this game requires people and if Anet continues to drop people there won’t be enough people left playing for the rest of us to enjoy the game exactly like those posts complaining about empty, maps, dungeons, events, wvw, and even something as simple as a LFR tool to l shrink the amount of afk raiders waiting for a raid in VB.

Actually this isn’t really true at all. Consumers adapt all the time. Of course there are cases when they don’t also. But don’t fool yourself.

Selling in part, is convincing people to change their minds. Anet has done a bad job of selling a lot of the changes to the game. They’re devs, not sales people. But that doesn’t make the changes bad. Sometimes people are forced to adapt and end up better for it.

Tell me in ANYWAY why i should adapt. Dont tell me that people do tell me why i should? First people said WvW was dead coz HoT maps, now HoT maps and fractals and dungeons are dead because raids and Fallout 4. PEOPLE ARE NOT ADAPTING. They are leaving. This is the EXACT thing that happened to wildstar. The posts are almost word for word, even down to the euphemism for swearing, except there is was cupcake and here it is kitten.

Alot of people arent happy. That is not subjective, nearly all game forms have seen a drop and the forums are filled with complaints. There is a white knight crew telling people to adapt, or dont like it leave, or get good or get out. Its the exact thing that happened with wildstar. Where is wildstar now? Struggling to survive even as a comlete free to play game.

And to think i came here for the very REASON i didnt want to adapt to wildstar. Blaming the player for a bad or poorly recieved game is the first step of denial.

I voted with my wallet with wildstar, i voted with my wallet for WoD. I sure as hell have no problem voting with my wallet here. GW2 isnt a life necessity. There is 0 absolutely 0 reason to adapt to any form of entertainment product. OF ALL products on any market in the world entertainment is the WORST one to expect people to adapt to.

to A-net, email me when this crap gets figured out, i already stopped playing the game a week ago and ive seen this forum argument play out before. Guess who lost? Carbine, the makers of wildstar. NO ONE ELSE.

I’m pretty sure as many people came back as those that are leaving. In my guild, more people came back, and no one has left, so this whole people are leaving claim? Meaningless.

Yes, some people are playing Fall Out 4, like my son, but he’s almost done with it and he’ll be coming back to Guild Wars 2 very soon. He returned to play HoT and he’s enjoying it.

So if some people took a break because a bunch of new games came out, well that’s not that unusual. Many of them will be back.

WvW, I agree, is in a bad place. The rest of the game isn’t suffering though. Even if you think it is. You should look up confirmation bias.

sorry where is the confirmation bias in needing taxis to do 3 week old maps?
where is my personal bias of the dozens of threads of “maps are dead” that i have never posted in?

People were posting here that Silverwaste maps were dead when they weren’t dead, because they didn’t know how to use LFG tool.

I’m doing metas on the second map almost every day. It cant’ be that dead. And we almost got the meta a couple of times in VB today.

Confirmation bias is a funny thing. People are playing the content.

i swear if vaynes name was oliver, kitten was cupcake, you could take these forums and replace wildstars 9 months ago with them and no one would be able to tell the difference, does no one see this? does anet not see this? its the same bleeding company!

Pezz.4758:

i swear if vaynes name was oliver, kitten was cupcake, you could take these forums and replace wildstars 9 months ago with them and no one would be able to tell the difference, does no one see this? does anet not see this? its the same bleeding company!

This forum has been a nightmare for years. It’s not just recently. The fan base has been disenfranchised before. THere are people who don’t even play the game who come back to post and malign it.

This game isn’t like Wildstar for a lot of reasons. Wildstar had no existing fan base to begin with. It had a very bad launch. You can say anything you want, but most MMO forums are this bad.

Two years ago, people said the same kind of stuff. I guess we’ll see in six months, after the dust settles just how the game is doing.

This made my day.

Vayne.8563:

I’m pretty sure as many people came back as those that are leaving

<snip>

In my guild, more people came back, and no one has left, so this whole people are leaving claim? Meaningless.

<snip>

You should look up confirmation bias.

Oh, the irony.

In my guild, no one came back, by the way.

Manasa Devi.7958:

This made my day.

Vayne.8563:

In my guild, more people came back, and no one has left, so this whole people are leaving claim? Meaningless.

<snip>

You should look up confirmation bias.

Oh, the irony.

In my guild, no one came back, by the way.

It’s not irony because I never made a claim in the first place. That is to say, I didn’t come to the forums and say the game was dead or no one was playing or the zones were empty. I responded to someone else’s claim. You should learn the difference.

My claim is that in six moths, you’ll see the game is doing fine. We’ll see that in black and white and then what will you say?

For now, it’s enough to point out that saying something is dead doesn’t make it dead. In fact, I can point to threads about the game being dead that go back 3 years.

Ergo, claiming it is meaningless. When you have some actual data to prove it get back to me.

Now, had I posted a my own thread or something in another thread talking about how health they game was, that would indeed be hypocritical. However, I’m happy to wait to see sales figures before I make snap judgements.