Guild Wars 2

I am reposting this from a reply of mine in a different thread to plead with Anet NOT to add melee staves into Guild Wars 2. Ever.

The staves we have right now are basically decorative 2 handed foci/scepters and are simply not designed realistically to be used in melee combat.

First and foremost, look up the Bo staff. That is a real combat staff, a straight stick. That is all a martial staff should ever be. At the very most it may have metal bits on the end, but otherwise it MUST be a balanced and boring and otherwise plain as plain can be, long rod.

Adding ANYTHING more to said rod in melee combat removes all reason to keep calling it a martial staff. That extra anything, wherever and whatever it may be, instantly changes how the weapon must be wielded. And thus, polearms.

There are examples of casters in other games using polearms in place of staves, characters with magical affinity using spears/javelins and other weapons in conjunction with magic, and now lately, they just announced the Guardians will have a magical attack that uses a spear as its projectile animation.

Adding polearms eventually will solve the issue of our current staff selection being overwhelmingly too ornamental and imbalanced to make working melee weapons, and will add a weapon type that easily crosses borders between magic and non-magic users.

Adding melee moves onto staves now, however, would have Anet adding everything they need for a polearm weapon type into their game now, and poorly jury rigged to a selection of weapon skins that don’t fit the bill properly. It’s like scepters and maces, actually many of our scepter skins could be used as maces, and maces be used as scepters. Functionally, if built for combat, they are nearly identical items. Indeed, a short stick/rod is indistinguishable whether it’s a mace or a scepter. Clearly scepters are more ornamental in design and not usually used to bash people the way maces are. Exactly the same situation here with staves and polearms, the GW universe has defined staves as really big scepters, these things are ornamental and not designed to be used as melee weapons. Spears/tridents have been sent underwater only, and can stay there for functionality purposes, but the land spear/polearm is ultimately the mace to the staff’s scepter. The split allows for the differences to be accentuated and expanded on for skin diversity that defines how different these things are in practice.

So I plead: Don’t make the melee staff mistake now, it will be irreversible. Please wait for later, make polearms and do it right.

The professions that don’t have access to the staff are Engineer, Thief, Warrior and maybe Revenant. Could you see them using the staff as a magical or melee weapon? I don’t see the harm in bending the rules like they did when the Mesmer started to use a Greatsword as a ranged magical weapon. I could see them giving the melee use of a staff to the Warrior as an exclusive.

Besides the staff already has some skins that look like they could do some damage plus some ornamental ones. It even has skins that turn the staff into a scythe. They could always release a set of skins for the staff that turn them into military style polearms.

There probably will never be a new category of weapons that represent the polearm, since the staff and aquatic spear are already so close. Well at least until all the existing options are exhausted.

Even if they granted the melee use of the staff to one profession, I don’t see how that would ever rule out adding a polearm weapon type or turning the spear from aquatic to ground combat. It’s not irreversible, especially since you can’t give a melee staff to the Guardian and they would be one of the big names to benefit from polearms.

Inimicus.7162:

So I plead: Don’t make the melee staff mistake now, it will be irreversible. Please wait for later, make polearms and do it right.

I completely agree with this statement. Anet, if you want to make us fight with melee sticks, that’s fine in my book. However, make sure you do it right. The actual staff design is NOT made for clubbing people to death.

The only thing you will accomplish by using the actual staves as melee weapons is make GW2 look ridiculous. Which is something none of us want.

Melee staff already exists:

Even though its range is 1200, the staff for Mesmer is a close range weapon…When you use it at 140-180 range you’ll selfbuff (auto, chaos storn, chaos armor, phase retreat in your own fields for ADDITIONAL chaos armor by being able to proc your own chaos field(s) and benefit more from the shatters and clones. Of course you can stand at 1200 range np, But it will be way more weak then standing in melee range.

Considering the above making melee staff effectively integrated your request is probably wrong and should, IMHO, read: plea to reconsider “physical combat staff”.

Ugh a melee weapon is used in hand to hand combat, Mesmer staff is not. Irrelevant pedantry.

Anyways I’m actually kind of amused by the idea of the Revenant bludgeoning people with fancy ascended staffs.

VodCom.6924:

Inimicus.7162:

So I plead: Don’t make the melee staff mistake now, it will be irreversible. Please wait for later, make polearms and do it right.

I completely agree with this statement. Anet, if you want to make us fight with melee sticks, that’s fine in my book. However, make sure you do it right. The actual staff design is NOT made for clubbing people to death.

The only thing you will accomplish by using the actual staves as melee weapons is make GW2 look ridiculous. Which is something none of us want.

Well if the animations from the trailer are anything to go by, the animations look like hitting someone with a mace/club rather than using a staff. Which might make sense, seen as 90%+ of the avaiable staves are “top heavy”, but it just looked weird, to not say “bad”.

@OP – you just posted the exact same post in another thread talking about Revenant weapons and is on the front page at the time of this posting. This new thread seems a plea for attention at best. The topic is found here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Revenant-Weapon-speculation/first#post5054260

As to the topic, the primary point I can see is that you believe that the only viable “melee staff” is a plain stick. Although I do not disagree with you, there are a number of appropriate staff skins to be wielded. However the primary opposing argument to this is simple:
- Look at the existing skins we have for GS and Sword. Most of them are extremely awkwardly balanced to the point of being completely useless in combat (and some are wooden or even rubber).
-There are a large number of bows that could not function within the laws of physics.
-There are a few dagger skins that are held backwards (meaning all attacks would hit the enemy with the hilt).
- Many of the more decorative skins across the board look like they’d shatter if ever used properly (The Moot comes to mind as one).
- Finally, don’t get me started on how I can fire an obvious six-shooter hundreds of times without ever reloading.

I’m not saying all of these things are horrible or should be changed. I’m just saying that if you want to limit one weapon (melee staff) to realism and physics, then you can’t exclude all the other weapons from such logic. Personally I’m all for these things in a game, including the melee staff.

Look at:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tempest_weapon_skins

Notice anything? Yeah, none of them are realistic. This ship has already sailed. GW2 is a fantasy game, and it doesn’t much matter if in your expert opinion the staff weapon skins are not similar to a melee staff. Many of the weapons already are obviously just fanciful and not practical.

If it bothers you a lot, just tell yourself “its magic” and hopefully that will make it all right for you. Maybe you can post on the thread about how large undead dragons shouldn’t be able to fly as well (if you haven’t already)…

anyone remember friar’s from DAOC?

they made melee staff look awesome

Mordeus.1234:

The professions that don’t have access to the staff are Engineer, Thief, Warrior and maybe Revenant. Could you see them using the staff as a magical or melee weapon? I don’t see the harm in bending the rules like they did when the Mesmer started to use a Greatsword as a ranged magical weapon. I could see them giving the melee use of a staff to the Warrior as an exclusive.

Besides the staff already has some skins that look like they could do some damage plus some ornamental ones. It even has skins that turn the staff into a scythe. They could always release a set of skins for the staff that turn them into military style polearms.

There probably will never be a new category of weapons that represent the polearm, since the staff and aquatic spear are already so close. Well at least until all the existing options are exhausted.

Even if they granted the melee use of the staff to one profession, I don’t see how that would ever rule out adding a polearm weapon type or turning the spear from aquatic to ground combat. It’s not irreversible, especially since you can’t give a melee staff to the Guardian and they would be one of the big names to benefit from polearms.

They’re giving staff to the ranger elite: druid. This has been confirmed already.

As to the rest, I agree with A Volcano: It’s magic. That’s how they’re balanced.

Bo staves don’t have to be “plain sticks”. And we don’t even know if that’s what Anet is aiming for with melee staves. They could easily go for polearms instead.

This game already features princess wands and rubber scimitars as weapons. I think “realism” as far as weapon design goes went out the window a long time ago.

Inimicus.7162:

I am reposting this from a reply of mine in a different thread to plead with Anet NOT to add melee staves into Guild Wars 2. Ever.

The staves we have right now are basically decorative 2 handed foci/scepters and are simply not designed realistically to be used in melee combat.

This is where I pretty much lost any ability to take your request seriously.

Have you seen the weapons in this game? Where did you get the idea that realism was anywhere on the list of design goals ArenaNet has for weaponry?

Inimicus.7162:

I am reposting this from a reply of mine in a different thread to plead with Anet NOT to add melee staves into Guild Wars 2. Ever.

The staves we have right now are basically decorative 2 handed foci/scepters and are simply not designed realistically to be used in melee combat.

About 50-60% of actual melee weapons in GW2 are “simply not designed realistically to be used in melee combat.”. Maybe higher. So this is an utter failure of an argument.

VodCom.6924:

The only thing you will accomplish by using the actual staves as melee weapons is make GW2 look ridiculous. Which is something none of us want.

I agree with the op.
Staves used for magic and staves used for combat should be two completely separate weapons or not even considered at all.

Gibson.4036:

VodCom.6924:

The only thing you will accomplish by using the actual staves as melee weapons is make GW2 look ridiculous. Which is something none of us want.

What’s ridiculous about the 3rd picture? That’s a manly man. Did you not see the beard?

RabbitUp.8294:

What’s ridiculous about the 3rd picture? That’s a manly man. Did you not see the beard?

The scowl. It’s clear that someone with such a manly beard and dreads, that adonis physique, and impeccable fashion sense, would be deliriously happy.

Gibson.4036:

RabbitUp.8294:

What’s ridiculous about the 3rd picture? That’s a manly man. Did you not see the beard?

The scowl. It’s clear that someone with such a manly beard and dreads, that adonis physique, and impeccable fashion sense, would be very happy.

Can i take the guy in the fourth picture home?

As for this topic, most of the weapons used now arent going to be realistic for combat at least when it comes to greatswords, swords and a few of the other weapons…

Dante.1763:

Can i take the guy in the fourth picture home?

That’s what his outfit seems designed for.

Just to clarify, I’m not judging anything in any of those pictures for worthiness, just for ridiculousness in combat situations.

I suppose I should remove the Norn. He could be carefully calculating his look to inspire awe and terror.

;-)

Gibson.4036:

Dante.1763:

Can i take the guy in the fourth picture home?

That’s what his outfit seems designed for.

Just to clarify, I’m not judging anything in any of those pictures for worthiness, just for ridiculousness in combat situations.

I suppose I should remove the Norn. He could be carefully calculating his look to inspire awe and terror.

;-)

Oh i know that, but by far and away that outfit isnt to bad, so long as its on a mage class. Otherwise… that norn though, is by far and away not the weirdest? ive seen. i have nightmares of this one…wish i had taken screenshots but he wouldnt stay still. he was a clown..a CLOWN..a giant..multicolored..clown.

Gibson.4036:

That’s what his outfit seems designed for.

Just to clarify, I’m not judging anything in any of those pictures for worthiness, just for ridiculousness in combat situations.

I suppose I should remove the Norn. He could be carefully calculating his look to inspire awe and terror.

;)

Don’t worry, I know you weren’t judging them, I was just poking some fun. I know immersion can be important, but honestly, if I saw that Norn walking past me, I would crack a smile. It’s a game, people want to have fun, I would only hope he was using the Princess Wand to compliment that outfit

RabbitUp.8294:

I know immersion can be important, but honestly, if I saw that Norn walking past me, I would crack a smile. It’s a game, people want to have fun, I would only hope he was using the Princess Wand to compliment that outfit

I agree. While I find GW2 unusually immersive for a MMORPG due to the beautiful world and the way dynamic events work, it’s definitely not trying for serious lore, continuity, or deep immersion.

So many of you ignore the maces versus scepters argument. And there are several references to joke skins, which by nature excludes them from talk about form and function. I’d love to watch somebody do the Asura Hundred Blades animation with the nearest IRL counterpart to the Greatsaw…

In this case there are 2 items, maces and scepters that are distinguished from each other, in spite of being aesthetically the same, and would ultimately would be used the same way, and to the same ends, in melee combat. But they are separated. The scepter is a pure caster weapon and aside from 1 skill I can think of (Mesmer scepter block), never actually sees use as a true “melee” weapon. And the mace remains a melee only weapon, even when infused by whatever magic the Guardian and soon Revenant both possess. Why then should melee pole weapons (be it martial staves or polearms) be rolled together into a caster weapon set?

And again, go back to the skins themselves, scepters, even the joke skin princess wand somebody mentioned, are magical ornaments for casters to focus their magic through, and they look more like ornaments than something I would make a habit of bashing people with. Maces are bashing weapons and generally look like things you would want to use to bash somebody. Again, 2 weapons who’s looks are generally defined as being arm’s length or less, and generally ending with something fancy on the opposite end of where they are held.

Maces and scepters are segregated by looks according to their function, and it makes sense a weapon meant for striking things should be different also from what amounts to a longer scepter skin. The existing skins of staves are at least as ceremonial/ornamental as their shorter scepter counterparts, and only about 3 MIGHT be, useable (visually balanced enough for use) as staves, in melee combat. Ultimately it’s about preserving some distinctions about how a weapon “looks” whether actually realistic or not (10 foot long butter knife greatswords), and how it functions. Staves have not been designed with the looks for melee combat anymore than scepters have, and I wish that separation be preserved by splitting “long rod” weapons (staff/polearm/hammer) the same way they did “short rod” (mace/scepter), by leaving the melee attacks to weapons that look like they belong in a melee weapon category.

Best case scenario is that they will turn staves into hammer stand-ins, which would save the potential for polearms later, but even this would still look really awkward, for all the same reasons.

INB4: Channeling magic through a melee weapon to deal ranged damage as Mesmers or even Revenants with their hammer, no different from using a scepter/staff, it is only a substitution skin that does something kind of unusual, but even in the context of magic isn’t as far out of bounds as repeatedly smashing somebody with a princess wand, or the winged staff.

RabbitUp.8294:

Gibson.4036:

That’s what his outfit seems designed for.

Just to clarify, I’m not judging anything in any of those pictures for worthiness, just for ridiculousness in combat situations.

I suppose I should remove the Norn. He could be carefully calculating his look to inspire awe and terror.

;)

Don’t worry, I know you weren’t judging them, I was just poking some fun. I know immersion can be important, but honestly, if I saw that Norn walking past me, I would crack a smile. It’s a game, people want to have fun, I would only hope he was using the Princess Wand to compliment that outfit

I’ve followed Ronald Mcdonnald’s evil twin as he commanded an Eotm train more than a few times…

I get that some people want to look silly, but it isn’t as if there’s no room for silly in a polearm weapon type…. I can think of all kinds of things one could put on the end of a pole for a joke… GW2 Banana Spear to match Banana Scythe of GW1?

Invictus.1503:

@OP – you just posted the exact same post in another thread talking about Revenant weapons and is on the front page at the time of this posting. This new thread seems a plea for attention at best. The topic is found here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Revenant-Weapon-speculation/first#post5054260

As to the topic, the primary point I can see is that you believe that the only viable “melee staff” is a plain stick. Although I do not disagree with you, there are a number of appropriate staff skins to be wielded. However the primary opposing argument to this is simple:
- Look at the existing skins we have for GS and Sword. Most of them are extremely awkwardly balanced to the point of being completely useless in combat (and some are wooden or even rubber).
-There are a large number of bows that could not function within the laws of physics.
-There are a few dagger skins that are held backwards (meaning all attacks would hit the enemy with the hilt).
- Many of the more decorative skins across the board look like they’d shatter if ever used properly (The Moot comes to mind as one).
- Finally, don’t get me started on how I can fire an obvious six-shooter hundreds of times without ever reloading.

I’m not saying all of these things are horrible or should be changed. I’m just saying that if you want to limit one weapon (melee staff) to realism and physics, then you can’t exclude all the other weapons from such logic. Personally I’m all for these things in a game, including the melee staff.

After writing it there, I felt it was important enough to be made into it’s own thread.

There are joke weapon skins that I don’t even consider when asking things like this, this includes The Moot, in spite of it’s legendary status.

I can’t explain people’s fascination with designing (and using) 10′×2′ butter knives that happen to carry the greatsword classification, in fact I personally lump these into the joke weapon category also. Absolute nonsense. However, I could make the argument that many of them, if scaled back to more reasonable sizes would actually be within the realms of plausible if you could make an IRL counterpart to them. While I don’t like them in the least, I can tolerate their presence as being an RPG culture thing since the “Buster Sword” first appeared.

The bows… yea, to go with armor and many other things… For those, as long as they are bow shaped, and not turned backwards and used like those klingon crescent sword things, I don’t mind them existing. I see gw2 staves being used in melee in this same light actually, though if they made a polearm weapon type, the moves might actually be close enough to add that silly klingon thing there. (Tho i’d rather not, only point out it’s possible)

Holding daggers underhanded is “cool looking” but outside of some specific circumstances, you will better served to carry your blade overhand. This applies to swords too. (I’m looking at YOU GW1 Tengu…)

As to the decorative skins… This is the hardest one to answer tbh. Yes, the more realistic but decorative skins would not stand up in combat, but then again a lot of us run around with not 1 scar or bruise, half naked, wearing flowing pink and/or snow-white garments that never get dirty, bright pink and purple hair/eyes, play non-human characters, create and play magazine quality models, and some of us can go into total stealth, in the middle of combat, while people are watching and while our torches and incinerators are still very much lit……

I understand there is a great degree of fantasy and artistic license in all this. I’m not asking for full on realism, as that would be rather ugly and boring. But given the role of the items we are speaking of, I do feel a deep desire for the things to have a visual identity that generally matches that roll, or comes close enough. In this specific case, staves as we have them now, being used as polearms or possibly hammer stand-ins, is nonsensical enough that I can’t readily write off just how weird this is going to look. If it comes to pass, and I say again, I hope they hold on this until they have something that can look more fitting doing it.

The staff could form a holographic axe, hammer, spear or halberd head like the necro’s scythe. Said staff could then be used to bash/chop/stab baddies.

Seems like the simplest approach, rather than making melee staves a completely separate weapon from caster staves, would be to introduce some plain melee staff skins for you.

My thought is that if it’s a distinct weapon, either ArenaNet has to get busy and make a ton of melee staff skins or restrict melee staff users to a very small range of visual options.

If they do a half dozen melee staff skins with the introduction of melee staff specializations, but keep them as the same weapon as caster staves, then every user can decide for herself whether she wants to thump people with a Bo or The Bifrost.

Other than the issue of having to generate a lot of new skins or having a limited variety of melee staff skins, making them two distinct weapon types also has an impact on loot tables, creating one more type and decreasing the chance of getting one your character can use. It also means designing and adding an additional new legendary.

I completely agree—realism should be the ultimate goal with weapon design in this game. I can’t have my giant cat monster hit that walking, talking tree guy over there with a flimsy-looking magical staff, it has to be a dense, hearty battle staff.

Inimicus.7162:

Invictus.1503:

@OP – you just posted the exact same post in another thread talking about Revenant weapons and is on the front page at the time of this posting. This new thread seems a plea for attention at best. The topic is found here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Revenant-Weapon-speculation/first#post5054260

As to the topic, the primary point I can see is that you believe that the only viable “melee staff” is a plain stick. Although I do not disagree with you, there are a number of appropriate staff skins to be wielded. However the primary opposing argument to this is simple:
- Look at the existing skins we have for GS and Sword. Most of them are extremely awkwardly balanced to the point of being completely useless in combat (and some are wooden or even rubber).
-There are a large number of bows that could not function within the laws of physics.
-There are a few dagger skins that are held backwards (meaning all attacks would hit the enemy with the hilt).
- Many of the more decorative skins across the board look like they’d shatter if ever used properly (The Moot comes to mind as one).
- Finally, don’t get me started on how I can fire an obvious six-shooter hundreds of times without ever reloading.

I’m not saying all of these things are horrible or should be changed. I’m just saying that if you want to limit one weapon (melee staff) to realism and physics, then you can’t exclude all the other weapons from such logic. Personally I’m all for these things in a game, including the melee staff.

After writing it there, I felt it was important enough to be made into it’s own thread.

There are joke weapon skins that I don’t even consider when asking things like this, this includes The Moot, in spite of it’s legendary status.

I can’t explain people’s fascination with designing (and using) 10′×2′ butter knives that happen to carry the greatsword classification, in fact I personally lump these into the joke weapon category also. Absolute nonsense. However, I could make the argument that many of them, if scaled back to more reasonable sizes would actually be within the realms of plausible if you could make an IRL counterpart to them. While I don’t like them in the least, I can tolerate their presence as being an RPG culture thing since the “Buster Sword” first appeared.

The bows… yea, to go with armor and many other things… For those, as long as they are bow shaped, and not turned backwards and used like those klingon crescent sword things, I don’t mind them existing. I see gw2 staves being used in melee in this same light actually, though if they made a polearm weapon type, the moves might actually be close enough to add that silly klingon thing there. (Tho i’d rather not, only point out it’s possible)

Holding daggers underhanded is “cool looking” but outside of some specific circumstances, you will better served to carry your blade overhand. This applies to swords too. (I’m looking at YOU GW1 Tengu…)

As to the decorative skins… This is the hardest one to answer tbh. Yes, the more realistic but decorative skins would not stand up in combat, but then again a lot of us run around with not 1 scar or bruise, half naked, wearing flowing pink and/or snow-white garments that never get dirty, bright pink and purple hair/eyes, play non-human characters, create and play magazine quality models, and some of us can go into total stealth, in the middle of combat, while people are watching and while our torches and incinerators are still very much lit……

I understand there is a great degree of fantasy and artistic license in all this. I’m not asking for full on realism, as that would be rather ugly and boring. But given the role of the items we are speaking of, I do feel a deep desire for the things to have a visual identity that generally matches that roll, or comes close enough. In this specific case, staves as we have them now, being used as polearms or possibly hammer stand-ins, is nonsensical enough that I can’t readily write off just how weird this is going to look. If it comes to pass, and I say again, I hope they hold on this until they have something that can look more fitting doing it.

Sorry for breaking your immersion, but I’m going to continue killing people with my planetarium scepter and eagerly await the use of staff as a melee weapon.

Black Box.9312:

Sorry for breaking your immersion, but I’m going to continue killing people with my planetarium scepter and eagerly await the use of staff as a melee weapon.

So that i can beat people over the head with my lantern staff! (the crossing)

Please. Have you seen what a real sword looks like. Or a real combat axe? Or a warhammer? They’re all relatively small and light, because a weapon has to be fast. What we have in the game are fantastical abominations that wouldn’t be usable IRL.

I’m more concerned about the stance. Human male, for example, stands very awkwardly and swinging from that posture will look really strange.

I treat guardian staff as a melee weapon: I only use it for close range combat. Pretty much every weapon in this game is used to channel some form of magic — thus they are each some sort of “focus” (in the traditional, not the GW2 sense) and I don’t think there’s any special connection between how the weapon gets used on planet Earth (or traditional fantasy lit, media, or games) and how it gets used in Tyria.

• Revenant hammers are ranged. (And guardian hammers do more than localized physical damage.)
• Mesmer greatswords are ranged. (And guardian GS do more than localized physical damage.)
• Ranger warhorns summon birds.
• Elementalist daggers shoot flames and bolts.

Tyria need only be self-consistent; it doesn’t need to be consistent with Earth lore (nor, in my strong opinion, should it).

MattyP.6954:

I completely agree—realism should be the ultimate goal with weapon design in this game. I can’t have my giant cat monster hit that walking, talking tree guy over there with a flimsy-looking magical staff, it has to be a dense, hearty battle staff.

Inimicus.7162:

I understand there is a great degree of fantasy and artistic license in all this. I’m not asking for full on realism, as that would be rather ugly and boring. But given the role of the items we are speaking of, I do feel a deep desire for the things to have a visual identity that generally matches that roll, or comes close enough.

Gibson.4036:

Other than the issue of having to generate a lot of new skins or having a limited variety of melee staff skins, making them two distinct weapon types also has an impact on loot tables, creating one more type and decreasing the chance of getting one your character can use. It also means designing and adding an additional new legendary.

Post is about why staves should not be melee weapons, and asking instead they wait and add polearms. They could put martial staves into the polearm weapon class, which, though limiting, is not totally out of bounds for the style of use.

The loot tables are a non-issue. As it is, if you open a loot box that isn’t required by hard coding to yield more, your average result is still, and likely will always be, about 2 blues and a green, maybe 2 greens. On the TP a new weapon type would spike in price in the short term, but eventually level out for blue/green gear if you are worried for people leveling.

They already are designing and adding new legendary weapons. They recently added yet another set of weapon skins to the BL vendor and yet another outfit. It’s just another skin, they do this often, and the collections for making it are completely arbitrary to what they make you go find, which means there’s no need to have to design anything else to make it a reality. Being a newer weapon, they don’t even need to “make up for the extra legendary skin” that the weapons we had since launch will have.

Gibson.4036:

Seems like the simplest approach, rather than making melee staves a completely separate weapon from caster staves, would be to introduce some plain melee staff skins for you.

My thought is that if it’s a distinct weapon, either ArenaNet has to get busy and make a ton of melee staff skins or restrict melee staff users to a very small range of visual options.

If they do a half dozen melee staff skins with the introduction of melee staff specializations, but keep them as the same weapon as caster staves, then every user can decide for herself whether she wants to thump people with a Bo or The Bifrost.

Throwing plain old vanilla staves into the staff category would be okay, as GW1 had a basic Bo staff skin, but not as melee weapons, it doesn’t resolve my beef. For what it’s worth, they later took that Bo skin and put it onto a scythe weapon (polearm) and it looked good, better than scythes in many ways.

If they want to mix some skins between polearm/staff for start that’s fine, but only ones that can be reasonably excused for use in place of a melee weapon. Of which there are few. And for functionality, melee staff skins (to be use in melee combat) would fall under the polearm category. Back to scepters and maces, another distinction between the two currently is that scepters auto cast ranged skills, maces do not auto at range, and indeed only 1 mace skill I can think of even reaches a long distance beyond melee range. Staves currently, similar to scepters are ranged weapons (even at melee range), and again, they are ornamental caster weapons as they exist now, leaving room for a martial counterpart, that would include a whole lot more than just simple staves. The caster weapon type could carry simple staff skins (actual simple staff skins), but the caster weapons we have now, just don’t look right for being used as bashing weapons.

And to creating new skins… They would remove the melee staff thing in HoT, and add polearms and such later. They are capable of making a bunch of skins and releasing them all at the same time, happens every 6-8 weeks or so (not sure exactly tbh) with BL weapon skins. And they wouldn’t need retrofit any of their BL claim ticket weapon sets to add these things unless they are just jonesing for a way to bring them back.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I treat guardian staff as a melee weapon: I only use it for close range combat. Pretty much every weapon in this game is used to channel some form of magic — thus they are each some sort of “focus” (in the traditional, not the GW2 sense) and I don’t think there’s any special connection between how the weapon gets used on planet Earth (or traditional fantasy lit, media, or games) and how it gets used in Tyria.

• Revenant hammers are ranged. (And guardian hammers do more than localized physical damage.)
• Mesmer greatswords are ranged. (And guardian GS do more than localized physical damage.)
• Ranger warhorns summon birds.
• Elementalist daggers shoot flames and bolts.

Tyria need only be self-consistent; it doesn’t need to be consistent with Earth lore (nor, in my strong opinion, should it).

The guard staff auto attack reaches out far enough beyond the reach of the weapon itself, while it isn’t truly “ranged” it certainly doesn’t fit the bill of “melee” either.

And taking a normal weapon and causing it to do weird things with magic isn’t the issue. The normal weapon becomes a stand in weapon for a caster weapon. See Age of Conan’s Tempest of Set class, who carries a polearm instead of a staff. Taking magic and using it to throw a hammer farther than it should ever go being simply thrown or channeling a pink death ray through a greatsword, or causing your GS to release a small storm of swirly blue death are all within the realms of possibilities because these things don’t blatantly exceed a reasonable (even within the realms of fantasy) expectation of performance with the items in question. Again, staves as we have now are fancy ornamented caster sticks, and should remain there. To take the “Staff” into melee combat, it would be best suited to place martial staff skins into a category that holds other long hafted weapons. Since we already have hammers, this would then be polearms, which in practice are more true to form of martial staves than hammers would be, and while a vanilla staff isn’t regarded as a polearm in the same way spears, halberds and naginata-like weapons are, if there is a name that could include all non-hammer, long hafted weapons with or without pointy/stabby/hacky/slashy bits, that would be even better.

Inimicus.7162:

MattyP.6954:

I completely agree—realism should be the ultimate goal with weapon design in this game. I can’t have my giant cat monster hit that walking, talking tree guy over there with a flimsy-looking magical staff, it has to be a dense, hearty battle staff.

[…]

Post is about why staves should not be melee weapons, and asking instead they wait and add polearms. They could put martial staves into the polearm weapon class, which, though limiting, is not totally out of bounds for the style of use.

[…]

And to creating new skins… They would remove the melee staff thing in HoT, and add polearms and such later. They are capable of making a bunch of skins and releasing them all at the same time, happens every 6-8 weeks or so (not sure exactly tbh) with BL weapon skins. And they wouldn’t need retrofit any of their BL claim ticket weapon sets to add these things unless they are just jonesing for a way to bring them back.

A quarterstaff/bo is not a Polearm, does not handle like a Polearm in combat, and basically has nothing to do with Polearms.

Now, if you wanted to add a Quarterstaff weapon-type to the game, that would be something, but it would have extremely limited use in-game (I can only think of 3 professions where it would fit, thematically).

Frankly, I think that this is a lot of worry over nothing. Here are some reasons!

1. Melee =/= martial. You can have melee-range magical attacks.
2. If you don’t want to hit people with a flimsy magic-type staff, then use a different, sturdier-looking skin.
3. We don’t have size distinctions for other weapons. As an example, swords encompass long swords, short swords, rapiers, and scimitars, and they’re all considered swords (the assumption being that they all are functionally identical; eg not greatswords). The distinction between long staff and quarterstaff is unnecessary
4. If the idea of a melee staff offends you so, then don’t use it—no one will ban your account for not using a weapon you don’t like.
5. For the realism aspect… well, Quip shoots bubbles., and there’s a greatsword skin that is literally a collection or rocks that are suspended in some sort of Greatsword shape by… magic maybe?

MattyP.6954:

A quarterstaff/bo is not a Polearm, does not handle like a Polearm in combat, and basically has nothing to do with Polearms.

True. But for those who want a melee staff weapon, this suggestion is more of a compromise.

MattyP.6954:

1. We don’t have size distinctions for other weapons. As an example, swords encompass long swords, short swords, rapiers, and scimitars, and they’re all considered swords (the assumption being that they all are functionally identical; eg not greatswords). The distinction between long staff and quarterstaff is unnecessary

You’ve repeatedly missed one of the key arguments then. See my thoughts on mace vs scepter as it relates to staves vs polearms.

MattyP.6954:

Melee =/= martial. You can have melee-range magical attacks.

This is a red herring as there are already examples of spells being applied in melee range or via melee weapons, and is not the issue at hand.
I was responding to a comment about he guard’s staff auto attack which an intermediate range attack, outside of “melee range” but not in league with bows or guns.
Use of the word ‘martial’ is to describe that a combat weapon that will be used in melee combat, be it a staff/polearm or any other, isn’t going to have all that fragile looking decor of caster weapons like our current selection of staves, or scepters. Refer to my posts where I speak of the differences (and visual similarities) between mace vs scepter skins in reference to this.

MattyP.6954:

For the realism aspect… well, Quip shoots bubbles., and there’s a greatsword skin that is literally a collection or rocks that are suspended in some sort of Greatsword shape by… magic maybe?

Remember what I said about joke skins? Or my comment about 10 foot long butter knives? Please refrain from using troll statements as arguments, and read my comments as this has already been gone over.

Inimicus.7162:

MattyP.6954:

A quarterstaff/bo is not a Polearm, does not handle like a Polearm in combat, and basically has nothing to do with Polearms.

True. But for those who want a melee staff weapon, this suggestion is more of a compromise.

MattyP.6954:

1. We don’t have size distinctions for other weapons. As an example, swords encompass long swords, short swords, rapiers, and scimitars, and they’re all considered swords (the assumption being that they all are functionally identical; eg not greatswords). The distinction between long staff and quarterstaff is unnecessary

You’ve repeatedly missed one of the key arguments then. See my thoughts on mace vs scepter as it relates to staves vs polearms.

MattyP.6954:

Melee =/= martial. You can have melee-range magical attacks.

This is a red herring as there are already examples of spells being applied in melee range or via melee weapons, and is not the issue at hand.
I was responding to a comment about he guard’s staff auto attack which an intermediate range attack, outside of “melee range” but not in league with bows or guns.
Use of the word ‘martial’ is to describe that a combat weapon that will be used in melee combat, be it a staff/polearm or any other, isn’t going to have all that fragile looking decor of caster weapons like our current selection of staves, or scepters. Refer to my posts where I speak of the differences (and visual similarities) between mace vs scepter skins in reference to this.

MattyP.6954:

For the realism aspect… well, Quip shoots bubbles., and there’s a greatsword skin that is literally a collection or rocks that are suspended in some sort of Greatsword shape by… magic maybe?

Remember what I said about joke skins? Or my comment about 10 foot long butter knives? Please refrain from using troll statements as arguments, and read my comments as this has already been gone over.

Legendaries are a joke?

P.S.—The skins comment is not a trolling comment. It was merely the use of sarcasm to demonstrate your wrongness. Frankly, it was a quip involving Quip… so… a Quip Quip?

Why isn’t the Revenant allowed to do magic spins and shoot magic out of a staff? It will be like Avatar The Last Airbender or something.

Oh man, I can’t wait to decapitate someone with Final Rest.

Inimicus.7162:

So many of you ignore the maces versus scepters argument.

You ignore the Staff vs Greatsword/Hammer argument. If it was this necessary to restrict weapons to physical and magical roles, we wouldn’t have the Mesmer Greatsword and Revenant Hammer.

The existing skins of staves are at least as ceremonial/ornamental as their shorter scepter counterparts, and only about 3 MIGHT be, useable (visually balanced enough for use) as staves, in melee combat.

I can count a lot more than that. There are skins that feature no baubles of any kind, just a wooden stick with a metal head.

How’s this (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/0/04/Guild_Pillar.jpg) not a good enough polearm?

There are even 2 or 3 scythes available.

RabbitUp.8294:

Inimicus.7162:

So many of you ignore the maces versus scepters argument.

You ignore the Staff vs Greatsword/Hammer argument. If it was this necessary to restrict weapons to physical and magical roles, we wouldn’t have the Mesmer Greatsword and Revenant Staff.

Not ignored. The answer seems to be it’s okay for a magic user to use a physical weapon to channel magic through, but it’s not okay for a physical fighter to thunk someone with a weapon designed to channel magic.

Inimicus.7162:

So many of you ignore the maces versus scepters argument. And there are several references to joke skins, which by nature excludes them from talk about form and function. I’d love to watch somebody do the Asura Hundred Blades animation with the nearest IRL counterpart to the Greatsaw…

.

No, it doesnt exclude them.
If you are going to talk about a realistic effect you’re going to take into account everything.
From the jokes skins to the realistic skins.
Hint:
If this game was going to have any type of realistic effect we wouldn’t have magic or talking cowcats.
You can’t expect to say " its ok to channel magic through a physical weapon, but not ok for magical weapons to be used as physical weapons"

The argument on we need more realistic weapons is a horse that has been dead since release.
No it wont change, yes revenants are getting staves. Yes you will have to deal with it or not play a rev with a staff.

Also

No one has brought up Axes or even shields.

Solori.6025:

Inimicus.7162:

So many of you ignore the maces versus scepters argument. And there are several references to joke skins, which by nature excludes them from talk about form and function. I’d love to watch somebody do the Asura Hundred Blades animation with the nearest IRL counterpart to the Greatsaw…

.

No, it doesnt exclude them.
If you are going to talk about a realistic effect you’re going to take into account everything.
From the jokes skins to the realistic skins.
Hint:
If this game was going to have any type of realistic effect we wouldn’t have magic or talking cowcats.
You can’t expect to say " its ok to channel magic through a physical weapon, but not ok for magical weapons to be used as physical weapons"

The argument on we need more realistic weapons is a horse that has been dead since release.
No it wont change, yes revenants are getting staves. Yes you will have to deal with it or not play a rev with a staff.

Also

No one has brought up Axes or even shields.

I for one, am baffled by Anet’s Axe design on rangers. I mean my Ranger throws his axe, but still has one in his hand. WHAT KIND OF SORCERY IS THIS?!?!11?

@ OP

You wanted polearms, yes? Isn’t that what spears are right now?

I would loooooove to have thief spear on land. BRING ON THE LAND SPEARS!

What exactly defines the line between a regular skin and a “joke” skin?

Are the pearl weapons joke, or non-joke skins?

I’d love to see a melee staff, especially for warrior. We can already pick up Banners and smack people with them.

So Staffs as Meelee Weapons are not realistic? Ever looked at the Greatsword Skins?. Most of them are giant oversized Paddles and would be useless in combat if we are going for Realism, and no these things are not Joke Skins or are you saying that 80% of the Greatsword Skins are Joke Skins?

If we compare the more realistic Skins to the Staff Skins than well I don’t see a Problem with Staffs being used as a Melee Weapon. Proportionwise the Staffs are one of the most realistic Weapon Skins in the Game. They only seem small or thin due to Weapon Skins that are clearly oversized

Where is the Problem with Staffs as Melee Weapons? It’s not like they would break easily in a Combat.

Keyce.8137:

@ OP

You wanted polearms, yes? Isn’t that what spears are right now?

I would loooooove to have thief spear on land. BRING ON THE LAND SPEARS!

More than just spears, the spear is a specific type of polearm but not the only one. Polearms include other weapon heads mounted to long hafts, like axes, picks, spear tips ofc, and even sword blades and more exotic stuff on some. The skills in melee combat with such a thing would mostly be defined by motions to use the weaponry mounted on the sides of the half rather than the tip. Which would put thrusting moves to a minimum, and basic spears would me mostly out of the question for realism (though not likely to be left out since spears are rather iconic). Don’t forget there is always a shot at play with the butt spike.