Guild Wars 2

I would like to access the area dragons stand without having 15 people on the map. Its been dead 3 times i got there. If the whole point of guild wars 2 was for everything to be fun and convenient please make it so. I do not need to kill the dragon, but i would like to get all of the vistas and Poi.

http://dulfy.net/2015/11/09/gw2-hot-maps-timer-famme/

Show up about 5 min before the map resets and join a squad.

First that is boring you should be able to go to the map at anytime and enjoy it. Second I shouldn’t have to go to another website to find out how to enjoy a part of the game.

Lunarian.3947:

First that is boring you should be able to go to the map at anytime and enjoy it. Second I shouldn’t have to go to another website to find out how to enjoy a part of the game.

You can go at any time and enjoy the 80% of the map that doesn’t need meta progression. You don’t have to use that website as you can simply go to a map and look at the timer. This is just easier.

Ayrilana.1396:

Lunarian.3947:

First that is boring you should be able to go to the map at anytime and enjoy it. Second I shouldn’t have to go to another website to find out how to enjoy a part of the game.

You can go at any time and enjoy the 80% of the map that doesn’t need meta progression. You don’t have to use that website as you can simply go to a map and look at the timer. This is just easier.

To add to this, check LFG for maps that are doing the meta, for the last of the points that you need. You don’t have to take part in the meta, but there really isn’t much else to do there, besides that.

Until gliding came along you needed to complete the meta in SW to get a skill point and POI. You also needed to complete a good portion of a JP (or fall very precisely to your death) to get a POI in SW. Locking large portions of a map, or progression of any sort behind things people don’t find fun isn’t a new concept in this game. Patience on the other hand has always been a problem.

So none of these arguments mean anything…. its inconvenient the whole purpose in guild wars 2, if you watched the video when it was coming out, was to be a new fun game where players could enjoy themselves without tons of inconveniences. I understand that stuff like legendary weapons and ascended items are going to be a grind and stuff to get but just let me access the rest of the map. Not a big deal or concept. Saying well this map sucks to doesn’t solve the problem, if lame maps isnt a new concept then perhaps they should fix the issue.

Dragon’s Stand is more of a massive world boss than a ‘map’, complete with the two-hour timer. You can’t fight Shadow Behemoth whenever you just want to – the same is true for Dragon’s Stand.

Lunarian.3947:

So none of these arguments mean anything…. its inconvenient the whole purpose in guild wars 2, if you watched the video when it was coming out, was to be a new fun game where players could enjoy themselves without tons of inconveniences. I understand that stuff like legendary weapons and ascended items are going to be a grind and stuff to get but just let me access the rest of the map. Not a big deal or concept. Saying well this map sucks to doesn’t solve the problem, if lame maps isnt a new concept then perhaps they should fix the issue.

I mean, inconveniences are subjective. They never specifically labeled any inconvenience, just that you would be able to log in and play, and that is as true today as it was then. They never said you could just log in and immediately complete your goals.

It’s meant to be fun but it was never meant to be convenient. I mean let’s be real here, if u played the meta-events b4 the QoL patch last year you wouldnt complain now.

Back then even the rewards were gated behind participation AND u had to com plete the meta just to shop from a vendor. I usually had to do dragonstand 2-3 times to complete a specialization collection cause the vendor was locked.

You can get 85% of the map without the meta being in progress and have been able to do for almost a year. That’s not as good as most maps, but it’s as good as the other HoT maps and only slightly worse than map completion on some of the new ones.

I wouldn’t mind ANet changing it so there’s some way to get 100% of every map without waiting for a meta to complete. And I certainly hope that in the future, they reduce the amount of gating-for-gating’s sake in the game. All the same, I don’t think it’s worth their time to worry about changing DS again.

I never felt like Dragon’s Stand was designed with a lot of foresight in mind. Every map needs to be imagined with the scenario that it will one day be dead, with virtually no one doing it. The reason is just the sheer number of maps and the churning out of new maps, which automatically tend to take the majority of map population due to being new.

Over time, it becomes harder and harder to access the content on a map tied to group stuff and the design idea that players can organically be a part of the content and complete it gets mucked up.

One way to alleviate this problem would be to put strong weekly or daily focus on particular maps. Something very in-your-face and easy to notice when you log in that indicates that it would be a wise idea to do X map today because you’ll get a lot better rewards than doing the other maps (things like double XP, for instance, or better drop rates for rare items). This could include a lot of older maps and would give people a more organic way to slip into content they need, without detailed planning and monitoring timers.

Some people have schedules clear enough for detailed planning and monitoring timers, but for some, the organic design is vital because they just log in when they can and play when they can, and if the content isn’t available when they can play, they’re out of luck.

Labjax.2465:

I never felt like Dragon’s Stand was designed with a lot of foresight in mind. Every map needs to be imagined with the scenario that it will one day be dead, with virtually no one doing it. The reason is just the sheer number of maps and the churning out of new maps, which automatically tend to take the majority of map population due to being new.

Over time, it becomes harder and harder to access the content on a map tied to group stuff and the design idea that players can organically be a part of the content and complete it gets mucked up.

One way to alleviate this problem would be to put strong weekly or daily focus on particular maps. Something very in-your-face and easy to notice when you log in that indicates that it would be a wise idea to do X map today because you’ll get a lot better rewards than doing the other maps (things like double XP, for instance, or better drop rates for rare items). This could include a lot of older maps and would give people a more organic way to slip into content they need, without detailed planning and monitoring timers.

Some people have schedules clear enough for detailed planning and monitoring timers, but for some, the organic design is vital because they just log in when they can and play when they can, and if the content isn’t available when they can play, they’re out of luck.

“Daily Dragon’s Stand Event Completer” is already a thing. And, it’s on a World-Boss-Style timer, so it’s easy to LFG for.

HazyDaisy.4107:

Until gliding came along you needed to complete the meta in SW to get a skill point and POI. You also needed to complete a good portion of a JP (or fall very precisely to your death) to get a POI in SW. Locking large portions of a map, or progression of any sort behind things people don’t find fun isn’t a new concept in this game. Patience on the other hand has always been a problem.

The VW PoI can be done solo even without gliding since you just need to be able to run in and you can get that far soloing the forts. Haven’t ever had the need to check if you can also get the HP that way.

As for the PoI in the puzzle that doesn’t need much precision either. Just get the first milestone then turn around and jump off the cliff. Die then get ress by the skritt and repeat until you are on the floor of the cavern then you just run over to Sand Dunes Cavern PoI.

You seem like you spent more than 5 mins in SW figuring all these loopholes out, rather than coming to the boards asking for a nerf. Kudos!

There are loopholes in DS as well, but they require doing the meta atleast once and even then still won’t get 100%.

HazyDaisy.4107:

You seem like you spent more than 5 mins in SW figuring all these loopholes out, rather than coming to the boards asking for a nerf. Kudos!

There are loopholes in DS as well, but they require doing the meta atleast once and even then still won’t get 100%.

Actually a single DS meta is enough to make 100% map completion on it. I’ve done it recently, twice. It’s the easiest HoT map to get completion on.

Yeah. The only parts locked behind the meta are what’s at the towers and the final area. The rest got made available with the April update last year. You technically coukd get everything from those areas without the meta but you may or may not get actioned against.

Finding yourself on wyvren hill during an active meta is as about as illegal as forgetting to wp before you logged off after you’d completed your meta.

Being there still requires that you did the meta, and unless you’d gotten everything back there before you logged off, you wouldn’t get 100%. If you decided to help others get back there, they still couldn’t get 100%, because from wyvren hill, there are 4 things behind those gates require a successful meta.

Opening the gates all the time wouldn’t help either, because the 3 towers have to be secured in order for them to be communed with, the boss chest hill is only accessible via updraft after a boss kill and wyvren hill is only accessible from the boss hill.

HazyDaisy.4107:

Finding yourself on wyvren hill during an active meta is as about as illegal as forgetting to wp before you logged off after you’d completed your meta.

Being there still requires that you did the meta, and unless you’d gotten everything back there before you logged off, you wouldn’t get 100%. If you decided to help others get back there, they still couldn’t get 100%, because from wyvren hill, there are 4 things behind those gates require a successful meta.

Opening the gates all the time wouldn’t help either, because the 3 towers have to be secured in order for them to be communed with, the boss chest hill is only accessible via updraft after a boss kill and wyvren hill is only accessible from the boss hill.

There have been some posts about breaking out of the map in DS. That might let you get to places without doing any of the meta.

Labjax.2465:

I never felt like Dragon’s Stand was designed with a lot of foresight in mind. Every map needs to be imagined with the scenario that it will one day be dead, with virtually no one doing it. The reason is just the sheer number of maps and the churning out of new maps, which automatically tend to take the majority of map population due to being new.

One side I would like to point out about this, Dragon’s Stand is the ONLY way to get Crystalline Ore, which is needed for both the 2nd Generation Legendary Weapons (Gift of Maguuma Mastery) as well as for Legendary Armor (Crystalline Heart) so I find it hard that the map will just die out and be dead.

Sartharina.3542:

Labjax.2465:

I never felt like Dragon’s Stand was designed with a lot of foresight in mind. Every map needs to be imagined with the scenario that it will one day be dead, with virtually no one doing it. The reason is just the sheer number of maps and the churning out of new maps, which automatically tend to take the majority of map population due to being new.

Over time, it becomes harder and harder to access the content on a map tied to group stuff and the design idea that players can organically be a part of the content and complete it gets mucked up.

One way to alleviate this problem would be to put strong weekly or daily focus on particular maps. Something very in-your-face and easy to notice when you log in that indicates that it would be a wise idea to do X map today because you’ll get a lot better rewards than doing the other maps (things like double XP, for instance, or better drop rates for rare items). This could include a lot of older maps and would give people a more organic way to slip into content they need, without detailed planning and monitoring timers.

Some people have schedules clear enough for detailed planning and monitoring timers, but for some, the organic design is vital because they just log in when they can and play when they can, and if the content isn’t available when they can play, they’re out of luck.

“Daily Dragon’s Stand Event Completer” is already a thing. And, it’s on a World-Boss-Style timer, so it’s easy to LFG for.

Huh. Ok. I didn’t notice it, so either I’m living in durr central or it’s tucked away somewhere.

What’s the reward though? Is it much of an incentive? Cause what I’m thinking of would be more of a 24-hour kind of thing. Where people are incentivized to do that kind of content for as much as they have time to do on X day. That way, instead of the “daily rush” phenomenon where the majority of people get it out of the way early in the day and have no motivation to do it again, there’s an extended period in which people have reason to do it continuously, creating a more ongoing flow of players doing the content throughout the day.

BlazingPyro.3697:

Labjax.2465:

I never felt like Dragon’s Stand was designed with a lot of foresight in mind. Every map needs to be imagined with the scenario that it will one day be dead, with virtually no one doing it. The reason is just the sheer number of maps and the churning out of new maps, which automatically tend to take the majority of map population due to being new.

One side I would like to point out about this, Dragon’s Stand is the ONLY way to get Crystalline Ore, which is needed for both the 2nd Generation Legendary Weapons (Gift of Maguuma Mastery) as well as for Legendary Armor (Crystalline Heart) so I find it hard that the map will just die out and be dead.

Maybe so. I’ve been away a while, so I’m not familiar with all of the recent stuff. I played a lot in and after HoT, but then pretty much quit sometime in 2016 (I think?). Or maybe it was 2015 that I quit. These past few years have been something of a blur.

Labjax.2465:

BlazingPyro.3697:

Labjax.2465:

I never felt like Dragon’s Stand was designed with a lot of foresight in mind. Every map needs to be imagined with the scenario that it will one day be dead, with virtually no one doing it. The reason is just the sheer number of maps and the churning out of new maps, which automatically tend to take the majority of map population due to being new.

One side I would like to point out about this, Dragon’s Stand is the ONLY way to get Crystalline Ore, which is needed for both the 2nd Generation Legendary Weapons (Gift of Maguuma Mastery) as well as for Legendary Armor (Crystalline Heart) so I find it hard that the map will just die out and be dead.

Maybe so. I’ve been away a while, so I’m not familiar with all of the recent stuff. I played a lot in and after HoT, but then pretty much quit sometime in 2016 (I think?). Or maybe it was 2015 that I quit. These past few years have been something of a blur.

I agree with you and the original poster. The map should be available 100% for all Waypoints. POI’s, Hero Challenges, and Masteries even when the Meta is not going on. Shut the gates “if” the event is started leave the others alone for mapping and achievements.

As for the “Crystalline” it is only available in DS atm, we don’t know what the expansion will include. And if they did open DS to mapping they could just as easily add “Crystalline” to other maps.

Remember when you had to map WvW for map completion? They realized afterwards that a lot of players didn’t like WvW and removed it from the requirement.

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

I agree with you and the original poster. The map should be available 100% for all Waypoints. POI’s, Hero Challenges, and Masteries even when the Meta is not going on. Shut the gates “if” the event is started leave the others alone for mapping and achievements.

The meta starts immediately with the reset of the map.

Feanor.2358:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

I agree with you and the original poster. The map should be available 100% for all Waypoints. POI’s, Hero Challenges, and Masteries even when the Meta is not going on. Shut the gates “if” the event is started leave the others alone for mapping and achievements.

The meta starts immediately with the reset of the map.

I’m aware of how it currently works, but it could easily be started by clicking the “new NPC added” to start the map event…. Sorry I left that out I was giving a general idea as opposed to a formal Project layout….

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

I’m aware of how it currently works, but it could easily be started by clicking the “new NPC added” to start the map event….

So effectively you want to postpone the map reset, giving the players the control over the exact moment it happens. Now first, I find it very likely this option to have pretty much the same result in regards to your issue. Surely someone will click it, pretty much as the map starts. You can’t rely on everyone in the map to act according to your wishes.

Second, players get to see the reset. It breaks the immersion. It can be seriously annoying. Imagine you’re communing with a HP in one of the towers when suddenly the boss spawns right on you. Or a whole throng of mobs appear out of thin air.

Finally, it’s really a non-issue. Just play the meta event. It’s fun. There’s no need to brainstorm “solutions” which only work in very specific scenarios and introduce a lot more problems than they solve.

P.S. And seriously, this is the domain of an elder dragon. The most dangerous place in the whole expansion. You really ask to be able to walk around safely around it? Where’s the immersion in that?

Feanor.2358:

P.S. And seriously, this is the domain of an elder dragon. The most dangerous place in the whole expansion. You really ask to be able to walk around safely around it? Where’s the immersion in that?

Where’s the immersion in killing Mordremoth (spoilers!) and then having his dead face still somehow murder everyone on the map 20 minutes later? While all of the one-man-armies just sit there, waving their arms and dancing, praying for almighty Mordy to blow his divine death-sneeze on them, so they can map travel to the One Sacred Map?

Part of the problem is that Dragon Stand was thematically supposed to come right after the Tangled Depths meta. Epic the first time you encounter it, but as a game feature, it’s become hugely flawed over time.

Players ought to have some control over DS to avoid sitting in dead maps. The reset timer should begin when all the starting camps are organized (5/5 players waiting). This makes it possible to get a meta done in off hours, and there’s less incentive to cling to the One Sacred Map.

Feanor.2358:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

I’m aware of how it currently works, but it could easily be started by clicking the “new NPC added” to start the map event….

So effectively you want to postpone the map reset, giving the players the control over the exact moment it happens. Now first, I find it very likely this option to have pretty much the same result in regards to your issue. Surely someone will click it, pretty much as the map starts. You can’t rely on everyone in the map to act according to your wishes.

Second, players get to see the reset. It breaks the immersion. It can be seriously annoying. Imagine you’re communing with a HP in one of the towers when suddenly the boss spawns right on you. Or a whole throng of mobs appear out of thin air.

Finally, it’s really a non-issue. Just play the meta event. It’s fun. There’s no need to brainstorm “solutions” which only work in very specific scenarios and introduce a lot more problems than they solve.

P.S. And seriously, this is the domain of an elder dragon. The most dangerous place in the whole expansion. You really ask to be able to walk around safely around it? Where’s the immersion in that?

Ok so you are going with the “its always been like that so it doesn’t need to change group”?

Look I’m not saying that is how it should be, all I did was agree with the OP that it would be nice to be able to map the entire map without the Meta going on.

This map will get less populated as other areas open and the new expansion opens. Maybe that’s when they re-visit how the area is handled.

And as far as the Elder Dragon I have completed DS more times than I can count so I have knowledge that he is dead.

Maybe a better way is to put one hour between open and close of the map to allow time for mapping. All gates open all areas can be visited that would satisfy both sides on this subject.

At least I think it might….. Have a good day Feanor!!

They didn’t remove wvw map completion from the requirement for Been there done that because people didn’t like wvw. They removed it because the GOB is required for a legendary just like the GOE. Requiring 1 game mode for 2 parts of a legendary was viewed as unfair…But when they removed WvW from from GOE requirement wvw suffered, and when they added GOB reward track alot of PVERs were unhappy and wvw is still suffering.

As pointed out, map completion in DS does grant a piece necessary for the new legendaries. Map completion is understandably important to alot of people even if they aren’t working on a legendary, however, the meta is important to alot of people as well. The compromise is coming together even if forced.

Traveling around dragons stand when its NOT the meta is actually kinda entertaining. Just wish there were more pods available all the time though. If I changed dragons stand after the next expansion launches it would be lowering the map difficulty to require less players to complete it and add more pods to the map outside of meta progress so its still possible to get crystalline even if solo.

Rauderi.8706:

Where’s the immersion in killing Mordremoth (spoilers!) and then having his dead face still somehow murder everyone on the map 20 minutes later?

It’s not Mordremoth himself, it’s one of its avatars. And I usually leave the instance before the next reset, so immersion has always been there for me.

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

This map will get less populated as other areas open and the new expansion opens.

Ironic that you bring the topic, since you’re basically asking for one less reason to actually play the map. But no, it won’t. Because of Crystalline Ore.