Guild Wars 2

I haven’t personally played the beta, but I have seen video of people playing it, and it looks like a BLAST!

There are cries of OP OP! This doesn’t mean that Revenant needs to be nerfed though, just bring other classes up to it’s level!

If you guys do end up nerfing the Revenant a little bit, please take special care in it, because unlike other professions, the Revenant doesn’t have other skills to put in place on a legend if the skill becomes useless. It will just have to sit there, not being used.

I personally think they need to make each skill a little bit overpowered on the legends, just to keep all of them useful BECAUSE of the lack of skill choices. I know you could slap on a legend that is better, but the legends are going to have designated roles, such as Mallyx for condi dmg.

I can already see myself spamming Banish Enchantment on Elementalists who think it’s great to have more boons than they deserve. :P

Zarania.6235:

idc if i have to backstab a revenant twice or 4 times like a necro, i will do it. so bring it on anet!!!

0. You get 2 shooted before you even manage to get close

Zarania.6235:

idc if i have to backstab a revenant twice or 4 times like a necro, i will do it. so bring it on anet!!!

With what we had to play with in the demo, a good celestial something that forces two kinds of pressure OR something with burst and CC would do the trick. You can pretty much perma cripple or immobilize them when they are in jalis, and if they switch to mal, you start chain CC’ing them.

But we are getting more legends and trait lines ( and a specialization for everyone else) So we don’t really know what’s going to happen.
Greatsword necros may end up being the new celestial king and start actually being meta.
Rifle thieves may become 1-shot kill shot 2.0
We honestly won’t know where the Revenant stands until we see what everyone else is getting..

Honestly, It going to be one of those type of pro/class where after release, people are gonna claim how op Reveant is, but in reality its op because no one know how to take one down efficiently.

I mean yeah they are good, but I feel that they are good simply because there is too little knowledge known about them so far, so people are freaking out when they get into combat with one.

The lack of skills has me worried because if they nerf on ability into the ground to where it is unusable, it has to sit there, be useless, take up space, and you have no choice but to just never use it.

Jordo.5913:

I mean yeah they are good, but I feel that they are good simply because there is too little knowledge known about them so far, so people are freaking out when they get into combat with one.

The lack of skills has me worried because if they nerf on ability into the ground to where it is unusable, it has to sit there, be useless, take up space, and you have no choice but to just never use it.

I was in the Beta test. I freak out because I know every single classes, and had tried them all in pvp and pve. I can tell how some skills may potentially break pvp or pve because I know every single tricks any class can offer. (Though I’m not pro on all classes, but I do have the knowledge of how they work.)

For PVE, I think Revenant can completely replace Guardian with just the current utilities avaible (even though it’s just 25% completion of a class). It has condition cleanse, it has permanent GROUP stability, it has high up-time group invulnerability (to direct damage only), and it has mobile projectile block for the whole team with 50% up time.

PVP is abit more complicated, but all Mallyx skills are basically way too strong in PVP, especially the 0 CD booms removal + 5 stack confusion, and group aoe torment + CC + teleportation. Elite skill can also be abused when combine with Elite triggering runes and traits, so they can spam AOE condition indefinitely.

Thing about revenant is that;

-You go Jalis to becoming tanky to cc and somewhat direct damage – Guardian style. Cons are that outside of healing on 30cd you have 0 condi removal, rite takes too long to pull off so you want to make sure noone cc you during that time – either you waste dodge or use reinforcement (65 energy total) for stability. Lacking mobility. I classify him as power+cc tank, group support legend

-You go Mallyx to control conditions, eating boons of target like no tomorrow and copy existing conditions into enemy – somewhat necro style. Howered sooner or later you run out of energy and conditions will eat you alive, same story when someone has good potential to strip boons. In mallyx you want conditions on yourself but not for too long. Its looks easy but thats really dangerous playstyle but rewarding when played properly. You have right there 0 abilities to negate cc and direct damage. I know you can use UA to have a bit of breathing room in case of melee bur range will nuke you down still. It can be used also as gap closer/opene howered it cost a bit of energy and selfcripple hurts as well once resistance run out. I would consider him as no mobility legend just like Jalis. I classify him as condition tank/boon stripper due to resistance boon.

-Another one is Shiro which is open up for speculations olny based on gw1 skills. From my translation he might have a bit of mobility in a slighty different form (shadowstep we seen in the vid) but generally hes burst oriented. Skill can be seens at gw1 page which leads to; moderate mobility if skill land (seen in trailer), life steal, 2x damage and condition transfer and from datamined elite – aoe insta stun. Outside of riposting shadows which puts you back to original localization i doubt we will see anything else mobility related. Possibly lacking stunbreak just like Mallyx.

_
Whatever you dont pick you lack in other area. You cant mix utilities like on existing professions so you have to make choice what role(s) you want to pick up based on legends+weapons and stick to them. Traits might help a bit like protection on cc which most likely will end up as must have as i have feeling he wont have any stunbreak/stability outside of Jalis and legend swap. Hes restricted like no other class right now in gw. Leaked weapon skills doesnt help him either – they have 0 mobility forcing us to pick something with high mobility if we want to run melee set in pvp.

And at this point for example we can go direct dmg tank/burst but we will lack mobility or we can go as direct damage tank/mobility but we lack burst or go burst/mobility but we will end up lacking on defensive side. The whole class is based on tradeoff so even if his abilities looks strong in one aspect he will be extremy weak in another one. Thats ofc olny my speculations which leads to hardcounter/hardcountered based on build

Revenant seems so slow, slower than a guardian.

until we see what the full Revenant can do, Mobility now is his biggest weakness but hey conquest pvp has little use for mobility.

Juba.8406:

Revenant seems so slow, slower than a guardian.

until we see what the full Revenant can do, Mobility now is his biggest weakness but hey conquest pvp has little use for mobility.

I agree. Hes the second slower class after necro in current state. They said in interview that their mobility match out of combat thief mobility and i hope they wont fail to deliver that. If they do howered, i can imagine every revenant and their mom running with hammer in pvp while melee sets being viable in pve olny.

We don’t even know the full capabilities of the class yet or how it will compare to other classes once the xpac hits.

These posts are as useful as umbrella during meteor rain.

You “having a blast” with a class that is supposedly (notice, I am not claiming it is or isn´t) overpowered does not matter at all in the decision of changing it. Balancing does.

Nephziel.6053:

We don’t even know the full capabilities of the class yet or how it will compare to other classes once the xpac hits.

These posts are as useful as umbrella during meteor rain.

I’m not asking for nerf, I’m asking to keep it the way it is

No. If a class is overpowered you nerf it, not buff everyone else. It’s too much work and it brings in a little nasty thing called power creep.

Algreg.3629:

You “having a blast” with a class that is supposedly (notice, I am not claiming it is or isn´t) overpowered does not matter at all in the decision of changing it. Balancing does.

I didn’t have a blast, I watched some vids and thought it looked like a blast.

I really couldn’t tell you if the class was OP or not, until I get it into my own hands and start theorycrafting, but based on what I see, I’m just asking to keep the class the way it is and let it settle down and people figure out the “OP” class before you start knee-jerk nerfing it.

People have no idea how ‘betas’ work apparently.

They’re not going to ‘buff’ or ‘nerf’ revenent, but they still need to tune the class so its ready for release.

That’s one of the main reasons to get a bunch of people to play it is so they get more comprehensive balance information.

And hereby I gave my Beta experience like I should. Yet many people who’re not even on the Beta kept on criticizing by theory-crafting in their mind by watching some video, when I was actually testing out how each of the skills work and picturing how it’d be applied in pvp and pve.

I’ll be waiting for the time when the trait is actually complete and when mist released. If the skills stay as it is now, we’ll see.

Toxsa.2701:

And hereby I gave my Beta experience like I should. Yet many people who’re not even on the Beta kept on criticizing by theory-crafting in their mind by watching some video, when I was actually testing out how each of the skills work and picturing how it’d be applied in pvp and pve.

I’ll be waiting for the time when the trait is actually complete and when mist released. If the skills stay as it is now, we’ll see.

You weren’t there to test the class, you were there to stress test the servers.

The class isn’t finished, Anet aren’t going to take anything anyone says about the class into consideration yet until they themselves are comfortable with where it’s basemark is set, then they will start to listen to the community in regards to balance for the revenant.

YuiRS.8129:

No. If a class is overpowered you nerf it, not buff everyone else. It’s too much work and it brings in a little nasty thing called power creep.

I just hope they don’t over nerf things because people like to throw “different” into the same handbag as “OP”. This undeniably happens. In gw2 it leads to over nerfing, in some games (like WoW) it leads to homogenization. Both are bad outcomes from inexperienced people making snap calls that the sky is falling.

A revenant can stack 25 stacks of confusion in 2.5 seconds while also stripping away 10 boons, please tell me how is this not OP.

I want to main a revenant but it’s pretty clear that the balance team never tested it in PvP. It has really cool ideas, but it’s also extremely Op right now.

Devs said themself that they are happy with Jalis and Mallyx in current state to the point where they was ready to show them which mean all current abilities we have seen passed their balance testing. At this point i doubt they change anything in them. And i still dont see anything op in revenant as it stands now – if anything i see him to be quite hard to play actually. Its really funny to call for a nerf based on dumbed down pve. You wasnt there to test revenant, leave it to people that know what they doing unlike you guys that screams for a nerf. Ty

witcher.3197:

A revenant can stack 25 stacks of confusion in 2.5 seconds while also stripping away 10 boons, please tell me how is this not OP.

I want to main a revenant but it’s pretty clear that the balance team never tested it in PvP. It has really cool ideas, but it’s also extremely Op right now.

Source please.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Source please.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

rotten.9753:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Source please.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

That doesn’t take into consideration dodging, aftercasts, and conditional requirements. “Can”=/=plausible.

Thief “can” 1 shot people from stealth.

rotten.9753:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Source please.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

And what youre trying to say by that link? By source im asking for a vid. But i understand that some ppl here doesnt even have binded a dodge buttom so you take everything on a chest like a “pro”. And nope, fight starts at 50% energy, you also need 10sec for that 50 energy to regenerate doing nothing but autoatk to spam that move. If you ask me i would consider such revenant a freekill. Same as heartseeker thieves spamming 2 for the win. But its okay guys feel free to prove how bad you are at this game so i can have a good laugh

Scoobaniec.9561:

rotten.9753:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Source please.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

And what youre trying to say by that link? By source im asking for a vid. But i understand that some ppl here doesnt even have binded a dodge buttom so you take everything on a chest like a “pro”. And nope, fight starts at 50% energy, you also need 10sec for that 50 energy to regenerate doing nothing but autoatk to spam that move. If you ask me i would consider such revenant a freekill. Same as heartseeker thieves spamming 2 for the win. But its okay guys feel free to prove how bad you are at this game so i can have a good laugh

25 stacks won’t be easy to do. But 10-15 is rather easy as it’s unblockable and has 600 range. You say the revenant would only be able to spam autoattack? Well, the pace at which mace autoattack applies torment and poison is rather insane so it’s not like the revenant is punished for building up his energy. You can also use all your weapon skills as those don’t seem to have energy costs, or very low (5 or so).

As you need less than 3 seconds for 25 stacks, if there is anyone around who can put an immob or stun at the target it’s not a hard thing to do.

witcher.3197:

Scoobaniec.9561:

rotten.9753:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Source please.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

And what youre trying to say by that link? By source im asking for a vid. But i understand that some ppl here doesnt even have binded a dodge buttom so you take everything on a chest like a “pro”. And nope, fight starts at 50% energy, you also need 10sec for that 50 energy to regenerate doing nothing but autoatk to spam that move. If you ask me i would consider such revenant a freekill. Same as heartseeker thieves spamming 2 for the win. But its okay guys feel free to prove how bad you are at this game so i can have a good laugh

25 stacks won’t be easy to do. But 10-15 is rather easy as it’s unblockable and has 600 range. You say the revenant would only be able to spam autoattack? Well, the pace at which mace autoattack applies torment and poison is rather insane so it’s not like the revenant is punished for building up his energy. You can also use all your weapon skills as those don’t seem to have energy costs, or very low (5 or so).

As you need less than 3 seconds for 25 stacks, if there is anyone around who can put an immob or stun at the target it’s not a hard thing to do.

Still doesn’t consider aftercasts (which are much longer than people think. Napkin math using casting times is not a very safe method of calculation). Or that it’s only 2 confusion unless you have 3 conditions on you the whole time. I think it’s best to try it out before getting overly hyped on what ifs, that’s all I’m saying.

But in case you weren’t worried enough, they’re removing the cap on confusion.

ronpierce.2760:

But in case you weren’t worried enough, they’re removing the cap on confusion.

25 was the number he picked probably due to energy cost (20/100).

rotten.9753:

ronpierce.2760:

But in case you weren’t worried enough, they’re removing the cap on confusion.

25 was the number he picked probably due to energy cost (20/100).

Ah, if thats the case, in reality they should be able to cast 6 in a row given energy regeneration rates and “real” cast times.

ronpierce.2760:

witcher.3197:

Scoobaniec.9561:

rotten.9753:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Source please.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

And what youre trying to say by that link? By source im asking for a vid. But i understand that some ppl here doesnt even have binded a dodge buttom so you take everything on a chest like a “pro”. And nope, fight starts at 50% energy, you also need 10sec for that 50 energy to regenerate doing nothing but autoatk to spam that move. If you ask me i would consider such revenant a freekill. Same as heartseeker thieves spamming 2 for the win. But its okay guys feel free to prove how bad you are at this game so i can have a good laugh

25 stacks won’t be easy to do. But 10-15 is rather easy as it’s unblockable and has 600 range. You say the revenant would only be able to spam autoattack? Well, the pace at which mace autoattack applies torment and poison is rather insane so it’s not like the revenant is punished for building up his energy. You can also use all your weapon skills as those don’t seem to have energy costs, or very low (5 or so).

As you need less than 3 seconds for 25 stacks, if there is anyone around who can put an immob or stun at the target it’s not a hard thing to do.

Still doesn’t consider aftercasts (which are much longer than people think. Napkin math using casting times is not a very safe method of calculation). Or that it’s only 2 confusion unless you have 3 conditions on you the whole time. I think it’s best to try it out before getting overly hyped on what ifs, that’s all I’m saying.

But in case you weren’t worried enough, they’re removing the cap on confusion.

Btw Phantaram thinks it’s OP as well. From what I’ve seen, there is basically no aftercast, or really minimal, and he builds up 15-20 stacks once or twice when he’s going for it (he wasn’t always trying). http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/v/3941967 – here it is, I’m too lazy to go through 2.5 hours atm, sorry.

witcher.3197:

ronpierce.2760:

witcher.3197:

Scoobaniec.9561:

rotten.9753:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Source please.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

And what youre trying to say by that link? By source im asking for a vid. But i understand that some ppl here doesnt even have binded a dodge buttom so you take everything on a chest like a “pro”. And nope, fight starts at 50% energy, you also need 10sec for that 50 energy to regenerate doing nothing but autoatk to spam that move. If you ask me i would consider such revenant a freekill. Same as heartseeker thieves spamming 2 for the win. But its okay guys feel free to prove how bad you are at this game so i can have a good laugh

25 stacks won’t be easy to do. But 10-15 is rather easy as it’s unblockable and has 600 range. You say the revenant would only be able to spam autoattack? Well, the pace at which mace autoattack applies torment and poison is rather insane so it’s not like the revenant is punished for building up his energy. You can also use all your weapon skills as those don’t seem to have energy costs, or very low (5 or so).

As you need less than 3 seconds for 25 stacks, if there is anyone around who can put an immob or stun at the target it’s not a hard thing to do.

Still doesn’t consider aftercasts (which are much longer than people think. Napkin math using casting times is not a very safe method of calculation). Or that it’s only 2 confusion unless you have 3 conditions on you the whole time. I think it’s best to try it out before getting overly hyped on what ifs, that’s all I’m saying.

But in case you weren’t worried enough, they’re removing the cap on confusion.

Btw Phantaram thinks it’s OP as well. From what I’ve seen, there is basically no aftercast, or really minimal. http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/v/3941967 – here it is, I’m too lazy to go through 2.5 hours atm, sorry.

Phantaram’s just a guy. I’ve been top 50, been on good teams, played with abjured (and against), we’re all just people lol, he’s not a gaming god. I’ve seen people from abjured complain about the silliest things (including things as minor as decoy on Mesmer, just to put it in perspective, all the while defending slickshoes to the grave).

That said, I’m not arguing if its OP, it might be a little too strong, its worth watching. But the applications people are assuming are highly flawed. Things to consider:

Pre/after casts.
Conditional Requirements.
The “whole package” of a build (which we can’t really say we’ve seen yet)
**Missed attacks take away energy from ALL abilities the Revenant can be using (similarly to initiative, though Initiative is only a weapon skills).

So, in reality, they need a bit of weight behind them as part of their resource design. Not to mention the reality that they actually start at 50% energy.

Could it be great? Possibly. Still no sense in going off the deepend and dooming things before they get a chance to be properly tested. Remember, these things have been tested internally as well. If its broke, Karl will fix it!

ronpierce.2760:

witcher.3197:

ronpierce.2760:

witcher.3197:

Scoobaniec.9561:

rotten.9753:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Source please.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

And what youre trying to say by that link? By source im asking for a vid. But i understand that some ppl here doesnt even have binded a dodge buttom so you take everything on a chest like a “pro”. And nope, fight starts at 50% energy, you also need 10sec for that 50 energy to regenerate doing nothing but autoatk to spam that move. If you ask me i would consider such revenant a freekill. Same as heartseeker thieves spamming 2 for the win. But its okay guys feel free to prove how bad you are at this game so i can have a good laugh

25 stacks won’t be easy to do. But 10-15 is rather easy as it’s unblockable and has 600 range. You say the revenant would only be able to spam autoattack? Well, the pace at which mace autoattack applies torment and poison is rather insane so it’s not like the revenant is punished for building up his energy. You can also use all your weapon skills as those don’t seem to have energy costs, or very low (5 or so).

As you need less than 3 seconds for 25 stacks, if there is anyone around who can put an immob or stun at the target it’s not a hard thing to do.

Still doesn’t consider aftercasts (which are much longer than people think. Napkin math using casting times is not a very safe method of calculation). Or that it’s only 2 confusion unless you have 3 conditions on you the whole time. I think it’s best to try it out before getting overly hyped on what ifs, that’s all I’m saying.

But in case you weren’t worried enough, they’re removing the cap on confusion.

Btw Phantaram thinks it’s OP as well. From what I’ve seen, there is basically no aftercast, or really minimal. http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/v/3941967 – here it is, I’m too lazy to go through 2.5 hours atm, sorry.

Phantaram’s just a guy. I’ve been top 50, been on good teams, played with abjured (and against), we’re all just people lol, he’s not a gaming god. I’ve seen people from abjured complain about the silliest things (including things as minor as decoy on Mesmer, just to put it in perspective, all the while defending slickshoes to the grave).

That said, I’m not arguing if its OP, it might be a little too strong, its worth watching. But the applications people are assuming are highly flawed. Things to consider:

Pre/after casts.
Conditional Requirements.
The “whole package” of a build (which we can’t really say we’ve seen yet)
**Missed attacks take away energy from ALL abilities the Revenant can be using (similarly to initiative, though Initiative is only a weapon skills).

So, in reality, they need a bit of weight behind them as part of their resource design. Not to mention the reality that they actually start at 50% energy.

Could it be great? Possibly. Still no sense in going off the deepend and dooming things before they get a chance to be properly tested. Remember, these things have been tested internally as well. If its broke, Karl will fix it!

I personally don’t see how mallyx skills are hard to land lol.

9th skill is a big aoe that are able to cover the whole node in PVP, and pulses for 5 seconds with 0 cd, while teleporting/cc people and causing torments.

I also don’t see how 8th skill is hard to land because you just need a target to land it. However, differ from corrupt boom, it has 0 CD, so you can spam it until you actually remove the booms. You also can stack up to 25 stacks of confusion with this easily, and it’ll only be worse when +condition duration runes/ traits is included.

Elite skill can spam AOE burning with 10 sec CD and elite itself has no energy cost and CD. It’s like engineer’s kit that can be spammed indefinitely, abusing certain traits and runes.

Oh, and people who’re not in beta are arguing about the energy issue right? I personally find the current regeneration rate is even faster than thief’s initiative. The costs on weapon skills are minimal, and only the utility skills you need to manage the energy with. Also the switching between legends CD is quite minimal (10 sec default) that I find energy management is not really a huge problem.

Toxsa.2701:

Oh, and people who’re not in beta are arguing about the energy issue right? I personally find the current regeneration rate is even faster than thief’s initiative. The costs on weapon skills are minimal, and only the utility skills you need to manage the energy with. Also the switching between legends CD is quite minimal (10 sec default) that I find energy management is not really a huge problem.

Not to mention that Banish Enchantment has a minimal animation and is very hard to dodge for it. Its tell is subtle, the skill is fast, and you might even be hit with it and waste your dodge while the revenant just stands there and keeps spamming the same unblockable aoe confusion / boonstrip combo indefinitely. Not like you can fight it.

And that’s without condi duration food etc as it’s possible in wvw.

Your class relies on boons? Tough luck. You had 15 stacks of might? No you don’t. You’re an engineer and confusion procs three times as much on you? Well, you better reroll.

Imagine a perplexity Revenant. 20 base confusion and the rest he makes up in constant interrupts. Can’t snare him either because he’s gonna be busy having resistance up the butt.

Toxsa.2701:

And hereby I gave my Beta experience like I should. Yet many people who’re not even on the Beta kept on criticizing by theory-crafting in their mind by watching some video, when I was actually testing out how each of the skills work and picturing how it’d be applied in pvp and pve.

I’ll be waiting for the time when the trait is actually complete and when mist released. If the skills stay as it is now, we’ll see.

People have this weird instinctive anti-nerf reaction, I’m not quite sure why… it happens in every game just about in every stiation.

@Others even in the stress-test, player feedback is valuable on the other gameplay elements. It’s not just a stress test, it’s also a way to get analytics and player response on all the things that players could do.

Revenant feedback (and it’s clearly not tuned yet) is just like the feedback about people being confused by the mushroom mastery being ‘broken’.

Jordo.5913:

I haven’t personally played the beta, but I have seen video of people playing it, and it looks like a BLAST!

There are cries of OP OP! This doesn’t mean that Revenant needs to be nerfed though, just bring other classes up to it’s level!

If you guys do end up nerfing the Revenant a little bit, please take special care in it, because unlike other professions, the Revenant doesn’t have other skills to put in place on a legend if the skill becomes useless. It will just have to sit there, not being used.

I personally think they need to make each skill a little bit overpowered on the legends, just to keep all of them useful BECAUSE of the lack of skill choices. I know you could slap on a legend that is better, but the legends are going to have designated roles, such as Mallyx for condi dmg.

There are some aspects that are clearly too overpowered, and bringing other classes ‘up’ to them would mean the content would be too easy. I would totally expect some nerfing – but it’s down to what they should have been in the first place. They seem to have deliberately overpowered them? (my personal speculation), and then will dial them back to something more realistic for launch. Tuning if you like.

Windsagio.1340:

Toxsa.2701:

And hereby I gave my Beta experience like I should. Yet many people who’re not even on the Beta kept on criticizing by theory-crafting in their mind by watching some video, when I was actually testing out how each of the skills work and picturing how it’d be applied in pvp and pve.

I’ll be waiting for the time when the trait is actually complete and when mist released. If the skills stay as it is now, we’ll see.

People have this weird instinctive anti-nerf reaction, I’m not quite sure why… it happens in every game just about in every stiation.

@Others even in the stress-test, player feedback is valuable on the other gameplay elements. It’s not just a stress test, it’s also a way to get analytics and player response on all the things that players could do.

Revenant feedback (and it’s clearly not tuned yet) is just like the feedback about people being confused by the mushroom mastery being ‘broken’.

Its not so much as an anti-nerf reaction so much as a “cool your jets” reaction. We’ve seen how overhyping how powerful something is leads to it being WAY overnerfed. Just look at Necromancer, arguably one of the strongest classes in Beta became the weakest class in PVE and most of PVP for years, and isn’t even all that interesting anymore after things like Shade and so on got removed. Elementalists in PVP were amazing, then they went a year or more of being basically extinct because they overnerfed them.

That’s the caution. People make snap decisions that things are OP before they can be adequately tested will only make the problem worse. Saying keep an eye on something is one thing. Going on nerf rants about a class with 3 trees, 2 legends and 2 weapons sets so far and is basically still in alpha… Maybe take a step back and breathe?

ronpierce.2760:

Windsagio.1340:

Toxsa.2701:

And hereby I gave my Beta experience like I should. Yet many people who’re not even on the Beta kept on criticizing by theory-crafting in their mind by watching some video, when I was actually testing out how each of the skills work and picturing how it’d be applied in pvp and pve.

I’ll be waiting for the time when the trait is actually complete and when mist released. If the skills stay as it is now, we’ll see.

People have this weird instinctive anti-nerf reaction, I’m not quite sure why… it happens in every game just about in every stiation.

@Others even in the stress-test, player feedback is valuable on the other gameplay elements. It’s not just a stress test, it’s also a way to get analytics and player response on all the things that players could do.

Revenant feedback (and it’s clearly not tuned yet) is just like the feedback about people being confused by the mushroom mastery being ‘broken’.

Its not so much as an anti-nerf reaction so much as a “cool your jets” reaction. We’ve seen how overhyping how powerful something is leads to it being WAY overnerfed. Just look at Necromancer, arguably one of the strongest classes in Beta became the weakest class in PVE and most of PVP for years, and isn’t even all that interesting anymore after things like Shade and so on got removed. Elementalists in PVP were amazing, then they went a year or more of being basically extinct because they overnerfed them.

That’s the caution. People make snap decisions that things are OP before they can be adequately tested will only make the problem worse. Saying keep an eye on something is one thing. Going on nerf rants about a class with 3 trees, 2 legends and 2 weapons sets so far and is basically still in alpha… Maybe take a step back and breathe?

this so much

Remember players define OP as “ah , man, one of those beat me. Twice!”

ArenaNet defines OP as “out of 250,000 encounters, profession N is over performing by 12%”…

The people who make the decisions to actually change a profession live in an entirely different frame of reference than the people posting here.

Nike.2631:

Remember players define OP as “ah , man, one of those beat me. Twice!”

ArenaNet defines OP as “out of 250,000 encounters, profession N is over performing by 12%”…

The people who make the decisions to actually change a profession live in an entirely different frame of reference than the people posting here.

You overestimate Anet. Anet had been doing alot of nerf that’s completely uncalled for. It ended up breaking some classes, that they later on (after 1 freaking year?) revert back, or change something else to compensate.

Anyway, some of Revenant’s skills just completely outperform every single classes, it’s doesn’t take an expert to figure out that Mallyx 8 and 9 is broken.

Yeah the specializations will be playing a big role in this. Ive said it several times in other posts, without really knowing what they will do, we can only compare the reverant to what we now have. The reverant actually makes me think were going to see a lot of new game play in guild wars 2 with all classes because its so obviously overboard.

It definitely is OP to our current game play, but I dont think were going to be staying in the current game play.

Toxsa.2701:

Nike.2631:

Remember players define OP as “ah , man, one of those beat me. Twice!”

ArenaNet defines OP as “out of 250,000 encounters, profession N is over performing by 12%”…

The people who make the decisions to actually change a profession live in an entirely different frame of reference than the people posting here.

You overestimate Anet. Anet had been doing alot of nerf that’s completely uncalled for. It ended up breaking some classes, that they later on (after 1 freaking year?) revert back, or change something else to compensate.

Anyway, some of Revenant’s skills just completely outperform every single classes, it’s doesn’t take an expert to figure out that Mallyx 8 and 9 is broken.

Ask yourself why they nerfed a lot of things. Thats right, by people like you that keep QQ instead of adapting. You dont even had a chance to actually play it in pvp against competent people yet you want to see it nerfed already so you can enjoy your freekills at launch. Many warrior builds was destroyed due to ppl complaining that they cant freekill warrior anymore they used to forcing us to a bot roles – banner for pve, shouts for pvp. Anything outside that is not viable thx to qq. Yet the total cheese builds still running around and everyone seems to be fine with that cause they doesnt work in conquest gamemode – nice logic there guys, keep it up.

And to this day i see people complaining about killshot/eviscarate asking for nerfs lol..

We have only seen revenants with celestial armor and dolyak runes… using only 2 non definative trait lines and an unfinished one.

We do not have ANY clue whatsoever of the revenants capabilities. We have seen only a fraction, and when doing beta it felt way weaker then ele or ranger… both also with celestial and dolyak runes. mostly due to lack of a complete build…

ronpierce.2760:

witcher.3197:

ronpierce.2760:

witcher.3197:

Scoobaniec.9561:

rotten.9753:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Source please.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

And what youre trying to say by that link? By source im asking for a vid. But i understand that some ppl here doesnt even have binded a dodge buttom so you take everything on a chest like a “pro”. And nope, fight starts at 50% energy, you also need 10sec for that 50 energy to regenerate doing nothing but autoatk to spam that move. If you ask me i would consider such revenant a freekill. Same as heartseeker thieves spamming 2 for the win. But its okay guys feel free to prove how bad you are at this game so i can have a good laugh

25 stacks won’t be easy to do. But 10-15 is rather easy as it’s unblockable and has 600 range. You say the revenant would only be able to spam autoattack? Well, the pace at which mace autoattack applies torment and poison is rather insane so it’s not like the revenant is punished for building up his energy. You can also use all your weapon skills as those don’t seem to have energy costs, or very low (5 or so).

As you need less than 3 seconds for 25 stacks, if there is anyone around who can put an immob or stun at the target it’s not a hard thing to do.

Still doesn’t consider aftercasts (which are much longer than people think. Napkin math using casting times is not a very safe method of calculation). Or that it’s only 2 confusion unless you have 3 conditions on you the whole time. I think it’s best to try it out before getting overly hyped on what ifs, that’s all I’m saying.

But in case you weren’t worried enough, they’re removing the cap on confusion.

Btw Phantaram thinks it’s OP as well. From what I’ve seen, there is basically no aftercast, or really minimal. http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/v/3941967 – here it is, I’m too lazy to go through 2.5 hours atm, sorry.

Phantaram’s just a guy. I’ve been top 50, been on good teams, played with abjured (and against), we’re all just people lol, he’s not a gaming god. I’ve seen people from abjured complain about the silliest things (including things as minor as decoy on Mesmer, just to put it in perspective, all the while defending slickshoes to the grave).

That said, I’m not arguing if its OP, it might be a little too strong, its worth watching. But the applications people are assuming are highly flawed. Things to consider:

Pre/after casts.
Conditional Requirements.
The “whole package” of a build (which we can’t really say we’ve seen yet)
**Missed attacks take away energy from ALL abilities the Revenant can be using (similarly to initiative, though Initiative is only a weapon skills).

So, in reality, they need a bit of weight behind them as part of their resource design. Not to mention the reality that they actually start at 50% energy.

Could it be great? Possibly. Still no sense in going off the deepend and dooming things before they get a chance to be properly tested. Remember, these things have been tested internally as well. If its broke, Karl will fix it!

The reason why I brought up Phantaram is because unlike forum people, he’s not blinded by his love for certain specs. He predicted double cele DD will replace bunker guards and will be OP, even proposed nerfs despite the fact he plays that. He’s not the kind of guy who screams “omg pls nerf” at everything, he’s pretty chill in general.

So if he says something is broken then he’s usually right – not always, but 99% of times. We all know it takes years for Anet to properly nerf something that’s OP, so I’d rather see revenant adjusted a bit before it’s released.

I hope they don’t nerf/buff anything too much. A handfull of beta testers should only count for stability changes or game quest bugs and such but not class balance. I prefer them releasing them OP as kitten and then let the numbers speak for themselves, gathered from global players.

ronpierce.2760:

witcher.3197:

Scoobaniec.9561:

rotten.9753:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Source please.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

And what youre trying to say by that link? By source im asking for a vid. But i understand that some ppl here doesnt even have binded a dodge buttom so you take everything on a chest like a “pro”. And nope, fight starts at 50% energy, you also need 10sec for that 50 energy to regenerate doing nothing but autoatk to spam that move. If you ask me i would consider such revenant a freekill. Same as heartseeker thieves spamming 2 for the win. But its okay guys feel free to prove how bad you are at this game so i can have a good laugh

25 stacks won’t be easy to do. But 10-15 is rather easy as it’s unblockable and has 600 range. You say the revenant would only be able to spam autoattack? Well, the pace at which mace autoattack applies torment and poison is rather insane so it’s not like the revenant is punished for building up his energy. You can also use all your weapon skills as those don’t seem to have energy costs, or very low (5 or so).

As you need less than 3 seconds for 25 stacks, if there is anyone around who can put an immob or stun at the target it’s not a hard thing to do.

But in case you weren’t worried enough, they’re removing the cap on confusion.

Afaik that is PvE only, and possibly even only on Elite-mobs or stronger.

witcher.3197:

ronpierce.2760:

witcher.3197:

ronpierce.2760:

witcher.3197:

Scoobaniec.9561:

rotten.9753:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Source please.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

And what youre trying to say by that link? By source im asking for a vid. But i understand that some ppl here doesnt even have binded a dodge buttom so you take everything on a chest like a “pro”. And nope, fight starts at 50% energy, you also need 10sec for that 50 energy to regenerate doing nothing but autoatk to spam that move. If you ask me i would consider such revenant a freekill. Same as heartseeker thieves spamming 2 for the win. But its okay guys feel free to prove how bad you are at this game so i can have a good laugh

25 stacks won’t be easy to do. But 10-15 is rather easy as it’s unblockable and has 600 range. You say the revenant would only be able to spam autoattack? Well, the pace at which mace autoattack applies torment and poison is rather insane so it’s not like the revenant is punished for building up his energy. You can also use all your weapon skills as those don’t seem to have energy costs, or very low (5 or so).

As you need less than 3 seconds for 25 stacks, if there is anyone around who can put an immob or stun at the target it’s not a hard thing to do.

Still doesn’t consider aftercasts (which are much longer than people think. Napkin math using casting times is not a very safe method of calculation). Or that it’s only 2 confusion unless you have 3 conditions on you the whole time. I think it’s best to try it out before getting overly hyped on what ifs, that’s all I’m saying.

But in case you weren’t worried enough, they’re removing the cap on confusion.

Btw Phantaram thinks it’s OP as well. From what I’ve seen, there is basically no aftercast, or really minimal. http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/v/3941967 – here it is, I’m too lazy to go through 2.5 hours atm, sorry.

Phantaram’s just a guy. I’ve been top 50, been on good teams, played with abjured (and against), we’re all just people lol, he’s not a gaming god. I’ve seen people from abjured complain about the silliest things (including things as minor as decoy on Mesmer, just to put it in perspective, all the while defending slickshoes to the grave).

That said, I’m not arguing if its OP, it might be a little too strong, its worth watching. But the applications people are assuming are highly flawed. Things to consider:

Pre/after casts.
Conditional Requirements.
The “whole package” of a build (which we can’t really say we’ve seen yet)
**Missed attacks take away energy from ALL abilities the Revenant can be using (similarly to initiative, though Initiative is only a weapon skills).

So, in reality, they need a bit of weight behind them as part of their resource design. Not to mention the reality that they actually start at 50% energy.

Could it be great? Possibly. Still no sense in going off the deepend and dooming things before they get a chance to be properly tested. Remember, these things have been tested internally as well. If its broke, Karl will fix it!

The reason why I brought up Phantaram is because unlike forum people, he’s not blinded by his love for certain specs. He predicted double cele DD will replace bunker guards and will be OP, even proposed nerfs despite the fact he plays that. He’s not the kind of guy who screams “omg pls nerf” at everything, he’s pretty chill in general.

So if he says something is broken then he’s usually right – not always, but 99% of times. We all know it takes years for Anet to properly nerf something that’s OP, so I’d rather see revenant adjusted a bit before it’s released.

+1 Many people here are not even in Beta, and probably don’t even know how the skills work. It is very obvious some skills are way too strong. It really doesn’t take an export to figure that out, just do some comparison between all skills in the game. It’s like those people who has 0 idea what they’re talking about keep on defending something they’re completely clueless about. Seriously, if you’re not in the beta, stop debating things you don’t even know..

And stop giving the excuse of “this is just a fraction of the skills” Ofc Ik it’s just a fraction of skill. It’s like we’re hereby showing you off mesmer’s new specialization: just one new elite that grant quickness to himself with 100% up time! Yes they only show up one skill, just a tiny fraction of the specialization! But people already know it’s OP.
Mallyx skills are exactly like that.

From what I’ve seen, the Revenant seems really powerful, not like “new-thus-better” powerful, but genuinely powerful.

In WvW to stand a chance against Revenants, they need to be nerfed. Imagine, you are fighting against 2 Revenants… Perma-Jalis Elite, 0 damage. And don’t expect to kill them with conditions: they’ll get ripped easily. A roaming group of Revenants is virtually unkillable. They make appear that a fight with an upleveled character against 5 glass cannon perma stealth thieves is really easy.

Though they said the demo/stress test was made easier, I hope they will nerf the Revenant. Else, we’ll only see Revs running around the game and every other class would be useless.

Yes 100 % revs, and how long do you think the nerf hammer stays away then? hours or days?

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Yes 100 % revs, and how long do you think the nerf hammer stays away then? hours or days?

Months or years and I’m not even kidding. That’s the Anet pace.

Shiki.7148:

ronpierce.2760:

witcher.3197:

Scoobaniec.9561:

rotten.9753:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Source please.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

And what youre trying to say by that link? By source im asking for a vid. But i understand that some ppl here doesnt even have binded a dodge buttom so you take everything on a chest like a “pro”. And nope, fight starts at 50% energy, you also need 10sec for that 50 energy to regenerate doing nothing but autoatk to spam that move. If you ask me i would consider such revenant a freekill. Same as heartseeker thieves spamming 2 for the win. But its okay guys feel free to prove how bad you are at this game so i can have a good laugh

25 stacks won’t be easy to do. But 10-15 is rather easy as it’s unblockable and has 600 range. You say the revenant would only be able to spam autoattack? Well, the pace at which mace autoattack applies torment and poison is rather insane so it’s not like the revenant is punished for building up his energy. You can also use all your weapon skills as those don’t seem to have energy costs, or very low (5 or so).

As you need less than 3 seconds for 25 stacks, if there is anyone around who can put an immob or stun at the target it’s not a hard thing to do.

But in case you weren’t worried enough, they’re removing the cap on confusion.

Afaik that is PvE only, and possibly even only on Elite-mobs or stronger.

We don’t actually know anything about it. It’s iust speculation that it won’t go beyond large boss mobs, mostly out of wishful thinking. It may be contained, but I don’t think anything has been said to give anyone that idea.

ronpierce.2760:

Shiki.7148:

ronpierce.2760:

witcher.3197:

Scoobaniec.9561:

rotten.9753:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Source please.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

And what youre trying to say by that link? By source im asking for a vid. But i understand that some ppl here doesnt even have binded a dodge buttom so you take everything on a chest like a “pro”. And nope, fight starts at 50% energy, you also need 10sec for that 50 energy to regenerate doing nothing but autoatk to spam that move. If you ask me i would consider such revenant a freekill. Same as heartseeker thieves spamming 2 for the win. But its okay guys feel free to prove how bad you are at this game so i can have a good laugh

25 stacks won’t be easy to do. But 10-15 is rather easy as it’s unblockable and has 600 range. You say the revenant would only be able to spam autoattack? Well, the pace at which mace autoattack applies torment and poison is rather insane so it’s not like the revenant is punished for building up his energy. You can also use all your weapon skills as those don’t seem to have energy costs, or very low (5 or so).

As you need less than 3 seconds for 25 stacks, if there is anyone around who can put an immob or stun at the target it’s not a hard thing to do.

But in case you weren’t worried enough, they’re removing the cap on confusion.

Afaik that is PvE only, and possibly even only on Elite-mobs or stronger.

We don’t actually know anything about it. It’s iust speculation that it won’t go beyond large boss mobs, mostly out of wishful thinking. It may be contained, but I don’t think anything has been said to give anyone that idea.

Yes, hence the “possibly”. But I’m pretty sure an A-net dev said something about it definitly only affecting PvE (or not affecting WvW), and it is all WiP, anyways.