Please remove champions from HP missions
HP you mean Hero Points? The ones with champion mobs are the most fun ones, if they need to change are the ones that you do nothing and just get to the point to get it.
And as said a million of times there are very very few that you need a group, 90% of them are easily soloable.
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781
If there is any reason needed to be given here you are: it’s kittening kittened I have to look for a party to get new skill for my character.
Read: I am not only forced to do meaningless side missions HP are, but I am forced to do them in a team. It might be fun on first 2 characters, but after that it is simply annoying as hell. Especially when HP missions are boring af.
Resuming: HPs are really stupid mechanic. There are a lot of stupid mechanics in this game, but HP beats most of them. Please consider making them less of a pain or at least add some rewards for doing them.
There are a variety of ways to earn her points without soloing champions. And the HoT hero challenges with champions do offer a reward, which is partly why I do a few each week. Plus, you only need to complete 25 challenges to max your post-L80 specialization.
The numbers:
- It takes 398 points to unlock core specializations and skills: 300 for specs, 98 for skills.
- Leveling to 80 yields 398 points, exactly enough to unlock core.
- It takes 250 points to unlock the single elite spec in the game.
- There are 400 points available in HoT (40 ten-point challenges), 200 in core Tyria (one point challenges), and an additional 13 in WvW.
Some options:
- WvW: 10 proofs of heroics can be spent to gain a random HoT hero challenge.
- Core Tyria: you can get 200 of the 250 points needed from completing challenges in the original maps.
- Communing challenges: these require no fighting (or just clearing out a few vets before attempting): 22 = 7 in VB + 3 AB + Toxin (in AB) + 5 (TD) + 7 (DS)
So for example, you could do the 15 easiest-to-reach HoT commune challenges and then half the ones in core Tyria. No champions need be fought.
Of course, I’ve made it sound trivial to do this. I have dyslexia and a poor sense of spatial relationships, so finding my way around HoT is something of a nightmare. Fortunately, there are hero trains and guides, so while it might not be easy for you or I, it’s definitely possible.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
As above, you don’t need to do a single champ HP to max our your hero points for core + elite.
The champ ones are for those who want that extra challenge in the open world and it is fair for that to exist, whilst not impinging on others who want to be able do things on their own. The number of hero points allows for balance between the two types of players.
If the time ever comes that HoT is abandoned (which isn’t now), then perhaps they could readjust the champ HP’s, but as it stands, I am unconvinced of any need for it.
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
As above, you don’t need to do a single champ HP to max our your hero points for core + elite.
The champ ones are for those who want that extra challenge in the open world and it is fair for that to exist, whilst not impinging on others who want to be able do things on their own. The number of hero points allows for balance between the two types of players.
If the time ever comes that HoT is abandoned (which isn’t now), then perhaps they could readjust the champ HP’s, but as it stands, I am unconvinced of any need for it.
How many people are regularly doing the HC champs at times when no one is asking for help? There may be some, but I rarely see anyone doing them now that HoT is in the second half of its second year. The rewards for those events are lower than what comes from doing any of the events the zone offers. If GW2 has taught us anything, it should be that rewards drive the vast majority of players, not challenge.
If the “challenge” is the point, then having champ events on the map unconnected to HC’s would serve that purpose. There are champion events not tied to HC’s all over core. How many of those get done regularly if at all? Once, you could find champ trains in zones. Those weren’t being done for challenge, they were done for loot. Now, just doing regular events in HoT or in S3 zones is a lot more rewarding than champ trains used to be. So, champ trains are rarer these days, it they happen much at all.
The fact is that the HC’s are part of map completion. Map completion ought to be solo play for the vast majority of players. Dwayna knows there’s very little that’s rewarding in this game for solo play as it is, and there’s tons of rewarding content for groups.
As above, you don’t need to do a single champ HP to max our your hero points for core + elite.
The champ ones are for those who want that extra challenge in the open world and it is fair for that to exist, whilst not impinging on others who want to be able do things on their own. The number of hero points allows for balance between the two types of players.
If the time ever comes that HoT is abandoned (which isn’t now), then perhaps they could readjust the champ HP’s, but as it stands, I am unconvinced of any need for it.
How many people are regularly doing the HC champs at times when no one is asking for help? There may be some, but I rarely see anyone doing them now that HoT is in the second half of its second year. The rewards for those events are lower than what comes from doing any of the events the zone offers. If GW2 has taught us anything, it should be that rewards drive the vast majority of players, not challenge.
If the “challenge” is the point, then having champ events on the map unconnected to HC’s would serve that purpose. There are champion events not tied to HC’s all over core. How many of those get done regularly if at all? Once, you could find champ trains in zones. Those weren’t being done for challenge, they were done for loot. Now, just doing regular events in HoT or in S3 zones is a lot more rewarding than champ trains used to be. So, champ trains are rarer these days, it they happen much at all.
The fact is that the HC’s are part of map completion. Map completion ought to be solo play for the vast majority of players. Dwayna knows there’s very little that’s rewarding in this game for solo play as it is, and there’s tons of rewarding content for groups.
I have either solo’d or duo’d every HP in HoT for the first two maps (220 points alone, leaving you with only 20 more to get, or 210 if you feel like skipping Batlh which is REALLY the only unreasonable one to solo in most cases and leaving you to find three instead). The three I hit in TD are, go from starting WP to a channel from some updrafts to the enormous tree with all the flax, then leap from the flax through a vinewall to either a second vamp beast or a champ spider that is easy (it varies which spawns, but if you can do one vamp you can do the other), then drop down the very deep hole and fight the varying champ mordrem (Sniper, protector or uh… whatever the thief one is called) near the exit to DS. it takes about an hour each for the first two maps and 20 minutes for the last three points. I have done this 18 times solo, twice for each class except war, and three times for thief, because that is how many characters I have
I am NOT actually that good a player, but if you spend a LITTLE bit of time learning the boss mechanics they are not terribly challenging, and any time someone asks I will help them get these same HPs because of my regularly soloing them.
I run champ trains following a set path doing these weekly because I enjoy them, and helping others is fun for me. I would rather the champs not be removed at all, though minor updates to AI to make the door to balth slightly safer to enter would be appreciated.
Edit: Yes, map completion is gated behind these same HPs, and arguably the most difficult of these champs to solo, and the only one I have never managed to solo, is on TD (Mushroom Queen). That said, there are so many OTHER problems with map completing TD that this one HP seems minor by comparison.
(edited by Sojourner.4621)
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781
Map completion ought to be solo play for the vast majority of players.
Why is that? Shouldn’t the emphasis in an MMO be on groups, whether PUGs or guilds or in between?
Dwayna knows there’s very little that’s rewarding in this game for solo play as it is, and there’s tons of rewarding content for groups.
On the contrary, nearly everything in the game is solo content and challenging group content has only recently been added to the game.
Although I suppose, we probably have different definitions of “solo play.”
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Map completion ought to be solo play for the vast majority of players.
Why is that? Shouldn’t the emphasis in an MMO be on groups, whether PUGs or guilds or in between?
In general, the majority of players play MMOs as single player games. If they can’t simply show up and do it, they’re going to skip it. People simply don’t want to waste their time, which is why for example most people don’t bother with dungeons, yet WoW’s LFD (queue up and play) opened them to the majority. Events were originally designed for this, to naturally group solo players together as they played, but then they went zerg happy during season 1, which clearly influenced the design of HoT. They somehow failed to realize however that it only worked in season 1 because it was temporary content and thus always active. Group content is simply not sustainable – see the empty mid-level maps, or even the old current events, and imagine HoT in a few years. If they want to continue with bigger events, they would be far better of by splitting them from the maps and having you actually queue into them.
By making 1 single element of map completion group content, that means there’s no point in doing any of it. They’re only encouraging people to skip through the maps, though most likely would regardless. ArenaNet should already know what didn’t work however, since they have the numbers.
Shouldn’t the emphasis be on groups? They call those co-op multiplayer, whereas MMOs are simply virtual worlds with other people in them. MMOs were once group-only years ago, but then WoW cracked the market by being solo-friendly, yet still offering group quests, which later turned out to be a waste of resources as they had to rebalance them for solo play. Nowadays, most simply appeal the majority by making almost everything solo content and balanced for the casual players, as in easy mode. GW2 however is oddly going in the opposite direction, but it doesn’t matter as much as long as you play it while it’s active.
and challenging group content has only recently been added to the game.
Dungeons were originally called “challenging group content” and people even complained that they were impossible at first, especially back in pre-nerf beta.
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781
Map completion ought to be solo play for the vast majority of players.
Why is that? Shouldn’t the emphasis in an MMO be on groups, whether PUGs or guilds or in between?
In general, the majority of players play MMOs as single player games. If they can’t simply show up and do it, they’re going to skip it. People simply don’t want to waste their time, which is why for example most people don’t bother with dungeons, yet WoW’s LFD (queue up and play) opened them to the majority. Events were originally designed for this, to naturally group solo players together as they played, but then they went zerg happy during season 1, which clearly influenced the design of HoT. They somehow failed to realize however that it only worked in season 1 because it was temporary content and thus always active. Group content is simply not sustainable – see the empty mid-level maps, or even the old current events, and imagine HoT in a few years. If they want to continue with bigger events, they would be far better of by splitting them from the maps and having you actually queue into them.
By making 1 single element of map completion group content, that means there’s no point in doing any of it. They’re only encouraging people to skip through the maps, though most likely would regardless. ArenaNet should already know what didn’t work however, since they have the numbers.
Shouldn’t the emphasis be on groups? They call those co-op multiplayer, whereas MMOs are simply virtual worlds with other people in them. MMOs were once group-only years ago, but then WoW cracked the market by being solo-friendly, yet still offering group quests, which later turned out to be a waste of resources as they had to rebalance them for solo play. Nowadays, most simply appeal the majority by making almost everything solo content and balanced for the casual players, as in easy mode. GW2 however is oddly going in the opposite direction, but it doesn’t matter as much as long as you play it while it’s active.
and challenging group content has only recently been added to the game.
Dungeons were originally called “challenging group content” and people even complained that they were impossible at first, especially back in pre-nerf beta.
It’s true that many people considered dungeons to be difficult at launch, but that doesn’t mean that they were considered to be “challenging group content” — they were 5-person instanced content and more challenging than the personal story. Guild missions came later and haven’t been updated in ages. We’ve had world bosses and… not much else designed for larger groups.
And I simply don’t agree with your contention that most people want to solo the game. I think many (perhaps most) people genuinely enjoy doing stuff with pick up group. It’s one of the great features of this game that everyone gets the same rewards, rather than having to share or divide it up. That means it’s often in everyone’s advantage to do stuff with others, and it can be a lot more fun.
So I think it’s not only fine, it’s a good thing that there are some champions and hero challenges. Maybe a few are too difficult and/or maybe there shouldn’t be as many.
I do understand why you don’t agree (or at least, I think I do). However, I don’t agree that it’s inherently better for the game or its community for more content to be soloable — I think that might even make things worse.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
As above, you don’t need to do a single champ HP to max our your hero points for core + elite.
The champ ones are for those who want that extra challenge in the open world and it is fair for that to exist, whilst not impinging on others who want to be able do things on their own. The number of hero points allows for balance between the two types of players.
If the time ever comes that HoT is abandoned (which isn’t now), then perhaps they could readjust the champ HP’s, but as it stands, I am unconvinced of any need for it.
How many people are regularly doing the HC champs at times when no one is asking for help? There may be some, but I rarely see anyone doing them now that HoT is in the second half of its second year. The rewards for those events are lower than what comes from doing any of the events the zone offers. If GW2 has taught us anything, it should be that rewards drive the vast majority of players, not challenge.
If the “challenge” is the point, then having champ events on the map unconnected to HC’s would serve that purpose. There are champion events not tied to HC’s all over core. How many of those get done regularly if at all? Once, you could find champ trains in zones. Those weren’t being done for challenge, they were done for loot. Now, just doing regular events in HoT or in S3 zones is a lot more rewarding than champ trains used to be. So, champ trains are rarer these days, it they happen much at all.
The fact is that the HC’s are part of map completion. Map completion ought to be solo play for the vast majority of players. Dwayna knows there’s very little that’s rewarding in this game for solo play as it is, and there’s tons of rewarding content for groups.
I would disagree with that. Map completion is tied to rewards such as legendary items and other collections and these sort of rewards shouldn’t be instant gratification that are too easy because rewards as instant gratifications are already covered with easy metas/WB to do with people. If things are too easy to get, then players get them as fast as possible and then complain that the game has no rewards to go for (such as core tyria for example). And how hard are these HP anyway ? I mean we are talking about some HPs that are in 4 maps only. Players also form HP trains, others you can duo/trio them for most part. The only thing that is required in terms of low-manning is to take a cold hard look at traits, weapons and armor and choose the most relevant weapons, traits and armor that will easily counter the mechanics of a particular boss. Is it so unreasonable to do that when you can to that by simply going ooc? When the zone was designed to have more challenge that core tyria ?
I have either solo’d or duo’d every HP in HoT for the first two maps (220 points alone, leaving you with only 20 more to get, or 210 if you feel like skipping Batlh which is REALLY the only unreasonable one to solo in most cases and leaving you to find three instead).
Balth can be done without killing the champ. The really unreasonable one would be the mushroom in TD under Rata Novus.
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: AliamRationem.5172
I have either solo’d or duo’d every HP in HoT for the first two maps (220 points alone, leaving you with only 20 more to get, or 210 if you feel like skipping Batlh which is REALLY the only unreasonable one to solo in most cases and leaving you to find three instead).
Balth can be done without killing the champ. The really unreasonable one would be the mushroom in TD under Rata Novus.
Saw a video of a necro solo and I have done mushroom queen solo on my ele. It can be done. But more importantly you don’t need to solo. There are always people looking to complete these challenges. Just team up.
Having said that, if these challenges weren’t a part of map completion I wouldn’t be against it. I just like having champions to fight.
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
Map completion ought to be solo play for the vast majority of players.
Why is that? Shouldn’t the emphasis in an MMO be on groups, whether PUGs or guilds or in between?
In general, the majority of players play MMOs as single player games. If they can’t simply show up and do it, they’re going to skip it. People simply don’t want to waste their time, which is why for example most people don’t bother with dungeons, yet WoW’s LFD (queue up and play) opened them to the majority. Events were originally designed for this, to naturally group solo players together as they played, but then they went zerg happy during season 1, which clearly influenced the design of HoT. They somehow failed to realize however that it only worked in season 1 because it was temporary content and thus always active. Group content is simply not sustainable – see the empty mid-level maps, or even the old current events, and imagine HoT in a few years. If they want to continue with bigger events, they would be far better of by splitting them from the maps and having you actually queue into them.
By making 1 single element of map completion group content, that means there’s no point in doing any of it. They’re only encouraging people to skip through the maps, though most likely would regardless. ArenaNet should already know what didn’t work however, since they have the numbers.
Shouldn’t the emphasis be on groups? They call those co-op multiplayer, whereas MMOs are simply virtual worlds with other people in them. MMOs were once group-only years ago, but then WoW cracked the market by being solo-friendly, yet still offering group quests, which later turned out to be a waste of resources as they had to rebalance them for solo play. Nowadays, most simply appeal the majority by making almost everything solo content and balanced for the casual players, as in easy mode. GW2 however is oddly going in the opposite direction, but it doesn’t matter as much as long as you play it while it’s active.
and challenging group content has only recently been added to the game.
Dungeons were originally called “challenging group content” and people even complained that they were impossible at first, especially back in pre-nerf beta.
It’s true that many people considered dungeons to be difficult at launch, but that doesn’t mean that they were considered to be “challenging group content” — they were 5-person instanced content and more challenging than the personal story. Guild missions came later and haven’t been updated in ages. We’ve had world bosses and… not much else designed for larger groups.
And I simply don’t agree with your contention that most people want to solo the game. I think many (perhaps most) people genuinely enjoy doing stuff with pick up group. It’s one of the great features of this game that everyone gets the same rewards, rather than having to share or divide it up. That means it’s often in everyone’s advantage to do stuff with others, and it can be a lot more fun.
So I think it’s not only fine, it’s a good thing that there are some champions and hero challenges. Maybe a few are too difficult and/or maybe there shouldn’t be as many.
I do understand why you don’t agree (or at least, I think I do). However, I don’t agree that it’s inherently better for the game or its community for more content to be soloable — I think that might even make things worse.
The thing is, players can explore most maps in core solo. Other than a few points where temple effects require a temple be in Pact hands (Melandru and maybe Balth fields are the most problematic), players can explore all of Tyria solo. Even the temple events don’t require you actually do the temple, you just have to check back from time to time.
In core, players can also solo a lot of events (I’d say most events, really). However, the rewards are concentrated more in meta events, which require at least a modicum of players to show up. Completing a zone does offer some reward, and other than map rewards, a relatively recent addition, is the best reward for solo play.
So, then we have HoT. The percentage of events which can be soloed in HoT is smaller than in core. Map completion requires other players in the form of the champion HC’s, at least for average (or below) players. Rewards are relatively better for solo play in HoT because events award bags and “can openers” for the reward boxes (pods, cargo, etc.). However, exploration rewards are not so friendly for solo play. And Healix is right. A lot of solo players are going to blow off exploration if they can’t solo it.
Wildstar had two failure points according to NCSoft. One was that raiders didn’t want to go through the lengthy pre-raid preparation the game offered. The other was that once leveling was over, there was nothing for solo players to do. The devs tried to correct both issues when the game started to falter, but it didn’t work out so well. Developers cheesing off solo players is generally not good for the game’s financial health. There’s too much competition.
Almost all but 2 or 3 HPs can be solo’ed maybe look at your build and see why you can’t solo a HP champ.
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086
Resuming: HPs are really stupid mechanic. There are a lot of stupid mechanics in this game, but HP beats most of them. Please consider making them less of a pain or at least add some rewards for doing them.
Hero points or skill points are a fundamental aspect in any MMO. The only difference between GW2 and other MMOs – other RPGs for that matter – is that getting hero points is not restricted to experience gain.
And this, honestly, is a good thing. You may not have been around for it, but once upon a time leveling experience did give skill points instead of spirit shards (at this point, there were no hero points – hero challenges were called skill challenges and rewarded a skill point alongside leveling up or filling that bar at level 80). This, however, ended up trivializing the concept of skill points because just as people have thousands of spirit shards now, folks had thousands of skill points then. Any new skill would be instantly obtained with minimal effort.
Splitting the two were a way to ensure that it wasn’t a trivial aspect, given how rare new skills are (which is another intended design because as ArenaNet learned in GW1, having a hundred-some skills per profession gets really hard to balance).
As to the champions in Heart of Thorns’ HP, this is intended and, in fact, required because the hero challenges reward 10 points each. Honestly I’m amazed there are any commune challenges there, given how simple they are.
And while you complain, I find it fun. Besides, you do not need all 40 HoT hero challenges to max out your skills – if you get all 214 core hero points, you need only 4 HoT hero challenges (36 hero points), all of which you can get from the non-combat ones. If you’re having so much trouble, which is uncommon, a little WvW and you can buy the HPs for Proofs of Heroics.
They’ve provided all the means for you. If you’re still having issues, then the only solution ultimately is “get good” because, let’s face it, GW2 is not a hard game. It’s not like Dark Souls where you’re expected to die a lot.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781
Wildstar had two failure points according to NCSoft. One was that raiders didn’t want to go through the lengthy pre-raid preparation the game offered. The other was that once leveling was over, there was nothing for solo players to do. The devs tried to correct both issues when the game started to falter, but it didn’t work out so well. Developers cheesing off solo players is generally not good for the game’s financial health. There’s too much competition.
You think there’s too little for casual players to do after leveling to 80 in GW2/core or GW2/HoT? I can’t agree.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
- snip -
You think there’s too little for casual players to do after leveling to 80 in GW2/core or GW2/HoT? I can’t agree.
Since the topic is HoT HC’s, and some of the HoT HC’s require the defeat of Champions, why talk about core? You want to throw the old saw about if people don’t like HoT, they can just keep doing core? Remember that core is just as old for some solo players as it is for prefer-to-group players. Remember that HoT is the game going forward, and solo players who want to do story and get LW updates need to pay for HoT. It should offer their playstyle as much value as core did.
Core
Dungeons: not for solo (except maybe the top 1%)
Meta events: solo can play, but cannot be soloed
Other events: almost all can be soloed
Exploration: completely solo; less than 10 objectives across dozens of maps may be dependent on temple meta completion
Heart of Thorns
Raids: not for solo (not saying they should be so no one needs to jump on that issue)
Meta events in HoT: solo can play, cannot be soloed
Other events in HoT: solo can play; some can be soloed, some can’t
Exploration: solo play discouraged by game design because 3+ HC’s per map require the defeat of Champions (unless one is in the top 15-20% [spitballing] in PvE skill-wise)
Substantially the same, but overall less value than core. The changes are that the bar was raised in HoT for non-meta events, and exploration was discouraged for solo players.
What I find interesting is that with BSF, EB and BFF, exploration is once again solo-friendly for most everyone. What I wonder is whether the lack of HC’s there mirrors future design, with some other means needed to unlock Elite Specs. If that happens, this is likely going to be a dead issue, and ANet may leave the HoT HC Champs as is or downgrade them as HoT gets older.
- snip -
You think there’s too little for casual players to do after leveling to 80 in GW2/core or GW2/HoT? I can’t agree.
Since the topic is HoT HC’s, and some of the HoT HC’s require the defeat of Champions, why talk about core? You want to throw the old saw about if people don’t like HoT, they can just keep doing core? Remember that core is just as old for some solo players as it is for prefer-to-group players. Remember that HoT is the game going forward, and solo players who want to do story and get LW updates need to pay for HoT. It should offer their playstyle as much value as core did.
Core
Dungeons: not for solo (except maybe the top 1%)
Meta events: solo can play, but cannot be soloed
Other events: almost all can be soloed
Exploration: completely solo; less than 10 objectives across dozens of maps may be dependent on temple meta completionHeart of Thorns
Raids: not for solo (not saying they should be so no one needs to jump on that issue)
Meta events in HoT: solo can play, cannot be soloed
Other events in HoT: solo can play; some can be soloed, some can’t
Exploration: solo play discouraged by game design because 3+ HC’s per map require the defeat of Champions (unless one is in the top 15-20% [spitballing] in PvE skill-wise)Substantially the same, but overall less value than core. The changes are that the bar was raised in HoT for non-meta events, and exploration was discouraged for solo players.
What I find interesting is that with BSF, EB and BFF, exploration is once again solo-friendly for most everyone. What I wonder is whether the lack of HC’s there mirrors future design, with some other means needed to unlock Elite Specs. If that happens, this is likely going to be a dead issue, and ANet may leave the HoT HC Champs as is or downgrade them as HoT gets older.
And how does not getting those small amount of hero points really affect the game. People had a reason to complete the world. They get a title, and they get some achievement points. They get a gold star next to your name.
The reason for completing HOT maps is to get your legendary and some hot collections. You can ignore the handful of really hard hero points in HOT and still get your elite spec, which is the main reason to do them.
At the end of the day,. this is about completionists saying I can’t complete this map solo. And it’s true. It’s likely that they can’t complete that map solo. But it’s still relatively easy to complete the maps.
If you’re arguing that they should be able to complete maps solo, I’d have to ask why? Because it was mostly that way before?
But before the reward was a bit more impactful to casual players. HoT was made for a less casual player, because less casual players have been asking for that for a long time.
It’s habit that you have to complete maps. Completing a hot map is meant to be more challenging, and it is. But it’s far from impossible.
If you absolutely refuse to get help with a hero point, you won’t get map completion. And nothing about the game will actually change.
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
The reason for completing HOT maps is to get your legendary and some hot collections. You can ignore the handful of really hard hero points in HOT and still get your elite spec, which is the main reason to do them.
At the end of the day,. this is about completionists saying I can’t complete this map solo. And it’s true. It’s likely that they can’t complete that map solo. But it’s still relatively easy to complete the maps.
If you’re arguing that they should be able to complete maps solo, I’d have to ask why? Because it was mostly that way before?
Yes, I’m arguing it because map exploration is something to do. I’m arguing it because giving people more things to do is what makes MMO business models work. I believe that giving more value to solo players would have been better for the health of the game.
I believe that HoT offered too little for the demographic that prefers to play solo (and it’s a large demographic if other games are any indication). ANet set up their business plan so that those players had to buy HoT if they want to get new things to do, the ongoing story and superior specs and gear prefixes. The maps, however, offer those players a lot less than core did. Restoring exploration as a solo pastime would be a step towards adding value for those players. It’s fine, I suppose, to alienate a portion of your customer base, but I have a hard time believing that’s good for ANet.
I refuse to believe that changing a few HC’s to vets would have turned HoT into something that offers too little to the demographic that likes what Hot offers. It seems more to me like the battle lines are being drawn in fear of a slippery slope. I doubt that will happen. The LS3 maps still offer more varied mobs in terms of what players need to do to survive/defeat them.
Anyway, I think it’s a moot point. At some point, when more players have moved on from HoT, Anet either will or won’t change the champion HC’s. I doubt by the time that happens that most people will care. Meanwhile, I note that there are no HC’s on the new maps, and exploration is for the most part a solo thing. This makes me wonder if ANet is going to have us unlock any new Elite Spec via some different mechanic than Hero Points. If the new XPac maps are like LS3 in terms of exploration, I’ll be happier.
The reason for completing HOT maps is to get your legendary and some hot collections. You can ignore the handful of really hard hero points in HOT and still get your elite spec, which is the main reason to do them.
At the end of the day,. this is about completionists saying I can’t complete this map solo. And it’s true. It’s likely that they can’t complete that map solo. But it’s still relatively easy to complete the maps.
If you’re arguing that they should be able to complete maps solo, I’d have to ask why? Because it was mostly that way before?
Yes, I’m arguing it because map exploration is something to do. I’m arguing it because giving people more things to do is what makes MMO business models work. I believe that giving more value to solo players would have been better for the health of the game.
I believe that HoT offered too little for the demographic that prefers to play solo (and it’s a large demographic if other games are any indication). ANet set up their business plan so that those players had to buy HoT if they want to get new things to do, the ongoing story and superior specs and gear prefixes. The maps, however, offer those players a lot less than core did. Restoring exploration as a solo pastime would be a step towards adding value for those players. It’s fine, I suppose, to alienate a portion of your customer base, but I have a hard time believing that’s good for ANet.
I refuse to believe that changing a few HC’s to vets would have turned HoT into something that offers too little to the demographic that likes what Hot offers. It seems more to me like the battle lines are being drawn in fear of a slippery slope. I doubt that will happen. The LS3 maps still offer more varied mobs in terms of what players need to do to survive/defeat them.
Anyway, I think it’s a moot point. At some point, when more players have moved on from HoT, Anet either will or won’t change the champion HC’s. I doubt by the time that happens that most people will care. Meanwhile, I note that there are no HC’s on the new maps, and exploration is for the most part a solo thing. This makes me wonder if ANet is going to have us unlock any new Elite Spec via some different mechanic than Hero Points. If the new XPac maps are like LS3 in terms of exploration, I’ll be happier.
They have something to do. They can do what you’d do in a temple in Orr. Stand by the point until someone does it. That’s how I get temples in Orr. If you’re telling me someone can solo complete the entire game without waiting for events in Orr I’d agree with you.
They’d have to wait for about five hero points in the same way. it’s simply not that big a deal…people are making it a big deal. Many many casual even solo players have done this. It’s not hard.
It is jumping through hoops just a bit…but this is just an overstatement. Saying it’s not something to do because you have to jump through hoops isn’t really true. Everyone can do it. They can’t do it solo any more they they could solo temple of Lyssa or Grenth. They have to wait for people. It’s different, but not so different…except that you need less people and can start on your schedule.
Edit: Even easeir, those on a US server can contact me in game and they’d get them just by going around with me, which I’ve offered on numerous occassions. Some people have taken me up on it, but surprisingly few, considering how many people have complained about not being able to do it.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
They have something to do. They can do what you’d do in a temple in Orr. Stand by the point until someone does it. That’s how I get temples in Orr. If you’re telling me someone can solo complete the entire game without waiting for events in Orr I’d agree with you.
They’d have to wait for about five hero points in the same way. it’s simply not that big a deal…people are making it a big deal. Many many casual even solo players have done this. It’s not hard.
It is jumping through hoops just a bit…but this is just an overstatement. Saying it’s not something to do because you have to jump through hoops isn’t really true. Everyone can do it. They can’t do it solo any more they they could solo temple of Lyssa or Grenth. They have to wait for people. It’s different, but not so different…except that you need less people and can start on your schedule.
Edit: Even easeir, those on a US server can contact me in game and they’d get them just by going around with me, which I’ve offered on numerous occassions. Some people have taken me up on it, but surprisingly few, considering how many people have complained about not being able to do it.
There are a bit more than 5 champion HC’s in HoT. There are 3 in VB and 6 in AB (I didn’t count Balthazar because it’s a commune and it is hypothetically possible to go in and commune when the champ has been defeated even if you didn’t participate). I don’t know how many of the 11 HC’s in TD are Champs, though I’ve seen at least 3.
There’s also a big difference between Orr and HoT. In Orr, if you cannot get an HC in a temple or near a statue, you can just go do something else, or come back another time and lo and behold the temple got done. In fact, since mega server arrived, I see temples in Orr done 7 times in 10 that I go near them or pass a statue. In HoT, you cannot come back later and find the HC uncontested because finishing it means beating the Champion.
Regardless of how many have done it, or how easy it is or isn’t, the real issue is the psychology of gamers. Many players are easily put off. Convenience is so big an issue that people downgrade games if convenience feature X is not available. The mentality that the overarching desire for convenience creates is one in which people will just blow off things to do if it is inconvenient for them. It’s why we see so many complaints about HC’s, Mastery points, navigating HoT and many other things (grind, for instance). Having to put too much thought and effort into a game is more than a lot of people care to do. Those are the people who are getting turned off.
Now, maybe gaming in general, and MMO gaming in particular, was better back when people had to put a lot more effort into their games. It was certainly better for players who like games that require more thought and effort, and that offered more challenge. The thing is, though, that once WoW went more mainstream, games have been getting less intense, and more convenient, because that’s what that larger audience seems to prefer.
They have something to do. They can do what you’d do in a temple in Orr. Stand by the point until someone does it. That’s how I get temples in Orr. If you’re telling me someone can solo complete the entire game without waiting for events in Orr I’d agree with you.
They’d have to wait for about five hero points in the same way. it’s simply not that big a deal…people are making it a big deal. Many many casual even solo players have done this. It’s not hard.
It is jumping through hoops just a bit…but this is just an overstatement. Saying it’s not something to do because you have to jump through hoops isn’t really true. Everyone can do it. They can’t do it solo any more they they could solo temple of Lyssa or Grenth. They have to wait for people. It’s different, but not so different…except that you need less people and can start on your schedule.
Edit: Even easeir, those on a US server can contact me in game and they’d get them just by going around with me, which I’ve offered on numerous occassions. Some people have taken me up on it, but surprisingly few, considering how many people have complained about not being able to do it.
There are a bit more than 5 champion HC’s in HoT. There are 3 in VB and 6 in AB (I didn’t count Balthazar because it’s a commune and it is hypothetically possible to go in and commune when the champ has been defeated even if you didn’t participate). I don’t know how many of the 11 HC’s in TD are Champs, though I’ve seen at least 3.
There’s also a big difference between Orr and HoT. In Orr, if you cannot get an HC in a temple or near a statue, you can just go do something else, or come back another time and lo and behold the temple got done. In fact, since mega server arrived, I see temples in Orr done 7 times in 10 that I go near them or pass a statue. In HoT, you cannot come back later and find the HC uncontested because finishing it means beating the Champion.
Regardless of how many have done it, or how easy it is or isn’t, the real issue is the psychology of gamers. Many players are easily put off. Convenience is so big an issue that people downgrade games if convenience feature X is not available. The mentality that the overarching desire for convenience creates is one in which people will just blow off things to do if it is inconvenient for them. It’s why we see so many complaints about HC’s, Mastery points, navigating HoT and many other things (grind, for instance). Having to put too much thought and effort into a game is more than a lot of people care to do. Those are the people who are getting turned off.
Now, maybe gaming in general, and MMO gaming in particular, was better back when people had to put a lot more effort into their games. It was certainly better for players who like games that require more thought and effort, and that offered more challenge. The thing is, though, that once WoW went more mainstream, games have been getting less intense, and more convenient, because that’s what that larger audience seems to prefer.
I’m talking about HPs that can be soloed relatively easily. The flower in AB can be soloed. The golem in VB can be soloed. They’re not that hard.
There are two points in VB I wouldn’t try to solo, the bat guano and the hylek at trecherous paths. I wouldn’t solo the tengu in AB, and though Balthazar isn’t solo, you can actually do it on a map it’s already done. You don’t have to do it at all. You just have to wait for it to be done.
Maybe you can’t solo the chak either.
The point is, there’s a couple of each map, it’s still hoops and there’s still zone completion to do.
If you say you can’t do it, don’t do it, but that’s not a game problem. Those points get done every day multiple times a day and probably multiple times an hour. They’re not impossible and most of them aren’t hard, and several of the champs are soloable.
If you can’t do it, and you won’t do an HP train and you won’t ask in map chat, and you won’t have a friend join you, I find myself wondering why that’s the game’s problem.
I know too many casual people who solo who have finished completing every zone in HOT to believe that it’s a real problem.
Edit: Oh yeah, and if you do WvW or EoTM (both of which you can solo by following a commander around), you can get proof of heroics and buy those hero points without ever partying, and complete the zone that way. If you’re telling me people can’t follow a commander around WvW or EotM, or get a friend or two, or a hero point train, what you’re really saying is this game must be completable one way and one way only. And while that was mostly true of core Tyria, I don’t think it’s reasonable. There are plenty of options to get the few hero points you can’t get on your own….including standing by one and waiting for others to come along (or others to announce they’re doing it in map chat).
(edited by Vayne.8563)
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: CptAurellian.9537
I did HoT hero challenges something like two months ago on my warr and had exactly zero problems finding a few guys for each of the champ HPs. If using LFG or asking in map chat is viewed as too difficult, than that’s a confession of failure for the community.
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley
There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
If you say you can’t do it, don’t do it, but that’s not a game problem. Those points get done every day multiple times a day and probably multiple times an hour. They’re not impossible and most of them aren’t hard, and several of the champs are soloable.
If you can’t do it, and you won’t do an HP train and you won’t ask in map chat, and you won’t have a friend join you, I find myself wondering why that’s the game’s problem.
It’s a problem for the game because the people who are complaining want game play to be convenient. It’s not about doable v. not-doable, it’s about convenient versus inconvenient. If you think convenience is not a major factor in how players view games, you have not been paying attention.
I did HoT hero challenges something like two months ago on my warr and had exactly zero problems finding a few guys for each of the champ HPs. If using LFG or asking in map chat is viewed as too difficult, than that’s a confession of failure for the community.
Is that a failure for the community, or is it an artifact of MMO’s trying to expand their customer base by attracting players who don’t want the same things as many of the original MMO playerbase does?
It seems like ANet is trying to please as many people as possible to keep them around. Once you start thinking that way, the question becomes, “What is gained versus what is lost?” As I see it, no one who really likes what HoT offers is going to leave the game if a few Champion HC’s that they’ve undoubtedly done many times are down-graded to vets as long as ANet continues to add engaging content going forward. Compare that to the numbers who’ve posted (which usually means there are many more who don’t post) who think that HoT was a rip-off which they find annoying and inconvenient.
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: AliamRationem.5172
If you say you can’t do it, don’t do it, but that’s not a game problem. Those points get done every day multiple times a day and probably multiple times an hour. They’re not impossible and most of them aren’t hard, and several of the champs are soloable.
If you can’t do it, and you won’t do an HP train and you won’t ask in map chat, and you won’t have a friend join you, I find myself wondering why that’s the game’s problem.
It’s a problem for the game because the people who are complaining want game play to be convenient. It’s not about doable v. not-doable, it’s about convenient versus inconvenient. If you think convenience is not a major factor in how players view games, you have not been paying attention.
I did HoT hero challenges something like two months ago on my warr and had exactly zero problems finding a few guys for each of the champ HPs. If using LFG or asking in map chat is viewed as too difficult, than that’s a confession of failure for the community.
Is that a failure for the community, or is it an artifact of MMO’s trying to expand their customer base by attracting players who don’t want the same things as many of the original MMO playerbase does?
It seems like ANet is trying to please as many people as possible to keep them around. Once you start thinking that way, the question becomes, “What is gained versus what is lost?” As I see it, no one who really likes what HoT offers is going to leave the game if a few Champion HC’s that they’ve undoubtedly done many times are down-graded to vets as long as ANet continues to add engaging content going forward. Compare that to the numbers who’ve posted (which usually means there are many more who don’t post) who think that HoT was a rip-off which they find annoying and inconvenient.
Players who dislike HoT aren’t going to suddenly enjoy it because a few hero challenges were downgraded to veterans. However, players like myself who love HoT and routinely go back to these maps just to run around doing events and hero challenges (the champions give loot chests daily) would likely consider it a much bigger deal. Believe it or not, I have my favorites and I go back to them again and again (and help others defeat them in the process!).
As has been rehashed many times before, there are plenty of hero challenges available to unlock the elite spec without having to deal with the tougher champion hero challenges (e.g. mushroom queen, balthazar, broodmother). Downgrading only some of them is unlikely to have a great impact on players who dislike champion hero challenges because their issue is not being unable to unlock the elite, but rather being unable to map complete without assistance and unable to unlock the elite without practically exploring the whole jungle looking for the low-hanging fruit hero challenges.
In short, I think this is a suggestion that is a well-intentioned compromise, but ultimately would produce little benefit at some cost to the players who genuinely love HoT.
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
If you say you can’t do it, don’t do it, but that’s not a game problem. Those points get done every day multiple times a day and probably multiple times an hour. They’re not impossible and most of them aren’t hard, and several of the champs are soloable.
If you can’t do it, and you won’t do an HP train and you won’t ask in map chat, and you won’t have a friend join you, I find myself wondering why that’s the game’s problem.
It’s a problem for the game because the people who are complaining want game play to be convenient. It’s not about doable v. not-doable, it’s about convenient versus inconvenient. If you think convenience is not a major factor in how players view games, you have not been paying attention.
I did HoT hero challenges something like two months ago on my warr and had exactly zero problems finding a few guys for each of the champ HPs. If using LFG or asking in map chat is viewed as too difficult, than that’s a confession of failure for the community.
Is that a failure for the community, or is it an artifact of MMO’s trying to expand their customer base by attracting players who don’t want the same things as many of the original MMO playerbase does?
It seems like ANet is trying to please as many people as possible to keep them around. Once you start thinking that way, the question becomes, “What is gained versus what is lost?” As I see it, no one who really likes what HoT offers is going to leave the game if a few Champion HC’s that they’ve undoubtedly done many times are down-graded to vets as long as ANet continues to add engaging content going forward. Compare that to the numbers who’ve posted (which usually means there are many more who don’t post) who think that HoT was a rip-off which they find annoying and inconvenient.
Players who dislike HoT aren’t going to suddenly enjoy it because a few hero challenges were downgraded to veterans. However, players like myself who love HoT and routinely go back to these maps just to run around doing events and hero challenges (the champions give loot chests daily) would likely consider it a much bigger deal. Believe it or not, I have my favorites and I go back to them again and again (and help others defeat them in the process!).
As has been rehashed many times before, there are plenty of hero challenges available to unlock the elite spec without having to deal with the tougher champion hero challenges (e.g. mushroom queen, balthazar, broodmother). Downgrading only some of them is unlikely to have a great impact on players who dislike champion hero challenges because their issue is not being unable to unlock the elite, but rather being unable to map complete without assistance and unable to unlock the elite without practically exploring the whole jungle looking for the low-hanging fruit hero challenges.
In short, I think this is a suggestion that is a well-intentioned compromise, but ultimately would produce little benefit at some cost to the players who genuinely love HoT.
See, I think there would be a lot more benefit with little loss. However, another alternative would be that the Champion HC’s could offer two options — one would be a commune, the other would proc the Champion. Doubtless there will be objections to that, too. I suppose it would be instructive, though. Just how many would take the path of least resistance and how many want to fight the champ.
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: AliamRationem.5172
If you say you can’t do it, don’t do it, but that’s not a game problem. Those points get done every day multiple times a day and probably multiple times an hour. They’re not impossible and most of them aren’t hard, and several of the champs are soloable.
If you can’t do it, and you won’t do an HP train and you won’t ask in map chat, and you won’t have a friend join you, I find myself wondering why that’s the game’s problem.
It’s a problem for the game because the people who are complaining want game play to be convenient. It’s not about doable v. not-doable, it’s about convenient versus inconvenient. If you think convenience is not a major factor in how players view games, you have not been paying attention.
I did HoT hero challenges something like two months ago on my warr and had exactly zero problems finding a few guys for each of the champ HPs. If using LFG or asking in map chat is viewed as too difficult, than that’s a confession of failure for the community.
Is that a failure for the community, or is it an artifact of MMO’s trying to expand their customer base by attracting players who don’t want the same things as many of the original MMO playerbase does?
It seems like ANet is trying to please as many people as possible to keep them around. Once you start thinking that way, the question becomes, “What is gained versus what is lost?” As I see it, no one who really likes what HoT offers is going to leave the game if a few Champion HC’s that they’ve undoubtedly done many times are down-graded to vets as long as ANet continues to add engaging content going forward. Compare that to the numbers who’ve posted (which usually means there are many more who don’t post) who think that HoT was a rip-off which they find annoying and inconvenient.
Players who dislike HoT aren’t going to suddenly enjoy it because a few hero challenges were downgraded to veterans. However, players like myself who love HoT and routinely go back to these maps just to run around doing events and hero challenges (the champions give loot chests daily) would likely consider it a much bigger deal. Believe it or not, I have my favorites and I go back to them again and again (and help others defeat them in the process!).
As has been rehashed many times before, there are plenty of hero challenges available to unlock the elite spec without having to deal with the tougher champion hero challenges (e.g. mushroom queen, balthazar, broodmother). Downgrading only some of them is unlikely to have a great impact on players who dislike champion hero challenges because their issue is not being unable to unlock the elite, but rather being unable to map complete without assistance and unable to unlock the elite without practically exploring the whole jungle looking for the low-hanging fruit hero challenges.
In short, I think this is a suggestion that is a well-intentioned compromise, but ultimately would produce little benefit at some cost to the players who genuinely love HoT.
See, I think there would be a lot more benefit with little loss. However, another alternative would be that the Champion HC’s could offer two options — one would be a commune, the other would proc the Champion. Doubtless there will be objections to that, too. I suppose it would be instructive, though. Just how many would take the path of least resistance and how many want to fight the champ.
If you provided proper incentives based on the concept of effort vs. reward, who cares? Of course, some players would then insist that they are being forced to solo champions in order to receive the reward (duh?). What can you do?
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
If you say you can’t do it, don’t do it, but that’s not a game problem. Those points get done every day multiple times a day and probably multiple times an hour. They’re not impossible and most of them aren’t hard, and several of the champs are soloable.
If you can’t do it, and you won’t do an HP train and you won’t ask in map chat, and you won’t have a friend join you, I find myself wondering why that’s the game’s problem.
It’s a problem for the game because the people who are complaining want game play to be convenient. It’s not about doable v. not-doable, it’s about convenient versus inconvenient. If you think convenience is not a major factor in how players view games, you have not been paying attention.
I did HoT hero challenges something like two months ago on my warr and had exactly zero problems finding a few guys for each of the champ HPs. If using LFG or asking in map chat is viewed as too difficult, than that’s a confession of failure for the community.
Is that a failure for the community, or is it an artifact of MMO’s trying to expand their customer base by attracting players who don’t want the same things as many of the original MMO playerbase does?
It seems like ANet is trying to please as many people as possible to keep them around. Once you start thinking that way, the question becomes, “What is gained versus what is lost?” As I see it, no one who really likes what HoT offers is going to leave the game if a few Champion HC’s that they’ve undoubtedly done many times are down-graded to vets as long as ANet continues to add engaging content going forward. Compare that to the numbers who’ve posted (which usually means there are many more who don’t post) who think that HoT was a rip-off which they find annoying and inconvenient.
Players who dislike HoT aren’t going to suddenly enjoy it because a few hero challenges were downgraded to veterans. However, players like myself who love HoT and routinely go back to these maps just to run around doing events and hero challenges (the champions give loot chests daily) would likely consider it a much bigger deal. Believe it or not, I have my favorites and I go back to them again and again (and help others defeat them in the process!).
As has been rehashed many times before, there are plenty of hero challenges available to unlock the elite spec without having to deal with the tougher champion hero challenges (e.g. mushroom queen, balthazar, broodmother). Downgrading only some of them is unlikely to have a great impact on players who dislike champion hero challenges because their issue is not being unable to unlock the elite, but rather being unable to map complete without assistance and unable to unlock the elite without practically exploring the whole jungle looking for the low-hanging fruit hero challenges.
In short, I think this is a suggestion that is a well-intentioned compromise, but ultimately would produce little benefit at some cost to the players who genuinely love HoT.
See, I think there would be a lot more benefit with little loss. However, another alternative would be that the Champion HC’s could offer two options — one would be a commune, the other would proc the Champion. Doubtless there will be objections to that, too. I suppose it would be instructive, though. Just how many would take the path of least resistance and how many want to fight the champ.
If you provided proper incentives based on the concept of effort vs. reward, who cares? Of course, some players would then insist that they are being forced to solo champions in order to receive the reward (duh?). What can you do?
As it is, the bag for repeating the champ HC’s is no better, and might be worse, than the bad for finishing the random vet events ANet added in 4/2016. Obviously, there would be no reward bag for communing, just the HP.
If you say you can’t do it, don’t do it, but that’s not a game problem. Those points get done every day multiple times a day and probably multiple times an hour. They’re not impossible and most of them aren’t hard, and several of the champs are soloable.
If you can’t do it, and you won’t do an HP train and you won’t ask in map chat, and you won’t have a friend join you, I find myself wondering why that’s the game’s problem.
It’s a problem for the game because the people who are complaining want game play to be convenient. It’s not about doable v. not-doable, it’s about convenient versus inconvenient. If you think convenience is not a major factor in how players view games, you have not been paying attention.
I did HoT hero challenges something like two months ago on my warr and had exactly zero problems finding a few guys for each of the champ HPs. If using LFG or asking in map chat is viewed as too difficult, than that’s a confession of failure for the community.
Is that a failure for the community, or is it an artifact of MMO’s trying to expand their customer base by attracting players who don’t want the same things as many of the original MMO playerbase does?
It seems like ANet is trying to please as many people as possible to keep them around. Once you start thinking that way, the question becomes, “What is gained versus what is lost?” As I see it, no one who really likes what HoT offers is going to leave the game if a few Champion HC’s that they’ve undoubtedly done many times are down-graded to vets as long as ANet continues to add engaging content going forward. Compare that to the numbers who’ve posted (which usually means there are many more who don’t post) who think that HoT was a rip-off which they find annoying and inconvenient.
Players who dislike HoT aren’t going to suddenly enjoy it because a few hero challenges were downgraded to veterans. However, players like myself who love HoT and routinely go back to these maps just to run around doing events and hero challenges (the champions give loot chests daily) would likely consider it a much bigger deal. Believe it or not, I have my favorites and I go back to them again and again (and help others defeat them in the process!).
As has been rehashed many times before, there are plenty of hero challenges available to unlock the elite spec without having to deal with the tougher champion hero challenges (e.g. mushroom queen, balthazar, broodmother). Downgrading only some of them is unlikely to have a great impact on players who dislike champion hero challenges because their issue is not being unable to unlock the elite, but rather being unable to map complete without assistance and unable to unlock the elite without practically exploring the whole jungle looking for the low-hanging fruit hero challenges.
In short, I think this is a suggestion that is a well-intentioned compromise, but ultimately would produce little benefit at some cost to the players who genuinely love HoT.
See, I think there would be a lot more benefit with little loss. However, another alternative would be that the Champion HC’s could offer two options — one would be a commune, the other would proc the Champion. Doubtless there will be objections to that, too. I suppose it would be instructive, though. Just how many would take the path of least resistance and how many want to fight the champ.
If you provided proper incentives based on the concept of effort vs. reward, who cares? Of course, some players would then insist that they are being forced to solo champions in order to receive the reward (duh?). What can you do?
As it is, the bag for repeating the champ HC’s is no better, and might be worse, than the bad for finishing the random vet events ANet added in 4/2016. Obviously, there would be no reward bag for communing, just the HP.
The bag wouldn’t be worth the time. I’d just commune. But it wouldn’t make the game better for me.
Please remove champions from HP missions
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781
- snip -
You think there’s too little for casual players to do after leveling to 80 in GW2/core or GW2/HoT? I can’t agree.
Since the topic is HoT HC’s, and some of the HoT HC’s require the defeat of Champions, why talk about core?
So don’t talk about core. I asked about both /core and /HoT. You think there’s too little for casuals to do in HoT? I still can’t agree.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
As someone who got Elite specs for all of my 43 characters. I wouldn’t mind if ANet gets rid of Champs in HoT HP, but it isn’t hard to get 250 HP for the elite specs.
In VB HP, just ask for help in the map. Most of the HP is soloable by channeling anyways. Wait for night so that you can reach the guano hp.
In AB HP, start a HP train. I can get a group easily for it. There are a ton of champs.
By the time you reach TD, you only need 2-3 HP. There are enough soloable ones. If you don’t have the masteries for the solo ones. Start a HP train.
5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
As someone who got Elite specs for all of my 43 characters. I wouldn’t mind if ANet gets rid of Champs in HoT HP, but it isn’t hard to get 250 HP for the elite specs.
In VB HP, just ask for help in the map. Most of the HP is soloable by channeling anyways. Wait for night so that you can reach the guano hp.
In AB HP, start a HP train. I can get a group easily for it. There are a ton of champs.
By the time you reach TD, you only need 2-3 HP. There are enough soloable ones. If you don’t have the masteries for the solo ones. Start a HP train.
If you have updraft use and jumping mushrooms you don’t have to wait for night to reach the guano HP. However, that’s the hardest HP to beat in the zone, so if you don’t like difficult content you might think about skipping that one.
As someone who got Elite specs for all of my 43 characters. I wouldn’t mind if ANet gets rid of Champs in HoT HP, but it isn’t hard to get 250 HP for the elite specs.
In VB HP, just ask for help in the map. Most of the HP is soloable by channeling anyways. Wait for night so that you can reach the guano hp.
In AB HP, start a HP train. I can get a group easily for it. There are a ton of champs.
By the time you reach TD, you only need 2-3 HP. There are enough soloable ones. If you don’t have the masteries for the solo ones. Start a HP train.
If you have updraft use and jumping mushrooms you don’t have to wait for night to reach the guano HP. However, that’s the hardest HP to beat in the zone, so if you don’t like difficult content you might think about skipping that one.
You don’t have to wait for night, but you need a group to do that event. At night, there is always a group that wants to do Guano HP.
You don’t need to skip that one. Just set a timer for the time when chopper to come down to take people to canopy. Then you can go back to get that HP.
5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
As someone who got Elite specs for all of my 43 characters. I wouldn’t mind if ANet gets rid of Champs in HoT HP, but it isn’t hard to get 250 HP for the elite specs.
In VB HP, just ask for help in the map. Most of the HP is soloable by channeling anyways. Wait for night so that you can reach the guano hp.
In AB HP, start a HP train. I can get a group easily for it. There are a ton of champs.
By the time you reach TD, you only need 2-3 HP. There are enough soloable ones. If you don’t have the masteries for the solo ones. Start a HP train.
If you have updraft use and jumping mushrooms you don’t have to wait for night to reach the guano HP. However, that’s the hardest HP to beat in the zone, so if you don’t like difficult content you might think about skipping that one.
You don’t have to wait for night, but you need a group to do that event. At night, there is always a group that wants to do Guano HP.
You don’t need to skip that one. Just set a timer for the time when chopper to come down to take people to canopy. Then you can go back to get that HP.
That I agree with. I’m going under the assumption that the most casual players tend not to want to look at timers, or play on a schedule or wait for stuff. They just want to go and do stuff.
There are more than enough points in the game you can go and do to unlock your elite spec. So if that’s what you’re after, skipping bat guano is probably easier.
Almost all but 2 or 3 HPs can be solo’ed maybe look at your build and see why you can’t solo a HP champ.
I agree now. I would not have agreed 2 months ago though. When you enter HoT with skill and gear that’s just good enough for Tyria, you will die a lot. In Tyria, you can do almost everything without taking care of your build. So my attitude when I entered Maguuma was that I expected it to be like Tyria. I didn’t even have all exotic gear, had no idea how runes work and just used weapon sigils that happened to be on the weapons when I looted them or got them as reward. Didn’t use food or nourishment either. That was all fine for Tyria.
The proper way would have been to play Tyria a few weeks more to get the required skill and gear, and then enter the HoT story. However, I wanted the Masteries, and not play a few more weeks without them. So of course I sucked in HoT the first weeks and thought nothing can be soloed. By now, it’s clear to me that it was not the content that made it difficult, I just sucked. But looking back, I would still want the Masteries and would do it the same way I did it before: playing HoT without being ready for it.
Now, with ascended gear, proper runes and sigils, and more skilled, I don’t find HoT hard. I can solo HP champs and solo events. First thing I did when I was geared up was killing a few stoneheads in Auric Basin because they terrorized me before every time I entered the place. Now they were easy to kill.
I guess the designers didn’t expect players to be at the “enter HoT” stage without being prepared by then. If you ask now if I find HoT and the HP champs hard, I will answer no. But I see where those who say it’s hard are coming from. You don’t want the HPs in 3 weeks, you want them now, to get your elite trait.
Herleve – Ruins of Surmia
To the OP. If you want the HPs in HOT to unlock your HOT specialization and don’t want to wait for other players to help out (or don’t want to crawl around the canopy to find them), just go to Edge of the Mist WvW and do a bit of mindless zerging. With each gained level in WvW, you’ll get tokens that can be traded in to advance your HOT HPs. If you want map completion, then you’ll either have to lfg or find the HP and wait for someone else to show up if you don’t want to solo the champ.