Guild Wars 2

The typical MMO will charge you 15$/month as a subscription fee.

This is 540$ for 3 years which is about the amount of time Guild Wars 2 has been out for.

The fact that people have the urge to complain about the price is rattling. I can’t believe that people who have been playing this game for 3 years can’t manage to support it further by dishing out 50$ for an x-pac. “bbb-ut it comes with the core game and I had tttt-oo buy the core game separately”. Yeah well wouldn’t it be darned if Arena Net made new players pay 50 dollars for the core game, then charge another 50 dollars for an x-pac. That’s sure to reeeeel in the new comers! Doesn’t that sound like the best business model ever? “Come play our game for 50 dollars, but make sure to drop another 50 for the x-pac you won’t have when you buy it!”

To the people complaining about the amount of content we are getting for the price: you payed for the game once, and received 3 years worth of content, the enjoyable value of that content is subject to ones personal preference, but nonetheless, you will have another 3 years of MORE CONTENT. The only plausible argument I see is that we aren’t receiving an extra character slot and THAT is the ONLY problem I see.

/RANTOVER

People are just over reacting, I’m just gonna ignore them. Buy my HoT and live happily ever after.

Already bought it. /happydance

I’ve bought gems with irl money, bought multiple accounts and I purchased the game at launch. I also bought all of GW1’s content (outside those mini-missions that took place in the past). Specifically I bought 2 base game accounts when they were on sale in the past 6 months. I’ve supported the game. Also we’re now in the era where P2P isn’t a viable model for most MMOs. There are plenty of F2P or B2P MMOs like Rift, SWTOR, ESO, TERA and Aion. The last two are F2P and don’t charge players for any new expansions (including new classes). The rest certainly don’t charge $50.

I’m not sure if you’ve read any of the threads, but people are complaining because:
A) The expansion comes with the base game for “free” despite the FAQ never mentioning that. I doubt many people would have bought accounts these past few months if they new they were getting one for free with the expansion. This also does nothing to help current players, the ones who have been supporting the game, enabling them to create HoT in the first place.

B) Compared to other MMOs and even GW1’s expansion (GWEN) and campaigns the price of HoT doesn’t match the size when you compare it.

C) There’s still plenty of content they haven’t shown like the rest of the specializations, what this “challenging content” is, how many maps we’re getting. I generally dislike pre-orders, but I dislike them even more when the dev wants us to pre-order without knowing the specifics of the main portions of the content is. Unless we’re far, far from release I don’t see us getting 3 years worth of content from the expansion based on what they’ve announced the game will have and what they’ve shown us. But neither of us know what’s left. We can only make assumptions on what they’ve chosen to show us. Collin did say in an interview with Angry Joe that all the major content was announced so I don’t think they have any secrets left.

You make it sound like anet are our friends. They are a business and it is not our responsibility to keep them running. They decided to make a game that lives largely off of gem store purchases and if you look at things they are doing fine. there seem to be two main complaints from people. One is simple and that HOT does not have enough content in it to be worth 50 dollars. As far as we know now, you only get 2-3 maps, guild halls, the revenant and elite specializations with HOT. The entire game of guild wars is usually worth about 40 dollars and since they chose that price, this is them saying this is worth more than the entire game. The second point is that new players buying the 50 dollar option get access to all the many many hours of content in guild wars and HOT for that price whereas a veteran only gets the meager offerings (we’ve seen so far) of HOT.

for me it’s not fine. i bought the game 4 days ago for $40

Cloudz.6890:

I’ve bought gems with irl money, bought multiple accounts and I purchased the game at launch. I also bought all of GW1’s content (outside those mini-missions that took place in the past). Specifically I bought 2 base game accounts when they were on sale in the past 6 months. I’ve supported the game. Also we’re now in the era where P2P isn’t a viable model for most MMOs. There are plenty of F2P or B2P MMOs like Rift, SWTOR, ESO, TERA and Aion. The last two are F2P and don’t charge players for any new expansions (including new classes). The rest certainly don’t charge $50.

I’m not sure if you’ve read any of the threads, but people are complaining because:
A) The expansion comes with the base game for “free” despite the FAQ never mentioning that. I doubt many people would have bought accounts these past few months if they new they were getting one for free with the expansion. This also does nothing to help current players, the ones who have been supporting the game, enabling them to create HoT in the first place.

B) Compared to other MMOs and even GW1’s expansion (GWEN) and campaigns the price of HoT doesn’t match the size when you compare it.

C) There’s still plenty of content they haven’t shown like the rest of the specializations, what this “challenging content” is, how many maps we’re getting. I generally dislike pre-orders, but I dislike them even more when the dev wants us to pre-order without knowing the specifics of the main portions of the content is. Unless we’re far, far from release I don’t see us getting 3 years worth of content from the expansion based on what they’ve announced the game will have and what they’ve shown us. But neither of us know what’s left. We can only make assumptions on what they’ve chosen to show us. Collin did say in an interview with Angry Joe that all the major content was announced so I don’t think they have any secrets left.

To start my reply off I’d like to tell you that buying gems with irl $ is completely unnecessary, gw2 is probably the easiest game to acquire currency in.

I agree P2P isn’t viable…but guild wars isn’t pay to play so I don’t know where you are getting at with that. There are still plenty of games that require a subscription fee. Like you said, we do not know whats left in store for HoT, so you simply can not compare it to GW1.

As a player I see where you are coming from, but from a business standpoint, making newcomers technically pay 100$ is ridiculous (HoT + Base game if it didn’t come with HoT). Be honest, the only arguement I am seeing is that HoT comes with base game.

People don’t consider all aspects of this notion. This will bring more players to Guild Wars 2, which in-turns improves player enjoyment. For example: this will lower queues for PvP, stabilize the market etc.

I can’t take anyone serious because there only claim is “I payed for it already, why don’t you have too?”. Nobody wants to analyze the reasons, they just want something for nothing.

Dakunaito.9602:

for me it’s not fine. i bought the game 4 days ago for $40

You can ask for a refund/upgrade, Anet said if you bought the game recently they will offer refund/upgrade.

I mentioned my purchasing gems because you said “I can’t believe that people who have been playing this game for 3 years can’t manage to support it further by dishing out 50$ for an x-pac.” vaguely implying that people who don’t pay $50 for the xpac aren’t supporting the game past their initial purchase.

I mentioned P2P MMOs because you did in your first sentence. “The typical MMO will charge you 15$/month as a subscription fee.” You’re correct in that there are P2P MMOs still exisiting and there are some P2P MMOs (like WoW) that charge similar prices for expansions. That’s not comparing apples to apples though. If you compare a B2P MMO or even a F2P MMO’s expansion cost they are typically lower than $50. Which makes the $50 anet is charging for HoT seem out of place when you look at its competitors.

$50 is a GREAT price for new players getting the base game and the xpac. However, it’s not good for the xpac alone. If the Core game and xpac were 2 different codes, letting you create a new core game account by itself, this might be a different discussion. I don’t see how the " the only arguement I am seeing is that HoT comes with base game" is when I mention that the price isn’t comparable when I mention those other MMOs with lower xpac costs. I have 3 arguments. I lettered them.

You can’t judge a game on what content might be there. You can only judge on what you are shown. In the perfect world anet is hiding a core game’s worth of content for the release date. In a practical world a sensible person would judge a item on what they can see, instead of what they hope they might get.

Cloudz.6890:

I mentioned my purchasing gems because you said “I can’t believe that people who have been playing this game for 3 years can’t manage to support it further by dishing out 50$ for an x-pac.” vaguely implying that people who don’t pay $50 for the xpac aren’t supporting the game past their initial purchase.

I mentioned P2P MMOs because you did in your first sentence. “The typical MMO will charge you 15$/month as a subscription fee.” You’re correct in that there are P2P MMOs still exisiting and there are some P2P MMOs (like WoW) that charge similar prices for expansions. That’s not comparing apples to apples though. If you compare a B2P MMO or even a F2P MMO’s expansion cost they are typically lower than $50. Which makes the $50 anet is charging for HoT seem out of place when you look at its competitors.

$50 is a GREAT price for new players getting the base game and the xpac. However, it’s not good for the xpac alone. If the Core game and xpac were 2 different codes, letting you create a new core game account by itself, this might be a different discussion. I don’t see how the " the only arguement I am seeing is that HoT comes with base game" is when I mention that the price isn’t comparable when I mention those other MMOs with lower xpac costs. I have 3 arguments. I lettered them.

You can’t judge a game on what content might be there. You can only judge on what you are shown. In the perfect world anet is hiding a core game’s worth of content for the release date. In a practical world a sensible person would judge a item on what they can see, instead of what they hope they might get.

I’m about to expletive you up with knowledge, are you ready?

Buying gems with real life money is completely optional. Yes that supports the game, but you do not need to whatsoever. Making gold in guild wars 2 is very, very easy. I said “support it FURTHER”, which implies that you are already supporting the game. Yup read her again.

Okay, B2P, and P2P. In a world that didn’t have B2P, there would only be Free to play, and Pay to play. THAT is the scenario I gave you. I realize you lettered your arguments, and I shot down all 3 of them, they aren’t strong points. Anet said they will refund players who purchased the game recently.

Here comes the knowledge I was talking about earlier: watch this video of two arena net employees speaking about how they build their competitive scene in Gw2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLslqhBn3PU

This is from a PvP aspect, but still applies to other parts of the game. You will find that in the video they state that they create content that has replayable value. Okay? There is a difference between quantity and quality friend.

Yes you can judge the game based on what is shown, but you can not judge the game based on what you have not played. I never thought I would invest all my time into PvP until I tried it 1.5 years ago, but look at me now, all I do is PvP.

Jelzouki.4128:

Cloudz.6890:

I mentioned my purchasing gems because you said “I can’t believe that people who have been playing this game for 3 years can’t manage to support it further by dishing out 50$ for an x-pac.” vaguely implying that people who don’t pay $50 for the xpac aren’t supporting the game past their initial purchase.

I mentioned P2P MMOs because you did in your first sentence. “The typical MMO will charge you 15$/month as a subscription fee.” You’re correct in that there are P2P MMOs still exisiting and there are some P2P MMOs (like WoW) that charge similar prices for expansions. That’s not comparing apples to apples though. If you compare a B2P MMO or even a F2P MMO’s expansion cost they are typically lower than $50. Which makes the $50 anet is charging for HoT seem out of place when you look at its competitors.

$50 is a GREAT price for new players getting the base game and the xpac. However, it’s not good for the xpac alone. If the Core game and xpac were 2 different codes, letting you create a new core game account by itself, this might be a different discussion. I don’t see how the " the only arguement I am seeing is that HoT comes with base game" is when I mention that the price isn’t comparable when I mention those other MMOs with lower xpac costs. I have 3 arguments. I lettered them.

You can’t judge a game on what content might be there. You can only judge on what you are shown. In the perfect world anet is hiding a core game’s worth of content for the release date. In a practical world a sensible person would judge a item on what they can see, instead of what they hope they might get.

I’m about to expletive you up with knowledge, are you ready?

Buying gems with real life money is completely optional. Yes that supports the game, but you do not need to whatsoever. Making gold in guild wars 2 is very, very easy. I said “support it FURTHER”, which implies that you are already supporting the game. Yup read her again.

Okay, B2P, and P2P. In a world that didn’t have B2P, there would only be Free to play, and Pay to play. THAT is the scenario I gave you. I realize you lettered your arguments, and I shot down all 3 of them, they aren’t strong points. Anet said they will refund players who purchased the game recently.

Here comes the knowledge I was talking about earlier: watch this video of two arena net employees speaking about how they build their competitive scene in Gw2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLslqhBn3PU

This is from a PvP aspect, but still applies to other parts of the game. You will find that in the video they state that they create content that has replayable value. Okay? There is a difference between quantity and quality friend.

Yes you can judge the game based on what is shown, but you can not judge the game based on what you have not played. I never thought I would invest all my time into PvP until I tried it 1.5 years ago, but look at me now, all I do is PvP.

I assumed your “further” comment referenced the initial purchase made since it is a B2P game. Actually though, if I’ve supported the game multiple games (albeit optionally, but then again so is the expansion) why is the cost higher than its competitors. WoW is an unfair comparison. It’s one of the oldest, still active MMOs and is by far the most popular. It’s bleeding customers, but it can afford to charge the relatively high price for its expansions due to the sheer number of players that will purchase it. It pretty much stands at the top when you compare it to any MMO.

Again, if you compare GW2’s expansion price to the expansion price of the vast majority of other MMOs (and specifically its non-sub competitors) it’s priced higher.

The video was an interesting watch, but that still goes with the assumption that we’re getting a decent amount of content and/or that the content is very replayable. We simply haven’t seen that. I’m not judging the quality of the content. I’m judging the quantity. The quality is subjective and we haven’t seen much of HoT to really get a good opinion of it anyway. One simply can’t make an informed purchase of this product with so little actual/confirmed information given.

I’m not pre-ordering HoT for 2 main reasons. We haven’t seen enough content to get a full understanding of the scope and quality and it’s priced higher than its competitors.

Jelzouki.4128:

all I do is PvP.

Ah, thank you for clearing that up. Enjoy your free PvP map, which you DO NOT have to pay for, according to the interview in TenTonHammer back in February. I suppose $50 doesn’t sound like much at all when you’re getting the only piece of the expansion that you care about for free.

Are there any other things that you’ll never have to buy that you think are a great deal? I’d love to hear about them (^_^)

Otokomae.9356:

Jelzouki.4128:

all I do is PvP.

Ah, thank you for clearing that up. Enjoy your free PvP map, which you DO NOT have to pay for, according to the interview in TenTonHammer back in February. I suppose $50 doesn’t sound like much at all when you’re getting the only piece of the expansion that you care about for free.

Are there any other things that you’ll never have to buy that you think are a great deal? I’d love to hear about them (^_^)

Yeah I’ve leveled 3/5 characters to 80 through PvE, and crafted incinerator and howler through Pve. I’ve also got 10.5k achievement points. I’m on level 50 fractals. Any other smart comments you want to make? I’m pretty sure Heart of Thorns gives me access to Elite Specializations, which yes is a HUGE deal for PvP.

If you only knew how much PvP players asked to be able to queue from PvE again, you wouldn’t have made that comment. Look at my signature for god sake man.

Jelzouki.4128:

Otokomae.9356:

Jelzouki.4128:

all I do is PvP.

Ah, thank you for clearing that up. Enjoy your free PvP map, which you DO NOT have to pay for, according to the interview in TenTonHammer back in February. I suppose $50 doesn’t sound like much at all when you’re getting the only piece of the expansion that you care about for free.

Are there any other things that you’ll never have to buy that you think are a great deal? I’d love to hear about them (^_^)

Yeah I’ve leveled 3/5 characters to 80 through PvE, and crafted incinerator and howler through Pve. I’ve also got 10.5k achievement points. I’m on level 50 fractals. Any other smart comments you want to make? I’m pretty sure Heart of Thorns gives me access to Elite Specializations, which yes is a HUGE deal.

It may be a smart kitten comment, but if all you do is PvP HoT isn’t bringing you anything you won’t get for free. All that quality means nothing if you’re not actually playing it.

EDIT: You ninja edited your comment lol. I suppose I’ll just stick to my original point of the lack of information we currently have in regards to specs.

Jelzouki.4128:

The typical MMO will charge you 15$/month as a subscription fee.

First off no, sub MMOs aren’t typical in 2015 they are rare and dying. Secondly, I would never have looked into gw1 or gw2 if they required a sub, I was happy with WoW so your arguement begins with non starters.

I own a collector’s edition I’ve bought gems I own a second account and I will not be pre ordering HoT that’s my decision as a consumer.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Jelzouki.4128:

The typical MMO will charge you 15$/month as a subscription fee.

First off no, sub MMOs aren’t typical in 2015 they are rare and dying. Secondly, I would never have looked into gw1 or gw2 if they required a sub, I was happy with WoW so your arguement begins with non starters.

I own a collector’s edition I’ve bought gems I own a second account and I will not be pre ordering HoT that’s my decision as a consumer.

You are entitled to that decision. I only stated the subscription fee scenario, because some successful MMOs have run off that model. Notably, WoW, Runescape, FFXIV: ARR. If Guild Wars 2 wasn’t B2P, it would have been P2P.

I am merely providing rebuttle to the players who are against this executive decision made by Arena Net.

Yeah cloudz, I edited that quick, and we seem to have hit submit at the same time. (1953)

Jelzouki.4128:

The typical MMO will charge you 15$/month as a subscription fee.

This is 540$ for 3 years [snip]

This.

Jelzouki.4128:

The typical MMO will charge you 15$/month as a subscription fee.

This is 540$ for 3 years which is about the amount of time Guild Wars 2 has been out for.

The fact that people have the urge to complain about the price is rattling. I can’t believe that people who have been playing this game for 3 years can’t manage to support it further by dishing out 50$ for an x-pac. “bbb-ut it comes with the core game and I had tttt-oo buy the core game separately”. Yeah well wouldn’t it be darned if Arena Net made new players pay 50 dollars for the core game, then charge another 50 dollars for an x-pac. That’s sure to reeeeel in the new comers! Doesn’t that sound like the best business model ever? “Come play our game for 50 dollars, but make sure to drop another 50 for the x-pac you won’t have when you buy it!”

To the people complaining about the amount of content we are getting for the price: you payed for the game once, and received 3 years worth of content, the enjoyable value of that content is subject to ones personal preference, but nonetheless, you will have another 3 years of MORE CONTENT. The only plausible argument I see is that we aren’t receiving an extra character slot and THAT is the ONLY problem I see.

/RANTOVER

You make it so simple. it is people who bought it recently and now see they could have waited a month to get all of it for the same price. Also, if you are truly happy with the price, why are you here trying to justify it? Go play beta instead of trying to force your opinions down on others. You only see the world through your own lens. “I played GW2 for 3 years….EVERYONE has played GW2 for 3 years.” There is a vastly more complex and diverse community here. People with different views, income levels, and amount of time invested in the game. Some of those 3 year vets may also only log in once or twice a week for a couple of hours. Le the complainers complain and the happy people go play beta rather than incite internet debates..

The entire point of a debate is to come to the most reasonable answer. Their is always two sides, right or wrong, and I have the right as a player to help arena net see that they didn’t do much wrong.

As someone previously mentioned, players who recently bought the game will be getting a refund.

Jelzouki.4128:

The typical MMO will charge you 15$/month as a subscription fee.

This is 540$ for 3 years which is about the amount of time Guild Wars 2 has been out for.

Ah, the “typical MMO”?

Like The Elder Scrolls Online? Oh wait, that’s B2P!

Maybe like Tera? Oh no, that’s Free to Play.

So like The Old Republic? Dang, no, that’s Free to Play too now.

Then like Wildstar? Wait, what’s that “Free-to-Play” notice I see at their website?

I guess it’s like The Secret World then? Nah, that’s buy to play.

Funny that you begin your post with such a blatantly false statement. I fear it doesn’t get any better after that, either.

Jelzouki.4128:

You are entitled to that decision. I only stated the subscription fee scenario, because some successful MMOs have run off that model. Notably, WoW, Runescape, FFXIV: ARR. If Guild Wars 2 wasn’t B2P, it would have been P2P.

Runescape, the one with the big tag about being the “Free MMORPG”? Oh right, that one.

And for the records, if GW2 wasn’t B2P, it would obviously have been free to play like most of the games I mentioned, and like most MMORPGs today. It lacks everything – scope, quality, polish, etc – to ever be P2P. Meanwhile, it already has most of the small little annoyances of F2P MMORPGs, like a heavy focus on microtransactions, selling gold for real money, log-in rewards, and so on.

Jelzouki.4128:

The entire point of a debate is to come to the most reasonable answer. Their is always two sides, right or wrong

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

if you think the game isn’t good enough then you can always just stop playing. There are others in here that think this is a fantastic game and well worth its price.
I’ve played many MMOs in the past and I have to say the difference in quality shows.

I dunno if I’d say the price is “fine” or that they shouldn’t lower it (why would I want to spend more money if I didn’t have to, after all)…

But at the same time, it’s not like the price tag is completely out of left field without any precedent either. That $40-60 range is pretty much the industry standard, the lowest realistic cover price for this expansion wasn’t going to be much lower than it is.

I think people know it too. The REAL kittening about this is pretty much entirely centered around not getting a new character slot. Entitled brats don’t want to admit the rage is that shallow though.

Test.8734:

Jelzouki.4128:

The typical MMO will charge you 15$/month as a subscription fee.

This is 540$ for 3 years which is about the amount of time Guild Wars 2 has been out for.

Ah, the “typical MMO”?

Like The Elder Scrolls Online? Oh wait, that’s B2P!

Maybe like Tera? Oh no, that’s Free to Play.

So like The Old Republic? Dang, no, that’s Free to Play too now.

Then like Wildstar? Wait, what’s that “Free-to-Play” notice I see at their website?

I guess it’s like The Secret World then? Nah, that’s buy to play.

Funny that you begin your post with such a blatantly false statement. I fear it doesn’t get any better after that, either.

Jelzouki.4128:

You are entitled to that decision. I only stated the subscription fee scenario, because some successful MMOs have run off that model. Notably, WoW, Runescape, FFXIV: ARR. If Guild Wars 2 wasn’t B2P, it would have been P2P.

Runescape, the one with the big tag about being the “Free MMORPG”? Oh right, that one.

And for the records, if GW2 wasn’t B2P, it would obviously have been free to play like most of the games I mentioned, and like most MMORPGs today. It lacks everything – scope, quality, polish, etc – to ever be P2P. Meanwhile, it already has most of the small little annoyances of F2P MMORPGs, like a heavy focus on microtransactions, selling gold for real money, log-in rewards, and so on.

Jelzouki.4128:

The entire point of a debate is to come to the most reasonable answer. Their is always two sides, right or wrong

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

Im not sure of the numbers now but Runescape had 1 million subscribers at one point, and if you have ever played it you would know that free to play is kitten compared to their pay to pay. Not to mention how much more popular Runescape is than guild wars 2 on twitch, if that means anything to you.

Regardless of what you think I said is false, you aren’t really providing anything constructive to this discussion and unless you want to actually provide some sort of arguement to the much much larger points I stated afterwards, the exit button is in your top right corner.

chemiclord.3978:

I dunno if I’d say the price is “fine” or that they shouldn’t lower it (why would I want to spend more money if I didn’t have to, after all)…

But at the same time, it’s not like the price tag is completely out of left field without any precedent either. That $40-60 range is pretty much the industry standard, the lowest realistic cover price for this expansion wasn’t going to be much lower than it is.

I think people know it too. The REAL kittening about this is pretty much entirely centered around not getting a new character slot. Entitled brats don’t want to admit the rage is that shallow though.

“The industry standard”
Is entirely made up.

You know there are some entirely free to play MMOs.
Every time I hear “industry standard” I think of EA.

Look, it comes down to a personal decision for any player. Some may find $50 to be fine for what we’ve seen so far, others may not. That’s how consumers function. Better for ArenaNet for customers to explain why they decided not to buy the game, then to quietly move away and find something else to do.

No one is going to convince anyone else, especially with the lack of information we currently have on the full extent of the expansion.

Please leave hot-button words like “entitled” and “spoiled” and “brats” and “white knights” out of the conversation.

Either players will decide it’s worth buying, or they won’t. Either ArenaNet will meet sales projections or they won’t. But there’s no point in heaping derision on people who don’t agree with you.

Jelzouki.4128:

Test.8734:

Jelzouki.4128:

The typical MMO will charge you 15$/month as a subscription fee.

This is 540$ for 3 years which is about the amount of time Guild Wars 2 has been out for.

Ah, the “typical MMO”?

Like The Elder Scrolls Online? Oh wait, that’s B2P!

Maybe like Tera? Oh no, that’s Free to Play.

So like The Old Republic? Dang, no, that’s Free to Play too now.

Then like Wildstar? Wait, what’s that “Free-to-Play” notice I see at their website?

I guess it’s like The Secret World then? Nah, that’s buy to play.

Funny that you begin your post with such a blatantly false statement. I fear it doesn’t get any better after that, either.

Jelzouki.4128:

You are entitled to that decision. I only stated the subscription fee scenario, because some successful MMOs have run off that model. Notably, WoW, Runescape, FFXIV: ARR. If Guild Wars 2 wasn’t B2P, it would have been P2P.

Runescape, the one with the big tag about being the “Free MMORPG”? Oh right, that one.

And for the records, if GW2 wasn’t B2P, it would obviously have been free to play like most of the games I mentioned, and like most MMORPGs today. It lacks everything – scope, quality, polish, etc – to ever be P2P. Meanwhile, it already has most of the small little annoyances of F2P MMORPGs, like a heavy focus on microtransactions, selling gold for real money, log-in rewards, and so on.

Jelzouki.4128:

The entire point of a debate is to come to the most reasonable answer. Their is always two sides, right or wrong

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

Im not sure of the numbers now but Runescape had 1 million subscribers at one point, and if you have ever played it you would know that free to play is kitten compared to their pay to pay. Not to mention how much more popular Runescape is than guild wars 2 on twitch, if that means anything to you.

Regardless of what you think I said is false, you aren’t really providing anything constructive to this discussion and unless you want to actually provide some sort of arguement to the much much larger points I stated afterwards, the exit button is in your top right corner.

His point is that P2P MMOs are no longer typical. The argument some people are making is that $50 for a B2P game isn’t so much when there are tons of sub games. The reality is that there are an increasingly large number of popular B2P or F2P MMOs that charge less for their expansions if they even charge at all. He’s basically making the same argument I did in that comparing it to WoW or the other few remaining P2P games instead of the other B2P and F2P games (that are more similar to GW2 than WoW is) is disingenuous.

EDIT: If you compare the expansion prices of the F2P and B2P games $50 is actually more than what most charge for. I mean TERA is a fairly old game, it still releases new classes, dungeons and general expansions all for free.

In real estate you use the the term “comp” or comparabless. You compare the houses in the area that are similar to yours to find a good price. You don’t look at the most popular, most expensive neighborhood in the city just so you can justify a high price.

Jelzouki.4128:

The typical MMO will charge you 15$/month as a subscription fee.

This is 540$ for 3 years which is about the amount of time Guild Wars 2 has been out for.

The fact that people have the urge to complain about the price is rattling. I can’t believe that people who have been playing this game for 3 years can’t manage to support it further by dishing out 50$ for an x-pac. “bbb-ut it comes with the core game and I had tttt-oo buy the core game separately”. Yeah well wouldn’t it be darned if Arena Net made new players pay 50 dollars for the core game, then charge another 50 dollars for an x-pac. That’s sure to reeeeel in the new comers! Doesn’t that sound like the best business model ever? “Come play our game for 50 dollars, but make sure to drop another 50 for the x-pac you won’t have when you buy it!”

To the people complaining about the amount of content we are getting for the price: you payed for the game once, and received 3 years worth of content, the enjoyable value of that content is subject to ones personal preference, but nonetheless, you will have another 3 years of MORE CONTENT. The only plausible argument I see is that we aren’t receiving an extra character slot and THAT is the ONLY problem I see.

/RANTOVER

Stop with the white knighting over no subscription fees.

GW2 was launched with the model of the gemstore. I recall people buying 12+ infinite gathering tools for their various characters, all the mini pet packs, etc. That’s a lot of money from a lot of people that isn’t bounded by a monthly fee.

ANet CHOSE to not go subscription, and compensated with a highly lucrative microtransaction model. It is not a defense of their money grubbing tactics.

Bottom line is, they over priced their expansion, and a lot of people are calling them on it, with the inevitable few who leap to the defense of poor, poor ANet.

The White Knight idiots are forgeting that nobody is angry about the price if you are new to Guild Wars 2.

The people who already own the game are paying for the game all over again plus HoT.

Anet has clearly had a massive dose of drugs thinking this was a good idea.

Zoul.1087:

“The industry standard”
Is entirely made up.

You know there are some entirely free to play MMOs.
Every time I hear “industry standard” I think of EA.

By “industry standard” I am (obviously) referring to the price of expansions by other MMO makers.

You have Final Fantasy XIV with an upcoming expansion at $40.
World of Warcraft’s latest expansion was $50.
Lord of the Rings online had their expansions priced at $40-$45 upon release, as I remember correctly.

Heart of Thorns is certainly not cheap, but it’s not overly expensive either. I’m not sure what price tag you were expecting, but if it was much lower than what we got, you were deluding yourself, and that’s frankly not Arena.net’s problem.

chemiclord.3978:

I’m not sure what price tag you were expecting, but if it was much lower than what we got, you were deluding yourself, and that’s frankly not Arena.net’s problem.

Unless a significant enough portion of the players were deluding themselves that it means they don’t meet sales projections. Then it is their problem.

Not saying that will happen, just pointing out that it all comes down to the bottom line, whether the price is “fair” or not.

Gibson.4036:

Unless a significant enough portion of the players were deluding themselves that it means they don’t meet sales projections. Then it is their problem.

Not saying that will happen, just pointing out that it all comes down to the bottom line, whether the price is “fair” or not.

That’s an entirely different argument though, and that’s something that will only suss itself out once the numbers show up in Arena.net’s ledgers. But there was ZERO chance that this expansion was going to cost anything less than $40 out of the gate at the very best. If you were expecting differently, that’s YOUR problem, not Arena.net’s.

chemiclord.3978:

Zoul.1087:

“The industry standard”
Is entirely made up.

You know there are some entirely free to play MMOs.
Every time I hear “industry standard” I think of EA.

By “industry standard” I am (obviously) referring to the price of expansions by other MMO makers.

You have Final Fantasy XIV with an upcoming expansion at $40.
World of Warcraft’s latest expansion was $50.
Lord of the Rings online had their expansions priced at $40-$45 upon release, as I remember correctly.

Heart of Thorns is certainly not cheap, but it’s not overly expensive either. I’m not sure what price tag you were expecting, but if it was much lower than what we got, you were deluding yourself, and that’s frankly not Arena.net’s problem.

Take a second and look at the content/features of the “comparable” MMO expansions. Without listing anything else, Warlords of Draenor includes eight new dungeons and two raids.

Would you honestly say that what we’ve seen so far for HoT is anywhere near that? I can’t, and I would assume that anyone OBJECTIVELY looking at HoT would really squint their eyes at kitten price tag.

The problem with your B2P vs. P2P argument is you’re ignoring the cash shop completely.

The cash shop is what replaces the monthly revenue of the subscription model, while it may be optional the fact (supported by NCSoft’s financial reports, which you can download off their site) is people do spend real money on it regularly. Your argument only applies to people who haven’t spent any money on GW2 beyond the initial purchase or spend less than $10/month on gem purchases.

If you fit that criteria then that’s wonderful, you’re getting a great deal. So are new players who didn’t buy GW2 during the 75% sales that everyone assumed was to make it easier for new players to join in and get the expansion.

That’s not true for everyone.

Can you see why not everyone is happy with the price now?

Kaleban.9834:

chemiclord.3978:

Zoul.1087:

“The industry standard”
Is entirely made up.

You know there are some entirely free to play MMOs.
Every time I hear “industry standard” I think of EA.

By “industry standard” I am (obviously) referring to the price of expansions by other MMO makers.

You have Final Fantasy XIV with an upcoming expansion at $40.
World of Warcraft’s latest expansion was $50.
Lord of the Rings online had their expansions priced at $40-$45 upon release, as I remember correctly.

Heart of Thorns is certainly not cheap, but it’s not overly expensive either. I’m not sure what price tag you were expecting, but if it was much lower than what we got, you were deluding yourself, and that’s frankly not Arena.net’s problem.

Take a second and look at the content/features of the “comparable” MMO expansions. Without listing anything else, Warlords of Draenor includes eight new dungeons and two raids.

Would you honestly say that what we’ve seen so far for HoT is anywhere near that? I can’t, and I would assume that anyone OBJECTIVELY looking at HoT would really squint their eyes at kitten price tag.

Objectivity is irrelevant here.

Value is subjective.

I would not play WoW if Blizzard paid me the $50. Other games, with a fraction of the content, I have paid thousands of dollars to play.

Kaleban.9834:

Take a second and look at the content/features of the “comparable” MMO expansions. Without listing anything else, Warlords of Draenor includes eight new dungeons and two raids.

Would you honestly say that what we’ve seen so far for HoT is anywhere near that? I can’t, and I would assume that anyone OBJECTIVELY looking at HoT would really squint their eyes at kitten price tag.

As I have pretty much gone out of my way to AVOID the hype train and have no intention whatsoever to pre-purchase as a matter of general principle, I’m not the guy to be asking that question, honestly. I really don’t CARE about a comparison of X and Y. I really don’t CARE what you think has “more.”

Hell, if you listen to WoW’s forums, you’d think Warlords of Draenor has killed the game for good.

What I will tell you is that regardless of what you think the finished product holds, you weren’t going to see a cover price much lower than what we got. Whether that’s a good or “fair” price is pretty much irrelevant.

no there is no typical mmo anymore most of them 95% are free whit micro transaction if u think on wow then yes but hell even wow is going to toilet and keep losing massive sub numbers. The era of subs is gone and free to play AAA games are coming more and more , meanwhile gw has gem store they like more people to access it but they giving them price for that , and that price is to high

Pandaman.4758:

The problem with your B2P vs. P2P argument is you’re ignoring the cash shop completely.

The cash shop is what replaces the monthly revenue of the subscription model, while it may be optional the fact (supported by NCSoft’s financial reports, which you can download off their site) is people do spend real money on it regularly. Your argument only applies to people who haven’t spent any money on GW2 beyond the initial purchase or spend less than $10/month on gem purchases.

If you fit that criteria then that’s wonderful, you’re getting a great deal. So are new players who didn’t buy GW2 during the 75% sales that everyone assumed was to make it easier for new players to join in and get the expansion.

That’s not true for everyone.

Can you see why not everyone is happy with the price now?

So Arena Net can’t price their expansion at 50$ because a portion of their players are financially irresponsible?

Tbh, pre purchase price is fine, but that doesn’t mean that i’m gonna buy it.
1st of all there are gonna be a generous amount of new games/xpacs on the market (can’t wait till BD myself), giving no release date yet doesn’t give me any certainty that this game will be released within 6 months time ish.
2nd the amount of content released is very minimal and most of this content is even non exclusive for Xpac holders. (maybe they didn’t announce it yet, but haven’t seen any reasons why the Xpac should be bigger then currently estimated)
3rd the lack of respect they treat their veterans with is just kinda sad. Giving away free base games away to new players and refusing to give just a single kittening char slot to vets disgusts me.

Don’t get me wrong, i’d love to buy the game if they would give us some information and content instead of hypes about upcoming hypes with lack of dates.

Jelzouki.4128:

The typical MMO will charge you 15$/month as a subscription fee.

This is 540$ for 3 years which is about the amount of time Guild Wars 2 has been out for.

Untrue.

Yes, with GW2 I can take a vacation whenever I want without still paying a subscription but I highly doubt most people have never bought gems. While the exact amount varies I easily pay more than $15 a month.

Worth noting that, while GW1 expansions didn’t give 5 free slots to older players, I remember getting at least some free slots to compensate. Additionally, Factions was standalone, and I had to buy the original game to gain access to many maps and skills (which of course may not translate well to their current MMO model.) It would be nice for them to offer at least 1-2 free slots to older players, to account for the newly added Profession (50+10 does feel unfair.)

All for supporting the game, but I can understand the ruffled feathers, even if I also don’t fully agree with either extreme.

Jelzouki.4128:

Pandaman.4758:

The problem with your B2P vs. P2P argument is you’re ignoring the cash shop completely.

The cash shop is what replaces the monthly revenue of the subscription model, while it may be optional the fact (supported by NCSoft’s financial reports, which you can download off their site) is people do spend real money on it regularly. Your argument only applies to people who haven’t spent any money on GW2 beyond the initial purchase or spend less than $10/month on gem purchases.

If you fit that criteria then that’s wonderful, you’re getting a great deal. So are new players who didn’t buy GW2 during the 75% sales that everyone assumed was to make it easier for new players to join in and get the expansion.

That’s not true for everyone.

Can you see why not everyone is happy with the price now?

So Arena Net can’t price their expansion at 50$ because a portion of their players are financially irresponsible?

That’s certainly a… novel way of interpreting it.

GW2 has a revenue stream from these financially irresponsible people (of whom you are a beneficiary of, without them you wouldn’t have a GW2 to play, much less get an expansion for), just like a sub-based MMO has a revenue stream from subscribers paying the monthly ransom for their characters.

If GW2 was struggling to make money then I can see them charging a premium on the expansion, but it’s not, so why is it charging a premium?

The marketing team lead said that the 50$ with core-game is to make it easier for new players to transition into. Just as I outlined.

PSA: someone messaged me in-game calling me names and stuff and the person didn’t even comment on anything I posted so I want to say I hope I am not offending anyone, even though I don’t really know where I could have. Probably don’t need to apologize.

Jelzouki.4128:

The marketing team lead said that the 50$ with core-game is to make it easier for new players to transition into. Just as I outlined.

PSA: someone messaged me in-game calling me names and stuff and the person didn’t even comment on anything I posted so I want to say I hope I am not offending anyone, even though I don’t really know where I could have. Probably don’t need to apologize.

It’s the internet, you can bake a cake and someone will be offended at you.

Price might be fine. What you get for it, is not.
This is a price for a full game, not a relatively small expansion.

I gladly gave them my hundo. Character slot and 4000 gems? That’s like 6 more character slots! Wait…

Pandaman.4758:

Jelzouki.4128:

The marketing team lead said that the 50$ with core-game is to make it easier for new players to transition into. Just as I outlined.

PSA: someone messaged me in-game calling me names and stuff and the person didn’t even comment on anything I posted so I want to say I hope I am not offending anyone, even though I don’t really know where I could have. Probably don’t need to apologize.

It’s the internet, you can bake a cake and someone will be offended at you.

Oh I see you used WHITE icing. Racist.

Seriously though, I think, the issue is that what has been revealed to most doesn’t make 50 dollars for the expansion look like a good deal. You may say ’You’ve gotten thousands of hours for free, don’t be selfish’ but people aren’t paying 50 dollars, or 45 Euros for the time they spent before. Even those who’ve never never spent a dime on this game beyond buying it have probably spent gold on gems to buy char slots/whatever else they need from those who’ve spent actual money on it, which is still a ‘service’ of a sort for those who’d rather spend money than grind gold, therefor keeping ‘whales’ in the game dropping cash. If you think chasing off these players is good for this game, you’re sadly mistaken. (This is addressed at the general population of people calling others entitled, not any one person)

As for me, I plan to wait a bit, see what else is revealed. If it doesn’t appear to be worth it, I simply won’t buy it. It really is that simple. I understand people venting here, but that is the one thing that they will really notice. Numbers coming up short of projections. For the record I hope they do in fact show that the expansion is larger than I’m expecting, I like the game and wouldn’t mind personally sinking in 50-100 dollars if the expansion is something I feel I can sink my teeth into.

I honestly enjoy reading all these comments, it’s amazing to see every single argument of the OP being proven wrong. You go gw2 community! Keep it coming pleaseeee!

Dirven.3021:

I honestly enjoy reading all these comments, it’s amazing to see every single argument of the OP being proven wrong. You go gw2 community! Keep it coming pleaseeee!

I’ve pretty much rebuttled against everyone and backed up my claims, so you should go back and read lol.

Halfway through I stop commenting because its the same people who are too lazy to read a one page thread so they keep coming up with the same arguments, there’s no reason to type an answer out twice.

My opinion:

1. I’ll have to delete a character for €45.
2. I have no idea what i’m buying, maybe i’m paying for a new karka island for €45.
3. New players get more for the same money. The people that kept the game alive and participated in creating the GW2 community get less. Thank you Anet.
4. I’m not sure i can thrust these “The price is fine” posts. I’m pretty sure that most of these posts are made by arenanet themselfs. Why wouldn’t they? Seems logical. They’ll deny it though, duh.