Guild Wars 2

So I just finished my first precursor crafting collection for the precursor The Legend and finally got my recipe to craft the first tier precursor and found, to my dismay, that the recipe is way too overpriced. So what is required for the FIRST tier alone?

-35 Spiritwood Planks @ ~8g each (280g)
-10 Elonian Leather Square @ ~8g each (80g)
-200 Memories of Battle @ ~17.7s each (27.5g)
-200 Shards of Glory @ ~20.5s each (45g)

For a grand total of about 430g! For the first tier! Meanwhile The precursor itself costs about 1100g, so you’re paying the equivalent of 40% of the precursor’s price for one out of 3 tiers, plus anything else needed for the collections themselves.

You are much better off and can save both time and money by buying it right off the trading post. And even if you slowly build up these mats over time by doing pvp and wvw, why use them to build your precursor when you’ll get more out of them AND get your precursor faster by selling them to the trading post.

Precursor crafting is for people how want to do the quest for the experience or for people who don’t understand opportunity costs and can’t associate saving gold with getting closer to buying one off the tp.

Basically it’s changed nothing in regards to if you were able to craft a legendary before.

Yes, I get that it should be roughly the same price, but this may be too extreme. If this is the price for the first tier alone, then I would honestly not want to do it. And if we go back to the livestream where they talked about precursor crafting in depth, they said that most of the time and money would be in the second collection, which gives the feeling that the price for just the first tier is less than 33% of the total cost of making a precursor.

EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION: I’m not saying it should cost nothing, just less than what it is, for example less shards of glory and memories of battle, and perhaps less Spiritwood too (100, 100, and 20 may be a better balance).

Yes, they are overpriced. Nobody can rationally claim otherwise. They need to change this soon, but they might not because they have that troll streak going. “Oh, you want cheaper precursors? Trololololol.”

You’d pay a lot less if you bought the components to make the ascended materials instead of paying the highest amount possible to progress. And there’s no reason to think people putting in the actual effort to generate the PvP items are doing it so you can have a cheap precursor.

Seriously, if you’re gonna just buy your way to completion instead of putting in the slightest amount of personal effort… suffer the consequences.

MoB and SoG cost more right now than they will in the future, because there’s new and there’s high demand for them. Dun worry about them.

The ascended mats are somewhat ridiculous though… do you even get an ascended item for the first tier?

Seriously, if you’re gonna just buy your way to completion instead of putting in the slightest amount of personal effort… suffer the consequences.

The point is, “things you can spend money on” should not be a significant portion of the process at all. Any actual “crafting” elements should be more token gestures. The “base” staff should not have a higher material cost than, say, an Ascended staff, 6 Spiritwood planks instead of 35+1-0 Leather. Ideally it wouldn’t even take that, it would just be an exotic weapon using exotic mats.

The “costs” of producing it should be entirely in the unique challenges you undertake for the collection, and items that you earn specifically from those adventures. To craft a sword Precursor, you should not need to use enough base metal to craft an Iron Throne’s worth of swords. To make a Precursor staff, you should not need enough wood planks to build an entire pirate ship. The base mats should be about the same as any other weapon in the game, all that would be different is the need for various unique items, which could not be purchased or collected in bulk, you would just get ONE of these by completing ONE activity, and this is what elevates the item to Precursor status.

Now, you can argue that a player should collect his own Shards of Glory and Memories of Battle, but these items should not even have a market value. Even if you are making your own and not buying them, you are passing up that amount of gold by not selling the ones you have.

Gold cost should not be a factor in this process at all. Your options should be either:

A. Spend money to buy the thing off the TOP, already completed.

OR

B. Do the Mastery collection chains and receive the item for completing tasks, with practically zero coin or fungible assets spent in doing so.

The current method is neither of these things.

of course gold cost should be a factor.

since legendaries ARE available on the TP gold equivalency is always going to be A Thing

if its cheap as balls to make a precursor doing the collection then it literally devalues the precursor.

You people have mistaken precursor crafting.

It’s not meant to be easier,cheaper and faster way. It’s a non rng way of gettingit.

Here’s what I really want to know. If the old precursors have a bunch of gold tied to their creation as to not damage the market, i’m curious how much the new ones will be or if it will be a different system. Since you can’t buy the new ones the market won’t be affected. Maybe we can get away with just doing a bunch of fun events to build it. I really hope that’s the case.

It’s not meant to be easier,cheaper and faster way. It’s a non rng way of gettingit.

Easier and faster are irrelevant, but it should definitely be cheaper. If it’s not “meant to be” that, then it was not “meant to be” what it needed to be.

Shoe.5821:

MoB and SoG cost more right now than they will in the future, because there’s new and there’s high demand for them. Dun worry about them.

The ascended mats are somewhat ridiculous though… do you even get an ascended item for the first tier?

Nope, the first tier is exotic quality.

Ohoni.6057:

The point is, “things you can spend money on” should not be a significant portion of the process at all. Any actual “crafting” elements should be more token gestures. The “base” staff should not have a higher material cost than, say, an Ascended staff, 6 Spiritwood planks instead of 35+1-0 Leather. Ideally it wouldn’t even take that, it would just be an exotic weapon using exotic mats.

The “costs” of producing it should be entirely in the unique challenges you undertake for the collection, and items that you earn specifically from those adventures. To craft a sword Precursor, you should not need to use enough base metal to craft an Iron Throne’s worth of swords. To make a Precursor staff, you should not need enough wood planks to build an entire pirate ship. The base mats should be about the same as any other weapon in the game, all that would be different is the need for various unique items, which could not be purchased or collected in bulk, you would just get ONE of these by completing ONE activity, and this is what elevates the item to Precursor status.

Exactly this, if they made the third tier this recipe it would have been ok, that would be finishing up your pre, but this absurd number of timegated mats for just the first tier? When the second tier collection is the one supposed to maintain the precursor’s price? Now that’s not ok.

warbignime.4610:

You people have mistaken precursor crafting.

It’s not meant to be easier,cheaper and faster way. It’s a non rng way of gettingit.

But it shouldn’t be a harder, more costly, and slower way either. Otherwise why go for it this way?

Ohoni.6057:

It’s not meant to be easier,cheaper and faster way. It’s a non rng way of gettingit.

Easier and faster are irrelevant, but it should definitely be cheaper. If it’s not “meant to be” that, then it was not “meant to be” what it needed to be.

Cheaper is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if it’s cheaper. The precursor collection is just meant to be a sure way to get the precursor. It doesn’t mean to compete with the market. In fact all of the items on that list you can obtain yourself. It costs less than 10g gold to make them. And whether it would have cost 450g on the market had you bought the mats is irrelevant.

Alone.1784:

Precursor crafting is for people how want to do the quest for the experience or for people who don’t understand opportunity costs and can’t associate saving gold with getting closer to buying one off the tp.

Basically it’s changed nothing in regards to if you were able to craft a legendary before.

If you are worry or concern about opportunity cost, then doing anything in game is comparatively worse. You are better off from now on simply converting $$ to gems to gold.

if you spent less then 1K you got it cheap.

Precursor crafting wasn’t invented so people could get them easier or cheaper. It’s just an alternative to gambling or being very lucky.

Price doesn’t matter if your crafting it vs. buying it because if it did, you would just buy it in the first place.

Cheaper is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if it’s cheaper.

To you, perhaps, but it matters a great deal to a great many people, I would be confident in saying this matters to the majority of players that were asking for Precursor crafting in the first place. The entire point was to NOT have to grind for gold.

It costs less than 10g gold to make them. And whether it would have cost 450g on the market had you bought the mats is irrelevant.

Not true. If you can make those mats for 10g, and sell them for 450g, then you’re still out 440g in potential earnings, that is not nothing. Materials you harvest/craft yourself are not “free” if it’s possible to resell them. Aside from some token materials, like just enough metal and wood to justify the crafting of a sword, ALL materials involved in the Precursor should be account-bound rewards for specific single tasks. There should be no way to buy them, and no way to sell them if you acquire them yourself.

Precursor crafting wasn’t invented so people could get them easier or cheaper. It’s just an alternative to gambling or being very lucky.

Then they failed at the design stage, because it should have at least been cheaper than the existing market prices.

Price doesn’t matter if your crafting it vs. buying it because if it did, you would just buy it in the first place.

The point of crafting it should be in doing more work so that you pay less.

While I expected a certain investment to go into crafting a precursor, I did not expect this to be roughly the same price as a precursor has on the TP. I though the entire point of precursor crafting was to provide a way to obtain a precursor without having to invest heavily into the TP or Toilet RNG. I imagine it is a rather difficult balance but I thought the choice would be more like: obtain a precursor instantly of the TP with a lot of cash or obtain a precursor over a longer period of time without a lot of cash.

Ohoni.6057:

Then they failed at the design stage, because it should have at least been cheaper than the existing market prices.

Wrong. Price of ascended materials is based on market situation. If it will be much cheaper then existing precursor prices, everybody will do precursor this way and price will go much higher then existing precursor prices. Even worse. If they reduce material count needed, they will dramatically impact price of ascended armor/weapons (already happen). Its legendary item, dont rush, craft everyday and its pretty much for free

Wrong. Price of ascended materials is based on market situation. If it will be much cheaper then existing precursor prices, everybody will do precursor this way and price will go much higher then existing precursor prices.

That’s fine, if the prices on the TP get too high, it doesn’t matter because players would always have the option to craft their own without spending a copper.

Its legendary item, dont rush, craft everyday and its pretty much for free

It’s been three years already. Any “just take your time and enjoy the ride” arguments have long since expired.

It has more to do with not understanding how markets work than it being overpriced.

kanarek.8025:

Ohoni.6057:

Then they failed at the design stage, because it should have at least been cheaper than the existing market prices.

Wrong. Price of ascended materials is based on market situation. If it will be much cheaper then existing precursor prices, everybody will do precursor this way and price will go much higher then existing precursor prices. Even worse. If they reduce material count needed, they will dramatically impact price of ascended armor/weapons (already happen). Its legendary item, dont rush, craft everyday and its pretty much for free

It’s an exotic. It’s 1/4th of the legendary. It was the hardest part of the legendary because of ridiculous RNG/cost, not because it took any effort.

It has more to do with not understanding how markets work than it being overpriced.

Well, they should understand how their own markets work, or at lest fake it better. The end result, however, is that they’re overpriced, and they should act to correct that, and in the short term, at least let us know that they’re working on a fix so that people don’t waste their money.

Ohoni.6057:

Easier and faster are irrelevant, but it should definitely be cheaper. If it’s not “meant to be” that, then it was not “meant to be” what it needed to be.

I’m afraid that doesn’t make any sense.

The value of precursors on the TP will adjust according to the cost of crafting them. Do you think a precursor will still cost the same on the TP if players are able to craft them for hundreds of gold cheaper? Obviously not. The demand for precursors on the TP will plummet, so people will start listing them for cheaper in order to sell them. Soon enough, the price of the precursor on the TP will be in line with the price to craft one and we’ll be at square one again. There will be a small mark-up for the convenience factor of purchasing one outright, but nothing overly inflated – i.e. it won’t be much cheaper to craft one.

It sounds like you’re merely unhappy with the price of precursors in general, which is a whole other argument altogether. To be honest, I think you’re a bit late to the party with that complaint, considering people have been crafting legendaries for years and have come to accept the price involved. Who decides what the price should actually be? If everyone was running around with one they’d lose their value and wouldn’t be very legendary at all.

They do and that’s how it works. They never said precursors will be easy/fast or cheap to make.

I don’t feel the precursor crafting should cost more than just grinding the gold and buying one.

Time and coin are a factor in either route, so they should be approximately the same in overall coin, given that farming coin is (theoretically) faster than working through the gated collections. However, having both the time sink and a greater cost to craft the pre is a bit absurd. People will just opt to farm the gold.

Honestly, price never even occurred to me when I first heard of precursor crafting. If the recipe is 30 spirit planks, then I’m going to go harvest the raw materials and make spirit planks. At no point did I even consider buying planks on the TP.

And that is the point. If you want it now and cheaper, just grind gold and buy it. Otherwise, enjoy the adventure of crafting it from scratch.

Ohoni.6057:

The point of crafting it should be in doing more work so that you pay less.

That’s not true. The point of being able to craft a precursor is to give another option to get one that people can gauge their progress against; that’s missing in the previous ways. NO ONE EVER said it would cost less to get one this way over any other way. In fact, anyone that thinks this way shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how the game works; there is no fixed cost to precursors in the first place.

The best part of all this is that me and others can revel in saying “We told you so” because we all knew there would be no way for Anet to regulate the crafting process to a set of items based on a fluctuating price … it’s common sense.

Perhaps if you aligned your expectations to what is realistic vs. what you think in your head should happen, you would have much less issue with how the game doesn’t work the way you want it.

Prices are set by players – of course it’s overpriced. Players are the Personification of Greed.

Shoe.5821:

of course gold cost should be a factor.

since legendaries ARE available on the TP gold equivalency is always going to be A Thing

if its cheap as balls to make a precursor doing the collection then it literally devalues the precursor.

Precursors built via the mastery method cannot be sold, they are bound. Legendaries made after HoT went live are bound upon making them. So only precursors you find, and Legendaries made prior to HoT can be sold on TP.
There was a post about this leading up to release…anyone have it handy?

The value of precursors on the TP will adjust according to the cost of crafting them. Do you think a precursor will still cost the same on the TP if players are able to craft them for hundreds of gold cheaper?

I’m saying it DOES NOT MATTER IN THE SLIGHTEST what the price on the TP does. The Players do not serve the TP, the TP is meant to serve the players. It is not there to “be there,” it is there to make it easier for players to get items that they do not have, and to offload items that they do not need.

If there is anything that the players would want, and you begin with “because the TP would. . .” then you’ve already failed to make a compelling response.

In this case, the goal is to make a better way for player to get a Precursor, without having to grind gold to do it. “because the TP” does not matter, the TP will have to learn to adapt.

Soon enough, the price of the precursor on the TP will be in line with the price to craft one and we’ll be at square one again.

That’s fine. The goal is not to have the price of the quests to be permanently below the price on the TP, whatever that price may be, the goal is to have the price of the quest be the RIGHT price, the price it should be, whatever that is, and whatever the TP price happens to be. That price should be negligible. Your argument strikes me a bit like that classic counterargument to smoking taxes, “well if you overtax cigarettes then people will just stop smoking!” Well. . . good.

It sounds like you’re merely unhappy with the price of precursors in general, which is a whole other argument altogether.

No, that’s the core of the entire argument. If people were happy with the existing Precursor prices then there would be no need for the crafting quests in the first place. The ENTIRE point is to drive the prices back down to a reasonable level.

If everyone was running around with one they’d lose their value and wouldn’t be very legendary at all.

No, their value is innate, it is in how they look on your character. It wouldn’t matter whether only one person had it or whether everyone had one, they would still be cool.

That’s not true. The point of being able to craft a precursor is to give another option to get one that people can gauge their progress against; that’s missing in the previous ways. NO ONE EVER said it would cost less to get one this way over any other way. In fact, anyone that thinks this way shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how the game works; there is no fixed cost to precursors in the first place.

But we already HAD an “option to get one that people can gauge their progress against;” it’s called “the wallet.” You look over there, “do I have enough gold to buy one on the TP? No? Keep farming.” Now, they’ve changed it to “have I completed all the listed quests? Yes. do I have enough gold make it? No? Keep farming.”

Huge improvement.

Any time you want your bling ASAP, you pay a premium. If you were content (as many of us are), to slowly build towards your legendary, you would be spending much less. (And that takes into account your own time and the value of the mats you use, rather than sell.)

The total costs of precursor crafting should be far less then instant buying it off of the TP. It is account bound and it is trophy, event and time gated.

Besides, even if it brings down the price of precursors, it is a good thing. They have reduced gold income.

Did you honestly think they’d remove one of the most important massive goldsinks that drive their customers to buy gems to trade for gold with real life money?

Keep dreaming.

I bought my Howl for 300g, dirt cheap compared to the ridiculous price I’d be paying for crafting it via collection.

One more of the broken promises, the whole precursor hunt was about playing the game not farming mats.

Turns out it’s not even worth it, the time you spend doing the collection is time you could farm gold and it would be even more efficient.

Look at the price of Dusk, it has barely budged, because people realized the precursor hunt did little.

Complaining about precursor prices when the market hasn’t even stabilized yet.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

If you were content (as many of us are), to slowly build towards your legendary, you would be spending much less.

The total cost is the same, just because you spend mats and not gold doesn’t mean the value is less.

You COULD always get the materials yourself. That’s what the map rewards are for. Sure it takes time, but you can get materials while doing other stuff. Like playing the game.

Honestly though, some materials are overpriced compared to the effort required to obtain them. And obtaining those yourself instead of grinding the gold for it is both faster and cheaper.

Ohoni.6057:

That’s fine. The goal is not to have the price of the quests to be permanently below the price on the TP, whatever that price may be, the goal is to have the price of the quest be the RIGHT price, the price it should be, whatever that is, and whatever the TP price happens to be. That price should be negligible. Your argument strikes me a bit like that classic counterargument to smoking taxes, “well if you overtax cigarettes then people will just stop smoking!” Well. . . good.

And that, right there, is the problem with your argument. Precursors are already at what ArenaNet considers to be the “RIGHT price.”

Do you honestly believe they had to spend valuable development time building the process of crafting precursors just to reduce their price and obtainability? Obviously not. If that was their intention, all they had to do was increase the “drop” rate of precursors and their price would have fallen accordingly due to simple supply and demand. It’s therefore pretty clear that the process of crafting precursors was never meant to massively reduce their price, but rather to offer a different means of obtaining them.

You’re saying that the “right” price of precursors should be determined by the cost to craft them. What you don’t seem to grasp is that the price is already governed by a long-established, existing method: the drop rate!

I would also like to point out that if you make the precursor crafting cheaper than the going rate on the tp, then the going rate on the tp will drop accordingly.

And that, right there, is the problem with your argument. Precursors are already at what ArenaNet considers to be the “RIGHT price.”

Then the price that they think is the right price is the wrong price, and needs to change. This is hardly the first time, look at the Elite Spec Hero Point costs. They guessed wrong and need to correct.

Do you honestly believe they had to spend valuable development time building the process of crafting precursors just to reduce their price and obtainability? Obviously not.

Obviously, but that was still the goal (of the players, if not of ANet). To reduce the effective costs in a way that was not so “cheap” as just greatly increasing their drop rate or something.

Ohoni.6057:

Then the price that they think is the right price is the wrong price, and needs to change. This is hardly the first time, look at the Elite Spec Hero Point costs. They guessed wrong and need to correct.

Hero Point costs were changed within a few days of the release of Heart of Thorns. Precursors, on the other hand, have been in the game for years.

As I said in a previous post: people have been crafting legendaries for ages now. If the price of precursors is as ridiculous as you’ve made them out to be, wouldn’t they have been changed due to a massive outcry long ago?

This is simply a case of people unrealistically assuming that crafting would reduce the price of precursors, without taking economics into account at all.

As I said in a previous post: people have been crafting legendaries for ages now. If the price of precursors is as ridiculous as you’ve made them out to be, wouldn’t they have been changed due to a massive outcry long ago?

Well, they promised a solution, Precursor crafting, years ago, and it’s just been a slow boil as people waited for that system. As more people realize the costs involved, I’m sure the call will grow. It’s much different than a system that’s obviously a certain way from the moment you boot up. Casual players won’t even notice the crafting costs involved until they A: grind out the first tier mastery line, and B. complete all the first tier objectives.

Ohoni.6057:

No, that’s the core of the entire argument. If people were happy with the existing Precursor prices then there would be no need for the crafting quests in the first place. The ENTIRE point is to drive the prices back down to a reasonable level.

No, it wasn’t. The point of the quest is to give a way to work towards the precursor over time without having to rely on RNG. It’s not designed to make it easier, cheaper, or more attainable to casuals who want hand outs at the expense of everybody elses goals.

A.net did the right thing.

No, it wasn’t. The point of the quest is to give a way to work towards the precursor over time without having to rely on RNG.

There already was that, it was called “gold farming.” This new method is just that same “gold farming” method, PLUS on top of that you have to do a whole bunch of other quests. It should have been one or the other, not both.

Ohoni.6057:

No, that’s the core of the entire argument. If people were happy with the existing Precursor prices then there would be no need for the crafting quests in the first place. The ENTIRE point is to drive the prices back down to a reasonable level.

Not even close, though players sometimes like to think that.

The ‘point’ was to create a reliable means of acquisition that does not require you to throw yourself at the feet of the TP or the mystic forge.

The TP is economic pvp. Thinking it likes you or is your friend is sheer foolishness. Its hostile territory. The materials required to work the collection are numerous, but they’re also steadily acquirable through play. If you objected to giving money to someone holding a precursor, they why should you be more willing to throw money at someone holding a bunch of ascended materials?

MAKE. THEM. YOURSELF.

That is what the collections offer. Not cheaper. Sure as hell not faster. Evaluating it in terms of coin instead of personal accomplishment is what gets most people into trouble in the first place!

Anet addressed the RNG “problem” which is kind of solved by TP by introducing these crafting quests.

Gold value of a legendary is supposingly already concluded by the gifts requirement in order to craft one such as gift of fortune. However, there exist the TP and there are precursors listed on it and this ties Anet’s hands from introducing a precursor crafting that does not include gold or massive amount of matt sink.

Kinda sad.

The ‘point’ was to create a reliable means of acquisition that does not require you to throw yourself at the feet of the TP or the mystic forge.

The TP is economic pvp. Thinking it likes you or is your friend is sheer foolishness. Its hostile territory. The materials required to work the collection are numerous, but they’re also steadily acquirable through play. If you objected to giving money to someone holding a precursor, they why should you be more willing to throw money at someone holding a bunch of ascended materials?

And yet, the TP is still far and away the most effective way of doing it. It’s like saying that you don’t have to PvP to earn Glorious armor, but the alternative would be to grind PvE content for several years. It’s an alternative, that does not make it a REASONABLE alternative. It should be a reasonable alternative, one that does not involve money OR fungible currencies.

However, there exist the TP and there are precursors listed on it and this ties Anet’s hands from introducing a precursor crafting that does not include gold or massive amount of matt sink.

It does not in the slightest. ANet is not beholden to maintaining the price of Precursors on the TP, they can, and SHOULD change that at any time.

Ohoni.6057:

And yet, the TP is still far and away the most effective way of doing it.

Point ENTIRELY missed. If you just want to buy it you’ve ALWAYS had the option to do so. They are not unhappy with the prices of precursors. Universal player satisfaction is NOT one of ANet’s goals. Collections being cheaper than buying one is also not a goal.

They didn’t add collections so you could buy a precursor. They added them so there was a non-RNG way of introducing them into the system.

collection precursors can be sold :x