Since a few months prices for precursors for vanilla legendaries have dropped, causing them to be more expensive to craft than to buy from trading post. This is because most people that want their legendary, already have it and so there isn’t enough demand for the precursors. It would be nice, if people actually had a reason to craft them, instead of buying them, as this content otherwise will not be used.
two ideas of how to stabilize the prices:
- increase demand: use precursors of vanilla weapons in recipes of future HoT-legendaries, if there is a new greatsword legendary, for example it could use dawn in the recipe.
- bind precursor prices to prices of ascended crafting materials: make a new vendor/item, that exchanges precursors for ascended crafting materials (deldrimor steel ingots, spiritwood planks..), make it a little random (so sometimes you may get more crafting materials back then what it cost you from crafting) and adapt it so you get on average the same amouth of crafting materials back as when you craft it. This would stabilize the price on the low end.
I personally bought Dawn from the TP, because I noticed crafting it was only 10g cheaper. That isn’t worth all the hassle of getting geodes/bandit crests and everything. Dusk and Zap were both worth crafting, as their price was, and still is much cheaper.
What I think should change however, are the bow/rifle and some other pres. The 2 bow pres are so expensive to craft that you can get 2, almost 3, straight from the TP. A 600g difference between buying and crafting is pretty stupid.
Yeah I only do Ascended since I can craft them for a fraction of the cost. I can even make them for various builds (Berserker, Condi, etc) and just carry them with me and still save a lot of gold and time.
Then I skin with the skin I like, the Legendary’s don’t really interest me since the cost is so high and the precursor drops are non-existent for me after almost 5 years of playing.
For those that want them I say awesome get what you want but when the stats are the same I go for the “cost savings” lol….
Since a few months prices for precursors for vanilla legendaries have dropped, causing them to be more expensive to craft than to buy from trading post.
That was actually true of most legendaries from the very beginning. Only for few of them using the crafting route was better.
The real reason is that Anet doesn’t really care if people are using the craft way – what they wanted was to guarantee that precursors remain as big a material and gold sink as possible.
What’s more, it is a system that has been already abandoned. It turned out to be too much of a design and implementation hassle for Anet to keep sticking to it. And Anet is not known to work on abandoned systems.
Thus, i don’t see any changes happening to it in the future.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I agree that it would be good if I wouldn’t care about the price of precursors and just crafting them anyway, but if buying from trading post is about half the price compared to crafting, then I cannot bring myself to craft it, it is against my inner “kitten economicus” and I fear I am not alone in this. And I think it is sad that this content in the game is “shut down” by the price of precursors on tp, because it is fun doing it. That’s why I think arenanet should make some changes to stabilize the price long-term.
@Lite Ning Strike: it is true that legendaries are just a skin and ascended is really good enough. But another factor is, that if you actually were to be so lucky to drop a precursor right now, the price wouldn’t show how extremely lucky you were by dropping it. And this problem will increase, precursor prices will just drop further. And if you don’t want to craft it, the only thing you can do is make it to money right now. So I think it would be nice to be able to “trade” it for ascended crafting materials instead.
@Astralporing you may be right, but it is worth a try. Implementing them in future recipies for example would help, while still being a part of new systems they will continue to support (we will surely see new legendaries in the future).
Completely disagree with the notion of using existing pres for new legendaries.
In addition I think pre crafting needs to be normalized. They should axe the number of unique precursor crafting components those one time items for a specific pre. Instead focusing on across the board mats. We don’t need four different weapon skins that lead up to the legendary. No one is ever going to use those skins and their salvaged anyway for the next tier.
1 precursor skin, fewer one time crafting components, and more across the board mats like how all legendaries need certain gifts and other gifts such as metal, wood, and energy are used in multiple.
To late for all of that now though
Current pres will drop farther as time goes on the issue is we don’t have a set of new legendaries. No PVE/WVW legendary backpack or armor either so people will have stockpiles of mats. If HoT delivered on legendary weapon and armor sets then mats would have more value than they do now do to increased demand.
Current pres will drop farther as time goes on the issue is we don’t have a set of new legendaries. No PVE/WVW legendary backpack or armor either so people will have stockpiles of mats. If HoT delivered on legendary weapon and armor sets then mats would have more value than they do now do to increased demand.
Yea, because the pre prices continue to drop it would be nice to have systems in place, that stabilize them. What does it matter, if it is an old pre in the recipe or 200 lodestones?
Mat prices aren’t dropping as fast, if they were, then crafting a pre would be cheaper than buying them on tp. Mat prices are still relatively high, but I agree that new legendary stuff does help, and I am hoping to see more weapon skins and armor in the future. It’s a different topic though.
I think its fine. It gives players a guaranteed way to get their precursors without RNG and without being forced to buy it from the TP. It doesn’t have to have a competitive price with buying the precursors. And I don’t see any reason to artificially force the cost of precursors on the TP higher so they match the price of crafting them
Markets change all the time. I don’t see an issue that needs to be addressed at all. What difference does it make if you can buy precursors for cheap, other than it reduces the cost to making a legendary for those wanting to do so quickly?
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Markets change all the time. I don’t see an issue that needs to be addressed at all. What difference does it make if you can buy precursors for cheap, other than it reduces the cost to making a legendary for those wanting to do so quickly?
This is very true. I’m in the process of crafting The Bifrost right now and I constantly watch the price of the precursor (The Legend) and it goes up and down and back up again constantly. Same with the Leaf of Kudzu and the rest.
I think its fine. It gives players a guaranteed way to get their precursors without RNG and without being forced to buy it from the TP.
I don’t see a difference between buying precursor, or buying a kittenton of mats (because only a tiny fraction of people will ever be able to farm those mats directly). Except of course that buying prec directly is cheaper, and doesn’t require added grind of unbuyable mats (like geodes).
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
It really depends on how you play. With the collections, I can pay 5 gold up front to unlock it, and then forget about it. The collection fills up while I play the game normally, I never have to dedicate time towards hunting for gold or anything outside of the few items that require talking to NPCs (but I enjoy those personally). By the time I have the non crafting portions of a collection finished, I have gathered a substantial portion of the mats required to do the crafting.
As someone who hates gold farming, its a much more enjoyable process to gather a precursor, even if it is a bit more expensive.
I think its fine. It gives players a guaranteed way to get their precursors without RNG and without being forced to buy it from the TP.
I don’t see a difference between buying precursor, or buying a kittenton of mats (because only a tiny fraction of people will ever be able to farm those mats directly). Except of course that buying prec directly is cheaper, and doesn’t require added grind of unbuyable mats (like geodes).
It matters to people who find it hard to save up the coin to buy outright. It matters to people who want to use the TP as little as possible. It matters to those who don’t feel that have “earned” a reward if it can be bought outright.
None of that matters to me (and I presume not to you either), which is why I advise people who only care about the coin to buy outright (unless it’s 400+ gold more to do that, which it very rarely is).
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
It matters very much, and I don’t see this changing. The single biggest effect on the value of the first precursors is required play in an unpopular game mode.
Make the Gift of Battle available outside that mode, or make that game mode fun enough to want to play, and those precursors will regain value back.
Otherwise it’s basically free fall till they are sold at vendors.
People are paying to not play.
are you crazy? so now that it gets easier for the players that don’t rake in gold left and right to make them you want to raise the prices?? i don’t even own one legendary, i have played since this game came out and even making bifrost was impossible, honestly whichever legendary i look at the requirements are insane.
So were you going for sympathy by calling me crazy? Lol. I’ve played since day 5 and if you wanted a precursor, you’d have one after playing that long. Either by looting or crafting the precursor. You chose other activities. That was your choice. Whining about it now? Lol.
Just wait some more, instead of doing something about it, and they will all be dirt cheap and worthless. I hope you enjoy it then, like you would any other blue or green weapon. Actually looking at the requirements, I thought Bifrost was relatively simple to make compared to some of the others.
What you get is what you put into it. Don’t expect much.
It matters very much, and I don’t see this changing. The single biggest effect on the value of the first precursors is required play in an unpopular game mode.
Make the Gift of Battle available outside that mode, or make that game mode fun enough to want to play, and those precursors will regain value back.
Otherwise it’s basically free fall till they are sold at vendors.
People are paying to not play.
There’s not much evidence that the acquisition of the Gift of Battle matters to the prices.
Speaking for myself, the biggest obstacle is world map completion — I can get the GoB in under 8 hours of total game time, either by spending that time capping monuments and killing sentries/yaks or by doing the easy dailies (which are, coincidentally, capping monuments and killing sentries/yaks). In contrast, it takes me at least an hour to complete a map (slightly less for a few; a lot more for Kessex and Lornar’s etc), which means about 25 hours for 2 Gifts of Exploration, i.e. 50% more effort (and for me, 50% less fun, too, if not worse).
I get that some people are still unhappy about the change to GoB (and how it was introduced). But there’s no evidence it’s such a huge number of people that it’s affecting prices in the way you’re suggesting.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Of course, I’m not certain. There are too many variables. The ones sticking out like sore thumbs though are the significant cost drops and the continuing comments that wvw is steadily loosing players.
Do we have any idea’s as to why those two things would not be significant to the falling prices? Perhaps players are just flush with gold, but even if they were, wouldn’t they be buying mats instead of precursors?
Maybe there are just more players making them now, but I suspect there are just more players buying to avoid playing. If things remain unchanged, it should become more obvious. There still seems to be plenty of players who want a first version Legendary…
There has never been a reason for Anet to intervene on precursor prices … crafting precursors was not put in to control prices or affect markets. It was simply added to the game because people wanted to craft them. They shouldn’t do anything, just like it’s always been.
Of course, I’m not certain. There are too many variables. The ones sticking out like sore thumbs though are the significant cost drops and the continuing comments that wvw is steadily loosing players.
Do we have any idea’s as to why those two things would not be significant to the falling prices? Perhaps players are just flush with gold, but even if they were, wouldn’t they be buying mats instead of precursors?
Maybe there are just more players making them now, but I suspect there are just more players buying to avoid playing. If things remain unchanged, it should become more obvious. There still seems to be plenty of players who want a first version Legendary…
Personally, I will be going back into WvW soon.
There are so many reasons that markets rise & fall that I don’t see how you can attribute the change in precursor prices to the GoB changes. For example, Zap’s six month history includes ups & downs that more or less compare with the supply.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
In my opinion it is a reason to intervene if one way of getting a precursor is vastly more expensive than another. If you craft the Lover right now, this will cost you 938 gold, buying it on tp is 480 gold. If you craft the energizer, it costs you 485 gold, it costs 168 gold on tp. Sure prices fluctuate, but not that much and average prices went down a lot and that is normal due to no new demand (as people don’t ever need more than one precursor in the system right now) . And the prices will go down even more, because the people that want the precursor already have it and will never need a second one, while precursors are still created every day due to drops, So in my opinion it really makes sense to bind precursor prices, so people that want to craft it don’t get a disadvantage by doing so.
The gift of battle isn’t needed for precursor-crafting so has nothing to do with precursor prices.
The gift of battle isn’t needed for precursor-crafting so has nothing to do with precursor prices.
Of course it has something to do with precursor prices: a lot of people don’t bother with precursors unless they are working on a legendary. Tumult is correct that that the subset who feels GoBs are too hard to acquire will be less willing to spend time or money on the precursor, affecting the demand, which affects the price.
While I doubt very much that fraction is high enough to have an impact, that doesn’t mean that there’s zero correlation.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
In my opinion it is a reason to intervene if one way of getting a precursor is vastly more expensive than another.
There are lots of ways to obtain specific things in this game … and they have price differences too. You’re opinion doesn’t align with how the game allows a person to obtain most things in it. Clearly these differences are not accidents, so what would be the compelling reason for Anet to deal with the differences for precursors as a subset of these things you can get that have different prices? What reasonable process do you propose that Anet ensure crafting price = purchase price?
In my opinion it is a reason to intervene if one way of getting a precursor is vastly more expensive than another.
Price equivalence was definitely not the purpose of the precursor collections. It was certainty, that is, you can definitely, through your own effort, obtain a precursor.
That does not require that it is less expensive than purchasing on the trading post, since the equivalence holds absolutely true: you can’t be certain that a precursor is available at a price you want, but you can absolutely do the collection and obtain it.
It’s an alternative way to obtain them. It’s not an equivalent way to obtain them.
Just like not all paths to ascended gear, or whatever, are identical.
@Obtena you can find my suggestions in the first post on this page. If Arenanet made collections for the game that are obsolete because of the prices, then the work Arenanet made for this parts of the game is for nothing. For me that would be reason enough to make that small changes to make the content worth it. I think the binding of the precursor prices to the materials (with a vendor where you can exchange the pres for ascended materials with a slight luck factor) would ensure, that the cost for the precursors would stay parallel to crafting cost in the future and not move off further.
@SlippyCheeze When the precursor collections were implemented, they were all slightly cheaper than buying the precursor outright, and afaik that was also posted in the forums back then by devs. But since there was no binding to the ascended materials that are needed and with dropping demand crafting is now in some cases vastly more expensive than buying outright.
Of course it is also good if there are “alternative ways” but why do you think it wouldn’t be good if those ways both were from an economic standpoint equivalent or at least comparable? To have an alternative way is worth nothing if it has in no way an advantage over the other way. And I think that is a bit sad in a game where you can actually control the cost of each and every way.
Same thing for ascended armor: if there is one way to get it that is clearly better than any other way, then this devaluates all the other ways of getting it. That may be a reason why the devs changed the acquisition of ascended armor in pvp.
But I can see that I seem to be one of the only guys that thinks it would be nice to have several comparable ways of getting precursors instead of just a one-click-buy from tp. That’s fine, if I am the only one that seems to want to change it, then it surely isn’t worth it for arenanet to actually make the change Thanks for the feedback guys.
@Obtena you can find my suggestions in the first post on this page. If Arenanet made collections for the game that are obsolete because of the prices, then the work Arenanet made for this parts of the game is for nothing.
Perhaps. On the other hand, it’s not the first system they’ve put a lot of work into, and then abandoned. it’s no more likely to receive a rework than dungeons.
And collections are economically obsolete not due to the current prices, but due to their original design (Anet wanted them to be a gold and materials sink, which tied them too much to TP. At the same time they didn’t want them to be cheaper than on TP, which made sure that TP will end up as the more economically sensible choice most of the time).
So, everything is working as intended. It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
(notice: i don’t agreee with that original idea, and i think that the whole system was badly designed due to it, but that’s a separate discussion)
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
@Obtena you can find my suggestions in the first post on this page. If Arenanet made collections for the game that are obsolete because of the prices, then the work Arenanet made for this parts of the game is for nothing. For me that would be reason enough to make that small changes to make the content worth it. I think the binding of the precursor prices to the materials (with a vendor where you can exchange the pres for ascended materials with a slight luck factor) would ensure, that the cost for the precursors would stay parallel to crafting cost in the future and not move off further.
Fundamental GW2 truth #1: Anet WANTS players to use the TP. Your suggestion is contradicting this rule … it’s evident throughout the game and even with the most recent changes that this is very important to Anet; as an example, the Ascended gear vendor price change in fractals. Any implementation that allows players to avoid the TP will not be made with the aim to equalize prices … it will have an intentional, large price gap facouring the use of the TP. The reason is complicated, but it boils down to the fact that I can buy gold with real life money … and that’s what Anet wants you to do.
At some point, ANet will no doubt have to take another look at the Legendary crafting setup. As others have pointed out, Gen1 Precursor prices have fallen quite a bit from their high of a few years ago. As the Gen2 Legendaries continue to roll out, and with potentially Gen3 Legendaries coming with future expansions, the “prestige” of Gen1 Legendaries will only fall further. Because there exist abundant uses for T5 – T7 mats in the game, demand for the T5- T7 mats will remain constant, but the supply of Precursors just continues to grow. Eventually it will reach a point where it will be universally cheaper to just buy the Precursors rather than craft them. And at that point, nobody will craft Precursors anymore.
I imagine this is a situation for ANet where they’ve said “we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.”
Is there a known breakpoint for the cost of crafting a prec vs buying one? Are there any Gen1 legendaries that are still definitely over the breakpoint? I noticed The Legend is like 900g.
Is there a known breakpoint for the cost of crafting a prec vs buying one? Are there any Gen1 legendaries that are still definitely over the breakpoint? I noticed The Legend is like 900g.
It changes but gw2efficiency and gw2bltc show the craft vs buy costs. They don’t account for the time it takes to do the collections though.
Just checked and a lot are cheaper to craft that before. I still don’t think it’s worth the time and hassle to do so when you can just use that time to farm gold instead.
Keep in mind that sites like GW2 Efficiency and GW2 BLTC only track market value — they don’t take into account your time or effort. I dislike map completion, so I might be willing to spend more to avoid it, whereas my friend loves map completion and can’t spend Gifts of Exploration quickly enough.
So the breakpoint varies with the market and with your own idea of the value of your time & labor.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Thanks for the feedback guys.