Guild Wars 2

I’ll just leave this here.

I’m not telling you to not buy the expansion, I’m just saying it may be wise to wait till more is known

Best way to put it! Sadly, people getting your point are largely the same people who already opted out on falling for the same speech again. It could be used though to remind ANet where they wanted to go and let them figure out if they’re anywhere near that place now.

Actually “don’t buy the expansion” is exactly what you’re saying OP. Just come out and say it. Stop dancing around the bush.

The only 2 things are stopping me getting HoT. The unknown amount of content, and putting my self on my wife’s kitten list.

BrotherBelial.3094:

The only 2 things are stopping me getting HoT. The unknown amount of content, and putting my self on my wife’s kitten list.

And these are two very valid reasons – especially the second one! Nothing better than a quiet life.

waaait a second
“As a structure the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you’re doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there”
-Ree Soesbee, game designer

did they actually fix that somehow without me noticing, I must have been busy in a zerg somewhere

Colin Johanson’s sword swinging is still the best illustration of things they didn’t want in their game) Until they added it as a skill description
Question is, what if we were too busy dancing for cows and zerging the bosses taking 10 minutes naps in Cursed to actually catch Anet come back to their Manifesto’s principles?! You think we missed that too?

What the Op: Jerkic is exactly saying, is " Learn what is true in order to do what is right "
-Thomas Huxley

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Actually “don’t buy the expansion” is exactly what you’re saying OP. Just come out and say it. Stop dancing around the bush.

This is a clear demonstration of how difficult words are for some people.

“Wait to buy” suddenly becomes “don’t buy”. “Wait for a release date” becomes “OMG ENTITLED VETS ARE BOYCOTTING”. This is exactly why Edna Mode said ‘no capes’.

mmmm sorry but I think gw2 is really a non grind game.

everything u grind for is something u dont really need to play the game.

Acended gear is the only grind factor I admit but what else?

Ahh the infamous “I swung a sword” line. Second in epicness only to Diablo 3’s Jay Wilson “And then we doubled it”.

KGS.9842:

waaait a second
“As a structure the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you’re doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there”
-Ree Soesbee, game designer

did they actually fix that somehow without me noticing, I must have been busy in a zerg somewhere

I liked how they fixed that in original. It was instanced, so the boss DIDN’T respawn. And everybody around you wasn’t doing the same thing, cause the only people around were your heroes.

Its like they already had an answer to a problem then just forgot it.

Balsa.3951:

mmmm sorry but I think gw2 is really a non grind game.

everything u grind for is something u dont really need to play the game.

Acended gear is the only grind factor I admit but what else?

I see this stated a lot, but may I ask, what exactly would you do in the game if not grind? I quit playing like 4 months after launch and just recently came back and it’s amazing how little the game has changed. Apparently, almost all of the content ANet has to show for all this time is temporary “Living Story” stuff – simply genius!

GW2’s PvE “endgame” is entirely about vanity and almost everything can be boiled down to the universal currency gold. Gold, by the way, is constantly being devalued.

The game is pretty much stagnant and in a few months I would expect the core content of HoT to be just as stagnant for years to come, so again, what else would you do besides grind? Stand in town all day?

Also, thank you OP for the video. It was a very useful reminder.

OnionXI.6735:

GW2’s PvE “endgame” is entirely about vanity and almost everything can be boiled down to the universal currency gold. Gold, by the way, is constantly being devalued.

That! MMOs tend to keep players working towards something – better gear, achievements, even vanity items.
GW2 has this better gear sorted: open the TP, buy gems, convert to gold, get your materials, done. Same tactic can apply to all vanity items. All that’s left are some achievements – some bugged (due to bugged content), some meaningless.

The incentive to play the game is: you’ll get some loot. It doesn’t matter if you’re doing instances, events, champ trains. Same loot can drop everywhere. So the rewards are not much of a reason to visit any other content that may be more challenging.

Now looking at similar business models, I’d say that GW2 doesn’t shine at all. Tera is rewarding the players running instances with dungeon specific loot in a shorter time-frame (a lot shorter if you consider getting your stuff from just running the instances in GW2). Aion, Rift offer also “phsyical” content bound to every instance (usually better, dungeon themed gear). We get tonics and the funny 3 tokens to help us get that 2000+ complete gear from an instance – much reward for facing the evil, corupt bosses and risking our lives there for the Queen, Tyria and the future generations.

Guild Wars 1 was offering it too! There’s very little excitement at the end of the dungeon to just get a generic amount of tokens (3 when repeating it) and maybe a tonic, since everything else you can also get by joining a champ train or a wb train. There’s a bigger feeling of accomplishment when the dungeon chest gives something that is related to the dungeon and of value. Like the DSR in UW, or the BDS and so on. And within GW2, different qualities of dungeon-themed gear (from trashy to ascended) would’ve been a better incentive to have people keep visiting (maybe with some very rare minis or skins that). And maybe something can be done with the generic champ boxes too…

Anyway, GW2 end-game is a pointless grind, ‘cause there’s absolutely no incentive to go this or that place. Wherever you go, you get same stuff. And the main reason to get all those champ boxes? Lodestones and T6 mats that don’t have too much of a logical drop. Anet hates farming too, not just grinding as they stated. However stacks over stacks of precious mats needed with no other way other than TP to get them reliably. Which either gets everyone farming champ boxes, or grinding for gold… meh…

KGS.9842:

waaait a second
“As a structure the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you’re doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there”
-Ree Soesbee, game designer

did they actually fix that somehow without me noticing, I must have been busy in a zerg somewhere

Immediately after the manifesto was posted, there was a clarication. Colin is talking about events. Ree is talking about the personal story.

Don’t preorder any game, for any reason, ever.

Ahh my old friend the manifesto. Loved the game they promised more than I’ll ever love GW2. I’ll wait until launch and see if the xpac is worth my money. What the heck I’m already in Tyria so it needs to be good to get more cash from me. No pre purchasing this time Anet, unless you’ve got a new manifesto trailer, I always fall for those.

Vayne.8563:

Immediately after the manifesto was posted, there was a clarication. Colin is talking about events. Ree is talking about the personal story.

And precisely what would you be doing in the GW2’s events, if not swinging your sword (unless you don’t use a sword)?! The zerg approach with high focus on raw dps makes it kinda pointless to do anything else. Regarding the hearts, yes, you sometimes feed cows or dance for them.

The big difference is that now GW2 with its open world also has mobs with huge HP pools to accomodate the situations where there are 100 people swinging their swords at the same time (I know the map limit is higher, but some are always afk, hm?) As such, from the “use your skills wisely” we had in gw1, action shifted to “swing your sword again” in gw2.

As for the personal story… That stop with Tybalt closing the gates of Claw Island. I felt a lot better when Kormir stepped in and ninja’ed the glory than when Gravity defeated Zhaitan. GW2 is so void of emotions in both acting and cinematics that it makes it incredibly difficult to consider it a better approach.

Finally, let’s look at the reward system:

• Dungeons give nothing special – the generic champion box and a pathetic amount of tokens for each baddie you put down.
• Karka Queen is an extremely laggy zerg-a-lot fight that rewards generic bags
• Teq’s dragon boxes prove to be double-wrapped champion boxes
• TT’s Wurm Chests are also double-wrapped bags
• SW bosses drop the same bags you get from chests and DT’s same boxes you get in Orr or FGS.
  And all these boxes and bags have?!… random generic loot. How’s that for a better approach to events?! “I got a champion box! Hey! I got a champion box again! Hehey! I got another box! This is so fun!”

Vayne.8563:

KGS.9842:

waaait a second
“As a structure the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you’re doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there”
-Ree Soesbee, game designer

did they actually fix that somehow without me noticing, I must have been busy in a zerg somewhere

Immediately after the manifesto was posted, there was a clarication. Colin is talking about events. Ree is talking about the personal story.

Just like immediately after the pre-purchase announcement they changed their FAQ.

@Omocha Guild Wars 2 has what I describe as “the illusion of loot”. If you play RPGs you see loads of loot drops, mostly trash, that you can disable in the menus so that only more valuable drops are visible. GW2 loot is almost exclusively the trash drops that I disable from view in a RPG.

The best loot is often RNG bags which means you’re rolling twice to get anything of value. This is one of the main gripes I’ve always had with the game.

This is right in the feels.

GranspearZX.5624:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Actually “don’t buy the expansion” is exactly what you’re saying OP. Just come out and say it. Stop dancing around the bush.

This is a clear demonstration of how difficult words are for some people.

“Wait to buy” suddenly becomes “don’t buy”. “Wait for a release date” becomes “OMG ENTITLED VETS ARE BOYCOTTING”. This is exactly why Edna Mode said ‘no capes’.

Considering he used the manifesto, “don’t but it, they are lying” is exactly what’s being implied. It’s not ‘lets wait and see’ which are the words used. Considering people use the manifesto as a means of directly saying Anet has lied to us, I don’t see how it’s chosen use could imply anything else.

jerkic.6319:

I’m not telling you to not buy the expansion, I’m just saying it may be wise to wait till more is known

Anet has been largely silent on the specifics about the HoT expansion.

Don’t you think for even one second that it is unintentional.

Anet is keeping us in the dark on purpose.

Players want to know things like…

How many new pve maps are we getting?

How many world boss events?

How many raids/dungeons/instanced group content?

How many new types of creatures?

etc.

If anet was extremely vocal about all of the different features/additions we will see in the expansion, players could decide if they want to buy it or not…

Instead… Anet trumpets about all of the features and specifics that shine a good light on their product….. but remain completely silent about details that would shed a negative light.

Anywhere there is a detail that is absent, read between the lines and realize that it is something negative that anet is hiding…. otherwise they would be bragging about it.

Balsa.3951:

mmmm sorry but I think gw2 is really a non grind game.

everything u grind for is something u dont really need to play the game.

Acended gear is the only grind factor I admit but what else?

um, kinda everything:

• you need to grind dungeons to get dungeon armour/weapons
• you need to grind events for karma
• you need to grind WVW for WVW rank
• you need to grind PVP for PVP rank
• you need to grind the world for world completion
• you need to grind for legendaries
  etc

not saying GW2 is a grindy game, it’s not, it’s very casual-friendly, but it’s a themepark game at the end of the day, and themepark games are only ever about grind. you only need to play a good sandbox game (eg: Eve, Archeage, Darkfall etc) to see how grindy all themepark games truly are.

grind the world ….hrmm….never heard it put that way before…..makes it sound dirty……i like it!

but i agree though. massive grind!!

I just logged in to wvw and was instant killed by thief, engineer and elementalist. Yes 3 to 1: fastest instant kill i ever saw: so fast there was no downstate. Again. i refuse to buy and will not buy the expansion. The good news is: i have made my decision: I prepurchased FINAL FANTASY XIV: Heavensward. Is not that a wise decision for prepurchasing a expansion that the base game is already challenging, fun, reward-risk, hard-work and effort game

DarkSyze.8627:

I just logged in to wvw and was instant killed by thief, engineer and elementalist. Yes 3 to 1: fastest instant kill i ever saw: so fast there was no downstate. Again. i refuse to buy and will not buy the expansion.

I’m missing the point, I guess. What does buying or not buying HoT have to do with this scenario?

Stormbolt.7293:

Don’t preorder any game, for any reason, ever.

This is the only correct answer.

Celtic Lady.3729:

DarkSyze.8627:

I just logged in to wvw and was instant killed by thief, engineer and elementalist. Yes 3 to 1: fastest instant kill i ever saw: so fast there was no downstate. Again. i refuse to buy and will not buy the expansion.

I’m missing the point, I guess. What does buying or not buying HoT have to do with this scenario?

The point to the scenario is: " We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them- No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it ".

Arena net created these problems and is aware of them. How can Arena net create a expansion to solve these problems using the same thinking and using the same level of consciousness that created them?

I am sure you hear this before: " New Year, Same Old Problems"

-That is all-

scerevisiae.1972:

Balsa.3951:

mmmm sorry but I think gw2 is really a non grind game.

everything u grind for is something u dont really need to play the game.

Acended gear is the only grind factor I admit but what else?

um, kinda everything:

• you need to grind dungeons to get dungeon armour/weapons
• you need to grind events for karma
• you need to grind WVW for WVW rank
• you need to grind PVP for PVP rank
• you need to grind the world for world completion
• you need to grind for legendaries
  etc

not saying GW2 is a grindy game, it’s not, it’s very casual-friendly, but it’s a themepark game at the end of the day, and themepark games are only ever about grind. you only need to play a good sandbox game (eg: Eve, Archeage, Darkfall etc) to see how grindy all themepark games truly are.

You seriously just claimed Archeage isn’t a themepark and implied it isn’t grindy. A game that puts a timegate on how many loot bags you can open isn’t grindy.

OtakuDFifty.2965:

You seriously just claimed Archeage isn’t a themepark and implied it isn’t grindy. A game that puts a timegate on how many loot bags you can open isn’t grindy.

So true. lol

Well the way people see it is that they’re going to buy the expansion anyway. Those that are hesitating because of what appears to be a lack of content in their minds; what are you going to do? Not buy the expansion and be left to play the base game until the next expansion? Quit the game entirely?

Ayrilana.1396:

Well the way people see it is that they’re going to buy the expansion anyway. Those that are hesitating because of what appears to be alack of content in their minds, What are you going to do? Not buy the expansion and be left to play the base game until the next expansion? Quit the game entirely?

They’ll probably wait for it to go on sale and pick it up then.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Ayrilana.1396:

Well the way people see it is that they’re going to buy the expansion anyway. Those that are hesitating because of what appears to be alack of content in their minds, What are you going to do? Not buy the expansion and be left to play the base game until the next expansion? Quit the game entirely?

They’ll probably wait for it to go on sale and pick it up then.

True.

Ayrilana.1396:

Well the way people see it is that they’re going to buy the expansion anyway. Those that are hesitating because of what appears to be a lack of content in their minds; what are you going to do? Not buy the expansion and be left to play the base game until the next expansion? Quit the game entirely?

I have a steam full of games waiting me to play them. For now i’m killing zeds in Killing Floor 2, schoolgirl in Yandere Simulator and having fun with friends in LoL and other games. Blade and soul is on horizon, and lots of other games that were announced on E3.

So what will i do? I’ll wait.And then, when sales come, i’ll decide to buy or not to buy. Maybe at that point i will be thinking about GW2 as “meh” just because it was long time ago.

I see no lack of games anywhere soon.

Ayrilana.1396:

Well the way people see it is that they’re going to buy the expansion anyway. Those that are hesitating because of what appears to be a lack of content in their minds; what are you going to do? Not buy the expansion and be left to play the base game until the next expansion? Quit the game entirely?

most will buy it when it comes out, but not preorder. At least, that’s the way these things normally go.

Zero Day.2594:

Vayne.8563:

KGS.9842:

waaait a second
“As a structure the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you’re doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there”
-Ree Soesbee, game designer

did they actually fix that somehow without me noticing, I must have been busy in a zerg somewhere

Immediately after the manifesto was posted, there was a clarication. Colin is talking about events. Ree is talking about the personal story.

Just like immediately after the pre-purchase announcement they changed their FAQ.

I’m sure they changed their fact as soon as they realized it was wrong. What makes you think once it was announced that someone didn’t complain and cause it to be changed?

DarkSyze.8627:

Celtic Lady.3729:

DarkSyze.8627:

I just logged in to wvw and was instant killed by thief, engineer and elementalist. Yes 3 to 1: fastest instant kill i ever saw: so fast there was no downstate. Again. i refuse to buy and will not buy the expansion.

I’m missing the point, I guess. What does buying or not buying HoT have to do with this scenario?

The point to the scenario is: " We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them- No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it ".

Arena net created these problems and is aware of them. How can Arena net create a expansion to solve these problems using the same thinking and using the same level of consciousness that created them?

I am sure you hear this before: " New Year, Same Old Problems"

-That is all-

Did you play games like Rift or Aion or any other open world pvp?! Getting zerged there is a reality there. You’d even get zerged by high levels on a low level map, and they’d do that not for the fun of a good pvp clash, but just to troll you.
While a 3v1 kinda removes the “noble” reasons of pvp’ing, it’s not uncommon at all. Just as it is not uncommon for people to just slack, for example at Shatterer and ask “Pre done already?”, or to afk in Silverwastes till Breach.

Just join the zerg in WvW or make your own group before going in. If you prefer roaming, then you should take into account that ^ such situations are possible and probable. I see a lot of reasons to move away from GW2 in its current state, but getting zerged in WvW is certainly not one of them

scerevisiae.1972:

you only need to play a good sandbox game (eg: Eve, Archeage, Darkfall etc) to see how grindy all themepark games truly are.

Lol, Archeage is grindy as kitten, I don’t know what you’re talking about. There hasn’t been a good sandbox MMORPG in years… in fact the only one that comes remotely to mind for me was Mabinogi, which even that game is struggling (the reason why is another story though).

It should have been “I auto-attacked, hey I auto-attacked again”. That’s the majority of the open world PvE.

you deserve a special like button for that text, Breaking Bad It’s extemely true, funny and also incredibly sad…

When I was 8 I boycotted Christmas because my mommy wouldnt let me open my presents early. She tried to lay that ‘its not about recieving, its about giving crap’ on me, and its about appreciating the sacrifices some dude made for me, but I wasnt having it.

I did the same thing every year untl I was 13, then my mommy let me open my presents in november.

Then when Christmas came I was bored, and all I had to look forward to was more grinding for karma in church

I ruined my own christman day because I made unreasonable demands of my Mommy.

Vayne.8563:

KGS.9842:

waaait a second
“As a structure the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you’re doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there”
-Ree Soesbee, game designer

did they actually fix that somehow without me noticing, I must have been busy in a zerg somewhere

Immediately after the manifesto was posted, there was a clarication. Colin is talking about events. Ree is talking about the personal story.

So you’re saying their communication issues stretch back to pre-release?

Greymelken.1892:

When I was 8 I boycotted Christmas because my mommy wouldnt let me open my presents early. She tried to lay that ‘its not about recieving, its about giving crap’ on me, and its about appreciating the sacrifices some dude made for me, but I wasnt having it.

I did the same thing every year untl I was 13, then my mommy let me open my presents in november.

Then when Christmas came I was bored, and all I had to look forward to was more grinding for karma in church

I ruined my own christman day because I made unreasonable demands of my Mommy.

You’d be better off comparing this to complaining about your little brother getting all your old toys without having to wait for xmas. But it would still be bad. ‘Cause it doesn’t really fit.

And your “unreasonable demands” is such a subjective qualification that it can’t and shouldn’t be used when it comes to the way people perceive value or normality.

You know, there are cops out there that shoot innocent people because they had a “resonable belief” they could be not so innocent.

Back to you boycotting your own Christmas and ruining your fun though. If each time you opened a gift box from your mother there would be a googly eyes rock inside, you’d probably refuse to clean your room only to receive a nice gift from her again, which probably at christmas time would be at least 2 googly eyes rocks.

Iason Evan.3806:

So you’re saying their communication issues stretch back to pre-release?

It doesn’t actually. What they want to do and what their bosses want them to do are two different things, given how many complaints there were since launch about everything and how they didn’t have the time to do much other than fixing the amount of clutter in the Gem Store…

I’m pretty sure they would’ve delayed the release a bit more if it was up to them, fine tune it as the problems would start to arise past-launch and so on.

As such, I think what they said in their manifesto was what they wanted to deliver but were obstructed in doing so by the higher-ups. I hope it’s that. Trying really hard to keep ANet’s image clean, given their past product and behavior.