Guild Wars 2

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

If it were impossible then nobody would have completed them.

Adventures only require you to get bronze which is doable for all of them.

Ayrilana.1396:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

If it were impossible then nobody would have completed them.

Adventures only require you to get bronze which is doable for all of them.

I thought a bunch of them required silver? ( not disputing that it’s possible, merely that they need a bit more than bronze)

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Ayrilana.1396:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

If it were impossible then nobody would have completed them.

Adventures only require you to get bronze which is doable for all of them.

I thought a bunch of them required silver? ( not disputing that it’s possible, merely that they need a bit more than bronze)

They used to until April of last year. I think the legendary precursor collections still require silver or above though.

Ayrilana.1396:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Ayrilana.1396:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

If it were impossible then nobody would have completed them.

Adventures only require you to get bronze which is doable for all of them.

I thought a bunch of them required silver? ( not disputing that it’s possible, merely that they need a bit more than bronze)

They used to until April of last year. I think the legendary precursor collections still require silver or above though.

oh, good to know. I guess I had them done already.. or wanted silver for mastery points and didn’t notice.. either way.

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

I completely agree. Not only are Adventures irritatingly difficult, but I personally don’t want to play GW2 in order to play some other game. I’m in-game to play the MMO.

Ayrilana.1396:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

If it were impossible then nobody would have completed them.

Adventures only require you to get bronze which is doable for all of them.

I’m pretty sure the OP means “impossible” for them. It’s great that you are awesome at the game Ayrilana and nothing anyone complains about is an issue for you. Different players have different experiences from you – not everyone is the same.

Djinn.9245:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

I completely agree. Not only are Adventures irritatingly difficult, but I personally don’t want to play GW2 in order to play some other game. I’m in-game to play the MMO.

Ayrilana.1396:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

If it were impossible then nobody would have completed them.

Adventures only require you to get bronze which is doable for all of them.

I’m pretty sure the OP means “impossible” for them. It’s great that you are awesome at the game Ayrilana and nothing anyone complains about is an issue for you. Different players have different experiences from you – not everyone is the same.

Except none are really that impossible to get bronze in order to complete those collections. Adventures are part of HoT so it’s not unreasonable for the collections to incorporate them in some way. There are a ton of guides available that explain step-by-step on how to successfully do any adventure.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

I completely agree. Not only are Adventures irritatingly difficult, but I personally don’t want to play GW2 in order to play some other game. I’m in-game to play the MMO.

Ayrilana.1396:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

If it were impossible then nobody would have completed them.

Adventures only require you to get bronze which is doable for all of them.

I’m pretty sure the OP means “impossible” for them. It’s great that you are awesome at the game Ayrilana and nothing anyone complains about is an issue for you. Different players have different experiences from you – not everyone is the same.

Except none are really that impossible to get bronze in order to complete those collections.

So what are you saying about those of us who can’t do them?

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

I completely agree. Not only are Adventures irritatingly difficult, but I personally don’t want to play GW2 in order to play some other game. I’m in-game to play the MMO.

Ayrilana.1396:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

If it were impossible then nobody would have completed them.

Adventures only require you to get bronze which is doable for all of them.

I’m pretty sure the OP means “impossible” for them. It’s great that you are awesome at the game Ayrilana and nothing anyone complains about is an issue for you. Different players have different experiences from you – not everyone is the same.

Except none are really that impossible to get bronze in order to complete those collections.

So what are you saying about those of us who can’t do them?

If you can’t do them you can’t get those collections done, in the same way that if you can’t raid you can’t get legendary armor. It’s not significantly different from not being able to beat Liadri to get the Liadri mini…but adventures are much easier than beating Liadri.

Ayrilana.1396:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Ayrilana.1396:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

If it were impossible then nobody would have completed them.

Adventures only require you to get bronze which is doable for all of them.

I thought a bunch of them required silver? ( not disputing that it’s possible, merely that they need a bit more than bronze)

They used to until April of last year. I think the legendary precursor collections still require silver or above though.

Hivemaster still does too (which is ridiculous, considering Scrap Rifle is one of the hardest adventures in the game).

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Ayrilana.1396:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Ayrilana.1396:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

If it were impossible then nobody would have completed them.

Adventures only require you to get bronze which is doable for all of them.

I thought a bunch of them required silver? ( not disputing that it’s possible, merely that they need a bit more than bronze)

They used to until April of last year. I think the legendary precursor collections still require silver or above though.

Hivemaster still does too (which is ridiculous, considering Scrap Rifle is one of the hardest adventures in the game).

It really helps to use condi food during this adventure. Also, all the boosters work in adventures, as well as food and utilities. Those help too.

Oh no no no no no, I want others to suffer the same way I suffered to get there.

Vayne.8563:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

I completely agree. Not only are Adventures irritatingly difficult, but I personally don’t want to play GW2 in order to play some other game. I’m in-game to play the MMO.

Ayrilana.1396:

Sarah.8354:

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

If it were impossible then nobody would have completed them.

Adventures only require you to get bronze which is doable for all of them.

I’m pretty sure the OP means “impossible” for them. It’s great that you are awesome at the game Ayrilana and nothing anyone complains about is an issue for you. Different players have different experiences from you – not everyone is the same.

Except none are really that impossible to get bronze in order to complete those collections.

So what are you saying about those of us who can’t do them?

If you can’t do them you can’t get those collections done

Obviously

Ariurotl.3718:

Oh no no no no no, I want others to suffer the same way I suffered to get there.

There are two extreme points of view and I haven’t seen anyone expressing either in this thread:

• Everyone has to suffer to complete optional tasks in the game.
• No one should have to stretch to accomplish optional tasks in the game.

Instead, the OP (and others) don’t think it should be that hard while others are saying, maybe it should be difficult. Those are both reasonable points of view; let’s try not to dismiss them because we disagree.

For what it’s worth (i.e. not much), I hate adventures — if I wanted to play console games, I’d own, you know, a console game. So I wish ANet had never added them to the game. However, since they are in the game, I decided to give them all a try. And it’s not as hard as the OP suggests. There are guides and tips out there.

So I’d prefer if the OP opened with, “I’m struggling with adventures and they are blocking my completion of collections. Can anyone help me?” Instead, they’ve made a blanket statement about changing the game based on their perception of difficulty.

I also hate adventures, and I also gave them a try because of the half-completed collections which would be left dangling if I didn’t. Where silver was required, I managed to get silver.

The point is, practicing and doing it was not fun. Not for a second. Not for a single adventure. Although I play games for fun, I did this without fun. I felt I was forced to do them due to a half-completed collection. Scrap rifle silver, my last, took approx. 1 hour of pointless dumb clicking that I hoped would be over forever as soon as possible. I wasn’t even able to make completing an adventure a group event together with my guild, since adventures are strictly solo.

In conclusion, the game should not encourage gameplay that is not fun for a non-negligible part of the players. I cannot write “force gameplay”, because collections are optional. But we all know that they are shouting “complete me, complete me!” very, very loud, because they continue to show up every time you look at your incomplete collections, and you are not able to deactivate collections you don’t want to complete.

Bronze is easy enough that the average player should have no trouble with it. If they removed it from collections, it wouldn’t really matter. As is, they’re really only punishing those who are physically incapable of doing them and those with a higher latency where the mechanics fail to function properly, making them impossible.

This is the problem with solo-only content and why it’s so rare to see, whereas anyone can get carried through a raid for example. There should always be an alternative because of this. For example, an achievement for each adventure to play it for 15, 30 and 60 minutes, rewarding you with a one-time bronze, silver and gold chest. Keep in mind the other alternative is sharing your account.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

For what it’s worth (i.e. not much), I hate adventures — if I wanted to play console games, I’d own, you know, a console game. So I wish ANet had never added them to the game. However, since they are in the game, I decided to give them all a try. And it’s not as hard as the OP suggests. There are guides and tips out there.

So I’d prefer if the OP opened with, “I’m struggling with adventures and they are blocking my completion of collections. Can anyone help me?” Instead, they’ve made a blanket statement about changing the game based on their perception of difficulty.

Considering the thread title, I don’t think the OP is looking for help, he wanted to express his opinion that Adventures shouldn’t be required for collections and should be removed.

Silmar Alech.4305:

I also hate adventures, and I also gave them a try because of the half-completed collections which would be left dangling if I didn’t. Where silver was required, I managed to get silver.

The point is, practicing and doing it was not fun. Not for a second. Not for a single adventure. Although I play games for fun, I did this without fun. I felt I was forced to do them due to a half-completed collection. Scrap rifle silver, my last, took approx. 1 hour of pointless dumb clicking that I hoped would be over forever as soon as possible. I wasn’t even able to make completing an adventure a group event together with my guild, since adventures are strictly solo.

In conclusion, the game should not encourage gameplay that is not fun for a non-negligible part of the players. I cannot write “force gameplay”, because collections are optional. But we all know that they are shouting “complete me, complete me!” very, very loud, because they continue to show up every time you look at your incomplete collections, and you are not able to deactivate collections you don’t want to complete.

Here’s a question for you: did being forced to do Adventures if you wanted to get the collections done make you like Adventures? Do you do them for fun now that you’ve been forced to try them?

I would venture a guess that the vast majority who tried Adventures and found them fun didn’t feel “forced” to do them in the first place. And the vast majority who felt forced into playing Adventures probably didn’t find them fun.

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

For what it’s worth (i.e. not much), I hate adventures — if I wanted to play console games, I’d own, you know, a console game. So I wish ANet had never added them to the game. However, since they are in the game, I decided to give them all a try. And it’s not as hard as the OP suggests. There are guides and tips out there.

So I’d prefer if the OP opened with, “I’m struggling with adventures and they are blocking my completion of collections. Can anyone help me?” Instead, they’ve made a blanket statement about changing the game based on their perception of difficulty.

Considering the thread title, I don’t think the OP is looking for help, he wanted to express his opinion that Adventures shouldn’t be required for collections and should be removed.

That’s exactly my point. Instead of first looking for help to complete their collections, the OP is asking ANet to change the game.

I have no objection to the OP expressing their preference. Other people are expressing theirs.

Djinn.9245:

Here’s a question for you: did being forced to do Adventures if you wanted to get the collections done make you like Adventures? Do you do them for fun now that you’ve been forced to try them?

This didn’t make me like adventures. I never play them again after the required collection item or mastery point was obtained.
After I tried my first adventure, Bugs in the Branches, I knew that this was not a game mode I would like. More tries were not required to find that out.

My feelings changed from dislike to hate only after I found out I was required to make adventures for mastery points and certain collections. Before, it was just a game mode I disliked – like pvp, for example, which I don’t play either, but I don’t hate pvp, because it isn’t forced upon me like the adventures.

Silmar Alech.4305:

In conclusion, the game should not encourage gameplay that is not fun for a non-negligible part of the players. I cannot write “force gameplay”, because collections are optional.

In the last days, they are trying to get people into Dungeons. They are not fun either, but ArenaNet seems to think if they make just more people play them, they become more fun somehow. I’m pretty sure only a tiny percentage of players would do mini games like “adventures” and “activities” if they were not tied to mastery points, collections or dailies.

I’m pretty good at console and jump’n run games in general, so I am able to train those adventures and get gold or at least silver (depends on how much time I want to spend). I just want to play an MMO in my free time, not jump’n run. That is why I’m playing GW2 and not console games, right? I have silver or gold in most of the “adventures”, but only for the mastery points.

The person who got the idea to put mini-games into MMO games must have been a misunderstood sarcastic one. And some people seem to love them, which I don’t get. If you want to play a console game to take a break from the MMO, just leave the PC and play one. What’s next, arcade mini games that give Mystic Clovers?

Silmar Alech.4305:

Djinn.9245:

Here’s a question for you: did being forced to do Adventures if you wanted to get the collections done make you like Adventures? Do you do them for fun now that you’ve been forced to try them?

This didn’t make me like adventures. I never play them again after the required collection item or mastery point was obtained.
After I tried my first adventure, Bugs in the Branches, I knew that this was not a game mode I would like. More tries were not required to find that out.

My feelings changed from dislike to hate only after I found out I was required to make adventures for mastery points and certain collections. Before, it was just a game mode I disliked – like pvp, for example, which I don’t play either, but I don’t hate pvp, because it isn’t forced upon me like the adventures.

I’m with Silmar. when I first encountered them I was like “Eww!” and I just ignored them and just thought they were quaint. And then I started working on precursors, specialization collections and trying to max out Maguuma masteries and now I actively loathe them.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Some players should change their attitude. Asking devs to change it just be cause they feel not able or too lazy to try and complete it (I mean bronze – for real?) is just lame.

Doesn’t matter how easy or hard it is, and btw. what about Mastery Points? You don’t get any for bronze.

If collections and MPs are tied to content that has nothing to do with an MMO, why not tell the developers to change that? Nobody asked for them to be easier, because people don’t want to do them in the first place. Even if they gave gold just for participation, people could ask for collections to be disconnected from them. If the developer’s management decided that time, energy and money should be spent on creating console mini games because few people like them, that’s their decision. The data about participants they have tell them nothing about the success of those “adventures” because people do them not because they enjoy mini games, they only do them for collections and Mastery Points.

Remove collections and MPs from “adventures” and don’t make them dailies, and then collect data on participiation. My bet is the results would show that the time, energy and money spent on creating them was wasted because only a handful players do them. And then they probably only do them once and never return.

But no, “force” people into doing something that’s no fun for them, and the team can prove how much players like it because everybody does mini games, right?

Faaris.8013:

Silmar Alech.4305:

In conclusion, the game should not encourage gameplay that is not fun for a non-negligible part of the players. I cannot write “force gameplay”, because collections are optional.

In the last days, they are trying to get people into Dungeons. They are not fun either, but ArenaNet seems to think if they make just more people play them, they become more fun somehow. I’m pretty sure only a tiny percentage of players would do mini games like “adventures” and “activities” if they were not tied to mastery points, collections or dailies.

I’m pretty good at console and jump’n run games in general, so I am able to train those adventures and get gold or at least silver (depends on how much time I want to spend). I just want to play an MMO in my free time, not jump’n run. That is why I’m playing GW2 and not console games, right? I have silver or gold in most of the “adventures”, but only for the mastery points.

The person who got the idea to put mini-games into MMO games must have been a misunderstood sarcastic one. And some people seem to love them, which I don’t get. If you want to play a console game to take a break from the MMO, just leave the PC and play one. What’s next, arcade mini games that give Mystic Clovers?

There’s a seemingly large chunk of the ANet staff that’s into the old Nintendo-era nostalgia. The Nintendo-hard nostalgia, if you will. It’s been present ever since launch (and subsequently toned down afterward), and it’s resurfaced in Adventures. Thing is, the Nintendo-hard era was early in the wild frontier of gaming, before video game design grew in analytical/academic discipline, before things like “conveyance,” “iteration time,” and “humane design” became common phrases in game-design schools.

It’s not terrible that Adventures exist, though I’d prefer they not be tied to collections/legendaries. They might even have been fun. If they had been executed cleanly. But most Adventures are lag-prone, sticky-controlled messes. As it is, I’ve spit more invective from these chunky, ill-conceived minigames than I did the Caudacus fight (Jade constructs included).

Faaris.8013:

I’m pretty sure only a tiny percentage of players would do mini games like “adventures” and “activities” if they were not tied to mastery points, collections or dailies.

Adventures are the best source of experience. If you’re near them anyways, why would you skip them? Most are a free rare and only take about a minute on average.

Faaris.8013:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Some players should change their attitude. Asking devs to change it just be cause they feel not able or too lazy to try and complete it (I mean bronze – for real?) is just lame.

Doesn’t matter how easy or hard it is, and btw. what about Mastery Points? You don’t get any for bronze.

If collections and MPs are tied to content that has nothing to do with an MMO, why not tell the developers to change that? Nobody asked for them to be easier, because people don’t want to do them in the first place. Even if they gave gold just for participation, people could ask for collections to be disconnected from them. If the developer’s management decided that time, energy and money should be spent on creating console mini games because few people like them, that’s their decision. The data about participants they have tell them nothing about the success of those “adventures” because people do them not because they enjoy mini games, they only do them for collections and Mastery Points.

Remove collections and MPs from “adventures” and don’t make them dailies, and then collect data on participiation. My bet is the results would show that the time, energy and money spent on creating them was wasted because only a handful players do them. And then they probably only do them once and never return.

But no, “force” people into doing something that’s no fun for them, and the team can prove how much players like it because everybody does mini games, right?

I admit that it’s not a good idea to link adventures with MPs. But it is your opinion that adventures are not fun. I am no fan either, but I don’t mind doing them. Not everything is fun for every individual. There is always something someone dislikes. Get along with it. It is how it is. Anet heard a kitten ton of complains anyway, I think (and hope!) they will do it better with next expansion.

Faaris.8013:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Some players should change their attitude. Asking devs to change it just be cause they feel not able or too lazy to try and complete it (I mean bronze – for real?) is just lame.

Doesn’t matter how easy or hard it is, and btw. what about Mastery Points? You don’t get any for bronze.

If collections and MPs are tied to content that has nothing to do with an MMO, why not tell the developers to change that? Nobody asked for them to be easier, because people don’t want to do them in the first place. Even if they gave gold just for participation, people could ask for collections to be disconnected from them. If the developer’s management decided that time, energy and money should be spent on creating console mini games because few people like them, that’s their decision. The data about participants they have tell them nothing about the success of those “adventures” because people do them not because they enjoy mini games, they only do them for collections and Mastery Points.

Remove collections and MPs from “adventures” and don’t make them dailies, and then collect data on participiation. My bet is the results would show that the time, energy and money spent on creating them was wasted because only a handful players do them. And then they probably only do them once and never return.

But no, “force” people into doing something that’s no fun for them, and the team can prove how much players like it because everybody does mini games, right?

I didn’t realize there was some unanimous guideline on what is and isn’t part of an MMO.

Any content would drastically see a sharp drop in participation if you removed any incentive to do them such as mastery points or loot. What you’re suggesting would just give false/misleading results.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Anet heard a kitten ton of complains anyway, I think (and hope!) they will do it better with next expansion.

Will they? I’m worried about the total lack of response from Arenanet to the adventure and mastery point feedback of the players. The only thing they did was to make the worst offenders a bit easier, but the general design was not reworked. But it’s the design that is frowned upon. At least from me.
Hope is all that is left, but for hope alone I will not buy the next expansion.

Silmar Alech.4305:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Anet heard a kitten ton of complains anyway, I think (and hope!) they will do it better with next expansion.

Will they? I’m worried about the total lack of response from Arenanet to the adventure and mastery point feedback of the players. The only thing they did was to make the worst offenders a bit easier, but the general design was not reworked. But it’s the design that is frowned upon. At least from me.
Hope is all that is left, but for hope alone I will not buy the next expansion.

They’ve responded many times — they made substantial changes in the difficulty and accessibility of the adventures & the difficulty of some hero challenges.

The fact that they didn’t rework the general design isn’t an indication that they haven’t responded to feedback; it’s an indication that not everyone agrees there’s a major design problem.

As I’ve said before, I hate adventures; I wish they were never added to the game. However, they are in the game and they aren’t going anywhere. Best to make one’s peace with that and enjoy the game as it is (or find another game one likes as much, where the downsides aren’t as important).

Silmar Alech.4305:

This didn’t make me like adventures. I never play them again after the required collection item or mastery point was obtained.
After I tried my first adventure, Bugs in the Branches, I knew that this was not a game mode I would like. More tries were not required to find that out.

My feelings changed from dislike to hate only after I found out I was required to make adventures for mastery points and certain collections. Before, it was just a game mode I disliked – like pvp, for example, which I don’t play either, but I don’t hate pvp, because it isn’t forced upon me like the adventures.

This is my story, too.

However, I went one small step further: I tried most other adventures that I came across. If I thought I could get good enough to eke out a silver, I slogged my way through it.

But, those are rare. The adventures obviously don’t cater to older gamers. I was a pinball wizard in my teens, but that was almost five decades ago. Most of the adventures are way beyond my physical capabilities these days. And, they’re definitely not fun when you’re forced to do them.

I knew that I would (dis)like the game mode of adventures after my first try, but I actually played all of them and reached at least silver where required by some collection or mastery point. My view didn’t change while doing this – only that dislike turned into hate.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

For what it’s worth (i.e. not much), I hate adventures — if I wanted to play console games, I’d own, you know, a console game. So I wish ANet had never added them to the game. However, since they are in the game, I decided to give them all a try. And it’s not as hard as the OP suggests. There are guides and tips out there.

So I’d prefer if the OP opened with, “I’m struggling with adventures and they are blocking my completion of collections. Can anyone help me?” Instead, they’ve made a blanket statement about changing the game based on their perception of difficulty.

Considering the thread title, I don’t think the OP is looking for help, he wanted to express his opinion that Adventures shouldn’t be required for collections and should be removed.

That’s exactly my point. Instead of first looking for help to complete their collections, the OP is asking ANet to change the game.

Since Adventures are a solo-only activity, and are not End Game content, there should be no need for help. You should be able to simply play them and complete them. I don’t need hints or outside information to do other events in the game. Why make Adventures so difficult that people need outside help?

Not that I want to do Adventures in the first place. I want to play an RPG, not mini-games. So I agree that no mini-games should be required for content that is not mini-game oriented.

Healix.5819:

Faaris.8013:

I’m pretty sure only a tiny percentage of players would do mini games like “adventures” and “activities” if they were not tied to mastery points, collections or dailies.

Adventures are the best source of experience. If you’re near them anyways, why would you skip them? Most are a free rare and only take about a minute on average.

1. How would anyone know that?
2. Most people play an MMO RPG to play an RPG, not to play mini-games.

Ayrilana.1396:

Faaris.8013:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Some players should change their attitude. Asking devs to change it just be cause they feel not able or too lazy to try and complete it (I mean bronze – for real?) is just lame.

Doesn’t matter how easy or hard it is, and btw. what about Mastery Points? You don’t get any for bronze.

If collections and MPs are tied to content that has nothing to do with an MMO, why not tell the developers to change that? Nobody asked for them to be easier, because people don’t want to do them in the first place. Even if they gave gold just for participation, people could ask for collections to be disconnected from them. If the developer’s management decided that time, energy and money should be spent on creating console mini games because few people like them, that’s their decision. The data about participants they have tell them nothing about the success of those “adventures” because people do them not because they enjoy mini games, they only do them for collections and Mastery Points.

Remove collections and MPs from “adventures” and don’t make them dailies, and then collect data on participiation. My bet is the results would show that the time, energy and money spent on creating them was wasted because only a handful players do them. And then they probably only do them once and never return.

But no, “force” people into doing something that’s no fun for them, and the team can prove how much players like it because everybody does mini games, right?

I didn’t realize there was some unanimous guideline on what is and isn’t part of an MMO.

This game is an “MMORPG”. There are other types of MMOs, but an RPG about the Story. That’s what most people play an RPG for.

Ayrilana.1396:

Any content would drastically see a sharp drop in participation if you removed any incentive to do them such as mastery points or loot. What you’re suggesting would just give false/misleading results.

No one said to remove ANY incentive. Just give them their own incentives, not tied to other content.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

As I’ve said before, I hate adventures; I wish they were never added to the game. However, they are in the game and they aren’t going anywhere. Best to make one’s peace with that and enjoy the game as it is (or find another game one likes as much, where the downsides aren’t as important).

Unless you have word from Anet that Adventures aren’t going anywhere, there is no foundation for this statement. Developers have removed content from MMOs plenty of times. Anet removed the Personality system for instance.

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

For what it’s worth (i.e. not much), I hate adventures — if I wanted to play console games, I’d own, you know, a console game. So I wish ANet had never added them to the game. However, since they are in the game, I decided to give them all a try. And it’s not as hard as the OP suggests. There are guides and tips out there.

So I’d prefer if the OP opened with, “I’m struggling with adventures and they are blocking my completion of collections. Can anyone help me?” Instead, they’ve made a blanket statement about changing the game based on their perception of difficulty.

Considering the thread title, I don’t think the OP is looking for help, he wanted to express his opinion that Adventures shouldn’t be required for collections and should be removed.

That’s exactly my point. Instead of first looking for help to complete their collections, the OP is asking ANet to change the game.

Since Adventures are a solo-only activity, and are not End Game content, there should be no need for help. You should be able to simply play them and complete them. I don’t need hints or outside information to do other events in the game. Why make Adventures so difficult that people need outside help?

Not that I want to do Adventures in the first place. I want to play an RPG, not mini-games. So I agree that no mini-games should be required for content that is not mini-game oriented.

Getting outside help only saves in time like going to Dulfy’s website every LS release saves time. It’s by no means a requirement.

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Faaris.8013:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Some players should change their attitude. Asking devs to change it just be cause they feel not able or too lazy to try and complete it (I mean bronze – for real?) is just lame.

Doesn’t matter how easy or hard it is, and btw. what about Mastery Points? You don’t get any for bronze.

If collections and MPs are tied to content that has nothing to do with an MMO, why not tell the developers to change that? Nobody asked for them to be easier, because people don’t want to do them in the first place. Even if they gave gold just for participation, people could ask for collections to be disconnected from them. If the developer’s management decided that time, energy and money should be spent on creating console mini games because few people like them, that’s their decision. The data about participants they have tell them nothing about the success of those “adventures” because people do them not because they enjoy mini games, they only do them for collections and Mastery Points.

Remove collections and MPs from “adventures” and don’t make them dailies, and then collect data on participiation. My bet is the results would show that the time, energy and money spent on creating them was wasted because only a handful players do them. And then they probably only do them once and never return.

But no, “force” people into doing something that’s no fun for them, and the team can prove how much players like it because everybody does mini games, right?

I didn’t realize there was some unanimous guideline on what is and isn’t part of an MMO.

This game is an “MMORPG”. There are other types of MMOs, but an RPG about the Story. That’s what most people play an RPG for.

Ayrilana.1396:

Any content would drastically see a sharp drop in participation if you removed any incentive to do them such as mastery points or loot. What you’re suggesting would just give false/misleading results.

No one said to remove ANY incentive. Just give them their own incentives, not tied to other content.

And how many other MMORPG’s have elements that are not part of the story side? There are more to games than just the story.

As far as incentives, they said to remove the only ones that they had without replacing them with something else. So yes, in their post, you did essentially say to remove incentives. They argued that removing mastery points would shows that adventures were a waste of money and other resources. If other incentives were added to compensate, as you’re suggesting, then that negates their argument about adventures being a waste.

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

As I’ve said before, I hate adventures; I wish they were never added to the game. However, they are in the game and they aren’t going anywhere. Best to make one’s peace with that and enjoy the game as it is (or find another game one likes as much, where the downsides aren’t as important).

Unless you have word from Anet that Adventures aren’t going anywhere, there is no foundation for this statement. Developers have removed content from MMOs plenty of times. Anet removed the Personality system for instance.

ANet took 2 years to remove the personality system and only did so as part of a larger initiative that made huge changes to leveling; it’s a poor example of the sort of thing that you mean.

But even so, I don’t need word from ANet about Adventures — those who want to complete collections this year (or next) need word that ANet has plans to do something with Adventures. It’s completely unrealistic to imagine that ANet could decouple them from collections (and masteries, since they’d tackle them together) without a year’s worth of lead team: several months to redesign the systems, months to test & rebalance rewards accordingly, time to implement, and a window in the release schedule to launch the change.

In other words, it’s not changing any time soon. Those, like myself, who hate adventurers and want to complete collections have to accept the game as it exists; pretending otherwise is going to lead to intense frustration.

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

For what it’s worth (i.e. not much), I hate adventures — if I wanted to play console games, I’d own, you know, a console game. So I wish ANet had never added them to the game. However, since they are in the game, I decided to give them all a try. And it’s not as hard as the OP suggests. There are guides and tips out there.

So I’d prefer if the OP opened with, “I’m struggling with adventures and they are blocking my completion of collections. Can anyone help me?” Instead, they’ve made a blanket statement about changing the game based on their perception of difficulty.

Considering the thread title, I don’t think the OP is looking for help, he wanted to express his opinion that Adventures shouldn’t be required for collections and should be removed.

That’s exactly my point. Instead of first looking for help to complete their collections, the OP is asking ANet to change the game.

Since Adventures are a solo-only activity, and are not End Game content, there should be no need for help. You should be able to simply play them and complete them. I don’t need hints or outside information to do other events in the game. Why make Adventures so difficult that people need outside help?

Not that I want to do Adventures in the first place. I want to play an RPG, not mini-games. So I agree that no mini-games should be required for content that is not mini-game oriented.

Some people don’t need any hints or tips; some need hints & tips for practically everything. There’s tons of content for which plenty of people haven’t learned all the tricks.

In short, it’s got nothing to do with “end game” versus “solo” content. Hints & tips are for any sort of content, for any sort of player, whenever it’s something outside their comfort zone. Clearly, Adventures are outside the OP’s preferred content, just as dungeons are outside other folks’ preferences and both are needed to finish collections and/or forge shinies.

There’s little point in making any content too easy and little point in making it too difficult, however, there’s no magic balance point in which content is just right for everyone. Adventures are most difficult for those of us who don’t like them by their very nature, including myself and the OP.

In the end, it’s a design decision. I wouldn’t have made the choice, but I can admit that’s my hangup and respect what ANet was trying to do. (Even though I think it wasn’t very successful: too much push back from detractors relative to how many ardent fans — then again, I don’t have any data; that’s just my impression.)

My primary interest in letting my dislike for adventures be known is that I want ANet to be aware of my thoughts for new content going forward. So, I’d prefer either:

• New adventures be made for those players who like mini-games, but that the rewards be intrinsic, like the XP and “free” rare Healix alludes to, rather than extrinsic, like collection requirements.

or

• ANet not add any more adventures to the game.

Frankly, my preference would be the first option, as I have no wish to deny mini-games to those who want them, but if ANet cannot get behind the idea of not linking progression rewards or alternatives to ascended crafting to game content in which I do not get to play my character’s build, then the latter option would be acceptable.

Disclaimer: ANet will do what it wants, but they have made changes to their approach before based on player feedback, so I’m providing mine. I am not claiming that I speak for anyone but myself.

IndigoSundown.5419:

My primary interest in letting my dislike for adventures be known is that I want ANet to be aware of my thoughts for new content going forward. So, I’d prefer either:

• New adventures be made for those players who like mini-games, but that the rewards be intrinsic, like the XP and “free” rare Healix alludes to, rather than extrinsic, like collection requirements.

or

• ANet not add any more adventures to the game.

Frankly, my preference would be the first option, as I have no wish to deny mini-games to those who want them, but if ANet cannot get behind the idea of linking progression rewards or alternatives to ascended crafting to game content in which I do not get to play my character’s build, then the latter option would be acceptable.

Disclaimer: ANet will do what it wants, but they have made changes to their approach before based on player feedback, so I’m providing mine. I am not claiming that I speak for anyone but myself.

What if they had their very own unique skins that you could earn instead of mastery points?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

For what it’s worth (i.e. not much), I hate adventures — if I wanted to play console games, I’d own, you know, a console game. So I wish ANet had never added them to the game. However, since they are in the game, I decided to give them all a try. And it’s not as hard as the OP suggests. There are guides and tips out there.

So I’d prefer if the OP opened with, “I’m struggling with adventures and they are blocking my completion of collections. Can anyone help me?” Instead, they’ve made a blanket statement about changing the game based on their perception of difficulty.

Considering the thread title, I don’t think the OP is looking for help, he wanted to express his opinion that Adventures shouldn’t be required for collections and should be removed.

That’s exactly my point. Instead of first looking for help to complete their collections, the OP is asking ANet to change the game.

Since Adventures are a solo-only activity, and are not End Game content, there should be no need for help. You should be able to simply play them and complete them. I don’t need hints or outside information to do other events in the game. Why make Adventures so difficult that people need outside help?

Not that I want to do Adventures in the first place. I want to play an RPG, not mini-games. So I agree that no mini-games should be required for content that is not mini-game oriented.

Some people don’t need any hints or tips; some need hints & tips for practically everything. There’s tons of content for which plenty of people haven’t learned all the tricks.

In short, it’s got nothing to do with “end game” versus “solo” content. Hints & tips are for any sort of content, for any sort of player, whenever it’s something outside their comfort zone. Clearly, Adventures are outside the OP’s preferred content, just as dungeons are outside other folks’ preferences and both are needed to finish collections and/or forge shinies.

There’s little point in making any content too easy and little point in making it too difficult, however, there’s no magic balance point in which content is just right for everyone. Adventures are most difficult for those of us who don’t like them by their very nature, including myself and the OP.

In the end, it’s a design decision. I wouldn’t have made the choice, but I can admit that’s my hangup and respect what ANet was trying to do. (Even though I think it wasn’t very successful: too much push back from detractors relative to how many ardent fans — then again, I don’t have any data; that’s just my impression.)

The only adventure I looked for help on is Flying Circus, and I didn’t need to, I was more curious if there was a better way to do it. Actually I still may look for help in Sanctum Scramble, because I’m sure there’s shortcuts I’m missing.

Edit: Actually I just remembered, I did look up Fungus Among Us to, to get silver for a collection.

Ayrilana.1396:

IndigoSundown.5419:

My primary interest in letting my dislike for adventures be known is that I want ANet to be aware of my thoughts for new content going forward. So, I’d prefer either:

• New adventures be made for those players who like mini-games, but that the rewards be intrinsic, like the XP and “free” rare Healix alludes to, rather than extrinsic, like collection requirements.

or

• ANet not add any more adventures to the game.

Frankly, my preference would be the first option, as I have no wish to deny mini-games to those who want them, but if ANet cannot get behind the idea of not linking progression rewards or alternatives to ascended crafting to game content in which I do not get to play my character’s build, then the latter option would be acceptable.

Disclaimer: ANet will do what it wants, but they have made changes to their approach before based on player feedback, so I’m providing mine. I am not claiming that I speak for anyone but myself.

What if they had their very own unique skins that you could earn instead of mastery points?

I’d be perfectly fine with that. A skin unique to an adventure would be an intrinsic reward. At that point, it would be no different to any other unique skin attached to specific content, and people would have the choice of whether gaining the skin was worth doing the content.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ayrilana.1396:

IndigoSundown.5419:

My primary interest in letting my dislike for adventures be known is that I want ANet to be aware of my thoughts for new content going forward. So, I’d prefer either:

• New adventures be made for those players who like mini-games, but that the rewards be intrinsic, like the XP and “free” rare Healix alludes to, rather than extrinsic, like collection requirements.

or

• ANet not add any more adventures to the game.

Frankly, my preference would be the first option, as I have no wish to deny mini-games to those who want them, but if ANet cannot get behind the idea of not linking progression rewards or alternatives to ascended crafting to game content in which I do not get to play my character’s build, then the latter option would be acceptable.

Disclaimer: ANet will do what it wants, but they have made changes to their approach before based on player feedback, so I’m providing mine. I am not claiming that I speak for anyone but myself.

What if they had their very own unique skins that you could earn instead of mastery points?

I’d be perfectly fine with that. A skin unique to an adventure would be an intrinsic reward. At that point, it would be no different to any other unique skin attached to specific content, and people would have the choice of whether gaining the skin was worth doing the content.

Agreed.

Ashen.2907:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ayrilana.1396:

IndigoSundown.5419:

My primary interest in letting my dislike for adventures be known is that I want ANet to be aware of my thoughts for new content going forward. So, I’d prefer either:

• New adventures be made for those players who like mini-games, but that the rewards be intrinsic, like the XP and “free” rare Healix alludes to, rather than extrinsic, like collection requirements.

or

• ANet not add any more adventures to the game.

Frankly, my preference would be the first option, as I have no wish to deny mini-games to those who want them, but if ANet cannot get behind the idea of not linking progression rewards or alternatives to ascended crafting to game content in which I do not get to play my character’s build, then the latter option would be acceptable.

Disclaimer: ANet will do what it wants, but they have made changes to their approach before based on player feedback, so I’m providing mine. I am not claiming that I speak for anyone but myself.

What if they had their very own unique skins that you could earn instead of mastery points?

I’d be perfectly fine with that. A skin unique to an adventure would be an intrinsic reward. At that point, it would be no different to any other unique skin attached to specific content, and people would have the choice of whether gaining the skin was worth doing the content.

Agreed.

Holy smokes. Something we can all agree on.

Ayrilana.1396:

What if they had their very own unique skins that you could earn instead of mastery points?

Only a few masteries are actually required, so having points on adventures was always just a bonus, especially now with season 3. Masteries have always been very casual if people simply accepted that they were mostly optional. It was ArenaNet’s mistake for trying to sell them as an alternative level cap instead of what they actually are, which is no different from achievements.

If they moved the points to other solo-able content, it would have been easier, but if they put them on more group content, it would have been far worse. Most people aren’t going to LFG to play through HoT now, whereas the average player should be able to handle most adventures. Personally, I’d expect them to overhaul masteries for the next expansion since it’s such a poor system, but unfortunately, redoing systems was Colin’s thing, whereas MO is about pushing forwards.

Adventures should have never been tied to collections, simply because you should never require solo-only content. There should have been unique skins in the gold boxes to encourage them, but adventures were likely only thrown in as an experiment, so that luxury wasn’t there. At the very least however, there should have been an achievement for completing all of them.

Djinn.9245:

1. How would anyone know that?
2. Most people play an MMO RPG to play an RPG, not to play mini-games.

1. By trying an adventure once.

2. Mini-games are common in RPGs and these could have easily been events; what then? Bugs in the branches for example is collecting food for the Itzel. It’s not a random adventure, it’s the Itzel making their job less boring by making a game out of it – who can collect them the fastest.

Healix.5819:

Djinn.9245:

1. How would anyone know that?
2. Most people play an MMO RPG to play an RPG, not to play mini-games.

1. By trying an adventure once.

So you think that trying an adventure once would magically make someone pay attention to the XP they got and they would somehow know that this amount of XP was much better than the normal amount of XP they got?

Also, for anyone that is not inherently good at these mini-games I disagree that they would be good XP/min as many people fail over and over.

Djinn.9245:

Also, for anyone that is not inherently good at these mini-games I disagree that they would be good XP/min as many people fail over and over.

Yeah, also, who has issues getting XP after level 80 anyway? I usually had maxed the bar before I had enough Mastery Points to get to the next one. I actually spread out the Masteries I bought to be able to use the surplus of XP I had.

Djinn.9245:

2. Most people play an MMO RPG to play an RPG, not to play mini-games.

Yeah, and in THIS RPG, I feel like the pinball in an arcade game, when doing adventures.

Djinn.9245:

Since Adventures are a solo-only activity, and are not End Game content, there should be no need for help. You should be able to simply play them and complete them. I don’t need hints or outside information to do other events in the game. Why make Adventures so difficult that people need outside help?

Not that I want to do Adventures in the first place. I want to play an RPG, not mini-games. So I agree that no mini-games should be required for content that is not mini-game oriented.

There’s no solo-only content in an MMO. An MMO is about community as much as it is about playing the game. In fact, many people have resorted to help from third parties in single player games since the dawn of ages with walkthroughs and whatnots. Of course back then, gamers were actually serious about playing the game and not about arbitrary rewards just passing the obstacles and getting to the end was the reward in itself.

As for your RPG argument, it’s ridiculous. Most achievements in GW2 are minigames and have almost nothing to do with RPG elements. In fact, if you would actually take the whole RPG thing seriously, you’d understand that the collections are side objectives that merely try to make the game last longer by jumping through some arbitrary loops and give you an arbitrary reward at the end. Which in fact aren’t uncommon at all in any RPG to be fair. I remember playing many games of blackjack, shooting galleries and reflecting mini games in RPGs just to get some special reward in the end.

Mini Games are as much part of an RPG as their rewards.

The only problem with Adventures that I have is their name to be honest. They should be called Challenges. Like in GW1. If you overcome them, you have really proven yourself to earn the rewards that are tied to them. And the NPCs could be a bit more like : if you prove yourself here I give you this reward/honor or whatever. But that’s just fluff to most.