Looks like raids are going to be pretty tough. Hard encounters, and on top of it, ascended gear requirements. This is nice, and I’m fine with there being hardcore content at long last.
However, that shouldn’t mean raids should be hardcore-only. Everyone should have the opportunity to experience them, specially if they’re part of the story.
But then they wouldn’t be hardcore anymore!
What? No. There’s something called difficulty levels. We have them at Fractals of the Mist, and pretty much every MMO out there has them for raids. The higher the level, the harder the content, and the better the rewards. Looks pretty right, doesn’kitten
So, why are GW2’s raids getting locked in a single hardcore-only level?
For example, we could have something like this:
But those filthy casuals don’t deserve to touch raids!
Why not? With difficulty levels you still have your challenge, why not let everyone else have theirs too? Since when is keeping everyone else away an indicator of difficulty? That’s some selfish attitude.
But anyway, let’s assume you succeed, and only hardcores get to experience raids. So good, nope? Well, no. Your ideal raiding world will eventually crumble and shatter against the ground, for any of these reasons:
So yeah. If you want a healthy raiding environment for years to come, raids need to be for everyone.
However, that shouldn’t mean raids should be hardcore-only. Everyone should have the opportunity to experience them, specially if they’re part of the story.
Agreed. My biggest concern is experiencing the lore. After Dulfy’s notes said there would be big reveals in the raid wings I asked Bobby and he seemed surprised I thought there would be big story reveals. That’s promising, but I haven’t heard back.
So the raids are :
1. Gear gated
2. Mastery gated
3. Skill gated
Thank god ANet decided to make them easier to access as you do not need any attunements…
lol
They aren’t gear gated because you can attempt it and possibly beat it without X gear.
She said SHOULD, not MUST. Reading is essential.
They aren’t gear gated because you can attempt it and possibly beat it without X gear.
She said SHOULD, not MUST. Reading is essential.
Yeah sure, it is like:
You should not kill people.
I kill people.
I get arrested and tell them you said should not must.
Playing semantics will not help, the raids are designed around ascended gear and I am fairly sure that the raid mastery will push ascended gear way further away from exotic as we see it now.
We will see on the weekend…
So the raids are :
1. Gear gated
2. Mastery gated
3. Skill gatedThank god ANet decided to make them easier to access as you do not need any attunements…
lol
Looks like we will get money gate too. To start raid run you will need a commander tag, if Anet will not change current players amount in a party, or create a special party type for raids.
But i am not sure about that for now.
Looks like we will get money gate too. To start raid run you will need a commander tag, if Anet will not change current players amount in a party, or create a special party type for raids.
But i am not sure about that for now.
“Squads are necessary to enter raids, so don’t worry—if you don’t have access to a commander tag, you’ll still be able to create a leaderless, raid-ready, invite-only squad of 10 players.”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-enhanced-squad-ui/
Looks like we will get money gate too. To start raid run you will need a commander tag, if Anet will not change current players amount in a party, or create a special party type for raids.
But i am not sure about that for now.“Squads are necessary to enter raids, so don’t worry—if you don’t have access to a commander tag, you’ll still be able to create a leaderless, raid-ready, invite-only squad of 10 players.”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-enhanced-squad-ui/
Ok, ok, sorry. missunderstanding.
But it is not ok too. We could not be able to create current LFG style PUG groups. It is just bad.
Why to use it like current LFG will need a 300g?
(edited by White Hunter.3416)
LOL if you think anet is gonna spend time and resources creating NEW balances/mechanics for raids….
raids are for EVERYONE, so long as they are willing to work for it and meet the requirements (which aren’t unreasonable at all). NO ONE IS STOPPING YOU.
The only one is YOURSELF. So its 100% YOUR PROBLEM if you don’t like the current system
terrible idea. Luckily anet isn’t following this logic….
The reward structure right now for raids is
1) Raid exclusive minis and skins
2) Ascended chests
3) Legendary-track related mats
What out of those rewards would you give players for completing the “lower difficulty”? If you give any of those to the people who are doing the easier content, then why would anybody do the harder version?
I’m not so sure it’s a good idea to design content around a small community. Even WoW has raid lite (as I understand it) so that non hard core players can experience it. A lower level difficulty, low reward raid might be worth looking into. Maybe a raid lite could give dungeon tokens so that people could buy dungeon exotics to salvage or mystic forge.
I stopped playing WoW in 2008, but they managed to get raids done with different difficulty levels and rewards back then.
Now, 7 years later, ANet has to overcome this huge and monumental, totally unique problem to open raids to both hardcore players and the casual crowd but can’t find a way it seems.
At least one member of the ANet team should have played WoW, so they could skip on the first few years of abysmal raid elitism and casual bashing.
Ah, who am I kidding, if someone can implement something as old and common as raids wrong, I am sure ANet is our best bet…
(edited by Kaiyanwan.8521)
I’m curious as to whether whatever other content that will come with HoT will be enough to satiate those who are going to be excluded from raid content, assuming that ANet has designed them for Asc. stats and they are tuned to also require a high level of skill.
The reward structure right now for raids is
1) Raid exclusive minis and skins
2) Ascended chests
3) Legendary-track related matsWhat out of those rewards would you give players for completing the “lower difficulty”? If you give any of those to the people who are doing the easier content, then why would anybody do the harder version?
a chance for ascended chests.
some champ loot bags and a chest of ascended crafting mats.
the lower difficulty would be a way of seeing the lore and getting gear for the harder raid with all the shinies, the reward is being able to actually see the story
The reward structure right now for raids is
1) Raid exclusive minis and skins
2) Ascended chests
3) Legendary-track related matsWhat out of those rewards would you give players for completing the “lower difficulty”? If you give any of those to the people who are doing the easier content, then why would anybody do the harder version?
a chance for ascended chests.
some champ loot bags and a chest of ascended crafting mats.the lower difficulty would be a way of seeing the lore and getting gear for the harder raid with all the shinies, the reward is being able to actually see the story
So you want to get a higher chance at the best gear in the game and free champion bags for doing the “story version”?
lol
lets just make raids another weekly tequatl, sounds like what everybody has been asking for
This is literally a case of the casual majority opressing the hardcore minority. You guys are so not fair. You want everything served with minimal efforts. This is the problem with MMOs these days. Players think they deserve everyting.
The elitism in this thread is depressing.
Imagine only a few pro guilds could play inside Eternal Battlegrounds. Imagine only a few top players could play in Legacy of the Foefire. Imagine Super Adventure Box had no baby mode and no continue coins. Imagine only players with at least 20k achievement points could get into new zones.
That’s what you are asking for. To keep “the rest of the scum” outside your special snowflake palace.
In the long run, time will give everyone what they deserve.
The elitism in this thread is depressing.
Imagine only a few pro guilds could play inside Eternal Battlegrounds. Imagine only a few top players could play in Legacy of the Foefire. Imagine Super Adventure Box had no baby mode and no continue coins. Imagine only players with at least 20k achievement points could get into new zones.
That’s what you are asking for. To keep “the rest of the scum” outside your special snowflake palace.
In the long run, time will give everyone what they deserve.
In the long run (since GW2 launched) there has been nothing of this sort (except high lvl fractal) so what exactly are you whining about???
99% of the game is your special snowflake already.
Raids are essentially a bigger twist on fractals – requiring ascended gear and coordinated group play and a bigger group – Thats it. how is that some massive , restrictive wall, that you can’t push through.
While I hate elitism , extreme casualism is just as toxic, if not, more.
99% of the game catered to you isn’t enough. Seems anet has to make sure its 100% to satisfy you huh.
The elitism in this thread is depressing.
Imagine only a few pro guilds could play inside Eternal Battlegrounds. Imagine only a few top players could play in Legacy of the Foefire. Imagine Super Adventure Box had no baby mode and no continue coins. Imagine only players with at least 20k achievement points could get into new zones.
That’s what you are asking for. To keep “the rest of the scum” outside your special snowflake palace.
In the long run, time will give everyone what they deserve.
Indeed.
The game seems to be developing in directions I do not like, embracing the things that made me stay away from mmos for a long time. Oh well, time will tell I suppose.
The elitism in this thread is depressing.
Imagine only a few pro guilds could play inside Eternal Battlegrounds. Imagine only a few top players could play in Legacy of the Foefire. Imagine Super Adventure Box had no baby mode and no continue coins. Imagine only players with at least 20k achievement points could get into new zones.
That’s what you are asking for. To keep “the rest of the scum” outside your special snowflake palace.
In the long run, time will give everyone what they deserve.
In the long run (since GW2 launched) there has been nothing of this sort (except high lvl fractal) so what exactly are you whining about???
99% of the game is your special snowflake already.
Raids are essentially a bigger twist on fractals – requiring ascended gear and coordinated group play and a bigger group – Thats it. how is that some massive , restrictive wall, that you can’t push through.
While I hate elitism , extreme casualism is just as toxic, if not, more.
99% of the game catered to you isn’t enough. Seems anet has to make sure its 100% to satisfy you huh.
An easy mode for raids wouldn’t affect hard mode raids in any way.
Yet you don’t want it, and want to force everyone out.
This doesn’t happen in any other mode of the entire game. None. Yet you want raids to be only for you.
I think it’s pretty clear who’s the special snowflake here.
PS: You compare it to fractals? Let me laugh. FotM are the most accesible content of the game, because they have difficulty levels.
But I guess farming braindead content for the best gear really requires skill!
(edited by Lonami.2987)
The elitism in this thread is depressing.
Imagine only a few pro guilds could play inside Eternal Battlegrounds. Imagine only a few top players could play in Legacy of the Foefire. Imagine Super Adventure Box had no baby mode and no continue coins. Imagine only players with at least 20k achievement points could get into new zones.
That’s what you are asking for. To keep “the rest of the scum” outside your special snowflake palace.
In the long run, time will give everyone what they deserve.
In the long run (since GW2 launched) there has been nothing of this sort (except high lvl fractal) so what exactly are you whining about???
99% of the game is your special snowflake already.
Raids are essentially a bigger twist on fractals – requiring ascended gear and coordinated group play and a bigger group – Thats it. how is that some massive , restrictive wall, that you can’t push through.
While I hate elitism , extreme casualism is just as toxic, if not, more.
99% of the game catered to you isn’t enough. Seems anet has to make sure its 100% to satisfy you huh.An easy mode for raids wouldn’t affect hard mode raids in any way.
Yet you don’t want it, and want to force everyone out.
This doesn’t happen in any other mode of the entire game. None. Yet you want raids to be only for you.
I think it’s pretty clear who’s the special snowflake here.
PS: You compare it to fractals? Let me laugh. FotM are the most accesible content of the game, because they have difficulty levels.
But I guess farming braindead content for the best gear really requires skill!
High level fractals 40+ require more than average gear… I wasn’t talking about the basic levels of fractals. You aren’t completeing level fractal 50 without ascended…period.
If anet wants to add easy mode they would but they know that means making the rewards different. If they make hard mode rewards better than easy mode, than guess what, you will be right back here whining and complaining.
You already have easy mode – its coming in 4 maps with 3 different levels per map…. its called open world content.
No one is blocking passage for you to try the raid. You can simply go in there and play/experiment it.
If you can’t beat it, get better and try again. This is the concept of it, just don’t think it will be : Welcome – Kill this guy pressing 1.
So a lot of people mentioned WoW for comparison. Did anyone forget that WoW raids start hardcore and get ‘easier’ and ‘easier options’ (LFR) as time passes. Maybe ArenaNet plans to do similar. Make it hardcore only for the first x number of months then open up an easier mode. Given the past history, if people want it to happen, ArenaNet tend to make it happen.
The elitism in this thread is depressing.
Imagine only a few pro guilds could play inside Eternal Battlegrounds. Imagine only a few top players could play in Legacy of the Foefire. Imagine Super Adventure Box had no baby mode and no continue coins. Imagine only players with at least 20k achievement points could get into new zones.
That’s what you are asking for. To keep “the rest of the scum” outside your special snowflake palace.
In the long run, time will give everyone what they deserve.
In the long run (since GW2 launched) there has been nothing of this sort (except high lvl fractal) so what exactly are you whining about???
99% of the game is your special snowflake already.
Raids are essentially a bigger twist on fractals – requiring ascended gear and coordinated group play and a bigger group – Thats it. how is that some massive , restrictive wall, that you can’t push through.
While I hate elitism , extreme casualism is just as toxic, if not, more.
99% of the game catered to you isn’t enough. Seems anet has to make sure its 100% to satisfy you huh.An easy mode for raids wouldn’t affect hard mode raids in any way.
Yet you don’t want it, and want to force everyone out.
This doesn’t happen in any other mode of the entire game. None. Yet you want raids to be only for you.
I think it’s pretty clear who’s the special snowflake here.
PS: You compare it to fractals? Let me laugh. FotM are the most accesible content of the game, because they have difficulty levels.
But I guess farming braindead content for the best gear really requires skill!
Who is forcing you out of raids? Anet? The players? An invisible wall is blocking you from entering in there and trying? I don’t think so, if you can’t do raids, you only have yourself to blame, not anyone else.
While i wouldn’t be against a light version for raids; and since you brought up fractals, i would like the rewards to be just as good as a fractal reward level 1 then. This means: no exclusive skins or ascended gear. It would be called practice mode, a story focused instance with the usual blue and greens. That would be the only fair way of doing this without taking out the whole point and prestige of the original intent of raids.
It is just hard to understand, why play games at all if you just want everything in a silver platter? Why bother designing a whole complex instance if all you want is just go in there, press 1 and collect loot? Let’s just save everyone time, put a quaggan in there who will hug you and give you a precursor, while saying you are the best player in the world.
You forgot to mention the spent resources of Anet to create those 10 tiers of raiding you suggest..
Also good player with exotic >>>> bad player with ascended so it isn’t really gear locked. Its an aspiration that the raid will have its final boss tuned for Ascended, which seems totally reasonable because you’ll be a dedicated raider to get that far (meanng you’ll be using Ascended anyway).
Raids will have hard requirements and soft requirements – gear has always been a soft requirement (except with agony) – WoW world firsts are not achieved in the BiS gear. Skill will still trump gear and people need to stop freaking out about it.
So the raids are :
1. Gear gated
2. Mastery gated
3. Skill gatedThank god ANet decided to make them easier to access as you do not need any attunements…
lol
1. Nope, ascended is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED, not REQUIRED
2. Yes, but that’s okay, it just adds more fun mechanic to it.
3. Yes <- this is the biggest factor IMHO, a lot of people will fail here.
I’m willing to bet the raids will be do able without ascended gear or masteries in the beginning. As the start expanding on it might be more difficult but we will see, myself and friends will most likely start running them without masteries and in Exotic gear just to see what we can do.
Ok…just be aware that once you start to make this content ‘open to everyone!!!1!’, that you can easily alienate the audience this was originally designed for.
I’m a relatively casual player due to my time constraints to play, but I want difficult content, which is why I was stoked for raids, but if this stuff becomes too available, it loses it’s sense of difficulty, even if you can just switch on a hard mode.
For example, here’s the moment I decided I was going to quit WoW:
I had been playing WoW for years and when Cataclysm came out, I was talked into doing the new Deathwing raid with the Looking For Raid tool, which had a dumbed down difficulty to make the content ‘accessible’. When I ran it, the mess of a pug cleared everything. I killed Deathwing himself with little more than tab targetting and the ability to form a mob of players.
This killed all desire to return because even when I did the raid again on the hard mode, I just couldn’t take any of the content seriously. The fact that the whole difficult raid encounter was being cleared by players who didn’t encounter any difficulty just took away any legitimacy from the encounter.
I’m asking ArenaNet: Keep this as difficult content ONLY. Make this accessible to everyone and you’ll kill it for the dedicated raiders.
Ascended is “required” for raids in the same sense that Exotic armor is “required” for dungeon paths. Namely it isn’t required, but would make things easier.
I think there are a lot of people that need to work on reading comprehension.
I know exactly what is happening with this misinformation:
Someone who is already highly critical of everything Anet does with GW2 read that Ascended armor is recommended for the hardest encounters (I mean why wouldn’t they recommend the highest stat armor for the hardest content?) This person, with a clear axe to grind, paraphrases on the forums that Ascended armor is required with a “source” link that nobody seems to actually want to click to read.
Then sympathizers to the Anet haters group read the post, assume fact (I mean they posted a link to source! So their summary MUST be correct!) and reiterate it in responses and other threads. From here people just jumping into the forums start reading, and all of the discussion on the threads seem to indicate its a requirement, so that clearly must be true, so they think its fact as well.
Scattered through each page is someone who actually read the link making clarifying posts that get glossed over and/or ignored and the misinformation continues.
Gotta love the internet.
Ok…just be aware that once you start to make this content ‘open to everyone!!!1!’, that you can easily alienate the audience this was originally designed for.
I’m a relatively casual player due to my time constraints to play, but I want difficult content, which is why I was stoked for raids, but if this stuff becomes too available, it loses it’s sense of difficulty, even if you can just switch on a hard mode.
For example, here’s the moment I decided I was going to quit WoW:
I had been playing WoW for years and when Cataclysm came out, I was talked into doing the new Deathwing raid with the Looking For Raid tool, which had a dumbed down difficulty to make the content ‘accessible’. When I ran it, the mess of a pug cleared everything. I killed Deathwing himself with little more than tab targetting and the ability to form a mob of players.This killed all desire to return because even when I did the raid again on the hard mode, I just couldn’t take any of the content seriously. The fact that the whole difficult raid encounter was being cleared by players who didn’t encounter any difficulty just took away any legitimacy from the encounter.
I’m asking ArenaNet: Keep this as difficult content ONLY. Make this accessible to everyone and you’ll kill it for the dedicated raiders.
I agree, make them difficult, I don’t even PvE at all in this game because its boring. I’m also more casual now adays because of work and family, don’t make your raids a joke like your dungeons are, its not fun. I don’t want to be able to put on Netflix and semi pay attention to what’s going on because there’s no danger of wiping. I want to be able to enjoy more than just WvW, Fractals are monotonous even with difficulty increase, questing (or whatever you call it in GW2) is about as fun as a swimming in razor blades nude. Don’t cater to the lazy, cater to those who are looking to expand their experience in this game.
Everyone should have the opportunity to experience them, specially if they’re part of the story.
I don’t agree.
I think the game can and probably should include limited amounts of content that not everyone can enjoy. Currently, this already includes the seasonal JPs, fractals, SAB (well, when it was in the game), and even dungeons (yes, Virginia, there are people who can’t manage dungeons without a lot of help).
Should ANet provide other ways for people to experience parts of the story? Yeah, that would make sense. I don’t think that means they need to create multiple levels of difficulty for something designed to be truly challenging.
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