Guild Wars 2

So let me get this straight, ANet is taking away potential Open World Content by sectioning off World Map sections into raids which are blocked off by a high skill ceiling; I see something seriously wrong with this.

I wasn’t happy to begin with that there might be people prohibited from Raiding because of a Gear Check when Colin clearly stated in the Raid intro presentation that there would be no barrier for entry. So now we’re not only supposed to invest half a thousand plus gold into crafting ascended armor to raid, we’re also time gated behind the crafting cd’s, and now after months of crafting we can only access cordoned off World Map chunks if we’re part of an organized raiding team regardless of any real life circumstances that would prevent us from joining a raiding guild.

Hey ANet, I started playing GW2 years ago because I work nights, and I never have a set schedule, at least in your original game I had the whole open world to enjoy massive events in Orr, Maguma Wastes, World Bosses; but now apparently chunks of the actual open world are going to be exclusive to people that have less life restrictions.

This seems to be confirmed in a Wooden Potatoes video.

PS Can I get a partial refund since it looks like you’re cutting me off of at least 20% of what should be open world, since apparently it stares you right in the face when you hit M for Map?

PSS No one’s remotely bothered by this?

They can always move it up in the mists or underground or even some other spot if they need that particular piece of real estate.

Here is a map of the world with the areas covered by Guild Wars 1. The top square is where we are now, and the Guild Wars 1 map is larger than ours just for that part. I think we have a bit more to go before we run out of map space.

I think you’re missing the point, the open world was supposed to be for casuals, Meta Heads had their own fiefdom in the instanced areas and now they are taking away from the open world.

I can’t even begin to address how poorly thought out this thread is. Space being taken up on an imaginary map is literally meaningless. This means nothing in terms of what they can or can’t add in future releases.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

I think you’re missing the point, the open world was supposed to be for casuals, Meta Heads had their own fiefdom in the instanced areas and now they are taking away from the open world.

It’s not open world just because it’s on the world map. Arah is actually on the normal world map too (but not visible) so why don’t you cry over that?

Also it’s not taking away any space. The world is HUGE. I don’t think it will ever be full and even if that somehow happens after 562 expansions they could even introduce a whole new planet somehow. I mean we can already teleport around the map, so why not to another planet, who knows what we have seen after so many expansions.

People have got to stop complaining about this, it’s really self-centered. They want to get people who want challenging content more excited about the game – they have to create that content to get those people in. Those people like restrictions like gear and they like the requirement of a well coordinated group. If you don’t, I’m sorry, enjoy the rest of it. That’s all there is to it. They’re not going to build their game exactly the way that you and people like you want, they’re going to build it to get the most players and to please the most players. They’re not interested in making you feel left out anymore than they are people who can raid, thus they put in things for players like you too. What you want is for ALL of the content to be made just to your standards, and not any other players. Don’t pretend that real estate in the game is somehow limited either. There’s still the Crystal Desert, there’s still Cantha, and there’s the literally unlimited Mists and whole other worlds. The idea that your this infuriated because not every single feature or bit of content in the expac is something you want just blows my mind, especially if you do play casually in which case you’ll probably never experience all of the content or will experience it much slower than everyone else anyway.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

I think you’re missing the point, the open world was supposed to be for casuals, Meta Heads had their own fiefdom in the instanced areas and now they are taking away from the open world.

The open world was supposed to be for casuals? You got a source for that, or is it something you just decided and then declared it to be true? By the way. Guild Wars 1 had some of their PvP maps right on the open world. No one complained about it taking up casual’s space.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

I think you’re missing the point, the open world was supposed to be for casuals, Meta Heads had their own fiefdom in the instanced areas and now they are taking away from the open world.

The open world was supposed to be for casuals? You got a source for that, or is it something you just decided and then declared it to be true? By the way. Guild Wars 1 had some of their PvP maps right on the open world. No one complained about it taking up casual’s space.

GW1 and GW2 are separate games.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

I think you’re missing the point, the open world was supposed to be for casuals, Meta Heads had their own fiefdom in the instanced areas and now they are taking away from the open world.

The open world was supposed to be for casuals? You got a source for that, or is it something you just decided and then declared it to be true? By the way. Guild Wars 1 had some of their PvP maps right on the open world. No one complained about it taking up casual’s space.

GW1 and GW2 are separate games.

By the same company. Same world. Same lore, as a pre to this game.

Where is the source for the open world was supposed to be casuals?

3 years of base game set the precedent.

Isarii.2804:

I can’t even begin to address how poorly thought out this thread is. Space being taken up on an imaginary map is literally meaningless. This means nothing in terms of what they can or can’t add in future releases.

“They’re taking up world space on a map that doesn’t actually exist and can change at any moment to suit their needs. I want a refund!”

laughs

Oldirtbeard.9834:

3 years of base game set the precedent.

Hahahahaha. Okay.

Necros, you guys will always suck in PvE – 3 years of base game set the precedent.

Wow.

Is there literally no end to what players will complain about?

Two things:

- Stop spreading the propaganda that raids will require a gear-check to enter, the Vale Guardian in the Beta can be reached without any Masteries and there is a comfortable amount of buffer on its enrage timer with the ‘First Beta Kill’ posted on these same forums to do it in full exotics. Much like the rest of Heart of Thorns you will be progressing with Masteries and the continued acquisition of Ascended Gear which supports your efforts to explore the rest of the Raid Content. Also the Arah Dungeon if you did not know takes up the majority of Orr in the Open world.

- Do you really know how big Tyria is? To even such you are losing ‘chunks’ of map content is a gross overestimate of what’s to come, even moreso when the full map isn’t even available yet.

No one is bothered by this, and some of us are disgusted by this thread.

I don’t much care that they’re taking up space on the world map as a rule, since we’re never going to get all of it anyway.
I do care when historical locations (any area from GW1) or lore-relevant places we’ve been waiting to see (Isles of Janthir) are wasted in a raid map.

Though even still, I care less than I should, because I doubt any of them would be done justice anyway.

Neox.3497:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

3 years of base game set the precedent.

Hahahahaha. Okay.

Necros, you guys will always suck in PvE – 3 years of base game set the precedent.

You’ve made a good point.

Pathetic. At what lengths will you, anti-raiding people, get before giving up? How low have you stooped in order to push this propaganda. Stop spreading misinformation, false claims and over-exaggerated drama, you extremist!

So then I guess raids are PUGable with a mix of Exotic/Ascended gear, if so then I am misinformed.

You’re not getting any partial refund because
1) we are getting 4 maps. that raid area is not part of the 4 maps we are getting, but outside of it.
2) the area is most certainly not 20% of the world left to be explored. It’s TINY compared to the remainder of the map.
3) this thread is ridiculous.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

So then I guess raids are PUGable with a mix of Exotic/Ascended gear, if so then I am misinformed.

I think this was stated during twitchcon that you CAN PUG the raids if you have a people with good coordination or something.

So i would say, yes it is puggable – but still remains the same chance to wipe as it does in any dungeon now days.

Plus it should be able to do it in exotic, i know it’s been said that ascended SHOULD (note SHOULD is not same thing as REQUIRED or NEEDED but more like expected) be used for later raid bosses.

But it should not matter that much, sure you can get the upper hand with a 5% stat boost with ascended (plus the extra stats if you got stat infusions) which might contribute that little extra to the raid.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

PSS No one’s remotely bothered by this?

Maybe that should be telling you something…

I really have trouble understanding this community.

I remember distinctly people complaining about not enough challenging content to be solved for small to mid sized groups and how boring lvl80 PvE in general is.

Anet adds raids à 2 grps which need a fair amount of coordination and equipment – kinda exactly what was “missing” according to a not really small part of gw2 community.

And now people are complaining about how raids take away time and space from open-world-solo-button-smashing farm content.

Not only that complaining about how instanced areas take away “space” on open-world-maps is really rather pointless in a video game, it also smacks of childish selfishness.

Personally Im probably not really gonna do much of raiding anyway since its not my cup of tea, but still, I think its really admirable how Anet tries to provide diverse content for its playerbase and all within the confines of their designed lore.
After all, they could have just as easily slapped on a new zone, divided it in a handful of maps and put Pandas wearing straw hats on it to be done with it.

You can enter the raid instance even with exotic gears. ANet also make sure you can enter it without commander tag, which cost 300 gold. However, whether you can finish the end boss will depend on your individual skills and team work.

Once people find out how to beat it, it will become another farming area as the dungeons. If you are not good enough you probably will be kicked or blocked by the others who speed run the raid rather than the gate set by ANet.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

So let me get this straight, ANet is taking away potential Open World Content by sectioning off World Map sections into raids which are blocked off by a high skill ceiling; I see something seriously wrong with this.

… snip …

PSS No one’s remotely bothered by this?

The elite areas (e.g., Underworld, Fissure of Woe) in the original GW game did not take up space on the world map. However, the mission areas did. Missions were not raids, and not gated-by-skill content. In Prophecies, these story mission areas were only used for missions. They took up map space, just as it seems the raid areas do. In Factions, most (some?) of the story mission areas did double duty as explorable areas (accessible from the outpost doing the mission left you in).

ANet might or might not do something similar in GW2 as they did in Factions. I suppose it depends on the lore behind the raid areas whether ANet could or would offer these areas as explorable areas in addition to being raid areas. Obviously, were they to do so, the areas would be without any of the raid bosses, rewards, etc.).

Regardless, ANet is not going to run out of area on the Tyria world map for a long time, even if raid areas never get opened to non-raiding players. The GW map of Tyria didn’t use all of the terrain available. The GW2 Tyria map has plenty of space available. I also expect that when it comes time to tackle Primordius, we’re going to find (again) that there are massive caverns below Tyria, which will provide even more space to adventure in.

We players purchased a license to experience the game ANet provides for us. Lore is important to them, and placing the raid areas on the map allows them to integrate the lore behind the raid into the overall lore for the game. That’s part of the world they’re providing. We have the option to use all of what they offer, or only the parts of it that please us. We do not have a proprietary claim on the world map, nor do we have any right to believe that the entire map has to support our play preferences.

So, no, I’m not even remotely bothered.

I don’t mind, so long as the Raid content isn’t scaled to the point that not everyone can just get in there and do it. I mean, raids aren’t really my thing, but if I can just get in there and explore and experience the story of it, that’s well enough. It’s not like they don’t have plenty of map to explore, and plenty of map that isn’t even on the map.

The only way they could botch this up is if they made the raid so hard that many players wouldn’t even be able to clear it.

I remember distinctly people complaining about not enough challenging content to be solved for small to mid sized groups and how boring lvl80 PvE in general is.

Those were different people than the ones currently complaining. The people you’re talking about are mostly happy about some of the recent changes, and are trying to shut up everyone else.

Not going to waste my time since alot of this is misinformed. But there is ALOT left to explore if you have played Guild Wars you would be excited they might move living world towards Cantha, Elona, Eye of the North, Fire Island Chain, and the Crystal desert just off the top my head without even thinking about it. Having raids take up small parts isnt a big deal.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

PS Can I get a partial refund since it looks like you’re cutting me off of at least 20% of what should be open world, since apparently it stares you right in the face when you hit M for Map?

PSS No one’s remotely bothered by this?

Eh… why would we be … bothered by this?

Overreaction much? It’s a digital map. Make-belief. Made up by devs for the purpose of creating a game. For all I care it could be be filled with pink giant bunnies in multiple areas, why would it make a difference?

Also… you are being cut off of 20% of the map… how exactly? You mean a zone you apparently don’t want to visit being where otherwise there’d be nothing at all is really hurting you? Maybe an option to hide zone details from the map then, so you don’t feel excluded?

Oldirtbeard.9834:

3 years of base game set the precedent.

Ah, better to keep doing inferior things because “’we’ve always done it this way!”.

Appeal to tradition

You know, I was upset for maybe 5 minutes, good map space wasted on that crap!

But I thought about it, and one of my complaints has been new content that never appears on the map, its imaginary space. I want new content to be part of the world map, I want to feel like we’re exploring the world, even if parts of it are raids that I’ll never be able to play containing rewards I’ll never get because its all locked gear checks and casual filth hating elitists.
But even so, I’m glad its on the world map, even if the raid’s map looks horribly hokey in a cheesy “I’m a video game zone layout!” kind of way, that’s actually the only thing that bothers me.

So no, aside from looking incredibly lame as an area its presence on the world map doesn’t bother me. And in fact, its absence would have bothered me far more.

I’m fine with raids being part of the new map but i think they should have some storyline inside those areas that aren’t raids. They stated the raids that will be added take place after HoT story so why not make those areas part of the personal storyline also. This way those that do raids can see the layout before going on a raid and maybe planning ahead.

Silvercyclone.1462:

I’m fine with raids being part of the new map but i think they should have some storyline inside those areas that aren’t raids. They stated the raids that will be added take place after HoT story so why not make those areas part of the personal storyline also. This way those that do raids can see the layout before going on a raid and maybe planning ahead.

Or a boss free option, so people can go in to to see what it looks like inside and speak to the NPCs and see whatever story content it has.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

So let me get this straight, ANet is taking away potential Open World Content by sectioning off World Map sections into raids which are blocked off by a high skill ceiling; I see something seriously wrong with this.

You don’t have it straight. ANet is not taking away any potential Open World Content.

If it ever gets to the point where they are running out of map space, they can use the same longitude/latitude used by Raids to also have open world content.

Hang on, you think that this Raid’s position being in the World Map has removed something from you? Lets play this out… Raids get put into another dimension and so not on the World Map, what is in the location they stood? NOTHING. Oh look you haven’t lost anything.

If you think they have removed potential building space for the open world then you clearly have no clue how large Tyria is (psst push M and look).

I am ASTOUNDED you wrote this and asking for 20% refund is just hilarious.

This has got to be a troll post…

Like really? raids getting a small portion of the entire map is making you mad??? lol wow…

As if the 4 NEW maps with 3 LAYERS each isn’t enough ??

You realize more open world maps will still be added right and they will most likely be bigger than an extra raid portion that comes a couple times a year…?

Oh and who said anet couldn’t add more map space ?

this is a hysterical complaint…..

There is literally no diference between the space taken up on the world map or in an instance. They simply decided that this particular instance isn’t under ground, so they left the map on the world map.

The idea that it’s somehow “taking away” from potential open world zones is ludicrous. Do you have any idea how big the global map of tyria is compared to the currently playable portion?

It is highly unlikely that every section of every landmass will ever be playable, and even then… it’s a video game. They can simply invent more land mass.

It isn’t as if imaginary terrain in an imaginary universe is some sort of finite resource. This is the most ridiculous logic I’ve yet encountered in these forums.

Since it’s computer space, they don’t even have to move it. A “casual” map and the raid map can be on the same map area. They are 2 separate instances with different content. One portal can lead to a map and the other to the raid. The map is only for us to look at, since we like to see things like that. Its not how it actually is inside the computer. It’s not a real, physical thing that takes up real space.

Apparently my opinion isn’t popular, oh well, hasn’t changed my mind any; thanks for all the free bumps though at least you’re all good for that if nothing else.

The funny thing is all these toxic responses just make the community look bad so great job, you’ve made this look like a post on a WoW forum.

To the handful that have posted and get what I’m saying I appreciate the input over the back ground white noise providing the free bumps, even if you guys don’t see eye to eye at least you have the decency to talk to me with respect.

Isarii.2804:

I can’t even begin to address how poorly thought out this thread is. Space being taken up on an imaginary map is literally meaningless. This means nothing in terms of what they can or can’t add in future releases.

This. And if they REALLY need to add more space they could always add a higher or lower level to the current maps like they have done with the verdant brink. I see no problem with using world map area to accommodate the raids, same as I see no problem with it taking another 40 years to fill the world map after another 10 expansions.

If this is your biggest concern with the expansion I would give ANet a big old +1.

Refer to my post above yours.

I really like that they are using raids as visible map places. I like that the map’s terrain puzzles together with the world of Tyria instead of being some random big spot that has a less immersive marker of what/where it is. I don’t think it means less content in the future. On the contrary, I think it means a more interactive world of physical places. Perhaps even, if later down the line the raids become obsolete (such as killing a dragon for a few years), they can use the maps for other reasons as well.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Apparently my opinion isn’t popular, oh well, hasn’t changed my mind any; thanks for all the free bumps though at least you’re all good for that if nothing else.

The funny thing is all these toxic responses just make the community look bad so great job, you’ve made this look like a post on a WoW forum.

To the handful that have posted and get what I’m saying I appreciate the input over the back ground white noise providing the free bumps, even if you guys don’t see eye to eye at least you have the decency to talk to me with respect.

hmm, after reading through this thread, I finally get the meaning of toxic (not being a native speaker, I am always eager to expand my understanding of the English language). So it means not agreeing with you. Thanks.

Not agreeing with you and pointing out where your notions are illogical when talking about numbers inside a computer or are something you personally thought up and decided was what ANet meant isn’t toxic. It’s pointing out the truth.

ANet never said the maps were for casuals only and having a map for raids doesn’t stop that area also being used for regular maps. Since they are only numbers in a computer they can overlay the same spot. If ANet decides that tiny spot on the world map needs a player map, they can put one there too.