Guild Wars 2

Windsagio.1340:

you guys keep overselling the no more stacking thing. It’s not like using LOS to control an enemy’s position isn’t a thing.

“You guys” keep bringing up stacking as though it was some EZ mode exploit. Whenever someone says stacking and exploit in the same breath forgive us for being compelled to correct their ignorance.

NikeEU.7690:

Windsagio.1340:

you guys keep overselling the no more stacking thing. It’s not like using LOS to control an enemy’s position isn’t a thing.

“You guys” keep bringing up stacking as though it was some EZ mode exploit. Whenever someone says stacking and exploit in the same breath forgive us for being compelled to correct their ignorance.

I didn’t click back, didn’t it come up out of the blue this time?

A countermeme that’s just as inaccurate as the base meme isn’t a great selling point, I don’t think. Saying stacking is EZ MODE REQUIRED PLAY is not much more silly than saying “NOBODY STACKS EVER”. They’re both inaccurate.

I think it bugs me (enough for the OT diversion) because it’s symptomatic of the problem. Defining the narrative in the way you find most flattering (you being in this case either side) feels like a much more important goal to folks than discussing the issue.

cranos.5913:

Windsagio.1340:

Unless you run with a group (and somewhat depending on your class) it can be really hard to get a full pickup group for a high fractal or Arah now (although in fractals I honestly think that’s one of the advantages of swamp-rolling, anything in there can be started easily with a not-full group),

Now, you have to fill 9 slots to pug that hard new content instead of filling 4. This doesnt’ impact people in organized dungeoneering guilds, but it’s a HUGE barrier of entry to people that are pugging — just getting the group going will be a pain then. That’s part of the logistical challenge I was trying to get at with point 2.

I think this is both a positive and a negative point though. PvE guilds have been complaining there’s nothing in game you need a guild for, that it’s hard to keep members because there’s no focus as opposed to WvW oriented guilds. So finally, there would be something a guild is useful for in pve aside from chatting and getting a mf buff.

Considering the CDI was called guild raids, there’s even a good chance these raids would use the guild mission system. If that’s the case, only guilds could complete them in the first place.

I mght’ve said it, I think that’s the way you might get raids, through the enhanced guild system, and guild-specific. I go back and forth on that one though, exclusive content seems to be against their base precepts.

wtb raids. thank you. – the community

Windsagio.1340:

cranos.5913:

Windsagio.1340:

Unless you run with a group (and somewhat depending on your class) it can be really hard to get a full pickup group for a high fractal or Arah now (although in fractals I honestly think that’s one of the advantages of swamp-rolling, anything in there can be started easily with a not-full group),

Now, you have to fill 9 slots to pug that hard new content instead of filling 4. This doesnt’ impact people in organized dungeoneering guilds, but it’s a HUGE barrier of entry to people that are pugging — just getting the group going will be a pain then. That’s part of the logistical challenge I was trying to get at with point 2.

I think this is both a positive and a negative point though. PvE guilds have been complaining there’s nothing in game you need a guild for, that it’s hard to keep members because there’s no focus as opposed to WvW oriented guilds. So finally, there would be something a guild is useful for in pve aside from chatting and getting a mf buff.

Considering the CDI was called guild raids, there’s even a good chance these raids would use the guild mission system. If that’s the case, only guilds could complete them in the first place.

I mght’ve said it, I think that’s the way you might get raids, through the enhanced guild system, and guild-specific. I go back and forth on that one though, exclusive content seems to be against their base precepts.

IDK, I wouldn’t be opposed to it. After all ppl have 5 guild slots and if they ever add some type of alliances they could make it accessible to mixed guild parties that way. Who knows? I doubt any of this will happen, but one can dream.

I do agree it seems a tad too exclusive for Anet’s style.

Windsagio.1340:

A countermeme that’s just as inaccurate as the base meme isn’t a great selling point, I don’t think. Saying stacking is EZ MODE REQUIRED PLAY is not much more silly than saying “NOBODY STACKS EVER”. They’re both inaccurate.

I watched my last dungeon tour vod to count the times we corner stacked. Once. 16 dungeon paths, one instance of corner stacking. Take that data point for what it is. Within the community of players who know what they are doing, corner stacking isn’t really a thing, which isn’t an exaggeration at all. Forgive us for reacting to it so vociferously, but when every… less educated poster says, “LOLZ DUNGEONS R EZ STACK IN CORNER AND SPAM SKILLZ ALL U DO” responding with accurate information is required. Plus who knows, maybe someday the knowledge of how to do dungeons properly will trickle down to the PUG level. It took a while for HEAVIES ONLY pug groups to die, didn’kitten Where did all the posts about HEAVIES ONLY META NEEDS TO DIE go? Oh thats right, pugs eventually wised up, got better and stopped promoting that fallacy.

For reference, I use the Warrior skill “Fear Me!” in dungeons just as often as we corner stack. The Thief uses Needle Trap as often as we corner stack. Pun intended: these are corner case scenarios.

Man you really really really want to argue about this nike.

If so make a thread, if I notice it you can trust I’ll comment.

cranos.5913:

Windsagio.1340:

cranos.5913:

Windsagio.1340:

Unless you run with a group (and somewhat depending on your class) it can be really hard to get a full pickup group for a high fractal or Arah now (although in fractals I honestly think that’s one of the advantages of swamp-rolling, anything in there can be started easily with a not-full group),

Now, you have to fill 9 slots to pug that hard new content instead of filling 4. This doesnt’ impact people in organized dungeoneering guilds, but it’s a HUGE barrier of entry to people that are pugging — just getting the group going will be a pain then. That’s part of the logistical challenge I was trying to get at with point 2.

I think this is both a positive and a negative point though. PvE guilds have been complaining there’s nothing in game you need a guild for, that it’s hard to keep members because there’s no focus as opposed to WvW oriented guilds. So finally, there would be something a guild is useful for in pve aside from chatting and getting a mf buff.

Considering the CDI was called guild raids, there’s even a good chance these raids would use the guild mission system. If that’s the case, only guilds could complete them in the first place.

I mght’ve said it, I think that’s the way you might get raids, through the enhanced guild system, and guild-specific. I go back and forth on that one though, exclusive content seems to be against their base precepts.

IDK, I wouldn’t be opposed to it. After all ppl have 5 guild slots and if they ever add some type of alliances they could make it accessible to mixed guild parties that way. Who knows? I doubt any of this will happen, but one can dream.

I do agree it seems a tad too exclusive for Anet’s style.

My actual guess (if anything) is something someone else came up with:

Guild generated private instances of world fights; maybe even buffed world fights where the numbers are mean. Put them on aggressive timers so it doesn’t kill the world versions of the fights.

This alleviates the cost of development of the encounters, lets people fight excluding people if they want, but makes the experience still available to everyone.

Eldermash.5134:

wtb raids. thank you. – Eldermash

There, fixed that for ya… you don’t speak for me or the entire community.

Pretty sure that anyone against content being added to a game that desperately needs content because you don’t like a common MMO game mode or don’t enjoy that mode & would actually advocate against it’s addition…..? I can’t think of a reasonable reason why? – The Community >.O lol

So i’ve been reading this whole thread and i’ve seen the arguments tossed back and forth with practically no progress being made otherwise. The general points i’m understanding is something like this (forgive me if i’m missing some details, i’ve skimmed a lot of the thread)

Pro-raid: We want more challenging group content that the game needs. Possibly with larger groups, more/better rewards, longer dungeon times etc. There was one user who mentioned that the mechanics of the game can lend itself towards more skilled larger group content, but that potential wasn’t being filled because everyone zergs for world bosses.

Anti-raid: this game wasn’t designed for raids ad was designed for smaller group content. I’m not sure which argument this was specifically for, but atleast one person mentioned the success of fractals as challenging content as it is and perhaps building upon it for HoT by increasing difficulty. The game could also lose development time that could have been spent on other aspects of the game that the majority of players won’t get to see or play.

If i’m wrong so far, someone stop me. (and yes i’m blatantly ignoring all the trolling/calling other people selfish for whatever reason).

So far, all i’ve seen is raids dividing the playerbase. The really best thing i can add is that if there is a solution to the challenging group content, there’d have to be some sort of scaling system to allow more casual people to join in (say an update to the fractals level dial), the caveat that no story/lore is made exclusive to this content (my personal touch, and not something that i’ve seen discussed) and that doesn’t break current mechanics (i saw one guy essentially make the holy trinity using gear available in the game, which this game was never about).

Make it inclusionary so that the majority of players aren’t cut off from that content (with personal story missions in specific large scale content soloable), have it be unique enough from what’s in the game to be different and challenging, but not so much that people are actively missing content by not participating, and perhaps some innovative ways to approach dungeons (say splitting a party in half down two different corridors that close once every player is within one of the two corridors, and have different tasks for each half of the group, maybe have one guy carry a rifle that’s only found in one corridor that stuns karkas and in the other corridor a dagger that removes karka shells while the stun is there, i dunno just tossing ideas).

I feel there’s a solution here, but nobody is really reaching for it, just demanding that raids should exist (or never exist) so hopefully we can build it from here.

Windsagio.1340:

Man you really really really want to argue about this nike.

If so make a thread, if I notice it you can trust I’ll comment.

I don’t need to argue anymore, I’ve said what needs to be said. Now its incumbent on you to get smart and accept it.

Eldermash.5134:

Pretty sure that anyone against content being added to a game that desperately needs content because you don’t like a common MMO game mode or don’t enjoy that mode & would actually advocate against it’s addition…..? I can’t think of a reasonable reason why? – Eldermash >.O lol

there we go, now that makes sense…. again.

You will NEVER have a WoW like raid in GW2 without the Holy Trinity, not a complaint, just stating facts. WoW raids are designed for the Trinity, I am having a really rough time envisioning how they (Anet) could make enjoyable raid content (on WoW’s level) without any form of Trinity.

It will never be close to a WoW raid standard …

Nuzt.7894:

You will NEVER have a WoW like raid in GW2 without the Holy Trinity, not a complaint, just stating facts. WoW raids are designed for the Trinity, I am having a really rough time envisioning how they (Anet) could make enjoyable raid content (on WoW’s level) without any form of Trinity.

It will never be close to a WoW raid standard …

No one is asking anet to copy paste wow raids in gw2 lol.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Nuzt.7894:

You will NEVER have a WoW like raid in GW2 without the Holy Trinity, not a complaint, just stating facts. WoW raids are designed for the Trinity, I am having a really rough time envisioning how they (Anet) could make enjoyable raid content (on WoW’s level) without any form of Trinity.

It will never be close to a WoW raid standard …

No one is asking anet to copy paste wow raids in gw2 lol.

Read the OP post. He insinuates (he’s not wrong) that WoW does raids very well and he would like to see something along those lines here, in GW2. While he may not be asking for carbon copies of WoW raids, he would like something “like” WoW raids which won’t happen without a trinity.

Nuzt.7894:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Nuzt.7894:

You will NEVER have a WoW like raid in GW2 without the Holy Trinity, not a complaint, just stating facts. WoW raids are designed for the Trinity, I am having a really rough time envisioning how they (Anet) could make enjoyable raid content (on WoW’s level) without any form of Trinity.

It will never be close to a WoW raid standard …

No one is asking anet to copy paste wow raids in gw2 lol.

Read the OP post. He insinuates (he’s not wrong) that WoW does raids very well and he would like to see something along those lines here, in GW2. While he may not be asking for carbon copies of WoW raids, he would like something “like” WoW raids which won’t happen without a trinity.

You very well could make something to that regard. Advanced mechanics with more sustained fights. Environmental mechanics. Really the only things you wouldn’t have is a tank, I men you even could potentially have people relegated to healing duties, and even then you could have mechanics that allow people to act as tanks even if only temporarily. (I suggest you look up Skady’s Clerics gear Fractals).

Jerus.4350:

Nuzt.7894:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Nuzt.7894:

You will NEVER have a WoW like raid in GW2 without the Holy Trinity, not a complaint, just stating facts. WoW raids are designed for the Trinity, I am having a really rough time envisioning how they (Anet) could make enjoyable raid content (on WoW’s level) without any form of Trinity.

It will never be close to a WoW raid standard …

No one is asking anet to copy paste wow raids in gw2 lol.

Read the OP post. He insinuates (he’s not wrong) that WoW does raids very well and he would like to see something along those lines here, in GW2. While he may not be asking for carbon copies of WoW raids, he would like something “like” WoW raids which won’t happen without a trinity.

You very well could make something to that regard. Advanced mechanics with more sustained fights. Environmental mechanics. Really the only things you wouldn’t have is a tank, I men you even could potentially have people relegated to healing duties, and even then you could have mechanics that allow people to act as tanks even if only temporarily. (I suggest you look up Skady’s Clerics gear Fractals).

A sustained healer is something that would be very difficult to be given the mechanics of GW2. Honestly, there are more ways to tank than ways to consistently heal parties.

Jerus.4350:

Nuzt.7894:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Nuzt.7894:

You will NEVER have a WoW like raid in GW2 without the Holy Trinity, not a complaint, just stating facts. WoW raids are designed for the Trinity, I am having a really rough time envisioning how they (Anet) could make enjoyable raid content (on WoW’s level) without any form of Trinity.

It will never be close to a WoW raid standard …

No one is asking anet to copy paste wow raids in gw2 lol.

Read the OP post. He insinuates (he’s not wrong) that WoW does raids very well and he would like to see something along those lines here, in GW2. While he may not be asking for carbon copies of WoW raids, he would like something “like” WoW raids which won’t happen without a trinity.

You very well could make something to that regard. Advanced mechanics with more sustained fights. Environmental mechanics. Really the only things you wouldn’t have is a tank, I men you even could potentially have people relegated to healing duties, and even then you could have mechanics that allow people to act as tanks even if only temporarily. (I suggest you look up Skady’s Clerics gear Fractals).

You just described the Trinity.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against this, I find the dungeons boring as of right now. I would love to see them more interesting, I would love to see some raids (I’m not even a big PvE fan, but I love a good dungeon run). I’m just having a really hard time seeing how they could roll out something that would be exciting and fun without the trinity. Personally I wouldn’t even care if they brought in the Trinity, but, they would receive all kinds of backlash if they brought in the Trinity.

I know, hehe I probably should ahve left that part out, but I was just saying that you could even have the trinity aspects in this game, you can make tanks and healers, they just aren’t very good.

But you could do entire raids without devoted tanks you just take out the general health loss and only leave in the special attacks… which is basically what they’ve done with all of PVE in this game. Less attacks and meant to be avoided.

And MattyP, it’s actually pretty surprising how much healing is actually possible, I imagine an Engi + Ele team after these trait updates will be pretty amazing in their potential (staff ele, Alchemy+Explosion Engi).

Jerus.4350:

I know, hehe I probably should ahve left that part out, but I was just saying that you could even have the trinity aspects in this game, you can make tanks and healers, they just aren’t very good.

But you could do entire raids without devoted tanks you just take out the general health loss and only leave in the special attacks… which is basically what they’ve done with all of PVE in this game. Less attacks and meant to be avoided.

And MattyP, it’s actually pretty surprising how much healing is actually possible, I imagine an Engi + Ele team after these trait updates will be pretty amazing in their potential (staff ele, Alchemy+Explosion Engi).

It depends on the fight mechanics. With the absence of targeted healing, parties will have to stay together to benefit from AoE Healing. If the encounter forces you to separate in some way, then it becomes a lot more difficult to act as a healer.

That being said, I think most of the healing traits on the new engi line are in the Inventions tree :-)

Oops, yeah, my bad. Flip flopped them in my head.

And either way, I shouldn’t have even mentioned that about the trinity, just did for whatever stupid reason. That’s not what this game is about.

I don’t think anybody arguing for raids, at least not most people in this thread, are asking for a trinity. We talked about this a bunch on the Raids CDI. Here’s a few ideas for mechanics that I would consider useful…

• Bosses with different attacks that require active use of skills. For example, a boss with that has a devastating (dodgeable, unblockable, unblindable) attack that is only used when the boss does not have weakness.

• Bosses that require splits of the party by requiring that they be DPSed while other party members stand on pressure pad/fire laser/defend NPC/whatever. These should be tuned so that really good parties can get through them by only letting a small number of players DPS the boss and exceptional parties can run the secondary mechanics with fewer players, leaving more players for DPSing the boss.

• Integration of puzzles and combat like in Fractals.

• Encounters where timing becomes a factor for things other than “dodge the red circle.” The break bar will help this a fair bit, but I think there are other creative options out there.

You can have MECHANICS without having a TRINITY. By having more than 5 players, your mechanics can be more complicated and allow for different solutions/splits.

timmyf.1490:

You can have MECHANICS without having a TRINITY. By having more than 5 players, your mechanics can be more complicated and allow for different solutions/splits.

There are so many thing they could do with “raids” and 15+ players.

They could even have some “healers” in some boss fights by simply adding weapons that change your skills. Or have people already forgot that something like that exists?

For example at 75%, 50% and 25% the boss deals massive damage for 30 seconds that can’t be blocked or healed with normal skills.

In order for the “raid” not to die, 2 or 3 people have to go and get “medic” weapons. The medic weapons should be protected by some kind of challenge, maybe a wall that the raid has to destroy by focusing the DPS on it. Once equipped the medic weapons last for 45 seconds and can be used to counter the massive damage by the boss.

There are many possiblities and I would also love to see some vertically in boss fights too.

Nuzt.7894:

I am having a really rough time envisioning how they (Anet) could make enjoyable raid content (on WoW’s level) without any form of Trinity. I’m just having a really hard time seeing how they could roll out something that would be exciting and fun without the trinity. Personally I wouldn’t even care if they brought in the Trinity, but, they would receive all kinds of backlash if they brought in the Trinity.

Just because you can’t figure out how to design challenging content with a lot of mechanics in an active combat doesn’t mean its impossible. Don’t be small-minded.

NikeEU.7690:

Just because you can’t figure out how to design challenging content with a lot of mechanics in an active combat doesn’t mean its impossible. Don’t be small-minded.

Pretty much this. There are an impressive number of raid designs in other MMOs for which few or none of the mechanics would be a problem in GW2.

I bring Turn 5 up a lot in these threads, but it’s a good example of this:

While not strictly a raid, you could also do something pretty similar to FFXIV’s Steps of Faith quite easily in GW2.

well really the question of ‘could they’ is silly.

The safe question is “Will they” (probably not)

The less safe question is “Should they” (which is most of the argument in the thread)

Windsagio.1340:

well really the question of ‘could they’ is silly.

The safe question is “Will they” (probably not)

The less safe question is “Should they” (which is most of the argument in the thread)

Well they never said “Raids are ‘off the table’”.
We got this: https://youtu.be/sG5oUKqbIVM?t=6m52s

And this “Simply put: we haven’t announced it yet – when we’re ready to show everything about our plans for challenging content for HoT, we’ll announce it.”

Both don’t say “HoT will have raids” nor “HoT won’t have raids”. But really WHAT is it? What CAN it even be? Why can’t they give us an answer? Is it so hard to say “Yes” or “No” or “something like that”?

“Probably” is a word with meanings man :p

It doesn’t look likely we’ll get raids as traditionally envisioned, or even close to htat.

Windsagio.1340:

“Probably” is a word with meanings man :p

It doesn’t look likely we’ll get raids as traditionally envisioned, or even close to htat.

Well I still would say “nobody knows”. And they never asked for “raids like in WoW” just for instanced content with multiple groups.

I never played WoW. Is the Shiva fight in Hard Mode from FF14 Realm Reborn considered a raid? Because I liked that.

Neox.3497:

Windsagio.1340:

“Probably” is a word with meanings man :p

It doesn’t look likely we’ll get raids as traditionally envisioned, or even close to htat.

Well I still would say “nobody knows”. And they never asked for “raids like in WoW” just for instanced content with multiple groups.

Well whats your reason for thinking it likely beyond hopeful thinking?

I can think of some reasons it’s unlikely (cost vs. player engagement, dividing the player base, accessibility questions, etc), but I haven’t seen any real arguments that it’s likely beyond a few people wanting it.

Something I want to note to people debating:

Anet earlier on said they had revealed all the HoT features, if you go back a few pages in this thread, people arguing against Raids were pointed this out.

But then recently, Anet has stated that the new Hard Group Content feature wasnt revealed yet.

So thats a contradiction.

cocowoushi.7150:

I never played WoW. Is the Shiva fight in Hard Mode from FF14 Realm Reborn considered a raid? Because I liked that.

In FFXIV, the following are considered raids:

• The Binding Coil of Bahamut — Turns 1 through 5 taken together.
• The Second Coil of Bahamut — Turns 6 through 9 taken together.
• The Final Coil of Bahamut — Turns 10 through 13 taken together.

• Labyrinth of the Ancients — this is an example of a ‘casual’ raid.
• Syrcus Tower — again, this is a ‘casual’ raid.
• The World of Darkness — again, this is a ‘casual’ raid.

Self-contained fights like Shiva HM and the Steps of Faith are considered too short to be raids, but they are the same basic idea. Back when ANet did the guild raiding CDI, one of the first pages mentioned Ultima HM as an example.

Windsagio.1340:

Neox.3497:

Windsagio.1340:

“Probably” is a word with meanings man :p

It doesn’t look likely we’ll get raids as traditionally envisioned, or even close to htat.

Well I still would say “nobody knows”. And they never asked for “raids like in WoW” just for instanced content with multiple groups.

Well whats your reason for thinking it likely beyond hopeful thinking?

I can think of some reasons it’s unlikely (cost vs. player engagement, dividing the player base, accessibility questions, etc), but I haven’t seen any real arguments that it’s likely beyond a few people wanting it.

-Add difficulties so even the worst players can “play it”
-Make maps/bosses once open world AND once instanced

2 ‘easy’ ways to fix that. They could even do both. And the cost to make some bosses “harder” or “easier” shouldn’t be that high.

Neox.3497:

Windsagio.1340:

Neox.3497:

Windsagio.1340:

“Probably” is a word with meanings man :p

It doesn’t look likely we’ll get raids as traditionally envisioned, or even close to htat.

Well I still would say “nobody knows”. And they never asked for “raids like in WoW” just for instanced content with multiple groups.

Well whats your reason for thinking it likely beyond hopeful thinking?

I can think of some reasons it’s unlikely (cost vs. player engagement, dividing the player base, accessibility questions, etc), but I haven’t seen any real arguments that it’s likely beyond a few people wanting it.

-Add difficulties so even the worst players can “play it”
-Make maps/bosses once open world AND once instanced

2 ‘easy’ ways to fix that. They could even do both. And the cost to make some bosses “harder” or “easier” shouldn’t be that high.

Well to be fair, I didn’t ask how problems could be minimized, but rather if there was any evidence or reasoning that it was likely.

Windsagio.1340:

Neox.3497:

Windsagio.1340:

Neox.3497:

Windsagio.1340:

“Probably” is a word with meanings man :p

It doesn’t look likely we’ll get raids as traditionally envisioned, or even close to htat.

Well I still would say “nobody knows”. And they never asked for “raids like in WoW” just for instanced content with multiple groups.

Well whats your reason for thinking it likely beyond hopeful thinking?

I can think of some reasons it’s unlikely (cost vs. player engagement, dividing the player base, accessibility questions, etc), but I haven’t seen any real arguments that it’s likely beyond a few people wanting it.

-Add difficulties so even the worst players can “play it”
-Make maps/bosses once open world AND once instanced

2 ‘easy’ ways to fix that. They could even do both. And the cost to make some bosses “harder” or “easier” shouldn’t be that high.

Well to be fair, I didn’t ask how problems could be minimized, but rather if there was any evidence or reasoning that it was likely.

Well one would be that anet does things different. Wouldn’t be making the same content open world and instanced different?

Trinity may be in use for Raids after all. :-)
http://i.imgur.com/hvILOhL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7gcwS3i.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NwlPRuD.jpg

Knighthonor.4061:

Trinity may be in use for Raids after all. :-)
http://i.imgur.com/hvILOhL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7gcwS3i.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NwlPRuD.jpg

Prepare for some rage.

Neox.3497:

Knighthonor.4061:

Trinity may be in use for Raids after all. :-)
http://i.imgur.com/hvILOhL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7gcwS3i.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NwlPRuD.jpg

Prepare for some rage.

The trend seems to be “people try to do bad things, people get upset that bad things don’t work, ArenaNet buffs bad things so people aren’t upset.”

Ventari legend healer, you are the new Longbow Ranger.

Arenanet realized long ago that they made a huge design mistake by eliminating specialized roles from their game. They did this with the hope that it would push some new creative direction to generate content that was not beholden to healing, tanking, or dps.

This did not happen. Because it can not happen. The only way to design difficult content that doesn’t require specialized roles is to design a game with different mechanics. If you want to build world class top end content in a game that operates on health bars, resource management, damage, and hotkey skills, you have just designed yourself into a corner regarding what types of activities you have available for distribution in such high end content.

Even though I’m sure there’s people at Arenanet that would like to correct this mistake, and shave off the last bit of metal that’s keeping their masterpiece from perfection by bringing about a more distributed set of group roles, they cannot.

Their marketing was so successful against the very idea of “The evil dirty holy trinity” that the community they have fostered considers it heresy. Literally. Just the suggestion that “Dedicated healers are a good thing for content development” brings down a torrent of “GO BACK TO WOW YOU STUPID HOLY TRINITY LOVER THIS GAME IS ABOUT SKYYYYLLLLLLZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!”.

And there in lies the problem. The backlash they would expect from fixing the only thing wrong with this ABSOLUTE MASTERPIECE OF A GAME, ( but still, something so wrong it breaks everything else in terms of group content) would be so terrible, Galileo would feel sorry for them.

(for those of you that don’t know, Galileo was the first person to openly admit the planet earth was round, and was branded a heretic by the catholic church for going against it’s teaching, and spouting his satanic lies.)

It’s too bad. I’ll play the single player stuff and any WvW pvp stuff that pops up for sure. But just like most people that are actually good at MMO’s, the group content is and always will be crap.

Hotstreak.5360

(for those of you that don’t know, Galileo was the first person to openly admit the planet earth was round, and was branded a heretic by the catholic church for going against it’s teaching, and spouting his satanic lies.)

A correction: It was actually for his championing of the heliocentric/Copernican model (where the Earth orbits the sun), as opposed to the geocentric model (where the sun orbits the Earth), which was the orthodoxy of the Catholic Church of the time. He was preceded by Nicolaus Copernicus (where the “Copernican model” got its name from), and possibly several other ancient writers, although there’s limited textual evidence for that.

The “flat Earth” belief is, in any event, largely a historical fiction, with most cultures since the Greeks knowing that the Earth was round. The idea of people believing that the Earth was flat was propagated by men such as John William Draper, who were interested in supporting a thesis of the incompatibility of science and religion, and who had no qualms about inventing history outright to do so (see his book “History of the Conflict Between Religion and Science” for more information).

timmyf.1490:

Ventari legend healer, you are the new Longbow Ranger.

Except Longbow Ranger have pretty sweet burst before switching back to Sword/Axe