Guild Wars 2

arenta.2953:

go by that logic if u want, but then why put staff in at all.
what does theif gain from it?
a mobile melee? nope. dagger
a stationary melee with knockdowns? rip for thief

i’d sooner believe its a dart gun than a staff(at least dart gun is a stealth weapon)

can u give evidence of any ninja using a staff during actual combat (aka not training)

First off a staff is in there cause we are all here speculating that the artwork represents the thief elite spec character panel and every single character panel for elite specs has included the elite spec’s weapon.

Second, what you feel the thief gains from a weapon choice doesn’t matter. You are not the developer anet can give thieves scepters and shoot unicorns from the scepters if they wanted to so saying that scepters does not give thieves anything is a mute point. Just like saying staff gives thieves nothing is a mute point because if anet wants to give thieves staffs they are gonna give thieves staffs no matter how you feel about what thieve’s need.

Third, why do I have to give a historic basis for ninja’s using staffs. Cause first of all ninja’s as seen in movies and other media are so far removed from actual historic ninja that there is no point in comparing the two or giving a historic basis when developing a ninja for a video game. Historic ninja’s for one were mostly peasant farmer’s more likely to use a hoe or other farming tool in the manner of a staff like weapon then a rifle seeing how gunpowder would be hard to come by. Also ninja’s using staffs isn’t crazy look at Donatello from the teenage mutant ninja turtles for example. Also i don’t think you have ever even touched a real bo staff cause if you have actually felt the weight of one you wouldn’t be calling it a bludgeoning weapon like it cant quickly disable or kill someone. A strike from a bo staff on someone without armor is gonna do its job in one hit. Also one of the most iconic ninja weapons is nunchucks those are bludgeoning weapons as well but I guess you cant kill people with those either.

sebradle.7034:

arenta.2953:

go by that logic if u want, but then why put staff in at all.
what does theif gain from it?
a mobile melee? nope. dagger
a stationary melee with knockdowns? rip for thief

i’d sooner believe its a dart gun than a staff(at least dart gun is a stealth weapon)

can u give evidence of any ninja using a staff during actual combat (aka not training)

First off a staff is in there cause we are all here speculating that the artwork represents the thief elite spec character panel and every single character panel for elite specs has included the elite spec’s weapon.

Second, what you feel the thief gains from a weapon choice doesn’t matter. You are not the developer anet can give thieves scepters and shoot unicorns from the scepters if they wanted to so saying that scepters does not give thieves anything is a mute point. Just like saying staff gives thieves nothing is a mute point because if anet wants to give thieves staffs they are gonna give thieves staffs no matter how you feel about what thieve’s need.

Third, why do I have to give a historic basis for ninja’s using staffs. Cause first of all ninja’s as seen in movies and other media are so far removed from actual historic ninja that there is no point in comparing the two or giving a historic basis when developing a ninja for a video game. Historic ninja’s for one were mostly peasant farmer’s more likely to use a hoe or other farming tool in the manner of a staff like weapon then a rifle seeing how gunpowder would be hard to come by. Also ninja’s using staffs isn’t crazy look at Donatello from the teenage mutant ninja turtles for example. Also i don’t think you have ever even touched a real bo staff cause if you have actually felt the weight of one you wouldn’t be calling it a bludgeoning weapon like it cant quickly disable or kill someone. A strike from a bo staff on someone without armor is gonna do its job in one hit. Also one of the most iconic ninja weapons is nunchucks those are bludgeoning weapons as well but I guess you cant kill people with those either.

never said they didn’t use staffs, or nunchucks
but generally, ninjas perform the role of assassins. look at the era of soloman, and ptolemy.
knifes, daggers, throwing knifes, and darts- silent bladed weapons that don’t make a sound when you use them (even rope, though that was more a last resort)

or, rifles.
i was talking about ninja in the period of Oda Nobunaga. (including 2 of the most famous people. an assassin who used 2 rifles to shoot oda, and a ninja who spirited (forget his name…part 4) to safety.
heres a cartoon review

and seriously? unicorns and rainbows?
devs have freedom yes, but ultimately they need to appeal to players.

cause players have freedom of choice for what game they play and spend money on.
devs can’t choose what game they develop.

arenta.2953:

Lysette.4619:

Class colors are used in the background are reminiscent of theifs current trait lines backgrounds

and yet a blugeoning weapon matches a stealth class?

Yes, very much so actually.

arenta.2953:

sebradle.7034:

arenta.2953:

go by that logic if u want, but then why put staff in at all.
what does theif gain from it?
a mobile melee? nope. dagger
a stationary melee with knockdowns? rip for thief

i’d sooner believe its a dart gun than a staff(at least dart gun is a stealth weapon)

can u give evidence of any ninja using a staff during actual combat (aka not training)

First off a staff is in there cause we are all here speculating that the artwork represents the thief elite spec character panel and every single character panel for elite specs has included the elite spec’s weapon.

Second, what you feel the thief gains from a weapon choice doesn’t matter. You are not the developer anet can give thieves scepters and shoot unicorns from the scepters if they wanted to so saying that scepters does not give thieves anything is a mute point. Just like saying staff gives thieves nothing is a mute point because if anet wants to give thieves staffs they are gonna give thieves staffs no matter how you feel about what thieve’s need.

Third, why do I have to give a historic basis for ninja’s using staffs. Cause first of all ninja’s as seen in movies and other media are so far removed from actual historic ninja that there is no point in comparing the two or giving a historic basis when developing a ninja for a video game. Historic ninja’s for one were mostly peasant farmer’s more likely to use a hoe or other farming tool in the manner of a staff like weapon then a rifle seeing how gunpowder would be hard to come by. Also ninja’s using staffs isn’t crazy look at Donatello from the teenage mutant ninja turtles for example. Also i don’t think you have ever even touched a real bo staff cause if you have actually felt the weight of one you wouldn’t be calling it a bludgeoning weapon like it cant quickly disable or kill someone. A strike from a bo staff on someone without armor is gonna do its job in one hit. Also one of the most iconic ninja weapons is nunchucks those are bludgeoning weapons as well but I guess you cant kill people with those either.

i was talking about ninja in the period of Oda Nobunaga.
heres a cartoon review

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3frtoMaxZE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht6h4-MsMOY

and seriously? unicorns and rainbows?
devs have freedom yes, but ultimately they need to appeal to players.

cause players have freedom of choice for what game they play and spend money on.
devs can’t choose what game they develop.

Did you really just ask one member of the forums for evidence of real ninjas in combat, to prove how a thief bo is ‘viable’ but then reply to them with cartoons?

penelopehannibal.8947:

arenta.2953:

sebradle.7034:

arenta.2953:

go by that logic if u want, but then why put staff in at all.
what does theif gain from it?
a mobile melee? nope. dagger
a stationary melee with knockdowns? rip for thief

i’d sooner believe its a dart gun than a staff(at least dart gun is a stealth weapon)

can u give evidence of any ninja using a staff during actual combat (aka not training)

First off a staff is in there cause we are all here speculating that the artwork represents the thief elite spec character panel and every single character panel for elite specs has included the elite spec’s weapon.

Second, what you feel the thief gains from a weapon choice doesn’t matter. You are not the developer anet can give thieves scepters and shoot unicorns from the scepters if they wanted to so saying that scepters does not give thieves anything is a mute point. Just like saying staff gives thieves nothing is a mute point because if anet wants to give thieves staffs they are gonna give thieves staffs no matter how you feel about what thieve’s need.

Third, why do I have to give a historic basis for ninja’s using staffs. Cause first of all ninja’s as seen in movies and other media are so far removed from actual historic ninja that there is no point in comparing the two or giving a historic basis when developing a ninja for a video game. Historic ninja’s for one were mostly peasant farmer’s more likely to use a hoe or other farming tool in the manner of a staff like weapon then a rifle seeing how gunpowder would be hard to come by. Also ninja’s using staffs isn’t crazy look at Donatello from the teenage mutant ninja turtles for example. Also i don’t think you have ever even touched a real bo staff cause if you have actually felt the weight of one you wouldn’t be calling it a bludgeoning weapon like it cant quickly disable or kill someone. A strike from a bo staff on someone without armor is gonna do its job in one hit. Also one of the most iconic ninja weapons is nunchucks those are bludgeoning weapons as well but I guess you cant kill people with those either.

i was talking about ninja in the period of Oda Nobunaga.
heres a cartoon review

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3frtoMaxZE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht6h4-MsMOY

and seriously? unicorns and rainbows?
devs have freedom yes, but ultimately they need to appeal to players.

cause players have freedom of choice for what game they play and spend money on.
devs can’t choose what game they develop.

Did you really just ask one member of the forums for evidence of real ninjas in combat, to prove how a thief bo is ‘viable’ but then reply to them with cartoons?

posted a cartoon because its based on a real historical event.
if u want i can bring a historical video. but since they didnt have video camera(or heck, cameras) back then its gonna be a made up product depicting a real thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iga-ry%C5%AB

or. look up
sugitani zenjub?

This is part of the Ninja Wikipedia.

Arson was the primary form of sabotage practiced by the ninja, who targeted castles and camps.

So I guess since we are now calling Thieves Ninjas its safe to assume dual torches !

No seriously, ninjas were rarely used for assassination and often used blunt objects to avoid killing.

The interwebs, is there anything it can’t teach you ?

We could go a step further and talk about how they used explosives, but that would mean Engineers are also Ninja’s. Good Lord how many ninja classes does this game have !

Random.4691:

This is part of the Ninja Wikipedia.

Arson was the primary form of sabotage practiced by the ninja, who targeted castles and camps.

So I guess since we are now calling Thieves Ninjas its safe to assume dual torches !

No seriously, ninjas were rarely used for assassination and often used blunt objects to avoid killing.

The interwebs, is there anything it can’t teach you ?

A ninja (???) or shinobi (???) was a covert agent or mercenary in feudal Japan. The functions of the ninja included espionage, sabotage, infiltration, and assassination, and open combat in certain situations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja

The best-known cases of assassination attempts involve famous historical figures. Deaths of famous persons have sometimes been attributed to assassination by ninja, but the secretive natures of these scenarios have been difficult to prove.¹⁵ Assassins were often identified as ninja later on, but there is no evidence to prove whether some were specially trained for the task or simply a hired thug.

Portrait of Oda Nobunaga, by Jesuit painter Giovanni Niccolo, 1583–1590
The warlord Oda Nobunaga’s notorious reputation led to several attempts on his life. In 1571, a K?ga ninja and sharpshooter by the name of Sugitani Zenjub? was hired to assassinate Nobunaga. Using two arquebuses, he fired two consecutive shots at Nobunaga, but was unable to inflict mortal injury through Nobunaga’s armor.⁵¹ Sugitani managed to escape, but was caught four years later and put to death by torture.⁵¹ In 1573, Manabe Rokur?, a vassal of daimyo Hatano Hideharu, attempted to infiltrate Azuchi Castle and assassinate the sleeping Nobunaga. However, this also ended in failure, and Manabe was forced to commit suicide, after which his body was openly displayed in public.⁵¹ According to a document, the Iranki, when Nobunaga was inspecting Iga province — which his army had devastated — a group of three ninja shot at him with large-caliber firearms. The shots flew wide of Nobunaga, however, and instead killed seven of his surrounding companions.⁵²

The ninja Hachisuka Tenz? was sent by Nobunaga to assassinate the powerful daimyo Takeda Shingen, but ultimately failed in his attempts. Hiding in the shadow of a tree, he avoided being seen under the moonlight, and later concealed himself in kitten he had prepared beforehand, thus escaping capture.⁵³

An assassination attempt on Toyotomi Hideyoshi was also thwarted. A ninja named Kirigakure Saiz? (possibly Kirigakure Shikaemon) thrust a spear through the floorboards to kill Hideyoshi, but was unsuccessful. He was “smoked out” of his hiding place by another ninja working for Hideyoshi, who apparently used a sort of primitive “flamethrower”.⁵⁴ Unfortunately, the veracity of this account has been clouded by later fictional publications depicting Saiz? as one of the legendary Sanada Ten Braves.

Uesugi Kenshin, the famous daimyo of Echigo province was rumored to have been killed by a ninja. The legend credits his death to an assassin who is said to have hidden in Kenshin’s lavatory, and fatally injured Kenshin by thrusting a blade or spear into his kitten.⁵⁵ While historical records showed that Kenshin suffered abdominal problems, modern historians have usually attributed his death to stomach cancer, esophageal cancer or cerebrovascular disease.⁵⁶

Although shorter swords and daggers were used, the katana was probably the ninja’s weapon of choice, and was sometimes carried on the back.⁷¹ The katana had several uses beyond normal combat. In dark places, the scabbard could be extended out of the sword, and used as a long probing device.⁸⁵ The sword could also be laid against the wall, where the ninja could use the sword guard (tsuba) to gain a higher foothold.⁸⁶ The katana could even be used as a device to stun enemies before attacking them, by putting a combination of red pepper, dirt or dust, and iron filings into the area near the top of the scabbard, so that as the sword was drawn the concoction would fly into the enemy’s eyes, stunning him until a lethal blow could be made. While straight swords were used before the invention of the katana,⁸⁷ the straight ninjat? has no historical precedent and is likely a modern invention.

A pair of kusarigama, on display in Iwakuni Castle
An array of darts, spikes, knives, and sharp, star-shaped discs were known collectively as shuriken. While not exclusive to the ninja,⁸⁸ they were an important part of the kitten nal, where they could be thrown in any direction.⁸⁹ Bows were used for sharpshooting, and some ninjas’ bows were intentionally made smaller than the traditional yumi (longbow).⁹⁰ The chain and sickle (kusarigama) was also used by the ninja.⁹¹ This weapon consisted of a weight on one end of a chain, and a sickle (kama) on the other. The weight was swung to injure or disable an opponent, and the sickle used to kill at close range. Simple gardening tools such as kunai and sickles were used as weaponry so that, if discovered, a ninja could claim they are his tools and not weapons, despite their ability to be used in battle.

Explosives introduced from China were known in Japan by the time of the Mongol Invasions in the 13th century.⁹² Later, explosives such as hand-held bombs and grenades were adopted by the ninja.⁸³ Soft-cased bombs were designed to release smoke or poison gas, along with fragmentation explosives packed with iron or pottery shrapnel.⁶⁷

Along with common weapons, a large assortment of miscellaneous arms were associated with the ninja. Some examples include poison,⁷² makibishi (caltrops),⁹³ cane swords (shikomizue),⁹⁴ land mines,⁹⁵ fukiya (blowguns), poisoned darts, acid-spurting tubes, and firearms.⁸³ The happ?, a small eggshell filled with blinding powder (metsubushi), was also used to facilitate escape.⁹⁶

Look I can quote more too !

The ninja were stealth soldiers and mercenaries hired mostly by daimyos.⁴⁵ Their primary roles were those of espionage and sabotage, although assassinations were also attributed to ninja. In battle, the ninja could also be used to cause confusion amongst the enemy.⁴⁶ A degree of psychological warfare in the capturing of enemy banners can be seen illustrated in the ?u Eikei Gunki, composed between the 16th and 17th centuries:

Bottom line is, you’re talking about a Ninja, the class is a thief, we don’t know the name of the specialization yet which could be Martial Artist, Assasin, Ninja, Superhappyfuntimebostaffguy.

All of that is fantastic – if any so-called melee Staff set was actually bo staves.

There is one, single, bo staff skin in evidence, a likely Gemstore exclusive. Just about every other staff in the game is a nonsensical magic stick with almost no utility beyond conjuring fireballs. I dare you to hit someone upside the head with a Bifrost. G’head – see how long it takes before that thing breaks and you cry.

The skins make no sense. Even if that’s set aside and all Thief elite specs are expected to use the one skin, the weapon itself makes no sense for a class that already has an extremely disruptive, stuns-and-dazes melee set. Even if that’s set aside, it makes even less sense than the Dragonhunter does to take the sand-in-your-eyes, kick-you-while-you’re-down dirty tricks class – a class with utility categories specifically named Tricks and Deceptions - and try and turn it into some sort of weird, heroic martial artist straight out of a Karate Kid movie.

What, did the Thief completely forget how to actually win fights? Trade his cutlass and flintlock in for a big stick and his nasty array of underhanded stunts, ruthless tricks, and unfair advantages for fancy tournament moves and a Hollywood plot?

I did not create a Thief as my main character so I could be Jackie Chan. If Guardian players are allowed to be two-thousand-posts cheesed off that the Dragonhunter doesn’t follow the established flavor of their favorite class well enough, what in the world makes you think that Thief players won’t raise just as much of a ruckus over being forced into the mold of Plucky KungkittenGuy because some goombas out there decided that being Donatello was the future of the profession?

EDIT:: three edits later and I still get ‘KungKitten’ instead of Kung (incorrectly spelled) Foo. ArenaNet, your cuss filter is impossible. Please fix it to not hate the entire English language.

Here’s a revolutionary thought; elite specialisations are meant to be specialised, meaning they aren’t going to be for everyone. It’s supposed to be something new and different, not more of the same.

@DevilLordLaser

It seems to be split feelings right now, many people are all for a staff melee type weapon while the others want the Rifle.

Thieves currently do a lot of quick spike melee dmg, and can perform as medium ranged with bows and pistols. It is possible that they are trying to give them the option to be more of a tanky frontline class. I would assume that a Bo-Staff brings some AoE attacks into play for thieves as well as possibly some blocks. This is all just assumptions and none of us really know what to expect but I don’t think its far fetched to believe they are trying to give thieves the option to be more frontline ish.

We are all literally guessing right now, maybe this is their way of bringing back the Monk Class and thieves will become stealth support.

Your guess is as good as anyones.

They need to spill the beans so to speak, let us know what to expect and then tweek accordingly. If they haven’t brainstormed all the specializations by now then they really pooped the bed.

@DevilLordLaser

Of course you have the right to be upset if the elite spec they come up with isn’t your cup of tea. For instance I wasn’t too thrilled when we all thought we were getting a sniper with a rifle. I was ok with it, though personally the staff is ok with me but I would actually prefer an elite spec with off hand sword tbh. The thing about the elite specs I want the most is when each class has multiple elite specs that’s what I am most excited for even though that will probably be way down the road from now.

krzygum.4028:

To be fair the character on picture is hardly a druid.

To be fair the secons staff added with what people think are elite specialization weapons doesn’t look like a druid staff either.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

There are martial artists who can disable or even kill you with their bare hands in many different ways. I’m sure a ninja can do quite some damage with a long stick. A true martial artist can turn everything into a deadly weapon, wether it’s a razor sharp sword or a paper clip.

Contrary to current general belief, ninjas weren’t that much of a martial artists usually. They relied too much on stealth and subterfuge – direct fight was the last thing they wanted to happen, as it generally would end in a dead ninja.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

All of that is fantastic – if any so-called melee Staff set was actually bo staves.

There is one, single, bo staff skin in evidence, a likely Gemstore exclusive. Just about every other staff in the game is a nonsensical magic stick with almost no utility beyond conjuring fireballs. I dare you to hit someone upside the head with a Bifrost. G’head – see how long it takes before that thing breaks and you cry.

Technically any martial weapon has a very limited lifespan. It’s not more silly than using Frostfang in the desert. Or using a sniper rifle as shotgun. Bifrost is still more practical looking to hit with than the more elaborate staves in this game like the ascended staff skins.

Are they going to change the F1 skill once we specialize? I don’t see the sense behind shooting from afar (in case we get a boomstick) then teleporting at melee just to get an additional skill.

Heck, rogues can have the staff if they let rangers get the rifle.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Heck, rogues can have the staff if they let rangers get the rifle.

aye
in the end. someone in medium armor needs a rifle(and not a cheap shotgun knockoff that you never aim with but just fire from the hip….seriously killed engi for me)

Johje Holan.4607:

In the image the rifle clearly has all of those; stock, barrel, trigger and muzzle. Its even got a strap.

The Barrel is obvious. The muzzle is partially off the image. The stock and trigger are hard to see just due to the blurring effect in the lower left of the image.

I’ve included an annotated image for those who don’t see it.

Thief isn’t getting rifle because the Revenant is getting it.

penelopehannibal.8947:

Thief isn’t getting rifle because the Revenant is getting it.

Not sure if joking or not.

FrizzFreston.5290:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Thief isn’t getting rifle because the Revenant is getting it.

Not sure if joking or not.

Don’t worry, I am joking – I’m just trying to display the same sense of barrel scraping as some of the Pro-Rifle people are!

penelopehannibal.8947:

Johje Holan.4607:

In the image the rifle clearly has all of those; stock, barrel, trigger and muzzle. Its even got a strap.

The Barrel is obvious. The muzzle is partially off the image. The stock and trigger are hard to see just due to the blurring effect in the lower left of the image.

I’ve included an annotated image for those who don’t see it.

Thief isn’t getting rifle because the Revenant is getting it.

Genius!

‘Not my cup of tea’ is different from ‘not even tangentially related to the base class’.

The melee Staff folks seem to basically be wanting a new profession entirely – a D&D-style Monk or other noble martial artist – and are hanging their threadbare hopes on the Thief as being, vaguely and in only the most superficial sense, the closest they have to their desired Martial Artist Guy. The Ranger elite spec is already confirmed as a natural caster, and the Engineer is never going to be an acrobatic martial artist. It has nothing to do with Thievery, or any of the other, more specialized methods of achieving Thievery out there.

The problem, of course, is that it doesn’t fit the Thief, either. It’s just not a thing in this game, and mutilating the Thief’s elite spec to try and fit the King-F(u) Panda mold is honestly as insulting to Thief players as the Dragonhunter was to Guardian players. Except the Dragonhunter actually worked and was awesome except for the name and the weird forced big-game thing.

Melee staff isn’t even cool, or a thing that plugs a gaping hole in the Thief’s line-up.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

‘Not my cup of tea’ is different from ‘not even tangentially related to the base class’.

The melee Staff folks seem to basically be wanting a new profession entirely – a D&D-style Monk or other noble martial artist – and are hanging their threadbare hopes on the Thief as being, vaguely and in only the most superficial sense, the closest they have to their desired Martial Artist Guy. The Ranger elite spec is already confirmed as a natural caster, and the Engineer is never going to be an acrobatic martial artist. It has nothing to do with Thievery, or any of the other, more specialized methods of achieving Thievery out there.

The problem, of course, is that it doesn’t fit the Thief, either. It’s just not a thing in this game, and mutilating the Thief’s elite spec to try and fit the King-F(u) Panda mold is honestly as insulting to Thief players as the Dragonhunter was to Guardian players. Except the Dragonhunter actually worked and was awesome except for the name and the weird forced big-game thing.

Melee staff isn’t even cool, or a thing that plugs a gaping hole in the Thief’s line-up.

Well to be fair, the ones wanting a completely new class like the AD&D monk aren’t wrong to want this. Look at what we know from Druid, its completely different from Ranger, I know that’s just kind of speculation but the little tid bits we do know points towards a staff wielding supportish type class.

I think A net wants to use weapons that are least used by certain classes like torch, focus and warhorn. Warhammer on a Engineer is one example. A cloth profession getting a shield. A leather profession (Ranger) getting a staff. Shortbow is only used by two professions. So if you think about it they could really expand certain weapons to the spotlight,

Linfang.1087:

I think A net wants to use weapons that are least used by certain classes like torch, focus and warhorn. Warhammer on a Engineer is one example. A cloth profession getting a shield. A leather profession (Ranger) getting a staff. Shortbow is only used by two professions. So if you think about it they could really expand certain weapons to the spotlight,

but the same could be said for rifle (used by 2 classes, and not particularly effective on either. Engi has all its kits, and warrior’s rifle hasn’t been that popular or effective since bleed was removed from its 1 skill)

while staff for guardian, ele, and necro is pretty popular

arenta.2953:

but the same could be said for rifle (used by 2 classes, and not particularly effective on either. Engi has all its kits, and warrior’s rifle hasn’t been that popular or effective since bleed was removed from its 1 skill)

while staff for guardian, ele, and necro is pretty popular

My point exactly. I mentioned the rifle being on two professions in another thread., lol

I find off hand weapons to be underwhelming, not really sure why, it just doesn’t give me that wow factor.

Engineer. HAMMER. Must has.

Just sayin’.

I want a thief with a TORCH.

Flop Sweat.3456:

Engineer. HAMMER. Must has.

Just sayin’.

I want a thief with a TORCH.

i want necromancer to have a torch.
now THAT would be a good combo. death + fire.
i can see green fire attacks that burn the soul rather than the body =D

DevilLordLaser.8619:

‘Not my cup of tea’ is different from ‘not even tangentially related to the base class’.

The melee Staff folks seem to basically be wanting a new profession entirely – a D&D-style Monk or other noble martial artist – and are hanging their threadbare hopes on the Thief as being, vaguely and in only the most superficial sense, the closest they have to their desired Martial Artist Guy. The Ranger elite spec is already confirmed as a natural caster, and the Engineer is never going to be an acrobatic martial artist. It has nothing to do with Thievery, or any of the other, more specialized methods of achieving Thievery out there.

The problem, of course, is that it doesn’t fit the Thief, either. It’s just not a thing in this game, and mutilating the Thief’s elite spec to try and fit the King-F(u) Panda mold is honestly as insulting to Thief players as the Dragonhunter was to Guardian players. Except the Dragonhunter actually worked and was awesome except for the name and the weird forced big-game thing.

Melee staff isn’t even cool, or a thing that plugs a gaping hole in the Thief’s line-up.

If you wanna have a subjective argument of what “fits” a thief ok let me take a kick at it. The bo staff fits it just as well as a rifle in the current thematic state of thief seeing as we have two trait lines called acrobatics and trickery. So it would seem a pole vaulting monkey king esque trickster would have some connection to the current thief and it wouldnt be such a leap of faith to accept that. Also who is to said that the staff is going to be used in a kungkittentype fighting style. Seeing how there is data-mined ninja kunai it wouldn’t seem to far fetched to speculate that the staff could have some ninja type shadow magic abilities as well as some kungkittenacrobatics if the elite spec class is a ninja (sneakthief is the token ninja style armor in gw2).

As for the rifle that would be a sniper class right? Well who in the world snipes someone in order to steal from them. Also the thief is a primarily melee, heavily dodge orientated class seeing how all weapon sets besides one p/p has some movement built in. Snipers are typically proned hence zero movement and even from a gameplay perspective not a single 1200 range weapon in the game currently has a dash in the kit because it would be broken (except engi rifle but the jump has a huge delay and the knock up self stuns). So if anyone thinks they are gonna give us a 1200 range mobile rifle I’ll believe it when i see it (just look at the kite potential on p/d now put that at 1200 range with a kill shot).

sebradle.7034:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

‘Not my cup of tea’ is different from ‘not even tangentially related to the base class’.

The melee Staff folks seem to basically be wanting a new profession entirely – a D&D-style Monk or other noble martial artist – and are hanging their threadbare hopes on the Thief as being, vaguely and in only the most superficial sense, the closest they have to their desired Martial Artist Guy. The Ranger elite spec is already confirmed as a natural caster, and the Engineer is never going to be an acrobatic martial artist. It has nothing to do with Thievery, or any of the other, more specialized methods of achieving Thievery out there.

The problem, of course, is that it doesn’t fit the Thief, either. It’s just not a thing in this game, and mutilating the Thief’s elite spec to try and fit the King-F(u) Panda mold is honestly as insulting to Thief players as the Dragonhunter was to Guardian players. Except the Dragonhunter actually worked and was awesome except for the name and the weird forced big-game thing.

Melee staff isn’t even cool, or a thing that plugs a gaping hole in the Thief’s line-up.

If you wanna have a subjective argument of what “fits” a thief ok let me take a kick at it. The bo staff fits it just as well as a rifle in the current thematic state of thief seeing as we have two trait lines called acrobatics and trickery. So it would seem a pole vaulting monkey king esque trickster would have some connection to the current thief and it wouldnt be such a leap of faith to accept that. Also who is to said that the staff is going to be used in a kungkittentype fighting style. Seeing how there is data-mined ninja kunai it wouldn’t seem to far fetched to speculate that the staff could have some ninja type shadow magic abilities as well as some kungkittenacrobatics if the elite spec class is a ninja (sneakthief is the token ninja style armor in gw2).

As for the rifle that would be a sniper class right? Well who in the world snipes someone in order to steal from them. Also the thief is a primarily melee, heavily dodge orientated class seeing how all weapon sets besides one p/p has some movement built in. Snipers are typically proned hence zero movement and even from a gameplay perspective not a single 1200 range weapon in the game currently has a dash in the kit because it would be broken (except engi rifle but the jump has a huge delay and the knock up self stuns). So if anyone thinks they are gonna give us a 1200 range mobile rifle I’ll believe it when i see it (just look at the kite potential on p/d now put that at 1200 range with a kill shot).

keeping in mind its likely thief will lose steal when they move from theif to the elite mastery profession.
so it could change to a variety of things

heck, thief could lose stealth skills(to be replaced by the elite mastery’s skills)

DevilLordLaser.8619:

‘Not my cup of tea’ is different from ‘not even tangentially related to the base class’.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

threadbare hopes

That description better fits a crowd seeing a rifle in what is obviously a stick and goes to incredible mental gymnastics in an attempt to justify why a thief can’t wear a melee staff and why no one wants it.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

It has nothing to do with Thievery

90% a thief does has nothing to do with thievery. Except for the profession name and the Steal mechanic, it’s does everything an assassin does. Thief seems far more profficient in killing than it is in stealing.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Melee staff isn’t even cool

Subjective.

I don’t mind wether it’s a staff or rifle. I like both.
I just think it’s a staff because we clearly see a thief with a staff skin that is already in the game files.

arenta.2953:

keeping in mind its likely thief will lose steal when they move from theif to the elite mastery profession.
so it could change to a variety of things

heck, thief could lose stealth skills(to be replaced by the elite mastery’s skills)

Yeah thief will lose steal. The only real thing restricting the class mechanic they put in place of steal is traits like mug and sleight of hand that do direct effects to enemies. What ever mechanic they come up with would still need to be enemy targeted or ground targeted in an area to still proc these traits.

Edit: Also with how much arena net likes to reuse mechanics and skill animations across classes I wouldn’t be too surprised if steal becomes the chain from dragon hunter and gives us the ability to pull the enemy.

sebradle.7034:

arenta.2953:

keeping in mind its likely thief will lose steal when they move from theif to the elite mastery profession.
so it could change to a variety of things

heck, thief could lose stealth skills(to be replaced by the elite mastery’s skills)

Yeah thief will lose steal. The only real thing restricting the class mechanic they put in place of steal is traits like mug and sleight of hand that do direct effects to enemies. What ever mechanic they come up with would still need to be enemy targeted or ground targeted in an area to still proc these traits.

while i still thing thief is getting rifle

i am interested to think what steal could change to for rifle OR staff

any ideas?

it has to be something that would work with all thief weapons available…
for rifle(assassin) i’d guess a stationary imitation of shadow refuge that only covers the thief(longer duration but must remain stationary)

for staff(martial artist)….hm….something that works for staff, dagger, and shortbow/pistols…. i guess a short wind deflection sphere(like ranger’s axe skill that reflects projectiles) that lets you evade all dmg and reflect projectiles for the duration…..possibly with a short swiftness boost…while letting you attack normally

hm….that was harder to think of than i thought.

anyone wanna guess?

sebradle.7034:

Edit: Also with how much arena net likes to reuse mechanics and skill animations across classes I wouldn’t be too surprised if steal becomes the chain from dragon hunter and gives us the ability to pull the enemy.

looks at athletic jumping ranger with sword main attack
how i wish they would reuse that ranger animation for thief. so agile and energetic.

For the rifle I was thinking a sniper nest like mechanic like you said that functions kind of like a trap because it would still need to activate mug. Also another mechanic could be a death mark like ability that puts a mark for a duration on an enemy and after the duration is over it deals the damage the enemy took during its duration to the enemy. Would be a kind of a cool burst mechanic.

They could make steal do the reverse when you have a rifle equipped; instead of being a gap closer, it could have a minimum range of like 100, do damage and make you shadow step backwards let’s say 900-1000 distance. But only when rifle is equipped, it would go back to normal steal when you swap to dagger/dagger or whatever, but still shares the same cool down as the rifle steal.

sebradle.7034:

For the rifle I was thinking a sniper nest like mechanic like you said that functions kind of like a trap because it would still need to activate mug. Also another mechanic could be a death mark like ability that puts a mark for a duration on an enemy and after the duration is over it deals the damage the enemy took during its duration to the enemy. Would be a kind of a cool burst mechanic.

Gern.2978:

They could make steal do the reverse when you have a rifle equipped; instead of being a gap closer, it could have a minimum range of like 100, do damage and make you shadow step backwards let’s say 900-1000 distance. But only when rifle is equipped, it would go back to normal steal when you swap to dagger/dagger or whatever, but still shares the same cool down as the rifle steal.

both good ideas (Specially love the mark one)

but what about for staff…its hard to think of what they’d do for that..
cause fitting with daggers, sword, staff, and pistol/shortbow?

For staff going off the speculation that its a ninja could be a fire bomb around you similar to black powder kind of boring for class defining mechanic though but hey so is steal. Also a chain pull like I said falls into that theme.

The thing I’m thinking though is I don’t know if they can ever make mechanic they replace steal with grant stealth because of the hidden thief trait already granting stealth on steal use. If they made the mechanic give stealth the trait would have to extend the stealth time to make the trait actually function when you take it.

Thief Rifle is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

Killua.5730:

Thief Rifle is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

it wouldnt be called thief

it would be called whatever the elite mastery is

so guessing assassin.
or ninja.

its like ranger. ranger with staff would be dumb. so its called druid

arenta.2953:

Killua.5730:

Thief Rifle is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

it wouldnt be called thief

it would be called whatever the elite mastery is

so guessing assassin.
or ninja.

its like ranger. ranger with staff would be dumb. so its called druid

with that logic assassin or ninja rifle is now the dumbest thing i ever heard.

Killua.5730:

arenta.2953:

Killua.5730:

Thief Rifle is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

it wouldnt be called thief

it would be called whatever the elite mastery is

so guessing assassin.
or ninja.

its like ranger. ranger with staff would be dumb. so its called druid

with that logic assassin or ninja rifle is now the dumbest thing i ever heard.

Assassin + sniper

as for ninja

In 1571, a K?ga ninja and sharpshooter by the name of Sugitani Zenjubo was hired to assassinate Nobunaga. Using two arquebuses(early rifles), he fired two consecutive shots at Nobunaga, but was unable to inflict mortal injury through Nobunaga’s armor.

so dumbest? history disagrees.
so moving it into a game. easy eough (i should point out this is the one time sugitani ever failed to kill a target, and 4 months later…it was the death of him. )

hell, it could even be monks.
what kind of monks use a rifle?
Ikko-ikki
the militant Buddhist monks who pushed samurai out of an entire province and ruled it.

arenta.2953:

he fired two consecutive shots at Nobunaga, but was unable to inflict mortal injury through Nobunaga’s armor.

fail. rekt. no rifle kthx. bai

Killua.5730:

arenta.2953:

he fired two consecutive shots at Nobunaga, but was unable to inflict mortal injury through Nobunaga’s armor.

fail. rekt. no rifle kthx. bai

and why not?

“cause its stupid”?
its something thats historical.
and alot of people seem to like it.

you want stupid?
how about someone swinging a stick at something in armor

It could be either, but in the end of the day at least you’re not getting a warhorn.

Pockets.3201:

Thieves can have staff, I don’t want it. Give me main hand dagger.

Sorry, for which class are you requesting dagger? Ranger?

Let’s face it, Arenta – most of this crowd sees anything other than standing up the nearest enemy bum in a giant heap and blasting fire fields all day erry day as a failure and a waste of time.

I am looking so freaking forward to watching the stack-and-burns crash and burn when they try that crud in Heart of Thorns. Just imagine the woe and rabble-rousery that will light these cursed lands when people find out that clumping together like morons and doing nothing but blasting Fire gets them knocked over like bowling pins and they actually need to spread out, watch their positions, and fight wherever they get a chance.

It will be glorious. Unlike the idiotic staff set we’re apparently getting on Thieves. Blegh.

Laraley.7695:

It could be either, but in the end of the day at least you’re not getting a warhorn.

I would have been pysched for thiefhorn actually. When I heard someone was getting shouts, and that there was a war horn, I was hoping the thief spec would be a support thief (Bard or Tactician) with war horn and a line of shouts. Turns out necromancers are getting then shouts for some weird reason. I mean, I don’t mind — shouts are cool, why not give everyone shouts — but a magic class with wells isn’t where I would have started. Engineer shouts, thief shouts, or even mesmer shouts would have made more sense.