Reaper Chill damage formula
That’s game balance stuff, the formula is highly likely to change and releasing such information derails discussions from the area game designers want them. Opinions like:
“Whether it’s cool or not doesn’t matter, the dps is terrible compared to the greatsword lifesteal.” and “Of course it’s fun, it’s the highest dps trait choice for the reaper.” aren’t constructive for hype or design.
“Never Fight Alone” – Sunspear Creed
“There, it’s dead and it’s never coming back!” – Famous last words
“There, it’s dead and it’s never coming back!” – Famous last words
I think all we know is that the damage is based on condition damage.
As quick as the Valkyries ride,
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
so chill now stacks to a maximum of 5 applications. This gonna be tracked for reaper? stacking duration and intensity simultaneously? ie 5 chills: 2,3,4,5,6 seconds means 20 seconds of chill but each stack runs out in the same manner as before, so once 2 seconds ends, its 4 stacks and it counts down on 3s chill. Sounds OP as is (considering chill is only a tidbit less than fear in dmg), but with balance, maybe?
So the wiki now seems to have a damage formula and the chill damage listed was greatly lowered….. Please say its still being debated about its numbers? The way it is now the math says it deals a little more than 1 bleeding and the beta had it barely moving as well…….. The previous numbers that showed it to be half of Terror damage (sort of) looked a lot more promising.
Numbers from beta are not indicative of the final product and are subject to change.
God kitten , why do people have so much trouble realizing this? If the damage is so low as to be useless, it will be buffed. If it’s so high as to be overpowered, it will be nerfed. The point of the beta is to figure this stuff out. The only thing we know about any numbers from HoT is that the numbers we’ve seen are not accurate.
so chill now stacks to a maximum of 5 applications. This gonna be tracked for reaper? stacking duration and intensity simultaneously? ie 5 chills: 2,3,4,5,6 seconds means 20 seconds of chill but each stack runs out in the same manner as before, so once 2 seconds ends, its 4 stacks and it counts down on 3s chill. Sounds OP as is (considering chill is only a tidbit less than fear in dmg), but with balance, maybe?
As far as I know, it stacks in duration, not intensity. The duration can only be increased by 5 sources at any given time.
The chill is based off of condition damage. In the previous beta weekend, the formula was this:
97 + 0.08 condition damage. Multiplied by 1.5 against enemies below 50% health.
In the next beta weekend, the formula is this
194 + 0.16 condition damage. Multiplied by 1.5 against enemies below 50% health.
It stacks in duration, so at any point you’ll only have one stack of Deathly Chill ticking away at any one time. This only affects chill applied by the reaper, so other sources will bump off the damaging chills. This includes other reapers, so this is one of those effects where having multiple reapers will not make multiple Deathly Chills. Which is unfortunate, since given the reaper’s good self buffs Deathly Chill is the highest damage grandmaster.
So, this comes down to consideration. If you are playing with a reaper, do not apply additional chills unless they are not using Deathly Chill. Otherwise you’ll be sapping away 392 DPS average from them (power build).
Numbers from beta are not indicative of the final product and are subject to change.
God kitten , why do people have so much trouble realizing this?
Because it is wrong. Ideas have inertia: they don’t change unless an outside force causes change. Unless you show and tell the developers that something is overpowered or underpowered, it will stay exactly where it is. So, it is best when giving feedback to assume something is going to stay exactly where it is.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Numbers from beta are not indicative of the final product and are subject to change.
God kitten , why do people have so much trouble realizing this?
Meow.
Because it is wrong. Ideas have inertia: they don’t change unless an outside force causes change. Unless you show and tell the developers that something is overpowered or underpowered, it will stay exactly where it is. So, it is best when giving feedback to assume something is going to stay exactly where it is.
In the next beta weekend, the formula is this
194 + 0.16 condition damage. Multiplied by 1.5 against enemies below 50% health
He’s right you know, feedback is the whole point of beta testing. They are in the testing phase so stating that its really low is important to tell them. And that chill formula looks a lot more deadly and shiny.
It really needs to be doubled again. Look at other grandmaster traits that offer a 20% damage increase against enemies. A power build that is doing 10,000 dps gets a 20% boost with a GM trait. that is 2000 dps.
Chill is at best doing 400-500 dps after this latest buff… needs to be doubled again to compete with power builds.
Won’t know that for sure until we test in realm tho. Remember also that they said these are the numbers for the next beta test, they may very well have already started changing it right? What we see now is what we get to test but they said they are often already changing things for the test after this one. So the data we give them this time around will help them decide.
Honestly i don’t think chill needs to do a whole lot of damage, though for a GM trait they might want to add a little functionality, chill is already granted quite a bit of utility by the reaper line, and if it did a whole lot of damage it would be come obligatory for every terrormancer…. quite a few might already take it just so they don’t have to worry about fear doing reduced damage for not having another condition on.
Considering you can get might for hitting a chilled target and the chance to cause an explosion that spreads chill, i don’t think the focus should be about doing damage, but rather being a utility for you.
Honestly i don’t think chill needs to do a whole lot of damage, though for a GM trait they might want to add a little functionality, chill is already granted quite a bit of utility by the reaper line, and if it did a whole lot of damage it would be come obligatory for every terrormancer…. quite a few might already take it just so they don’t have to worry about fear doing reduced damage for not having another condition on.
Considering you can get might for hitting a chilled target and the chance to cause an explosion that spreads chill, i don’t think the focus should be about doing damage, but rather being a utility for you.
I disagree, the trait should compensate for the loss of damage due to investing in chill uptime. The damage needs to be substantial for a grand master which I doubt it will be at the next beta test. Also chilling force is more about life force instead of might and the explosion is power damage not condi.
EverythingOP
Honestly i don’t think chill needs to do a whole lot of damage, though for a GM trait they might want to add a little functionality, chill is already granted quite a bit of utility by the reaper line, and if it did a whole lot of damage it would be come obligatory for every terrormancer…. quite a few might already take it just so they don’t have to worry about fear doing reduced damage for not having another condition on.
Considering you can get might for hitting a chilled target and the chance to cause an explosion that spreads chill, i don’t think the focus should be about doing damage, but rather being a utility for you.
So your logic is that since the other traits improve chill then the GM trait shouldn’t give chill damage?
Does this logic apply to classes like warriors who have traits that give power bonus, so their GM traits should have their 20% damage boost removed?
Or does it apply to ele traits who have traits that improve their direct damage so their GM traits should do nothing as well?
Or is this just a specific thing that only applies to condition users?
It doesn’t need to be condi damage because it spreads your chill, which does condi damage, to other enemies. Also what loss of damage? What would you otherwise be investing in that would gain you all that much condition damage?
I’m not saying it shouldn’t make chill do damage, i’m just saying the damage should be rather low, or else not scale off of condi damage very highly. If it did damage comprable to (for instance) fear, it would be OP because there are far to many ways to apply it (chilling darkness, shivers of dread, plus natural chill applications) and the utility of the condition is pretty good without it doing damage.
It doesn’t need to be condi damage because it spreads your chill, which does condi damage, to other enemies. Also what loss of damage? What would you otherwise be investing in that would gain you all that much condition damage?
Runes, sigils, skills and traits in particular. For instance executioner’s strike does has no condition modifier so using that skill means you’ re not applying conditions, let’s say you take rune of grenth for the chill on heal and + chill duration instead of nightmare in a terror build, sigil of ice instead of sigil of bursting, … .
EverythingOP
Honestly i dont think they will ever have it doing more damage than terror. Its new values put it somewhere around 40~60% of terror or around 1~2 stacks of burn.
Reason i dont think its damage will get cloer to or higher than terror is because its probably balanced around relative uptime and shivers of dread. Chill access is much much easier than fear so it wouldnt follow that it does more damage and also because of shivers of dream the terror trait will always do maximum damage. Essentially hitting someone with a fear under 50% will give than an effective instant 6 stacks of burn.
I’m not saying it shouldn’t make chill do damage, i’m just saying the damage should be rather low, or else not scale off of condi damage very highly. If it did damage comprable to (for instance) fear, it would be OP because there are far to many ways to apply it (chilling darkness, shivers of dread, plus natural chill applications) and the utility of the condition is pretty good without it doing damage.
Why would that be OP?
Necros have no condition burst, and can only do 6-8k dps from their bleeds max, putting them 30% less dps than the top power builds in the game.
Auto attacks from thieves can easily crit for 2k+ damage, more than double that of a fear crit, is that OP?
Typical chill duration is 2-4s, even at 1k damage per tick that would be 2k-4k total damage. Compare that to the following traits:
MINOR trait: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Precision (2k damage burn on crits!)
GM trait: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bolt_to_the_Heart (20% damage increase on EVERY attack)
GM trait: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker%27s_Power (20% damage increase on EVERY attack)
I could go on for every class, but I don’t see why every other class should get 2-3k extra dps except 2-3s chills on necro. All of those traits apply in AOE’s and cleaves as well, so I fail to see how spreading a 3s chill is any different. Also remember that chill only stacks 5 times so if you apply more than 5 chills you get no effect (including chills other people apply) That’s right, other classes can literally steal damage away from necros.
I’m not saying it shouldn’t make chill do damage, i’m just saying the damage should be rather low, or else not scale off of condi damage very highly. If it did damage comprable to (for instance) fear, it would be OP because there are far to many ways to apply it (chilling darkness, shivers of dread, plus natural chill applications) and the utility of the condition is pretty good without it doing damage.
Why would that be OP?
Necros have no condition burst, and can only do 6-8k dps from their bleeds max, putting them 30% less dps than the top power builds in the game.
Auto attacks from thieves can easily crit for 2k+ damage, more than double that of a fear crit, is that OP?
Typical chill duration is 2-4s, even at 1k damage per tick that would be 2k-4k total damage. Compare that to the following traits:
MINOR trait: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Precision (2k damage burn on crits!)
GM trait: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bolt_to_the_Heart (20% damage increase on EVERY attack)
GM trait: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker%27s_Power (20% damage increase on EVERY attack)
I could go on for every class, but I don’t see why every other class should get 2-3k extra dps except 2-3s chills on necro. All of those traits apply in AOE’s and cleaves as well, so I fail to see how spreading a 3s chill is any different. Also remember that chill only stacks 5 times so if you apply more than 5 chills you get no effect (including chills other people apply) That’s right, other classes can literally steal damage away from necros.
Perhaps one day Necromancers too can get a 20% bous damage while under 50% health trait…
I’m not saying it shouldn’t make chill do damage, i’m just saying the damage should be rather low, or else not scale off of condi damage very highly. If it did damage comprable to (for instance) fear, it would be OP because there are far to many ways to apply it (chilling darkness, shivers of dread, plus natural chill applications) and the utility of the condition is pretty good without it doing damage.
Why would that be OP?
Necros have no condition burst, and can only do 6-8k dps from their bleeds max, putting them 30% less dps than the top power builds in the game.
Auto attacks from thieves can easily crit for 2k+ damage, more than double that of a fear crit, is that OP?
Typical chill duration is 2-4s, even at 1k damage per tick that would be 2k-4k total damage. Compare that to the following traits:
MINOR trait: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Precision (2k damage burn on crits!)
GM trait: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bolt_to_the_Heart (20% damage increase on EVERY attack)
GM trait: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker%27s_Power (20% damage increase on EVERY attack)
I could go on for every class, but I don’t see why every other class should get 2-3k extra dps except 2-3s chills on necro. All of those traits apply in AOE’s and cleaves as well, so I fail to see how spreading a 3s chill is any different. Also remember that chill only stacks 5 times so if you apply more than 5 chills you get no effect (including chills other people apply) That’s right, other classes can literally steal damage away from necros.
Perhaps one day Necromancers too can get a 20% bous damage while under 50% health trait…
Condition builds don’t gain any benefit from increased damage traits, putting them further behind other builds already, even for the classes that do have access to multiple damage traits.
If they made damage increase traits count for condition builds too then they might actually be wanted in PvE in certain circumstances.
Technically most terror masters will have chill always in effect, thats a skill/movement debuff and consistent damage dealt. To say its somewhat weak when 90% of condi users will choose to use it is an exaggeration. I agree that the damage should and probably will be placed at 40-60% of Terror as it makes the most sense. As it is currently choosing reaper gives better burn application in shroud, stability, an extra stun and chill field, plus 11 poison whirl if all hit. Again all reasonable arguements are void until next beta test is run and we see just how strong it is.