Guild Wars 2

To me, Reaper looks bloody fantastic.

But that’s all it does. It looks cool. But when you look at the numbers, and what the skills actually do, it does nothing for the necromancer in general (a class that’s been left in the dust for a long time in terms of what it needs to be on par with the other classes). All of the core issues with the class are still glaringly present. Chronomancer got a skill to make them key to party content, as well as a 25% speed boost in their kit (something requested for a long, long time), dragonhunter (crappy name aside) gets powerful long ranged attacks, something they were sorely lacking.

Reaper? All reaper gets is what we’ve always had. damage. Necro still has no decent party utility and will still be an outlier of the metagame. On top of that the greatsword skills look so sluggish that to be viable in pvp as a reaper would require almost 100% shroud uptime (chill doesn’t mean jack with the about of condi cleanse available).

I’m still holding out hope for the mentioned blood magic trait line rework, but don’t be blinded by aesthetics, people. Look at the numbers and what the specialisations actually bring to the table

rapthorne.7345:

Chronomancer got a skill to make them key to party content, as well as a 25% speed boost in their kit (something requested for a long, long time), dragonhunter (crappy name aside) gets powerful long ranged attacks, something they were sorely lacking.

Reaper? All reaper gets is what we’ve always had. damage. Necro still has no decent party utility and will still be an outlier of the metagame. On top of that the greatsword skills look so sluggish that to be viable in pvp as a reaper would require almost 100% shroud uptime (chill doesn’t mean jack with the about of condi cleanse)

Mesmers needed a new main hand and got an offhand. The chronomancer makes them attractive to more group content though.

Also, like you said: Mesmers needed more party skills they got it, Guardians needed a long range weapon they got it. Necromancers needed a cleaving melee weapon and that’s what they got.

Another thing, Chill is probably one of the most detrimental conditions on classes with little condition removal (Mesmer….). They also have constant application of stability in the new death shroud. Yeah their sluggish, but they have great stability and constant chill.

We got something we needed, as said above. But the damage still isn’t quite there. It’s too slow, and we don’t have the modifiers to bring out the damage we need it seems. We could also use some unique group utility that doesn’t compete with our ability do deal damage.

It’s getting there, but unfortunately, I predict more nerfs than buffs will come to Reaper before launch…

Class didn’t need a cleaving weapon. That’s why they added the second attack to dagger. What the class needed was to have a reason to be invited to a group. To do this you either increase the base damage up to the point where their damage is the reason they’re brought and it’s at such a premium you can ignore the fact the class brings nothing of value to the group. Or you increase the damage slightly and dramatically improve the value of the utility it does bring or give it access to other things a group needs.

Right now the Necro has one of the lowest DPS values (about where utility guardians and banner/shout warriors are) while providing none of the utility these classes bring. This is what needed improving. The DPS:Utility ratio.

Now I haven’t timed the actual skills from the video to verify they have no global cooldown or after cast animation, but their DPS values are about on par with dagger auto attack from what we’ve seen. That’s not enough now. And obviously the damage numbers aren’t finalized either.

But you need to ask yourself… how high would a Necromancer’s DPS need in comparison to an Ele or Thief to offset the fact that the utility the class brings is useless? I’m not sure we want to go in that direction.

LumAnth.5124:

Another thing, Chill is probably one of the most detrimental conditions on classes with little condition removal (Mesmer….). They also have constant application of stability in the new death shroud. Yeah their sluggish, but they have great stability and constant chill.

Mesmer’s will be getting much improved condition removal in HOT… Mesmers can now take Shattered Conditions and Mender’s Purity without totally wrecking our shatter effectiveness (loss of IP). Chronomancer has the awesome Time Marches trait that helps combat this soft CC.

But back on topic, I agree with OP, it seems reaper hit the homerun on coolness, but I dont think it does much for the necro class as a whole. Did the necro community really wanted a melee based specialization to enhance the class?

Maybe not necessarily a weapon, but the new DS? Definitely. I HATE life blast with a passion. It’s clunky, slow and janky with its piercing. The new DS is better, cleaves, has better synergy etc.

Unfortunately, the lack of group utility is because of the poor decisions on shouts. They could have added something unique.

rapthorne.7345:

To me, Reaper looks bloody fantastic.

But that’s all it does. It looks cool. But when you look at the numbers, and what the skills actually do, it does nothing for the necromancer in general (a class that’s been left in the dust for a long time in terms of what it needs to be on par with the other classes). All of the core issues with the class are still glaringly present. Chronomancer got a skill to make them key to party content, as well as a 25% speed boost in their kit (something requested for a long, long time), dragonhunter (crappy name aside) gets powerful long ranged attacks, something they were sorely lacking.

Reaper? All reaper gets is what we’ve always had. damage. Necro still has no decent party utility and will still be an outlier of the metagame. On top of that the greatsword skills look so sluggish that to be viable in pvp as a reaper would require almost 100% shroud uptime (chill doesn’t mean jack with the about of condi cleanse available).

I’m still holding out hope for the mentioned blood magic trait line rework, but don’t be blinded by aesthetics, people. Look at the numbers and what the specialisations actually bring to the table

reaper is fairly well designed, except for the shouts, and maybe some dps tweaks. The things you want are things the base necro is supposed to provide, not really the reaper. The specs are not supposed to fix the class, just add some new/different playstyles. The core is where basic class fixes should be..

necros main problem is the meta, not so much that they bring nothing.

The things they are good at, have low value, however, some of the changes to the game may change their position.
If enemies attack faster/have more abilities
If enemy skipping is less meta
changes to conditions

and yeah, necro needed a melee style, 2 targets on dagger wasnt going to be enough/DS was boring

from what i see the GS use more as utility to control alongside with chill on AA .
chill in melee is a huge advantage yo must consider when you fight with a group who can burst with you when needed

maybe 1v1 GS is slow and dagger would be better choice

also DS new skills are amazing (maybe nerf in the future)

and the ability to gain fast life force then before make the necro more dangerous

I must admit a lot of my hype is because they just look so cool. And I love greatswords… my love of greatswords goes back many years to the days of FF7 and Berserk.

There are some good things going on for the Reaper, but it’s lack of a 1200’ range gap closer is just not going to work. Spectral Grasp, rarely hits anything. I dunno if things dodge, or it’s LOS with a rock in the road… but it’s about as reliable as the minion’s AI.

…which they didn’t fix.

Necro should be a good condition class, but it’s really not. Other classes stack bleeds so much faster… and now they’ll be stacking burning…

….but from what I can see, necros won’t be stacking poison, and their burning delivery system, dumbfire, is severely lacking.

Chill is nice, but it isn’t everything. I’ve played a chill-o-mancer.. it’s highly overrated.

As-far-as group utility goes, the unknown changes to vampiric traits, and some aura they are working on, from what little is known, it looks good, and I have high hopes….

…but more-and-more, having high hopes for the necro, is a lot like having high hopes for your favorite character on game of thrones.

The Shouts are useless. No one is going to use them. Contrary to popular belief, necros are not amazing at dealing with conditions, and those utility slots will likely continue to be devoted to condition/boon removal, run speed, whatever…

Mesmers strait-up, got some amazing traits, and most important 25% run speed. There really is nothing bad with what Mesmers got, but as someone else mentioned, they really could have used a better main hand weapon.

Guards, sadly, did not get 25% run speed, but what they got blows my mind. And the possibility of a regen elite signet, yes please!

Being freed from AH+EM, or meditations, would be so amazing, and it’s the perfect time for it, because the trait changes they made… there are just so many good options for builds, and you don’t feel pigeon-toed like you do with the necro.

If the reveal video for dragon hunter had a distraught guard, crying because he couldn’t protect his friends, enraged, and with no one left to protect, vowing to kill every last one of the dragons, and anything they’ve come in contact with…. people would have thought it was the greatest thing ever.

I think people like the OP are completely blind since the darn thing is still in BETA and they’re already complaining.

I think this elite spec. Deserves it’s hype. I feel the longest running problem with the necro was ds. The new shroud brings so much back to the necromancer and makes there profession mechanic viable. DS. Had very little to offer and was primarily used as a panic mode to reserve health, now we have amazing cleave, stability, a gap closer, whirl finisher, cc with the ice field, fear, party rezzing, life force gained on auto attack, and the ability to siphon life to your hp bar while in death shroud.

They fixed the necromancers biggest flaw in my opinion, and that was death shroud. That alone makes up for a lot of what I thought was wrong with the necro, and there’s still more improvements made that I didn’t talk about.

Even with this, and everything else they did for the necro, I agree with what phys said. These elites are not meant to fix the base class, but to bring other playstyles forward for those classes. Problems with the necromancer will have to be fixed in the base class.

I think they did a great job on the reaper. Seeing such an improvement to death shroud absolutely earns the reaper it’s hype imo. Survivability improved, cleave improved, cc improved, support improved.

And it all looks absolutely stunning

Ephemiel.5694:

I think people like the OP are completely blind since the darn thing is still in BETA and they’re already complaining.

You don’t know how early production feedback works do you? If anything is going to get fixed it has a MUCH higher change at being looked at in these stages. Thats what sharing information and testing is all about…

ronpierce.2760:

Ephemiel.5694:

I think people like the OP are completely blind since the darn thing is still in BETA and they’re already complaining.

You don’t know how early production feedback works do you? If anything is going to get fixed it has a MUCH higher change at being looked at in these stages. Thats what sharing information and testing is all about…

You don’t know what i meant and simply wanted to run your mouth, did you? The spec is still in beta, this means it’ll get changes and yet people are complaining about its numbers like they were final.

Ephemiel.5694:

ronpierce.2760:

Ephemiel.5694:

I think people like the OP are completely blind since the darn thing is still in BETA and they’re already complaining.

You don’t know how early production feedback works do you? If anything is going to get fixed it has a MUCH higher change at being looked at in these stages. Thats what sharing information and testing is all about…

You don’t know what i meant and simply wanted to run your mouth, did you? The spec is still in beta, this means it’ll get changes and yet people are complaining about its numbers like they were final.

You didn’t read what he wrote and just wanted to run your mouth didn’t you?

He said it’s in beta so now’s the time to raise concerns. Your opinion of ‘ignore it and everything will work in the end’ is how you end up with the current Necromancer.

Atherakhia.4086:

Ephemiel.5694:

ronpierce.2760:

Ephemiel.5694:

I think people like the OP are completely blind since the darn thing is still in BETA and they’re already complaining.

You don’t know how early production feedback works do you? If anything is going to get fixed it has a MUCH higher change at being looked at in these stages. Thats what sharing information and testing is all about…

You don’t know what i meant and simply wanted to run your mouth, did you? The spec is still in beta, this means it’ll get changes and yet people are complaining about its numbers like they were final.

You didn’t read what he wrote and just wanted to run your mouth didn’t you?

He said it’s in beta so now’s the time to raise concerns. Your opinion of ‘ignore it and everything will work in the end’ is how you end up with the current Necromancer.

Did i say “ignore it and everything will work out”? Learn to read for once, i said it’s beta and it’ll be changed. Use those brains you got.

Ephemiel.5694:

Atherakhia.4086:

Ephemiel.5694:

ronpierce.2760:

Ephemiel.5694:

I think people like the OP are completely blind since the darn thing is still in BETA and they’re already complaining.

You don’t know how early production feedback works do you? If anything is going to get fixed it has a MUCH higher change at being looked at in these stages. Thats what sharing information and testing is all about…

You don’t know what i meant and simply wanted to run your mouth, did you? The spec is still in beta, this means it’ll get changes and yet people are complaining about its numbers like they were final.

You didn’t read what he wrote and just wanted to run your mouth didn’t you?

He said it’s in beta so now’s the time to raise concerns. Your opinion of ‘ignore it and everything will work in the end’ is how you end up with the current Necromancer.

Did i say “ignore it and everything will work out”? Learn to read for once, i said it’s beta and it’ll be changed. Use those brains you got.

Feedback helps them make appropriate changes that are both meaningful and generally accepted. Lack of feedback leads to disasters. Necromancers aren’t new to that. The community is smarter (sometimes, not everyone) than people let on. Being a game Developer doesn’t often grant someone perfect intuition, especially since there are a lot of classes and not a balance team for each. People who play this game put a LOT of time and math to work for their tests. Sometimes it’s best to not ignore them and it’s useful feedback. There’s no reason to not give feedback now versus later.

Since the discussion in this thread has derailed and is no longer constructive this thread is now closed.