Guild Wars 2

Old experiment with capucin monkeys, both get the same task, they have to return a stone. When both get a cucumber nothing is wrong, BUT wwhen 1 gets a grape and the other gets a cucumber all hell breaks loose.

If you have 2 ppl do they same they expecty the same reward, This goes for a huge amount of species on this planet.

PPL have bought seocnd vanilla accounts before , to give away or to farm laurels and pay for their legendaries/ armors and so on.

When you give half the people the basic version and HoT they are happy
When you give veterans only HoT they feel like they get the cucumber.

SO give all ppl who buy this an added serial for the vanilla account. Problem solved.

You commerce ppl made this happen, you deal with it.

It’s a prepurchase bonus. When the game is released it will just be the expansion. Pre-purchase isn’t about being fair. It’s about giving bonuses. If you don’t like it then wait until the game is released and everything will be “fair” again.

Are you calling me a MONKEY!??

Well darwinism says we are most likely very closely related to apes and monkeys and the humans here have been acting a bit like the monkeys in this test, maybe you want to draw your own conclusions?

But for real, this behaviour and this has been observed by all (higher intelligent(?)) mammals… including elephants, dolphins, canines and other animals with a highly evolved social behaviour…., so you think about it.

And for me? I bought the ultimate when I saw 1 word on the log in page -pre-purchase-. I do not care about 1 character slot, I have 18 at this time, not counting the Beta slot
Nor do I care about additional farm accounts, but if the purchase options would be changed I’d appreciated being treated fair as well.

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s a prepurchase bonus. When the game is released it will just be the expansion. Pre-purchase isn’t about being fair. It’s about giving bonuses. If you don’t like it then wait until the game is released and everything will be “fair” again.

Heart of Thorns standard is the new base game as vanilla alone is no longer an option. Vanilla can be labeled as ‘free’ but until people can play vanilla with no purchase, that’s not really true. The issue is that a new player gets far more content for the same price than an existing player.

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s a prepurchase bonus. When the game is released it will just be the expansion. Pre-purchase isn’t about being fair. It’s about giving bonuses. If you don’t like it then wait until the game is released and everything will be “fair” again.

What is your evidence for the proposition that it is only a pre-purchase bonus?

From the store page: “Pre-Purchase Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns before launch day and receive: Access to All Beta Weekend Events, Exclusive Title*”

Not: Copy of base game.

From the HOT FAQ:
“Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion?

A: Yes, but Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns includes the Guild Wars 2 core game."

Not: Yes, but if you pre-purchase Guild Wars2: Heart of Thorns the Guild Wars 2 core game is included."

I can’t keep stressing this enough.

People who bought Guild Wars 2 on the $10 weekends are in the same boat. They paid $10 while I paid $60 at launch. For the base game, I paid more. And they got more bang for their buck, a bargain deal/discount. More content per dollar spent, if you will.

People who bash Arena Net for including the core base game for free (without Seasons 1, 2, or any previous holiday events or locked content) to new players so that they can play the game and be on par with current players, then those same people need to bash Arena Net for having any sort of sale whatsoever, including the $10 sale weekends. Why? Because they got more bang for their buck, they got a bargain deal/discount.

People that complain about Arena Net for being unfair in this respect, are in this same boat.

Shoot. Where’s MY Veteran Refund? Doggonit, I deserve it! Actually, you don’t.

Here’s the thing: Veterans got Seasons 1 and Seasons 2 of living world included in the $60 purchase (if you logged in within the 2 week periods), we got to play content that new players are [possibly] permanently locked out of (Season 1) and must pay for to play through (Season 2). Whether or not veterans feel the $60 purchase was worth it for every 2-week-content release is up to them to decide. But that’s a different topic.

As far as including a free, core base game for all players, that becomes an issue. Why? Let me use points by Bog Otter to explain this:*
+ Allowing all players to have a free code for the base game means that for every player who redeems these free codes, they only have the base game and not the expansion (Which, I’m pretty sure, isn’t Arena Net’s intention. They want every purchase from here on out to include the expansion, since all future living story and content updates will, most likely, require the expansion.)

Let’s say 1,000,000 veteran players buy the expansion. This means:

+ 1,000,000 free base game codes are out there that veterans can give to people.
+ 1,000,000 players wouldn’t have the expansion.
+ After being given a free code, the people that buy the expansion now also get a free code? That would essentially mean a perpetual supply of free codes and the cycle would continue.

Giving a free code to every person who purchases the game doesn’t make much sense, and Arena Net probably isn’t going to do that. You might as well make the base game free for everyone in this case.

I think this idea came about because veterans didn’t think twice about the $10 sale weekends GW2 had, and they didn’t realize that the base core game was added after the fact as a free bonus to new players and has no effect on the price of the expansion.

The difference between this and a sale is that a sale is:
a) Expected after a while and
b) A different price for the same thing.

Heart of Thorns is the same price for two vastly different things.

that long post is based on a false analogy so I didn’t bothered to read it
as for this being only temorary, it is not, here is a mail from support, which explicitly states that the expansion will never be sold by itself

Another difference is that anyone could buy vanilla GW2 for $10 during the sales. I bought a farming account.

In this case, veterans get only part of the offered purchase no matter what they do if they don’t want to lose all progress. The core game is lost, unlike with the sales.

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s a prepurchase bonus. When the game is released it will just be the expansion. Pre-purchase isn’t about being fair. It’s about giving bonuses. If you don’t like it then wait until the game is released and everything will be “fair” again.

The problem is this. I’ve been with this game for 3 years. I’ve spent thousands ( over 3k) hours in it. I’ve spent hundreds of dollars on the gem store. I love the game.

I feel pretty bad when I see Anet’s recent focus has been almost exclusively oriented towards new players. New players get this, new players get that. Old players? Not a lot.

I don’t mind that HoT comes with a free copy of the core game if you’re a new player. It’s a viable and useful strategy to sell more.
I mind that new players once again take the center stage while veterans that have been with this game through thick and thin, through content drought and bad balance issues are left staring at the sun.
Why couldn’t they have added some nice bonus for veteran players? Maybe give the character slot for free. Maybe give us a unique skin, armor piece, title, trinket or shout. Anything.

I’m upset because for a long time veterans have been getting nothing, no recognition for their love and support for the game.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Well darwinism says we are most likely very closely related to apes and monkeys

Actually it’s scientific fact, there’s no “likely” involved.

Ferguson.2157:

Are you calling me a MONKEY!??

How dare he.

We’re apes, thank you very much.

Harper.4173:

I feel pretty bad when I see Anet’s recent focus has been almost exclusively oriented towards new players. New players get this, new players get that. Old players? Not a lot.
…
I’m upset because for a long time veterans have been getting nothing, no recognition for their love and support for the game.

That’s the problem with the B2P model — once they get your money, they really don’t need to give a kitten about you, they make more $$ chasing new players not providing content for old players except as far as it will coerce you to spend $ in the cash shop.

I think it’s a pretty cynically cheap move not to include a char slot in an expansion that adds a class. If that’s not screwing your playerbase, I don’t know what is.

The other thing is there doesn’t seem like much content for $50. I don’t really care that much about PVE zones anyway so I won’t be buying it – the value is just not there.

lol – I am a monkey after all! At least I feel like one after trying to post up an image.

[img]http://33x5bs39d3jhnwvvr3uyk6zm.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/pix/2012/08/Hear-No-Evil-See-No-Evil-Speak-No-Evil.jpg[/img]

I don’t mind not getting content geared exclusively towards veterans ( I get why they’re not doing it and won’t – bad business) but we could at least get something that’s not too hard to do like a title or a minipet or something.
I want them to understand that new players aren’t everything and that this game is alive more because of the people logging in day after day completing the open world for the 8-9th time, doing dungeons for the 300th time and helping and teaching and showing the world of Tyria to those new players.

This deal is fair. The Expansion costs 50 dollars (simple as that, exclusive offer or not it would cost 50$). The core is an exclusive offer to new players so they are all set up without confusion.

Exclusive offers are perfectly normal under specific conditions.

The real problem is that people are jealous their don’t qualify for the core game.

Its like when you go to the bank. If you’re an existing customer great… but for our new customers we have a contest when you sign up you get a tablet for free. TD Bank does this all the time. But I guess people feel empowered over the internet to take charge and disrespect the game and developers without realizing these are people with families and careers, dedicating all their time to this project.

What they did in terms of the bundle is a common practice. An exclusive offer, strategy used to bring new customers. This matter needs to be viewed in a business standpoint. The real world outside your 4 little walls.

Your weekly flyers have sales: From specific dates. if you buy the item before or after those dates you maybe out of luck.. and for those 3 years early… you got the game 3 years early. It’s so simple to understand.

The only people who should be POed are those that bought the game because they told people back in January in the FAQ that a copy of the game was required.

Complain about the price but not this jealous rage that new players are getting something you likely had for months if not years. You’re the little sibling that inherits big sibling’s bike while they get a new one but you both get new helmets and you’re upset you aren’t getting a new bike as well.

ANet would have saved a ton of this blow back if they decided and announced publicly , in no uncertain terms, that HoT is a new stand alone game. But if you applyed it to your existing account you get to use your existing characters and bank. Also make it clear that there wouldn’t be a delta cost version. But no. They said expansion and know they are reaping what the sowed.

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP’s argument.

The anger voiced by many is not inspired by greed, but by moral outrage. This is illustrated by:

- Strong emotional reaction – morality is very much based in emotion.
(Greed is more calculating, and any outrage inspired by greed is merely staged.)

- Various accusations aimed at ArenaNet that paint them as immoral or evil – very moral terms.
(Greedy players would rather paint ArenaNet as cheap or selfish – very economical terms.)

- None of the angry players says anything negative about the new players who would receive a better deal.
(If they were greedy, they would be more envious of the new players.)

- Angry players demand an apology and rectification from ArenaNet.
(Greedy players would just settle for more stuff and not bother with apologies.)

My impression is that the sales managers at ArenaNet have vastly underestimated the perception of inequality that their pricing scheme evoked. ArenaNet needs to address this adequately, or their long-term reputation may suffer.

Oh, and the counterargument claiming that “veteran players are greedy because they don’t realize what they got over the past three years” is sadly mistaken. The thing is that all these players have already paid for that by purchasing the game in the first place.

Finally, why does the occasional price reduction in the base game not bother existing players as much as this deal? Because it is very typical of any product to decrease in value over time. A used car is less valuable than a new one. A three-year-old game is worth less than the upcoming next-big-thing-with-super-graphics.

Why people are mad: Entitlement.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Old experiment with capucin monkeys, both get the same task, they have to return a stone. When both get a cucumber nothing is wrong, BUT wwhen 1 gets a grape and the other gets a cucumber all hell breaks loose.

Snip…

A great video, I am shocked that anyone needs fairness explained to them, but apparently some do, especially Arena Net.

evoRobot.4019:

[too long to look good in a quote]

the deal isn’t fair

1) anet can choose a price for their products be it on sale, expansion, or whatever
2) people agree to pay the price and get a product in return
3) a fair treatment of customers is to give everyone who paid the price the same value product in return (notice how it doesn’t matter whether you have an acc or not when you buy the game on sale)
4) in this case we have 2 user groups: new players and old players
5) both groups pay the same price
6) the products they get in return are not equal of value:
*new players get core game + expansion
*old players get expansion

bonus) another false analogy: in the scenario in the bank you describe, the new customers do not get access to special services unavailable to the old customers upon signing up, that’s why it is perfectly fair

well, i’m mad because not including a char slot in an expansion that adds a class is a pretty kitteny & cynical move, that’s for sure.

the other thing I think people are mad about is there doesn’t seem to be a lot of content for $50, ie: the value isn’t there.

$50 for a class and a few PVE zones is pretty bad value IMO.

I don’t understand why having access to a game years earlier than new players as well as rewards and experiences that will never happen again puts us at a disadvantage when the same game (which has been discounted to 10 dollars several times, mind you) is given to new players in an effort to encourage them to play.

When people buy game consoles and play them until they’re obsolete, then see them being offered for a third, a fifth, even an eighth of their price commercially by the same vendors that sold it to them full price, that’s perfectly acceptable.

But when Arenanet does it it’s an outrage?

I don’t agree.

Bought the game on release. Don’t mind the $50 price tag. Would like it if veteran accounts got a bonus character slot with xpack.

It’s an exclusive offer and a common practice in business.

The bank has periods of time where you can open a certain account for free, like a waterhouse account, or high savings account. Someone might have opened one a few years ago and missed that offer, but still has the same services as the person who will receive it for free today.

Between those years the person who missed the offer got to build their credit, receive interest and save their money. But the new person must start from the ground up.

This is the exact same situation here.

So tell me where the difference is.

because my dear Azure The Heartless, this is not the same thing
it is not fair that two different groups of people pay the same price and get different products

there is no “free bonus” for the people that already have an account, the only way to get the new content is to pay for the version with the bonus, only don’t get any kind of bonus. What makes the people who don’t have an account deserving of a bonus, and the others not…?

I’d also like to refer you to my post which is the second above yours

nah thats to far away from reality here.

Price of Hot is ok

But anet missed a chance to hype there game also missed a amazing chance to get more players with new players plus the old ones back.

they could have made the xpact for free
than charge people 30 Dollar for the Core game plus expansion for free.

Anets playerbased could have doubled (i dont know) more costumer more gemshop more hype more costumer more gemshop……

u need plan ur money in the long run is always my moto.

evoRobot.4019:

It’s an exclusive offer and a common practice in business.

The bank has periods of time where you can open a certain account for free, like a waterhouse account, or high savings account. Someone might have opened one a few years ago and missed that offer, but still has the same services as the person who will receive it for free today.

Between those years the person who missed the offer got to build their credit, receive interest and save their money. But the new person must start from the ground up.

This is the exact same situation here.

So tell me where the difference is.

the difference is equal opportunity:
during the designated period everyone can receive and account in the bank for free
in this case however not everyone can receive a free copy of the core game

i had explained it quite thoroughly i believe

piano man.1672:

-cut-

evoRobot.4019:

-cut

Azure The Heartless.3261:

-cut-

Your comparisons make no sense.
This isn’t some discount/bargain sale like the ones they did so far.
While the product bought was the same, since it was bought during different timeframes, it was perfectly reasonable to have discounts.
But now both veterans and new players are buying the exact same product – that is, Heart of Thorns – at the same time, from the same place, at the same price.
And both should receive the same thing – a copy of the base game, and the expansion.
Yet this isn’t happening – veterans aren’t getting their free, new copy of the base game.
If the company doesn’t want people to have spare core game keys…well, that’s just their fault, as they should have chosen other ways to handle the situation. Like a different offer for already existing players, with either a reduced price or something else to make up for that core game key.
But unless or until they do so, “veteran” players have every right to complain about this situation.

the difference is equal opportunity:
during the designated period everyone can receive and account in the bank for free
in this case however not everyone can receive a free copy of the core game

i had explained it quite thoroughly i believe

You already have the account, they refuse to open you the same one again.

You and the new customer have the exact same service. But you are upset / jealous they receive this exclusive offer… Instead you can just be happy for them and wish them the best of luck.

Balsa.3951:

nah thats to far away from reality here.

Price of Hot is ok

But anet missed a chance to hype there game also missed a amazing chance to get more players with new players plus the old ones back.

they could have made the xpact for free
than charge people 30 Dollar for the Core game plus expansion for free.

Anets playerbased could have doubled (i dont know) more costumer more gemshop more hype more costumer more gemshop……

u need plan ur money in the long run is always my moto.

Nope. The bulk of the sales will come from existing players and therefore it would be monumentally dumb to make it free to existing owners of the game.

Stock analysts look at WoW, see a fifty dollar (kitten filter) expansion, mandates that’s the price every expansion should be. Corporate not wanting to disappoint the analysts and the stockholders who listen to them convey the price point strongly to their wholly own subsidiary.

The customers at E3, retailers, insist on a fully working game and not just an expansion (since ANet isn’t EA or Blizzard) and the expansion suddenly becomes a standalone that acts an a expansion if you already owned the game. The only thing that changed from the $50 price for an expansion is it acting like a standalone game if you don’t currently have an account. This bone thrown to new players has brought out a rather dark side of the playerbase.

It’s sad really.

I don’t have a problem with new players getting a great deal, my problem is with the poor perception ANet has generated through its actions.

In the past few months we saw the game for 75% off three times, each time coinciding with a big HoT announcement, so that created this impression that the expansion would be sold in the $30~$40 range (the reasoning would be to ease new players into the game and not make them pay $70~$80 for core and HoT).

We sure as hell didn’t see an avalanche of complaints about new players potentially paying $40~$50 for both core and HoT under that scheme, so why are so many people making an issue of new players paying $50 for both core and HoT under this new scheme?

To be clear I think $50 is too much given the list of features we know will be in the expansion, I don’t believe the list of features is going to change much (as it hasn’t changed at all with all the past announcements, only details have been added to what we know will be included), so I don’t agree with the arguments that we can’t judge the pricing on currently available information. Ultimately that’s just me though, I’m not going to tell someone they’re wrong if they personally feel it’s $50 any more than I would tell someone they’re wrong for supporting GW2 by buying gems with cash.

Manuhell.2759:

Your comparisons make no sense.
This isn’t some discount/bargain sale like the ones they did so far

Yeah this is a discount, exclusive sale for NEW PLAYERS

While the product bought was the same, since it was bought during different timeframes, it was perfectly reasonable to have discounts.
But now both veterans and new players are buying the exact same product – that is, Heart of Thorns – at the same time, from the same place, at the same price.
And both should receive the same thing – a copy of the base game, and the expansion.

You can receive the core game if you wish for that core game to be attached to the expansion, JUST LIKE the new person who is doing the EXACT SAME THING.

evoRobot.4019:

You already have the account, they refuse to open you the same one again.

You and the new customer have the exact same service. But you are upset / jealous they receive this exclusive offer… Instead you can just be happy for them and wish them the best of luck.

We do not get the same service, as I said before, were I to buy the expansion I get HoT (I have already paid for my account), whereas a new user gets GW2 + HoT
that is clearly not the same thing
Why can’t I get the same product? The fact that I have bought an account beforehand does not change the current situation

I have nothing against potential new users, and I wish them the best of luck indeed, but that is simply not fair

@Manuhell.2759, thanks for the precise explanation about those false analogies with other exlusive offers that are quite different from the present case

There really is no free bonus. Here’s a breakdown:

1) You can’t buy vanilla on its own anymore.
2) Heart of Thorns standard edition is the base game now.
3) New players pay $50 for the entire vanilla world and the expansion area.
4) Existing players have to purchase the base game as it stand now to get the expansion.
5) The only people that won’t have access to new features are existing players that are too put off by this inequality of value.
6) Other people purchased the game because the FAQ specifically stated (prior to yesterday) that it would be required for Heart of Thorns. The only solution offered to people in this situation is to request a refund and buy the game again. This results in their current account being terminated (and all progress lost).

This would not be an issue if one of the following:

1) You could simply play vanilla with no purchase at all. Then it really would be a free inclusion (though trivially).
2) Upgrading via Heart of Thorns standard gave some additional bonus (E.g. character slots to use the popular demand) that didn’t come with the creation of a new account with Heart of Thorns.

I do not:

1) Think the expansion should be free.
2) Think 50$ is too much (for some, it may be, but that’s really a matter of perceived value rather than two unequal things sold for the same price).
3) Have a strong opinion on what is in the expansion against the price.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I don’t understand why having access to a game years earlier than new players as well as rewards and experiences that will never happen again puts us at a disadvantage when the same game (which has been discounted to 10 dollars several times, mind you) is given to new players in an effort to encourage them to play.

When people buy game consoles and play them until they’re obsolete, then see them being offered for a third, a fifth, even an eighth of their price commercially by the same vendors that sold it to them full price, that’s perfectly acceptable.

But when Arenanet does it it’s an outrage?

I don’t agree.

Because me having the game earlier than said new players and having all the rewards they missed out on was not a random happening – it was a choice.
I chose to buy the game and they chose not to. I spent money on it and they did not.
So in a sense they could have had all these things if they at the same time as me had made the same choice. They chose differently and their choice leads to them not having these items and rewards.

The problem is that in the situation we have now I have no choice. See – they could have bought the game back then. But I have no choice when Anet decides to focus on them and ignore veteran players. It was decided for me.

The problem here is not the price ( at least not for me) but the focus.

People who have objectively done nothing for the franchise(since they haven’t even bought the game yet) or have done very little and who have not supported it for a long period of time are getting more developer “love” than the people that have been with the game since day 1 and put in thousands of hours.
To me that’s a problem.

KGS.9842:

evoRobot.4019:

You already have the account, they refuse to open you the same one again.

You and the new customer have the exact same service. But you are upset / jealous they receive this exclusive offer… Instead you can just be happy for them and wish them the best of luck.

We do not get the same service, as I said before, were I to buy the expansion I get HoT (I have already paid for my account), whereas a new user gets GW2 + HoT
that is clearly not the same thing
Why can’t I get the same product? The fact that I have bought an account beforehand does not change the current situation

I have nothing against potential new users, and I wish them the best of luck indeed, but that is simply not fair

You can buy the same package deal and get the exact same service, but instead you are asking for something special thats not being offered.

You’re not considering alot of things like you bought the game full price so you can play early. That the game depreciates over time.

Its cruel you want to take something away from someone new so you can feel better. Its very childish.

I hope anet doesn’t give in. Because you can either take it or leave it

evoRobot.4019:

You can buy the same package deal and get the exact same service, but instead you are asking for something special thats not being offered.

You’re not considering alot of things like you bought the game full price so you can play early. That the game depreciates over time.

Its cruel you want to take something away from someone new so you can feel better. Its very childish.

I hope anet doesn’t give in. Because you can either take it or leave it

for buying the game earlier i will refer you to Harper.4173’s post above yours

so in the current situation this choice is forced upon me: either forsake the “free bonus”, or forsake my current progress because I cannot buy the expansion separately
how is that fair?

I don’t want to take anything away from anybody, what I want is every person to be treated equally when it comes to buying the expansion

I hope that anet “gives in” because otherwise they might start thinking that they can just do whatever the kitten they want, and their users will just put up with it

evoRobot.4019:

Yeah this is a discount, exclusive sale for NEW PLAYERS

And that’s wrong.
Both old and new players are buying the same product, at the same price, during the same timeframe.
Both should receive the same thing – core game and expansion.

evoRobot.4019:

You can receive the core game if you wish for that core game to be attached to the expansion, JUST LIKE the new person who is doing the EXACT SAME THING.

That would just make me a sort of new player.
As above, both old and new players are buying the same product, at the same price, during the same timeframe.
Both should receive the same thing.
Since this isn’t happening, old players have every right to complain.

SO you don’t care the new person recieves the expansion.. and we are both paying 50 dollars, so what do you want? You guys are comparing yourselves to monkeys and saying its unfair compared to the new players.

We can both buy the expansion right now for 50$ and get brand new accounts, theres the fair deal.

Instead you are mad that someone new who never played the game after 3 years of existence will get it for free because it makes their life alittle easier.

The problem is you guys want to be better than the new player and want some kind of attention to show this dominance, just like APES!

evoRobot.4019:

SO you don’t care the new person recieves the expansion.. and we are both paying 50 dollars, so what do you want? You guys are comparing yourselves to monkeys and saying its unfair compared to the new players.

*We can both buy the expansion right now for 50$ and get brand new accounts, theres the fair deal. *

Instead you are mad that someone new who never played the game after 3 years of existence will get it for free because it makes their life alittle easier.

The problem is you guys want to be better than the new player and want some kind of attention to show this dominance, just like APES!

Yes, we can all buy the expansion for 50$ and get new accounts if we want to throw away all existing progress. We don’t want better, we want equal value for that 50$.

no that is not a fair deal I wrote this in my reply

“in the current situation this choice is forced upon me: either forsake the “free bonus”, or forsake my current progress because I cannot buy the expansion separately "

whatever choice I make I lose (so the only logical choice is to abstain and to buy the thing at all, and that’s what i’m going to do)

I am “mad” for being treated differently just because I have previously purchased an account
I am not “mad” about new players getting something for free

What I want is to either get a free core game account with my upgrade, or some kind of substitute for it

You can call me an ape or whatever you like, but that won’t change the facts

Sadly, the only conclusion to draw from this is that Arena Net does not appreciate the fan base that has supported them for the past 3 years with GW2 and even before that with GW1. Truly, $50 is acceptable to me for the expansion. I do not really care about the extra “goodies” attached to the $75 and $100 offerings. What I DO care about is not being given an extra character slot for the new profession for my $50. In order for me to make a Revenant, I will either have to delete a current character from my stable (I currently have 10), buy the Deluxe version for $25 more, or buy $10 worth of gems for the extra character slot. Pretty classless, Arena Net, and not a very nice way to deal with your LOYAL fan base. You show your DISloyalty to us through your actions. As far as new players getting the core game AND the expac that’s fine by me. It doesn’t make sense for new players to only have the expansion. I’m sure there are many achievements and items I have that they never will. I do wonder if there could have been an “expansion only” version, but then I am not well versed in programming, etc. I was planning on buying the expansion, but am not sure if I wish to continue to support a company which has shown so little regard for those who have supported them for this long.

There is this, however. I have been a very frequent buyer of gems throughout the years (and yes, I do realize that was my decision. Not complaing as much as stating a fact). As a matter of fact, it might have been cheaper for me to play a game with a sub fee. Lol! IF I buy the expansion, I WILL NOT buy gems (i.e. pay cash) to purchase another character slot nor will I continue to support Arena Net through the “cash” purchase of gems. All is fair, ANet.

I think a more accurate comparison is that one monkey got a bunch of grapes earlier, then got kittened off when the second monkey got a grape along with his cucumber.

Which would make the first monkey a kitten more than anything.

chemiclord.3978:

I think a more accurate comparison is that one monkey got a bunch of grapes earlier, then got kittened off when the second monkey got a grape along with his cucumber.

Which would make the first monkey a kitten more than anything.

Literally this.

Like, it’s only an issue of fairness if you are willfully ignorant to the idea of depreciation of market value and are in dire need of a spotlight shone on you and your dogged support of a video game (and here I am, playing for the enjoyment of it alone). Besides, I thought that Anet was thanking me for playing the game every time I got a reward or title for existing, or simply logging in. It’s not much, but a level scroll, boosters, and a cake cannon is a lot more than SWTOR ever did for me…

The fact of the matter is that the HoT is $50 whether you like it or not, and people who don’t have the game yet are able to download the game while those who already have the game don’t get to because they already have it. The game has been devalued to nothing, and no longer exists on its own.

Also- if Anet gave away one free base game code to those who already have the code, gold farmers and hackers would have yet one more way to insulate themselves from permanent removal from the game. It would absolutely be abused.

chemiclord.3978:

I think a more accurate comparison is that one monkey got a bunch of grapes earlier, then got kittened off when the second monkey got a grape along with his cucumber.

Which would make the first monkey a kitten more than anything.

Again – wrong comparison.
A correct one would be:
Some time ago, a monkey got a bunch of grapes.
After some time they are given the same task with the promise of a cucumber and some grapes, and they both return a stone.
A monkey gets a bunch of grapes and a cucumber, but the other monkey is denied the grapes because of the ones he got some time before.
The second monkey is then angry , cause he would just want to have the grapes he worked for.

(the second monkey then starves and die; but that’s another story, and quite a sad one, so let’s skip it)

Batelle.1680:

-cut-

Again with the wrong comparison – there is no depreciation involved. There is a new product – HoT. And everyone is buying it during the same timeframe, at the same price, from the same place.
But some are getting a game and an expansion, and some are getting just the expansion. The latters should get the game as well. And that’s all.

Batelle.1680:

chemiclord.3978:

I think a more accurate comparison is that one monkey got a bunch of grapes earlier, then got kittened off when the second monkey got a grape along with his cucumber.

Which would make the first monkey a kitten more than anything.

Literally this.

Like, it’s only an issue of fairness if you are willfully ignorant to the idea of depreciation of market value and are in dire need of a spotlight shone on you and your dogged support of a video game (and here I am, playing for the enjoyment of it alone). Besides, I thought that Anet was thanking me for playing the game every time I got a reward or title for existing, or simply logging in. It’s not much, but a level scroll, boosters, and a cake cannon is a lot more than SWTOR ever did for me…

The fact of the matter is that the HoT is $50 whether you like it or not, and people who don’t have the game yet are able to download the game while those who already have the game don’t get to because they already have it. The game has been devalued to nothing, and no longer exists on its own.

Also- if Anet gave away one free base game code to those who already have the code, gold farmers and hackers would have yet one more way to insulate themselves from permanent removal from the game. It would absolutely be abused.

Please explain a fact-based formula for determining how software depreciates.

Spaceman.4027:

Bought the game on release. Don’t mind the $50 price tag. Would like it if veteran accounts got a bonus character slot with xpack.

Yep, this would be the fair thing to do.

As to whether there’s enough content to justify $50 is another thing, IMO it’s a pretty kitten lightweight expac for $50… 1 new class and 1 new zone for $50? Doesn’t seem like good value to me.

Harper.4173:

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s a prepurchase bonus. When the game is released it will just be the expansion. Pre-purchase isn’t about being fair. It’s about giving bonuses. If you don’t like it then wait until the game is released and everything will be “fair” again.

The problem is this. I’ve been with this game for 3 years. I’ve spent thousands ( over 3k) hours in it. I’ve spent hundreds of dollars on the gem store. I love the game.

I feel pretty bad when I see Anet’s recent focus has been almost exclusively oriented towards new players. New players get this, new players get that. Old players? Not a lot.

I don’t mind that HoT comes with a free copy of the core game if you’re a new player. It’s a viable and useful strategy to sell more.
I mind that new players once again take the center stage while veterans that have been with this game through thick and thin, through content drought and bad balance issues are left staring at the sun.
Why couldn’t they have added some nice bonus for veteran players? Maybe give the character slot for free. Maybe give us a unique skin, armor piece, title, trinket or shout. Anything.

I’m upset because for a long time veterans have been getting nothing, no recognition for their love and support for the game.

I was part of early access. I only get annoyed when new players get things I can’t personally acquire. Special bonuses that I have no access to at all bug me. As far as I can tell, though, that’s not actually a thing.

So after three years I can’t complain when they’re trying to incentivise new players, especially when there business model is based around people buying boxes and never having to pay anything again. They need a revenue stream, not the Gem Store.

After 3 years I have three years of the game. Living World that won’t ever return, like the Karka invasion. The Mad King’s invasion. The original flight of Tixx to all the cities. The events from Season 1 that may or may not ever become playable. Even if they are ever broken down into some kind of instanced bite sized mode, they’ll never be as cool as the Marionette in all her glory, or a full scale Scarlet invasion. There were a lot of invasions in three years, and new players, incentivised or not, will never share those experiences.