Guild Wars 2

coso.9173:

New players don’t get more for the same price. Old player got years of playing this game for it. New players will NEVER have that.

Yes, I already played HoT for 3 years.

Let me do some Index:
Whats old player played during 3 years ? GW2.
What old players want to buys ? HOT
What new players buy ? GW2 + HOT
Does the year of playing GW2 (NOT HOT) for older player has any relation with new player not buying the game before ?

coso.9173:

let’s see how things will be in 1 year from now:
old player paid 160$ = played 4 years of the game.
new player paid 100$ = played 1 year of the game.
sounds fair to me.

What if this “old player” bought the account somewhere around January, February or April, on this year, though?

I did get the game just a few months ago, and I ain’t even mad. it’s how things work, prices change all the time.
Am I going to be mad at the store because the jeans that I bought yesterday for 30$ are in sale 15$ today? I doubt it.

coso.9173:

I did get the game just a few months ago, and I ain’t even mad. it’s how things work, prices change all the time.
Am I going to be mad at the store because the jeans that I bought yesterday for 30$ are in sale 15$ today? I doubt it.

No; you ask a refund & buy it again. Bam you get 15$ back.

BTW answer that please.
Whats old player played during 3 years ? GW2.
What old players want to buy ? HOT
What new players buy ? GW2 + HOT
Does the year of playing GW2 (NOT HOT) for older player has any relation with new player not buying GW2 before ?

papry.8096:

Impact.2780:

papry.8096:

Ashen.2907:

I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.

That’s inherent to me investing my playing time to get it.
Or are you saying that I also bought my playing time to Anet with money?

You bought access to play the game for that time, and are not forced to buy the new version in order to continue to do so. Just like you don’t have to buy Microsoft Word 2014 to continue using the 2010 version.

That’s not the point. FALLACY AGAIN.

I paid my account. I played with it for 3 years. I earned what on it.
How the hell does this account in me getting a lesser deal when I buy something as the same time than a new player ?

It’s fact, not fallacy. You do not own the game.

Yes you paid for access to the game. Your account is how you access it, and you got to use that account to play the game for those three years. You got what you bought. Even after a new version is released, you’re allowed to continue playing while receiving updates to that core game. That is not being taken from you. You just won’t be getting all the updates post HoT unless you buy it, because some will be specifically for the content in HoT, and thus not applicable to games lacking HoT. If you buy the new version, you will have features you currently have – as with all new version releases – and in addition you will get the newly developed content, as well as the maintenance and updates for it, with no monthly fee.

Impact.2780:

……SNIP….

Here the original quote let me highlight it for you.

papry.8096:

Ashen.2907:

I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.

That’s inherent to me investing my playing time to get it.
Or
Are you saying that I also bought my playing time to Anet with money?

Get it ?

Whats old player played during 3 years ? GW2.
What old players want to buys ? HOT
What new players buy ? GW2 + HOT
What new players played during 3 years ? NOT GW2 by their choice.
Does the year of playing GW2 (NOT HOT) for older player has any relation with new player not buying the game before and playing to get stuff ?

Say to me that it’s also the fault of 3 years players if 2 years players doesn’t have the same thing than them ?

That a FALLACY. PERIOD.

I’m replying to you, not him. If you have something to say to argue against what I have said in response to you, or anyone else on this or another thread on the subject, then by all means try. If not, but you continue to disagree nonetheless, and try to press on as if I never said anything, then you are refusing to listen to and respond to reason, indicating that my time would be wasted on you.

Fairness doesn’t mean anything. A lot of games include a free copy of the original game. The problem is the announced content isn’t worth $50 and it’s common practice to include a free character slot when you introduce a new class.

If the expansion were $30 and came with a free character slot and charged new players $10 for season1 and $10 for season 2 if they wanted it via the gem store, there would be no outrage. There would be no complaints. Heck, if the game were $50 and came with a free slot I’d wager the complaints wouldn’t be this loud.

The only content that is unique to those who purchase the expansion are the ability to own your own guild hall (non expansion people can still use it apparently?), the 9 new specializations, the revnant class, and a single new zone with its zone specific mastery. Everything else is being given away for free.

I’m sorry, but for close to the price of the original game, we’re not getting nearly close to that amount of content.

Impact.2780:

I’m replying to you, not him. If you have something to say to argue against what I have said in response to you, or anyone else on this or another thread on the subject, then by all means try. If not, but you continue to disagree nonetheless, and try to press on as if I never said anything, then you are refusing to listen to and respond to reason, indicating that my time would be wasted on you.

Because you answer completely avoided my point yet answered my quote to him
. So i won’t bother either. I’m done running in circle.

Palindrome.8904:

There really is no free bonus. Here’s a breakdown:

1) You can’t buy vanilla on its own anymore.
2) Heart of Thorns standard edition is the base game now.
3) New players pay $50 for the entire vanilla world and the expansion area.
4) Existing players have to purchase the base game as it stand now to get the expansion.
5) The only people that won’t have access to new features are existing players that are too put off by this inequality of value.
6) Other people purchased the game because the FAQ specifically stated (prior to yesterday) that it would be required for Heart of Thorns. The only solution offered to people in this situation is to request a refund and buy the game again. This results in their current account being terminated (and all progress lost).

Exactly. The base game isn’t free. HoT + vanilla is the new base game. I don’t know why more people aren’t hammering on this point. Everyone who already owns the game, whether they bought it three years ago or three months ago, is being asked to repurchase something they already own. (And those people who bought it three months ago probably did so on the basis of the FAQ, which proved to be false.)

Except it’s actually even worse, because you’re not even really repurchasing vanilla GW2. You’re just paying for it. Unless you’re willing to leave your current account un-upgraded, you don’t actually get a second copy of the game.

I can’t think of any other software I’ve bought that works like this. Most programs I’ve purchased, unless they’re a $10 shareware dealie coded in someone’s basement, don’t make me rebuy the whole thing when I want to upgrade to the latest version. Of those that have made me repurchase, all of them have resulted in me owning two fully usable copies of the software, one upgraded and one not. And, absent major compatibility changes between the two versions, I can use all of my files and work from my original copy on the newer, updated one.

Anet is telling me that I need to repurchase everything and will only end up with either a) one fully upgraded copy or b) one non-upgraded version, and a fully upgraded version that can’t use half the stuff from my original copy. (Oh, and I have to pay $10 more to use one of the new features of the upgrade.)

I’m not upset because I’m a veteran who thinks I’m owed something for that. Anet doesn’t owe me anything for sticking around. I’m upset because this is a raw deal, and it’d be a raw deal if I’d bought the game a week ago. If Anet wants to change things so that it ceases to be such an insultingly poor deal, I’ll happily buy the expansion. As it is, though, I have no intention of paying for something I already own and not even receiving a proper second copy.

coso.9173:

let’s see how things will be in 1 year from now:
old player paid 160$ = played 4 years of the game.
new player paid 100$ = played 1 year of the game.
sounds fair to me.

How many gems has the new player contributed to the gem store?
My wife buys gems and plays gw2. I don’t think you understand how this works.
My wife has spent more money on gems than a new player will spend on the game. Sot your whole “well you got to play the game.” argument is ridiculous as you can get. Especially if you consider I can not link it to my account and I get an extra account.

Also charging a play for the work they put in, is not a benefit.

Zoul.1087:

coso.9173:

let’s see how things will be in 1 year from now:
old player paid 160$ = played 4 years of the game.
new player paid 100$ = played 1 year of the game.
sounds fair to me.

How many gems has the new player contributed to the gem store?
My wife buys gems and plays gw2. I don’t think you understand how this works.
My wife has spent more money on gems than a new player will spend on the game. Sot your whole “well you got to play the game.” argument is ridiculous as you can get. Especially if you consider I can not link it to my account and I get an extra account.

Also charging a play for the work they put in, is not a benefit.

Lot of anet defenders are really good at fallacy so don’t expect them to come with logical argument.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

lighter.2708:

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s a prepurchase bonus. When the game is released it will just be the expansion. Pre-purchase isn’t about being fair. It’s about giving bonuses. If you don’t like it then wait until the game is released and everything will be “fair” again.

a prepurchase bonus which only applies to new player? much market such wow

ISPS do it all the time with their service bundles.

except they also have good discount for old users, kaboom, ever thought of that?

papry.8096:

Impact.2780:

I’m replying to you, not him. If you have something to say to argue against what I have said in response to you, or anyone else on this or another thread on the subject, then by all means try. If not, but you continue to disagree nonetheless, and try to press on as if I never said anything, then you are refusing to listen to and respond to reason, indicating that my time would be wasted on you.

Because you answer completely avoided my point yet answered my quote to him
. So i won’t bother either. I’m done running in circle.

Honestly – and I don’t mean to offend you – I really can’t see any point in anything I’ve read that you’ve said. One person says that the time and effort invested into an account is now a permanent quality, which while not absolutely true due to the nature of an account, is essentially true for practical purposes. It doesn’t do anything for the discussion on what is and is not fair, however. You seem to entirely misinterpret what he said, and ask whether he meant that you bought the very time you would invest into it as well as access to do so, and I correct you.

Moving from there, you call it a fallacy. That is not a point, but another mistake on your part. My responses have clear points: first to correct, and then to correct again with more detail. Telling me to once again respond to a previous quote is what would create the circle.

Why do you bring GW2 to this? It’s a different product. The veteran that paid $60 at launch played the game for 3 years, while the newcomer that got it for $10 last September has only played for a few months. This is fair. And irrelevant.

With HoT, both veteran and newcomer are buying the same product, at the same price, at the same time. But they get different content. It’s not a discount, it’s preferential treatment in favour of a specific group of players, who happen to be the ones that contributed nothing to the core game.

Zoul.1087:

coso.9173:

let’s see how things will be in 1 year from now:
old player paid 160$ = played 4 years of the game.
new player paid 100$ = played 1 year of the game.
sounds fair to me.

How many gems has the new player contributed to the gem store?
My wife buys gems and plays gw2. I don’t think you understand how this works.
My wife has spent more money on gems than a new player will spend on the game. Sot your whole “well you got to play the game.” argument is ridiculous as you can get. Especially if you consider I can not link it to my account and I get an extra account.

Also charging a play for the work they put in, is not a benefit.

Arguing that you bought items separate from the original release, or the HoT release is completely irrelevant. Those were separate purchases.

“Well you got to play the game,” isn’t an argument, it’s a fact. You paid to play it, and you did. Thus, you got to play the game.

Having to pay for goods or services provided is never a benefit. It’s called purchasing. Getting paid for work that you have done, will do, and goods you are supplying is fair.

Look its an insentive to get new players into the game can’t we just accept that games thrive on getting new players as well as keeping veterans its our current community that widely sways new payers opinions on whether to buy the game and the way this community is reacting I don’t blame new players from going “this is how they react to things I won’t join this community before hell freezes over” so stop complaining don’t pre order the game and get it without the base game but accept that Anet want new players and accept other people opinions because what was once nicest MMO communities has turned completely toxic and feel free to hate me for this but this is my opinion and to be honest I am happy to call myself a veteran, a lover of guild wars 1 and 2, I happy with the new player incentive but most of all I am embarassed to say I am a member of this community and I am disgusted with the way you all have acted so seeing as no one else is saying it I will because I mean it first to Colin Johanson brilliant interview on the stream and thank you for giving us the first announcement of the first expansion Pre Purchase and now to the QA team thank you for testing the patches for us if you weren’t here the game would have so many bugs and finally to the Developers and in general all members of the Guild wars 2 team at Arena Net I salute you for all of the hard work you do just to be attacked by ungrateful people and I just want to say keep up the good work and I will enjoy the next god knows how many years of playing this great and beautiful game.

Shikoba.6378:

I like when people resort to name calling and personal attacks.
It means I’ve won the argument.

So by this logic, the way to win arguments is to put your fingers in your ears, scream “I’m right! I’m right! I should get a free cookie!” over and over again while jumping around until finally the counterparty notes this behavior, correctly calls it childish, and walks away.

Duly noted.

Wwefan.4982:

overly long sentence

Yes, Anet wants new players, all MMOs do. But they ask veterans to shoulder the extra cost of reaching out to those new players without any compensation.

If you are ok with that, be my quest and pre-purchase. Just understand that some are not ok.

I cant speak for you girls, but I can do more with a cucumber then I can with a grape.

Ashen.2907:

MMOGamer.6175:

Ashen.2907:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Ashen.2907:

Actually both players are getting the same result here. Both get the ability to create an account that includes the core game and HoT.

Technically a veteran gets something not available to a first time buyer, the option to link to an existing account instead.

So if you are in fact being offered the same result as the first tme buyer, even a bit more, what is your real complaint?

You’re technically in the wrong there, though.

Mind you, I couldn’t care less about new players and their perks, but I do care about fallacious logic.

An older player must’ve paid anywhere between $10-$60 for their account, and will need to pay an additional charge $-50 to upgrade it to GW2: HoT, so, that’s a $60-$110 expense to keep up with the changes, whereas a new player will only need $~50 for both, the standalone account and the upgrade. It would be equivalent if the older player could acquire an extra GW2 key to gift a friend or to use themselves, but that’s not the case.

Now, according to ANET, that standalone GW2 account for newcomers is just a bonus, but combined with the whole FAQ scandal, it really affects their credibility

That said, I’d like to reiterate that I don’t support either side, but that I understand from where the rage is coming from.

For the $50 price tag of HoT everyone gets an account with both core content and expansion content included. Players with existing accounts are allowed, but not required, to forgo the newly purchased account, if they so choose, in order to link to the existing account.

The price someone paid for an existing account as much as (close to) three years ago is irrelevant to what is provided in the HoT bundle. The bundle provides exactly the same for everyone, with the pfeviously mentioned exception that a veteran has an option not available to a first time buyer.

I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.

Still not buying your failed backwards thinking.

If I were to go to the website and use my credit card to purchase a copy of HoT would I or would I not get an account with both the core game and HoT included?

If a first time buyer goes to the website and purchases a copy of HoT would they or would they not get an account with both the core game and HoT included?

I already own the core. At the end of the transaction I would own a new copy of the core, linked to a new copy of HoT (exactly the same as a first time buyer) and I would also own a second copy of the core.

No you would lose the core from the HoT expansion, the core is NOT a separate key unless Anet says otherwise.

There will be no vanilla, only HoT and HoT-Lite.. Those who don’t upgrade will have some aspects of HoT added in.

I find it amazing, how people are ignoring the obvious.

HoT being expensive is not the real issue. Core game being bundled with it is not the real issue. Inequity IS the real issue.

Inequity in this case:
Player A (owns GW2) pays 50 bucks, receives only expansion, so 1 potatoes
Player B (does not own GW2) pays 50 bucks, receives both core game and exp, so 2 potatoes.

Player B gets 100% more potatoes for the same amount of money, making player A feel undervalued and neglected, especially considering how player A was supporting the potato factory for quite a long time.

If all they would do, is give Player A a separate core game key (even if he did not need it or ask for it), you would have lot less of a kittenstorm on hand.

People would still be upset, because…
a) you can never make everyone happy
b) it would still be a kitten move to force players to re-purchase the core game

but that could be handled with some smart communication, for example:
GW2 is a 10 buck deal atm separately.
HoT is a 50 buck deal atm separately.
For a limited time (until release), they sell them as a bundle, with a 17% price drop at $50 for both. People would be looking at it as an opportunity, instead of something being forced upon them.

To be honest I lost track as to why people are mad. All I know is there are a lot of mad people out there and each of them have their only reasons as to why they are mad.

I just look at the movie and grin

briggah.7910:

To be honest I lost track as to why people are mad. All I know is there are a lot of mad people out there and each of them have their only reasons as to why they are mad.

nope those are my exact reasons; incidentally those are the only objective reasons to be “mad” (I feel quite calm atm)

csebal.5936:

I find it amazing, how people are ignoring the obvious.

HoT being expensive is not the real issue. Core game being bundled with it is not the real issue. Inequity IS the real issue.

Inequity in this case:
Player A (owns GW2) pays 50 bucks, receives only expansion, so 1 potatoes
Player B (does not own GW2) pays 50 bucks, receives both core game and exp, so 2 potatoes.

Player B gets 100% more potatoes for the same amount of money, making player A feel undervalued and neglected, especially considering how player A was supporting the potato factory for quite a long time.

If all they would do, is give Player A a separate core game key (even if he did not need it or ask for it), you would have lot less of a kittenstorm on hand.
[…]

“Life isn’t fair, it’s just fairer than death, that’s all.”
— William Goldman

“Fair means everyone gets what they need. And the only way to get what you need is to make it happen yourself.”
Rick Riordan, The Red Pyramid

You can’t always get what you want
-Mick Jagger

You picked your quote badly tho’, papry. Nothing in this discussion is what you need, it’s what you want.

“A foole and his money be soone at debate: which after with sorow repents him too late.”
- Thomas Tusser 1557

“When you want something this badly, you don’t just give up. You fight and fight until you absolutely can’t fight anymore.”
? Gail McHugh

Windsagio.1340:

You picked your quote badly tho’, papry. Nothing in this discussion is what you need, it’s what you want.

You are right.I made a mistake.

I just want kitten -10 discount for already owning the game and JUST purchasing HoT. I’m not asking for that much.

The OP’s contention of unfairness is invalidated by one simple fact. One can no longer buy a GW2 core account from ANet without buying HoT.

IndigoSundown.5419:

The OP’s contention of unfairness is invalidated by one simple fact. One can no longer buy a GW2 core account from ANet without buying HoT.

so GW2 isn’t available on it’s own, and neither is HoT.

but we’re not buying HoT and GW2.?

so, it’s an expansion – not a standalone. and it needs the core game to play.

except it’s literally impossible to obtain it in a package which doesn’t function exactly as a standalone would. it needs the core game to play, but can’t be obtained without the core game.

…

What?!

IndigoSundown.5419:

The OP’s contention of unfairness is invalidated by one simple fact. One can no longer buy a GW2 core account from ANet without buying HoT.

So?

Both veterans and newcomers will have to buy this GW2+HoT bundle. But the vets will only get HoT. This is what’s unfair.

HAHAHAH that video made me laugh and almost choke on my mlk

I’ll just leave this here……Fly’s away

RabbitUp.8294:

IndigoSundown.5419:

The OP’s contention of unfairness is invalidated by one simple fact. One can no longer buy a GW2 core account from ANet without buying HoT.

So?

Both veterans and newcomers will have to buy this GW2+HoT bundle. But the vets will only get HoT. This is what’s unfair.

That might be true, if ANet were putting any value on the core game any longer. It’s pretty clear they prefer to remove the barrier to entry for new players more than they prefer to eke a few more buys out of the core game.

So you can argue about the price being to high or just right. Based on the content described it seems inflated. The thing that irritates me is that they are willing to give new players the game with five fresh new character slots but if you are a current player, you have to either buy Gems to get an extra slot for the new class or pay an extra $25.00. Would it really hurt the bottom line that much to include one if you already have the game. I don’t think so. Yes, I will probably fork out the cash for the expansion. But for those I know who play, don’t expect to see Gem cards on your birthday or in your Christmas stockings anymore.

Two customers walk into a restaurant. The hostess asks each “Have you dined with us before?” When one customer says “No” the hostess informs her that she qualifies for a 2-for-1 meal special. The other customer reads the menu and notices that the restaurant seems pricier than before for the meal size, so he asks if he can get the same deal. The hostess replies “Well, this is not your first time here, so we figure you must be willing to pay full price! You’re already a customer, and we’re focused on getting new business.”

Do you stay and eat?

Daddar.5971:

Two customers walk into a restaurant. The hostess asks each “Have you dined with us before?” When one customer says “No” the hostess informs her that she qualifies for a 2-for-1 meal special. The other customer reads the menu and notices that the restaurant seems pricier than before for the meal size, so he asks if he can get the same deal. The hostess replies “Well, this is not your first time here, so we figure you must be willing to pay full price! You’re already a customer, and we’re focused on getting new business.”

Do you stay and eat?

I will stay…I will preorder the whole menu…that a super customer offer.

Daddar.5971:

Two customers walk into a restaurant. The hostess asks each “Have you dined with us before?” When one customer says “No” the hostess informs her that she qualifies for a 2-for-1 meal special. The other customer reads the menu and notices that the restaurant seems pricier than before for the meal size, so he asks if he can get the same deal. The hostess replies “Well, this is not your first time here, so we figure you must be willing to pay full price! You’re already a customer, and we’re focused on getting new business.”

Do you stay and eat?

Do I like the food a lot or was I returning here for a social reason? Do I know the other customer? Why would I not take ask the other guy if I could pay for half a meal and share his 2 for 1 at half the cost to each of us? Does he really want 2 meals if he’s alone. Does the restaurant fire the hostess for her choice of words?