Guild Wars 2

Ventari is ridiculously overpowered when it comes to healing. Up to +50% more healing when you trait correctly? Toughness based on healing power? Tanky and high healing, I don’t think other support classes can fight this…

Mallyx is what the Necromancer should’ve been in the first place. All I will say…

Jalis is tanky as ****. Protection, swiftness, lightning fields, … Mobility, stability, damage. This stance seems even better than a guardian tbh.

Why are you trying to kill the vanilla professions? Do you want to force us to use the Elite spec’s?

They are essentially starting to add the trinity. You have a Ventari healing spec, a Jalis tank spec, and the other 8 professions for DPS.

Hopefully they tailor the other professions to more trinity roles with future specializations so every group isn’t forced to have two revenants.

Why do people keep assuming that they will not do a single change to the vanilla professions?

lordkrall.7241:

Why do people keep assuming that they will not do a single change to the vanilla professions?

Cause Anet didn’t show that they are changing the vanilla Professions.

You know, as long as I can’t see it, it doesn’t exist xD

No, Ventari is not ridiculously overpowered. It excels at healing, but other supports excel at functionalities the Ventari Revenant does not.

- Ventari Revenants excel at ally healing much more than self-healing. Other support choices – like a Guardian, Elementalist, or Shoutbow – can be made much more survivable and much less likely to fold to pressure.

- Revenants, with their currently announced options, have little in the way of escape mobility or out-of-combat mobility. This, coupled with some of their other issues, makes them highly fragile in PvP.

- Ventari Revenants lack long-term or multi-stack stability and are forced to make a painful choice to stun break. If their dodge roll stability proves insufficient, the only way to break a stun is to swap legends – thereby losing their healing functions or otherwise swapping at an inopportune time.

- Ventari offers no boons (well, okay, it offers Regeneration when traited, but Regeneration is generally pretty poor). Hell, the overall ability of the Revenant to provide boon support is remarkably low.

- Ventari provides a deflect, not a reflect. This isn’t a huge deal in WvW and PvP where the defensive functions of this skill will have great potential, but in PvE, this effectively makes the skill a second rate choice compared to Guard options.

- Revenants must provide a full third of their bar to become these “overpowered” healers and can only be this while channeling a particular legend – and probably only with a particular trait line.

- From a PvE standpoint, heals are weak in Vanilla GW2 content. Bosses are frequently capable of one-shotting players. Players are often capable of providing themselves with sufficient healing and dodging to survive. Meaning that the only real use of this healing tends to be against pressure damage, which is rare in PvE content. Will this be different for the new content? We don’t know that yet, but unless the core game changes, might-stacking, protection, aegis, vigor, and reflects will all be stronger forms of support that the Revenant does not have access to.

If anything, Ventari is nothing but a one-trick wonder.

You can’t be jack-of-all-trades if you can’t equip all legendaries at the same time.

You can specialize into two of them, but true jack-of-all-trade roles will remain excluve to professions like elementalist or engineer.

Revenant is indeed going overboard – just look at the mobile reflection dome with tablet. Only instances of mobile reflection on vanilla professions are either self only reflections (mesmer, warrior) or that short reflection on huge cooldown Dragon Hunter gets for his virtue of courage.
And good old reve just has to cough up energy for it, which is a far cheaper resource then a significant cooldown others get.

We’ll see how it goes, but as it is now we’re indeed facing quite the op’ness here.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Revenant is indeed going overboard – just look at the mobile reflection dome with tablet. Only instances of mobile reflection on vanilla professions are either self only reflections (mesmer, warrior) or that short reflection on huge cooldown Dragon Hunter gets for his virtue of courage.
And good old reve just has to cough up energy for it, which is a far cheaper resource then a significant cooldown others get.

We’ll see how it goes, but as it is now we’re indeed facing quite the op’ness here.

Hammer 4 wall – but it does reflect man!
Ventari dome – man dat high uptime reflect!!!

Neither of them reflect.

Every hero has it’s pro’s and cons and it’s counterplays. I think it’s wrong to make such statements whether it’s strong or not by what you have seen currently. Everything is still under construction and only a few people have been able to experience the gameplay as revenant with the energy management.

Apart from that it’s pretty safe to say that once a revenant goes into ventari he’s pretty bound to go into healing power which is fairly useless for all other hero’s so far known. By doing that he’s just wasting potential damage and seeing the numbers on staff in the stream it seems pretty underwhelming. But hey, like I said: Pro’s and cons. The pro is nice healing, the con is bad damage. Not to mention it barely has any support besides healing. If an ele or bunker guard would put some effort in healing and supporting they would probably come very close to bring the same support. Maybe not in therms of healing, but they will come close by compensating with boon share, which the revenant lacks quite a bit.

Ah my bad, my bad
I forgot there is absorpion and reflection. But that matters little in this instance. What matters is that with ventari specced reve you got 1 man mobile, projectile denial for a group of ppl, with very small downtime and ability to move with the group.

It’s ok to have mobile projectile denial, it’s ok to have it in a form of zone which protects party.
It’s NOT ok to have it just cost energy, meaning fast recharge, and it’s not ok that only revenant gets such option, while everyone else is for major part stuck with far inferior solutions.

If you think that’s not OP then here’s a challenge for you:
Think of stronghold and escorting doorbreakers to enemy gate. Now you find me a profession that will do equally good at the job (i won’t even ask for better) as jalis+ventari specced revenant.

Revenant has plenty of healing traits, even outside of ventari’s line, access to two #6 heal skills, two heals on staff, and possibly heals on shield as well (based on datamined info). I’d say ventari’s line has plenty of synergy with the class as a whole, even though ventari legend will be one that gets most of it, of course.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Ah my bad, my bad
I forgot there is absorpion and reflection. But that matters little in this instance. What matters is that with ventari specced reve you got 1 man mobile, projectile denial for a group of ppl, with very small downtime and ability to move with the group.

It’s ok to have mobile projectile denial, it’s ok to have it in a form of zone which protects party.
It’s NOT ok to have it just cost energy, meaning fast recharge, and it’s not ok that only revenant gets such option, while everyone else is for major part stuck with far inferior solutions.

If you think that’s not OP then here’s a challenge for you:
Think of stronghold and escorting doorbreakers to enemy gate. Now you find me a profession that will do equally good at the job (i won’t even ask for better) as jalis+ventari specced revenant.

Gosh I don’t know, maybe just kill the dude? CC him? If he stays in ventari he can’t even damage you. The most he can do is 1 knockback which should be fairly easy to dodge if you’re not standing right next to him. The only way he will be able to support the doorbreakers is by healing anyway and to do that he’s almost forced to stay in front of them. Just find a way to get him behind his doorbreakers and you negated already 50% of his heals to the doorbreakers.
A healing staff ele can pretty much bring out maybe even more support due more CC to keep you away and swiftness which revenant lacks quite a bit once staff is picked.

Edit:
You can also CC the doorbreakers which might trick him to go into jalis to give the doorbreakers stability. While he’s in jalis you should be able to kill the doorbreakers before he can heal them again. If he uses legendary dwarf stance he should be out of energy once he pops back into ventari so he shouldn’t have energy to heal by then. Or if you’re on condition spec you can condi spam him once he’s in jallis.

People forget that Ventari doesnt even have a normal heal skill for skill 6. Correct me if I am wrong.

They may well be a “Jack-of-all-Trades” and pretty good at each trade too, but they can’t do them all at once. You have one weapon and two legends. If you have a staff and are traited and equipping Ventari, then all you can do is support with some limited damage (as far as we’ve seen so far, you can’t say for sure until all has been revealed). I’m not sure how that is overpowered. You’ll be pretty useless once healing or projectile deflection is no longer needed. If anything I’d say a staff (or almost any) ele is more versatile and “overpowered” in that sense, as they can switch between support, CC and damage in combat.

Knighthonor.4061:

People forget that Ventari doesnt even have a normal heal skill for skill 6. Correct me if I am wrong.

It doesn’t. Which makes it even more fragile.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

If anything, Ventari is nothing but a one-trick wonder.

I’m incredibly disappointed you didn’t use the term one-trick pony.

Shame on you.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

It’s NOT ok to have it just cost energy, meaning fast recharge, and it’s not ok that only revenant gets such option, while everyone else is for major part stuck with far inferior solutions.

There is another cost though: versatility.

In order to provide that high upkeep projectile block, you also have to take all of the other utilities that come with it which may be less beneficial than another Legends utilities in a situation, whereas other professions only need to give up one skill slot.

Even if it’s just an upkeep skill as well, other skills aside from your autoattack cost energy too. Given how your energy will constantly be draining, I don’t think the upkeep will be all that high without it having negative consequences (running out of energy and being unable to use other skills, for example).

Derigar.7810:

Mallyx is what the Necromancer should’ve been in the first place. All I will say…

I’d love some condi resistance though, but otherwise not sure what you mean… oh wait you’re not going to say anymore…

Walhalla.5473:

lordkrall.7241:

Why do people keep assuming that they will not do a single change to the vanilla professions?

Cause Anet didn’t show that they are changing the vanilla Professions.

You know, as long as I can’t see it, it doesn’t exist xD

But they spent hours going through the trait changes!

Duke Blackrose.4981:

No, Ventari is not ridiculously overpowered. It excels at healing, but other supports excel at functionalities the Ventari Revenant does not.

- Ventari Revenants excel at ally healing much more than self-healing. Other support choices – like a Guardian, Elementalist, or Shoutbow – can be made much more survivable and much less likely to fold to pressure.

- Revenants, with their currently announced options, have little in the way of escape mobility or out-of-combat mobility. This, coupled with some of their other issues, makes them highly fragile in PvP.

- Ventari Revenants lack long-term or multi-stack stability and are forced to make a painful choice to stun break. If their dodge roll stability proves insufficient, the only way to break a stun is to swap legends – thereby losing their healing functions or otherwise swapping at an inopportune time.

- Ventari offers no boons (well, okay, it offers Regeneration when traited, but Regeneration is generally pretty poor). Hell, the overall ability of the Revenant to provide boon support is remarkably low.

- Ventari provides a deflect, not a reflect. This isn’t a huge deal in WvW and PvP where the defensive functions of this skill will have great potential, but in PvE, this effectively makes the skill a second rate choice compared to Guard options.

- Revenants must provide a full third of their bar to become these “overpowered” healers and can only be this while channeling a particular legend – and probably only with a particular trait line.

- From a PvE standpoint, heals are weak in Vanilla GW2 content. Bosses are frequently capable of one-shotting players. Players are often capable of providing themselves with sufficient healing and dodging to survive. Meaning that the only real use of this healing tends to be against pressure damage, which is rare in PvE content. Will this be different for the new content? We don’t know that yet, but unless the core game changes, might-stacking, protection, aegis, vigor, and reflects will all be stronger forms of support that the Revenant does not have access to.

If anything, Ventari is nothing but a one-trick wonder.

everyone should just read this post and go home

Being overpowered at healing is probably worth a whole lot of nothing until we understand what the ‘challenging content’ of HoT will be. Even then, I suspect it will move from a whole lot of nothing to a little less than a whole lot.

CureForLiving.5360:

Derigar.7810:

Mallyx is what the Necromancer should’ve been in the first place. All I will say…

I’d love some condi resistance though, but otherwise not sure what you mean… oh wait you’re not going to say anymore…

Walhalla.5473:

lordkrall.7241:

Why do people keep assuming that they will not do a single change to the vanilla professions?

Cause Anet didn’t show that they are changing the vanilla Professions.

You know, as long as I can’t see it, it doesn’t exist xD

But they spent hours going through the trait changes!

With no new updates mind you. Everything and ANYTHING is subjected to change since then.

This is my main issue with revenant.

The devs realized that a non-negligible portion of their playerbase prefers playing tanks, supports, healers, etc. than pure DPS and it is probably a big reason why this game’s dungeons are such a failure, so OK they are adding a new class that can do all this.

But the other classes don’t seem to get much in the way of non-DPS roles. Even guardians who were intended to be a crutch for players who play tanks or healers in other MMOs are getting completely demolished by revenant legends.

And nevermind other classes. For example I wish my warrior could be a competent tank/bunker because warriors actually have good shield skills, but if even guardians are demolished in tankiness by revenant then I have no hope for warriors (or any other class.)

everything what the rev currently does not have
could come with
1) other weapons
2) the utility slots
3) other legends
4) the last traitline
5) the elite spec

it is the pure combo that a class shines so bright compared to others without knowing the last half of the class

personally i see here the full power of big K´s balancing
after he moved from core balancing aka warrior OPing to rev design, he put everything incredible strong he couldnt use for his classes to his new main class – the rev.

snow.8097:

everything what the rev currently does not have
could come with
1) other weapons
2) the utility slots
3) other legends
4) the last traitline
5) the elite spec

it is the pure combo that a class shines so bright compared to others without knowing the last half of the class

personally i see here the full power of big K´s balancing
after he moved from core balancing aka warrior OPing to rev design, he put everything incredible strong he couldnt use for his classes to his new main class – the rev.

This form of speculation has no value.

Ranger staff could come with a 10 second stun. It probably won’t. The game could offer mesmers a frilly tutu with Heart of Thorns. It probably won’t. The Revenant could be overpowered, or it could be underpowered when the whole class is unveiled.

We’re talking about what the class has now, and, right now, what it has is being grossly overstated, with plenty of holes and weaknesses.

there is no Agro in this game no threat levels or %’s so tanking is practice to obsorb damage rather than Redirect it and support roles of CC/healing helps the duration of the fight , there still is NO trinity without Agro threat levels .

the reason why Anet is improving healing support and CC support and damage support builds is to improve the content.

they can’t improve the content if everyone keeps using Full glass builds as those currently do get 1-2 shooted in PvE so i;f you want better/ hard/ more Challenging content These changes must happen or HoT will be the same mobs same monsters same reasons to NOT use support or support sub tank .

Tanking in this game should be called Body blocking.

Edit also to add, If condis aka Poison stacks its -33% healing per stack or 4% per stack so 25 stacks of poison would = a -100% heal debuff so this Ventari makes a lot of sense needing to swap out damage for improved healing untill poisons are cleansed , its onther way of making healing important if you can only remove so many condis per skill rotation healing skills and stances like Ventari make it possible to provide a area of stability where you won’t die from poison clouds areas that consistantly apply poison.

There is aggro and threat, it’s just not wholly reliable (although it can get relatively close, the sacrifices to get really good threat control make it often not worth it).

There are also casesw here you actually do body block tank (or have a pet do it), altho there aren’t too many (old tom is the obvious one that comes to mind <>)

In my opinion Ventari’s legend skill #6 has A WAY too low energy cost… what is 10 energy!? He can regenerate it in 2-3 seconds what makes this legend OP like really OP. Why? Because Revenant don’t need to participate in combat to heal his team all the time. He can just spam #6, which costs nothing.

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/gw2-ventari-tablet-utility-skills1.jpg

So this “staff build” should encourage ppl to go out and fight with team. Maybe you won’t deal much dmg, but you will apply many condies like Weakness and Weakness and tons of Blind. But with current cost of skill #6 none will do this.

For me it should cost like 25-30%. It’s not high. Player should make strategic decisions if moving the tablet is important enough to do this or rather not to or maybe it would be better to destroy it with skill #0 (elite).

If Revenant could use all of its skills at the same time, it’d be a jack-of-all-trades, but revenant can only run two at a time, and it has the least wiggle room of any profession in the skill department, almost always running the lines for its two legends and a utility line, along with one weapon set that compliments one of its lines. Currently, a revenant could specialize in tanking/healing, tanking/condi, or healing/condi. If it wants to heal, it’d have to give up either tanking or dps, which is the opposite of a jack-of-all-trades.

the other thing to consider with tablet is that it still has to use the horrible pet pathing. Depending on the map expecting it to move in a preferable way will be a pretty big challenge.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

They are essentially starting to add the trinity. You have a Ventari healing spec, a Jalis tank spec, and the other 8 professions for DPS.

Hopefully they tailor the other professions to more trinity roles with future specializations so every group isn’t forced to have two revenants.

They need to be careful how they add trinity style mechanics without introducing a full blown mandatory tank/healer/dps style of gameplay.

if that happens I would be sadly saying goodbye to gw2 as will many many others that enjoy the current systems.