Guild Wars 2

Its got to be in the mists….

I mean its got to be… You awaken as a newly undead…

and maybe just maybe Rytlock is there to help you out of the mists….and back to Tyria.

I have been thinking that this would be the angle anet would approach from..seeing as how it cant be a slap on to the old story without continuity errors…..

Discuss please.

oh btw heres the definition of the name incase anywone is confused.

rev·e·nant
?rev??näN,-n?nt/
noun
noun: revenant; plural noun: revenants

a person who has returned, especially supposedly from the dead.

It is a class, not a race. They will not get their own starting area.

nGumball.1283:

It is a class, not a race. They will not get their own starting area.

dont shove your foot in your mouth just yet…seriously…

this logically makes the most sense lore wise. sadly.

Its a genuine concern of peoples to wonder if Rytlock is the first Revenant than how will you make a new character that defeats zhaitan…that is also a Revenant…..think about it.

nGumball.1283:

It is a class, not a race. They will not get their own starting area.

Paragons and dervishes back in gw1 was also classes and If you played prop/faction earlier then they had different starting area than rest of classes you had :P

we don’t know actually anything on this matter right now – It would make sense though for revy’s to have another start by lore but nothing is sure in the matter (as long as ANet will not tell us how it will be)

Maybe you will asked how did you died during the character creation. That may determine the new personal story route.

Crossaber.8934:

Maybe you will asked how did you died during the character creation. That may determine the new personal story route.

only race options affect personal story – the revenant questions will be about your blindfold or something, maybe on who you channel first but i think channellings will be done by utility skills

Rem.9627:

nGumball.1283:

It is a class, not a race. They will not get their own starting area.

dont shove your foot in your mouth just yet…seriously…

this logically makes the most sense lore wise. sadly.

Its a genuine concern of peoples to wonder if Rytlock is the first Revenant than how will you make a new character that defeats zhaitan…that is also a Revenant…..think about it.

Thank you for your very respectful reply.
Unlike GW1, GW2 classes doesn’t have a connection to the lore and therefore I don’t see any issue with the matter. Otherwise, none said that Rytlock was the first Revenant.

I am highly in favor of the Revenant getting a new starting area and personal story branch. With mechanics like profession specializations coming in HoT specific content, the Revenant would be as well.

don’t get revenant confused with death knights from wow x) i highly doubt they will get there own starting location instead it is more likely that on character creation we will answer questions like how we became a revenant where we died who we want revenge on etc etc also revenant can be known as a reanimated corpse or a spirit back for revenge theres so many meaning to the word
either way i am excited and if they do get there own starting area sir i will give u a whole 50 silver yes how rich is that 50 silver you could buy every legendary with that ;D
hehe

The only reason that Rits and Dervishes etc got a different starting area was because anybody who started in Factions and Nightfall would start in their campaign’s respective starter area. It wasn’t dependent upon profession.

On topic, I doubt that Revenants would get a different starter area. They’ve said that they’ll start at level 1 like everyone else, and yes somebody was completely correct in saying that it’s only the Race decisions that have an effect upon the Personal Story. Things like an Engineer’s backpack and a Guardian’s shoulder pauldrons have no effect on the story, so whatever Revenant has will likewise have no effect on the story.

It’s true that the first Revenant we know about is Rytlock, and the possible lore contradiction of having a Revenant fighting Zhaitan, but since they won’t make an entirely brand new Personal Story reserved for only Revenants (remember this is only an expansion, not a stand alone campaign), it looks like Revenants will be going through the same Personal Story as everyone else.

I wouldn’t say it contradicts lore since Dervs and Rits are able to go back and do missions in early Proph.

And it’s only a profession. Having a revenant going through the personal story is hardly lore breaking since professions has no effect upon it.

Revenants aren’t undead. Though in typical fantasy settings the term is used for an undead (common or otherwise), it is not necessarily required.

In GW2’s case, it just means someone who’s been to the Mists and back – Rytlock, in this case. And Rytlock teaches what he learned to others. Basically, GW2 revenants are only copy cats.

Or would that be copying charr.

Either way, professions don’t have unique starting areas so I doubt they’d go and do such for Revenants. Most likely the “to the Mists and back” will be part of the profession-specific biography question and just “assumed”. Like how guardians met some famed hero in their past who gave them some armor piece.

To be fair, Revenants, as an undead fighter-esque class, are reminiscent of WoW’s Death Knights- they got their own starting area independent of their race, and were dropped into the game after playing through the starting area tied to the expansion’s storyline. Likewise, the first Death Knight(in practice) Arthas, also changed his race, going from Paladin to Death Knight. So, it HAS been done before. I, for one, don’t really care one way or another- I just think it’s a neat class idea, and I’m looking forward to trying it out.

I find it silly with Rytlock being first ever. Basically we gonna create revenant, kill zhaitan, (we fought scarlet armies in meantime in season1), then we gonna become boss of the new group of heroes and watch how rytlock goes into mists to become revenant. Plot hole like crap, and Tyria is not world of Dark Souls where time and space in convoluted xD

nGumball.1283:

Thank you for your very respectful reply.
Unlike GW1, GW2 classes doesn’t have a connection to the lore and therefore I don’t see any issue with the matter. Otherwise, none said that Rytlock was the first Revenant.

Actually the lead Game developer said he was the 1st Revenant.

“Rytlock Brimstone will be the first Revenant when Heart of Thorns releases.”
-GW2 Wiki,
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revenant

“And Rytlock is returning to the world as the First EVER Revenant…”
-GW2 Livestream Pax South 2015, 35:44,
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/watch-the-replay-of-our-live-expansion-announcement-at-pax-south/

It could totally work if they come from the mists, it would be an even bigger plot hole loop if a new race was introduced but anet know wee want a new race but what about a hole new class that functions like a race, take death knights for example W.O.W. Would be awesome to see this happen

ok guys – mists touch everything and everywhen – rytlock was the first revenant to leave the mists – however, the new magic rippled to those heroes in the past – you’re questioning the timeline of something that transcends time

Maybe they will make a new heavy armor class, but it’s not named Revenant at that time. You level it to 80 in the old maps then go to the new maps. There you will have an instance where you are transported to the mists. You will be transformed into a Revenant and when you leave your character class name is changed and you have the new Revenant skills.

It doesn’t make sense for revenants to do the whole personal story to kill Zhaitan. I believe that if you create a revenant, you will just start in the new Maguuma map and you won’t have access to the Zhaitan storyline.

Zanshin.5379:

It doesn’t make sense for revenants to do the whole personal story to kill Zhaitan. I believe that if you create a revenant, you will just start in the new Maguuma map and you won’t have access to the Zhaitan storyline.

I was thinking that. But it makes a plothole if your char at least doesn’t have the option. You get called Commander in the game and the Biconics call you boss and follow you because they know you as the Commander of the Pact and one of the main people who killed Zhaitan.

their starting area is the same as everyone else. people really need to stop thinking revenant will be this special favorite child that gets different treatment from everyone else.

and before anyone shouts GW1, the only reason the new professions in GW1 had a different starting area was because those professions were tied to the continent, and the continent of origin was GW1’s equivalent of races. so it wasn’t the “assassin starting area is different”, it’s “the canthan starting area is different”.

I hope they thought up something clever because I can’t think of a way that doesn’t cause a plot hole or problem somewhere

If level in old map with the Zhaitan story line, will they be a Revenant before there are Revenants?
If no Zhaitan story line, how will the story line handle the other chars being commander and the Revenant not?
If level in the new zone: iirc they said it’s all level 80 maps. So, do they have a map “in the mists?” If they level there, will it be hordes of Revenants and only Revenants running around there? How do they keep that map population up enough later down the line when only a few people are making a Revenant? The map will be almost deserted.

The only thing I can think of is a new profession with basic, non Revenant skills, that level in the old map, has the Zhaitan story line, and transforms to Revenant after level 80 in the new map. I have no idea what they would call it though. If they call it Revenant, there is the problem again about being a Revenant before Rytlock. If they call it something else (before the transformation) it will confuse all the people who don’t know this and are looking for Revenants in character selection.

i said before but there is NO issue with timelines, revenants get their power from the mists which touches everything and every time – in the mists, time is nothing (go see the fractals) so why are so many people worried about plot holes in timelines when you’re dealing with something that is timeless – use your imaginations – jeez

Rem.9627:

oh btw heres the definition of the name incase anywone is confused.

rev·e·nant
?rev??näN,-n?nt/
noun
noun: revenant; plural noun: revenants

a person who has returned, especially supposedly from the dead.

DeadBones.2938:

Rem.9627:

oh btw heres the definition of the name incase anywone is confused.

rev·e·nant
?rev??näN,-n?nt/
noun
noun: revenant; plural noun: revenants

a person who has returned, especially supposedly from the dead.

or from a long journey (rytlock)

Lord Trejgon.2809:

nGumball.1283:

It is a class, not a race. They will not get their own starting area.

Paragons and dervishes back in gw1 was also classes and If you played prop/faction earlier then they had different starting area than rest of classes you had :P

That’s not entirely true. Every nightfall character had the same starting area. Paragons and dervishes were exclusive to Elona so obviously they won’t start in pre-searing Ascalon. But you could create an already existing profession in nightfall and have the same starting area as the new profs.

They did not have an own starting area because they were added later or because they were “special” but because of the new continent coming with the expansion.

the whole wibbly wobbly timey wimey thing also has me excited though – we can channel the power of anything and anyone, legends long dead, legends still living and legends unborn – time is nothing in the mists

Here’s the problem with this idea. The only way that I can see how that would work is if Revenant started out as a level 80, and I don’t see Anet doing that. The new areas are all level 80 areas I believe, this is supposed to be really challenging stuff for us to take on as an addition to endgame sort of.

Gandalf.3516:

Here’s the problem with this idea. The only way that I can see how that would work is if Revenant started out as a level 80, and I don’t see Anet doing that. The new areas are all level 80 areas I believe, this is supposed to be really challenging stuff for us to take on as an addition to endgame sort of.

… have you not read any of my posts
/sigh
ok
- revenants get their power from the mists

-the mists exist outside (or rather are) time itself

-WHEN a hero obtains this new power is irrelevant – rytlock was the first to obtain it, yes, but is that in the world of tyria or in the mists?

-am i making any sense? :P

Rem.9627:

Its got to be in the mists….

I mean its got to be… You awaken as a newly undead…

and maybe just maybe Rytlock is there to help you out of the mists….and back to Tyria.

I have been thinking that this would be the angle anet would approach from..seeing as how it cant be a slap on to the old story without continuity errors…..

Discuss please.

Starting areas are based around which RACE you choose, not which class. The Revenant is a class based on channeling the spirits of past heroes and it’s starting area won’t be any different than that of current ones. Don’t expect more than that.

Its not a plothole.
Ingw1 you could complete the Prophecies and Factions storylines as a Dervish or Paragon even though both of those events happened in the past

If you create a revenant you do so knowing that you are reliving the past although your character is grounded in present events.

Just as if you killed the Lich as a Dervish you did so knowing you were reliving the past, even though your character was already dealing with Abaddon.

Just because the name is generally used in fantasy to describe a ghost does not mean the GW2 Revenant has died. It’s perfectly possible for the living to go to the Mists and return, or I’d be giving all those Mist Wars recruiters in the cities a real hairy eyeball.

I believe the profession name is referring to the channeling of dead heroes who are thus revenants, not to the PC being reborn.

Short version is that we don’t know anything yet so while we can all speculate don’t start tearing each other’s throats out over your disagreements in -speculation- and -unconfirmed- information.

With that said, Revenant in this case does not mean one has become undead, it means one who has returned. It can mean both, it just depends on the context it is used in. Revenant is derived from the word reveniens, which is Latin for ‘returning’.

I rather dislike when people only, for some reason, understand one piece of the definition of a word and not look at the context it is being used in. Just…egh.

ensoriki.5789:

Its not a plothole.
Ingw1 you could complete the Prophecies and Factions storylines as a Dervish or Paragon even though both of those events happened in the past

If you create a revenant you do so knowing that you are reliving the past although your character is grounded in present events.

Just as if you killed the Lich as a Dervish you did so knowing you were reliving the past, even though your character was already dealing with Abaddon.

I still see plot holes with the reliving the past theory.

Did my Revenant go back into the past or is he is remembering what he did in the past? Either way there is still the plot hole of a Revenant before Rytlock.

Is he still in the present but experiencing what happened to another? If he is experiencing someone else’s story, then is he going to be called Commander afterwards? The other people in that story, Logan, Traehearn etc don’t know him because they did it with the person whose story he experienced, not my char so they have no reason to call him Commander.

What they did in gw1 for characters of different campaigns was say “the events that took place happened before you came here.” or was it after, I don’t know, but that would be a convinient way to to this

A Massive Headache.1879:

What they did in gw1 for characters of different campaigns was say “the events that took place happened before you came here.” or was it after, I don’t know, but that would be a convinient way to to this

Probably, and then sort of gloss over and ignore any logical fails.

Astral Projections.7320:

ensoriki.5789:

Its not a plothole.
Ingw1 you could complete the Prophecies and Factions storylines as a Dervish or Paragon even though both of those events happened in the past

If you create a revenant you do so knowing that you are reliving the past although your character is grounded in present events.

Just as if you killed the Lich as a Dervish you did so knowing you were reliving the past, even though your character was already dealing with Abaddon.

I still see plot holes with the reliving the past theory.

Did my Revenant go back into the past or is he is remembering what he did in the past? Either way there is still the plot hole of a Revenant before Rytlock.

Is he still in the present but experiencing what happened to another? If he is experiencing someone else’s story, then is he going to be called Commander afterwards? The other people in that story, Logan, Traehearn etc don’t know him because they did it with the person whose story he experienced, not my char so they have no reason to call him Commander.

No its not a plot hole because it’s not part of the plot.

The whole thing in GW2 wasn’t you going to the past, thats how I’m explaining it.
It was non-canon. In other words it wasn’t part of the actual story.

If Rytlok is the first, and your human characters starts in DR to beat Zhaitain its a totally non-canon experience.

ensoriki.5789:

Astral Projections.7320:

ensoriki.5789:

Its not a plothole.
Ingw1 you could complete the Prophecies and Factions storylines as a Dervish or Paragon even though both of those events happened in the past

If you create a revenant you do so knowing that you are reliving the past although your character is grounded in present events.

Just as if you killed the Lich as a Dervish you did so knowing you were reliving the past, even though your character was already dealing with Abaddon.

I still see plot holes with the reliving the past theory.

Did my Revenant go back into the past or is he is remembering what he did in the past? Either way there is still the plot hole of a Revenant before Rytlock.

Is he still in the present but experiencing what happened to another? If he is experiencing someone else’s story, then is he going to be called Commander afterwards? The other people in that story, Logan, Traehearn etc don’t know him because they did it with the person whose story he experienced, not my char so they have no reason to call him Commander.

No its not a plot hole because it’s not part of the plot.

The whole thing in GW2 wasn’t you going to the past, thats how I’m explaining it.
It was non-canon. In other words it wasn’t part of the actual story.

If Rytlok is the first, and your human characters starts in DR to beat Zhaitain its a totally non-canon experience.

I’m afraid I don’t understand how if my guardian does the personal story, it’s canon. If my Revenant does the exact same thing, it’s non-canon. That rather sounds like special pleading to me.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Special_pleading
“Special pleading is a formal logical fallacy where a participant demands special considerations for a particular premise of theirs. Usually this is because in order for their argument to work, they need to provide some way to get out of a logical inconsistency — in a lot of cases, this will be the fact that their argument contradicts past arguments or actions. Therefore, they introduce a “special case” or an exception to their rules."

In this case there are logical inconsistencies that appear. One type is if my new Revenant does the story line and another if he experiences as a past situation. If you say it’s non canon for him but not my other 8 chars, that also needs to be explained how come when he does it, the rules change for him when nothing about the story changes when each char does it.

Getefix.9150:

i said before but there is NO issue with timelines, revenants get their power from the mists which touches everything and every time – in the mists, time is nothing (go see the fractals) so why are so many people worried about plot holes in timelines when you’re dealing with something that is timeless – use your imaginations – jeez

So you are saying that Rytlock went back in time to teach us how to be Revenet’s?…

ensoriki.5789:

Astral Projections.7320:

ensoriki.5789:

Its not a plothole.
Ingw1 you could complete the Prophecies and Factions storylines as a Dervish or Paragon even though both of those events happened in the past

If you create a revenant you do so knowing that you are reliving the past although your character is grounded in present events.

Just as if you killed the Lich as a Dervish you did so knowing you were reliving the past, even though your character was already dealing with Abaddon.

I still see plot holes with the reliving the past theory.

Did my Revenant go back into the past or is he is remembering what he did in the past? Either way there is still the plot hole of a Revenant before Rytlock.

Is he still in the present but experiencing what happened to another? If he is experiencing someone else’s story, then is he going to be called Commander afterwards? The other people in that story, Logan, Traehearn etc don’t know him because they did it with the person whose story he experienced, not my char so they have no reason to call him Commander.

No its not a plot hole because it’s not part of the plot.

The whole thing in GW2 wasn’t you going to the past, thats how I’m explaining it.
It was non-canon. In other words it wasn’t part of the actual story.

If Rytlok is the first, and your human characters starts in DR to beat Zhaitain its a totally non-canon experience.

I don’t believe that Rytlock is the 1st to ever exist, that would mean that he had to go back in time to teach us how to be a Revenant… I think he is just the 1st we see in game.

Ok so after reading this I don’t see the problem to much. Rytlock comes back the first named Revenant. Does not mean that there are or was not those among the storyline that did not have some unknown unnamed power that they did not understand fully and you missed it cause there was like thousands of other beings involved through out the game play. Also talk about loopholes why are there other people who get called boss after all your character went through it right. The story goes through for each person the same way with minor differences. You want to role play it with lore. Roleplay it as you have no clue what your called till after Rytlock returns. OH thats what it is. I need to further my training. another note it would be easy to put a new race into the game when they are ready. after all the tengu walled themselves off from the rest of the world so they have their little area already set aside so you never know when they may find out that the dragons won’t care about their wall.

I have another question, how often does your profession get mentioned at all, including references to it in dialogue, throughout the personal story? if it’s none, the only issue is that the first revenant didn’t appear until after zhaitan is dead… no wait, that’s special pleading I guess. I’m not against special pleading, I don’t think. OR they could have the next story could involve a profession warm up, such as revenants actually leaving the mist after they killed zhaitan in a parallel world.

Nitegale.3950:

nGumball.1283:

Thank you for your very respectful reply.
Unlike GW1, GW2 classes doesn’t have a connection to the lore and therefore I don’t see any issue with the matter. Otherwise, none said that Rytlock was the first Revenant.

Actually the lead Game developer said he was the 1st Revenant.

“Rytlock Brimstone will be the first Revenant when Heart of Thorns releases.”
-GW2 Wiki,
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revenant

“And Rytlock is returning to the world as the First EVER Revenant…”
-GW2 Livestream Pax South 2015, 35:44,
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/watch-the-replay-of-our-live-expansion-announcement-at-pax-south/

That only says first Revenant in the game. Not the first in the lore of the GWverse.

Letifer.4360:

Getefix.9150:

i said before but there is NO issue with timelines, revenants get their power from the mists which touches everything and every time – in the mists, time is nothing (go see the fractals) so why are so many people worried about plot holes in timelines when you’re dealing with something that is timeless – use your imaginations – jeez

So you are saying that Rytlock went back in time to teach us how to be Revenet’s?…

No, something far easier. When he became a Revenant, his power echo’d throughout the Mists, touching the past and future simultaneously, awakening all Revenants to their power.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Letifer.4360:

Getefix.9150:

i said before but there is NO issue with timelines, revenants get their power from the mists which touches everything and every time – in the mists, time is nothing (go see the fractals) so why are so many people worried about plot holes in timelines when you’re dealing with something that is timeless – use your imaginations – jeez

So you are saying that Rytlock went back in time to teach us how to be Revenet’s?…

No, something far easier. When he became a Revenant, his power echo’d throughout the Mists, touching the past and future simultaneously, awakening all Revenants to their power.

That might work as a Star Trek type of rewrite of the timeline. ^^

If his becoming a Revenant had a burst of magical energy that spread both to the past and future that caused latent Revenants to appear in the new timeline in the past and the old timeline to be cut off or disappear.

It is highly plausible to have revenants start in normal starting areas and leave the mists. The reason being is this.

We are told Rytlock is the first revenant NOT the first revenant and the first revenant to leave the mists.

In other words: Rytlock can stay in the mists, become the first revenant, train others and have them leave first while he trains more. This can allow for Zaihtan also. Since mists time is not bound and therefore there really is no time as such (if you think about it).

ok look at it this way. Say person a is the first to train as something. if we assume they are the first to leave have they trained others fully? maybe not. then this would be pointless.

However, if person a masters A class and trains persons B to Z. Then persons B-Z can leave when they have fully completed their training with person A still in the training room training more. like building an army. person a would still be the first but not the first to leave the mists as that class

Hence we are told Rytlock is the first revenant yes. But we were not told he was the first revenant and the first to leave. this would assume then, who is training the rest? you would need more fully trained who have mastered to also stay in the mists for rytlock to leave when there are enough to train more. Rytlock either way would be the first revenant at any point. to be the first revenant is not that he has to leave to be fully revenant. just that he trained to be and became the first in the mists therefore no matter of he stays he is still and always would be the first even when he is not the first to leave.

i see most assume being the first revenant means he is the first to leave yet this is not the case at all. there are many instances that can be called where the first to learn does not have to be the first to leave.

so when you go for training in your ps. etc. the early bit? you can still come back before zaihtan and before rytlock comes back and rytlock still be the first to have become a revenant. he just did not leave before you but that takes nothing away from him being the first.

this also allows for the same starting maps for each race that decides to become revenant and changes nothing and allows for adding the new class starting at lvl 1.

the general trains the troops then sends the troops ahead of himself when they have completed training. this does not change the fact the general trained first.

i don’t know how else or any other way to explain the simple concept. this has nothing to do with undead and when did rytlock die? i thought undead were controlled by zaihtan, and isn’t zaihtan now in durmand priory? well part of him (Tail). Rytlock does not look undead or dead or anything like anything else but still the same charr he was except he seems to enjoy playing blindman’s buff. ALOT.

It’s easy to figure out that much is possible.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Letifer.4360:

Getefix.9150:

i said before but there is NO issue with timelines, revenants get their power from the mists which touches everything and every time – in the mists, time is nothing (go see the fractals) so why are so many people worried about plot holes in timelines when you’re dealing with something that is timeless – use your imaginations – jeez

So you are saying that Rytlock went back in time to teach us how to be Revenet’s?…

No, something far easier. When he became a Revenant, his power echo’d throughout the Mists, touching the past and future simultaneously, awakening all Revenants to their power.

That is ridiculous… they aren’t Death knights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCr7y4SLhck) they are Revenants.

i could imagine they introduce a new introducing area (like the sylvari dream) for revenants (race independent). when revenants are people escaping from the mists why not show the escape? it would totally make sense, more sense like the normal racial introduction. ridlock managed to open a way out of the mists and maybe its open permanently. so ridlock would be the first revenant and everybody who follows will be another. the starting instances are tiny, shouldnt be to much work to do, it would be a nice little feature and it would fit lorewise (for the timeline, the exitpoint of the mist could lie in the past. we already know time is not a fixed thing in the mists)

Its possible.

Simply have a 1-20 area for Revenant only. Then at the end of the level 20 storyline, they escape the mist and do the zhaitan mission.

I don’t think they need their own story at all, just a starting area would make sense.