Guild Wars 2

Anet should have learned from Blizzard and made a starter zone similar to how Blizzard did for Death Knights.

Knighthonor.4061:

Anet should have learned from Blizzard and made a starter zone similar to how Blizzard did for Death Knights.

If they did, they would also have learned why Blizzard never did it again.

Iason Evan.3806:

I started a thread about this but after no one responded to what I thought was an interesting subject, I will post this here as well. No personal story for the Revenant.

http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/2/18/8061219/guild-wars-2-profession-reveal-revenant-pc-mmo-arenanet
This has some very revealing things about the Rev. in it as it pertains to story:
“While the revenant is very story-driven compared to other professions in the game, ArenaNet says it will not make class-specific story content for them.‘We want professions to have more story to them about why they exist and why they’ve come about,’ Peters says. ‘But one of the things we learned in the original Guild Wars 2 release is that when we gave people a bunch of story paths to go down, they only played one of them. It’s better for us to give players choices along the way but not have those choices make them go in a different direction and not play a thing we spent a lot of time building.’ "

Imo, it makes sense they won’t have a personal story where they kill Zhaitan. Their story starts after his death. You have to twist things around and say things like, they are doing it as a memory, to make it even sort of fit.

Astral Projections.7320:

Iason Evan.3806:

I started a thread about this but after no one responded to what I thought was an interesting subject, I will post this here as well. No personal story for the Revenant.

http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/2/18/8061219/guild-wars-2-profession-reveal-revenant-pc-mmo-arenanet
This has some very revealing things about the Rev. in it as it pertains to story:
“While the revenant is very story-driven compared to other professions in the game, ArenaNet says it will not make class-specific story content for them.‘We want professions to have more story to them about why they exist and why they’ve come about,’ Peters says. ‘But one of the things we learned in the original Guild Wars 2 release is that when we gave people a bunch of story paths to go down, they only played one of them. It’s better for us to give players choices along the way but not have those choices make them go in a different direction and not play a thing we spent a lot of time building.’ "

Imo, it makes sense they won’t have a personal story where they kill Zhaitan. Their story starts after his death. You have to twist things around and say things like, they are doing it as a memory, to make it even sort of fit.

umm… they’ll play the same personal story as everyone else: humble beginnings, join an order, form the pact, kill zhaitan.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Astral Projections.7320:

Iason Evan.3806:

I started a thread about this but after no one responded to what I thought was an interesting subject, I will post this here as well. No personal story for the Revenant.

http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/2/18/8061219/guild-wars-2-profession-reveal-revenant-pc-mmo-arenanet
This has some very revealing things about the Rev. in it as it pertains to story:
“While the revenant is very story-driven compared to other professions in the game, ArenaNet says it will not make class-specific story content for them.‘We want professions to have more story to them about why they exist and why they’ve come about,’ Peters says. ‘But one of the things we learned in the original Guild Wars 2 release is that when we gave people a bunch of story paths to go down, they only played one of them. It’s better for us to give players choices along the way but not have those choices make them go in a different direction and not play a thing we spent a lot of time building.’ "

Imo, it makes sense they won’t have a personal story where they kill Zhaitan. Their story starts after his death. You have to twist things around and say things like, they are doing it as a memory, to make it even sort of fit.

umm… they’ll play the same personal story as everyone else: humble beginnings, join an order, form the pact, kill zhaitan.

What does this mean then?

’ArenaNet says it will not make class-specific story content for them.‘

What other class specific story lines are they talking about? I’m drawing a blank on what class specific stories my other chars had.

Astral Projections.7320:

What does this mean then?

’ArenaNet says it will not make class-specific story content for them.‘

What other class specific story lines are they talking about? I’m drawing a blank on what class specific stories my other chars had.

It means that no other profession had profession specific stories and neither will the revenant. Don’t overthink the obvious.

all they have to do is replacing the intro-sequence with something more specific.

e.g. "i’m a Human …blahblahblah I’ve been born in the streets blahblahblah … i died in (choice here <murder/accident/stupidity>)… i found some strange Charr in the Mists who told me his secrets of using the power of ancient heroes and showed me the way out with the words “learn to fight a dragon!”.. im not pretty sure what he means with that … im XYZ .. and this is my story"

Astral Projections.7320:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Astral Projections.7320:

Iason Evan.3806:

I started a thread about this but after no one responded to what I thought was an interesting subject, I will post this here as well. No personal story for the Revenant.

http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/2/18/8061219/guild-wars-2-profession-reveal-revenant-pc-mmo-arenanet
This has some very revealing things about the Rev. in it as it pertains to story:
“While the revenant is very story-driven compared to other professions in the game, ArenaNet says it will not make class-specific story content for them.‘We want professions to have more story to them about why they exist and why they’ve come about,’ Peters says. ‘But one of the things we learned in the original Guild Wars 2 release is that when we gave people a bunch of story paths to go down, they only played one of them. It’s better for us to give players choices along the way but not have those choices make them go in a different direction and not play a thing we spent a lot of time building.’ "

Imo, it makes sense they won’t have a personal story where they kill Zhaitan. Their story starts after his death. You have to twist things around and say things like, they are doing it as a memory, to make it even sort of fit.

umm… they’ll play the same personal story as everyone else: humble beginnings, join an order, form the pact, kill zhaitan.

What does this mean then?

’ArenaNet says it will not make class-specific story content for them.‘

What other class specific story lines are they talking about? I’m drawing a blank on what class specific stories my other chars had.

it means “hey, people that think the revenant will have its own story… that ain’t happening, drop it”.

it doesn’t mean “revenant players will skip the whole first campaign”, i can’t even begin to understand how you got that from that statement.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Astral Projections.7320:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Astral Projections.7320:

Iason Evan.3806:

I started a thread about this but after no one responded to what I thought was an interesting subject, I will post this here as well. No personal story for the Revenant.

http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/2/18/8061219/guild-wars-2-profession-reveal-revenant-pc-mmo-arenanet
This has some very revealing things about the Rev. in it as it pertains to story:
“While the revenant is very story-driven compared to other professions in the game, ArenaNet says it will not make class-specific story content for them.‘We want professions to have more story to them about why they exist and why they’ve come about,’ Peters says. ‘But one of the things we learned in the original Guild Wars 2 release is that when we gave people a bunch of story paths to go down, they only played one of them. It’s better for us to give players choices along the way but not have those choices make them go in a different direction and not play a thing we spent a lot of time building.’ "

Imo, it makes sense they won’t have a personal story where they kill Zhaitan. Their story starts after his death. You have to twist things around and say things like, they are doing it as a memory, to make it even sort of fit.

umm… they’ll play the same personal story as everyone else: humble beginnings, join an order, form the pact, kill zhaitan.

What does this mean then?

’ArenaNet says it will not make class-specific story content for them.‘

What other class specific story lines are they talking about? I’m drawing a blank on what class specific stories my other chars had.

it means “hey, people that think the revenant will have its own story… that ain’t happening, drop it”.

it doesn’t mean “revenant players will skip the whole first campaign”, i can’t even begin to understand how you got that from that statement.

I haven’t seen many threads where people were expecting it to have it’s own separate story line. All the threads I’ve seen are asking, how can the Revenant, who started out after the events that led to the death of Zhaitan, do the story line where they kill him?

It’s that sort of question, how can someone do something that happened before they start their adventures, that makes it possible that that quote means the Revenant won’t do the Zhaitan story line.

Right now the sequence of events is
Zhaitan is killed
Scarlet happens
Rtylock goes to the Mists
He comes back as a Revenant
The new Revenant are made or born or trained.
Then they go kill Zhaitan?

On one hand, it is possible that ANet will ignore all that and they will have a story line where they kill a dragon that was killed before they came into being. On the other hand, it is an expansion and expansions do tend to come with their own story line and the new characters made have those, not the old story line, as their primary story. In this case, the Living Story about killing the new dragon, Mordremoth, could be the story line that the Revenant has.

revenant will only be avalible in u buy HoT and if u bought it you know the story and everything, so if they give u a player a new starting area after zhaiten is dead but u do still do the story it doesnt effect anything cuz we the player know the deal

Loex.5104:

e.g. "i’m a Human …blahblahblah I’ve been born in the streets blahblahblah … i died in (choice here <murder/accident/stupidity>)…

I think we’re taking revenant a bit literally here. I haven’t heard anything about them being dead, or undead.

Astral Projections.7320:

Right now the sequence of events is
Zhaitan is killed
Scarlet happens
Rtylock goes to the Mists
He comes back as a Revenant
The new Revenant are made or born or trained.
Then they go kill Zhaitan?

I think there’s precedent in GW1. They’ll probably just ignore any lore inconsistencies since it would take a lot of effort to make it all make sense. In much the same way Anet didn’t create a new race for HoT because they felt that the effort would be wasted when they could create a new profession. I think it’s a matter of cost benefit and the benefit of making the lore make sense isn’t out weighed by the cost in terms of time and effort.

Not going to happen, classes don’t get nothing. Maybe like a talk to Rytlock quest or something, no personal story or anything. Definitely NOT a starting area. Balls in your court Anet… prove me wrong!

My take on this.

In a regular MMO, time doesn’t flow between expansions. This is the sort of world a static story belongs in. In Guild Wars 2, time does flow. This means the personal story is fundamentally at odds with the living story. It is a static piece set in a game world that is changing. The older the game gets, the more logical inconsistencies between it and the surrounding world pop up.

Now, a new player starting on his story must run past broken probes. Run through a Kessex hills altered by someone who appeared after the story ended. He will see the giant Marionette lying on the ground and speak to a Tybalt selling apples in a city that is now in ruins. He can go to Orr and play alongside people who have already killed the dragon that is/was the master of the undead. A new player can turn a blind eye to all this but the older the game gets, the more the old personal story sticks out, away from the world it should have been a seamless part of.

My belief is that ANet wants to get away from the static personal story. It’s not how they want to have the story told. What better time to step away from it than with the first expansion. Since logically the Revenant can’t kill Zhaitan, then why try to shoehorn him into the story? My guess is the Revenant will start in the old world but his personal story will be the living story. Maybe they will unlock season two for all players on it and he will be directed to do that and then continue with season 3 and off to kill Mordremoth or maybe he will start with season 3 only.

Sooner or later, they are going to have to abandon the old personal story. In the years to come, if they have new races or new professions in expansions 2, 3, or 4, will they still be doing the personal story even though they also don’t fit? It’s less “painful” to do a break with it now.

Another thing to consider. The massive number of tome and writs we are getting now. Why are we getting so many? By the time the expansion starts, every current player should have more than enough enough to fast forward to level 80. New players will also be getting these. It’s possible we are getting so many to bypass the personal story and allow the new profession to get to the new area as fast as possible.

TL:DR
One thing they could do is have an NPC who any new professions (and races) speak to, who remembers the Zhaitan story and who can unlock the personal story as a side story as an optional thing for the player to do. The NPC can explain to the player that they are doing events that happened in the past to other people. This way they won’t be in a story where they don’t fit and new players aren’t blocked from seeing it.

Astral Projections.7320:

My take on this.

In a regular MMO, time doesn’t flow between expansions. This is the sort of world a static story belongs in. In Guild Wars 2, time does flow. This means the personal story is fundamentally at odds with the living story. It is a static piece set in a game world that is changing. The older the game gets, the more logical inconsistencies between it and the surrounding world pop up.

Now, a new player starting on his story must run past broken probes. Run through a Kessex hills altered by someone who appeared after the story ended. He will see the giant Marionette lying on the ground and speak to a Tybalt selling apples in a city that is now in ruins. He can go to Orr and play alongside people who have already killed the dragon that is/was the master of the undead. A new player can turn a blind eye to all this but the older the game gets, the more the old personal story sticks out, away from the world it should have been a seamless part of.

My belief is that ANet wants to get away from the static personal story. It’s not how they want to have the story told. What better time to step away from it than with the first expansion. Since logically the Revenant can’t kill Zhaitan, then why try to shoehorn him into the story? My guess is the Revenant will start in the old world but his personal story will be the living story. Maybe they will unlock season two for all players on it and he will be directed to do that and then continue with season 3 and off to kill Mordremoth or maybe he will start with season 3 only.

Sooner or later, they are going to have to abandon the old personal story. In the years to come, if they have new races or new professions in expansions 2, 3, or 4, will they still be doing the personal story even though they also don’t fit? It’s less “painful” to do a break with it now.

Another thing to consider. The massive number of tome and writs we are getting now. Why are we getting so many? By the time the expansion starts, every current player should have more than enough enough to fast forward to level 80. New players will also be getting these. It’s possible we are getting so many to bypass the personal story and allow the new profession to get to the new area as fast as possible.

TL:DR
One thing they could do is have an NPC who any new professions (and races) speak to, who remembers the Zhaitan story and who can unlock the personal story as a side story as an optional thing for the player to do. The NPC can explain to the player that they are doing events that happened in the past to other people. This way they won’t be in a story where they don’t fit and new players aren’t blocked from seeing it.

They could do any of the million suggestions, but it seems Arenanet simply choose not to.
Personally, from a cost standpoint I agree. Why waste the effort on something that wont last more than a few hours while costing a lot of resources.

Also the precedence was set in Guild wars 1. New classes completely broke the lore.A dervish could finish prophecies even though prophecies happens before nightfall. It is one of those things that players simply have to accept.

silvermember.8941:

They could do any of the million suggestions, but it seems Arenanet simply choose not to.
Personally, from a cost standpoint I agree. Why waste the effort on something that wont last more than a few hours while costing a lot of resources.

Also the precedence was set in Guild wars 1. New classes completely broke the lore.A dervish could finish prophecies even though prophecies happens before nightfall. It is one of those things that players simply have to accept.

Yeah. I can stand a little bit of illogic but something about a personal story where it’s impossible according to that profession’s specific backstory really bugs me. Knowing that they can avoid the whole mess by having NPC who gives it to them as a “memory quest” makes me hope they did it that way. If they have a “memory” NPC, he can give the story to any later professions or races without causing storyline contradictions.

Just pretend that your revenant became a revenant post-Zhaitan/LW S1-2 content but some some other profession before! Not that hard. I suspect it’s not that you want an obvious, easy-fix solution that requires a little active imagination on your part, but that you simply want the revenant to receive special snowflake status.

Genesis.8572:

Just pretend that your revenant became a revenant post-Zhaitan/LW S1-2 content but some some other profession before! Not that hard. I suspect it’s not that you want an obvious, easy-fix solution that requires a little active imagination on your part, but that you simply want the revenant to receive special snowflake status.

Uh huh. No doubt that’s it. (Rolls eyes)

There will be text on the screen:

These events took place before your return to Tyria

In every LS mission.

That’s how they handled it in GW1, and that’s how they’ll handle it in GW2. There’s no reason to suspect otherwise, as adding such a massive amount of content specific to a single profession is bad from an impact standpoint, when you’re attempting to develop an expansion’s worth of personal story for already existing characters.

They may give revs the new HOT story as the first thing in their journal, and POSSIBLY a class-specific starter mission (which ejects them from the mists to their appropriate starting zone at the end) and add a few historian NPCs so they have the ability to play the original LS.

That’s about the absolute maximum I’d expect though. An entirely new rev specific 1-80 LS or starting zone is an unreasonable expectation of effort when considering the already massive effort in personal story extension for existing L80 characters.

Astral Projections.7320:

Genesis.8572:

Just pretend that your revenant became a revenant post-Zhaitan/LW S1-2 content but some some other profession before! Not that hard. I suspect it’s not that you want an obvious, easy-fix solution that requires a little active imagination on your part, but that you simply want the revenant to receive special snowflake status.

Uh huh. No doubt that’s it. (Rolls eyes)

Yes, I get it. People have objections to lore chronology, but the expectation being flaunted that ArenaNet give the Revenant something extra in the character story – even post-Red post saying otherwise – seems like vanity and a chasing of wind. It’s not happening, but it’s not the end of the world, time and space in Tyria, or the death of Guild Wars lore.

So while you bemoan the lack of a proper revenant story, I’m busy making my own. A human guardian with dead parents who after discovering their fate and deals with Zhaitan goes diving in the mists for more answers where he becomes a revenant so he can hopefully kick more White Mantle butt in Heart of Thrones.

Genesis.8572:

Astral Projections.7320:

Genesis.8572:

Just pretend that your revenant became a revenant post-Zhaitan/LW S1-2 content but some some other profession before! Not that hard. I suspect it’s not that you want an obvious, easy-fix solution that requires a little active imagination on your part, but that you simply want the revenant to receive special snowflake status.

Uh huh. No doubt that’s it. (Rolls eyes)

Yes, I get it. People have objections to lore chronology, but the expectation being flaunted that ArenaNet give the Revenant something extra in the character story – even post-Red post saying otherwise – seems like vanity and a chasing of wind. It’s not happening, but it’s not the end of the world, time and space in Tyria, or the death of Guild Wars lore.

So while you bemoan the lack of a proper revenant story, I’m busy making my own. A human guardian with dead parents who after discovering their fate and deals with Zhaitan goes diving in the mists for more answers where he becomes a revenant so he can hopefully kick more White Mantle butt in Heart of Thrones.

Ummmm. Did you even read what I posted?

I’m not bemoaning the lack of proper revenenant story. If you had actually read (and understood) what I said, I said the old story is logically impossible therefore it should be left off (except as an optional side quest) and that the Revenant’s story should be the season 3 Living Story (which will be the same story for all professions, not just the Revenant). So, I’m actually saying, no specific story for the Revenant, the opposite of what you said.

Please read the actual posts before making comments. K thx.

Astral Projections.7320:

Genesis.8572:

Astral Projections.7320:

Genesis.8572:

Just pretend that your revenant became a revenant post-Zhaitan/LW S1-2 content but some some other profession before! Not that hard. I suspect it’s not that you want an obvious, easy-fix solution that requires a little active imagination on your part, but that you simply want the revenant to receive special snowflake status.

Uh huh. No doubt that’s it. (Rolls eyes)

Yes, I get it. People have objections to lore chronology, but the expectation being flaunted that ArenaNet give the Revenant something extra in the character story – even post-Red post saying otherwise – seems like vanity and a chasing of wind. It’s not happening, but it’s not the end of the world, time and space in Tyria, or the death of Guild Wars lore.

So while you bemoan the lack of a proper revenant story, I’m busy making my own. A human guardian with dead parents who after discovering their fate and deals with Zhaitan goes diving in the mists for more answers where he becomes a revenant so he can hopefully kick more White Mantle butt in Heart of Thrones.

Ummmm. Did you even read what I posted?

I’m not bemoaning the lack of proper revenenant story. If you had actually read (and understood) what I said, I said the old story is logically impossible therefore it should be left off (except as an optional side quest) and that the Revenant’s story should be the season 3 Living Story (which will be the same story for all professions, not just the Revenant). So, I’m actually saying, no specific story for the Revenant, the opposite of what you said.

Please read the actual posts before making comments. K thx.

The old story is no more logically impossible actually it is far less logically impossible than the the introduction of the Nightfall classes to prophecies. There is no point in Arenanet trying to make the revenant story, when a much efficient way would be to simply handwave it like they have in the past.

Those who follow the lore closely since guild wars 1 already know and have simply accepted it. Making season 3 about the revenant just seems so pointless, where progressing the story should be more important.

silvermember.8941:

The old story is no more logically impossible actually it is far less logically impossible than the the introduction of the Nightfall classes to prophecies. There is no point in Arenanet trying to make the revenant story, when a much efficient way would be to simply handwave it like they have in the past.

Those who follow the lore closely since guild wars 1 already know and have simply accepted it. Making season 3 about the revenant just seems so pointless, where progressing the story should be more important.

(As a comment, I didn’t say make season 3 about the Revenant. I said not have a different story then season 3, which is the same for all of the professions.)

I’ve figured you would come back and say that about the lore so I thought about it a bit and why it feels different to me. My conclusion, it’s two things. One is the difference between a static game and an evolving game. Second, my new professions in the other expansions (we’ll call them expansions for ease of word use) were not specifically told in their back story that their existence is owed (for example) to the death of the Undead Lich.

static game vs evolving.
When my Rit went to Prophesies and did the quest line there, yes it is illogical but when she arrived there, since that game is static, when she starts the story line and works through it, it feels the same to her as if she arrived in the past and moved forward from there. In gw2 though, the signs are everywhere that my new char is not in the past but is in the present and is jumping to the past to do the story then coming back to the present. (This is the small illogics that I said earlier that I can stand).

Reason for existence
If we use the Revenant as an example, It’s would be as if my Ritualist knows that her profession is around only because someone else killed the Undead Lich and she then goes to Prophesies to kill him. With a static game you can still (sort of) get around it because she leaves where she is and goes to another land, back to the past. It’s illogical but sort of works. Imo, in an evolving game where the new Revenant does not leave and go to another land and to the past but stays in the same land where Zhaitan is already dead (because his specific profession says so) and then goes to kill him causes a much greater illogical fail.

This is why I think the whole illogical fail can be avoided by the Revenant not having a personal story but an option to access it from an NPC as a memory from the ones that actually did it.

It is quite possible that they explore the story of the revenants appearing either in the new expansion zones or in the LS3. I find it unlikely that they will completely ignore the story aspects of a new class, especially because one of the ‘main’ characters is pioneering it. I think that their intention is more that the story of revenants appearing will not be revenant exclusive and instead accessible by everyone.

Astral Projections.7320:

Ummmm. Did you even read what I posted?

I’m not bemoaning the lack of proper revenenant story. If you had actually read (and understood) what I said, I said the old story is logically impossible therefore it should be left off (except as an optional side quest) and that the Revenant’s story should be the season 3 Living Story (which will be the same story for all professions, not just the Revenant). So, I’m actually saying, no specific story for the Revenant, the opposite of what you said.

Please read the actual posts before making comments. K thx.

Yes, the fast track solution. But, believe it or not, you are not the entirety of “people” to which I was referring in regards to logistical problems with the revenant. It still gives the revenant a special status that “skips” the prior story either through an automatic level 80 boost or cajoling the level 1 revenant into the post-80 content.

silvermember.8941:

The old story is no more logically impossible actually it is far less logically impossible than the the introduction of the Nightfall classes to prophecies. There is no point in Arenanet trying to make the revenant story, when a much efficient way would be to simply handwave it like they have in the past.

Those who follow the lore closely since guild wars 1 already know and have simply accepted it. Making season 3 about the revenant just seems so pointless, where progressing the story should be more important.

Agreed.

Genesis.8572:

Astral Projections.7320:

Ummmm. Did you even read what I posted?

I’m not bemoaning the lack of proper revenenant story. If you had actually read (and understood) what I said, I said the old story is logically impossible therefore it should be left off (except as an optional side quest) and that the Revenant’s story should be the season 3 Living Story (which will be the same story for all professions, not just the Revenant). So, I’m actually saying, no specific story for the Revenant, the opposite of what you said.

Please read the actual posts before making comments. K thx.

Yes, the fast track solution. But,* believe it or not, you are not the entirety of “people” to which I was referring in regards to logistical problems with the revenant*. It still gives the revenant a special status that “skips” the prior story either through an automatic level 80 boost or cajoling the level 1 revenant into the post-80 content.

Then don’t quote me and say that I’m doing the opposite of what I actually said. Address your comment as a general post, not as a reply.

Astral Projections.7320:

Then don’t quote me and say that I’m doing the opposite of what I actually said. Address your comment as a general post, not as a reply to me.

But you do want to treat the revenant as a special snowflake whose personal story differs from the other professions, correct?

Genesis.8572:

Astral Projections.7320:

Then don’t quote me and say that I’m doing the opposite of what I actually said. Address your comment as a general post, not as a reply to me.

But you do want to treat the revenant as a special snowflake whose personal story differs from the other professions, correct?

When you have an expansion in other games, do the new professions which start then do the new story line or the old story line?

Astral Projections.7320:

Genesis.8572:

Astral Projections.7320:

Then don’t quote me and say that I’m doing the opposite of what I actually said. Address your comment as a general post, not as a reply to me.

But you do want to treat the revenant as a special snowflake whose personal story differs from the other professions, correct?

When you have an expansion in other games, do the new professions which start then do the new story line or the old story line?

old. because the “new storyline” is just for the max level character (or previously max level, and now the new story branches between the old level cap and the new one).

blizzard tried giving an exclusive story to a class once, and never did it again. wonder why.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Astral Projections.7320:

Genesis.8572:

Astral Projections.7320:

Then don’t quote me and say that I’m doing the opposite of what I actually said. Address your comment as a general post, not as a reply to me.

But you do want to treat the revenant as a special snowflake whose personal story differs from the other professions, correct?

When you have an expansion in other games, do the new professions which start then do the new story line or the old story line?

old. because the “new storyline” is just for the max level character (or previously max level, and now the new story branches between the old level cap and the new one).

blizzard tried giving an exclusive story to a class once, and never did it again. wonder why.

I’ve never played other games besides Guild Wars 1, which is why I has to ask.

From the gw perspective though, when there was new professions they did their story line and had the ability to do other if they bought those, which is what I’m familiar with.

Another question, how do games handle professions where they are told they only exist because of events that have already happened? Do they still do the story where they are doing things before they were born (or became that profession)?

Astral Projections.7320:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Astral Projections.7320:

Genesis.8572:

Astral Projections.7320:

Then don’t quote me and say that I’m doing the opposite of what I actually said. Address your comment as a general post, not as a reply to me.

But you do want to treat the revenant as a special snowflake whose personal story differs from the other professions, correct?

When you have an expansion in other games, do the new professions which start then do the new story line or the old story line?

old. because the “new storyline” is just for the max level character (or previously max level, and now the new story branches between the old level cap and the new one).

blizzard tried giving an exclusive story to a class once, and never did it again. wonder why.

I’ve never played other games besides Guild Wars 1, which is why I has to ask.

From the gw perspective though, when there was new professions they did their story line and had the ability to do other if they bought those, which is what I’m familiar with.

wrong.

from a GW perspective, the early story is based on race (in GW1’s case, ascalonian, canthan, or elonian), and some races had exclusive professions (canthan could, on top of playing the core professions, play ritualist and assassin, for example).

if i made a canthan warrior, he’d have the same story as my canthan assassin. the story wasn’t bound to the profession, but to the birthplace of your character.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Astral Projections.7320:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Astral Projections.7320:

Genesis.8572:

Astral Projections.7320:

Then don’t quote me and say that I’m doing the opposite of what I actually said. Address your comment as a general post, not as a reply to me.

But you do want to treat the revenant as a special snowflake whose personal story differs from the other professions, correct?

When you have an expansion in other games, do the new professions which start then do the new story line or the old story line?

old. because the “new storyline” is just for the max level character (or previously max level, and now the new story branches between the old level cap and the new one).

blizzard tried giving an exclusive story to a class once, and never did it again. wonder why.

I’ve never played other games besides Guild Wars 1, which is why I has to ask.

From the gw perspective though, when there was new professions they did their story line and had the ability to do other if they bought those, which is what I’m familiar with.

wrong.

from a GW perspective, the early story is based on race (in GW1’s case, ascalonian, canthan, or elonian), and some races had exclusive professions (canthan could, on top of playing the core professions, play ritualist and assassin, for example).

if i made a canthan warrior, he’d have the same story as my canthan assassin. the story wasn’t bound to the profession, but to the birthplace of your character.

That’s what I meant, I guess I didn’t say it well. That new professions has their story line based on the new expansion, not an old one.

Edit: the history so far with ANet and how they set up expansions is that with new expansions the new professions come with a new story line with an option to do the old one. While the comparison is not one to one, it’s possible they will follow the same format where the Revenant has season 3 as it’s storyline (along with all the older professions) but also has the option to do the Zhaitan story.

As an additional question, how does anyone think they would have handed a new race, such as the Tengu, if they were in this expansion? Would the Tengu also have the Zhaitan story line where they go off and kill Zhaitan or would that be better done as an optional “memory” story and the Tengu story begin with season 3?

Astral Projections.7320:

When you have an expansion in other games, do the new professions which start then do the new story line or the old story line?

Usually the old storyline. WoW created a new storyline and starter zone for their death knight “hero class,” which started at level 55, though usually finished the zone around level 58. I don’t think that Blizzard was pleased with their result, which is why their second new class, the monk, was a regular level 1-max character that starts in a race’s given starter zone. A level one monk in WoW would then level through old Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Cataclysm content before reaching the, then “fresh,” Mists of Pandaria content.

Part of the problem with the Guild Wars 1 approach is that racial identity replaced “ethno-expansion” identity. The GW1 expansions introduced new stories and professions, but as an extension of a varied human ethnic identity. Assassins and ritualists were an extension of Cantha. Dervishes and paragons were an extension of Elona. That approach has died out in Guild Wars 2 where we now have racial storylines in lore and a race-exclusive personal story. I feel that the racial storyline is part of the reason why ArenaNet will not fast-track the new profession to this new content. ArenaNet uses the personal story to teach players, primarily new ones, what it means to be a member of the playable races in Tyria. How do krewes work? What drives a norn forward in life? What is the political situation in Divinity’s Reach? What does a wyld hunt mean for a sylvari? What does it mean to be part of a charr legion or warband? While we get glimpses of these questions outside of the personal story, the early personal story acts as a critical racial tutorial. Having the Revenant fast track to the Heart of Thrones content without that racial story places the emphasis on the profession over the race, which is unprecedented so far in how ArenaNet approaches Guild Wars 2.

Astral Projections.7320:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Astral Projections.7320:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Astral Projections.7320:

Genesis.8572:

Astral Projections.7320:

Then don’t quote me and say that I’m doing the opposite of what I actually said. Address your comment as a general post, not as a reply to me.

But you do want to treat the revenant as a special snowflake whose personal story differs from the other professions, correct?

When you have an expansion in other games, do the new professions which start then do the new story line or the old story line?

old. because the “new storyline” is just for the max level character (or previously max level, and now the new story branches between the old level cap and the new one).

blizzard tried giving an exclusive story to a class once, and never did it again. wonder why.

I’ve never played other games besides Guild Wars 1, which is why I has to ask.

From the gw perspective though, when there was new professions they did their story line and had the ability to do other if they bought those, which is what I’m familiar with.

wrong.

from a GW perspective, the early story is based on race (in GW1’s case, ascalonian, canthan, or elonian), and some races had exclusive professions (canthan could, on top of playing the core professions, play ritualist and assassin, for example).

if i made a canthan warrior, he’d have the same story as my canthan assassin. the story wasn’t bound to the profession, but to the birthplace of your character.

That’s what I meant, I guess I didn’t say it well. That new professions has their story line based on the new expansion, not an old one.

Edit: the history so far with ANet and how they set up expansions is that with new expansions the new professions come with a new story line with an option to do the old one. While the comparison is not one to one, it’s possible they will follow the same format where the Revenant has season 3 as it’s storyline (along with all the older professions) but also has the option to do the Zhaitan story.

As an additional question, how does anyone think they would have handed a new race, such as the Tengu, if they were in this expansion? Would the Tengu also have the Zhaitan story line where they go off and kill Zhaitan or would that be better done as an optional “memory” story and the Tengu story begin with season 3?

sigh

the only reason the new professions had a whole new story is because factions and nightfalls were standalone campaigns. they needed a way for players that only bought factions, like i did at first, to start a character in cantha.

the professions just happened to be tied to the continent of the expansion, but the professions themselves got absolutely ZERO special treatment.

HoT is not a standalone campaign. it’s an expansion. it adds stuff to the core game, rather than just being an entirely separate game. there is no reason to have a new starting area, or a new early story. if they ever did either of those, though, i can assure you with 100% certainty, it would not be because of the profession, but because of a new race.

revenants, and whatever new professions they come up with in the future, won’t ever have their own story, or even something as small as a cutscene to “justify” why they’re playing old campaigns, as if that needed explaining to begin with.

The thing is. When do you stop with the Zhaitan story line as a fixed and not optional story line, if not now?

Let me try a thought experiment.

Let’s say this expansion was about fighting the underwater dragon, “Bubbles”. In this expansion we get the Revenant and a new race, the Largos, who have underwater civilization. Would the new Largos chars leave their underwater home to go to Tyria and fight Zhaitan or would their story begin with season 3?

What about future expansions? Let’s say in another 2 years we have an expansion with a trip to Cantha. Does any new races or professions again do the Zhaitan story line? Even new ones starting in Tyria? Or do they start with Season X and optional ability to do Zhaitan?

What I’m saying is that even now there are problems with the new profession having the Zhaitan personal story and as the Living Story progresses it becomes harder to fit in. If they omit it now and make it an optional “memory” story line then they sidestep problems with the current expansion and any other expansions.

With an “memory” side story, chars can still do it and learn the lore of the game without causing lore bending problems.

Astral Projections.7320:

The thing is. When do you stop with the Zhaitan story line as a fixed and not optional story line, if not now?

Let me try a thought experiment.

Let’s say this expansion was about fighting the underwater dragon, “Bubbles”. In this expansion we get the Revenant and a new race, the Largos, who have underwater civilization. Would the new Largos chars leave their underwater home to go to Tyria and fight Zhaitan or would their story begin with season 3?

What about future expansions? Let’s say in another 2 years we have an expansion with a trip to Cantha. Does any new races or professions again do the Zhaitan story line? Even new ones starting in Tyria? Or do they start with Season X and optional ability to do Zhaitan?

What I’m saying is that even now there are problems with the new profession having the Zhaitan personal story and as the Living Story progresses it becomes harder to fit in. If they omit it now and make it an optional “memory” story line then they sidestep problems with the current expansion and any other expansions.

With an “memory” side story, chars can still do it and learn the lore of the game without causing lore bending problems.

the largos would probably have an early campaign step, not unlike all other races. after that, it would probably go to the zhaitan story, yes.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Astral Projections.7320:

The thing is. When do you stop with the Zhaitan story line as a fixed and not optional story line, if not now?

Let me try a thought experiment.

Let’s say this expansion was about fighting the underwater dragon, “Bubbles”. In this expansion we get the Revenant and a new race, the Largos, who have underwater civilization. Would the new Largos chars leave their underwater home to go to Tyria and fight Zhaitan or would their story begin with season 3?

What about future expansions? Let’s say in another 2 years we have an expansion with a trip to Cantha. Does any new races or professions again do the Zhaitan story line? Even new ones starting in Tyria? Or do they start with Season X and optional ability to do Zhaitan?

What I’m saying is that even now there are problems with the new profession having the Zhaitan personal story and as the Living Story progresses it becomes harder to fit in. If they omit it now and make it an optional “memory” story line then they sidestep problems with the current expansion and any other expansions.

With an “memory” side story, chars can still do it and learn the lore of the game without causing lore bending problems.

the largos would probably have an early campaign step, not unlike all other races. after that, it would probably go to the zhaitan story, yes.

Why? What is so necessary about the Zhaitan story that makes it required, no matter how badly it might bend the lore, and not as an optional “memory” story?

Astral Projections.7320:

Why? What is so necessary about the Zhaitan story that makes it required, no matter how badly it might bend the lore, and not as an optional “memory” story?

Zhaitan is not so much the issue. It’s how Guild Wars 2 operates that is at the heart of the matter. Unlike Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars 2 is an actual MMORPG with a shared world. The shared world is not a memory. It’s persistent.

Furthermore, if Heart of Thorns was a stand alone campaign separate from the pre-HoT Guild Wars Sitz im Leben, it would have to be new leveling zone and story content for everyone and not just the revenant. That’s why it appears that some are trying to turn the revenant into a profession with special snowflake treatment. The complaint is misplaced to be about the revenant when it’s really about how Heart of Thrones does leveling or co-exists with the old Tyria. Fast tracking the revenant to just Heart of Thrones content with prior content being optional gives revenant players special treatment over other players – particularly new players who buy the game – who may pick other professions.

Genesis.8572:

Astral Projections.7320:

Why? What is so necessary about the Zhaitan story that makes it required, no matter how badly it might bend the lore, and not as an optional “memory” story?

Zhaitan is not so much the issue. It’s how Guild Wars 2 operates that is at the heart of the matter. Unlike Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars 2 is an actual MMORPG with a shared world. The shared world is not a memory. It’s persistent.

Furthermore, if Heart of Thorns was a stand alone campaign separate from the pre-HoT Guild Wars Sitz im Leben, it would have to be new leveling zone and story content for everyone and not just the revenant. That’s why it appears that some are trying to turn the revenant into a profession with special snowflake treatment. The complaint is misplaced to be about the revenant when it’s really about how Heart of Thrones does leveling or co-exists with the old Tyria. Fast tracking the revenant to just Heart of Thrones content with prior content being optional gives revenant players special treatment over other players – particularly new players who buy the game – who may pick other professions.

I never said anything about fast tracking the Revenant. My proposal would have the Revenant leveling normally with an option to do the personal story as a side line quest.

What I suggest, to head off lore inconsistencies, instead of a message to start the personal story at level 10, the Revenant (and any new professions and races after this) would get a message from the “memory” NPC which says “I’ve heard about you and I have a story to tell you. Come and speak to me to hear it”. The Revenant/future races/professions then will go and speak to the NPC and the Zhaitan story will unlock, to be done with the understanding that they are doing events that are in the past and are based on the memories of the original commander.

/shrug
It’s what one finds more compelling. I find it better to do a small sidestep and avoid these future lore breaking problems. You find it better to keep the problems so that the story is identical no matter how many years pass and new lands, professions and races are added.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Dev’s already called that this isn’t happening on the (almost identical) post about possible Revenant starting zones some days ago…

Astral Projections.7320:

Genesis.8572:

Astral Projections.7320:

Why? What is so necessary about the Zhaitan story that makes it required, no matter how badly it might bend the lore, and not as an optional “memory” story?

Zhaitan is not so much the issue. It’s how Guild Wars 2 operates that is at the heart of the matter. Unlike Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars 2 is an actual MMORPG with a shared world. The shared world is not a memory. It’s persistent.

Furthermore, if Heart of Thorns was a stand alone campaign separate from the pre-HoT Guild Wars Sitz im Leben, it would have to be new leveling zone and story content for everyone and not just the revenant. That’s why it appears that some are trying to turn the revenant into a profession with special snowflake treatment. The complaint is misplaced to be about the revenant when it’s really about how Heart of Thrones does leveling or co-exists with the old Tyria. Fast tracking the revenant to just Heart of Thrones content with prior content being optional gives revenant players special treatment over other players – particularly new players who buy the game – who may pick other professions.

I never said anything about fast tracking the Revenant. My proposal would have the Revenant leveling normally with an option to do the personal story as a side line quest.

What I suggest, to head off lore inconsistencies, instead of a message to start the personal story at level 10, the Revenant (and any new professions and races after this) would get a message from the “memory” NPC which says “I’ve heard about you and I have a story to tell you. Come and speak to me to hear it”. The Revenant/future races/professions then will go and speak to the NPC and the Zhaitan story will unlock, to be done with the understanding that they are doing events that are in the past and are based on the memories of the original commander.

/shrug
It’s what one finds more compelling. I find it better to do a small sidestep and avoid these future lore breaking problems. You find it better to keep the problems so that the story is identical no matter how many years pass and new lands, professions and races are added.

We will have to agree to disagree.

No you will simply have to accept that your priorities do not match the priorities of Arenanet. This isn’t really a agree to disagree, since the developers have given a clear cut answer to the whole lore breaking thing, which is “just accept it.”

You seem to have more of an issue than the guys in the lore forum.

silvermember.8941:

Astral Projections.7320:

Genesis.8572:

Astral Projections.7320:

Why? What is so necessary about the Zhaitan story that makes it required, no matter how badly it might bend the lore, and not as an optional “memory” story?

Zhaitan is not so much the issue. It’s how Guild Wars 2 operates that is at the heart of the matter. Unlike Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars 2 is an actual MMORPG with a shared world. The shared world is not a memory. It’s persistent.

Furthermore, if Heart of Thorns was a stand alone campaign separate from the pre-HoT Guild Wars Sitz im Leben, it would have to be new leveling zone and story content for everyone and not just the revenant. That’s why it appears that some are trying to turn the revenant into a profession with special snowflake treatment. The complaint is misplaced to be about the revenant when it’s really about how Heart of Thrones does leveling or co-exists with the old Tyria. Fast tracking the revenant to just Heart of Thrones content with prior content being optional gives revenant players special treatment over other players – particularly new players who buy the game – who may pick other professions.

I never said anything about fast tracking the Revenant. My proposal would have the Revenant leveling normally with an option to do the personal story as a side line quest.

What I suggest, to head off lore inconsistencies, instead of a message to start the personal story at level 10, the Revenant (and any new professions and races after this) would get a message from the “memory” NPC which says “I’ve heard about you and I have a story to tell you. Come and speak to me to hear it”. The Revenant/future races/professions then will go and speak to the NPC and the Zhaitan story will unlock, to be done with the understanding that they are doing events that are in the past and are based on the memories of the original commander.

/shrug
It’s what one finds more compelling. I find it better to do a small sidestep and avoid these future lore breaking problems. You find it better to keep the problems so that the story is identical no matter how many years pass and new lands, professions and races are added.

We will have to agree to disagree.

No you will simply have to accept that your priorities do not match the priorities of Arenanet. This isn’t really a agree to disagree, since the developers have given a clear cut answer to the whole lore breaking thing, which is “just accept it.”

You seem to have more of an issue than the guys in the lore forum.

We will have to agree to disagree.

1: Anet has said since the beginning of Season 2 that the lore treats your character like you’ve played 100% through the vanilla personal story, even if you’ve never even done the first instance of it. I’d assume it will be the same for HoT. Basically, there are already contradictions. How do you and Trahearne create the Pact AFTER your fleet of pact ships crashed into the jungle? How did you get your luminescent armor from parts that weren’t in existence before the pact wages war on the Vinewrath? You don’t. That’s why A-net has very clearly stated that Season 2 treats your character as if you’ve slayed zhaitan. HoT will be exactly the same.

2: In terms of contradictions existing in Tyria, how would you explain being able to complete GW: EN before you finish a campaign, then go back and finish not only that campaign with the same character, but also the other two campaigns?

This is simply not something that’s going to make my lie awake at night in a frenzy of geeky time-stream justification.

It’s just not.