Guild Wars 2

First, linky link: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hidden-arcana-role-playing-the-revenant/

While this is all personally exciting for me (more lore is good for me), this does bring up a few questions.

Firstly the idea that legends ride shotgun whenever they are channneld and that mallyx can harm anyone that uses his power brings up the first glaring question. Is it possible for mallyx (or any legend) to actively control the revenant that calls upon them? is there that inherent risk? because it seems like a bad idea to run around with a demon that might actively try and usurp control from you if channeling them can allow them to harm you. Until now, i had thought that the nature of mallyx’s powers would be harmful with every use, in a similar fashion to how certain necromancer spells are too dark to not have consequences (the corruption line), but this new lore brings a different perspective and many questions.

Secondly, i hope that revenants having sudden access to jalis and ventari has in game consequences, like ogden stonehealer having a one on one with a sort-of-ish translator in the form of the revenant and subsequent changes in his character (perhaps there’s news of the war on the destroyers when he fell and that they were winning the war, or that jalis was the last man standing when death came to him and thus ogden is truly the last of his kind), the centaur clans in the zones revealed in the recently released zones and the entire sylvari race talking with a relay for ventari and the consequences of such communication as well (because their entire culture is based around this one figure for the sylvari). Are there any chances of that happening?

Plus, both the order of whispers and the durmand priory are going to have a LOT of information regarding the mists, the effectiveness of mist magic against dragon magic, maybe even tactics that jalis used against the destroyers that the vigil could also pick up, alongside missing decades of lore and a ton of information that can be written down almost first hand.

thirdly, is the revenants ability to see (and fight and not die) perfectly with a blindfold on going to be touched in lore in any way? (i’m assuming it’s possible, but what’s the likelihood?)

There just seem to be a million questions and consequences that might not actually occur. I’m excited for what this might mean lore wise but will all this simply happen without there actually being any impact?

I gotta say, optional profession specific personal stories, even if it’s a single walk and talk mission, would be great for some more information.

Ugh, I had something typed out but the forums wiped it. I’ll try and re-type it…

I like a lot of this lore info except for one thing:

How does Anet justify Revenants being able to kill Zhaitain if Rytlock is the “world’s first Revenant” and by the time he returns Zhaitan is already dead?

The only thing I could come up with is that Revenants are affected by some funky Mists time shenanigans that simulate the experience of killing Zhaitan in the past and, when we finish that, we are returned to the “normal” timeline where we are right now. I would like to see them make some sort of official statement about this, because it’s a bit difficult to see making sense at the moment…

MiniEquine.6014:

Ugh, I had something typed out but the forums wiped it. I’ll try and re-type it…

I like a lot of this lore info except for one thing:

How does Anet justify Revenants being able to kill Zhaitain if Rytlock is the “world’s first Revenant” and by the time he returns Zhaitan is already dead?

The only thing I could come up with is that Revenants are affected by some funky Mists time shenanigans that simulate the experience of killing Zhaitan in the past and, when we finish that, we are returned to the “normal” timeline where we are right now. I would like to see them make some sort of official statement about this, because it’s a bit difficult to see making sense at the moment…

The same way pandaren monks and blood elf death knights are able to kill C’thun in WoW.

Imagination

My biggest concern is playing through the personal story as my new Rev, going through that and the whole Zhaitan ordeal; all of which is before Revs are even a THING. It makes no sense in a story telling point of view, because Rytlock isn’t a Rev yet either. This is the biggest question I want them to address.

Now onto more personal RP things I’ve been doing with my Rev:
- It makes sense that in training it’s possible for Revs to be possessed by Legends, but when working correctly, it’s not like that. The Legend is INVITED into the Rev’s mind and as a guest they are only allowed to do so much.

- As for Revs seeing with their blindfold, I see it as being intune with the Mists that they have a sense of “Mist Sonar” or Mist Vision as I call it. They can perceive changes in the Mists around them (Remember Tyria is part of the Mists) so they can sense things around them in relationship to the Mists.

MiniEquine.6014:

Ugh, I had something typed out but the forums wiped it. I’ll try and re-type it…

I like a lot of this lore info except for one thing:

How does Anet justify Revenants being able to kill Zhaitain if Rytlock is the “world’s first Revenant” and by the time he returns Zhaitan is already dead?

The only thing I could come up with is that Revenants are affected by some funky Mists time shenanigans that simulate the experience of killing Zhaitan in the past and, when we finish that, we are returned to the “normal” timeline where we are right now. I would like to see them make some sort of official statement about this, because it’s a bit difficult to see making sense at the moment…

The Mist works in mysterious ways.

“A revenant’s signature blindfold isn’t mandatory, either, as revenants don’t become blind as a natural result of their profession. Most of them only wear a blindfold as a tool to help them commune with the legends, who are able to perceive the world through their own senses.”

I read this as saying you see through the Legend’s eyes. Maybe it’s easier to do that if you aren’t doubling up the input with your own vision, but not impossible, hence some Revs will ditch the blindfolds. I can see some RP potential there: an actually blind Rev, or a colorblind one, or a nearsighted one, using the Legend vision to enhance perception. Also different things will snag different people’s attention, so maybe while you channel Ventari you are more aware of the plants around you and when you have Malyx up you spot weaknesses and flaws … that’s a horrid example, I guess, but I’m just feeling my way into this for now.

MiniEquine.6014:

Ugh, I had something typed out but the forums wiped it. I’ll try and re-type it…

I like a lot of this lore info except for one thing:

How does Anet justify Revenants being able to kill Zhaitain if Rytlock is the “world’s first Revenant” and by the time he returns Zhaitan is already dead?

The only thing I could come up with is that Revenants are affected by some funky Mists time shenanigans that simulate the experience of killing Zhaitan in the past and, when we finish that, we are returned to the “normal” timeline where we are right now. I would like to see them make some sort of official statement about this, because it’s a bit difficult to see making sense at the moment…

The reason is that timelines in GW2 are not fluid. Maps are often frozen in time. We are therefor constantly traveling forward and backward in time. The best way to explain it is like this.

The official GW2 timeline is part of the lore. But besides that, there is a personal timeline that you can follow on your own. If you are playing a revenant, you are just starting your character. In that universe the personal timeline is different then the official time in such way that rytlocks return has happened before the destruction of Zhaithan. After that we are jumping back in time into the frozen state of e.g. the black citadel and the plains of ashford. Cause that is frozen in time, we encounter Rytlock the Warrior and not Rytlock the revenant.

This is simulat to when you travel to lions arch. Even though Scarlet came, destroyed the town and it is rebuild, you still get to defend the town from Zhaithan invading.

The story of how charr tribune Rytlock Brimstone became the first revenant hasn’t yet been told, but at the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns, he’ll have brought the knowledge of how to obtain that power to the world of Tyria, making it somewhat common knowledge. There’s no profession-specific story content planned for the expansion, but a brand-new revenant starting on their journey will not have had to visit the Mists or undergo any more of an advanced process to access revenant powers than they would for the other core professions. All that’s necessary to begin training as a revenant is knowledge of the profession, the faith and will to reach into the Mists, and an open mind

Really, I don’t get why they stick with the “Rytlock is the first revenant” thing. What will happen to charr personal story? Will rytlock appear as a revenant to all revenant charr? what will happen to dungeons story mode? Will they change rytlock to be a revenant in them to?

Lore wise sticking to this bad idea is just painly dumb. I really hope they come to their sense and imagine something better.

In that universe the personal timeline is different then the official time in such way that rytlocks return has happened before the destruction of Zhaithan.

Absolutely… not! Rytlock is gone after we show our prowess in our fight against zaithan, he wouldn’t accept to take the risk to go to the mist if we hadn’t already prove our worth. And saying he return before make him in 2 place at the same time which should be enough to blow the world in theory.

Just making him the first ta have the elite specialization should be plenty enough to avoid this nosense.

i’ve got a few gripes with revenants in RP too. There are going to be A lot of them, RPers as well as non-RPers. with so many people channeling the same few powerful legendary people/demons what have you, just how strong can the Revenants really be? It’s not like they all get their own personal demon to channel.

Lightsbane.9012:

i’ve got a few gripes with revenants in RP too. There are going to be A lot of them, RPers as well as non-RPers. with so many people channeling the same few powerful legendary people/demons what have you, just how strong can the Revenants really be? It’s not like they all get their own personal demon to channel.

I seem to recall that in lore there is just one of us. So there will only really be one Revenant running around (or well, two counting Rytlock).

lordkrall.7241:

Lightsbane.9012:

i’ve got a few gripes with revenants in RP too. There are going to be A lot of them, RPers as well as non-RPers. with so many people channeling the same few powerful legendary people/demons what have you, just how strong can the Revenants really be? It’s not like they all get their own personal demon to channel.

I seem to recall that in lore there is just one of us. So there will only really be one Revenant running around (or well, two counting Rytlock).

I don’t think that’s really how it works in an RP sense.
there’s ONE ‘commander’ of the pact forces, yet there are a ton of players running around.

cocowoushi.7150:

Now onto more personal RP things I’ve been doing with my Rev:
- It makes sense that in training it’s possible for Revs to be possessed by Legends, but when working correctly, it’s not like that. The Legend is INVITED into the Rev’s mind and as a guest they are only allowed to do so much.

- As for Revs seeing with their blindfold, I see it as being intune with the Mists that they have a sense of “Mist Sonar” or Mist Vision as I call it. They can perceive changes in the Mists around them (Remember Tyria is part of the Mists) so they can sense things around them in relationship to the Mists.

for your first point, i guess i get that. I like the flavour that the legends ride shotgun but at the same time i don’t really like it. It’s definitely interesting as a flavour thing but i’m not sure i’d enjoy it with revenants specifically. Not really sure how to sort of phrase that.

as for the second point, it would more accurately work within the mists and not in the world, though you could argue that being tied to the mists would allow people to see the world regardless, or as donari mentioned:

Donari.5237:

“A revenant’s signature blindfold isn’t mandatory, either, as revenants don’t become blind as a natural result of their profession. Most of them only wear a blindfold as a tool to help them commune with the legends, who are able to perceive the world through their own senses.”

I read this as saying you see through the Legend’s eyes. Maybe it’s easier to do that if you aren’t doubling up the input with your own vision, but not impossible, hence some Revs will ditch the blindfolds. I can see some RP potential there: an actually blind Rev, or a colorblind one, or a nearsighted one, using the Legend vision to enhance perception. Also different things will snag different people’s attention, so maybe while you channel Ventari you are more aware of the plants around you and when you have Malyx up you spot weaknesses and flaws … that’s a horrid example, I guess, but I’m just feeling my way into this for now.

which makes a bit more sense, but doesn’t explain how they’re able to fight while being blinded. I guess the mist sonar thing works though, it’s the best we’ve got for now.

Lightsbane.9012:

i’ve got a few gripes with revenants in RP too. There are going to be A lot of them, RPers as well as non-RPers. with so many people channeling the same few powerful legendary people/demons what have you, just how strong can the Revenants really be? It’s not like they all get their own personal demon to channel.

I think this answered my previous itching on why i didn’t think it worked with revenants. It’s because each legend is going to be tied to about a thousand player characters (or more). It honestly would have made more sense if each legend was an echo of the legends of the past. It leaves less ambiguity in the matter, fewer lore discrepencies (like the bajillion consequences of sylvari suddenly being able to ask essentially their creator the meaning of life etc.) and they don’t have to suddenly account for the huge influx of new lore that would double the size of the library in the durmand priory from the times the legends DO answer.

If the power of each legend had sort of bleeded into the mists, so that each indvidual could tap into it without needing to call upon the legends themselves, it would make so much more sense. That way you don’t have a single mallyx talking to half a thousand players at the same time in a half a thousand conversations. I guess there’s that mists time=/=tyria time stuff, but still, it just makes the lore more consistent if the legends themselves didn’t exist as entities that must be interacted with to gain their power.

I GUESS you could argue that because there’s a multiverse out there, that there’s a multiverse number of mallyx the unyieldings that followed the same fate out mallyx did, and each revenant channels and has a conversation with an nth iteration of the mallyx from our history, which could undo any lore disaster this might bring up, as half a dozen revenants channeling jalis would have half a dozen stories of the same event, and thus no one knows who’s channeling the ‘real’ jalis.

i mean, the devs probably have an answer and hey, we might even see it. i just hope this clears up in some way.

castlemanic.3198:

Donari.5237:

I read this as saying you see through the Legend’s eyes. Maybe it’s easier to do that if you aren’t doubling up the input with your own vision, but not impossible, hence some Revs will ditch the blindfolds. I can see some RP potential there: an actually blind Rev, or a colorblind one, or a nearsighted one, using the Legend vision to enhance perception. Also different things will snag different people’s attention, so maybe while you channel Ventari you are more aware of the plants around you and when you have Malyx up you spot weaknesses and flaws … that’s a horrid example, I guess, but I’m just feeling my way into this for now.

which makes a bit more sense, but doesn’t explain how they’re able to fight while being blinded. I guess the mist sonar thing works though, it’s the best we’ve got for now.

I wasn’t typing very clearly. I meant the Legend becomes sort of an overlay. It’s not a figure standing off to the side, it’s mingled with the Revenant, so the Rev switches over to its eyes which are pretty much in the same position as the Rev’s. (Don’t ask me how Jalis’ eyes are at, say, norn height … magic, right?).

The best excuse I can think up about our Characters being a Revy before the events of Rytlock introducing Revy into Tyria is either….

1) Our character relived the events of Arc 1 (Zhaitan Arc) of GW2 through the Mist.

2) Our character was once one of the other profession but became a Revy between the Time Gap of Arc 1 (Zhaitan Arc) and Arc 2 ( Mordremoth Arc).

3) The Main Storyline is set that if our character is a Revy, Player’s Character become the first Revenant in Tyria but if our character is not a Revenant then Rytlock becomes the first Revenant in Tyria.

Any Revy players or NPCs we see in the open world during the Zhaitan Arc is because our character is in the world during Post-Arc 2 (Mordremoth Arc) time frame due to the World of Tyria being always set at Post-Event time frame.

Number 3 In Edwins post makes the most sense to me

I kind of want to make an ex-Zephyrite now. One who became a Revenant, got a chance to talk to Glint directly, and then decided they weren’t actually all they were cracked up to be. Could do the same with Sylvari-Ventari.

Seeing a post from ANet on RP is pretty kitten ed laughable, but whatever…

And they’re going to talk to themselves if they’re standing around? Wow, glad we got THAT added in, it’ll make RP so much better, right? Then again, maybe after the 50th time you run into yet another Rev having a chat with invisible Glint while standing in the bar, you’ll learn to tune it out.

Donari.5237:

I wasn’t typing very clearly. I meant the Legend becomes sort of an overlay. It’s not a figure standing off to the side, it’s mingled with the Revenant, so the Rev switches over to its eyes which are pretty much in the same position as the Rev’s. (Don’t ask me how Jalis’ eyes are at, say, norn height … magic, right?).

I guess that’s all it really comes down to, magic . But now that you’ve clarified, that does make a lot more sense and is far more viable in my opinion.

Palador.2170:

Seeing a post from ANet on RP is pretty kitten ed laughable, but whatever…

>Clearly not into RP.
>Comes into an RP related Thread.

Lol ok.

I do agree the biggest problem here is that Rytlock was claimed to be, and appears to be canonly, the first Rev. If the other NPCs didn’t act so surprised or confounded by the fact that what he was doing was so new then it would be a lot easier to apply homespun backstory to Revs.

Maybe if they were surprised that he WAS a Rev now, instead of WOW NEW MAGIC I NEVER SEEN it would help a lot. Which is why I question Anet’s writing decisions since they obviously know the problems with will create but decide to go “lol whatever” anyways.

Regarding legends, admittedly I made my own headcanons for my Rev before this RP lore post, so I’m a bit more bias towards it. I’m not sure how much I like the idea of the Legends inflicting so heavily on the character, for my character anyways, I it is a fun opportunity for others.

I would think that the actual Legend resides in their realm of origin, be it the Hall of Heroes in the Rift, or Underworld dimensions, but the Rev is able to seek out the given Legend and allow some of its power (and consciousness) into them. The idea of the soul of Jalis or Ventari actually entering the mind of every single Rev at any time doesn’t appeal to me.

My Rev explained it to another character as a door (dubbed the “Braindoor” from there on out). The door doesn’t have a lock, but it can be closed or opened as the Rev pleases to invite or keep out spirits as they see fit. However, malicious spirits do wander the Mists and could try to take advantage of these people with unnatural abilities to accept spirits into them, leading them to be targets for possession. But with the training they endured, they should have the mental fortitude to keep the door closed and not broken in by passing spirits and demons.

cocowoushi.7150:

Palador.2170:

Seeing a post from ANet on RP is pretty kitten ed laughable, but whatever…

>Clearly not into RP.
>Comes into an RP related Thread.

Lol ok.

Actually, I’m quite into RP. It’s just that ANet’s choices often seem to hit like fingernails on a blackboard for RPers.

Ever try to RP with a mesmer that is using the skill that gives them a random buff every 10 seconds, with a chance to say something when it fires off? Well, it sounds like the Rev will be like that, but we can’t just unslot a skill to make them shut up while RPing.

And Rytlock trained us? I know that there’s not supposed to be a ton of them (just as there’s only one First Commander of the Pact), but he’s really going to just pick out some random charr/human/asura/norn/sylvari and train them personally? As far as that goes, why in any god’s name would he return and train a sylvari at all?

Megaservers.

Town clothes into tonics. Given that some of the town clothes already worked much like outfits (overwriting the other slots’ appearances when you equipped the chest), they could have made outfits and town clothes work on the same system. Or at least turned the town clothes into outfits.

And let’s not forget the ungodly chat/emote range in this game.

So, yes. I feel it’s laughable. Especially when it’s a post where they come in and tell us how the Rev will work, and it’s pretty RP-dysfunctional. I get the feeling that most RPers are going to just discard large chunks of what they’ve said and make stuff up for themselves. As usual.