Revenants, going all the way
I’m curious and hoping a dev might answer this question.
Why not go all the way with revenant’s energy resource? Why have cooldowns on weapon attacks at all? Thieves don’t. So it’s not like that’s impossible / terrible / unthinkable etc.
It’s fantastic that revenants have more control over their abilities in combat, rather than just being driven by cooldowns. Truly. But why not take it all the way?
Because the class resource system is a simulation to the Warrior’s build up system with hybrid of the Thief’s resource system which starts full and regens on its own.
Because the class resource system is a simulation to the Warrior’s build up system with hybrid of the Thief’s resource system which starts full and regens on its own.
In the devs own words, it’s going back to a more basic mana style system like in GW.
Even if it were as you described, that still wouldn’t be any reason to not go all the way with it.
Because the class resource system is a simulation to the Warrior’s build up system with hybrid of the Thief’s resource system which starts full and regens on its own.
In the devs own words, it’s going back to a more basic mana style system like in GW.
Even if it were as you described, that still wouldn’t be any reason to not go all the way with it.
In gw1 most skills also had cooldowns and they were rather short just like the revenants. So in some sense they go all the way with it.
In gw1 most skills also had cooldowns and they were rather short just like the revenants. So in some sense they go all the way with it.
You seem to have mistaken this for a thread about GW1 replication. It’s not. Otherwise you would have seen me begging for 4 of the races to be removed and the game converted into a lobby co-op instead of MMO. Plus all sorts of other reversions.
The issue in relation to revenants is it seems to be a half measure. They almost entirely get rid of cooldowns on one side of the hotbar (1 known ability with a cd and it’s 5 sec) but leave us with cds on the other side (plus energy cost). It’s odd.
Cool downs are one way to balance a class.
Frankly, I think there are a LOT of balancing levers built into Reveneant so that the Devs can quickly (and by quickly, I mean their version of it) balancing the Revenant out so that it don’t quickly overwhelm the other classes.
That and they are trying to bring back their old system with a new twist because… well, it’s their game… mostly… kinda.
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In gw1 most skills also had cooldowns and they were rather short just like the revenants. So in some sense they go all the way with it.
You seem to have mistaken this for a thread about GW1 replication. It’s not. Otherwise you would have seen me begging for 4 of the races to be removed and the game converted into a lobby co-op instead of MMO. Plus all sorts of other reversions.
The issue in relation to revenants is it seems to be a half measure. They almost entirely get rid of cooldowns on one side of the hotbar (1 known ability with a cd and it’s 5 sec) but leave us with cds on the other side (plus energy cost). It’s odd.
No i didnt mistake it about a gw1 replication thread. You used the gw1 as reference so i figured it would be ok to argue with the gw1 energy system.
But so that i understand you correctly.
You find it odd that the weapon skills have energy costs and cooldowns while the legend skills only have energy costs and no cooldowns (apart from the healing skills and the road skill)?
It is easier to balance the class with weapons having fixed cooldowns.
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As for the theif-comment, you DO KNOW that the Thief-utilities have cooldowns, yes? So the “Thiefs do it” argument is invalid. Both classes have 5 Skills with CD and 5 without.
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Without cd you be able be to spam hammer 5 to death with current energy cost. You want to remove cd’s on wep skills but in this case energy cost has to be raised by a lot to not make it op, rendering utilities being useless as you wont have energy to cast them. Think about it really. Also cd’s on wep skills right now are really low so i dont see a problem.
Look at the mace alone, add str runes and enjoy perma 19+ might stacks thanks to low cd’s on it abilities..
From what I’ve seen in videos, it’s literally impossible to run out of energy, even spamming skills or using the elite. Something thieves cannot say.
You find it odd that the weapon skills have energy costs and cooldowns while the legend skills only have energy costs and no cooldowns (apart from the healing skills and the road skill)?
Yes. Taking cooldowns almost entirely off utilities is a big departure from the GW2 norm (IMO a really good one). It’s a completely different style of play. Thieves aside, GW2’s combat is often a matter of playing cooldown-whack-a-mole. You don’t necessarily execute abilities because it makes sense to. You execute them because they’re off cooldown and wasted if you don’t.
There are a lot of players who prefer one or the other. By keeping cds on weapon abilities they’ve got a foot firmly in both camps and not in a good way. It’s not the-sky-is-falling territory but I can see a lot of players being disappointed by it.
It is easier to balance the class with weapons having fixed cooldowns.
Like I said in the OP, thieves have this already. It’s done in games like ESO. It can be done. Just increase the energy cost.
As for the theif-comment, you DO KNOW that the Thief-utilities have cooldowns, yes? So the “Thiefs do it” argument is invalid. Both classes have 5 Skills with CD and 5 without.
Reading comprehension failure on your part.
Why have cooldowns on weapon attacks at all? Thieves don’t. So it’s not like that’s impossible / terrible / unthinkable etc.
I specifically referred to weapon abilities. I’m perfectly aware thief utilities have cooldowns, though given the amount of utility in their weapon abilities, they can just signet up and kiss goodbye to cooldowns except on healing and elite.
Without cd you be able be to spam hammer 5 to death with current energy cost. You want to remove cd’s on wep skills but in this case energy cost has to be raised by a lot to not make it op, rendering utilities being useless as you wont have energy to cast them. Think about it really.
I did – that’s why I mentioned thieves. They have a good mix of damage and utility abilities on their weapons. Without this problem. It takes two things. Good ability design and good ability cost-benefit balance.
By good ability design I mean unique abilities which aren’t just meant to be spammed in a mindless rotation. They do different and specific things. Thief abilities are good that way and IMO so far the revenant weapon abilities look pretty good.
Energy cost is obvious. Bump up the energy cost of hammer 5 and there’s no problem. There’s no damage number listed for it in the wiki but let’s assume the damage is low relative to pure damage abilities. Spam an aoe stun a few times until you’re out of power and you’re only left with the free 1 attack.
That would generally (eg. solo pve or pvp) be completely ineffective. You would only ever do it in a group and only if the situation called for sustained aoe (max 5) crowd control.
FYI there are other forms of spam deterrent.
One already exists in GW2 – can-only-have-1-at-a-time eg. engineer turrets (1 of each type, not total obviously), necro marks, thief and ranger traps. With a 3 second duration and 3 second cooldown, revenant mace 2 (searing fissure) is effectively of this type. The only difference removing the cooldown would make is it would allow you to drop a new one somewhere else earlier (eg. if mobs move off the first one).
Soft cooldowns are another. ESO is almost completely cooldown free. From memory there’s just two shield abilities they couldn’t balance with energy cost alone so they have a 4 or 5 second soft cooldown during which you can recast it but at double the normal cost. Occasionally worth doing but very punishing on resources. Revenant hammer 4 (projectile blocking shield) could be a good candidate for something like that. Increase the energy cost from 10 to 15 and that makes the cost 30 on immediate recast which is exactly how much energy you’d regenerate in the 6 seconds the shield is active. Possible to spam but would leave you unable to do much else.