Guild Wars 2

Mirta.5029:

no, that is really bad design. It’s the same as only the undead hearing the voice of the Lich in WoW.

I guess we will all have to agree to disagree. I think its great design. Others do too. And yet others agree with you.

So, like much else, seems like it’s in the eye of the beholder.

latinkuro.7304:

I do NOT want to be forced to play a sylvari to hear this amazing actor’s work as mordremoth ! and NEITHER should anyone else !!!

This is bad design !

I think it is good design and it answers some questions, if sylvari as a player-character can be influenced by mordremoth. So at least they can hear him.

As a norn main I think this is awesome. More race-specific stuff please!

Mirta.5029:

that is really bad design.

No, it is not.

Mirta.5029:

It’s the same as only the undead hearing the voice of the Lich in WoW.

Bad comparison. The Lich King, otherwise known as Arthas, was originally an english speaking human who eventually became a Lich. It makes sense he is still able to communicate in the common tongue.

latinkuro.7304:

I do NOT want to be forced to play a sylvari to hear this amazing actor’s work as mordremoth ! and NEITHER should anyone else !!!

Then I guess It’s a good thing no one forces you to do anything.

As a Ranger, AND A SYLVARI…. I approve the lore driven way. If you want to hear our dear Nolan North, play a sylvari.

Come and be one with the grove third-born! :p

I think it’s a fantastic idea because it makes sense.

Do you really think the plant dragon that has 0 control over any other should be called to it to be it’s minion? It’s a great idea what they are doing. Luckily my revenant will be a sylvari and I’ll get to experience it. In the future in sure each dragon will be connected with the other races as well. I give anet an A+ for it.

This is actually great that gameplay features sacrifised for lore. Lore is very important thing, that makes game intresting.
I beleive, in the future we will see many another things like that.

Considering I had already decided to play a sylvari Revenant since the sylvari race is the only one I had not played the personal story for yet anyway, I must say that I think this is truly awesome

However considering the fact that my main is an asura Mesmer, I still think it’s awesome.

First of all my friend, study design, game design, or narative design before yelling “This is bad design!!”.

Only because you heard this expression somwhere, don’t means you have what it takes to evaluate something as bad design or not.

As I see (In my 9 years of carreer as game designer), this is a a interesting narrative aspect, that brings much more in-depth to the world game lore in game itself, and not outside of it (Wiki/books/etcetera).

Another point to note, is that this is indeedly the only way to make it works. maybe we even hear him in the end of the story when we face mordremoth itself, but if the lore is fair enoguh in game, we as other races should not understand the dragon words, by the simply fact that its a non-translated language, so should not ever be understandable by any other race.

What you are asking, is basically the same as ask that the walls and graes in tyria written in new krytan to be rewritten in english for example. This game has a big way to immerse us in tyria world and lore, and I assure you my friend : This is good design.

Equal does not mean fair
Fair does not mean equal

Is this equal for all races? No.
Is this fair to the story and the player base? Yes.

Personally I think it is great storytelling when telling a story about the dragon who created the race. As others have mentioned, I’m sure they will do something similar (but not the same) with other races with future expansions. You have choices and just as much opportunity as the rest of people. Play it, watch it, read about it, etc. as you see fit, but please do not presume it is bad design because you don’t like it.

MauricioCezar.2673:

First of all my friend, study design, game design, or narative design before yelling “This is bad design!!”.

The people yelling ‘Bad design!!’ are just salty because they don’t have a Sylvari

MauricioCezar.2673:

First of all my friend, study design, game design, or narative design before yelling “This is bad design!!”.

Only because you heard this expression somwhere, don’t means you have what it takes to evaluate something as bad design or not.

As I see (In my 9 years of carreer as game designer), this is a a interesting narrative aspect, that brings much more in-depth to the world game lore in game itself, and not outside of it (Wiki/books/etcetera).

Another point to note, is that this is indeedly the only way to make it works. maybe we even hear him in the end of the story when we face mordremoth itself, but if the lore is fair enoguh in game, we as other races should not understand the dragon words, by the simply fact that its a non-translated language, so should not ever be understandable by any other race.

What you are asking, is basically the same as ask that the walls and graes in tyria written in new krytan to be rewritten in english for example. This game has a big way to immerse us in tyria world and lore, and I assure you my friend : This is good design.

I am finishing game design this year and it is most definitely bad design in my eyes. You’re making select players lose on the narrative for not leveling a class that’s supposed to be for cosmetic purposes only. Effectively you’re excluding 4/5ths of your audience from the narrative that you designed.

With just how much of season 2 of the LS was sylvari centric and with sylvari getting exclusive narrative lines now I am just sure that Anet favour sylvari over anything else.

Also you saying that people can’t criticize design if they don’t have a degree is the same as saying “you can’t criticize cooking if you’re not the cook!”. Your customers are always free to critique you.

Mirta.5029:

not leveling a class that’s supposed to be for cosmetic purposes only.

And that’s where you’re wrong. Different races aren’t just for different looks, they are there for different experiences. Otherwise there wouldn’t be racial skills and race specific story. If you never play a norn, you will never get to play the personal story that comes with it either. Same goes for this.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Mirta.5029:

not leveling a class that’s supposed to be for cosmetic purposes only.

And that’s where you’re wrong. Different races aren’t just for different looks, they are there for different experiences. Otherwise there wouldn’t be racial skills and race specific story. If you never play a norn, you will never get to play the personal story that comes with it either. Same goes for this.

this isn’t race specific story. This is “lose out if you’re specifically not a sylvari”. Because no other races get anything special.

Mirta.5029:

I am finishing game design this year and it is most definitely bad design in my eyes. You’re making select players lose on the narrative for not leveling a class that’s supposed to be for cosmetic purposes only. Effectively you’re excluding 4/5ths of your audience from the narrative that you designed.

With just how much of season 2 of the LS was sylvari centric and with sylvari getting exclusive narrative lines now I am just sure that Anet favour sylvari over anything else.

Also you saying that people can’t criticize design if they don’t have a degree is the same as saying “you can’t criticize cooking if you’re not the cook!”. Your customers are always free to critique you.

Crtiticize is a thing. Evaluate, or define it as a fact is a completely different thing.

I find it completely aceptable that you don’t like it being this way, and feel free to say it to anet. But as define it as bad design jsut because you dislike it, is completely wrong, even more when it is not fit to be considered bad design.

Gw2 is pretty explicit about “Personal Story” since the very start, you can check it out by each character initial story steps, or living story personal specific dialogues that pop’up depending on wich race, profession, or order you represent. That’s exactly what makes your story in game unique and “Personal”, and the game is advertised and sold as such.

Now taking the actual example, nobody is losing any narrative by not having acess to “Mordremoth call”, that is the only thing we have seen so far (If Anet is taking the course to say importante narrative steps whithin this mechanic, we have not yet seen, so its not even possible to criticize it), so your argument that 80% of their audience (Playerbase is exactly 20% of each race? hmm, interesting) are being “Excluded” is at minimun laugheable, and I can’t even take it serious, even more after this particular sentence of yours:

" I am just sure that Anet favour sylvari over anything else".

Mirta.5029:

this isn’t race specific story.

No, this is a race specific fraction of a story (and maybe not even that, it all depends on exactly what Mordremoth talks about). Which is a lot less story significant than 3 full blown chapters of personal story that are unique to each race, yet that’s not a problem for some reason.

Mirta.5029:

This is “lose out if you’re specifically not a sylvari”.

Just like not being able to play the 3 personal story chapters unique to Sylvari is also ‘losing out’ if you don’t have a Sylvari character. Yet that’s perfectly fine?

Mirta.5029:

Because no other races get anything special.

The other races get everything the expansion has to offer, except this tiny fraction, Mordremoths voice. Big deal. And we don’t even know if he will say anything significant, for all we know he just yells “I will destroy you all” and stuff like that during the boss battle.

Mirta.5029:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Mirta.5029:

not leveling a class that’s supposed to be for cosmetic purposes only.

And that’s where you’re wrong. Different races aren’t just for different looks, they are there for different experiences. Otherwise there wouldn’t be racial skills and race specific story. If you never play a norn, you will never get to play the personal story that comes with it either. Same goes for this.

this isn’t race specific story. This is “lose out if you’re specifically not a sylvari”. Because no other races get anything special.

This is flavor, it’s what gives the game depth and replayability. If it were not in the game, it would be a huge missed opportunity. If it were shoehorned in, the lore would not be taken seriously and the quality and charm would likely not be there.

Sylvari are a special race new to the series with an expansion built on lore that heavily relates to them, if in this day and age we have the means to make this as immersive an experience as possible then we should.

MauricioCezar.2673:

Crtiticize is a thing. Evaluate, or define it as a fact is a completely different thing.

I find it completely aceptable that you don’t like it being this way, and feel free to say it to anet. But as define it as bad design jsut because you dislike it, is completely wrong, even more when it is not fit to be considered bad design.

Gw2 is pretty explicit about “Personal Story” since the very start, you can check it out by each character initial story steps, or living story personal specific dialogues that pop’up depending on wich race, profession, or order you represent. That’s exactly what makes your story in game unique and “Personal”, and the game is advertised and sold as such.

Now taking the actual example, nobody is losing any narrative by not having acess to “Mordremoth call”, that is the only thing we have seen so far (If Anet is taking the course to say importante narrative steps whithin this mechanic, we have not yet seen, so its not even possible to criticize it), so your argument that 80% of their audience (Playerbase is exactly 20% of each race? hmm, interesting) are being “Excluded” is at minimun laugheable, and I can’t even take it serious, even more after this particular sentence of yours:

" I am just sure that Anet favour sylvari over anything else".

how many races are there? 5. So we’re assuming that everyone mains a different race, one out of five races is getting exclusive treatment. Meaning 20% of the audience is being favoured.

design, like art, is subjective. It’s not a science. If you went to university for game design you were told that.

Are impassable doors a bad design, or a technical limitation? If we removed all not posssible to enter doors would it make the game better?

Exclusivity in my eyes is a bad thing. Especially in a casual game.

Again, different experiences for different races are a good thing. And if you absolutely must have these few pieces of dialogue, then roll a Sylvari.

Unless I am missing something, this was the case already (at least in BW2). My sylvari got readable text and voiceover whereas my human did not.

Hey, they warned us well in advance to have an expansion-ready sylvari before HoT launches.

As I said Mirta, you are free to say if it fits your taste or not, if you find it good or not, and mainly, expose your critique to anet. Feedback is always welcome.

Just don’t put is as fact, even more when it is not.

“design, like art, is subjective. It’s not a science. If you went to university for game design you were told that.”

Make a analisis of your own statments and see if it fits your own sentence.

Good Design is not 100% subjective. But it depents on what you are aiming to archieve.

If they plan to use Mordremoths Voice to introduce important parts of the Story to the Players – this might be bad design. But that is obvously not the Case.
Its more likely supposed to add some Flavor, to emphasize the influence the Dragon has on Silvary, etc.
It will feel more special, threatening and immersive if only Silvary can hear him.

TamTiTam.9574:

Good Design is not 100% subjective. But it depents on what you are aiming to archieve.

If they plan to use Mordremoths Voice to introduce important parts of the Story to the Players – this might be bad design. But that is obvously not the Case.
Its more likely supposed to add some Flavor, to emphasize the influence the Dragon has on Silvary, etc.
It will feel more special, threatening and immersive if only Silvary can hear him.

I am glad someone understand the difference between bad or good design, against opinions and thoughts. And I completely agree with your statement sir.

It is a bit quick to judge that the other races may not get their own exclusive events?

From the beta we are only given 1 HoT Story mission to demonstrate the HoT Storyline.

However, there is still more HoT storyline missions and a lot of NPC dialogue in Season 2 hints that there may be Humans, Charr, Asura, and Norn exclusive race events as well in HoT Storyline by showing their distrust allying them selves with the other races such as the Seraph NPCs in Silverwastes mentioning they have trust issues working with Charrs from the Legion and how Legion Charrs say they don’t like the idea of working with the Pact due to it being commanded by a “Sylvari”.

Heck we may even get exlcusive “Race” Missions in HoT story such as Human player must find the Seraph that crashed with the Pact fleet and a Charr player would get a different mission to find the Charr Legion members that was with the Pact Fleet with each leading to different part of the Map and different events.

Mirta.5029:

…So we’re assuming that everyone mains a different race, one out of five races is getting exclusive treatment. Meaning 20% of the audience is being favoured. …

Exclusivity in my eyes is a bad thing. …

This, I feel, is the root of your problem. First, every paid player (thus, every HoT player) gets enough character slots to play at least one of each race. So, everyone is perfectly capable of creating a sylvari. Anet is not “excluding” 80% of their audience. The ones being “excluded” are those who choose not to play sylvari. Keyword there, CHOOSE.

Second, exclusivity is not inherently bad. I understand that you don’t like it. However, there are plenty of players who do. Saying “I don’t like it, so it’s bad for everyone and needs to stop” isn’t a great way to make a point; there are those on both sides of the issue who won’t be convinced.

GW2 is open to a variety of playstyles, builds, races, classes, appearances, personal stories, order stories, and further choices in gameplay options! Personally, I can’t imagine playing the same character all the time any more than I could face eating plain oatmeal for breakfast every day of the year. Embrace difference!

Mirta.5029:

MauricioCezar.2673:

Crtiticize is a thing. Evaluate, or define it as a fact is a completely different thing.

I find it completely aceptable that you don’t like it being this way, and feel free to say it to anet. But as define it as bad design jsut because you dislike it, is completely wrong, even more when it is not fit to be considered bad design.

Gw2 is pretty explicit about “Personal Story” since the very start, you can check it out by each character initial story steps, or living story personal specific dialogues that pop’up depending on wich race, profession, or order you represent. That’s exactly what makes your story in game unique and “Personal”, and the game is advertised and sold as such.

Now taking the actual example, nobody is losing any narrative by not having acess to “Mordremoth call”, that is the only thing we have seen so far (If Anet is taking the course to say importante narrative steps whithin this mechanic, we have not yet seen, so its not even possible to criticize it), so your argument that 80% of their audience (Playerbase is exactly 20% of each race? hmm, interesting) are being “Excluded” is at minimun laugheable, and I can’t even take it serious, even more after this particular sentence of yours:

" I am just sure that Anet favour sylvari over anything else".

how many races are there? 5. So we’re assuming that everyone mains a different race, one out of five races is getting exclusive treatment. Meaning 20% of the audience is being favoured.

design, like art, is subjective. It’s not a science. If you went to university for game design you were told that.

Are impassable doors a bad design, or a technical limitation? If we removed all not posssible to enter doors would it make the game better?

Exclusivity in my eyes is a bad thing. Especially in a casual game.

20% of the audience is not being favored. 100% of the audience has the option to experience the voice work.

Kumion.7580:

Mirta.5029:

…So we’re assuming that everyone mains a different race, one out of five races is getting exclusive treatment. Meaning 20% of the audience is being favoured. …

Exclusivity in my eyes is a bad thing. …

This, I feel, is the root of your problem. First, every paid player (thus, every HoT player) gets enough character slots to play at least one of each race. So, everyone is perfectly capable of creating a sylvari. Anet is not “excluding” 80% of their audience. The ones being “excluded” are those who choose not to play sylvari. Keyword there, CHOOSE.

Second, exclusivity is not inherently bad. I understand that you don’t like it. However, there are plenty of players who do. Saying “I don’t like it, so it’s bad for everyone and needs to stop” isn’t a great way to make a point; there are those on both sides of the issue who won’t be convinced.

GW2 is open to a variety of playstyles, builds, races, classes, appearances, personal stories, order stories, and further choices in gameplay options! Personally, I can’t imagine playing the same character all the time any more than I could face eating plain oatmeal for breakfast every day of the year. Embrace difference!

if I have to race switch in order to live trough the game’s full story and fully understand it then yes, it’s bad design. Your player should be treated equal no matter he is an altoholic or not.

As a Charr player I don’t mind this in the least, this is rather interesting, infact I love it, it’s part of their lore. Is everyone going to start complaining because the Charr and the Humans can’t go through the Sylvari dream sequence as well?

Mirta.5029:

Kumion.7580:

Mirta.5029:

…So we’re assuming that everyone mains a different race, one out of five races is getting exclusive treatment. Meaning 20% of the audience is being favoured. …

Exclusivity in my eyes is a bad thing. …

This, I feel, is the root of your problem. First, every paid player (thus, every HoT player) gets enough character slots to play at least one of each race. So, everyone is perfectly capable of creating a sylvari. Anet is not “excluding” 80% of their audience. The ones being “excluded” are those who choose not to play sylvari. Keyword there, CHOOSE.

Second, exclusivity is not inherently bad. I understand that you don’t like it. However, there are plenty of players who do. Saying “I don’t like it, so it’s bad for everyone and needs to stop” isn’t a great way to make a point; there are those on both sides of the issue who won’t be convinced.

GW2 is open to a variety of playstyles, builds, races, classes, appearances, personal stories, order stories, and further choices in gameplay options! Personally, I can’t imagine playing the same character all the time any more than I could face eating plain oatmeal for breakfast every day of the year. Embrace difference!

if I have to race switch in order to live trough the game’s full story and fully understand it then yes, it’s bad design. Your player should be treated equal no matter he is an altoholic or not.

So, should all of the order and race story elements have been shoehorned into my human Whispers character play through?

This is FANTASTIC design, and during the BWE when I played through the story demo on a sylvari after running it once on a non-sylvari, I literally had chills going down my spine listening to the Mordremoth lines. It was just incredible. I fully support ANet having this difference built into the story, and just the potential for development and depth that can spin off from this just blows my mind. I respect OP’s opinion on this but have to disagree!

*edit: I have to add that I main an Asura, and do not have any level 80 Sylvaris currently. So I’ll have to make one and level it in order to fully experience this as well. This does not change my opinion.

latinkuro.7304:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Roll a sylvari, or better yet just wait a week and people will post the vids on youtube. I see nothing wrong with a race being unique, and seeing as it fits the dragon/plot in this case I say good job ANet.

Are you a [censored] I wanna play the story myself NOT watch some lame video about it !!!

I do NOT want to be forced to play a sylvari to hear this amazing actor’s work as mordremoth ! and NEITHER should anyone else !!!

This is bad design !

what are you saying

Ashen.2907:

So, should all of the order and race story elements have been shoehorned into my human Whispers character play through?

nah, I just believe that if you’re giving one race an exclusive quirk, others should get their own. Else only one race has a unique experience making it only worth it to play as that race and that race alone, as it’s extra lines and not changed story in general. Meaning currently sylvari is the only race with the full personal story experience. Which is wrong.

Mirta.5029:

Ashen.2907:

So, should all of the order and race story elements have been shoehorned into my human Whispers character play through?

nah, I just believe that if you’re giving one race an exclusive quirk, others should get their own. Else only one race has a unique experience making it only worth it to play as that race and that race alone, as it’s extra lines and not changed story in general. Meaning currently sylvari is the only race with the full personal story experience. Which is wrong.

- most of the story revolves around humans and somewhat charr
- the asura are small
- norn belong to the dragon
- quaggans are wet

Mirta.5029:

Ashen.2907:

So, should all of the order and race story elements have been shoehorned into my human Whispers character play through?

nah, I just believe that if you’re giving one race an exclusive quirk, others should get their own. Else only one race has a unique experience making it only worth it to play as that race and that race alone, as it’s extra lines and not changed story in general. Meaning currently sylvari is the only race with the full personal story experience. Which is wrong.

Every post you do contradicts yourself. Weren’t you saying this a few posts ago:

if I have to race switch in order to live trough the game’s full story and fully understand it then yes, it’s bad design. Your player should be treated equal no matter he is an altoholic or not.

So how you now say that it should be fair to every race have its own story specific content (What would make you obligated to roll all 5 races in order to live trough the game’s full story and fully understand it) ?

MauricioCezar.2673:

Mirta.5029:

Ashen.2907:

So, should all of the order and race story elements have been shoehorned into my human Whispers character play through?

nah, I just believe that if you’re giving one race an exclusive quirk, others should get their own. Else only one race has a unique experience making it only worth it to play as that race and that race alone, as it’s extra lines and not changed story in general. Meaning currently sylvari is the only race with the full personal story experience. Which is wrong.

Every post you do contradicts yourself. Weren’t you saying this a few posts ago:

if I have to race switch in order to live trough the game’s full story and fully understand it then yes, it’s bad design. Your player should be treated equal no matter he is an altoholic or not.

So how you now say that it should be fair to every race have its own story specific content (What would make you obligated to roll all 5 races in order to live trough the game’s full story and fully understand it) ?

if everyone is exclusive then nobody is exclusive. Currently every race as a predefined amount of missions that are different from each other. Meaning it’s satisfying no matter which one you roll.
However if the story is the same for everyone, except for one race and the difference is more lines rather than a different story, then the only way to experience the full story line is to play that specific race.

Mirta.5029:

MauricioCezar.2673:

Mirta.5029:

Ashen.2907:

So, should all of the order and race story elements have been shoehorned into my human Whispers character play through?

nah, I just believe that if you’re giving one race an exclusive quirk, others should get their own. Else only one race has a unique experience making it only worth it to play as that race and that race alone, as it’s extra lines and not changed story in general. Meaning currently sylvari is the only race with the full personal story experience. Which is wrong.

Every post you do contradicts yourself. Weren’t you saying this a few posts ago:

if I have to race switch in order to live trough the game’s full story and fully understand it then yes, it’s bad design. Your player should be treated equal no matter he is an altoholic or not.

So how you now say that it should be fair to every race have its own story specific content (What would make you obligated to roll all 5 races in order to live trough the game’s full story and fully understand it) ?

if everyone is exclusive then nobody is exclusive. Currently every race as a predefined amount of missions that are different from each other. Meaning it’s satisfying no matter which one you roll.
However if the story is the same for everyone, except for one race and the difference is more lines rather than a different story, then the only way to experience the full story line is to play that specific race.

As far as we know, the story will actually be different for Sylvari players. This means that it will benefit us to play both Sylvari and non-Sylvari throught he same instances, adding replayability.

Mirta.5029:

I am finishing game design this year and it is most definitely bad design in my eyes. You’re making select players lose on the narrative for not leveling a class that’s supposed to be for cosmetic purposes only. Effectively you’re excluding 4/5ths of your audience from the narrative that you designed.

With just how much of season 2 of the LS was sylvari centric and with sylvari getting exclusive narrative lines now I am just sure that Anet favour sylvari over anything else.

Bad game design is giving everything to everyone because otherwise it force them to play. Playing is the main point of a game. That idea is maybe good for throwaway mobile games, which is what “game design” classes are about anyway, but it’s horrible for actual games. Especially for RPG.

That said, I agree the story have been way too centered on sylvari. It still doesn’t change the fact that them being the only one able to understand what Mordremoth says is good RPG design.

Star up for the Incridibles reference.

Still, I really don’t see a problem simply because it fits into narrative. It was exaclty the same when only engineers had further acess to scarlet machine operational message on the breacher, ot the exclusive race specific dialogues between PC and iconics (I’ll never forget zojja calling me a “Special cog in her life” ) or even the race specific missions that actually have impact on the main story, rather than only the race lore (Asura missions have acess to the theory about dragon eating magic before anyone else does).

So for real, after all what has been discussed, where is the problem? Where is tha so said “Bad design”? The game is set and sold as that. No one is having heavy loss or impact due to small things such as those.

Rhomulos.2089:

Mirta.5029:

MauricioCezar.2673:

Mirta.5029:

Ashen.2907:

So, should all of the order and race story elements have been shoehorned into my human Whispers character play through?

nah, I just believe that if you’re giving one race an exclusive quirk, others should get their own. Else only one race has a unique experience making it only worth it to play as that race and that race alone, as it’s extra lines and not changed story in general. Meaning currently sylvari is the only race with the full personal story experience. Which is wrong.

Every post you do contradicts yourself. Weren’t you saying this a few posts ago:

if I have to race switch in order to live trough the game’s full story and fully understand it then yes, it’s bad design. Your player should be treated equal no matter he is an altoholic or not.

So how you now say that it should be fair to every race have its own story specific content (What would make you obligated to roll all 5 races in order to live trough the game’s full story and fully understand it) ?

if everyone is exclusive then nobody is exclusive. Currently every race as a predefined amount of missions that are different from each other. Meaning it’s satisfying no matter which one you roll.
However if the story is the same for everyone, except for one race and the difference is more lines rather than a different story, then the only way to experience the full story line is to play that specific race.

As far as we know, the story will actually be different for Sylvari players. This means that it will benefit us to play both Sylvari and non-Sylvari throught he same instances, adding replayability.

I do hope that the story for other 4 races won’t be identical though. I mean at the last Season 2 cutscene we got to see charr going witchhunting for example. My point is that if sylvari-non sylvari stories are different, then so should be asura -norn – human – sylvari and charr.

Mirta.5029:

Meaning currently sylvari is the only race with the full personal story experience. Which is wrong.

No it is not. Sylvari are DRAGON MINIONS! Their race probably plays a pivotal in this story, the other races don’t. They SHOULD get some unique experiences and content that other races don’t get. It makes sense! And if you want to experience it too, then nothing is stopping you from rolling a Sylvari.

And you keep acting like other races will miss out on a huge chunk of story. While this whole voice thing is probably just some extra flavour and effects.

Mirta.5029:

Ashen.2907:

So, should all of the order and race story elements have been shoehorned into my human Whispers character play through?

nah, I just believe that if you’re giving one race an exclusive quirk, others should get their own. Else only one race has a unique experience making it only worth it to play as that race and that race alone, as it’s extra lines and not changed story in general. Meaning currently sylvari is the only race with the full personal story experience. Which is wrong.

Non Sylvari have something not available to Sylvari…to fight the forces of Mordremoth without having him in their head. A different experience available only to non Sylvari.

I love this! Looking forward to both the noises and voice depending on my characters. Excellent design!

Who knows, maybe Jormag will do something similair.
Jormag influences your mind rather than the traditional corrupting you see with other dragons. However, he only does this with males. Women seem to be immune to this.
So whenever we get an expansion that focusses on Jormag, he might talk to male players only (except Sylvari of course). I only play female characters so I will miss out, but I still think it would be a cool addition.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Mirta.5029:

Meaning currently sylvari is the only race with the full personal story experience. Which is wrong.

No it is not. Sylvari are DRAGON MINIONS! Their race probably plays a pivotal in this story, the other races don’t. They SHOULD get some unique experiences and content that other races don’t get. It makes sense! And if you want to experience it too, then nothing is stopping you from rolling a Sylvari.

And you keep acting like other races will miss out on a huge chunk of story. While this whole voice thing is probably just some extra flavour and effects.

charr are going after a witch hunt
asura are the inventors that had a lot of problems with teleportation lines and such
norn are very primal in nature
humans worship gods

and you’re saying that those races wouldn’t have different coping mechanisms with war? That they don’t deserve a unique storyline when it comes to fighting the dragon too?

Mirta.5029:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Mirta.5029:

Meaning currently sylvari is the only race with the full personal story experience. Which is wrong.

No it is not. Sylvari are DRAGON MINIONS! Their race probably plays a pivotal in this story, the other races don’t. They SHOULD get some unique experiences and content that other races don’t get. It makes sense! And if you want to experience it too, then nothing is stopping you from rolling a Sylvari.

And you keep acting like other races will miss out on a huge chunk of story. While this whole voice thing is probably just some extra flavour and effects.

charr are going after a witch hunt
asura are the inventors that had a lot of problems with teleportation lines and such
norn are very primal in nature
humans worship gods

and you’re saying that those races wouldn’t have different coping mechanisms with war? That they don’t deserve a unique storyline when it comes to fighting the dragon too?

They do have something different: antagonism, fear and probably a conflict towards the Sylvari race. If done right, Anet could turn that into a really interesting plot for non-sylvari. As already shown in the initial HoT teaser, some members of other races already turn against the Sylvari, which is exactly why the Pale Tree wanted to keep their origins a secret at all costs.

“Stop treating us like monsters! We’re not the enemy!” -Canach

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

They do have something different: antagonism, fear and probably a conflict towards the Sylvari race. If done right, Anet could turn that into a really interesting plot. As already shown in the initial HoT teaser, some members of other races already turn against the Sylvari, which is exactly why the Pale Tree wanted to keep their origins a secret at all costs.

“Stop treating us like monsters! We’re not the enemy!” -Canach

that’s exactly my point. Some races. Not all. At the moment it seems we have a sylvari vs non sylvari plot. Which isn’t right.

^ What is the point of having different races if they should all be identical anyway?

First, this is not new information… this has been evident since the first HoT BWE with Sylvari accessible.

Second this is not bad design, it is design that on the contrary incentivizes people to create more than one character (if they don’t have sylvari yet) or at the very least play through the story twice (as others have pointed out, mordys voice is not the only difference). So from ArenaNet’s point of view this is an excellent design choice. It adds an additional layer of replayability (the other being the branches within individual instances) and thus on average will result in people spending more time with HoT content and in the game.

Bottom line this is good design and the only associated negative to it is player perception. That said, this can be called bad design (arguably) if they then won’t in future releases, where relevant, add similar extra story telling for other races. Notice how I did not call it content, because it is not content in terms of gameplay, merely narrative context. If they cripple the story telling for other races as a result, like they did with the original personal story due to different but similar choices done there, then and only then are they due for critique.

You can tell the same story from two different perspectives, plenty of books and tv shows have done this to varying degree of success. Why would it suddenly be bad when applied to games?

This is amazing lore work… This is exactly the type of thing MMO companies need to add to their world and lore to make characters feel less flat. Amazing decision. And I hate playing Sylvari! I do have one though so it might make me play my guardian a bit, but I think it’s really cool.

They just need to do MORE of this type of thing with all races, then no one has to feel left out. Non-progression/combat race uniqueness is exactly how races should be handled.

I’m sure when we go after Jormag there will be special narrative benefits for norn characters as well. Maybe they’ll hear Jormag’s voice trying to tempt them to become Sons of Svanir or have special dialogue options with the sons.

Likewise asura will probably have story important bits with Primordus if we end up visiting the old asuran ruins.

Just because Sylvari are being treated to a unique perspective on this story doesn’t mean future stories won’t benefit other races.