Guild Wars 2

Now, let’s get the obvious part out of the way – gyrobots are basically Spirit Weapons but much more useful.

But that isn’t where the role creep ends. Compare Hammer to Guardian’s Greatsword.

• Guardian’s GS autoattack’s only utility is a 5 second stack of might (per target hit) on the third strike only. Engineer gets two stacks of Might (per target hit) for 8 seconds for its combo, plus a couple of overly long Vulnerability stacks to boot.

• Whirling Wrath vs. Electro Whirl is probably a case of apples vs. oranges, but the two skills are very much comparable whirl finishers that deal AoE damage. Chances are, Whirling Wrath wins out in the damage department (as it should given its lack of utility and higher cooldown), but the superior chain skill of the Engineer’s Hammer evens out this advantage. Plus, a projectile reflection on a 6 second cooldown? Are you insane?

• Does Leap of Faith sound good? Yes. How about giving the Engineer three of them consecutively on a much lower cooldown. If it weren’t for the blind, there would be no advantage to Leap of Faith whatsoever.

• I won’t compare the other two skills because their effects are different, but in my opinion, the Engineer Hammer skills are, in their totality, superior to the Guardian’s Greatsword with heavy role similarity.

How about traits?

Guardian’s are known for their solid bunkering – great healing, damage mitigation, condi removal, and access to stability. The Engineer is treading into all of that with the Scrapper.

• Adaptive Armor is quite possibly the most over-the-top and overpowered damage mitigation trait in the entire game, building up to 500 toughness with a hefty 20% condition damage mitigation thrown on top of that. Think of a similar Grandmaster trait on Guardian – Retributive Armor, which gives half of that amount of toughness on a less maintainable condition (blocking attacks). And while 13% toughness to ferocity conversion is good, it doesn’t compare to outright ignoring 20% of every damaging condition thrown on you in PvP.

• Perfectly Weighted, if you decide to take it over the utter lunacy that is Adaptive Armor, laughs at Guardian’s stability access. Couple it with Juggernaut and you are virtually immune to cc. And any cc that magically does manage to bypass the Scrapper’s shell is reduced by one of their minor traits.

• Rapid Regeneration, when coupled with the Inventions line, gives the Engineer competitive, if not better sustain than the Guardian.

So now we have a class that does virtually everything another class does, just as well, if not better…. but wait, there’s more!

Unlike the Guardian, the Engineer doesn’t suffer from poor mobility, low cc, and unreliable damage. In fact, the Engineer has always topped the charts on cc and this elite specialization brings their mobility through the roof while giving them even more damage through another means of reliable, potent might and vulnerability stacking.

I don’t even play much Guardian. I play everything, and I intend to main Revenant, but good lord, I feel sorry for the Guardians right about now. And everyone else too, for that matter, because you’ve just made an already-popular PvP class into the best bunker and bruiser in the game.

They are very different actually, Heavy Armor, Shouts, Condi Removal, Medi’s, damage prevention, the list goes on.

Engi’s might be more useful now for large group play, if you think for 1 second that you’re going to see Guardians disappear and Engi’s all over the place you’re sadly mistaken. Guardians are and will be for the foreseeable future, the backbone of groups.

I couldn’t disagree more. Engineers are a better THIEF. Much better stealth and better melee options than the new Staff. Get in line, Guards.

Ohoni.6057:

I couldn’t disagree more. Engineers are a better THIEF. Much better stealth and better melee options than the new Staff. Get in line, Guards.

Inferior blinds. Inferior damage.

Engineer utilities just happen to be the utilities of other classes on steroids.

Gyro that is shadow refuge on steroids, 30 sec cd PLUS 6 sec aoe reveal.

Gyro that does what the mesmer iDefender does, group damage mitigation but the mesmer illusion has a paltry 12k hp so it dies immediately, occupies one of the mesmer’s damaging illusion slots while doing no damage itself, and the gyro accompanies the engineer while the mesmer illusions despawn when a target dies.

On top of that that gyro that is a better version of Illusionary Defender also gives the group a reflection bubble, so it’s a Feedback+iDefender all in one.

Then you have the heal, which not only does potent healing for the group, but when activated gives 5 seconds of protection and a water field.

The group utility is so over the top, it competes with ele team utility.

If any class should be worried, it should be necromancer, ranger, and thief. Mesmer has tons of problem but it has alacrity and quickness so you’ll still bring him if only for a buffbot.

Thief is still the best blind spammer and has a ton of tricks it can pull off while being the highest single target damage class in the game.

As usual ranger and necromancer will be the ones on the chopping block.

Regardless of what people think its “better” than. It does look pretty amazing, same guy worked on Druid so I have hope.

Yeah it definitely has a better instant cast 600 radius 5 stack of stability. /s

My opinion on this:

An engineer’s job, would be to take what it sees as the best in the classes it fights with, and find a way to make the same effects using tech/potions/etc.

Because it’s using it’s tech to try to get similar results, sometimes it will get better results, sometimes it will get weaker results, and sometimes it will get unexpected side-effects.

So it makes perfect sense to me that a well developed engineer would have a little bit of flavor from every class.

Guardian still has better reflect uptime (and can cover more area with it), group aegis, and better group stability among other things. Scrapper is good, but guards won’t lose a spot to them, at least in PvE.

So it makes perfect sense to me that a well developed engineer would have a little bit of flavor from every class.

Yeah, but in a game where the classes are meant to be in balance, the Engineer shouldn’t do other classes core mechanics better than anything that class can do. I mean, Thieves do not have a 30 second Stealth on a 30 second cooldown, we just don’t. That would be awesome, but instead we have a punch combo. It would also be cool if on that same ability we could disable Engis from being able to use kits for about 8 seconds, like their ability can disable stealth.

Honestly, I think it boils down to this, players do not like being killed by enemies that they cannot see. Whether it’s balanced out to be “fair” or not, even if it’s a very high risk method, it’s not “fun” to be attacked by someone you can’t see coming and killed before you can adequately respond. And because everything in this game is balanced around PvP, and therefore around PvP players’ feels, this means that the Thieves have been battered by the nerf stick, in all game modes, since launch. Viciously and constantly.

^ But thiefes dont drag a clearly visible gyro behind them in stealth. You know that there is a scrapper coming and you also sorta know that he is gonna try to stun you once he goes out of stealth cause thats how the gyro does his…gyro stuff. You will also know sorta where he is when running away cause the drone stays rather close to the scrapper no matter what. If he got somebody else cloaked under the gyro…well thats a different theme.

And its not like engineers cant stealth. Bomb kit got a smoke field and elixir-s can stealth too if you toss it…so its nothing new, just longer and got a clear indicator that its certainly atleast one scrapper hiding nearby the gyro

Ohoni.6057:

That would be awesome, but instead we have a punch combo. It would also be cool if on that same ability we could disable Engis from being able to use kits for about 8 seconds, like their ability can disable stealth.

Respawn timers are longer than that. Punch combo kittening hurts.

People need to really stop comparing classes to new elite specizalations already.

Daredevils a better guardian then guardian because staff does more damage

Reapers a better mesmer then mesmer because you can do more damage up close.

Glints a better ele then ele because fury is easier to grant to allies.

Enough already. It’s a different class doing a different role then other classes!

^ But thiefes dont drag a clearly visible gyro behind them in stealth.

Yeah, but outside of PvP, how much will that matter?

That’s why the Engi stealth is not considered a problem, because it’s not as threatening to insecure PvP opponents, they can see that something is coming.

Respawn timers are longer than that. Punch combo kittening hurts.

no, I meant that it would be nice if Thieves got an ability that would let them stealth for 30 seconds on a 30 second cooldown, AND could prevent Engis from using kits for 8 seconds. Apparently that’s balanced.

Ohoni.6057:

^ But thiefes dont drag a clearly visible gyro behind them in stealth.

Yeah, but outside of PvP, how much will that matter?

That’s why the Engi stealth is not considered a problem, because it’s not as threatening to insecure PvP opponents, they can see that something is coming.

Respawn timers are longer than that. Punch combo kittening hurts.

no, I meant that it would be nice if Thieves got an ability that would let them stealth for 30 seconds on a 30 second cooldown, AND could prevent Engis from using kits for 8 seconds. Apparently that’s balanced.

It would be nice if mesmers had this ability to put cooldowns on skills that they interrupt, that actually worked on the class completely immune to them.

It would be nice if necromancer’s chill actually worked on thieves like it does on everybody.

It would be nice if my ranger pet or mesmer illusions or necromancer minions weren’t a free Cloak and Dagger for a thief since AI doesn’t dodge the CnD telegraphs.

It would be nice if my 60 sec cd elite entangle wasn’t negated by a single infiltrator’s strike or steal.

Let me guess, you were the same guy who said Herald is the better Guardian?

It would be nice if mesmers had this ability to put cooldowns on skills that they interrupt, that actually worked on the class completely immune to them.

It would be nice if necromancer’s chill actually worked on thieves like it does on everybody.

It would be nice if my ranger pet or mesmer illusions or necromancer minions weren’t a free Cloak and Dagger for a thief since AI doesn’t dodge the CnD telegraphs.

It would be nice if my 60 sec cd elite entangle wasn’t negated by a single infiltrator’s strike or steal.

Yeah, those things might be nice too, but didn’t really have anything to do with what I said. We;re mostly focused on the Scrapper at the moment.

Ohoni.6057:

It would be nice if mesmers had this ability to put cooldowns on skills that they interrupt, that actually worked on the class completely immune to them.

It would be nice if necromancer’s chill actually worked on thieves like it does on everybody.

It would be nice if my ranger pet or mesmer illusions or necromancer minions weren’t a free Cloak and Dagger for a thief since AI doesn’t dodge the CnD telegraphs.

It would be nice if my 60 sec cd elite entangle wasn’t negated by a single infiltrator’s strike or steal.

Yeah, those things might be nice too, but didn’t really have anything to do with what I said. We;re mostly focused on the Scrapper at the moment.

No, you’re acting all aggrieved as if your precious class had the right to be immune from skills that unfairly target them above all others, and yet that is exactly what the thief does to many classes.

Having a guaranteed cloak and dagger off dumb AI who can’t dodge it is about as predatory to a class’s mechanic as the engineers aoe reveal is.

And let’s be honest, this will hurt mesmers even more since their stealth is actually on long cd’s whereas all you need on a thief is to port away and BP>HS to start again.

You’re not the only class affected by it. It’s about time stealth started having heavy counters, too bad they’ve chosen to concentrate it all on the engineer.

No, you’re acting all aggrieved as if your precious class had the right to be immune from skills that unfairly target them above all others, and yet that is exactly what the thief does to many classes.

Honestly it’s more because I’m upset that Thieves are constantly getting nerfed, in ALL modes, just because people really hate getting hit by stealthed enemies in sPvP. It’s not that Thief stealth is unfair or unbalanced, it’s that it doesn’t feel good to get ambushed, to get caught unawares and not be able to react fast enough to mount a proper defense. There’s really no way for them to balance those feels.

I’m upset that the non-sneaky class is getting a MUCH better stealthing utility than anything Thieves have access to, AND a more interesting melee weapon than the Thieves are getting. I think we have every right to be quite upset.

Having a guaranteed cloak and dagger off dumb AI who can’t dodge it is about as predatory to a class’s mechanic as the engineers aoe reveal is.

Why? Keeping in mind that it only applies to PvP and who cares about that, all it does is Stealth the thief for a couple seconds. Big Whup. An Engineer can stealth himself and several of his friends for 30 seconds, and doesn’t even need to hit a pet for it.

And let’s be honest, this will hurt mesmers even more since their stealth is actually on long cd’s whereas all you need on a thief is to port away and BP>HS to start again.

To what end? Thieves can run away all they like, they’re very hard to pin down, but what does it matter if they can’t actually accomplish anything?

Dragonhunter died yesterday. R.I.P. DH you won’t be missed.

How is a CnD important? Are you trolling? Maybe it’s the fact it gives you access to a target drop that makes you immune to damage against classes that are not an elementalist/necro/engineer, considering most classes don’t have spammable AoE to wildly flail at thin air in hopes of hitting a stealth thief.

Maybe it’s the fact that stealth clears condies and with shadow rejuvenation allows the thief to regen back up to full health.

Or maybe it’s the fact that it gives the thief another guaranteed attempt at using backstab or sneak attack, their most powerful skill respectively.

You know, because the entire purpose of tells and dodging is to deny an enemy follow up if you dodge the kitten attack, except the thief doesn’t even need to try because a clone/pet is a guaranteed means of entering stealth.

But by all means keep pretending as if stealth just feels bad, and people don’t detest thieves and PU mesmers for no reason whatsoever other than the fact stealth is spammable target drop whose only counterplay is a guessing game and the players open from stealth with burst skills that should HAVE TELLS/TELEGRAPHS like every other non-stealth class has their burst attack telegraphed.

oh crap next one…. guys, could you please make up your mind WHAT better scrapper is?

it started with “better beastmaster” now we have beter guardian, someone mentioned better thief… what’s next? better elementalist?

How is a CnD important? Are you trolling? Maybe it’s the fact it gives you access to a target drop that makes you immune to damage against classes that are not an elementalist/necro/engineer, considering most classes don’t have spammable AoE to wildly flail at thin air in hopes of hitting a stealth thief.

So, maybe you can’t damage a Thief that’s stealthed (although plenty can, including members of every class), but he can’t damage you either without breaking stealth, and then you can hit him. Any class that has trouble with Thieves has problems with anyone else too.

But again, that’s just a PvP issue, and who the hell cares? The problem is how they keep nerfing Thieves in PvE.

But by all means keep pretending as if stealth just feels bad, and people don’t detest thieves and PU mesmers for no reason whatsoever other than the fact stealth is spammable target drop whose only counterplay is a guessing game and the players open from stealth with burst skills that should HAVE TELLS/TELEGRAPHS like every other non-stealth class has their burst attack telegraphed.

How would stealth function if it had tells? You aren’t making any sense. The entire point of stealth is to be sneaky, because a thief that is not sneaky just get obliterated. And even thieves that are sneaky are often either obliterated, or have to run away, either of which means that they did not succeed.

oh crap next one…. guys, could you please make up your mind WHAT better scrapper is?

it started with “better beastmaster” now we have beter guardian, someone mentioned better thief… what’s next? better elementalist?

All of the above?

It’s not about the killable gyro at all. For a thief to give group stealth support, we cast SR and everyone has to stop and sit in it until it ends

the gyro can be popped, mid-run, and sacrificed to the enemy team, but a teammate can literally gain stealth just by running through the field.

Blowing up the gyro doesn’t remove the 10+ seconds of stealth everyone near it already has and due to the duration _it’s going to be a lot more people with the full stack than shadow refuge.

Not only that _but it’s a packaged deal with an AoE reveal.

It’s not just a better SR. it’s a better veil, sic ’em, and a better mass invis as well.

The only think keeping it in balance is that engis have to give up supply drop or mortar for it. Meanwhile a stun on a cooldown, 2 pets, or 7s stability and whirls are “elite” for thieves because our traits hamstring venoms, our pets do combo fields, and our whirl hits lots of things.

Sugar coat it however you like, but thieves aren’t just disadvantaged by someone who chooses a reveal skill. They’re already disadvataged in every fight since the trait update ue to the insane amount of passive defense avaliable to everyone that’s not a thief. They’re simply eviscerated by a reveal skill/ Revealing a stealth build isn’t a ‘counter’ it’s a I win button that cuts off all condi cleansing and passive damage mitigation. This is an issue other classes with stealth skills don’t have. Htey have the same amount of tank in stealth or out of it. Thieves however are a design relic that was originally balanced around high risk high reward play that has now lost its reward and is experiencing increasingly high risk.

Seriously. When was the last time you were jumped by a thief 1v1 and actually died? They don’t have the tools at this point. Something needs to be done for thief durability or stealth or whatever. They’re squishier than ever and they recieved a damage nerf in the same patch that gave most other classes a damage buff, despite the fact that the only defenses that got buffed were all stealth traits, and their non-stealth survivability was actually nerfed. They were already unable to kill anything not in full zerk, and only then when running boring burst builds that only got to try to fight once every 60 seconds and then ran away on cooldowns.

why do you guardians always think you are the only ones which should be able
to buff the party i mean really get over yourselves yea you also have 2nd highest dps.

Guards who know their business are not threatened by anything we’ve seen from Especs. Some are interesting. Some will take some attention to smash when they are on the other team. Some will make us smile when we team up with them. None of them stop the Guard from being the best at being a Guardian.

^ cause they are afraid they are one day not meta\needed anymore and pushed into the 2nd row like other classes had for far too long.

I may be mistaken but aren’t elite specializations suppose to be better than standard classes?

If you’re comparing Scrapper to Dragonhunter (/barf that name is so bad) that’s a different story.

Prophet.6257:

I may be mistaken but aren’t elite specializations suppose to be better than standard classes?

Nope. Despite the name ‘elite’, they’re not supposed to make their parent-profession obsolete. They’re an exchange of options.

Purpose of guardian hammer is group utility/control, not damage or even self buff. Traited (why run it untraited anyway?) it gives large size permanent protection field and provides team healing. Even if you are using it purely for damage the permanent protection that benefits entire team is still there.

Extreme.8350:

why do you guardians always think you are the only ones which should be able
to buff the party i mean really get over yourselves yea you also have 2nd highest dps.

So if we are not the only ones that can buff , why are we the only ones with 1 condition dmg? (sigils dont count). Plus we don’t have highest dps, we may be having 3rd burst dmg, but not highest.

So if you logic is legit, guardians can have fear, bleed, poison, confusion, torment, slow? So I want those.

There have been incessant demands for new skills and new ways to play existing professions. There have also been incessant demands that the “have-not” professions be brought up to the group desirability level of the “have” professions. Did people think that these two demands could be met with no redundancy and overlap?

Ragnarox.9601:

Extreme.8350:

why do you guardians always think you are the only ones which should be able
to buff the party i mean really get over yourselves yea you also have 2nd highest dps.

So if we are not the only ones that can buff , why are we the only ones with 1 condition dmg? (sigils dont count). Plus we don’t have highest dps, we may be having 3rd burst dmg, but not highest.

So if you logic is legit, guardians can have fear, bleed, poison, confusion, torment, slow? So I want those.

Yea if it was up to me you could have all that as long as we would get back our mantra charging in the background but don’t forget guardians are mandatory everywhere.

If you want to complain about Engi hammer you should compare it to Ranger gs instead of guardian gs, and be awed at the similarities.

But in relation to guardian gs vs engi hammer: You can’t really compare the autos yet until it is tested in game with attack speed and coefficients etc, the whirls are the only skills on the weapons that are somewhat comparable, and the other skills in the weapon kits aren’t really that similar.

Ohoni.6057:

No, you’re acting all aggrieved as if your precious class had the right to be immune from skills that unfairly target them above all others, and yet that is exactly what the thief does to many classes.

Honestly it’s more because I’m upset that Thieves are constantly getting nerfed, in ALL modes, just because people really hate getting hit by stealthed enemies in sPvP. It’s not that Thief stealth is unfair or unbalanced, it’s that it doesn’t feel good to get ambushed, to get caught unawares and not be able to react fast enough to mount a proper defense. There’s really no way for them to balance those feels.

I’m upset that the non-sneaky class is getting a MUCH better stealthing utility than anything Thieves have access to, AND a more interesting melee weapon than the Thieves are getting. I think we have every right to be quite upset.

Having a guaranteed cloak and dagger off dumb AI who can’t dodge it is about as predatory to a class’s mechanic as the engineers aoe reveal is.

Why? Keeping in mind that it only applies to PvP and who cares about that, all it does is Stealth the thief for a couple seconds. Big Whup. An Engineer can stealth himself and several of his friends for 30 seconds, and doesn’t even need to hit a pet for it.

And let’s be honest, this will hurt mesmers even more since their stealth is actually on long cd’s whereas all you need on a thief is to port away and BP>HS to start again.

To what end? Thieves can run away all they like, they’re very hard to pin down, but what does it matter if they can’t actually accomplish anything?

It’s not the being caught unaware, that is exactly how it should work. It’s the over abundance and availability to vanish at the drop of a hat. An opening strike is fine, the ability to vanish with a long CD as an Oh kitten button is fine, vanishing every couple seconds is a horrible mechanic. Every other MMO avoids this method for a very good reason, it’s not because they didn’t think of it, it’s just a crap mechanic. Add in the ability to break the sound barrier if a thief chooses to run and presto you have a recipe for ticked off players. Thieves should have less stealth dependence and more evade dependence. They should be able to spike from stealth then have a chance in a fight because they are hard to hit due to evades, not constant vanishes that are far to easy execute. Few classes can reveal, fewer can spam AoE, add in the ability to Stealth followed by SS away makes a thief with half a brain stupid to fight.

It’s not the being caught unaware, that is exactly how it should work. It’s the over abundance and availability to vanish at the drop of a hat.

No, it’s the being caught unaware. That’s what bothers people, whether they admit it or not. The Thief’s ability to vanish? Who cares about that? If the Thief vanishes then that means you’ve won! You can’t cap points while invisible, you don’t score any points for fleeing with your tail between your legs, until they start giving out points for a Thief backstabbing you and then running away successful, there’s absolutely no reason to be jelly over them being capable of doing so. If it’s not helping them score points, you have no reason to care.

Thieves are very good at not dying. It is somewhat useful, but nowhere near as useful as being capable of killing would be.

I agree with Random, make thieves less stealth reliant and buff there tankiness with more condi removal, more evades and such. That way people are less irritated to fight against thieves because of all the stealth and that way thieves might actually stay in a fight longer then for some1 to sneez at the.

I don’t agree, baddies might die off the initial strikes but the majority hate the fact that when it time to fight, poof reset, oh there he is, poof reset, oh there he is, poof reset …..

It’s the most cowardly class in any game I have ever played with little to no draw backs.

You need to stop focusing on just SPvP and realize its incredibly broken in WvW, the constant vanishes have little to do with SPvP because of map size and immediate surroundings. Give them a large area to work with and its broken as kitten.

Thats why it would be nice of anet if they split skills between love,pvp and wvw. The reason het thieves are so cowardly is because they are squishy as hell. The need stealth to survive. So if anet nerves stealth, they must buff the thief in another area.

I agree, that’s why I said they need to be more Evade dependent.

Matti.2719:

Thats why it would be nice of anet if they split skills between love,pvp and wvw. The reason het thieves are so cowardly is because they are squishy as hell. The need stealth to survive. So if anet nerves stealth, they must buff the thief in another area.

Anyone in zerker is squishy.

A zerker ranger or ele is far easier to kill than a thief. Guess who do the teams focus fire in spvp? Hint: it’s not the thief who constantly ports away or stealths.

There’s good reason why many people run stealth thieves in WvW, they got virtually fool proof escapes and can reset at will.

Everything is a better guardian than guardian.

I don’t agree, baddies might die off the initial strikes but the majority hate the fact that when it time to fight, poof reset, oh there he is, poof reset, oh there he is, poof reset …..

It’s the most cowardly class in any game I have ever played with little to no draw backs.

But again, WHO CARES? There is no advantage to gain from “poof reset,” it’s just “not losing,” but it’s still not winning either. There are far more annoying tactics other classes get which allow them to actually stay in the fight and continue to harm you.

I bet I can burn a scapper into the ground in under 3 seconds.

Ohoni.6057:

I don’t agree, baddies might die off the initial strikes but the majority hate the fact that when it time to fight, poof reset, oh there he is, poof reset, oh there he is, poof reset …..

It’s the most cowardly class in any game I have ever played with little to no draw backs.

But again, WHO CARES? There is no advantage to gain from “poof reset,” it’s just “not losing,” but it’s still not winning either. There are far more annoying tactics other classes get which allow them to actually stay in the fight and continue to harm you.

actually if he comes back immediatelly after this again – then he has advantage from resetting the fight…… (hint hint: initiative kills vs cd based skills)

And Scrapper has only 1 weapon due to no weapon swap whereas guardiana lways has 2.

And don’t come with kits argument because the class should work without having to rely on them since that’s not even the class mechanic.

Scrapper is bad as it is. Go to engie forum to see why :P

Rizo.9534:

Killyox.3950:

Enjoy your infraction.

Enge, have fastest weaponSwap in game.
Have more skills on panel than every other class in game.

By using kits, Enge can get 40 skills in 1 build in total!

And you say, that you need weapon swap?

Sad story.

Dude, did you even read my post? Apparently not.

Here, have it again

Killyox.3950:

And Scrapper has only 1 weapon due to no weapon swap whereas guardiana lways has 2.

And don’t come with kits argument because the class should work without having to rely on them since that’s not even the class mechanic.

Scrapper is bad as it is. Go to engie forum to see why :P

So:

1) I didn’t ask for weapon swap ANYWHERE. Stop making things up.

2) I already said that kits are NOT a class mechanic and engineer should be balanced also around the idea of not using them. You don’t balance elementalists around them using conjured weapons all the time.

So read thoroughly before making things up.

Random.4691:

They are very different actually, Heavy Armor, Shouts, Condi Removal, Medi’s, damage prevention, the list goes on.

Engi’s might be more useful now for large group play, if you think for 1 second that you’re going to see Guardians disappear and Engi’s all over the place you’re sadly mistaken. Guardians are and will be for the foreseeable future, the backbone of groups.

Heavy armour vs Medium armour, a difference of 150. Which is worth about a 4% damage reduction that is laughable compared to the 4300 hp difference.

Engi just got an easily accessible 500 Toughness stacking trait (worth around 15%) on top of a flat 20% condition damage reduction.

Engineer has a lot more Vigor uptime, various ranged damage options, access to a 3s Block on a 20s cooldown and can mitigate a huge amount of damage that way.

@Ezrael, they are giving it to engie because different classes have different builds, strength and weaknesses. Guardian has a lot of things to make him tougher.

Elite Specs must be coherent and working by themselves without requiring other skills because what would be the point?

So in order to make him fulfil certain role they envision they need to make certain traits a lot stronget than otherwise. Traits that for other classes would be hilariously OP. Can you imagine this trait on a Necro ? XD

Vigour uptime is only if you combine 2 lines and traits swiftness + vigour on it. It’s similar to thieves who mostly have active defenses. Engineers are a mix whereas Guardians have a lot of passive defense.

You need to compare entirety of a class to another class as a whole. Not just parts of it because otherwise things may seem OP. Right now if anything Hammer is good altough too little dmg but gyros are absolutely terrible in current interation.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

I don’t even play much Guardian. I play everything, and I intend to main Revenant, but good lord, I feel sorry for the Guardians right about now. And everyone else too, for that matter, because you’ve just made an already-popular PvP class into the best bunker and bruiser in the game.

It’s such a great time to be an Engie!