Slow: or how Anet screws over PvE
And you think they dont know that?
Tekkit Mojo – Engineer
Tekkit’s Workshop
Tekkit’s Workshop
If ‘Slow’ is being introduced to the game, you can bet enemies will have it too, just like they’re also getting ‘Taunt’.
They are finally FIXING PvE. With enemies being able to apply this condition as well, there will be a POINT to run supportive sets in PvE content. This means there will be more accepted build diversity in Dungeons/Large-scale PvE content because something OTHER than pew pew will be needed. You will likely be able to make a viable build that is still full glass (if you actually enjoy that) and just bring some party-support utilities/traits, but this sounds like a step in the right direction in terms of game balance.
The only thing that I see, is that if we end up in a dungeon with perma slow inflicted on all players, then bringing a condition oriented team might be a sound choice. (Note the emphasis on “might”)
Known as Reegar Else, Linda Else, Xiana Else and Thorgall Breakstone
I think that the new abilities/conditions are to FIX pve, not break it. Right now, yes, zerkers is the only build to run, but now people will have a reason to run tanky with the introduction of skills that use taunt, or builds that utilize boons/conditions as it is likely that enemies will also be able to slow, taunt, and use resistance.
But all games that have both PvE and PvP are going to have certain elements that don’t cross over. Slow will likely make PvP more interesting, but even if it isn’t as viable in PvE it doesn’t mean its going to break the game. There are plenty of skills and builds that are great in PvE but completely useless in PvP, and vise versa.
This condition does sound counterintuitive given the problems with retaliation and confusion being so worthless in pve. I hope Anet has a plan to address this. Slow sounds like inverse quickness, which makes me think it will have similar restrictions on cooldown and duration. I can’t imagine being able to keep it up for very long.
Not just slow, but resistance and taunt as well sound quite horrible for PvE.
-1, do not want.
Not just slow, but resistance and taunt as well sound quite horrible for PvE.
-1, do not want.
How will resistance and taunt do anything but help pve?
Resistance:
Oh you mean I will actually have to pull out my boon strip skill and use it intelligently? Oh noes!
Taunt:
You mean I can try to rescue a vulnerable party member from getting squashed, or pull something to a safer spot to fight it? Oh noes!
Slow is a wonderful condition that will be spectacular for pushing Anet’s esports agenda, however it is doomed to be a disaster in PvE unless all over PvE is getting an overhaul.
The problem since launch with PvE is that enemies have big, strong, slow attacks. This means active defenses reign supreme, zerker dominates builds, only DPS matters, and confusion is useless in PvE. You just burst down the enemies and dodge the occasional attack they dish out (if they live long enough to actually attack)
So Anet’s solution to this is to AMPLIFY the problem with a new condition… what is the reasoning here outside of esports?
Please either announce that all of PvE is getting an overhaul or that this is an early april’s fool joke…
I believe there is a good chance that PVE AI is changing and the mechanics of fights are also changing.
Mobs likely will attack in packs for large scale PvE, and this slow condition will be more useful for those large adds packs that will be sent to attack you and your allies during a big battle.
1v1 it won’t have as big of an effect.
1. You don’t know how common this condition will be, or how many classes will have access too it and how readily available it will be.
2. You don’t know how effective (if effective at all) it will be on elite tier’d mobs and above. (Think blinds on champions, 10% effective).
3. If we’re getting this new condition, you can bet your kitten that NPC’s and bosses will be getting it too on a stronger scale.
4. You have no idea what Anet have in store for us with the new content in HoT, there could be many encounters that punish zerker builds and encourage different playstyles.
Warrior 80 | Guardian 80 | Ranger 80 | Engineer 80 |
Thief 80 | Elementalist 80 | Mesmer 80 | Necromancer 80 | Revenant TBA
Thief 80 | Elementalist 80 | Mesmer 80 | Necromancer 80 | Revenant TBA
Slow is a wonderful condition that will be spectacular for pushing Anet’s esports agenda, however it is doomed to be a disaster in PvE unless all over PvE is getting an overhaul.
The problem since launch with PvE is that enemies have big, strong, slow attacks. This means active defenses reign supreme, zerker dominates builds, only DPS matters, and confusion is useless in PvE. You just burst down the enemies and dodge the occasional attack they dish out (if they live long enough to actually attack)
So Anet’s solution to this is to AMPLIFY the problem with a new condition… what is the reasoning here outside of esports?
Please either announce that all of PvE is getting an overhaul or that this is an early april’s fool joke…
I believe there is a good chance that PVE AI is changing and the mechanics of fights are also changing.
Mobs likely will attack in packs for large scale PvE, and this slow condition will be more useful for those large adds packs that will be sent to attack you and your allies during a big battle.
1v1 it won’t have as big of an effect.
Yes to most of it, but if it is like quickness(+50%), it will be perilous to fight 1v1(-50%). I’m suspecting Mesmer gets a lot of it(time stasis opposite of time warp)
How will resistance and taunt do anything but help pve?
Resistance:
Oh you mean I will actually have to pull out my boon strip skill and use it intelligently? Oh noes!
Except a few classes will become the designated boon removers while nothing changes for the rest. Yay for roles and success-critical classes. Not.
Taunt:
You mean I can try to rescue a vulnerable party member from getting squashed, or pull something to a safer spot to fight it? Oh noes!
You can pull anything anywhere without taunt.
That vulnerable party member having to take care of himself rather than relying on others to do it for him (and, consequently, blaming them to no end) is one the core principles of gw2 combat.
Slow: or how Anet screws over PvE
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045
Aren’t you overreacting a little? I don’t see how Slow is becoming a problem in PvE. We don’t even know in what capacity players and npc’s get access to this condition.
Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors
~Sincerely, Scissors
How will resistance and taunt do anything but help pve?
Resistance:
Oh you mean I will actually have to pull out my boon strip skill and use it intelligently? Oh noes!
Except a few classes will become the designated boon removers while nothing changes for the rest. Yay for roles and success-critical classes. Not.
Wouldn’t be critical to have one, just optimal. Funnily enough, the best boonstrip classes are the two almost nobody uses in PvE. It’s almost like ANet was trying to give Necros and Mesmers more of a role in HoT PvE.
They are finally FIXING PvE. With enemies being able to apply this condition as well, there will be a POINT to run supportive sets in PvE content. This means there will be more accepted build diversity in Dungeons/Large-scale PvE content because something OTHER than pew pew will be needed. You will likely be able to make a viable build that is still full glass (if you actually enjoy that) and just bring some party-support utilities/traits, but this sounds like a step in the right direction in terms of game balance.
I think the point is this. All or nothing. They need to complete the fixes this time and not half fast it like they did in the past! That’s what I got out of OP’s post and I completely agree!
PVE’s been on the backburner for years now it’s time it’s fixed from the bottom up all the way through and they now have the time and money there should be no excuses when launch day comes!
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
Why are these PHIW threads always full of people who don’t understand that ‘zerkers’ (I assume you mean ‘Meta runners’ and haven’t realized that gear stats=/=build) support each other just as much as any other silliness that any other PHIW ‘support’ build has ever proposed?
I know what will happen: condi clears, dodges, stunbreaks, self heals, Aegis, Blind, blocks, invulnerable and any other active mitigation will still operate at 100% efficiency, no matter what gear you’re wearing, and nothing will change about their not being a trinity in GW2.
Congrats to Heart of Thorns for getting it’s first “Nerf these zerkers” thread even though it it isn’t even in alpha testing yet. That’s got to be some kind of record. :/
Isn’t slow basically just like chilled (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilled)? It looks very much like chilled, except with no signs of movement speed decrease.
Isn’t slow basically just like chilled (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilled)? It looks very much like chilled, except with no signs of movement speed decrease.
Chill decreases MOVEMENT speed by 66% and SKILLS CD by 33%.
Slow INCREASES THE ACTIVATION TIMES OF SKILLS. (meaning if you cast your 1 sec heal, it’ll take maybet 1.5 secs to activate if you’re slowed.)
Isn’t slow basically just like chilled (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilled)? It looks very much like chilled, except with no signs of movement speed decrease.
Chill slows down the enemy and their cooldowns.
Slow makes the abilities take longer to cast. As opposite to Quickness, which makes the abilities go off faster.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
The fact that we know that the new AI-guys stuff will be in HoT makes me think that it is rather likely that they have changed the mobs AI quite a bit and as such I am not sure it is possible to claim how well or or bad it will work until we actually see it in action.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Aren’t you overreacting a little? I don’t see how Slow is becoming a problem in PvE. We don’t even know in what capacity players and npc’s get access to this condition.
This basic principle also applies to so many more topics we only have marginal information about…
Not just slow, but resistance and taunt as well sound quite horrible for PvE.
-1, do not want.
How will resistance and taunt do anything but help pve?
Resistance:
Oh you mean I will actually have to pull out my boon strip skill and use it intelligently? Oh noes!
Taunt:
You mean I can try to rescue a vulnerable party member from getting squashed, or pull something to a safer spot to fight it? Oh noes!
Because conditions suck hard enough in pve that they dont need even more roadblocks put in their way?
But thats the crux, we dont know if mobs will get such abilities en mass.
Slow might be great to keep zerkers alive, BUT it might only come in support/CC focussed builds.
Implementation of these new mechanics is where it’s going to be descided, not the sheer existenance of these mechanics.
Resistance is not a bad mechanic, it could be if it gets handed out willy nilly to very boss, every profession, and all of their past, present, and future pets.
How will resistance and taunt do anything but help pve?
Resistance:
Oh you mean I will actually have to pull out my boon strip skill and use it intelligently? Oh noes!
Except a few classes will become the designated boon removers while nothing changes for the rest. Yay for roles and success-critical classes. Not.
Wouldn’t be critical to have one, just optimal. Funnily enough, the best boonstrip classes are the two almost nobody uses in PvE. It’s almost like ANet was trying to give Necros and Mesmers more of a role in HoT PvE.
No one uses boon strippers in PvE because they are worthless. You can strip a boon(s) every 50s (except thief who can do it based on their energy)… too bad PvE enemies have 5s CD’s on their boons… this means you just wasted a utility slot and gained no advantage.
Slow essentially gives you more time to dodge, move, or interrupt a skill. Of course good players can already do this with the current amount of time given, which is why all good players run zerker. They don’t take damage, so they can focus everything on dps. By increasing the margin for error with slow, zerker will be usable by even more people, making it less useful to use other builds.
My point here is not to nerf zerker, or have them not include slow. I think both of these things are fine in principal. My point is that Anet needs to overhaul PvE completely and make enemies attack faster with weaker attacks. This makes more builds viable and gives slow a better place in the game.
How will resistance and taunt do anything but help pve?
Resistance:
Oh you mean I will actually have to pull out my boon strip skill and use it intelligently? Oh noes!
Except a few classes will become the designated boon removers while nothing changes for the rest. Yay for roles and success-critical classes. Not.
Wouldn’t be critical to have one, just optimal. Funnily enough, the best boonstrip classes are the two almost nobody uses in PvE. It’s almost like ANet was trying to give Necros and Mesmers more of a role in HoT PvE.
No one uses boon strippers in PvE because they are worthless. You can strip a boon(s) every 50s (except thief who can do it based on their energy)… too bad PvE enemies have 5s CD’s on their boons… this means you just wasted a utility slot and gained no advantage.
Longest cooldown for a boon stripping skill (outside of Lich Form 5’s practical cooldown) is 40 seconds, and those skills mass-strip (Corrupt Boon, Well of Corruption, and Null Field). Literally every other boonstrip (trait, skill, and sigil) in the game is 20 seconds or less.
As for boon application, ANet has been getting better. Aetherblades apply high duration, long cooldown boons, as do Mordrem Menders and Mordrem Wolves (granted, Swiftness is not an important boon to strip).
I don’t think the new slow condition/debuff will change anything at all. (and I’m not saying that’s a good or bad thing)
(edited by Wahaha.7938)
I advise everybody to pile into whatever becomes the Flavour of the Month class because fixes are implemented at such a cautious pace, often to an ineffectual degree and in most cases not at all.