Guild Wars 2

From today’s News: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-story-so-farheart-of-thorns-beats/#.VR1rueEs4zc.reddit

“Pursuing Caithe, players learned of her dark history with Faolain of the Nightmare Court and discovered the great secret that Caithe has lied, stolen, and killed to protect—that the ultimate source of the sylvari race is Mordremoth itself. This revelation came too late to prevent the Pact air fleet from launching its invasion, and Marshal Trahearne led his army into a devastating ambush on the edge of Maguuma, where Mordremoth’s influence was so strong that it turned many of the Pact sylvari against their former comrades. With the fleet destroyed, the Pact is now broken, and the only ones left to stand against the jungle dragon are the player and a handful of stalwart companions.”

So Trahearne was actually under Mordremoths influence, like Scarlet and Aerin, too? And he has the Pact Fleet died intentionally?

What do you think? Will we need to kill him because he is evil? Is he still alive?

I think you’re reading that wrong. It’s possible Trahearne knew about the ambush, but I doubt it.

Keep in mind they also pointed out Aerin was someone who disconnected himself from the dream and was able to be influenced by Mordremoth. To our awareness Trahearne is still very connected to the Pale Tree and her protection. (As far as we know). Honestly though if Trahearne ended up being a traitor…I think we’d all be very happy

Sodeni.6041:

From today’s News: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-story-so-farheart-of-thorns-beats/#.VR1rueEs4zc.reddit

“Pursuing Caithe, players learned of her dark history with Faolain of the Nightmare Court and discovered the great secret that Caithe has lied, stolen, and killed to protect—that the ultimate source of the sylvari race is Mordremoth itself. This revelation came too late to prevent the Pact air fleet from launching its invasion, and Marshal Trahearne led his army into a devastating ambush on the edge of Maguuma, where Mordremoth’s influence was so strong that it turned many of the Pact sylvari against their former comrades. With the fleet destroyed, the Pact is now broken, and the only ones left to stand against the jungle dragon are the player and a handful of stalwart companions.”

So Trahearne was actually under Mordremoths influence, like Scarlet and Aerin, too? And he has the Pact Fleet died intentionally?

What do you think? Will we need to kill him because he is evil? Is he still alive?

The sentence would have read the same if Trahearne wasn’t (or isn’t) under M’s influence. He’s the leader of the pact. It’s his job to lead his forces to w/e they go. The fact that in the final cutscene he tells his forces to fire on Mordremoth makes it seem odd if he was under M’s control.

Right, I read that as “unwittingly led his army into a devastating ambush” because the revelation of the ’vari status came “too late to prevent … launching its invasion.” Thus Trahearne went into the ambush because he lacked crucial intel, not because he was corrupted.

If I remember correctly, he resigned from the post before fighting Zhaitan — so why is he back to fight Mord’ when he’s suppose to be an “Orr expert”?

This what’s happen when you let “Quinctilius Varus” lead your soldiers.

Whether he did or didn’t do it intentionally. I for one am hoping he gets corrupted and we get to kill him anyways. So its a win-win for me =P.

That’s what you get for doing absolutely nothing and stealing the credit in killing Zhaitan!

IrishPotato.6327:

Keep in mind they also pointed out Aerin was someone who disconnected himself from the dream and was able to be influenced by Mordremoth. To our awareness Trahearne is still very connected to the Pale Tree and her protection. (As far as we know). Honestly though if Trahearne ended up being a traitor…I think we’d all be very happy

But why did the pact soldiers turn against all others? They should be under the mothertrees’ protection too? So why did they currupt and not Trahearne?

Sodeni.6041:

IrishPotato.6327:

Keep in mind they also pointed out Aerin was someone who disconnected himself from the dream and was able to be influenced by Mordremoth. To our awareness Trahearne is still very connected to the Pale Tree and her protection. (As far as we know). Honestly though if Trahearne ended up being a traitor…I think we’d all be very happy

But why did the pact soldiers turn against all others? They should be under the mothertrees’ protection too? So why did they currupt and not Trahearne?

Why didn’t Laranthir turn? (We know he’s specifically not corrupted), and why don’t the PC Sylvari turn?

It got hit pretty well above though, it’s pretty clearly supposed to read Trahearne unwittingly led the pact fleet into an ambush

I hope so,
and it he is, I wish we get the opportunity to kill him !
and no returning of trahaerne as an undead whatever either !

Windsagio.1340:

Sodeni.6041:

IrishPotato.6327:

Keep in mind they also pointed out Aerin was someone who disconnected himself from the dream and was able to be influenced by Mordremoth. To our awareness Trahearne is still very connected to the Pale Tree and her protection. (As far as we know). Honestly though if Trahearne ended up being a traitor…I think we’d all be very happy

But why did the pact soldiers turn against all others? They should be under the mothertrees’ protection too? So why did they currupt and not Trahearne?

Why didn’t Laranthir turn? (We know he’s specifically not corrupted), and why don’t the PC Sylvari turn?

It got hit pretty well above though, it’s pretty clearly supposed to read Trahearne unwittingly led the pact fleet into an ambush

Regardless of protection or not, it was stated that sylvari could not be corrupted by elder dragons due to their natural good will and spirit (atleast from an interview a couple years ago). If that of course changes throughout their lifespan then the likely hood of that happening will change. The teachings of the ventari tablet teach just that, good will and spirit.

This begs the question as to whether Malyck will be corrupt despite lack of pale tree influence as everyone knows he had a very noble personality.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Windsagio.1340:

Sodeni.6041:

IrishPotato.6327:

Keep in mind they also pointed out Aerin was someone who disconnected himself from the dream and was able to be influenced by Mordremoth. To our awareness Trahearne is still very connected to the Pale Tree and her protection. (As far as we know). Honestly though if Trahearne ended up being a traitor…I think we’d all be very happy

But why did the pact soldiers turn against all others? They should be under the mothertrees’ protection too? So why did they currupt and not Trahearne?

Why didn’t Laranthir turn? (We know he’s specifically not corrupted), and why don’t the PC Sylvari turn?

It got hit pretty well above though, it’s pretty clearly supposed to read Trahearne unwittingly led the pact fleet into an ambush

Regardless of protection or not, it was stated that sylvari could not be corrupted by elder dragons due to their natural good will and spirit (atleast from an interview a couple years ago). If that of course changes throughout their lifespan then the likely hood of that happening will change. The teachings of the ventari tablet teach just that, good will and spirit.

This begs the question as to whether Malyck will be corrupt despite lack of pale tree influence as everyone knows he had a very noble personality.

That was more of a hypothesis than an absolute. Dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons.

I hope not. Unlike 90% of the players it seems in this game, i like Traeherne, the stuff that people spread about him isnt right. Sure hes boring, but i like him more than almost all of Destinys edge, and a few of DE2 characters.

Why do you think all vegeterians feel so good about their morals?

Because they actively fight the greatest evil this world has known – cabbages!

I think that Traeherne did not “turn evil”, because as one of the first born he have advantage from the other slyvari. As for, why sylvari started to act like this just when they enter the jungle: I think that since the awakening of elder dragons, every one of them had something, or someone to prepare the world for his arrival. Whit Primodius it was the Grate destroyer and Jormag had Svanir. But Mordremoths emissary was less obvious. We can assume that original purpose of Pale Tree was to bring Sylvari (as dragon minions) to the world and prepare for dragons return. On the other hand Mordremoth couldn’t predict Venatari, who would take care of growing tree and present it with Ventari’s Tablet, which would influence first born Sylvari and change them from their original purpose. Thus Jungle Dragoon had to weaken the Pale Tree before he could attend to take control of his original minions. We can safly assume thath Pale tree was shielding dreaming Slyvari from dragons Nightmare and that’s why he could take controle of Scarlet and Aerin, who both turn them self from Pale Tree.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If I remember correctly, he resigned from the post before fighting Zhaitan — so why is he back to fight Mord’ when he’s suppose to be an “Orr expert”?

This what’s happen when you let “Quinctilius Varus” lead your soldiers.

He never resigned nor was there ever any indication of such.

In fact, during the celebration after Zhaitan’s defeat he outright states having to lead the pact through five more “impossible victories” against the Elder Dragons – right after being sorry he couldn’t join the assault on Zhaitan due to being weakened from casting the cleansing ritual (e.g., why he wasn’t in the Arah story instance).

Fade.1743:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Windsagio.1340:

Why didn’t Laranthir turn? (We know he’s specifically not corrupted), and why don’t the PC Sylvari turn?

It got hit pretty well above though, it’s pretty clearly supposed to read Trahearne unwittingly led the pact fleet into an ambush

Regardless of protection or not, it was stated that sylvari could not be corrupted by elder dragons due to their natural good will and spirit (atleast from an interview a couple years ago). If that of course changes throughout their lifespan then the likely hood of that happening will change. The teachings of the ventari tablet teach just that, good will and spirit.

This begs the question as to whether Malyck will be corrupt despite lack of pale tree influence as everyone knows he had a very noble personality.

That was more of a hypothesis than an absolute. Dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons.

-Sigh-
Nothing ever said dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons. In fact, Subject Alpha and the entire Crucible of Eternity purpose indicates otherwise.

We don’t know why the sylvari are protected, but the indication is that it is a combination of the Dream (unique to the Pale Tree and her sylvari – Malyck has no Dream connection) and willpower. Per this article, proximity to Mordremoth’s corruption strengthens his ability to overcome their corruption.

Furthermore it is implied that without the Dream, sylvari can be corrupted by ANY Elder Dragon.

I still want to know why the leaders of Tyria thought putting that twig in charge was a good idea.

The best use of Sylvari is for kindling.

Was Admiral Ackbar evil for leading the Rebel fleet into an ambush?

Ackbar was the first to admit that it was a trap, but it was too late. No one could have known.

Konig Des Todes.2086

Fade.1743:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Windsagio.1340:

Why didn’t Laranthir turn? (We know he’s specifically not corrupted), and why don’t the PC Sylvari turn?

It got hit pretty well above though, it’s pretty clearly supposed to read Trahearne unwittingly led the pact fleet into an ambush

Regardless of protection or not, it was stated that sylvari could not be corrupted by elder dragons due to their natural good will and spirit (atleast from an interview a couple years ago). If that of course changes throughout their lifespan then the likely hood of that happening will change. The teachings of the ventari tablet teach just that, good will and spirit.

This begs the question as to whether Malyck will be corrupt despite lack of pale tree influence as everyone knows he had a very noble personality.

That was more of a hypothesis than an absolute. Dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons.

-Sigh-
Nothing ever said dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons. In fact, Subject Alpha and the entire Crucible of Eternity purpose indicates otherwise.

We don’t know why the sylvari are protected, but the indication is that it is a combination of the Dream (unique to the Pale Tree and her sylvari – Malyck has no Dream connection) and willpower. Per this article, proximity to Mordremoth’s corruption strengthens his ability to overcome their corruption.

Furthermore it is implied that without the Dream, sylvari can be corrupted by ANY Elder Dragon.

Subject Alpha was an Inquest experiment. It is NOT a naturally occurring dragon minion. Therefore, that point is rendered irrelevant. The rest of the Crucible has NO dragon minion hybrids. In fact, hybrids can’t exist.

Sylvari couldn’t become Risen because Zhaitan could only corrupt beings made of flesh. Either living or dead. We’ve yet to see anything turn into Branded since Kralk’s revival. So, there’s a good chance that the Branded were only created when the Brand itself was. Destroyers are made from molten rock and lava…which would…well…be obvious why that doesn’t work. Icebrood have all come from northern ice races (Norn, Kodan, and Quaggan). It can be hypothesized that Jormag can only corrupt living beings that are more accustomed to harsh, cold environments. Otherwise, they’d die during corruption.

the way its worded they were good when they started but the strength of dragon turn them evil so its possible we could face an evil trahearne and or sylvari. wondering how much we can trust canache now. might be as he gets closer he could be turned

He is the oldest of the Pale Tree’s children. I seriously doubt he is easily corrupted.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If I remember correctly, he resigned from the post before fighting Zhaitan — so why is he back to fight Mord’ when he’s suppose to be an “Orr expert”?

This what’s happen when you let “Quinctilius Varus” lead your soldiers.

He never resigned nor was there ever any indication of such.

In fact, during the celebration after Zhaitan’s defeat he outright states having to lead the pact through five more “impossible victories” against the Elder Dragons – right after being sorry he couldn’t join the assault on Zhaitan due to being weakened from casting the cleansing ritual (e.g., why he wasn’t in the Arah story instance).

Exactly! This is what he said;

Trahearne: Well said. And you can rely on those allies to stand by you to the very end. My Wyld Hunt may be over, but the coalition that we’ve build will fight on.
Trahearne: I hereby pledge the entire Pact and all its resources to your task. By the Mother Tree and all who have made the ultimate sacrifice, Zhaitan will fall.

So ok, he gave command to me, but I don’t remember ever giving it back to him or him assuming the role again. From what I understood is that he wish to “lead” as an adviser or strategist instead of as a general. I’m actually glad I didn’t brought him with me against Zhaitan — it would have been a disaster.

ambush = unexpected attack. Seems like an easy enough concept to grasp.

“Right, I read that as “unwittingly led his army into a devastating ambush””

Ditto.

“If I remember correctly, he resigned from the post before fighting Zhaitan — so why is he back to fight Mord’ when he’s suppose to be an “Orr expert”?”

Curious about that, myself. Attending the Summit was one thing – he had clout and dragon experience enough to earn him a seat. But even in Orr, he left military command to his second, the Pact Commander.

“That’s what you get for doing absolutely nothing and stealing the credit in killing Zhaitan!”

Did we play the same game, or are you thinking of Kormir?

Trahearne came to restore Orr. We came to kill the dragon. Together, we led the Pact through the Zhaitan Campaign. When we reached the Source of Orr, Trahearne handed us the army and stayed with his job. And, when we came back?

Marshal Trahearne and every single member of the Pact within Fort Trinity bowed to or saluted the Pact Commander. By which I mean us. NO credit was stolen. Trahearne heals Orr, we kill Zhaitan. Very clear-cut, IMO.

“This begs the question as to whether Malyck will be corrupt despite lack of pale tree influence as everyone knows he had a very noble personality.”

I worry about Malyck, for exactly this reason.

“Furthermore it is implied that without the Dream, sylvari can be corrupted by ANY Elder Dragon.”

I must have missed whatever implied that; I had assumed that they could not be corrupted by the other dragons because they are already dragon minions (they just didn’t know it).

“So ok, he gave command to me, but I don’t remember ever giving it back to him or him assuming the role again.”

If a general gives command of an army to a colonel, does that mean that the general is no longer in a position of authority?

Trahearne did not resign his position. He simply put the Commander, battle-leader and one meant to fight the dragon, in charge.

“I’m actually glad I didn’t brought him with me against Zhaitan — it would have been a disaster.”

He knew it as well, which is why he handed you the army.

“”Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

Hanlon’s razor

I’m 99% sure that sentence was intentionally written to allow both interpretations, so as not to spoil anything.

i think that Marshal Trahearne is protected by his mighty sword
that mother tree have give him

am more worried about caith what she might do
but you never no

might be possible that Marshal Trahearne will fight Rytlock
both have a very powerful weapon ?

Trahearne is a plant. He has cabbage instead of brain. Of course he will lead people to their death. He has absolutely no idea how to command.

It’d make complete sense.

Trahearne, practitioner of the dark arts, has spent a great deal of time obsessing about and studying the Dragons. I can see him being corrupted, in spite of the Pale Tree’s protection, because he looked too long into dark things in hopes of fighting them.

Kinda like the fall of Saruman.

No. If an individual has locked his mind to the Dream or another Elder Dragon, it becomes free of its influence.

Only Sylvari that did not bind themselves with the dream got affected, so other Sylvari tribes are probably the big danger group here.

Derigar.7810:

No. If an individual has locked his mind to the Dream or another Elder Dragon, it becomes free of its influence.

Only Sylvari that did not bind themselves with the dream got affected, so other Sylvari tribes are probably the big danger group here.

How do you define this locking of your mind to the Dream?

The reason I ask, is that we have examples of characters who were part of the Dream, but later make the choice to switch to the Nightmare Court. Or is the Nightmare Court still considered part of the dream, just the dark side? I figured the existence of the Nightmare Court was Mordremoth’s influence reaching through the dream to ensnare some. I’m not really a lorehound, so I only know what I’ve encountered through personal story.

At any rate, insisting on some sort of “once and for all” sure is a limiting choice for story possibilities. I’d always hoped to that Caithe’s insistence that no one can ever be brought back from Nightmare is her personal bias, and not objective canon.

After all, imagine Star Wars if no one could ever be brought back from the Dark Side of the force.

Redemption stories are the most powerful, and the choice to stay good is always more interesting if there is still a chance to fall.

Gibson.4036:

Derigar.7810:

No. If an individual has locked his mind to the Dream or another Elder Dragon, it becomes free of its influence.

Only Sylvari that did not bind themselves with the dream got affected, so other Sylvari tribes are probably the big danger group here.

How do you define this locking of your mind to the Dream?

The reason I ask, is that we have examples of characters who were part of the Dream, but later make the choice to switch to the Nightmare Court. Or is the Nightmare Court still considered part of the dream, just the dark side? I figured the existence of the Nightmare Court was Mordremoth’s influence reaching through the dream to ensnare some. I’m not really a lorehound, so I only know what I’ve encountered through personal story.

At any rate, insisting on some sort of “once and for all” sure is a limiting choice for story possibilities. I’d always hoped to that Caithe’s insistence that no one can ever be brought back from Nightmare is her personal bias, and not objective canon.

After all, imagine Star Wars if no one could ever be brought back from the Dark Side of the force.

Redemption stories are the most powerful, and the choice to stay good is always more interesting if there is still a chance to fall.

I dont think the nightmare are part of the dream anymore, What they interpret as the Dream may very well be nothing more than the Dragons influence on them since they arent part of the Pale Trees Dream, they could very well have done what the soundless did and turned(More than once its hinted that the nightmare court raid Soundless villages. Hell, they even have a heart quest dedicated to it). Think about, what do the nightmare court want above all else? They want to see the pale tree destroyed. You know who else does? The Dragon Mordremoth, as its stopping probably the most powerful of his minions from being under his control. Oh! Something else i just thought of, the nightmare tree, in the twilight arbor looks in coloration very close to one of Mordremoths minions, i know its older than his new ones and looks slightly different but still!

In the video they show Faolin fighting the pact troops, so will she come back as a heroine or a villain? She was the leader of the nightmare court after-all, and Caithe chased her out of Twilight Arbor. Maybe she found the dragon and her lack of protection allowed the dragon to take her over. Perhaps maybe she found the dragon and realized how wrong she was, when it came to the pale tree and she fled, but was attacked by the Pack for looking like the Sylvari who turned on the battlefield after the ambush.

Its her im more interested in than Traehearne, i dont think hes dead, and i dont think he will have turned. Maybe i will be proven wrong. But i would rather we find him alive and fine and have to help him, and get to see Faolin again and maybe get to see her redemption if thats what they have planned!

I recall one person posting that in a video doing a dev-guided playthrough of the new demo zone at REZZED, a dev commented something to the effect of the Nightmare Court having some sort of immunity to Mordremoth. I spent 40 minutes watching and didn’t find the comment (though I did skip the PS part at the beginning because this was pre-Stress and I wanted to experience that story myself).

If anyone has the exact quote I’d love to see it.

Fade.1743:

Subject Alpha was an Inquest experiment. It is NOT a naturally occurring dragon minion. Therefore, that point is rendered irrelevant. The rest of the Crucible has NO dragon minion hybrids. In fact, hybrids can’t exist.

The reason we haven’t seen cross-corrupted dragon minions out in the wild is because so far no minions of different dragons have confronted one another…as far as we know, anyway. Until that small Mordrem invasion in Iron Marches introduced in one of the LW Season 2 patches, minions of different Elder Dragons were never seen in the same area, and even now the Mordrem and the Branded have yet to make contact to show what exactly would happen if they met. Whether they choose to attack and corrupt one another is unclear but it’s at least possible thanks to Subject Alpha proving that a single being can in fact hold multiple dragon corruption simultaneously.

Sylvari couldn’t become Risen because Zhaitan could only corrupt beings made of flesh. Either living or dead.

Zhaitan can actually corrupt more than just beings made of flesh. We see corrupted stumps in Sparkfly Fen, and one heart is all about clearing them to help slow the spread of Risen corruption.

If you play a sylvari character during LW Season 2, you learn from the Pale Tree in the Rallying Call episode that she has actively been shielding her children from dragons’ attempts at corruption.

The Shadow of the Dragon specifically targeted the Grove during World Summit to injure the Pale Tree enough and thus weaken her protection over the sylvari so Mordremoth could have an easier time taking the sylvari over. This is further supported by a note found on Aerin’s body after defeating him in the “Cornered” episode earlier in Season 2 which foreshadows the aforementioned revelation. The note says “…leader will die. The rest will fall in line. We will not fail.” The leader ended up being the sylvari leader, Pale Tree.

We’ve yet to see anything turn into Branded since Kralk’s revival. So, there’s a good chance that the Branded were only created when the Brand itself was.

Creatures still turn into Branded as seen in the Personal Story’s ogre racial sympathy storyline, beginning with Untamed Wilds. The events of that story take place during the PS which takes place two years before present day LW Season 2 storyline. Note that Lagula, the ogre, is using the present tense in the explanation, which means creatures are still being turned into Branded. We even get to witness the tragedy of it first-hand when we find out that Uldek, an ogre chieftain, has recently been turned into one of the Branded, as explained by the ogre Jonkor.

Destroyers are made from molten rock and lava…which would…well…be obvious why that doesn’t work.

It was stated in an interview by the writers that Primordus can in fact corrupt living beings but prefers not to for whatever reason. As seen with Zhaitan’s example above, dragons can corrupt many things and beings with their magic, so it’s possible that a Destroyer could be turned into another dragon’s minion if it was exposed to said dragon’s power.

Icebrood have all come from northern ice races (Norn, Kodan, and Quaggan). It can be hypothesized that Jormag can only corrupt living beings that are more accustomed to harsh, cold environments. Otherwise, they’d die during corruption.

This seems unlikely. As a being turns into Icebrood, they’re encased in ice and their flesh rots away. The process is best seen with Sons of Svanir who have models in various stages of corruption, some looking more Norn and others looking more Icebrood-ish. Whether the victim is unaccustomed to cold environment or not won’t matter because they will still transform and become a minion regardless. Dragon magic will keep them functional, and the only difference is how much magic a dragon places into a minion during corruption which will determine how intelligent and powerful said minion will become after it has been “reborn”.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Trahearne is a plant. He has cabbage instead of brain. Of course he will lead people to their death.

Kind of interesting then that Laranthir of the Wild, a sylvari who also has a “cabbage brain” is the Vigil’s second-in-command, approved by General Soulkeeper herself. Then again, one could argue that the Vigil consists of mostly brainless people, so maybe a cabbage brain fit in without too much of a hassle?

Derigar.7810:

No. If an individual has locked his mind to the Dream or another Elder Dragon, it becomes free of its influence.

Unless all those sylvari who turned against the Pact during the Episode 8 ending cinematic were Soundless, what you said is no longer the case. As long as the Pale Tree is still in a half-comatose state, her protection over her sylvari will weaken, thus leaving them susceptible to Mordremoth’s siren song (which becomes more and more alluring the closer sylvari get to it).

What remains to be seen is why only some and not all sylvari were affected since we can see Laranthir and the Pale Reavers still being on the good guys’ side in HoT demo while Mordrem Guards go to great lengths to capture uncorrupted sylvari to take them somewhere to be “turned”. Willpower has been stated as a possibility, but that seems like too simple an answer, but we’ll (hopefully) find out for sure once we get our hands on HoT.

Gibson.4036:

I figured the existence of the Nightmare Court was Mordremoth’s influence reaching through the dream to ensnare some. I’m not really a lorehound, so I only know what I’ve encountered through personal story.

At any rate, insisting on some sort of “once and for all” sure is a limiting choice for story possibilities. I’d always hoped to that Caithe’s insistence that no one can ever be brought back from Nightmare is her personal bias, and not objective canon.

We don’t know yet if Nightmare is Mordremoth’s influence or not. They do seem to have a connection as the Shadow of the Dragon, Mordy’s champion, was able to infiltrate the Dream by manifesting through Nightmare.

However, the Nightmare Court remain oblivious of the sylvari’s true origin; Scarlet claimed she knew Caithe’s secret which even Faolain didn’t know, and we learned later that that secret was what Wynne told Caithe. If Faolain, Grand Duchess of NC, didn’t know the truth, then it’s unlikely any of her minions did either, or the news would’ve spread by now.

It was said in an article or interview that the NC are just as opposed to Elder Dragons as Dreamer sylvari are, they just seem to be focusing on changing the sylvari’s outlook on themselves and the world first before committing themselves to battling the Dragons. If NC knew the truth about Mordremoth and/or they were already its corrupted minions, surely we would’ve heard them yell “Hail Mordremoth!” or something of the sort by now since dragon minions are extremely fanatical towards their dragon master.

It’ll be interesting to see where NC will stand in HoT. I personally hope that at least some of them become “enemy mine”, antagonists who work with us in teeth-clenched teamwork, or at least oppose the Mordrem on their own terms. NC want power and change the rules, so the old guard of NC wouldn’t necessarily want to switch one master (Pale Tree) to another (Mordremoth). I can imagine some of them willingly joining the Dragon, though, believing it to be sylvari destiny, but if all of them turn face, that will undermine the lore of an interesting antagonist faction and will diminish the character of Faolain greatly. If anything, I’d imagine us and Faolain having to work together out of necessity at some point, and her eventually betraying us in a pivotal moment to attempt to usurp Mordremoth’s power for herself. But I guess we’ll see what the writers have in mind for the Grand Duchess; I just hope she won’t make a cameo only to be killed by us after all this juicy buildup.

Dante.1763:

Think about, what do the nightmare court want above all else? They want to see the pale tree destroyed.

Actually, they want to influence the Dream by hurting others among other things and hope that if they do this long enough, the Nightmare’s influence on the Dream will eventually steer sylvari away from Ventari’s teachings and allow the race to make its own judgements without outside influences and morals that had been instilled on them.

However, it was indeed stated in the Malyck plot in the Personal Story that if NC learned of the existence of Malyck’s tree, they could burn down the Pale Tree in an instant without worry and focus their attempts on this other Pale Tree instead as that tree might be easier to sway on their way of thinking now that they know more than one tree exists out there. This is why it was imperative that we prevented NC from learning Malyck’s secret back then.

Dante.1763:

I hope not. Unlike 90% of the players it seems in this game, i like Traeherne, the stuff that people spread about him isnt right. Sure hes boring, but i like him more than almost all of Destinys edge, and a few of DE2 characters.

I agree with this, cept’ the boring bit. He’s ‘human’.

He began as a shy and unsure character that matured into a great leader under the influence and guidance of our PC.

Most of DE were already characters that were established a certain way (though we also played a major role in healing old wounds and getting everyone’s issues sorted).

Trahearne was a character that grew with us and because of us. He’s a cool guy. I don’t get people who say “he stole my credit”, etc. He’s a humble, reserved fellow.

He often goes out of his way to say “this only happened because of you PC”. I mean, in what way is that “stealing” your credit?

A little grim and serious sometimes, but you know, he’s a necro. He has a lighter side too. Trahearne has some fantastic depth of character.

I finished up my PS with him. He’s a cool guy in my book and I hope he’s alright so we can meet up again to go all Zhaitan on this Mordremoth fool.

Thanks guys for your feedback! My mind is clearer now although I think this sentence is not 100% sure what it means exactly. Maybe the devs wanted to give us something to speculate

However, I’d like to see Trahearne corrupted by Mordremoth because that would be very surprising and maybe we will fight him one day, it’s very unlikely as you proved me though because he has the strong protection of the mothertree for being a firstborn. But I think Mordremoth could now be much stronger than the mothertree. Even just a champion of him damaged the mothertree so that she “passed out” let alone what he himself could do to the mothertree and whole tyria…

Sodeni.6041:

Thanks guys for your feedback! My mind is clearer now although I think this sentence is not 100% sure what it means exactly. Maybe the devs wanted to give us something to speculate

However, I’d like to see Trahearne corrupted by Mordremoth because that would be very surprising and maybe we will fight him one day, it’s very unlikely as you proved me though because he has the strong protection of the mothertree for being a firstborn. But I think Mordremoth could now be much stronger than the mothertree. Even just a champion of him damaged the mothertree so that she “passed out” let alone what he himself could do to the mothertree and whole tyria…

It actually wouldnt be surprising…almost everyone in game ive talked to things hes going to be corrupted…it would be more of a surprise to people if he wasnt corrupted…

I think Trahearne was well intentioned, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t being influenced much more subtly.

Either way, Trahearn is going to make a great outdoor necro-themed Raid-Boss .

Sylvari is a playable race and there are no factions (atm) in the game so not all the sylvaris are evil but i hope we can kill trahearne. I hate that annoying character

McWolfy.5924:

Sylvari is a playable race and there are no factions (atm) in the game so not all the sylvaris are evil but i hope we can kill trahearne. I hate that annoying character

Yeah, that is true. Many people would like to see Trahearne die. So a corrupted version of him would make a great boss to kill

Pretty Pixie.8603:

“”Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

Hanlon’s razor

You beat me to it. Trahearne isn’t evil, just stupid. Let’s look at the record.

Here we are with Camp Resolve under attack. There is a torch and a signal fire to call in an airstrike. The only purpose of this torch is to light that signal fire. Did Trahearne have the torch placed on a bracket next to the fire it is meant to light? No, for some inexplicable reason it is halfway across the camp.

Did Trahearne ask us to light the fire and call in the airstrike when the mordrem were massed at the gates, making them an easy target? No, for some inexplicable reason we had to let the mordrem into the camp and let them slaughter us freely before taking effective action.

Now, the fleet with the instant “I Win” button must have been right on top of the camp the whole time because the bombs fell within seconds of the signal being given. They must have seen everything that was happening, yet did nothing. Could it be that some brain-dead Marshal gave them orders to hold back unless they received a signal, regardless of any situation they could see developing? Or did he just pick ship commanders with no initiative and even less intelligence than he had?

Well, we saved the base anyway, enabling the fleet to start its mission. Wait. Where exactly IS Mordremoth? There is no indication that the Pact has any specific information. Trahearne guesses that it’s somewhere to the west. So apparently his great plan of battle is to take a huge fleet and carpet-bomb the entire Maguuma jungle down to the bedrock, killing everything that lives, hoping that the Elder Dragon gets caught in the carnage. Brilliant. Send that cabbage a recording of “Ride of the Valkyries” and let the fun begin.

Honestly, it’s been hard for me from the beginning of the Mordremoth story to imagine that this is the same sylvari who organized the building of Fort Trinity and planned the multi-pronged campaign to get us into Orr and reach Arah. The same sylvari who was so careful about gathering intelligence on Zhaitan’s location, methods, and vulnerabilities. The same sylvari who sent or led us on multiple missions to check out the shipment of corpses and the manufacture of risen, the activities of important lieutenants such as the Eye and Mouth, etc. The same sylvari who tried to hamper and shut down Zhaitan’s activities at every turn, weakening it before starting the final offensive. It almost seems as if his cabbage brain got coleslawed by the cleansing ritual or something.

Kossage.9072:

However, the Nightmare Court remain oblivious of the sylvari’s true origin; Scarlet claimed she knew Caithe’s secret which even Faolain didn’t know, and we learned later that that secret was what Wynne told Caithe. If Faolain, Grand Duchess of NC, didn’t know the truth, then it’s unlikely any of her minions did either, or the news would’ve spread by now.

It was said in an article or interview that the NC are just as opposed to Elder Dragons as Dreamer sylvari are, they just seem to be focusing on changing the sylvari’s outlook on themselves and the world first before committing themselves to battling the Dragons. If NC knew the truth about Mordremoth and/or they were already its corrupted minions, surely we would’ve heard them yell “Hail Mordremoth!” or something of the sort by now since dragon minions are extremely fanatical towards their dragon master.

I wasn’t thinking that the Nightmare Court were conscious servants of Mordremoth, just that the existence of the Nightmare Court may be Mordremoth’s influence permeating the Pale Tree’s protection of her children to erode the influence of Ventari’s teaching and bend them toward rebellion and pain.

BrettM.9062:

It almost seems as if his cabbage brain got coleslawed by the cleansing ritual or something.

Or perhaps Mordremoth’s corruption is leading him to act against the best interests of the Pact? Is it possible Trahearne was corrupted long ago, and his success against Zhaitan was Mordremoth using the Pact to take out the rival dragon? Now that Zhaitan is down, Mordremoth had to dispose of his tool before it was turned back against him.

BrettM.9062:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

“”Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

Hanlon’s razor

You beat me to it. Trahearne isn’t evil, just stupid. Let’s look at the record.

Here we are with Camp Resolve under attack. There is a torch and a signal fire to call in an airstrike. The only purpose of this torch is to light that signal fire. Did Trahearne have the torch placed on a bracket next to the fire it is meant to light? No, for some inexplicable reason it is halfway across the camp.

Did Trahearne ask us to light the fire and call in the airstrike when the mordrem were massed at the gates, making them an easy target? No, for some inexplicable reason we had to let the mordrem into the camp and let them slaughter us freely before taking effective action.

Now, the fleet with the instant “I Win” button must have been right on top of the camp the whole time because the bombs fell within seconds of the signal being given. They must have seen everything that was happening, yet did nothing. Could it be that some brain-dead Marshal gave them orders to hold back unless they received a signal, regardless of any situation they could see developing? Or did he just pick ship commanders with no initiative and even less intelligence than he had?

Well, we saved the base anyway, enabling the fleet to start its mission. Wait. Where exactly IS Mordremoth? There is no indication that the Pact has any specific information. Trahearne guesses that it’s somewhere to the west. So apparently his great plan of battle is to take a huge fleet and carpet-bomb the entire Maguuma jungle down to the bedrock, killing everything that lives, hoping that the Elder Dragon gets caught in the carnage. Brilliant. Send that cabbage a recording of “Ride of the Valkyries” and let the fun begin.

Honestly, it’s been hard for me from the beginning of the Mordremoth story to imagine that this is the same sylvari who organized the building of Fort Trinity and planned the multi-pronged campaign to get us into Orr and reach Arah. The same sylvari who was so careful about gathering intelligence on Zhaitan’s location, methods, and vulnerabilities. The same sylvari who sent or led us on multiple missions to check out the shipment of corpses and the manufacture of risen, the activities of important lieutenants such as the Eye and Mouth, etc. The same sylvari who tried to hamper and shut down Zhaitan’s activities at every turn, weakening it before starting the final offensive. It almost seems as if his cabbage brain got coleslawed by the cleansing ritual or something.

Given all that careful planning from him in the past, the only sensible conclusion isn’t that he suddenly has the dumb. It points to him indeed being under Mordremoth’s control and masterminding both the decimation of our ground and air forces in two quick strikes. Pity that, he kinda grew on me throughout S2 (ha!).

BrettM.9062:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

“”Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

Hanlon’s razor

You beat me to it. Trahearne isn’t evil, just stupid. Let’s look at the record.

… It almost seems as if his cabbage brain got coleslawed by the cleansing ritual or something.

This could be an indication of Mordremoth’s corruption, or at least influence.

Trahearne may only have been so adept and skillful in his leadership against Zhaitan because Mordremoth wanted Zhaitan out of the way for Its ascension. Mordremoth could have been manipulating Trahearne the entire time. First with the Wyld Hunt and his desire to learn all things Orr/Zhaitan. Then with tactical insight beyond his own knowlege. Finally, with Zhaitan out of the way, Mordremoth could have infuenced Trahearne into believing It was far less prepared for the assault thus leading to Trahearne’s brashness and over confidence.

I won’t go as far as to say Trahearne is corrupted. My take is that the influence was more subtle and these latest decisions are, in point of fact, the fault of the PC. Had the PC been available to act as Trahearne’s sounding board and as Commander of the Pact, this tragedy might have been forestalled and the danger the Sylvari posed might have been discovered in time to stop or at least mitigate it’s impact.

That same brashness and impatience could also have been an artifact of the Pale Tree’s current state and had She not been pre-occupied with Her own well being, trahearne may have been more able to see the dangers that lie ahead.

To be completely honest, I’m not a fan of Trahearne. I do not think he’s evil but he may become an interesting character study in HoT as the writers explore what influence the ED have on the denizens of Tyria.

Cherokeewill.7504:

That same brashness and impatience could also have been an artifact of the Pale Tree’s current state and had She not been pre-occupied with Her own well being, trahearne may have been more able to see the dangers that lie ahead.

Does this, then, implicate Caithe as well? If she had been more of a team player, rather than grabbing the egg and running, the PC wouldn’t have been constantly running off on that tangent rather than being closely involved with the Pact.

Then again, if she hadn’t, and those ships launched anyway, the PC would now be in the smoking ruins of the fleet along with everyone else.

Pardon me for not reading the entire thread before uttering my two copper, but I’d like to state I’m willing to accept pretty much any revisioni…. retconning, as long as I can finally fell the BToGA (Blather Tree of Greater Annoyance).

TIMBER!!1eleven

More like unwittingly. Marshal T ain’t no bad guy and he ain’t no glory hog.

Dragon minions HAVE come into contact with each other: Sylvari with the Risen. No Sylvari were corrupted, showing they do have some form of protection.

On a related note, all Sylvari player characters and Caithe were given the Wyld Hunt to kill Zhaitan. Was this Mordremoth’s influence?

Gibson.4036:

Cherokeewill.7504:

That same brashness and impatience could also have been an artifact of the Pale Tree’s current state and had She not been pre-occupied with Her own well being, trahearne may have been more able to see the dangers that lie ahead.

Does this, then, implicate Caithe as well? If she had been more of a team player, rather than grabbing the egg and running, the PC wouldn’t have been constantly running off on that tangent rather than being closely involved with the Pact.

Then again, if she hadn’t, and those ships launched anyway, the PC would now be in the smoking ruins of the fleet along with everyone else.

I would say Caithe and the Pale Tree both fouled up. Either of them could have taken Trahearne aside and quietly briefed him on the potential problem, long before the fleet was ready. Both knew he was about to take the Pact, with a large contingent of sylvari troops, into battle against Mordremoth. Both knew the true origin of the sylvari. As a Firstborn on the front lines, he was entitled to know the risk. It was unconscionable to leave him in ignorance.

dietzero.3514:

On a related note, all Sylvari player characters and Caithe were given the Wyld Hunt to kill Zhaitan. Was this Mordremoth’s influence?

Caithe’s Wyld Hunt was not to kill Zhaitan. In fact, if you pay attention to the conversations among the Firstborn while using the first memory seed, you learn that she didn’t know exactly what her Wyld Hunt was to be. She only knew that it involved Elder Dragons. She figured she’d know it when she saw it. But there was also an interesting little exchange that suggested that it is possible for one to misinterpret one’s Wyld Hunt.

It seems possible that seeing Glint’s egg triggered her Wyld Hunt, and she now knows (or thinks she knows) exactly what it is to be. But, does that little throwaway comment heard earlier hint that she’s working under a misperception?