Guild Wars 2

Ok so, correct me if I’m wrong but it seems to me that most, if not all, consider Revenant in its current condition is pretty dam OP right? I mean, of course we expect changes but that will depend on Anet how much “balancing” they will actually do, but I sense that it won’t be as big of a change as let’s say, Beta Mesmer vs Current Mesmer. But, sure, okay it’s too early to jump the gun, just my first impressions.

IF, however, what Revenant we get will be almost close to what we have now, not to mention their Specialization, does this mean vanilla classes will get outdated by respective specializations of each class? What I mean is, every time I argue to someone that Revenant is OP, their counter is that class specializations will make up for it. Will that actually be the end result? Or will we get a pretty hefty buff/balance on current classes? If it’s the latter, I expect some moderate changes and not just a brushover on current class trait/skills. For example, all the downed traits on Mesmer, no one needs that AT ALL, but what is the possibility of those traits actually getting replaced by something better?

Assuming such scenery, yeah I think that the base classes will be overshadowed by the specializations.

But I strongly believe that Ravs will be tuned down in some aspects and specializations will just bring more flavor than simply be better compared to the base classes.

I’m assuming there will be updates to the base classes. With the new tech for fields and aoes surely some of that will be brought to the old classes and not just specs. Elsewise lol.

Which does worries me because how much exactly will base classes get treated. Only Anet will know =/

What Anet is aiming for is that vanilla professions will be just as strong as specilizations. This is also to keep it balanced between players who own HoT and players who don’t own HoT i.e. those with HoT have more options but not stronger options. Whether it will actually be balanced however remains to be seen.

I wouldn’t say overpowered, I would say interesting. So many of those skills and traits do things that, regardless of their power level, just look more interesting to use, play alongside, and play against; and I’m sure we would all like to see the vanilla classes improved in that direction.

I didn’t really play the stress test long but I noticed pretty early that revs seemed a little over the top. It made me think that the specializations will also need to be pretty crazy to keep the current classes on par with the revenant. I be getting the expansion anyway so it doesn’t bother me.

TL’DR, jsut read the title….so Specializations vs Vanilla huh. I say Chocolate>Revenant>Vanilla….there you go laters.

Basket of Boxes.1976:

I didn’t really play the stress test long but I noticed pretty early that revs seemed a little over the top. It made me think that the specializations will also need to be pretty crazy to keep the current classes on par with the revenant. I be getting the expansion anyway so it doesn’t bother me.

Exactly. It would be bad if in the real thing, the only way to match with Revenant (not even considering their specialization) would be through specializations.

Caelus.7139:

Exactly. It would be bad if in the real thing, the only way to match with Revenant (not even considering their specialization) would be through specializations.

PVE combat was dumbed down for the stress test, so the mobs you fought where weaker. Do not forget that!

J envy.5270:

TL’DR, jsut read the title….so Specializations vs Vanilla huh. I say Chocolate>Revenant>Vanilla….there you go laters.

What kind of baskin robins serves revenants…

Revenant… Doesnt really seem that powerful actually tbh. Their damage is lacking, their healing is relatively lacking (actual realism of using their heals is lower than many classes, 2 heals doesn’t make them twice as good at healing). They have like 1 really useful utility per legend and are forced into others because they are all bound together. No weapon swap so if you use hammer your damage (so far) pretty much perma-blows.

They have a few decently strong skills (Banish Enchantment, Mist Wall) but beyond that…. I really haven’t seen much that felt like it would be that potent in pvp.

In pve having revenants juggle their Jalis elite might be a thing, but frankly it would slow down the whole process just to play it safe, and that’s if it’s perfectly executed.

What exactly are people finding so OP? O.o

ronpierce.2760:

Revenant… Doesnt really seem that powerful actually tbh. Their damage is lacking, their healing is relatively lacking (actual realism of using their heals is lower than many classes, 2 heals doesn’t make them twice as good at healing). They have like 1 really useful utility per legend and are forced into others because they are all bound together. No weapon swap so if you use hammer your damage (so far) pretty much perma-blows.

They have a few decently strong skills (Banish Enchantment, Mist Wall) but beyond that…. I really haven’t seen much that felt like it would be that potent in pvp.

In pve having revenants juggle their Jalis elite might be a thing, but frankly it would slow down the whole process just to play it safe, and that’s if it’s perfectly executed.

What exactly are people finding so OP? O.o

The revenant we played in the beta had full celestial gear and no power or condition duration from traits. Of course the damage was lacking.

Every single utility we’ve seen so far are decent. The healing skills are meh, retaliation is a kitten boon.

The elites are fantastic, both visually and functionally.

Kraljevo.2801:

ronpierce.2760:

Revenant… Doesnt really seem that powerful actually tbh. Their damage is lacking, their healing is relatively lacking (actual realism of using their heals is lower than many classes, 2 heals doesn’t make them twice as good at healing). They have like 1 really useful utility per legend and are forced into others because they are all bound together. No weapon swap so if you use hammer your damage (so far) pretty much perma-blows.

They have a few decently strong skills (Banish Enchantment, Mist Wall) but beyond that…. I really haven’t seen much that felt like it would be that potent in pvp.

In pve having revenants juggle their Jalis elite might be a thing, but frankly it would slow down the whole process just to play it safe, and that’s if it’s perfectly executed.

What exactly are people finding so OP? O.o

The revenant we played in the beta had full celestial gear and no power or condition duration from traits. Of course the damage was lacking.

Every single utility we’ve seen so far are decent. The healing skills are meh, retaliation is a kitten boon.

The elites are fantastic, both visually and functionally.

Zerker isn’t going to make the damage the hammer was doing suddenly amazing. Beyond that, its not really supposed to, I mean its a ranged utility weapon from what I can tell, but that’s sort of my point, so far there’s really no reason to make OP claims, regardless of what you were missing, what was shown wasn’t OP or at least couldn’t be claimed as such yet.

The utilities, sure you may call “decent” but decent isn’t OP. I can go down the list.

Both heals – Meh.

Forced Engagement – High energy cost, taunt also slows, so it doesn’t even have much synergy with confusion-taunting. It’s “okay” at best. Might be helpful to clutch-pull something off of a friend in PVE.

Vengeful Hammers – Is pretty much a joke.

Inspiring Reinforcement – This could be okay. People need to remember that stability was changed so its “perma stability” only means so much, but it’s not a ‘bad’ skill.

Banish Enchantment – Seems pretty kitten amazing, I really can’t deny that. A spammable aoe Purge seems fairly legit. I’d suspect a change eventually, though. Too good to be true.

Unyielding Anguish – It’s… Unique, I’ll give it that. The condition it gives sort of hurts its mobility usefulness, though (as a side note).

Pain Absorption – It’s basically necessary, to be perfectly honest. At this point, though, it seems like you’ll be spending a lot of resources and time working around the stuff you end up stacking on yourself.

Overall, there are a few gems, it LOOKS cool, and its certainly not “cut and paste”, but I’d be wary of using the term “OP”. Different doesn’t have to mean over powered, in fact, I wish people wouldn’t say it because homogenization in MMOs tends to be a real issue.

What amaze me is that you all seem to see “specialization” as an improved form of the current profession (let’s say vanilla).

This is not what a specialization should be. A specialization make you better at one thing most likely by making you worse at other.

Lol, do people seariously believe in here, that the Revenant in that Demo will be exatly like this in the final result also too?

bwahahahahah

too funny.

Be asured, this won’t definetely be the case.
You played in the Demon just a Revenant, that has only less than half of its options testable, due to only 2 out of 5 attributes being known so far and useable and their traits that come alogn with them.
Before we get to play the final version of the Revenants in HoT with access to all their Skills, Weapons and Traits, we will most likely see first 1 big Balancing Patch, which will change alot of Skills and Traits based on the introduction of the Revenant, the new Defiance System and all the new Skills that all Classes will get due to their Specializations, which will have al together a huge impact ion the whole Game Balance.

Anet would be total dumb, if they won’t do a fitting Balance Patch before of the release of HoT to prepare the game for all those tons of changes that HoT will bring to the Game Balance Table with the Specializations, Revenants and lots of new Weapon Skills with alot of unforseeable new Build Combinations which Anet can’t know yet, how extremely well some of them might synergize together with the new Specializations and Traits ect..

ALot of the Revenant Skills are also clearly too overpowered and need to get toned down before the release of HoT and on another side not, what has been mentioned here also is, all enemies in the Stress Test were WILLINGLY weaker, than they will be later in the final product.

SO don’t be surprised, when you think now after that little beta test, that the Wyvern was “too easy” and later in the final produc,t the Wyvern will eat you alive in no time making you all QQ about, how hard the battle out of a sudden is while you underestimated the battle due to your experiences from the beta test.

This beta stress test wasn’t made to entertain people and to show them, how the end product will be exactly, because the end product may be perhaps still a year away from us until it gets released, who knows that …
Fact is, the difficulty of the demo wasn’kittens final form, it was reduced willingly for the stress test, because the main focus of a stress test is to see, how the performance of Hot is running so far under heavy pressure under situations, which the devs can’t simulate alone by themself, where they need simply alot of players to get metrics and results for further development decisions ect.
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To get on topic.
Specializations won’t be more powerful/better, than the Main Professions
They will be same as powerful, just with the differenc,e that they gameplay desings will be different, by changing out F-Skill Mechanics, having different Weapon Skills and access to a Weapon, that the Main Profession normally can’t use. they wil lhave different Traits and Utility Skills as also a unique Healing/Elite Skills that only they can use.

Nothing of that makes Specializations more powerful, than the Main Professions, it adds to them just only new Build Options, that only they can use. and you can quickly change your Specialization and and get back to your Main Profession whenver you want when you are not currently in a battle.
So you can swap out your build same as easily, like swapping out Utility Skills ect. while not being in combat.

In regard of Style and presentation, I think the Specializations will have later the same quality together with the Main Professions with the help of the Balance Patch, like the Revenants.

ANet is introducing new Skill Mechanics and Conditions and we can I think sure about it, that ANet won’t forget these improvements to include also within the old Main Professions and their Specializations.

So we will surely see with the Balance Patch receive all other Professions/Specialization surely too KSills, that will be after the Patch able to cause then Provoke or Slow or give Resistance, what they weren’t able to do before, because Anet added/changed effects to them for Class Balancing Reasons

As we will surely see also some older skills get changed to receive these kind of new Skill Effects, like that some older Skilsl will receive that new Cascade Effect.

People should chill more and just wait, until the Expansion is ready I think…
But I guess people always start making such kind of threads only due to the lack of information. Would be nice if ANet would start finalyl with giving us a first blogpost about the Specializations so that we get more food for thought, but throughts, that aren’t based just merely only on useless speculations, but rather on facts that come from an official source.

Revenant doesn’t seem OP at all, people keep saying that but I don’t see how it’s true – it’s different but being different doesn’t make it stronger. It’s kind of hard to compare any classes side by side too when 9/10 players chose revenant for the demo and beta so they could experience the novelty factor. I made a warrior in the beta though and I can say I out-damaged the revenant quite considerably (without as much utility or defense).

Dante.1763:

PVE combat was dumbed down for the stress test, so the mobs you fought where weaker. Do not forget that!

No it wasn’t? I made a warrior for my beta character and it performed no differently than my warrior in the vanilla game (except for having celestial gear without runes of strength, so didn’t quite wrack up as much might as my warrior does).

Cuddy.6247:

No it wasn’t? I made a warrior for my beta character and it performed no differently than my warrior in the vanilla game (except for having celestial gear without runes of strength, so didn’t quite wrack up as much might as my warrior does).

Yes it was. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Feedback-on-HoT-Stress-Test-merged/page/3#post4915383

Dante.1763:

Cuddy.6247:

No it wasn’t? I made a warrior for my beta character and it performed no differently than my warrior in the vanilla game (except for having celestial gear without runes of strength, so didn’t quite wrack up as much might as my warrior does).

Yes it was. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Feedback-on-HoT-Stress-Test-merged/page/3#post4915383

That implies more of a difficulty in encounters, not the enemies themselves. A smaller platform or the wyvern having some adds isn’t a difficulty curve, it’s a completely revisited encounter altogether. I’m sure what we saw is going to be pretty standard, except with more adds and different platforms of engagement rather than a real sense of “difficulty” from the enemies themselves.

Colin did state in an interview that they will be looking at the base professions and re balancing them for HoT.

Jump to 4:45 for his specific answer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG5oUKqbIVM

Whether or not that means they get new traits, revamped skills, or just become more powerful in general is all up to Anet. So in all honestly all we can do is just have faith and wait.

Zelkovan.2630:

Whether or not that means they get new traits

I thought it was already confirmed that the only the old professions wouldn’t be getting anything new, aside from specializations?

or just become more powerful in general

I hope not. The entire game is balanced based on how powerful the professions are now. I’d rather have anything new be as powerful as the old than the old being brought to the level of the new.

revamped skills

This together with revamped traits is what I hope for and what I think is most likely.

Specializations are alternatives, not Vertical progression. This has all already been discussed pretty openly. Specializations are “a new way to play existing classes”. They’re alternatives. Now, balance may dictate that the new way to play is superior, but that doesn’t mean it was designed to shut anything else out. You’ll have some new abilities to play with and a (if what has been gathered so far is correct) a new trait line, which replaces an old one. This alone means the old base class still has something unique to specializations, and specializations just open more new options.

That said, specializations are a first batch. The idea is each class will eventually have several specializations, so initially, yes, a specialization may seem to have more options (gaining skills and weapons) over the base. But over time specializations will become a choice of give and take.

Moral of the story, expect (at least for a little while) the base classes to be a little underwhelming to the specialization because they have new shiny toys. But I have a feeling some specializations will be casted aside because the initial talents might be too good to give up. (IE if Elementalist lose Arcana trait line, chances are PVP elementalists won’t specialize very often.)

Cuddy.6247:

Dante.1763:

Cuddy.6247:

No it wasn’t? I made a warrior for my beta character and it performed no differently than my warrior in the vanilla game (except for having celestial gear without runes of strength, so didn’t quite wrack up as much might as my warrior does).

Yes it was. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Feedback-on-HoT-Stress-Test-merged/page/3#post4915383

That implies more of a difficulty in encounters, not the enemies themselves. A smaller platform or the wyvern having some adds isn’t a difficulty curve, it’s a completely revisited encounter altogether. I’m sure what we saw is going to be pretty standard, except with more adds and different platforms of engagement rather than a real sense of “difficulty” from the enemies themselves.

I disagree, I think we will see enemies that either hit harder, or have more health and are harder to take down.
This is because of the mordrem specialization tree that is supposed to make fighting mordrem easier as you level.
If putting points into that makes the enemies we fought in that beta any easier we may as well play in a lvl 1 zone.

At Rezzed I tried Revenant and I tought the class was pretty strong.
Stress test I wanted to play something else and I chose Warrior which made me realise how downscaled tha map actually was. I went trough mobs with 2, 3 hits with pre-made shoutbow build.

The map was adjusted to showcase Revenant. Its a sales pitch. High majority of people tried Revenant to check him out which made a lot of OP threads due to lack of material for comparesment.The class at the moment isn’t anything special. I’d go as far and call it Flashy Necromancer of PvE