Guild Wars 2

I don’t often post on forums, but given all the hate for the character, I wanted to state a different opinion, as late as it might be.

I play games for the story. Even when it isn’t terribly original, it’s the journey, the characters and their development that make a story interesting.

Trahearne is one of the things I actually really enjoyed in GW2. While initially a mentor in the Sylvari story arc, Caithe let her past shape her into someone who is less than honest and trustworthy.
On the other hand, Trahearne comes off as calm, kind-hearted, honest and non-judgemental. He is not driven by emotions or his own agendas. He is what I’d expect the eldest of the Sylvari Firstborn to be. A wise and selfless creature, someone you can trust and rely on in any situation.

I enjoyed the friendship and teamwork between him and the player character and the two supporting each other in their new roles. I don’t feel he ‘stole anyone’s glory’. Despite not having ambition, he became what was needed of him, which was admirable. The fact that he was neutral and genuinely selfless made him a great choice to represent a group of all sorts of different people uniting for the good of all.
The Commander handled field work, while the Marshal coordinated and kept the Pact together. They both had their own respective roles and strengths that complimented one another.

He stayed true to his character, even as Marshal. He grew more confident but not self-important. A good leader is aware of his, and his men’s, strengths and weaknesses. Of course he is going to rely on a trustworthy friend for advice and even let him/her lead at times, after being thrown into the role head-first. Admitting his concerns was realistic and honest, and only made me respect the character more. Willingness to learn and being able to acknowledge other people’s strengths is not a flaw, overconfidence is.

I didn’t feel anything was taken from me. Games are player-centric by nature, and I rather enjoyed there being other important characters with their own story, rather than just followers.

In conclusion, there isn’t anything I disliked about the character. His personality, his back-story, his journey and his role in the story were all interesting and well-written, in my opinion. Even the voice acting was appropriate. The cleansing of Orr remains my favourite and most memorable in the game to me.

Which brings me to Heart of Thorns. I don’t know if his death was ‘fan-service to the haters’, but I felt deeply disappointed by the needlessness of it. It felt even worse given that everyone else and their seventh cousin survived. Except for Eir, who’s death really only felt like a random, desperate stunt for impact.

A good story doesn’t need death for impact. On the other hand, badly writing out characters can ruin it. There are countless ways to remove, or re-purpose, characters without killing them. It would have been easy to cater to the haters by giving Trahearne a new role and less screen time. Honestly, he deserved better.

I am grateful the bugged Mordremoth fight spared me from seeing the ending myself (I saw it on YouTube). After 2 fun years, this is where I part ways with GW2. Since the expansion, I only bothered to log on when my friend needed help.

Although, I am going to continue doing more Trahearne fan art as well as a few drawings of my and my friend’s characters (you can find my art on MilaStardream.Webs.com).

I’ve been a gamer since DOS, and in the past decade, GW2 was one of the few non-BioWare games that I liked. I knew nothing about it when my friend got me into it, and I fell in love with the Sylvari race right away.

I’ll always be grateful to ArenaNet for creating such a lovely and unique race, and Trahearne who is now one of my favourite fictional characters of all time.

I feel he is incredibly underrated. And honestly, he deserved better than the terrible HoT ending.

I know this is long. I apologise and thank anyone who bothered to read it. Feel free to flame away, but I really felt like stating a different perspective; one of appreciation and genuine respect, instead of hate.

(PS: I posted this both under ‘Lore’ and ‘Gild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns’ as I am not sure where it should go.)

My wife and I both love Trahearne as a CHARACTER. He is a good character and well made. The problem rises with the narratives team of using him. Trahearne from a NARRATIVE perspective was horrible. His use in the personal story to provide a singular character to lead the pact to allow for the player character to be anyone and “fit” the story was poor story telling in general.

Trahearne was used to pull attention away from the main character and to allow for important events to be pinned on one name and face, which in a narrative is really pretty bad because you have worked hard for that mission, to make it memorable and now it does not matter as the mission has been attributed to Trahearnes Wild Hunt.

TLDR: Trahearne is not a bad character, the design teams decision of his stealing the narrative as a lazy means of telling a story is.

AriLena.7935:

I don’t often post on forums, but given all the hate for the character, I wanted to state a different opinion, as late as it might be.

I play games for the story. Even when it isn’t terribly original, it’s the journey, the characters and their development that make a story interesting.

Trahearne is one of the things I actually really enjoyed in GW2. While initially a mentor in the Sylvari story arc, Caithe let her past shape her into someone who is less than honest and trustworthy.
On the other hand, Trahearne comes off as calm, kind-hearted, honest and non-judgemental. He is not driven by emotions or his own agendas. He is what I’d expect the eldest of the Sylvari Firstborn to be. A wise and selfless creature, someone you can trust and rely on in any situation.

I enjoyed the friendship and teamwork between him and the player character and the two supporting each other in their new roles. I don’t feel he ‘stole anyone’s glory’. Despite not having ambition, he became what was needed of him, which was admirable. The fact that he was neutral and genuinely selfless made him a great choice to represent a group of all sorts of different people uniting for the good of all.
The Commander handled field work, while the Marshal coordinated and kept the Pact together. They both had their own respective roles and strengths that complimented one another.

He stayed true to his character, even as Marshal. He grew more confident but not self-important. A good leader is aware of his, and his men’s, strengths and weaknesses. Of course he is going to rely on a trustworthy friend for advice and even let him/her lead at times, after being thrown into the role head-first. Admitting his concerns was realistic and honest, and only made me respect the character more. Willingness to learn and being able to acknowledge other people’s strengths is not a flaw, overconfidence is.

I didn’t feel anything was taken from me. Games are player-centric by nature, and I rather enjoyed there being other important characters with their own story, rather than just followers.

In conclusion, there isn’t anything I disliked about the character. His personality, his back-story, his journey and his role in the story were all interesting and well-written, in my opinion. Even the voice acting was appropriate. The cleansing of Orr remains my favourite and most memorable in the game to me.

Which brings me to Heart of Thorns. I don’t know if his death was ‘fan-service to the haters’, but I felt deeply disappointed by the needlessness of it. It felt even worse given that everyone else and their seventh cousin survived. Except for Eir, who’s death really only felt like a random, desperate stunt for impact.

A good story doesn’t need death for impact. On the other hand, badly writing out characters can ruin it. There are countless ways to remove, or re-purpose, characters without killing them. It would have been easy to cater to the haters by giving Trahearne a new role and less screen time. Honestly, he deserved better.

I am grateful the bugged Mordremoth fight spared me from seeing the ending myself (I saw it on YouTube). After 2 fun years, this is where I part ways with GW2. Since the expansion, I only bothered to log on when my friend needed help.

Although, I am going to continue doing more Trahearne fan art as well as a few drawings of my and my friend’s characters (you can find my art on MilaStardream.Webs.com).

I’ve been a gamer since DOS, and in the past decade, GW2 was one of the few non-BioWare games that I liked. I knew nothing about it when my friend got me into it, and I fell in love with the Sylvari race right away.

I’ll always be grateful to ArenaNet for creating such a lovely and unique race, and Trahearne who is now one of my favourite fictional characters of all time.

I feel he is incredibly underrated. And honestly, he deserved better than the terrible HoT ending.

I know this is long. I apologise and thank anyone who bothered to read it. Feel free to flame away, but I really felt like stating a different perspective; one of appreciation and genuine respect, instead of hate.

(PS: I posted this both under ‘Lore’ and ‘Gild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns’ as I am not sure where it should go.)

People just don’t like him b/c he stole the spotlight, they aren’t #1. In WoW and most mmo’s your character is the hero, maybe not the warchief or leader of your race but definitely the hero, newest expansion played on that concept with the garisson having everyone greet you as their leader.

As far as the pact goes I had no problem with him being the leader, except unless you’re sylvarri you don’t really know him much except for 2-3 missions. The whole we can’t have someone from an order be the leader was not the best excuse, as the player could have resigned to take leadership, sure the order leader would understand. In fact with development’s in HoT you might be the pact leader now anyways.

That being said if you play a sylvarri and chose his missions leveling wise you get a lot more respect for the guy. The only thing I don’t like is for the pact leader formed for fighting elder dragons… he didn’t fight either elder dragon. Pretty lame. He had some decent strategies but again we pick the course of action usually, thus he would have been a better 2nd in command as a tactician. I get kings may stay back and let their generals fight their wars but he was no ruler and as leader of an army he should have been on the front lines especially considering his power (refer to the one mission where he summons several elite minions) I get he couldn’t fight mordremoth being captured and all but there was no reason he couldn’t have fought zhaiten beside us and destinies edge.

Hopefully they just don’t make someone from the new destinies edge the leader. It should be you or maybe rytlock being a superpowerful herald and all. (combined with the charr’s military experience even though I’m not a big fan of the charr)

+1 good post, I pretty much agree
[spoiler] although the ending while probably unnecessary did fit well i think a elder dragon was going to try its kitten best to ensure its survival and planting a seed inside the brain of the only sylvari it still had a connection to was the best way to do so and potentially go unnoticed , it says something of the intelligence and nobleness of Traherne (sp) that he was able to figure this out (probably from being connected so deeply for so long (although to be honest i was really confused as for what sort of time scale this whole campaign was supposed to be) [/spoiler]

For this story to end, Trahearne really did need to die.

The big question is: “Can the sylvari be trusted?” Trahearne, firstborn and most well known of all sylvari, proved that they can with one of the few acts that would really prove it, giving his life to end Mordremoth. His death is inescapable proof that the sylvari can fight it off and stand with the other races. His death saves them from being held responsible for the sins of fallen sylvari.

Treesus indeed, it seems.

The problem is that Traherne’s character arc was finished. This has nothing to do with whether you like him or not, but rather that he had nothing left to offer as a character.

GW2’s main storyline is the story of you, and the story of traherne, and the story of DE. DE and Traherne’s primary arcs were completed, but while it makes sense to have DE just go about their separate ways and explore what and who they are aside from that organization, Traherne’s arc is defined solely by the formation of the pact and the fight against Zhaitan.

The story demanded the dissolution or at the very least severe crippling of the pact. Not just for the HoT plotline, but for the good of the story going forward. The pact that Traherne and the Commander built was too powerful in a narrative sense.

However, with as important as the Pact is to Traherne’s character arc, it wouldn’t make much sense to have traherne persist if the pact does not. Traherne is defined by the pact. The only way for Traherne to belivably finish his story was to make the ultimate sacrifice.

The way in which he made it may have felt contrived, but a world in which the pact is ruined and Traherne does anything other than attempt to rebuild it wouldn’t make sense. It’s too core to him as a character. Traherne has to pass the torch to the player at some point as he has no depth as a character without the pact and the fight against Zhaitan, but there is not narrative reason for him to belivable do so willingly.

One way or the other, Traherne was always going to sacrifice himself to save the commander. It was the only way for his story to end. It doesn’t matter how much you liked or disliked him. The pact needed to die for believable strife against the remaining elder dragons to happen, and as goes the pact, so too does Traherne.

If you think Trahearne is actually dead, we might still be in for a surprise.

What if the one we killed was a copy? What about the broken Caladbolg? The Mordremoth fight was too short, too easy, so I’m suspicious. And maybe Lil T-herne’s still alive.

Granted, I get get the mad jollies from splitting him in two. :P

One of the things I liked in GW2 was the originality of personal history. This business of “you were born to be epic” was very repetitive.

I’m not against them “kill” the character for whatever reason, just did not like the aesthetics, aesthetic style was very “Jesus nailed to the cross”. This was not original.

I agree on almost everything with PopeUrban except on the end of the Pact. To have great battles there needs to be large groups. I do not like much of this crime novel style stories as was the LW2 and much of the HOT. It all just boils down to: investigate it, talk to person X, read the book Y, come to the place Z, make magic ritual C and kill the enemy W. I missed a great battle as “claw island”. Fortunately in hot, the meta-events maps fulfill this gap, but ouside the history.

In fact it is quite strange(to not say ridiculous), fighting a big enemy physically and also big in terms of “magic power”, large enough to be considered a threat to the whole world, with only a group of 5 or 6 people who spend more time behaving as if they were detectives in the style of anime Scooby-Doo.

Vote for Anet in future stories which departs from that line, and then come back with great epic battles like Zaithan fight history.

And ofc, i have same respect for Trahearne as u do. At first, i was confuse with his history. But when i repetead history mode with other alts, its become more clear.

I think much of the hate directed at Traherne was more a consequence of bad personal story design for the player’s character than for Traherne himself. There’s nothing wrong with Traherne as a character. Or any of the other hero NPC’s for that matter. The problem is that YOU are not much of a character. The NPC’s have far more emotional\dynamic relationships than you do. You are “the commander”, someone of importance in the macro sense, but you personally have little to no depth.

How about giving us a real love interest? How about personal tragedy? When do we fall into darkness and despair but subsequently rise through extreme sacrifice? Where’s the cut scenes with our character weeping, yelling a fierce battle call, making love, or doing anything to make us feel our character is supposed to be important to us and and has depth? It’s not there.

It’s ok for us to take a back seat in the story if we are invested in our own characters. That can be done with giving us some control over our complexity. We can have quirks and flaws. We can be humorous. We can be pure. We can be deceitful. Something to make us less one-dimensional. Something to draw us into our characters.

If we’re just watching the NPC TV channel, while our characters just sit on the virtual couch, you can see how folks can get resentful pretty fast of any NPC that takes over the spotlight.

Why couldn’t we have gotten the useless thief killed instead of him? Sigh.

Palador.2170:

For this story to end, Trahearne really did need to die.

The big question is: “Can the sylvari be trusted?” Trahearne, firstborn and most well known of all sylvari, proved that they can with one of the few acts that would really prove it, giving his life to end Mordremoth. His death is inescapable proof that the sylvari can fight it off and stand with the other races. His death saves them from being held responsible for the sins of fallen sylvari.

Treesus indeed, it seems.

[Treesus]
i. kittening. died.
10/10

Quick copy & paste of his part in my PS impression in another thread. I don’t own HoT but know his fate by consciously reading the spoilers.

Lastly, Trahearne. I didn’t really mind him, let alone going as far as hating him <lol> for “stopping” your character to become the special awesome snowflake in the PS or for “stealing” the sword. You may question why he was made the leader as a simple scholar(?) or if it happend simply due to the vision the Pale Tree provided, or why he appeared so late in the story for every non-Sylvari but he certainly didn’t stole it from the player- at least it didn’t feel like that for me. Your character actually recommended him for the position and Trahearne was – as far as I am concerned – most of the time grateful for what you had done and for your (moral) support and gave credits when due. Heck, the lead-up towards the finale against Zaithan felt more about Destiny’s Edge than Trahearne being involved thanks/due to the Arah section. Now, all the above is ignoring the question/complaint/concern whether he’s actually an interesting character or not. As I’m apparently quite easy to please in that regard, I won’t comment on it.

Yes, I read some pretty ugly hate arguments, especially about him receiving that special sword from the Pale Tree, instead of the player character. Personally I find that kind of reason to hate disgusting as I tend to be goody goody when it comes to video game stories + characters :-).

it was obviously fan service. or at least responses to popular criticism:

• the final fight with mordremoth is way more involved and personal than zhaitan
• THE PLAYER kills trahearne
• tybalt is glorified

i’m just sad that trahearne died before we got to see a cleansed orr. he was a noble soul who did all the work that i didn’t wanna do

To be honest I agree with OP. These days people want to be always 200% a super over the top hero. And if it’s even reduced a little bit they flame the source of what they think is the reduction of that (in this case Trahearne). what people fail so see, is that like in Television series, a good character has a personality, and an evolution to it. Also sometimes setting the lead hero back a bit is NECESSARY to prevent plotholes. This was the case in gw2 BECAUSE Trahearne was the only one, able to lead, that was not affiliated with any of the orders. Big deal guys, this is story writing.

The hidden message was ‘anything for THE GREATER GOOD’, that includes stepping down as player hero from the top position, to not imbue the alliance with possible quibbles. That’s why Trahearne does it. Righteousness at it’s best.

Some people may dislike his voice, and without knowing it, hate his story for that. That is just not seeing the whole picture.

Anyway 10000% agree with op. Trahearne was a cheap ‘removal’. They could have made it more story correct by showing the pale tree have tears, by loosing one of her favorite, while recovering from mordremoth. But Anet was to lazy to implement a crucial part of story: Hoelbrak knowing Eir is death, and The Grove remembering Trahearne.

What makes it sad (imo) is that before reaching Trahearne in the jungle, the devs basically completely FIXED, what ppl hated about Trahearne: you, the player not being in lead position. You completely, absolutely, and with voice acting are now. They could have spared Trahearne, and just kept this line of ‘all power + voice acting to player’ going. But nope, they had to add a cheap death on top of it. Glad someone voices his/her concern over this. I’ve been wanting to say i disagree with the cheap (low impactfull even) deaths of Eir/trahearne in the story telling. It felt very cheap.

Caithe’s Story is better imo. You could have litteraly killed her. Or you could write a spin of that she’s killed by her Inner Darkness. They chose the second. More exciting, and more retention, way better storytelling.

I barely look forward to next dragon’s, personal story. The broken destiny’s edge 1 and also the all the time split up destinies’s edge 2, their combination just doesn’t fit. As some people call it ‘they don’t have the Charismatic connection’. That will weight high on the possible impact of the story in a negative way.

@ pope: there’s other ways to write a character off without killing it. Like "for me no more dragon fights, i leave the scepter of leadership to you ‘the player’ ". Or Mordremoth left some of his foul magic inside of Trahearn, not enough to kill him, but Trahearn will need to be taken care of in the grove for the next decades to find himself again, leaving the leadership to you. Or the Pale Tree releases him from his Wyld Hunt cause she feels/believes, that he has gone tru to much pain already. In fact this would have been very nice, cause if you fight next dragon and need info, one of the earliest introduction quest could be ‘visit Trahearn in the Grove, try to speak with him about Dragon X’ to get more info about that dragon. It’s not like he intrudes anymore apon story, he’s just a living dragon wikipedia then.

And if it would have been just Eir or Just Trahearn (and the person would have gotten a tru farewell with people moaning their death), then this issue might not be so big. But now the gap is huge. ‘PAF charachter removed’, PAF another. No closing story moment, sorry, you will never see your favorite char again. Like really? Even the Tybalt farewall (albeit short) was much better done.

Raizen.7981:

[Treesus]
i. kittening. died.
10/10

I can’t take credit for that, others have been calling him that for years.

I dont dislike Trahearn because he stole the spotlight. I dont think he did.

I do dislike him for his writing, presentation, implementation, etc as a character and his impact on my enjoyment of the story itself. It was lessened by his presence. The writing that went into supporting his part of the story made me not care about the pact, left me thinking that the leaders of the orders were idiots not worthy of their position, and left me seeing my own character as a complete fool.

In short, Trahearne ruined the story, the characters involved in the story, and my own character for me.

Guild wars story used to have death as an element. Rurik/master Togo/kormir/jalis ironhammer/gadd and probably more I forget. It was lacking in gw2 and we got atleast 2 with hot.

You may think death is not necessary for the story, but without a little death the characters do not feel alive. 3 years of no death was kinda lame.

+1 to the OP.
I saw a lot of hate for Trahearne. Maybe in the beginning it was worse, but when I went through PS I actually rather liked him. He’s quite helpful- for squishy characters played by people not used to 3-D environments/not very good at their profession, he tanks for them and also revives them when they go down even if literally everything else is shooting him to death. Narrative-wise, I liked having someone around that knew what the heck was going on in the world. I don’t want to be a big hero all the time- the weight of everyone’s expectations is too heavy. It was nice having a partner and friend to go to the battlefield with.

A story that kills for the sake of death itself takes away the meaning of the characters. Trahearne and the Order leaders need more time and writing to flesh them out and remove some of that horribly abrupt pacing/exposition (or lack thereof) they were presented with. As many before had said, reluctant heroes forced to lead have a lot of potential- and it wasn’t really tapped into with Trahearne. Then he gets killed off before anything is done with it. Eir dying I can kind of understand, though I think the timing wasn’t quite right for that. Trahearne wasn’t even that bad- at least he helped!

Also where was the acknowledgement that you, the player, just killed off what was presented in game as your longtime friend, partner, and occasionally commanding officer? Why did nobody, not even the player, mention anything about this? They acknowledged Tybalt. They acknowledged Eir. Even Belinda Delaqua was given a proper nod-at. But not Trahearne, who should have had almost, if not as great of an impact on the player as the mentor character from PS- Tyria. It hurt, and it felt cheap. If I didn’t already care about Trahearne to this extent, his would just be another death. There were too many in close succession. I especially dislike the broken sword that now every single one of us players have to keep- as a permanent reminder that we could not save our best friend. You know, as if I didn’t feel useless enough already.

He really didn’t deserve this. Maybe it was, as OP said, their purpose from the start, but the way it was handled felt like fanservice to the haters, and a huge slap in the face for his fans.

throws in her 2 coppers

Cobalt Raven.3986:

I especially dislike the broken sword that now every single one of us players have to keep- as a permanent reminder that we could not save our best friend.

You might be overestimating the number of players that considered Trahearn to be their best friend.

I didn’t like the guy, but his death was really boring.

I would have preferred a fight to the death.

Ashen.2907:

You might be overestimating the number of players that considered Trahearn to be their best friend.

From a narrative point of view, that’s how they present it. A close associate, or your player character’s very good-best friend. Now, whether you actually believe this on your side of the screen is another question. I wish they would have developed the dynamic more- I actually don’t really know what it should be.

Cobalt Raven.3986:

Ashen.2907:

You might be overestimating the number of players that considered Trahearn to be their best friend.

From a narrative point of view, that’s how they present it. A close associate, or your player character’s very good-best friend. Now, whether you actually believe this on your side of the screen is another question. I wish they would have developed the dynamic more- I actually don’t really know what it should be.

Associate perhaps. I don’t recall ever spending time with him or talking with him outside of or about anything other than mission objectives/work duties.

Let us not forget that, story-wise, Trahearne possessed quite the willpower. I Mean, this salad man was right next to Mordremoth for the whole HoT story arc and Mordremoth forced his corruption on Trahearne. And yet, Trahearne didn’t break. Trahearne was force corrupted into a mordrem at the end and had a Mordremoth seed in his head and he was still himself and didn’t become a mindless slave.

Despite the fact that Trahearne’s constant monologuing came across as annoying, self-absorbed, and arrogant in the PS to me, I appreciated his noble death. He seemed to come across better to me in that moment than he usually does.

Meh, as I have ranted about before (probably) the reason I don’t like Treehearne is because he has the blandness of an everyman Neo character, but he’s not actually the main character, so there is no reason to care what happens to him.

I get that some people grew attached. Reactions are not all the same. But I never saw much in the way of dimension in the guy. He is too much of a walking deus ex machina. The only times he gets derailed from his goals are when it needs to happen to move the story in a particular direction. There is nothing believable (to me) about the things he does/accomplishes and most of it is not even accomplished by him in the first place… he is simply the story vessel through which the player accomplishes gameplay stuff.

I think that’s why a lot of people despised him, is because by the lore of the game, he was (throughout the PS) the one who was technically doing everything major – getting the leadership credit and having all these affirming/struggling moments about his role in the whole thing. Meanwhile, the player does all the actual work (because Treehearne is an NPC) and though the player might get some fabricated applause and thanks, there’s no real dimension to the thanks. This sort of format would, I think, work fine if the player was a passive viewer, but works horribly for a lot of people because many can’t get past that gap between story and gameplay in a way that makes it interesting.

It is hard to sell somebody on the idea that an NPC has done something amazing, if all they’ve done 90% of the mission is do 10 damage per swing and have a propensity for dying. But it is also easy to steal the player’s thunder if NPCs are too strong and do all of the heavy gameplay lifting before the player even has a chance to.

I don’t envy the job of finding balance in that.

Trahearne was terrible. I’ll list the ways:

1.) Trahearne is non-believable. He became leader of the Pact by pulling a sword out of a ground and knowing a lot about Orr. He knows nothing of military strategy (that we’re told of) and his only desire is to fulfill his Wyld Hunt. He doesn’t have loves, he doesn’t have a family, he’s just there…

2.) Everyone knows and loves Trahearne. Random people know Trahearne and it is presented horribly. He randomly shows up and every NPC is literally like “Yo, Trahearne! Whats up my dog?” No one seems to hate or dislike him. He literally has no personal challenges to his authority that are serious, which makes him less or a real character. Real people that make real decisions ALWAYS face harsh criticism or opposition. The fact Trahearne bulldozes his way through the story is just awful.

3.) Trahearne has NO personality. Trahearne is awful. You know that scene in Star Wars 3: Revenge of the Sith when Anakin talks about how he hates sand? That’s how Trahearne sounds ALL OF THE TIME. Trahearne doesn’t hate anyone, doesn’t seem to have emotions, and doesn’t get hurt. He is pretty much Jesus, which makes for an incredibly boring character.

Some people feel that haters don’t like him because he takes the spotlight, which I feel is not the point. If we had a true Pact Leader that was presented as a general or someone with more background who welcomed us a commander, it would seem so much more genuine than some random guy taking charge almost immediately with no military knowledge.

Imagine this:

Pact Leader should be someone with prior military knowledge: I honestly would love it if it was Logan or Rytlock, or any of the members of destiny’s edge. It could have been anyone that was an outsider to each of the pact factions.

They have already known you for a while (or heard of you from the other Destiny’s Edge members), respect you, and bring you on to lead a special operations task force (which is why you make decisions of what to do for Orr).

This special operations task force is what does all of the stuff on Orr, without the Pact Leader being involved until the end.

This would serve multiple purposes: you’re still a hero for leading the special operations team into Orr, the Pact Leader is believable and credible, and it leaves them with a lot of story room to do whatever they need.

If you wanted Trahearne, he could still be in the game as part of the Special Operations team because he is an expert on Orr.

Renim.6921:

---

Trehearne personal issues and challenge to leadership was mostly done before GW2 story began which was hinted during the GW2 dialogue with how Trehearne had personal history with each Order. The issue here was more of Anet not showing more of this since the story shrugged off that part to short mentions rather than going into detail on why the three Orders tried to recuit Trehearne beyond his knowledge of Orr.

However, i don’t agree that the Pact Leader should be a military mind type of person since the Pact was more of a treaty between Organizations rather than a actual military.

We had the Vigil for the military aspect.

Whispers for the infiltration and espionage.

and

Priory for technology and ancient knowledge.

a military mind as a leader would end up supporting the Vigil’s methods more than the Whisper and Priory so the Pact Leader will have to be open minded when dealing with planning since part of the job of the Pact Leader is to deal with politics that will be required to convince other organizations to join this Pact against the Elder Dragons.

Logan and Rytlock sadly are not as open for the role as Pact Leader because even though they have military history they have shown to favor the Vigil methods more than the Priory and Whispers.

With trehearne now gone his replacement will need to be someone who can consider multiple aspects of a plan without personal past as a Military member, a spy, or scholar affect their judgement.

The new leader will also have to be good with politics since part of what gets the Pact the support they need beyond the 3 Orders is the Leader being able to make political connections to obtain the necessary support.

EdwinLi.1284:

Trehearne personal issues and challenge to leadership was mostly done before GW2 story began which was hinted during the GW2 dialogue with how Trehearne had personal history with each Order. The issue here was more of Anet not showing more of this since the story shrugged off that part to short mentions rather than going into detail on why the three Orders tried to recuit Trehearne beyond his knowledge of Orr.

However, i don’t agree that the Pact Leader should be a military mind type of person since the Pact was more of a treaty between Organizations rather than a actual military.

We had the Vigil for the military aspect.

Whispers for the infiltration and espionage.

and

Priory for technology and ancient knowledge.

a military mind as a leader would end up supporting the Vigil’s methods more than the Whisper and Priory so the Pact Leader will have to be open minded when dealing with planning since part of the job of the Pact Leader is to deal with politics that will be required to convince other organizations to join this Pact against the Elder Dragons.

Logan and Rytlock sadly are not as open for the role as Pact Leader because even though they have military history they have shown to favor the Vigil methods more than the Priory and Whispers.

With trehearne now gone his replacement will need to be someone who can consider multiple aspects of a plan without personal past as a Military member, a spy, or scholar affect their judgement.

The new leader will also have to be good with politics since part of what gets the Pact the support they need beyond the 3 Orders is the Leader being able to make political connections to obtain the necessary support.

Isn’t there kind of a Vigil bias in the end though anyway? I mean, you don’t sneak into Zhaitan’s house while he’s sleeping and slit his throat. Or infiltrate the ranks of his minions. There are probably a few times you use Order of Whispers intelligence gathering throughout the whole thing and a few times you use ancient technologies, but on the whole (from what I remember) it all comes back to “taking the fight to Zhaitan.”

Plus one could argue that Trahearne is more of a scholar than anything, is biased in that regard, and the only reason he appears not to be is because the writers shoehorned him into the military leader role.

Labjax.2465:

Isn’t there kind of a Vigil bias in the end though anyway? I mean, you don’t sneak into Zhaitan’s house while he’s sleeping and slit his throat. Or infiltrate the ranks of his minions. There are probably a few times you use Order of Whispers intelligence gathering throughout the whole thing and a few times you use ancient technologies, but on the whole (from what I remember) it all comes back to “taking the fight to Zhaitan.”

Plus one could argue that Trahearne is more of a scholar than anything, is biased in that regard, and the only reason he appears not to be is because the writers shoehorned him into the military leader role.

That part of the reason why Trehearne always went to you for the major assault planning operations during Zhaitan Arc. Despite being a scholar he knows all the plans has ups and downs and his own opinion is not enough which is why he let us choose how to handle the operations we got ourselves involved with despite the choices not affecting us except who we get to know more.

The Pact is more of a treaty between organizations after all so bias opinions is bound to happen during plans for many things which we see more in Silverwaste from the new recuited members of each race’s small support teams where we see their beliefs from their own organizations affecting their opinions on the Pact. It is due to how the Pact is more of a treaty rather than a actual military organization why a leader may be required to have open mind for other opinions beyond their own.

Renim.6921:

Trahearne was terrible. I’ll list the ways:

1.) Trahearne is non-believable. He became leader of the Pact by pulling a sword out of a ground and knowing a lot about Orr. He knows nothing of military strategy (that we’re told of) and his only desire is to fulfill his Wyld Hunt. He doesn’t have loves, he doesn’t have a family, he’s just there…

This sounds like King Arthur, that mythological King on whose kingdom and customs the Sylvari are partially based.

Renim.6921:

2.) Everyone knows and loves Trahearne. Random people know Trahearne and it is presented horribly. He randomly shows up and every NPC is literally like “Yo, Trahearne! Whats up my dog?” No one seems to hate or dislike him. He literally has no personal challenges to his authority that are serious, which makes him less or a real character. Real people that make real decisions ALWAYS face harsh criticism or opposition. The fact Trahearne bulldozes his way through the story is just awful.

This is untrue. Play through PS again if you have the time or desire and listen to the dialogue between him and other NPC’s, before he is accepted as pact leader everyone and their dog questions him, and even afterward when things are moving fast in the war there is often dissent concerning which way to proceed among the orders. Sometimes that ends in a story mechanism for PC decision-making.

3.) Trahearne has NO personality. Trahearne is awful. You know that scene in Star Wars 3: Revenge of the Sith when Anakin talks about how he hates sand? That’s how Trahearne sounds ALL OF THE TIME. Trahearne doesn’t hate anyone, doesn’t seem to have emotions, and doesn’t get hurt. He is pretty much Jesus, which makes for an incredibly boring character.

Not Jesus, TREESUS!

Renim.6921:

Some people feel that haters don’t like him because he takes the spotlight, which I feel is not the point. If we had a true Pact Leader that was presented as a general or someone with more background who welcomed us a commander, it would seem so much more genuine than some random guy taking charge almost immediately with no military knowledge.

Imagine this:

Pact Leader should be someone with prior military knowledge: I honestly would love it if it was Logan or Rytlock, or any of the members of destiny’s edge. It could have been anyone that was an outsider to each of the pact factions.

They have already known you for a while (or heard of you from the other Destiny’s Edge members), respect you, and bring you on to lead a special operations task force (which is why you make decisions of what to do for Orr).

This special operations task force is what does all of the stuff on Orr, without the Pact Leader being involved until the end.

This would serve multiple purposes: you’re still a hero for leading the special operations team into Orr, the Pact Leader is believable and credible, and it leaves them with a lot of story room to do whatever they need.

If you wanted Trahearne, he could still be in the game as part of the Special Operations team because he is an expert on Orr.

If people are worried about Treesus taking the spotlight, imagine Pact Marshal Rytlock.

Anyhow, I didn’t hate Trehearne and didn’t think he really stole the spotlight, but I did think they wrote the PS poorly after the racial part, and a large aspect of that was the representation of the Trehearne-Commander relationship-as I said, I didn’t feel my spotlight was stolen, I don’t have to BE a commander of something in a game to feel like a hero- heck I don’t have to be the ONLY hero in the world or in the war to be a hero, but I didn’t feel like a commander, despite the story telling me I was one. It felt contrived. I think that put a lot of people off, and aside from that many more people who probably, in reality noticed NONE of this during their PS just love to jump on any bandwagon filled with hatred.

Killing Treefern was one of the most satisfying moments in the 3 years of this game for me. Besides, if you think his death is tragic, well, tragedy is one of the classic story forms. Long live Iago!

Wow, I had no idea there was so much hate for Trahearne (which I share), but for totally different reasons!

So I didn’t feel, in any way, he was stealing my limelight (only played as human, and asura). No, not at all.

But what I did hate was how much of a totally wet, unassertive, and frankly unbelievably soft sounding leader he was. No one would follow that voice into certain death combat; just no military gravitas whatsoever. Nothing irked my skin more than taking out some enemies and having him condescendingly say “well done!” as if I needed his personal commendation to know I’ve done well.

Every time I heard him speak I just wanted to punch him in the mouth!

Shallow, I know, but there it is…

Palador.2170:

For this story to end, Trahearne really did need to die.

The big question is: “Can the sylvari be trusted?” Trahearne, firstborn and most well known of all sylvari, proved that they can with one of the few acts that would really prove it, giving his life to end Mordremoth. His death is inescapable proof that the sylvari can fight it off and stand with the other races. His death saves them from being held responsible for the sins of fallen sylvari.

Treesus indeed, it seems.

PopeUrban.2578:

The problem is that Traherne’s character arc was finished. This has nothing to do with whether you like him or not, but rather that he had nothing left to offer as a character.

GW2’s main storyline is the story of you, and the story of traherne, and the story of DE. DE and Traherne’s primary arcs were completed, but while it makes sense to have DE just go about their separate ways and explore what and who they are aside from that organization, Traherne’s arc is defined solely by the formation of the pact and the fight against Zhaitan.

The story demanded the dissolution or at the very least severe crippling of the pact. Not just for the HoT plotline, but for the good of the story going forward. The pact that Traherne and the Commander built was too powerful in a narrative sense.

However, with as important as the Pact is to Traherne’s character arc, it wouldn’t make much sense to have traherne persist if the pact does not. Traherne is defined by the pact. The only way for Traherne to belivably finish his story was to make the ultimate sacrifice.

The way in which he made it may have felt contrived, but a world in which the pact is ruined and Traherne does anything other than attempt to rebuild it wouldn’t make sense. It’s too core to him as a character. Traherne has to pass the torch to the player at some point as he has no depth as a character without the pact and the fight against Zhaitan, but there is not narrative reason for him to belivable do so willingly.

One way or the other, Traherne was always going to sacrifice himself to save the commander. It was the only way for his story to end. It doesn’t matter how much you liked or disliked him. The pact needed to die for believable strife against the remaining elder dragons to happen, and as goes the pact, so too does Traherne.

I agree with both of these posts. I gained some respect for Trahearne at the end of HoT. His noble sacrifice was needed, indeed.

Daddar.5971:

Killing Treefern was one of the most satisfying moments in the 3 years of this game for me. Besides, if you think his death is tragic, well, tragedy is one of the classic story forms. Long live Iago!

I love that play.

I have zero enthusiasm for the story after that “ending,” which catered to people who hated a humble, kind-hearted protagonist. Like it or not, that was canonically your character’s friend and boss, and you failed to save him. Congratulations, Commander Screwup. Please have this visible and conveniently linkable spoiler as your reward.

Anyway. Positive feedback about Trahearne doesn’t seem to have much of an effect on anything, so I’m just going to low-effort this and say I completely agree with the OP and everyone who has similar views.

Gomoratoad.9867:

I have zero enthusiasm for the story after that “ending,” which catered to people who hated a humble, kind-hearted protagonist. Like it or not, that was canonically your character’s friend and boss, and you failed to save him. Congratulations, Commander Screwup. Please have this visible and conveniently linkable spoiler as your reward.

1) When the player has no say in a character’s emotions it isn’t truly his character. Dev’s should not decide who a PC considers to be a friend, what he likes, who he dislikes, etc.

2) Failing to save him implies an attempt or inclination to do so. In game play showed him to be actively working to help the dragons. Why would anyone want to save a character who is actively working for the enemy?

Dovienya.6597:

Renim.6921:

Trahearne was terrible. I’ll list the ways:

1.) Trahearne is non-believable. He became leader of the Pact by pulling a sword out of a ground and knowing a lot about Orr. He knows nothing of military strategy (that we’re told of) and his only desire is to fulfill his Wyld Hunt. He doesn’t have loves, he doesn’t have a family, he’s just there…

This sounds like King Arthur, that mythological King on whose kingdom and customs the Sylvari are partially based.

Renim.6921:

2.) Everyone knows and loves Trahearne. Random people know Trahearne and it is presented horribly. He randomly shows up and every NPC is literally like “Yo, Trahearne! Whats up my dog?” No one seems to hate or dislike him. He literally has no personal challenges to his authority that are serious, which makes him less or a real character. Real people that make real decisions ALWAYS face harsh criticism or opposition. The fact Trahearne bulldozes his way through the story is just awful.

This is untrue. Play through PS again if you have the time or desire and listen to the dialogue between him and other NPC’s, before he is accepted as pact leader everyone and their dog questions him, and even afterward when things are moving fast in the war there is often dissent concerning which way to proceed among the orders. Sometimes that ends in a story mechanism for PC decision-making.

3.) Trahearne has NO personality. Trahearne is awful. You know that scene in Star Wars 3: Revenge of the Sith when Anakin talks about how he hates sand? That’s how Trahearne sounds ALL OF THE TIME. Trahearne doesn’t hate anyone, doesn’t seem to have emotions, and doesn’t get hurt. He is pretty much Jesus, which makes for an incredibly boring character.

Not Jesus, TREESUS!

Renim.6921:

Some people feel that haters don’t like him because he takes the spotlight, which I feel is not the point. If we had a true Pact Leader that was presented as a general or someone with more background who welcomed us a commander, it would seem so much more genuine than some random guy taking charge almost immediately with no military knowledge.

Imagine this:

Pact Leader should be someone with prior military knowledge: I honestly would love it if it was Logan or Rytlock, or any of the members of destiny’s edge. It could have been anyone that was an outsider to each of the pact factions.

They have already known you for a while (or heard of you from the other Destiny’s Edge members), respect you, and bring you on to lead a special operations task force (which is why you make decisions of what to do for Orr).

This special operations task force is what does all of the stuff on Orr, without the Pact Leader being involved until the end.

This would serve multiple purposes: you’re still a hero for leading the special operations team into Orr, the Pact Leader is believable and credible, and it leaves them with a lot of story room to do whatever they need.

If you wanted Trahearne, he could still be in the game as part of the Special Operations team because he is an expert on Orr.

If people are worried about Treesus taking the spotlight, imagine Pact Marshal Rytlock.

Anyhow, I didn’t hate Trehearne and didn’t think he really stole the spotlight, but I did think they wrote the PS poorly after the racial part, and a large aspect of that was the representation of the Trehearne-Commander relationship-as I said, I didn’t feel my spotlight was stolen, I don’t have to BE a commander of something in a game to feel like a hero- heck I don’t have to be the ONLY hero in the world or in the war to be a hero, but I didn’t feel like a commander, despite the story telling me I was one. It felt contrived. I think that put a lot of people off, and aside from that many more people who probably, in reality noticed NONE of this during their PS just love to jump on any bandwagon filled with hatred.

King Arthur is more developed than Trahearne ever was, which is why I don’t like Trahearne.

Even you agree with me that he has no personality.

If Rytlock was Pact Leader, I would LOVE IT (I don’t even like the Charr or play a Charr).

None of the Destiny’s Edge guys steal the spotlight, which is why they work for the early stories. While they do join you on a couple of occasions, the story still focus’ a lot on you.

The same exact thing goes for the mentors. They were entertaining, awesome, and had great roles in the story. Most importantly, all of the Destiny’s Edge characters and the mentors HAVE A PERSONALITY.

Once Trahearne enters the picture, everything becomes garbage.

Gomoratoad.9867:

I have zero enthusiasm for the story after that “ending,” which catered to people who hated a humble, kind-hearted protagonist. Like it or not, that was canonically your character’s friend and boss, and you failed to save him. Congratulations, Commander Screwup. Please have this visible and conveniently linkable spoiler as your reward.

Anyway. Positive feedback about Trahearne doesn’t seem to have much of an effect on anything, so I’m just going to low-effort this and say I completely agree with the OP and everyone who has similar views.

Imo, Trahearne should have become a Champion/Avatar of Mordremoth and we should have had to kill him in the end.

Instead, he remains as Treesus.

It’s almost like they’re afraid of giving him a personality.

Ashen.2907:

1) When the player has no say in a character’s emotions it isn’t truly his character. Dev’s should not decide who a PC considers to be a friend, what he likes, who he dislikes, etc.

2) Failing to save him implies an attempt or inclination to do so. In game play showed him to be actively working to help the dragons. Why would anyone want to save a character who is actively working for the enemy?

I realize everyone has their own personal canon for their characters, which may not follow the story exactly, or at all. When I say canonically, I mean the story as it actually plays out in the game. In that case, the PC wants to save Trahearne because he is important to them. He’s a friend, and the Pact leader. Rescuing him and DE is their main motivation for wandering through the jungle. So when the PC emphasizes the need to save Trahearne repeatedly, then ends up killing him instead, I consider it a pretty big failure.

I’m confused about how Trahearne was actively helping the dragons. He helped create, and led, an organization designed to stop the dragons.

Renim.6921:

Imo, Trahearne should have become a Champion/Avatar of Mordremoth and we should have had to kill him in the end.

Instead, he remains as Treesus.

It’s almost like they’re afraid of giving him a personality.

He had a personality, he was just more introverted and subtle than the standard Surly Toughguy or Zany Goofball types. In Season 2 he became more confident and outgoing, and angry at Mordremoth. I was interested to see how that would play out in HoT. Instead he gets five minutes of screentime where he whips out some convenient Plot Magic to save the day (y’know, a thing people disliked in the original PS), and dies. Exciting!

Don’t feel bad, GW2 had horrible writing since day one. They axed off characters without reason in the personal stories back in the day and they sadly will continue this tradition untill the game dies.

This!! I was taken aback by how the writers willingly kill off their main characters so easily (Eir and Trahearne). I had always liked Trahearne because of his character and I have barely known Eir and now she is dead =.=. If this is an ongoing pattern of the gw2 story then i can guarantee that the ending story would be my own character sacrificing his life for Tyria. Too cliche for me.

Edit: I forgot to mention that Trahearne’s Death scene was so depressing because the player’s character last words were, “I won’t let all this be for nothing. Stand back. I’m ending this…now!” What is this?! No emotion and no recognition for Trahearne’s sacrifice. At least Eir has Braham to send off and the rest of the pact but Trahearne? NO ONE GIVES A S**T (If you go back to talk to your allies after defeating Mordre, they never once mention about Trahearne) !! It’s almost as if Trahearne’s destiny is to die. Annoyed that one of the lead character is neglected.

What alarms me is that there are people posting that the three orders should go their own way again and not be part of the pact. Surely the point of the battle against zhaitan was that this just wouldn’t work, they even apparently hated one another and that would likely resume, rendering them all useless.

Lets see a section of the living story, for example, where the Master of Whispers sends their order member to go assassinate some vigil commander who looked at them funny and then see how people like it.

Doubly so when the next dragon threatens some village and the vigil don’t turn up to protect them because that player wiped out their command staff.

As to the priory players, well, they just get to spend all day reading books and arguing about what course of action to take.