Guild Wars 2

As long as the core game remains only available while it is attached to HoT it is no longer an expansion. It has become the standalone core game because the only way to get the core game is to purchase HoT.

Random.4691:

briggah.7910:

Random.4691:

briggah.7910:

Can someone dig up a video or official post from Anet where they actually say “I promise this” or “I promise that”

I’m not sure they ever “promised” anything, I’m thinking they said things and people took those are promises. People change their minds all the time. Some things have to change to get better.

If they didn’t do a pinky swear with you personally I wouldn’t take it as a promise.

So you would be perfectly fine if say you purchase the xpac and a month down the road they “change their mind” and decide they aren’t going to release it ? Here’s the kicker, no refunds, after all people change their minds all the time right ?

Seeing as that would never happen and I already think of you as a troll. I have nothing else to respond to you. :P

You don’t have to respond, but I am curious why you would think it would never happen ? I mean we are talking about a company that just insinuated to (I’ll guess and say thousands) of people that they needed to buy the game prior to the xpac, only to “change their minds”.

Still waiting for proof that Anet actually said “I Promise”

Can you link me to any other game that had a pre-order for an expansion and they decided to just drop it and not refund its players? If not well it would never happen.

briggah.7910:

Random.4691:

briggah.7910:

Random.4691:

briggah.7910:

Can someone dig up a video or official post from Anet where they actually say “I promise this” or “I promise that”

I’m not sure they ever “promised” anything, I’m thinking they said things and people took those are promises. People change their minds all the time. Some things have to change to get better.

If they didn’t do a pinky swear with you personally I wouldn’t take it as a promise.

So you would be perfectly fine if say you purchase the xpac and a month down the road they “change their mind” and decide they aren’t going to release it ? Here’s the kicker, no refunds, after all people change their minds all the time right ?

Seeing as that would never happen and I already think of you as a troll. I have nothing else to respond to you. :P

You don’t have to respond, but I am curious why you would think it would never happen ? I mean we are talking about a company that just insinuated to (I’ll guess and say thousands) of people that they needed to buy the game prior to the xpac, only to “change their minds”.

Still waiting for proof that Anet actually said “I Promise”

Can you link me to any other game that had a pre-order for an expansion and they decided to just drop it and not refund its players? If not well it would never happen.

Why would I link something that doesn’t exist ? I have never said anywhere that Anet made a promise. I did say they insinuated, which is why my question is relevant. They are insinuating that they will be releasing an expansion, they have not promised they are releasing one.

Random.4691:

As long as the core game remains only available while it is attached to HoT it is no longer an expansion. It has become the standalone core game because the only way to get the core game is to purchase HoT.

Can still buy it on amazon.

Random.4691:

briggah.7910:

Random.4691:

briggah.7910:

Random.4691:

briggah.7910:

Can someone dig up a video or official post from Anet where they actually say “I promise this” or “I promise that”

I’m not sure they ever “promised” anything, I’m thinking they said things and people took those are promises. People change their minds all the time. Some things have to change to get better.

If they didn’t do a pinky swear with you personally I wouldn’t take it as a promise.

So you would be perfectly fine if say you purchase the xpac and a month down the road they “change their mind” and decide they aren’t going to release it ? Here’s the kicker, no refunds, after all people change their minds all the time right ?

Seeing as that would never happen and I already think of you as a troll. I have nothing else to respond to you. :P

You don’t have to respond, but I am curious why you would think it would never happen ? I mean we are talking about a company that just insinuated to (I’ll guess and say thousands) of people that they needed to buy the game prior to the xpac, only to “change their minds”.

Still waiting for proof that Anet actually said “I Promise”

Can you link me to any other game that had a pre-order for an expansion and they decided to just drop it and not refund its players? If not well it would never happen.

Why would I link something that doesn’t exist ? I have never said anywhere that Anet made a promise. I did say they insinuated, which is why my question is relevant. They are insinuating that they will be releasing an expansion, they have not promised they are releasing one.

You seem to be full of information and I keep hearing others saying Anet broke a promise. I thought maybe you could help me solve the issue since I really don’t think Anet actually said “I promise”

Take it as a complement.

Jaken.6801:

Arioso.8519:

Actually, isn’t it more like a revision?

Like with Street Fighter 4, Super Street Fighter 4, Ultra, Arcade Edition, etc.

New users and old users pay the same price for the full package, and the only advantage long time players have is personal experience and getting to keep the DLC costumes, earned unlocks, and such they already bought on the old versions.

Actually, yeah, it’s EXACTLY like Street Fighter 4,

Except the revisions were released at much lower price points than the original games at release, each one was in the $20-$30 range…

He, another one with my Street Fighter compareson.
ANet going the Capcom way, so yeah it is not a new thing they are doing here.

Though it is like every Street Fighter since 2.

The good thing about them, though, was the simple fact that you could still sell your old copy of the game.
Upgraded to Super Street Fighter 4 Ulimate Arcade Mega Edition, you got still your Super Street Fighter 4 Ultimate Arcade Edition, or just plain old Street Fighter 4 to give around to your friends or sell it. If the devs were smart, you could even play with them, as the new stuff could have been patched in or could have been plain DLC.

However this is the new modern digital age.

GW2 = GW2HoT

Their thinking is smart, even though it is devalueing the expansion with it.
It is all about new players and everything is directed at new players, who don`t know better, or are easy pickings.

The Core Game and Expansion should have been a seperate bundle. Right now it is taking the place of the core game, making it basicaly GW2 3.0.

So while in marketing speech it could be called a big expansion, as it is not sold seperately and from a developement perspective just a big feature pack it just ends up being (with the fact that the core game doesn`t exist anymore) GW2 after three years. Please pay for it.

I don`t want to be harsh. I know their reasoning. However it still doesn`t makes it right. It leaves a big sour taste in my mouth.

even capcom switched, the last pc version of SFIV you could upgrade to ULTRA for like 15 bucks
http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Street-Fighter-IV-Digital/dp/B00JAK0P7Y

capcom did what they did at a time when you couldnt update a game easily, and distribute it easily, and you spent a large sum on marketing packaging and producing hard copies.
now that the market is different, they are getting with the times.

what it comes down to for anet, if the expansion alone is really supposed to be 50 dollars, with no bonuses, or extras it has to compare to whatever it is people expect from a 50 dollar MMO game

That is very true. so it can still be purchased from a third party, someone should probably inform them that is is now apparently free.

That aside, combining it with HoT does make it a stand alone core game. That is what a stand alone is, you no longer need to go out and purchase what was once the core game. You just need to buy HoT.

briggah.7910:

Random.4691:

briggah.7910:

Random.4691:

briggah.7910:

Random.4691:

briggah.7910:

Can someone dig up a video or official post from Anet where they actually say “I promise this” or “I promise that”

I’m not sure they ever “promised” anything, I’m thinking they said things and people took those are promises. People change their minds all the time. Some things have to change to get better.

If they didn’t do a pinky swear with you personally I wouldn’t take it as a promise.

So you would be perfectly fine if say you purchase the xpac and a month down the road they “change their mind” and decide they aren’t going to release it ? Here’s the kicker, no refunds, after all people change their minds all the time right ?

Seeing as that would never happen and I already think of you as a troll. I have nothing else to respond to you. :P

You don’t have to respond, but I am curious why you would think it would never happen ? I mean we are talking about a company that just insinuated to (I’ll guess and say thousands) of people that they needed to buy the game prior to the xpac, only to “change their minds”.

Still waiting for proof that Anet actually said “I Promise”

Can you link me to any other game that had a pre-order for an expansion and they decided to just drop it and not refund its players? If not well it would never happen.

Why would I link something that doesn’t exist ? I have never said anywhere that Anet made a promise. I did say they insinuated, which is why my question is relevant. They are insinuating that they will be releasing an expansion, they have not promised they are releasing one.

You seem to be full of information and I keep hearing others saying Anet broke a promise. I thought maybe you could help me solve the issue since I really don’t think Anet actually said “I promise”

Take it as a complement.

You are actually 100% correct, they never did make a promise.
And TY, I do like to do some research so I’m not just verbally crapping all over the place. It’s hard to take a stand if you don’t actually know what your standing for.

Random.4691:

That is very true. so it can still be purchased from a third party, someone should probably inform them that is is now apparently free.

That aside, combining it with HoT does make it a stand alone core game. That is what a stand alone is, you no longer need to go out and purchase what was once the core game. You just need to buy HoT.

interesting, i guess the stores will have to start pricing the original at like 5-10 bucks, if it costs like 40, people will instantly return them to retailers as soon as they find out they can get it free with HOT.

either that or anet will have to make all new players, even if they get the box, into HOT owners.

Random.4691:

You are actually 100% correct, they never did make a promise.
And TY, I do like to do some research so I’m not just verbally crapping all over the place. It’s hard to take a stand if you don’t actually know what your standing for.

Thanks that’s what I thought and I actually think many are making a stand but not really knowing what they are standing for.

Hypothetically the stores would have to give it away for free and try and claim their losses from Anet or NCsoft.

Random.4691:

Hypothetically the stores would have to give it away for free and try and claim their losses from Anet or NCsoft.

nah, i dont think companies honor those. I remember champion online boxes sold for like 5-10 dollars after it went free to play, it did come with a free month of premium though.

for 5 to 10 dollars you still get a lot of game, its only a problem if its not super cheap.

I’m not disagreeing, I’m just saying if the game is now free like so many are claiming then hypothetically it should be free at retailers as well. If its a free game those will rot on the shelves because everyone should be able to just DL it here. Which is not the case at all.

The hard copies of HoT will hit the shelves “when it’s ready”. So it can’t qualify as DLC either.

Galleron Kurn.7490:

If it wasn’t an expansion, then it would be something completely different that doesn’t include any material from the core game (like Factions or Nightfall from GW1). In this case, it does.

Nightfall and Factions had material from the core game. The mechanics and old classes with new skins.

HoT is getting much more closer to that category. Being a standalone that exands the universe of the core game. However since it expands it by a very small margin, it can’t be a standalone.

However, with the core game no longer shipping on its own, HoT is not an expansion.

So what is it then?! How about the finished core game, which was 3 more years in the making after hitting the shelves?! So maybe just stop thinking of them in terms of GW2 and HoT?! Fuse them a lil’ and, to prevent “HoT” from becoming irrelevant once the Kralkatorik hunt starts, just call it “Guild Wars 2: As it Should’ve Been from the Start”?

PS: Changing the way you level up and earn abilities and so on, doesn’t add to existing game stuff, it replaces it. Hence – new game.

Omocha.4931:

The hard copies of HoT will hit the shelves “when it’s ready”. So it can’t qualify as DLC either.

Galleron Kurn.7490:

If it wasn’t an expansion, then it would be something completely different that doesn’t include any material from the core game (like Factions or Nightfall from GW1). In this case, it does.

Nightfall and Factions had material from the core game. The mechanics and old classes with new skins.

HoT is getting much more closer to that category. Being a standalone that exands the universe of the core game. However since it expands it by a very small margin, it can’t be a standalone.

However, with the core game no longer shipping on its own, HoT is not an expansion.

So what is it then?! How about the finished core game, which was 3 more years in the making after hitting the shelves?! So maybe just stop thinking of them in terms of GW2 and HoT?! Fuse them a lil’ and, to prevent “HoT” from becoming irrelevant once the Kralkatorik hunt starts, just call it “Guild Wars 2: As it Should’ve Been from the Start”?

well its basically the GW2 collected edition, but there is no option to get anything else.

So basically we went from a core game that will still be available to new players, to an optional xpac that won’t have the core game but will need the core game to play, to an optional xpac with the core game bundled into it, to no more core game available to new players without the xpac (from anet), to if you want to play GW2 as a new player you have to buy the xpac (unless you go to a third party dealer).

Who’s driving this clown car ?

Random.4691:

So basically we went from a core game that will still be available to new players, to an optional xpac that won’t have the core game but will need the core game to play, to an optional xpac with the core game bundled into it, to no more core game available to new players without the xpac (from anet), to if you want to play GW2 as a new player you have to buy the xpac (unless you go to a third party dealer).

Who’s driving this clown car ?

Yep. And while it sounds crazy, it makes only sense for new players.
New players get everything. It`s a good thing and 50$ isn`t much for a non sub MMO.
It`s a great deal.

However the problem lies in the radical approach. There is no other option anymore, which really hurts the percieved value for players who own the game already.

GW2=GW2HoT.
If you want the cool stuff, buy the game again. Capcom style.
Or stay with your “old” version and stay with the good old stuff. Sure you might get some updates, but like a modern smartphone, as soon as the newer models with the better Firmware come along you will see only a dripple of what the others got in the future…

The GW2’s core is being revamped with HoT, so people who purchased any vesion of the original beta will now feel like having a “Trial Version” of the product. Incomplete class development, barred off from any content being delivered to GW2:HoT, all in all, being denied the experience they’ve been promised when buying the GW2:Beta as the final product.

There is no mmo I’ve played – or even offline game for that matter – that delivers this kind of poop.

• DLCs are fun but not game breaking (you can enjoy the whole ME2 without meeting Kasumi),
• Expansions are available but not affecting the playability of the core game (new class, more skills, more instances, more exclusive skins – NOT new mechanics that drip into the core, making its own invalid or incomplete).
• Revamps are also delivered (see FFXIV as an example), but with a lot of bonifications to the playerbase (they had f2p while the game was being reworked and bonuses for sticking with SE afterwards)… Arenanet sorry! NC Soft doesn’t compensate any of the veterans supporting it while being still a WiP, but even worse, it also expects all of them to pay for the finished product again.
  The new players could – if we think of Anet’s team and dedication to GW1 – fork out the $100 for the Ultimate, as it has a good chance to be a stunning product. However, if we look at how the leadership treated the playerbase, I’d say Anet doesn’t have a say in any of this kittenstorm and that more of these pricky episodes will be… revealed in the years to come.

I only payed $20 for GW2:Beta last autumn. It always felt like an unfinished product, with good potential. I’ve got my money’s worth during these 8 months. My ~20k gems purchases were all made using the game currency, but that still means someone made them available, by forking out to NC Soft. I’m sorry I did it.

Character expansions that should not have been needed (8 classes – 8 slots), inventory bags and bank tabs too limited for a game someone payed for were all sticks in the eye, to get more dough. From a game still in development!
And the willing beta testers paying for the help they offered in fine-tunning the LW system and game mechanics! <trollface>

The sad part is that, from a current player point-of-view (that doubts to give away 60$), not only is not an expansion, but a barrier to core game.

Core game is now old gw2core+HoT, if you’re new, core game includes HoT.

If you’re not new, core game doesn’t include HoT, you’ve to spend 60$ (50 + additional slot for Revenant, as it will be the most typical case) or more.

So, ANet put a (high) pay barrier to veteran/current players in order for them to get in touch with the new players, who receive all the content.

Also, new players have the excellent opportunity to totally ignore the Scarlett mess, they get the best deal ever!!!!!!

Joking aside, the prices/bundle construction does little sense, and most people wonder what the hell were they thinking when decided this. They should know that this would cause, at least, some confussion.

It doesn’t make sense that they dropped this while they were showing some content on E3, this totally blocks whetever they were saying. The only way this weird bundles/prices would not block the content news would be that the content news announced Cantha being included in HoT. I can’t think on any other think with enough power to justify this packs.

So, we have people here confused about whoe xactly in ANet has lost their minds.

an expansion pack doesn’t include th core game, if it does then it’s a game bundle.
also, if they really want to sell this as an expansion pack then they should do so without the core game, lowering the price accordingly.

Not trying to understand people’s outrage over this issue, and mocking them, does not aid the discussion in any constructive way, and makes you look a bit silly.

DarkSyze.8627:

(from a player post)

Here is what a expansion is:

This analogy forgets one important thing:

Guild Wars 2: Subscription Free
FF 14: Pay every Month 15 Dollar/Euro, regardless if you played the game in the month , or not

So over a year : Guild Wars 2 = 0€/$, FF14 over a Year = 180€/$

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Not trying to understand people’s outrage over this issue, and mocking them, does not aid the discussion in any constructive way, and makes you look a bit silly.

Veteran players asking to get a separate base game key because they think the product somehow entitles them to that are silly. Giving out millions of base GW2 accounts to people who upgrade their current account would also be pretty silly.

Orpheal.8263:

DarkSyze.8627:

(from a player post)

Here is what a expansion is:

This analogy forgets one important thing:

Guild Wars 2: Subscription Free
FF 14: Pay every Month 15 Dollar/Euro, regardless if you played the game in the month , or not

So over a year : Guild Wars 2 = 0€/$, FF14 over a Year = 180€/$

This analogy forgets one important thing:

Guild Wars 2: F2P system, but 1.5 times purchase required.

GW2 Beta (aka GW2): $50+
GW2 Final (aka GW2:HoT): $50+
same ingame economy as Ritft/Tera/Etc

So cost over time, Rift/Tera/etc: = $0, GW2 = $100+

There’s virtually no point in comparing the business model like that. With HoT NC, through Anet, are lying through their teeth. The business model of GW2 was identical to Rift and similar games out there. Huge pressure on game shop to improve QoL.

Might be worth remembering that NC kittened up another title for the EU, Aion, by ping-pong’ing between f2p and subbed, having players actually screwed over.

ANet is love and life and dreams and rainbows, sure. But they – from my opinion – desperately need a backbone so they can protect the fans they pretend so much to care about against such abuses. Which they don’t have, nor do they seem to care about now, ‘cause they’re famous. GW1 and its community placed them on a pedestal so high that reality begins to get extremely distorted.

Alphard.6529:

Veteran players asking to get a separate base game key because they think the product somehow entitles them to that are silly. Giving out millions of base GW2 accounts to people who upgrade their current account would also be pretty silly.

They claim the full game is free. So why shouldn’t they give existing players an extra copy of the game, if it is included for free with the expansion? Its free aint it? So what’s the problem?

See, and this is exactly what makes existing players feel that something is shady. Especially since the expansion happens to be the price of a full game. This has nothing to do with entitlement.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

See, and this is exactly what makes existing players feel that something is shady. Especially since the expansion happens to be the price of a full game. This has nothing to do with entitlement.

+1
While the core game is no longer available, just offered “for free” to people not having it.
Maybe…. maybe there’s no longer a core game? Maybe HoT is the name of the game?!

No I won’t stop!

Expansion expansion expansion!

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Alphard.6529:

Veteran players asking to get a separate base game key because they think the product somehow entitles them to that are silly. Giving out millions of base GW2 accounts to people who upgrade their current account would also be pretty silly.

They claim the full game is free. So why shouldn’t they give existing players an extra copy of the game, if it is included for free with the expansion? Its free aint it? So what’s the problem?

See, and this is exactly what makes existing players feel that something is shady. Especially since the expansion happens to be the price of a full game. This has nothing to do with entitlement.

The problem is that Anet can’t just give current players a second base account. It would be bad for many reason. On the other hand, new players getting the base game for free when they buy HoT is very healthy for the game in general and indirectly for veterans too. They do not want people buying vanilla GW2 going forward, they want only HoT to exist as a product. This is also very good for the game for many reasons, especially because future living world updates will require HoT. And by buying HoT, you’re also buying at least 1-2 years worth of future living world/story updates.

So they created this “smart” product that does different things depending on who buys it, because of the above considerations. I personally think it’s a win for both veterans and new players. I don’t see anything shady, each piece of the product benefits multiple groups in different (sometimes indirect) ways.

Alphard.6529:

The problem is that Anet can’t just give current players a second base account.

Exactly, which is why you should simply provide an upgrade at a lower price.

Alphard.6529:

I personally think it’s a win for both veterans and new players. I don’t see anything shady, each piece of the product benefits multiple groups in different (sometimes indirect) ways.

You don’t see anything shady about selling an expansion + the base game for free, but the expansion happens to have the same price as a full game?

You don’t see how that would make existing players feel like they are paying for the core game twice, but getting just the expansion? At least the new players are getting both, so for them the $50 bucks are justified. But for existing players? Where did our free game go? If we’re not getting that, then the price should be lowered for us.

It’s an expansion. Period.

You may argue its size; but it’s an expansion.

Now stop it with this stupid thread.

edited: because i by mistake posted twice rather than edit my first reply which I intended to do. But it was apparently necessary, because all posts after have been focusing on just that…

Dondarrion.2748:

You may argue its size; but it’s an expansion.

Now stop it with this stupid thread.

You needed two posts in a row to make such a smart and strong statement?) Not to mention the arguments you bring to the table are, certainly, irrefutable proof of the truth pouring out your every word.

While at it, why don’t you go on and buy the core product from the company?! What?! It’s not being sold anymore?! Awww… so then, HoT is an expansion to what precisely? I see…

Oh well, at least the core mechanics of the game will remain the same, riiigh… hm?! they won’t?! so that means without the expansion I won’t be able to enjoy the game no more?! What?!!! And the free content won’t be available for me if I don’t buy HoT?!

Oh… I see… Guess this product then, expanding on something that no longer exists, really is special. Not to mention confining and maybe a tad falsely advertized, but certainly an expansion… It expands one’s consciousness at how greedy, rude and ignorant a publisher can be and at how easy to fool some people are!

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

You don’t see anything shady about selling an expansion + the base game for free, but the expansion happens to have the same price as a full game?

You don’t see how that would make existing players feel like they are paying for the core game twice, but getting just the expansion? At least the new players are getting both, so for them the $50 bucks are justified. But for existing players? Where did our free game go? If we’re not getting that, then the price should be lowered for us.

Some players may feel they are paying for the base game a second time, but that’s simply not true, as Anet have confirmed. Maybe you think they’re lying. This makes no sense. What makes sense is giving the base game for free to new players, which is exactly what they’ve done.

Doesn’t WoW’s latest expansion also cost $50? Yes, you can argue the price is too high. It’s up to you to decide whether it’s worth it. Just keep in mind you’re also paying for all the free future living world/feature pack content you’ll be getting over the next years.

@Dondarrion
Doubleposts aren’t good ._. but I wonder if a HoT defender is allowed to do so, well…

@Random
That’s some confusing stuff you wrote there x_X but yeees, I guess you are pretty spot on with that. I feel really sorry for those ppl who buy GW2 in local stores now, not everyone hangs around game forums to be well informed not to step into this “trap”.

This topic got it’s own discussion in the german forum too. A german administrator even wrote “ArenaNet only wants ONE version of GW2 to be available” and that’s obviously GW2:hot. Sooner or later the normal version is going to vanish from online shops as well as local stores. ArenaNet NEVER intended to provide HoT seperatly for the already existing players. And this hits everyone, GW1 loyals, GW2 beta veterans and even new GW2 players, playing it for a bit longer than a month STILL makes you a new player.

The Street Fighter comparison would be fine if the games were not made for retail + you can’t buy the previous versions as soon as a new one appears. Street Fighter at least didn’t force new players to always buy the newest version of their game.

GW2:Hot is indeed not an expansion. It’s a replacement for the main game. Stating “We give new players the main game for free” sounds even more like a devious lie than before. EAnet, the longer you take to respond to this mess the worse gets your reputation. Get moving, at least for your own sake.

Dondarrion.2748:

You may argue its size; but it’s an expansion.

Now stop it with this stupid thread.

No, its not an expansion.

just like marvel vs capcom 3 ultimate isnt expansion.

if you cant pay for the upgrade seperately it isnt really an expansion.

its a new product.

take a look at heavenswward
they sell collected edition for 60
they sell the expansion for 40
if they only sold the collected edition, then there would be no expansion, just a new product to buy.

Alphard.6529:

Some players may feel they are paying for the base game a second time, but that’s simply not true, as Anet have confirmed.

So Anet has said so…. that’s your argument? Well to many consumers it looks quite differently. But hey, no harm, no foul. If the core game is included for free, then give us existing players a free copy of the game.

Alphard.6529:

Just keep in mind you’re also paying for all the free future living world/feature pack content you’ll be getting over the next years.

No I’m not. I’m paying for the expansion, and the expansion alone.

Alphard.6529:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

You don’t see anything shady about selling an expansion + the base game for free, but the expansion happens to have the same price as a full game?

You don’t see how that would make existing players feel like they are paying for the core game twice, but getting just the expansion? At least the new players are getting both, so for them the $50 bucks are justified. But for existing players? Where did our free game go? If we’re not getting that, then the price should be lowered for us.

Some players may feel they are paying for the base game a second time, but that’s simply not true, as Anet have confirmed. Maybe you think they’re lying. This makes no sense. What makes sense is giving the base game for free to new players, which is exactly what they’ve done.

Doesn’t WoW’s latest expansion also cost $50? Yes, you can argue the price is too high. It’s up to you to decide whether it’s worth it. Just keep in mind you’re also paying for all the free future living world/feature pack content you’ll be getting over the next years.

You are getting caught in market speak.
this has already happened before.
its a new game. thats what it means
if DLC costs as much as a new game
in order to buy it, you have to buy the stand alone game
then it is a new game.

you can play around with the words, but the facts are facts.
being able to use your old save data in a new game does not make it an expansion.

WoWs expansion was an expensive expansion because it requires the purchase of the base game and then the expansion

for your info, you can buy the base wow game for 10 bucks the base includes all older expansions.
and the expansion for 29.99
the fact the players can just pay for the expansion alone, is essentially what makes it an expansion.

Now there is another debate on the value, which is the most important thing, but the fact is, its no longer an expansion, it is the new and only version of the game going forward.

Alphard.6529:

Some players may feel they are paying for the base game a second time, but that’s simply not true, as Anet have confirmed. Maybe you think they’re lying. This makes no sense. What makes sense is giving the base game for free to new players, which is exactly what they’ve done.

Aside from taking ANet’s word as proof for what you’re saying (especially since ANet’s change of mind over their own FAQ is one of the problems), the sense making seems to be functioning quite strange for you, and here’s why:
- a player buys the game 35 days ago (let’s not get into the very recent recording of ANet’s refusing to do what they promised to do, which is sort out the accounts of people purchasing the game less than 30 days ago). Regardless if it was because of HoT or not, now (s)he’ll have to buy it again, because there can be only one GW2 version.
- a player buys the game today, but what do you know?! GW2 is no more and what (s)he gets for similar amount of money is the new GW2 – which ANet and some ppl love to call an expansion.

So for the person who purchased the game not long ago – seeing how MMO’s tend to keep you playing more than a month, hm? – there’s no harm done?! It makes sense to fork out $85+ to $50+ for the same game within such a short time frame?!

Also, please, show me the base game. And explain how it’s free? Does it come with a 2nd code? Does it come with a separate installer? If you can figure out how is the base game “extra” to HoT, you can then try to expain the “free” part. But I think you’ll fail at this first step.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

So Anet has said so…. that’s your argument? Well to many consumers it looks quite differently. But hey, no harm, no foul. If the core game is included for free, then give us existing players a free copy of the game.

Okay let me ask you this. Let’s say you bought the original GW2 for $60. Some time later they discounted the game to $40/$20/$10.

I’ve got 2 theories about the discount, let me know which one is more likely:

1). The game was really worth $30, but they made people who paid $60 pay for other people’s games.

2) The game was worth $60, but they sell it at a lower price later to bring in more people, because it makes business sense.

Are you outraged already?

Alphard.6529:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Not trying to understand people’s outrage over this issue, and mocking them, does not aid the discussion in any constructive way, and makes you look a bit silly.

Veteran players asking to get a separate base game key because they think the product somehow entitles them to that are silly. Giving out millions of base GW2 accounts to people who upgrade their current account would also be pretty silly.

But screwing the veteran players with their current pricing plan for pre-purchase is beyond silly, what happen to the common business practice of rewarding your loyal customers?

Alphard.6529:

The problem is that Anet can’t just give current players
a second base account. It would be bad for many reason.

Then they should give them something of equal perceived value, or a discount. It’s simple, really.

Alphard.6529:

So they created this “smart” product that does different things depending on who buys it, because of the above considerations. I personally think it’s a win for both veterans and new players. I don’t see anything shady, each piece of the product benefits multiple groups in different (sometimes indirect) ways.

The “smart” product makes everyone pay the same, but gives more to newcomers. Veterans don’t benefit in a different way, they benefit less.

evoRobot.4019:

Define expansion:

the action of becoming larger or more extensive.

Guild halls (with tons of features) · 3 YEARS LATER AND PAYING
new maps how many? 10, 11, 12? * vs 33 MAPS
events, rewards, new WvW, Gliders, LS Season. How many in final version?

Expansion Confirmed.

Either way the original game is being expanded, much larger, more features.

50 $? Never! no is a core game is a overpriced expansion

Alphard.6529:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

So Anet has said so…. that’s your argument? Well to many consumers it looks quite differently. But hey, no harm, no foul. If the core game is included for free, then give us existing players a free copy of the game.

Okay let me ask you this. Let’s say you bought the original GW2 for $60. Some time later they discounted the game to $40/$20/$10.

I’ve got 2 theories about the discount, let me know which one is more likely:

1). The game was really worth $30, but they made people who paid $60 pay for other people’s games.

2) The game was worth $60, but they sell it at a lower price later to bring in more people, because it makes business sense.

Are you outraged already?

the base games value goes down because the people who want it goes down.

but its irrelevant anyhow.
the fact that HoT is a standalone game, which costs as much as standalone games
and the fact that you cannot upgrade your account for less than the cost of the standalone game, means that it not an expansion.

its very simple.
they cant say its even a “bundle” unless it contains two products you can buy separately.

can you buy an upgrade to your game separately? no? then its not an expansion. its a new game. thats it.

Marketing speak is not real speak.

From what we’ve seen it should be called pre-purchasing season 3 of Living Story.

I agree that it has nothing to do with expansion pack or new standalone games, so the portrayal of it and pricing has been all wrong.

Omocha.4931:

- a player buys the game 35 days ago (let’s not get into the very recent recording of ANet’s refusing to do what they promised to do, which is sort out the accounts of people purchasing the game less than 30 days ago). Regardless if it was because of HoT or not, now (s)he’ll have to buy it again, because there can be only one GW2 version.

If they bought the game 35 days ago, they’re not veterans. And the situation is not too different from buying the game for $40 right before Anet does a $10 sale. Yes, it sucks, but why is it more objectionable then the sales?

Alphard.6529:

Omocha.4931:

- a player buys the game 35 days ago (let’s not get into the very recent recording of ANet’s refusing to do what they promised to do, which is sort out the accounts of people purchasing the game less than 30 days ago). Regardless if it was because of HoT or not, now (s)he’ll have to buy it again, because there can be only one GW2 version.

If they bought the game 35 days ago, they’re not veterans. And the situation is not too different from buying the game for $40 right before Anet does a $10 sale. Yes, it sucks, but why is it more objectionable then the sales?

because people directly asked them before purchasing would they have to buy the base game before they buy the expansion, and they said yes.

they then made that answer a part of their FAQ posted publicly online, as an answer to that question for all who were wondering if it was worth their time/money to buy now.

for these people they shouldnt be giving refunds, they should be giving them upgrades at the price of the difference between the sale price and the new game price.

phys.7689:

the base games value goes down because the people who want it goes down.

No no, Anet knew their game was worth $30, so they generated hype and made people pay for it twice, don’t you see?? Later when there was not so much demand, they dropped the price!! Outrageous! puts tin foil hat on

phys.7689:

means that it not an expansion.
Marketing speak is not real speak.

What you call it is not important, you don’t pay for the word. You pay for the content they’ve announced. If you feel it’s worth it – buy it, otherwise don’t, or wait for more info.

phys.7689:

because people directly asked them before purchasing would they have to buy the base game before they buy the expansion, and they said yes.

they then made that answer a part of their FAQ posted publicly online, as an answer to that question for all who were wondering if it was worth their time/money to buy now.

This is the only thing newer players can reasonably be upset about. Not veterans, not conspiracy theorists who think they’re paying for the base game twice.

Alphard.6529:

phys.7689:

the base games value goes down because the people who want it goes down.

No no, Anet knew their game was worth $30, so they generated hype and made people pay for it twice, don’t you see?? Later when there was not so much demand, they dropped the price!! Outrageous! puts tin foil hat on

phys.7689:

means that it not an expansion.
Marketing speak is not real speak.

What you call it is not important, you don’t pay for the word. You pay for the content they’ve announced. If you feel it’s worth it – buy it, otherwise don’t, or wait for more info.

the value of the content is the most important thing yes.

however people are pointing out that if it was actually was an expansion, as they are marketing it as, it wouldnt cost as much as the standalone game.

its not a question of do you want to get an expansion
its a question of do you want to buy the new standalone, as well as, is the amount of new content worth the price of the standalone game.

phys.7689:

its a question of do you want to buy the new standalone, as well as, is the amount of new content worth the price of the standalone game.

The new standalone is priced at what Anet think their new “expansion” (or whatever you want to call it) content (+maybe future living world content) is worth. Whether you agree to this is up to you to decide.

Alphard.6529:

This is the only thing newer players can reasonably be upset about. Not veterans, not conspiracy theorists who think they’re paying for the base game twice.

Newer players yes.
Veterans should be upset for being told they’ll get an expansion where it’s quite obvious this is not the case. They’ve been lied to or deceived, whichever word hurts you less… ’cause they are paying for the base game twice. Simply because it turns out HoT is the base game. PR and marketing kitten up led to this uprising. Devs and their bosses have built the hype about the expansion only to shoot a new game at people – in terms of mechanics and packaging. Keep the whole old story, with reworked content here and there and add a little extra (including the amazing skill balances-ish and maybe the bug fixes).

And since people love to compare apples and oranges, look no further than FFXIV. They reworked their product but didn’t deliver the “Realm Reborn” as Expansion, ‘cause no one would’ve swallowed that lie. However the ones responsible did make sure to compensate the loyal customers there. Did NC?!