Guild Wars 2

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4wcg24/unbound_magic_is_a_seasonwide_currency/

just read this

the boring farm which forced player into single map or limited play time is unfun and the main problem people complaint about hot being grindy .

just i thought anet said they will make content less grindy .another failed promise?

if you wanna keep players play new maps , better just make map event reward players special tokens for vendor access along with interesting reward like skin ,rare drop etc . so players can earn currencies from other map but they need to actually do something in certain map for that . this way , more freedom and less grind .

i dont mind farm hot maps or new bloodstone map but farming a single map for hours for a single skin/equipment is insane .
and lets be honest , the new map events get boring fast

also adding new currencies too often will make those stuff meaningless lore wise since it will feel more like just another new name new icon to farm .look at black soul .one single currency and meaningful for lore .

First, it’s too late to complain about unbound magic — whatever plans they have for it are already well underway. It’s a lot more work to change direction than it would be to keep moving forward, especially if we don’t want LS3.2 to be delayed.

Second, I’m not sure how much lore connection it had in the first place, as it is trivial to collect 10k without that much trouble. I think the lore is in the bloodstone fragments; the unbound magic is just a lorical [sic] phrase for the currency.

Finally, it strikes me that it’s premature to complain about Unbound Magic. We don’t know how much stuff will cost or if it’s relatively more difficult to get more than it is now. We don’t know if more of the map will open up (or if there’s a new map).

I definitely prefer that coin be the only currency. I don’t love having stats and skins and collections getting bottlenecked by discrete currencies. However, a lot of people asked for ways to acquire stuff other than RNG or “just farming gold”. Currencies are a lot less painful than tokens.

tl;dr I think it’s an okay tradeoff, to have luxury map rewards tied to map currencies, even though it’s not my preference. I will wait to see what happens with the next chapter before I decide to criticize ANet’s implementation.

I think the current currency system is pretty good at what it’s doing. No stupid RNG for rare stuff and players are able to see their progress towards a goal.

It is something that started happening in the original guild wars sometime around Eye of the North. 250 Superb Charr carvings for a mask is just one example. The franchise has been relying on it way too much.

It just feels like the only game design idea for retaining players is farming currency. Are the possibilities of game design really that limited?

They did not have different currencies in the core Tyria and people constantly asked for specific currencies. They wanted Teq weapons, they wanted wurm ascended and so on. So frankly it was players who kept demanding various currencies that led to them implementing (I agree too many different ones) currencies to everything now.

Yargesh.4965:

They did not have different currencies in the core Tyria and people constantly asked for specific currencies. They wanted Teq weapons, they wanted wurm ascended and so on. So frankly it was players who kept demanding various currencies that led to them implementing (I agree too many different ones) currencies to everything now.

i agree that players want specific currencies as in the past you can buy anything with gold ,but right now it seems too much ,new players hardly catch up while vets feel too grindy .

and it is certainly a way anet tried to keep map popular .a forced way like any other mmo on the market .

musu.9205:

Yargesh.4965:

They did not have different currencies in the core Tyria and people constantly asked for specific currencies. They wanted Teq weapons, they wanted wurm ascended and so on. So frankly it was players who kept demanding various currencies that led to them implementing (I agree too many different ones) currencies to everything now.

i agree that players want specific currencies as in the past you can buy anything with gold ,but right now it seems too much ,new players hardly catch up while vets feel too grindy .

and it is certainly a way anet tried to keep map popular .a forced way like any other mmo on the market .

What’s the right balance then?

• People hate on RNG: “it’s not fair if your luck is bad” (and people tend to think their own luck is worse than average)
• People hate on gold alone: “you shouldn’t just be able to farm with a credit card”
• People hate on tokens: “ANet just wants to sell more inventory upgrades”
• People hate on map currencies: “stop adding new currencies”
• People hate on collections: “it’s too much running around and the same for everyone — what happened to freedom to play as you like?”

Each mechanic that MMOs use has pluses and minuses. Everyone has their own preferences, so no single tool is going to be appreciated by each and every player.

How would you balance all the different methods of earning loot so that most people are happy and very few are deeply unhappy?

I haven’t seen a lot of complaints about the new zone being too grindy. Believe me when people think stuff is too grindy, they say so.

This is one of the very few complaints I’ve seen. The currency is easy to get, the dailies make it even easier. You only have to grind if you want stuff now. Or you can do just a little bit at a time, when you feel like it and chip away at it.

I mean do you NEED a bloodstone node in your home instance? There’s plenty of nodes in the zone anyway.

If Anet is so hyped up about adding more currencies why isn’t there a complete currency exchange mechanism to convert any currency into another?

curtegg.5216:

If Anet is so hyped up about adding more currencies why isn’t there a complete currency exchange mechanism to convert any currency into another?

Pretty sure the purpose of the currencies is to keep people returning to different zones to get different things. If you could exchange everything, that might be good for individuals but might be bad for the game over all.

Just like dailies and collections send us into earlier zones,. there won’t be a currency exchange, other than maybe something like the one that already exists in HoT.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

musu.9205:

Yargesh.4965:

They did not have different currencies in the core Tyria and people constantly asked for specific currencies. They wanted Teq weapons, they wanted wurm ascended and so on. So frankly it was players who kept demanding various currencies that led to them implementing (I agree too many different ones) currencies to everything now.

i agree that players want specific currencies as in the past you can buy anything with gold ,but right now it seems too much ,new players hardly catch up while vets feel too grindy .

and it is certainly a way anet tried to keep map popular .a forced way like any other mmo on the market .

What’s the right balance then?

• People hate on RNG: “it’s not fair if your luck is bad” (and people tend to think their own luck is worse than average)
• People hate on gold alone: “you shouldn’t just be able to farm with a credit card”
• People hate on tokens: “ANet just wants to sell more inventory upgrades”
• People hate on map currencies: “stop adding new currencies”
• People hate on collections: “it’s too much running around and the same for everyone — what happened to freedom to play as you like?”

Each mechanic that MMOs use has pluses and minuses. Everyone has their own preferences, so no single tool is going to be appreciated by each and every player.

How would you balance all the different methods of earning loot so that most people are happy and very few are deeply unhappy?

Maybe let players represent an organization and fill up a meter as they gain xp. At milestones they earn a reward, and unlock new tabs in an organization’s NPC seller list. The unlocked seller tab items could just sell for gold.

It’s like a cross between reward tracks used in PvP/WvW and guilds. Only it would be it’s own thing specific to PvE. And you could add some role playing to it by giving xp bonuses to certain actions fitting the organization you are representing. Like representing the durmond priory gives you xp bonus for gathering/mining and such.

Redfeather.6401:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

musu.9205:

Yargesh.4965:

They did not have different currencies in the core Tyria and people constantly asked for specific currencies. They wanted Teq weapons, they wanted wurm ascended and so on. So frankly it was players who kept demanding various currencies that led to them implementing (I agree too many different ones) currencies to everything now.

i agree that players want specific currencies as in the past you can buy anything with gold ,but right now it seems too much ,new players hardly catch up while vets feel too grindy .

and it is certainly a way anet tried to keep map popular .a forced way like any other mmo on the market .

What’s the right balance then?

• People hate on RNG: “it’s not fair if your luck is bad” (and people tend to think their own luck is worse than average)
• People hate on gold alone: “you shouldn’t just be able to farm with a credit card”
• People hate on tokens: “ANet just wants to sell more inventory upgrades”
• People hate on map currencies: “stop adding new currencies”
• People hate on collections: “it’s too much running around and the same for everyone — what happened to freedom to play as you like?”

Each mechanic that MMOs use has pluses and minuses. Everyone has their own preferences, so no single tool is going to be appreciated by each and every player.

How would you balance all the different methods of earning loot so that most people are happy and very few are deeply unhappy?

Maybe let players represent an organization and fill up a meter as they gain xp. At milestones they earn a reward, and unlock new tabs in an organization’s NPC seller list. The unlocked seller tab items could just sell for gold.

It’s like a cross between reward tracks used in PvP/WvW and guilds. Only it would be it’s own thing specific to PvE. And you could add some role playing to it by giving xp bonuses to certain actions fitting the organization you are representing. Like representing the durmond priory gives you xp bonus for gathering/mining and such.

An interesting suggestion for sure. However, how would you price stuff like the bloodstone backpiece in gold after the initial xp grind. Wouldn’t it stop people from ever doing any other method to get a backpiece if they can just buy one with gold? Would it be gated for 1 equip per char/account? Would you have to reset the xp if you want another backpiece?

NotOverlyCheesy.9427:

Redfeather.6401:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

musu.9205:

Yargesh.4965:

They did not have different currencies in the core Tyria and people constantly asked for specific currencies. They wanted Teq weapons, they wanted wurm ascended and so on. So frankly it was players who kept demanding various currencies that led to them implementing (I agree too many different ones) currencies to everything now.

i agree that players want specific currencies as in the past you can buy anything with gold ,but right now it seems too much ,new players hardly catch up while vets feel too grindy .

and it is certainly a way anet tried to keep map popular .a forced way like any other mmo on the market .

What’s the right balance then?

• People hate on RNG: “it’s not fair if your luck is bad” (and people tend to think their own luck is worse than average)
• People hate on gold alone: “you shouldn’t just be able to farm with a credit card”
• People hate on tokens: “ANet just wants to sell more inventory upgrades”
• People hate on map currencies: “stop adding new currencies”
• People hate on collections: “it’s too much running around and the same for everyone — what happened to freedom to play as you like?”

Each mechanic that MMOs use has pluses and minuses. Everyone has their own preferences, so no single tool is going to be appreciated by each and every player.

How would you balance all the different methods of earning loot so that most people are happy and very few are deeply unhappy?

Maybe let players represent an organization and fill up a meter as they gain xp. At milestones they earn a reward, and unlock new tabs in an organization’s NPC seller list. The unlocked seller tab items could just sell for gold.

It’s like a cross between reward tracks used in PvP/WvW and guilds. Only it would be it’s own thing specific to PvE. And you could add some role playing to it by giving xp bonuses to certain actions fitting the organization you are representing. Like representing the durmond priory gives you xp bonus for gathering/mining and such.

An interesting suggestion for sure. However, how would you price stuff like the bloodstone backpiece in gold after the initial xp grind. Wouldn’t it stop people from ever doing any other method to get a backpiece if they can just buy one with gold? Would it be gated for 1 equip per char/account? Would you have to reset the xp if you want another backpiece?

That’s a good point and I now realize the game simply can’t be changed at this point. Too much work and it’s best not to bother. Thanks.

musu.9205:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4wcg24/unbound_magic_is_a_seasonwide_currency/

just read this

the boring farm which forced player into single map or limited play time is unfun and the main problem people complaint about hot being grindy .

just i thought anet said they will make content less grindy .another failed promise?

if you wanna keep players play new maps , better just make map event reward players special tokens for vendor access along with interesting reward like skin ,rare drop etc . so players can earn currencies from other map but they need to actually do something in certain map for that . this way , more freedom and less grind .

i dont mind farm hot maps or new bloodstone map but farming a single map for hours for a single skin/equipment is insane .
and lets be honest , the new map events get boring fast

also adding new currencies too often will make those stuff meaningless lore wise since it will feel more like just another new name new icon to farm .look at black soul .one single currency and meaningful for lore .

Its a season wide currency, why on earth do you presume that it will only be obtainable in one map? If it can be used in every map used in LWS3 then it will be obtainable in every map used in LWS3. Don’t bring up non existent problems if you want to complain.

No one is forcing that person to farm for hours daily, they can get the daily’s done and call it a day. If they items costs gold, guess what, they would be farming for gold for hours.

yes lets mention black soul…. a game 95% of the people in this thread havent heard of including myself. When i searched it, one of the first things that popped up was Black Soul 2014’s worst MMO………..

OriOri.8724:

musu.9205:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4wcg24/unbound_magic_is_a_seasonwide_currency/

just read this

the boring farm which forced player into single map or limited play time is unfun and the main problem people complaint about hot being grindy .

just i thought anet said they will make content less grindy .another failed promise?

if you wanna keep players play new maps , better just make map event reward players special tokens for vendor access along with interesting reward like skin ,rare drop etc . so players can earn currencies from other map but they need to actually do something in certain map for that . this way , more freedom and less grind .

i dont mind farm hot maps or new bloodstone map but farming a single map for hours for a single skin/equipment is insane .
and lets be honest , the new map events get boring fast

also adding new currencies too often will make those stuff meaningless lore wise since it will feel more like just another new name new icon to farm .look at black soul .one single currency and meaningful for lore .

Its a season wide currency, why on earth do you presume that it will only be obtainable in one map? If it can be used in every map used in LWS3 then it will be obtainable in every map used in LWS3. Don’t bring up non existent problems if you want to complain.

They probably think it’ll be obtainable in one map based on recent history.

Dry Top- New Currency One Map
Silverwastes- New Currency One Map
Verdant Brink- New Currency One Map
Auric Basin-New Currency One Map
Tangled Depths- New Currency One map
Dragon’s Stand- New Currency One map
Bloodstone Fen – 2 Currency, Map remains to be seen

I don’t have a problem with the currency. I’m more annoyed with the ore that is salvageable/currency that takes up inventory space. It’s like they said: “People are tired of these keys and things taking up inventory space. So we’ll give them a salvageable currency instead.” The inventory clutter doesn’t seem to be an issue they think about.

Spoiler alert This map is bigger than you think. There is more to the map. I was flying to an armor event a few days ago and ended up landing on a little area that looked like opened up into a future area of the map. It goes down REALLY deep. Could even see a few NPC's that were already staged in some areas for future release. At some point it allowed me to fall off the edge and fly super far below the normal map area and you can see the next sections of the map.

Redfeather.6401:

It is something that started happening in the original guild wars sometime around Eye of the North. 250 Superb Charr carvings for a mask is just one example. The franchise has been relying on it way too much.

It just feels like the only game design idea for retaining players is farming currency. Are the possibilities of game design really that limited?

If it’s not currency, then it’s faction/reputation.

Otherwise, you get currency that looks like GW2’s Karma. Overall, karma is worthless, but if they let karma be worth something, we’d have to spend it 200,000 at a time just to make a dent in our huge stores of it.

It’d be even worse if it were a gold currency. Market barons and dungeon runners would get all the good loot without dipping into actual content, and those who run the content while getting meager gold rewards would be stuck paying the costs of content set out just to fight inflation. Those with little money at all might have to resort to buying gold or leaving content areas to farm money more efficiently.

Point is, without some kind of clean slate, there is a huge imbalance between who gets rewards and who does not.

Honestly, I see some potential in the use of currencies as a way to enhance our “play as you want” ideal. It would require the addition of a currency market as a way to trade between those otherwise closed markets. Short version of the idea, think of the gem/gold trading market, but for in-game currencies, possibly trade-limited to avoid huge fluctuations (similar to the Ley Energy Converter and its once per day purchase).
Hmm, definitely a line of thought worth investigating..

Currencies (overall, but the most basic) are fine, problems are tons of stupid keys or items that fill your inventory and you can’t keep them in bank because additional tabs are … costing gems.

Trading currencies is stupid idea for me. It would attracts bots, no life players farming it for money, and simply decrease overall fun from gaining it on your own. The less gold you have to gain in this game the better. Why to complicate things when you could use/revive fractals and dungeons? What do you think would happen with more items for sale? Players would farm it, decrease the price and the fun is over. No gold from it. For me the best idea for currencies like tokens is this way : dungeon>tokens>rare items>rare ingredients. For HoT strange currencies I don’t know as I wasn’t much into it. Don’t forget players who don’t own HoT.

I agree with idea to stop putting new currencies, it doesn’t make sense. You don’t fix economy with putting more currencies, you rebalance the economy. Can’t there be maps like on HoT maps, but with currencies already in game? I mean that I don’t really want to farm some “innovative” currencies from HoT but I would like to go to pvp and wvwvw to spend it on items from HoT maps. It would make more sense IMO, because it takes less work to get it done, makes less mess for new players. I’m still curious when someone will come up with the idea of … key rings or something. (you know, so you can keep the keys together somewhere). Those are small things but IMO would be really appreciated by players …

And btw: this is seriously not serious when with new map you’re pushed to either remove your currencies or buy bank tabs. That’s one of those things people might hate, as they want just to play and not to “go crazy” with their inventory each time they enter a map Not everyone has unlocked all slots for bags (like me) and has the biggest bags. Why those are pushed for it?

Pro tip: even if there wasn’t a new currency, you would have to farm something to get the loot..

You have to farm new currencies for loot as well. In this system everything is obtainable with a lot of farm.

You can go and collect rocks, so you can sell rocks collection.
You can go collect butterflies and sell the butterflies collection.

Same thing here. You can go for dungeons to farm tokens – it isn’t profitable.

You know, the difference is that rocks and butterflies are everywhere. And some tokens/currencies are only avaible on some maps.

Matijo.4382:

You don’t fix economy with putting more currencies, you rebalance the economy.

Of everything written above, this stands out, because it begs a single question.

How?

I’m curious for an answer that doesn’t involve creating a new faction, currency, or material farm. Because if it’s rooted purely in gold, that point was countered earlier in the thread.

So, how does one rebalance an economy?

Well I would just manipulate prices …
That’s what Arena has done so far. There was a simple scheme (ofc people with no life abused it) dungeons->tokens->rare items->glob of ectoplasm->gold.

Price wouldnt change too much as rare items were about cost of 20s. It was profitable to get tokens, salvage and sell it (and fast for most players)

Before that : People short after beta realised that karma farm is somehow good. You got karma spend it on chests or something and got gold, simple.

After dungeon farm (well I quit the game for some time due to meta once again(yeah i was playing condi then, when no one used it, now it is opposite)
After this farm there was a tricky bag farm: easy, you used it on some birds on islands and farmed it, as players were opening it or using for something.

Dungeons : nerfed
Bags : nerfed

Meanwhile : people used to farm black lion keys. What happened? Arena made story line avaible per 5 lvls.
Meanwhile: some people used bots for resource farm(some just kept to gather them on their own …)

Shortly after beta : there was a magic find. I used to make some money (not lot of as it ofc got nerfed …) ON elementals. I got lodestones, sold it – > money.
The new magic find system is cool and I like it but you know what? Right after beta people from guild hated on me because I said that DPS meta sucks and magic gear sucks. What happened? After 3 kitten years arena did what I was talking about. 3 YEARS…

So now : no elemental farm, no dungeon farm, no bag farm, wvwvw feels dead.
After that : with living story people farmed events … looks like it is now “cool”.
So from that moment every new map had event everywhere so people can make a train and go for it. Well I just don’t have fun with things like this but k …

I really liked dungeons with re-balanced gold rewards like : per day 1g for every path etc. It was simple, it was cool and fast. Some like dungeons, some like events. And now it is “banned”.

Arena tries (IMO) decrease gold problems with item shop, k it’s fine but what when I don’t have gold?. Some players will always farm and farm and waste their life and farm.
I can dream about additional bag slots as it would ruin my budget in this game.

Those currencies are probably for that, so gold won’t go low value too fast. Tbh this perhaps could be prevented by not spamming those events or making a limit. On silverwastes(?) there was an even chain with rare items etc. I would say that every “unlimited” source of money is bad. Fractals were another thing because : there were items people sold so the price would go down and it did, still it has dropped but it is kinda stable if other items use the items people sell, and have a chance for a greater profit or waste of gold. Imo it is the best, same happened to dungeons and rare items. They stopped at some point because u could get 2 ectoplasmas, or 3 or 4 etc. Just some luck. And there are plenty items using it, so it is practical.

Those are my ideas, just to allow people to get gold via items, which price can be handled by item post but wouldn’t go too low as it would be useful for other items, that could drop items of even great value or less value. With more players, there is a need for crafting materials, same happened to ascended stuff. Prices went crazy.

And to drain gold I would just use itemshop like arena does, it is one of the ways …
Some items are nice and you would like to buy them ;p Same to character slots with HoT … Arena didn’t give those to “normal” players, they had to buy it …

But still I don’t feel very happy about this that some heavy farm players make money on events when I can’t go somewhere else. Maybe gathering is a choice, but this is a bit of a mess for me. Prices jump, drop. Orichalcum used to be pricey, last time it wasn’t. Feels more like a stuff to do with map exploration than for gold purposes.

You could make a system like this:
Karma farm → money, dungeon farm → money. Drain → itemshop.
Or like this:
Restricted farm with limits → less money. Items obtainable from achievements,boss fights (something like dungeons) and itemshop to drain even more.

Dunno. Tbh I just like simple ways more than following some people in a 30 players party on events.