Guild Wars 2

BobbyStein.2315:

Nebilim.5127:

BobbyStein.2315:

Khisanth.2948:

BobbyStein.2315:

• I can’t talk about the “huge awesome mega reveals” other than to say that since the wings are essentially a multi-part story you will learn things along the way. Anything vital to the raid story will happen naturally and unobtrusively, but we’ll also have some optional stuff scattered around to discover. You’ll see elements of this in the beta that are carried through the entire first wing.

Does that mean we won’t be forced to sit around twiddling our thumbs waiting for some NPCs to talk on every run through the raid?

This is something we’re very mindful of, so we’ve been working hard to find better ways of dispensing essential plot information and gameplay feedback without grinding things to a halt. You can get a feel for how we’re doing that in the raid beta that starts today. That stated, there is some optional stuff we’ve put in the raid so if you’re waiting around for your squad to get ready you can walk around, talk to NPCs (in the safe areas), and potentially find some cool things we’ve stashed in there.

We realize that there are a lot of players who want to get right into the action, so we’re doing what we can to allow for that. Play the beta and let us know what you think!

Can’t you do it like dungeons or fractals? Most of the stories were delivered completely in a non obtrusive way. Just add cutscenes whenever necessary and let us press a skip button.

We could except for the fact that we don’t build our cinematics like that anymore. We’ve instead opted for a more “in the moment” approach. Play the raid. You’ll see what I mean.

I’d like to point out, making us watch certain cutscenes, unskippable ones that is, every time should not be a thing. I am honestly fed up with molten duo introduction in fractals by now. I get that at the time this wasn’t intended to be a repeatable fractal, but for future cutscenes I hope this doesn’t happen again.

BobbyStein.2315:

Yup! Which is why we’re taking a different approach in raids. Play the beta if you can. You’ll see what I mean.

As the raids have been taken offline and won’t be active this weekend anymore. (I pray there will be an unannounced extra BWE for Druid, Scrapper and Raids), is there a chance you could enlighten us about the new way of storytelling (in raids at least) ?

Laggo.8973:

What’s wrong with individual skill being a barrier to not even 1% of the content available in the game?

Is the other 99% being free-for-all and easy to see not good enough?

I’m sure eventually people will sell raid slots as well, or is buying a slot to see the content not good enough either?

People “throw around the word entitled” because that’s what is happening here. Because you play the game, you think all the story content in the game that you want to see should be available to you. Even if the only barrier to seeing the content is literally yourself and your own play (or wallet), you think the content needs to be brought down to your current level because it’s not fair to you.

Doesn’t matter that you will be able to youtube the entire encounter whenever you want. That doesn’t count because your character wasn’t physically there.

Doesn’t mean that you can simply learn to do the content yourself. That doesn’t count because then you have to play the game.

That’s the definition of entitlement.

Making a story mode version is not FREE. This is the part that you are glossing over. It costs development time, it introduces new hurdles with reward structure, and it dilutes the point of raids – which are supposed to be content for endgame players.

You simply aren’t presenting a benefit that is worth the cost that comes with it. The only argument you are presenting right now is “I don’t want to use YouTube” and frankly, I don’t agree with that being worth all the associated headache. Feel free to clarify this benefit if you want. I just don’t see it.

As it should, at least Rift offers Chronicles, and Instant Adventure versions of raids for the filthy unwashed masses that you apparently sneer at. They also happen to have a much smaller budget as well.

If the raids are supposed to be Living Story Season 3 and move the story forward like Season 2 does, it would be a bummer to put that behind a immense skill cap. After all, some people play the game for the story, and may not even have the physical ability for the split-second reflexes needed for raids.
One way to solve this problem is to enable, a set time after the raid is launched (maybe after world-first?) something akin to SAB’s infantile mode – mobs have much less HP, there are no enrage timers, but the only reward is the story. This way, people won’t feel left out of the story, which for me is a very important part of enjoying the game.

BobbyStein.2315:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

BobbyStein.2315:

Nebilim.5127:

BobbyStein.2315:

Khisanth.2948:

BobbyStein.2315:

• I can’t talk about the “huge awesome mega reveals” other than to say that since the wings are essentially a multi-part story you will learn things along the way. Anything vital to the raid story will happen naturally and unobtrusively, but we’ll also have some optional stuff scattered around to discover. You’ll see elements of this in the beta that are carried through the entire first wing.

Does that mean we won’t be forced to sit around twiddling our thumbs waiting for some NPCs to talk on every run through the raid?

This is something we’re very mindful of, so we’ve been working hard to find better ways of dispensing essential plot information and gameplay feedback without grinding things to a halt. You can get a feel for how we’re doing that in the raid beta that starts today. That stated, there is some optional stuff we’ve put in the raid so if you’re waiting around for your squad to get ready you can walk around, talk to NPCs (in the safe areas), and potentially find some cool things we’ve stashed in there.

We realize that there are a lot of players who want to get right into the action, so we’re doing what we can to allow for that. Play the beta and let us know what you think!

Can’t you do it like dungeons or fractals? Most of the stories were delivered completely in a non obtrusive way. Just add cutscenes whenever necessary and let us press a skip button.

We could except for the fact that we don’t build our cinematics like that anymore. We’ve instead opted for a more “in the moment” approach. Play the raid. You’ll see what I mean.

I’d like to point out, making us watch certain cutscenes, unskippable ones that is, every time should not be a thing. I am honestly fed up with molten duo introduction in fractals by now. I get that at the time this wasn’t intended to be a repeatable fractal, but for future cutscenes I hope this doesn’t happen again.

Yup! Which is why we’re taking a different approach in raids. Play the beta if you can. You’ll see what I mean.

I’ll take that as a yipee!

Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

BobbyStein.2315:

WoodenPotatoes discussed some of the things I was alluding to in his latest video.

https://youtu.be/teqDb_IM8BU?t=4m26s

Around the 5:25 mark he relays a story of his friend’s experience inside the raid in terms of how players speak, etc.

Thanks, love the way it’s done!

DDCarvalho.2071:

If the raids are supposed to be Living Story Season 3 and move the story forward like Season 2 does, it would be a bummer to put that behind a immense skill cap. After all, some people play the game for the story, and may not even have the physical ability for the split-second reflexes needed for raids.
One way to solve this problem is to enable, a set time after the raid is launched (maybe after world-first?) something akin to SAB’s infantile mode – mobs have much less HP, there are no enrage timers, but the only reward is the story. This way, people won’t feel left out of the story, which for me is a very important part of enjoying the game.

I’m going to play devils advocate and state unequivocally that I would be fine with some bridge story between the end of HoT and the next big threat being included in the raids as minor stories(I believe that is the point of some of based on the TwitchCon broadcast) as it’s not integral but provides a deeper understanding of the coming threat, what ever that may be…of course this is just opinion and not based on fact(nor do I expect do being doing the raids, though that has yet to be determined, at least one of my guilds won’t be, not sure about the other). Anyways, it’s ArenaNet’s take on a raiding with a story…whether everyone has to be able to access it or not is irrelevant, everyone can access it, it just requires a little dedication, trial and error, and eventually there’ll be guides that will literally walk you through it.

BobbyStein.2315:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I think the main concern regarding this is the level of importance of the story.

It’ll be interesting to read people’s feedback as each wing is released, and their reactions to what comes after.

I think that most of us are looking forward to giving that feedback, myself included, however I’m also curious about the question that doesn’t seem to have been answered unless there’s another thread that I’ve missed. Is this storyline presented through the raids only going to be accessible through the raids, and if its such an important reveal that it bridges the gap between HOT and ‘the next big threat’, what was the decision behind gating it through raids?

I understand that its new content and you want to get people pumped and excited for it, which I certainly am, and I’m sure that even if its just a ‘reveal’ leading up to the next big thing that we’ll see possibly in LS3 or the open world eventually, it’d still be cool to be able to go through and see the reveal firsthand. Me personally, I’m a raider, and planning on raiding, however there are those that for whatever reasons being their own, don’t enjoy it and may not ever. With something so seemingly integral and ‘cool’ to the ongoing story of GW2 are they to only be able to watch the story through youtube replays from other people afterwards?

It just seems like a curious design decision, where one would think as story driven as guild wars 2 has attempted to be, that reveals such as this would come through LS or through the open world in general (accessible by all) and then the raids would supplement that by going and possibly fighting some of the big bads, rather then being the wall barring the way to the rest of the story.

Hi guys,
Few days ago I was trying to explain my girlfriend that she won’t be able to do raids, not just because of ascended gear requirements, but especially for the fact that raids allow absolute zero mistakes and that players have to know how to maximize their damage, DoT, cc, and healing output, which she is unable to do because she just lacks such skills, as they are honed by playing games for years.
Her response was very true though: “It’s stupid that I have HoT and I can’t run raids. Especially when they are story-driven.”
This is very true and thus, I’m suggesting to create easy mode with minor rewards just to experience the story and see the beautiful raid zones.
I think it would be very good solution to current uproar about creating elitist and gated content which is not really what this game was supposed to be about.
True raiders will still have their titles and legendary armors so they would still stand out among others who would experience just the fun from seeing the story behind.

It is not story driven, it only has some story.
Wait for the skilled players do it and watch the videos, I guarantee that in the 1st month you’ll be able to watch a full run and also there will be a full video from WoodenPotatoes explaining and analyzing all the lore in the raids
Let the game have 1 “hardcore” content, there is nothing wrong with that.

if the story is the only important thing in there, you can watch a youtube video that will sooner or later be uploaded by some dude beating the content. But why pay for the expansion then (ignoring the fact that it is not limited to the raid)? That is indeed a good question. If someone is only in the game for the story, it makes no sense to buy or play a game at all, these days you can watch everything on youtube and streams. Actually, if it is only about the story, you can even read it on wikis and sites like Dulfy.

Is this an absurd proposition? OF CAUSE. And why? Because I do not believe your GF or any player is in it only for the story. So this can hardly be an argument for toning down all game difficulty to the bottom level of player skill.

So we’re asking players to go on youtube instead? Sounds like good game design.

The OP is not asking to make raids easier for everyone. He’s just asking for there to be a selectable difficulty level. The uber-elite-dps-godz™ can still have their youtube glory and claim the bragging rights on the hardest setting and can earn the best loot.

No-one is saying it should be a cakewalk with big rewards but I don’t see any harm in there being an easier version of the same thing, with suitably scaled down mobs and loot.

An MMOs real strength is to be as inclusive as possible. If only the best of the best can beat the raids, then the majority of players will not get to experience that part of the game, which would be a shame imo. I actually thing that all dungeons should have two difficulty levels. Inclusive is important.

I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with any of the points made in the original post.

Telling your girlfriend that she will not be able to raid is not necessary, as everyone will have the option to form groups and have a go at the content.

Her response about having HoT and not being able to do raids was not true, because the things that you told her about them were false.

There will be groups which are less strict, that will focus on enjoying the raid, learning together how to do the mechanics etc. which I’m sure you will both be able to join and have fun doing together, regardless of the time that it takes to complete.

The lack of “skills honed over years” won’t mean much in the case of a person who has a desire to learn and succeed. Telling someone they have no chance will not encourage them into that kind of behaviour.

If you let your girlfriend think she has no possibility of success, then she will likely not make any attempt and for that will not have the opportunity to grow as a gamer or as a person.

Sorry that I have made this response more about the way that you have treated your partner, but as you have made it the focus of your post, I thought necessary to centre my feedback around it as well.

On the subject of “elitist” and “gated” content, I have to say, call it what you want, but in the end all it is is content that takes more effort to complete. Anyone can access it. Anyone can form a group and start practicing fights, learning strategies, working with their team/friends to figure things out and making raid progress together. All of those things can be enjoyable and rewarding in themselves, and those are what some people really want from a game, a degree of challenge with rewarding outcomes which takes some effort to complete and cannot be breezed through thoughtlessly.

I think what I mean to say is that the actual content of the raids will be the more rewarding aspect, not the loot. Making an easy mode or raid finder type scene will deminish the purpose of this content, which is not story, it is about the other things I mentioned earlier in my response.

Belzebu.3912:

Let the game have 1 “hardcore” content, there is nothing wrong with that.

You misunderstood the suggestion. The OP isn’t asking for the hardcore content to be removed.

Algreg.3629:

if the story is the only important thing in there, you can watch a youtube video that will sooner or later be uploaded by some dude beating the content.

True, there is more here than just knowing the story. There probably is experiencing it firs thand. As a roleplayer who invests in my character, I like to have my character be the one performing the actions. There is also just the fun of beating an epic fight, even if it is a less difficult fight. I do want the challenging content there, and put myself up tot he challenge, but should I fail in getting my guild into the raids or fail myself, I’d still like to be able to experience it.

Sicarius.4639:

So we’re asking players to go on youtube instead? Sounds like good game design.

try rereading. I have faith in you!

And I’m sorry, DoctorDing, but raids in this form are inclusive, in that anyone who wants to be included in trying to overcome this particular, more challenging content can and is welcome to participate! Why must everything be made possible to be done without any degree of effort or consideration being applied?

White Devil.3176:

Making an easy mode or raid finder type scene will deminish the purpose of this content, which is not story, it is about the other things I mentioned earlier in my response.

Since there is rarely one purpose for a piece of content, you shouldn’t be surprised to learn that the raids are also there to present a story with “Huge awesome mega reveal[s]”. ¹ It is also going to bridge the gap between HoT and the next major threat. This was covered in the other thread (still on page 2), so this discussion should probably be moved there.

¹ – Dulfy’s Raid live stream notes

People cracked it in five hours. This IS the easy mode.

‘Fangs snapping at your tingly bits’ mode will come 6-8 month later when this is all a tragic farm.

White Devil, I wrote you a long response, but thanks to moderator who moved my topic, it is gone. Thank you dear moderator.

In short, I don’t agree with you because not everyone has the luxury of time to do this content for months, or the patience. I just ask to experience raids first hand with a moderate difficulty. No special rewards, greens are ok. Watching it on youtube is a very ignorant suggestion… No thanks.
And the story in it really IS major, as was explained by a player above.