Guild Wars 2

So… after failing the meta event today I got really salt because the main cause of the failure on the map I was allocated into by the megaserver is that we had a ton of commanders from one other IP still advertising on LFG so people naturally tried to get into that instead of trying to hop into the newer and emptier map that could’ve succeeded. There were more than 10 people per squad in the other map trying to get in there instead of trying to get into the IP I put my tag up advertising in hope to pull people in ~12 minutes before the event start, so…

Since we cannot fight the system and ANet apparently won’t do anything about it, if you’re commanding on a full map, please remove your squad from LFG so other maps can have a freaking chance.

I find it kind of hard to sympathize with you. You want to get 10 mins before meta and organize it? Good luck. The map is supposed to be played on a 2h cycle. Go in a fresh map after reset, tag up and open LFG. By the time meta comes you’ll have enough people for the meta and they won’t leave, I guarantee it. Because it’s what I do and it works every time.

Feanor.2358:

I find it kind of hard to sympathize with you. You want to get 10 mins before meta and organize it? Good luck. The map is supposed to be played on a 2h cycle. Go in a fresh map after reset, tag up and open LFG. By the time meta comes you’ll have enough people for the meta and they won’t leave, I guarantee it. Because it’s what I do and it works every time.

No. I got there 20 minutes before, tagged after trying to join the other map for a while. And no, I’m not willing to treat this map like a DS where you have to spend a whole hour doing crappy events with crappy rewards to matbe get something nice at the end. The reward structure os kitten and there is no point in doing the outposts if you’re not going for the Provisioner Tokens.

Even worse if you’re suggesting idling around for a whole hour before,

I’m just asking for people who are in a map that cannot fill any longer to just gte out from LFG so other maps can have a shot at getting enough people.

No, I’m not suggesting idling. I go there specifically to do the outposts and events all the way to the meta. I usually need to clear my inventory at least twice. It’s feline tons of loot and while there are some annoying events I generally enjoy playing there. By the way, I also enjoy DS. So maybe these maps just aren’t for you?

Doing the meta is part of the zone. Doing the events leading up to the meta is the zone. People who want to rock up early and just get the big rewards might get left out. That’s how the system works.

If you want to get into a good map, you don’t have to and shouldn’t stand around and wait. Do the events leading up to the meta. It’s not like the currency is going to be wasted. Or the loot.

Edit: That said, commanders should remove their squad from LFG once the map fills.

I agree with all that has been mentioned above by the others. But I get how annoying it is when comms don’t remove their groups once the maps full, obviously sometimes they might not know, but if they’ve been told by someone it’s full and they still don’t remove it then that’s wrong imo.

Maybe when a map is full there should be some trigger that automatically closes all groups listed in LFG for that instance of the map. Or perhaps something that automatically notifies the comm via a broadcast message that it’s full. Or even something that just marks the group on LFG with a “map full” icon so people can see at a glance that they are unlikely to get in.

Of course I don’t know how complicated those are, or how much work would be involved to implement any of those, but I think something like any of those could help with things.

killermanjaro.5670:

I agree with all that has been mentioned above by the others. But I get how annoying it is when comms don’t remove their groups once the maps full, obviously sometimes they might not know, but if they’ve been told by someone it’s full and they still don’t remove it then that’s wrong imo.

Maybe when a map is full there should be some trigger that automatically closes all groups listed in LFG for that instance of the map. Or perhaps something that automatically notifies the comm via a broadcast message that it’s full. Or even something that just marks the group on LFG with a “map full” icon so people can see at a glance that they are unlikely to get in.

Of course I don’t know how complicated those are, or how much work would be involved to implement any of those, but I think something like any of those could help with things.

I usually end the LFG when somebody says it’s full. However, sometimes you can miss the message due to being occupied with an event, organizing, or explaining the mechanics to newcomers (that are still found occasionally). All I’m saying is: just keep in mind commanders are also human and they will be caring first and foremost for their immediate tasks rather than the QoL of players on another map instances.

Feanor.2358:

killermanjaro.5670:

I agree with all that has been mentioned above by the others. But I get how annoying it is when comms don’t remove their groups once the maps full, obviously sometimes they might not know, but if they’ve been told by someone it’s full and they still don’t remove it then that’s wrong imo.

Maybe when a map is full there should be some trigger that automatically closes all groups listed in LFG for that instance of the map. Or perhaps something that automatically notifies the comm via a broadcast message that it’s full. Or even something that just marks the group on LFG with a “map full” icon so people can see at a glance that they are unlikely to get in.

Of course I don’t know how complicated those are, or how much work would be involved to implement any of those, but I think something like any of those could help with things.

I usually end the LFG when somebody says it’s full. However, sometimes you can miss the message due to being occupied with an event, organizing, or explaining the mechanics to newcomers (that are still found occasionally). All I’m saying is: just keep in mind commanders are also human and they will be caring first and foremost for their immediate tasks rather than the QoL of players on another map instances.

Oh don’t get me wrong, I know most comms are good and do remove when they realise it’s full, and messages will get missed from time to time so they won’t always know. But there are some out there who seem to leave groups on there even after acknowledging it’s full, thankfully it’s only a minority that do this though (at least in my exp).

All I’m saying is some sort of fail safe wouldn’t hurt , in that even if when a maps full the game just automatically put an icon on the group in LFG to indicate that then at least players can see at a glance which groups are full. So if for example you looked during AB meta and there’s 10 groups listed you could see at a glance which not to bother with.

Vayne.8563:

That said, commanders should remove their squad from LFG once the map fills.

That would certainly be courteous and make sense.

If you dont have a commander tag how do you end your squad in the lfg?

Or, in your own LFG, indicate that the other IP is full.

Linken.6345:

If you dont have a commander tag how do you end your squad in the lfg?

You can open a squad for LFG regardless if you have a tag or not.

The other problem with the HoT metas is commanders asking non-participants to leave the map. Yes, I should stop what I’m doing in the middle of an event and go to a different map where the event might not even be happening at this time or will stop in the middle because I have to start over again so won’t be finished before the meta starts.

The HoT metas were a terrible idea.

Djinn.9245:

The other problem with the HoT metas is commanders asking non-participants to leave the map. Yes, I should stop what I’m doing in the middle of an event and go to a different map where the event might not even be happening at this time or will stop in the middle because I have to start over again so won’t be finished before the meta starts.

The HoT metas were a terrible idea.

Why do you have to do as they ask if you prefer to finish what you are doing?

Djinn.9245:

The other problem with the HoT metas is commanders asking non-participants to leave the map. Yes, I should stop what I’m doing in the middle of an event and go to a different map where the event might not even be happening at this time or will stop in the middle because I have to start over again so won’t be finished before the meta starts.

The HoT metas were a terrible idea.

When the meta starts it causes all current events to fail. That is the case for VB turning to night/day. AB when the challenges start up and TD when the first timer starts counting. If you are in the middle of doing a HP then it continues but there is no problem with finishing an HP first and if you can’t finish in 5minutes then you run into the HP’s time limit anyway.

Leaving the map when the transition occurs leaves more than enough time for people to taxi in. That is also a reason for leaving the LFG up …

Feanor.2358:

Linken.6345:

If you dont have a commander tag how do you end your squad in the lfg?

You can open a squad for LFG regardless if you have a tag or not.

Yes I know but my question was how do I then take it away, when full from the lfg?

Djinn.9245:

The other problem with the HoT metas is commanders asking non-participants to leave the map. Yes, I should stop what I’m doing in the middle of an event and go to a different map where the event might not even be happening at this time or will stop in the middle because I have to start over again so won’t be finished before the meta starts.

The HoT metas were a terrible idea.

There are a lot of people that play just for HoT metas. It may be a terrible idea for you but they’re popular and populated and people seem to like them.

Far more people do HOT metas than a lead up event to a HoT meta, even though I love doing those events as well.

However, most events, and all the significant ones don’t run when the meta is happening anyway.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

The other problem with the HoT metas is commanders asking non-participants to leave the map. Yes, I should stop what I’m doing in the middle of an event and go to a different map where the event might not even be happening at this time or will stop in the middle because I have to start over again so won’t be finished before the meta starts.

The HoT metas were a terrible idea.

Why do you have to do as they ask if you prefer to finish what you are doing?

Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with social pressure of numerous people all wanting you to do the same thing? I don’t necessarily bow to such pressure but I’ve been told I am unusually “stubborn”.

Khisanth.2948:

Djinn.9245:

The other problem with the HoT metas is commanders asking non-participants to leave the map. Yes, I should stop what I’m doing in the middle of an event and go to a different map where the event might not even be happening at this time or will stop in the middle because I have to start over again so won’t be finished before the meta starts.

The HoT metas were a terrible idea.

When the meta starts it causes all current events to fail. That is the case for VB turning to night/day. AB when the challenges start up and TD when the first timer starts counting. If you are in the middle of doing a HP then it continues but there is no problem with finishing an HP first and if you can’t finish in 5minutes then you run into the HP’s time limit anyway.

Yes, that is what I was referring to. Commanders often start asking people to leave the map far before the meta starts.

Well asking is fine too as long as they aren’t being stupid about it. Presumably not everyone is in the middle of an event.

Djinn.9245:

Yes, that is what I was referring to. Commanders often start asking people to leave the map far before the meta starts.

Well, you might want to consider their point of view. I’m trying to organize the meta for dozens players. If there are enough “stubborn” people who don’t give a kitten it will simply fail. Effectively these people will waste the time of dozens others. It strikes me as an extremely selfish thing to do, so yeah, during meta I always urge people to participate. I haven’t asked anyone to leave the map yet, but I don’t hesitate to scold people who are asking for help with HPs for instance.

Linken.6345:

Feanor.2358:

Linken.6345:

If you dont have a commander tag how do you end your squad in the lfg?

You can open a squad for LFG regardless if you have a tag or not.

Yes I know but my question was how do I then take it away, when full from the lfg?

Huh, I misunderstood… I don’t know that. You might need someone to tag for it, or there might be something in the LFG UI.

Djinn.9245:

Yes, that is what I was referring to. Commanders often start asking people to leave the map far before the meta starts.

I noticed the same thing, it’s kinda weird and funny. When I’m doing the Q&A achievement in Rata Novus that takes some time, or even if I just want to roam, honestly, I don’t care that people do the meta at the same time. I’m not interfering directly, and that my mere presence on the map keeps one other player from joining it for the meta is not my business.

I get that people want a map where most people do the meta, but asking people to leave is still not ok. You guys can leave coordinated, all at the same time, and a brand new map will open up for you, without plebs like me who just want to do some quests. That’s how gw2community does it when they need a clean map for Triple Trouble.

Faaris.8013:

Djinn.9245:

Yes, that is what I was referring to. Commanders often start asking people to leave the map far before the meta starts.

I noticed the same thing, it’s kinda weird and funny. When I’m doing the Q&A achievement in Rata Novus that takes some time, or even if I just want to roam, honestly, I don’t care that people do the meta at the same time. I’m not interfering directly, and that my mere presence on the map keeps one other player from joining it for the meta is not my business.

I get that people want a map where most people do the meta, but asking people to leave is still not ok. You guys can leave coordinated, all at the same time, and a brand new map will open up for you, without plebs like me who just want to do some quests. That’s how gw2community does it when they need a clean map for Triple Trouble.

And since a commander can’t force anyone to do anything at all, one would think the idea is to ask people to finish up their events since the meta is coming and move to another map. They don’t lose participation this way. The events on any other map at that time are likely to be roughly the same and end at pretty much the same time, so there’s very very little reason I can think of not to finish up an event and change servers.

However, people can say unreasonable things in map chat at any time for any reason and nothing changes. People may or may not remember that the same thing used to happen when Tequatl was new.

I’ve been all over HoT, it’s pretty much the game I’m playing now, and I seldom see commanders asking for people to leave anyway. I have seen it happen, but very very rarely and even then, not in a way that I would have considered offensive.

Commanders who single people out , or who act abusive are breaking the TOS and should be reported. Commander who ask people to please find another map aren’t necessarily out of line for asking. And people who are doing nothing more than just events, unless they’re with an existing HP group, have no real reason to stay on a specific map anyway.

This is nothing more than a storm in a teacup.

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

The other problem with the HoT metas is commanders asking non-participants to leave the map. Yes, I should stop what I’m doing in the middle of an event and go to a different map where the event might not even be happening at this time or will stop in the middle because I have to start over again so won’t be finished before the meta starts.

The HoT metas were a terrible idea.

Why do you have to do as they ask if you prefer to finish what you are doing?

Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with social pressure of numerous people all wanting you to do the same thing? I don’t necessarily bow to such pressure but I’ve been told I am unusually “stubborn”.

No, I understand social pressure. However, unless people’s avatars are actually near where yours is, how would they even know you are on the map? I’ve never seen the type of pressure you seem to be talking about. Are they just asking in map chat?

Regardless, should I see such requests, my thinking would be: (1) while I often see taxi LFG’s to a meta map, I never see taxis to non-meta maps; 2), one doesn’t need a full zone’s population to beat a meta event; and (3), given (1) and (2), if I want to be in this zone, asking or telling me to leave the zone completely so the meta group can greatly outnumber the meta is neither fair nor reasonable. This opinion would change if ANet implemented a district drop down as they had in the original GW game, but GW2 does not allow me to travel to various map copies on demand except via LFG/Join In.

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

Yes, that is what I was referring to. Commanders often start asking people to leave the map far before the meta starts.

Well, you might want to consider their point of view. I’m trying to organize the meta for dozens players. If there are enough “stubborn” people who don’t give a kitten it will simply fail.

I do care. I care that I was in the map before most of those other people taxi’d in and I am in the middle of an event chain.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

The other problem with the HoT metas is commanders asking non-participants to leave the map. Yes, I should stop what I’m doing in the middle of an event and go to a different map where the event might not even be happening at this time or will stop in the middle because I have to start over again so won’t be finished before the meta starts.

The HoT metas were a terrible idea.

Why do you have to do as they ask if you prefer to finish what you are doing?

Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with social pressure of numerous people all wanting you to do the same thing? I don’t necessarily bow to such pressure but I’ve been told I am unusually “stubborn”.

No, I understand social pressure. However, unless people’s avatars are actually near where yours is, how would they even know you are on the map? I’ve never seen the type of pressure you seem to be talking about. Are they just asking in map chat?

Regardless, should I see such requests, my thinking would be: (1) while I often see taxi LFG’s to a meta map, I never see taxis to non-meta maps; 2), one doesn’t need a full zone’s population to beat a meta event; and (3), given (1) and (2), if I want to be in this zone, asking or telling me to leave the zone completely so the meta group can greatly outnumber the meta is neither fair nor reasonable. This opinion would change if ANet implemented a district drop down as they had in the original GW game, but GW2 does not allow me to travel to various map copies on demand except via LFG/Join In.

I don’t think you understand the issue

Some people want to join the meta map and simply can’t because people refuse to relog, so they miss out on the chance to do an event that only happens on a 2 hour cycle because of selfish minded/lazy people.

Valzacard.1028:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

The other problem with the HoT metas is commanders asking non-participants to leave the map. Yes, I should stop what I’m doing in the middle of an event and go to a different map where the event might not even be happening at this time or will stop in the middle because I have to start over again so won’t be finished before the meta starts.

The HoT metas were a terrible idea.

Why do you have to do as they ask if you prefer to finish what you are doing?

Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with social pressure of numerous people all wanting you to do the same thing? I don’t necessarily bow to such pressure but I’ve been told I am unusually “stubborn”.

No, I understand social pressure. However, unless people’s avatars are actually near where yours is, how would they even know you are on the map? I’ve never seen the type of pressure you seem to be talking about. Are they just asking in map chat?

Regardless, should I see such requests, my thinking would be: (1) while I often see taxi LFG’s to a meta map, I never see taxis to non-meta maps; 2), one doesn’t need a full zone’s population to beat a meta event; and (3), given (1) and (2), if I want to be in this zone, asking or telling me to leave the zone completely so the meta group can greatly outnumber the meta is neither fair nor reasonable. This opinion would change if ANet implemented a district drop down as they had in the original GW game, but GW2 does not allow me to travel to various map copies on demand except via LFG/Join In.

I don’t think you understand the issue

Some people want to join the meta map and simply can’t because people refuse to relog, so they miss out on the chance to do an event that only happens on a 2 hour cycle because of selfish minded/lazy people.

OK, I didn’t consider that leaving the game and returning would put one on a different shard. Thanks for that.

However, I admit I’m torn. The truth is that far fewer people are required to complete map metas than can be jammed into one shard via taxi. Yet, people don’t want to make the effort to make things work on the map they’re on. So there’s the potential for both lazy and ignorant on both sides of the issue. However, I also understand peoples’ reluctance to take that initiative. Frankly, I wish MMO’s were less slanted toward player convenience than they are. I found MMO’s to be more interesting and fun when players had to get creative to get things done.

Ah, well, I’ll be more mindful of leaving meta maps if I ever actually see that the map I’m on is taxi central and I don’t want to pitch in. Usually, though, the game shoves me into an emptying zone, so I’m less likely to be part of that problem.

Djinn.9245:

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

Yes, that is what I was referring to. Commanders often start asking people to leave the map far before the meta starts.

Well, you might want to consider their point of view. I’m trying to organize the meta for dozens players. If there are enough “stubborn” people who don’t give a kitten it will simply fail.

I do care. I care that I was in the map before most of those other people taxi’d in and I am in the middle of an event chain.

You’re taking the selfish stance. That’s fine. But don’t expect to get any sympathy from me.

I can’t say I’ve ever once encountered this thing where commanders (or anyone), has asked someone to leave a map, I’ve just never seen it happen once in chat at all. Even if someone asks for help with a HP during the meta the worst I’ve seen are simple “time for meta” or “lol not now” type messages (which is fair enough, blunt but not offensive to anyone).

The only map I’ve seen the occasional argument like this in has been a non HoT one, The Silverwastes, where I’ve seen the odd argument over weather it was a CF or meta map first.

Feanor.2358:

Djinn.9245:

I do care. I care that I was in the map before most of those other people taxi’d in and I am in the middle of an event chain.

You’re taking the selfish stance. That’s fine. But don’t expect to get any sympathy from me.

That’s a bit harsh, although Djinn probably doesn’t give a kitten if you have sympathy for him or not.

The assumption here is that the more people = the easier the meta. And that people who don’t participate in the meta take up space that is better used for participating people. With scaling, the former is not even the case. Often it’s more desirable to have few people at the spot, to not make the boss and champs harder (or cause champs to spawn in the first place). I haven’t done Chak Gerent very often, how many people do you need per lane, 10 to 12? Let’s say 40 people can do the meta. A map can hold 3 or 4 times as many. Triple Trouble needs more than 70 people to succeed, and there’s still room on the map for people who want nothing to do with it.

Is there something I’m missing here?

There’s a bare minimum if you want the meta done. Usually you want at least 15 per lane. 10 will probably get the job done if they know what to do. But you can’t rely on that. So when you’re trying to organize that, you really want as many players on the map to join it as possible.

Thank you to those who replied with insults for people who choose not to leave a map. That is exactly the toxicity that is the problem with the TD meta. Perfect examples.

Also, those trying to join the meta are doing it for themselves, not out of some altruism to help the greater good. Therefore if you want to call people who just want to be able to continue what they were doing before people started taxiing for the meta “selfish”, then those who want to kick them off the map so THEY can do what they want and join the meta are also “selfish”.

1. There is no problem with TD meta. If you’re having one, try looking at your own self.
2. Yes, I totally start the gerent organization just for myself. Nobody else gets any loot whatsoever.
3. Following the above, my actions are beneficial for me and 50 others. Yours are beneficial to you alone. Good luck trying to imply equality between the two. By the way, I’ve been asked to lead TD events by people who followed me in the past. Probably because I was so selfish doing it.

Having done the TD meta dozens of times, and having almost never seen this, this is still widely blown out of proportion. It’s not nearly as big a problem as the Queensdale champ train was, as far as causing drama.

This is simply a non-issue. It should never happen. But it has happened on rare occasion. It’s not as big a problem as many of the things we’ve seen in core Tyria, like the Queensdale Champ train, or events that have to fail to get collections, or even something like the ember farm in Cursed Shore when that existed. It’s nothing like the problems we’ve seen in Coiled Watch.

The problem is human nature, not HoT nor the TD meta. Basically if you have hundreds of thousands of people playing a game, you can’t guarantee they’re all going to be reasonable. Saying it’s the fault of the meta or the zone is simply not really understanding the problem.

You’re actually right. HoT metas in general mitigate the issue, to a degree. Champ trains in FGS and CS still suffer from special snowflakes who just don’t feel like waiting 50 people or joining them.

Djinn.9245:

Thank you to those who replied with insults for people who choose not to leave a map. That is exactly the toxicity that is the problem with the TD meta. Perfect examples.

Also, those trying to join the meta are doing it for themselves, not out of some altruism to help the greater good. Therefore if you want to call people who just want to be able to continue what they were doing before people started taxiing for the meta “selfish”, then those who want to kick them off the map so THEY can do what they want and join the meta are also “selfish”.

I love how you keep going on and going about how selfish 50+ people wants to join in on meta and pretend that people are insulting you.

Either way this thread clearly did not persuade you in doing anything but throwing more dung at people that have no choice in what map is picked for the meta, meanwhile you have the freedom to relog or go to another map to give people a chance at participating at an event that’s only set to run every 2 hours.

But we’re the selfish people yeah?

Valzacard.1028

I love how you keep going on and going about how selfish 50+ people wants to join in on meta and pretend that people are insulting you.

LOL !! What a perfect example of HoT “thinking” :-)))

You see, this was the point of this post, the OP asked this: “Since we cannot fight the system and ANet apparently won’t do anything about it, if you’re commanding on a full map, please remove your squad from LFG so other maps can have a freaking chance.”.

Exactly what the OP says – the +50 people on a map are deceived to believe that a “meta” map is more important because of the LFG messages existing even after the meta map is full. And instead of organizing themselves into a successful map they try and try to join a full map. Missing the chance to try to do the event in their own map. Why? Because some commanders prefers to deceive a lot of players hoping that maybe 1 or 2 will leave the meta map. INCREDIBLE!

And here are still defenders of the message left on LFG after the map is full.

Well, in my opinion this kind of message is a lie. And the commanders knowing that the map is full but keeping the LFG are a kind of trolls. They are fully aware that a lot of people will try to get in that map without success, and because of the message, other maps having the potential to complete the event will fail, but they still don’t cancel the message. And calling the players doing in that map other activity than the meta “selfish”.

Question for the Commanders: Why are you tagging up? Just to have a sign over the head?
Being aware of the status of the map or being able to decide if you should jump to another map (if you are a commander you should be able to have your squad to follow you) are commanders responsibility. You skip these.

It seems that by keeping the LFG you only organize the failure of other maps.